View Full Version : Historical pack weights ?
With all the recent discussion and fervor regarding pack weights and cutting weights, I'd like to start a thread requesting any information on the old timers pack contents and weights.
Think about it, someone down the road is going to read history accounts and laugh at our attempts to have a sub 30 lb pack. (You gram weenies don't count, I'm keeping MY toothbrush!) As they pack a sub 30 ounce pack on their thru hikes.
Somebody else will have to start. I am the current high bidder on a ghost whisperer puffy and must pay attention and I'm looking for the hacksaw in order to trim another 1/4 inch off that infernally heavy tooth brush handle!
Rolex
Tipi will weigh in shortly, I'm sure. I can tell you for sure that I was carrying 50+ pounds on my back routinely when I first started backpacking in the White Mountains. These were mostly weekend hikes with my buddies. We had loads of fun but usually didn't make lots of miles. Climb some mountain, find a camp, have fun at camp, descend and drive home the next day.
I'm guessing most thru-hikers in 1990 started with 50 lb. packs. Those who were still hiking a month later had trimmed that weight down to 35-40 or so. A handful of hikers were onto the ultralight thing, but they were a distinct minority.
4eyedbuzzard
10-25-2014, 11:54
Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died ;). Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
Slo-go'en
10-25-2014, 11:59
It was what it was and it was heavy, but I would guess about 30.
Camptrails frame pack - 7 pounds empty
Hollow fill sleeping bag - 4 pounds
Seva white gas stove - 1.5 pounds
White gas and bottle - 1 pound
Stainless steel pot - 0.5 pound
tent - 5 pounds
leather hiking boots - 4 pounds
Hum, less the boots that's only 18 pounds. Maybe a couple of pounds of clothes and another pound of odds and ends. That's still just over 20 pounds. Why did it seem so heavy?
I think pack weights are cyclical. Many will recall the 60s-70's with heavy packs, but that isn't all that far back. Plus, when we carried those heavier packs it was because we didn't know any better. We all learned to lighten our load even then. The real old-timers had very light packs, at least those with experience. They were the old time woodsmen like Nessmuk and Kephart. Lightweight isn't a new thing. As Nessmuk wrote, "Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health comfort and enjoyment"
When I was a kid ( late 70's ) and hiking with my father, I remember him telling me one time that his pack ( Kelty Tioga External frame ) weighed 75lbs, it was all his gear, he always made me carry my full load, my pack weighed 45-55lbs, and yes I still got all his gear, even the gear he had in the 60's and 70's.
atmilkman
10-25-2014, 12:28
Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died ;). Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
I like this post. The only reason I would cut a toothbrush handle would be for space. But, I don't have to. I have a shortened one from jail. (just kidding) When we got back from hiking in the "olden days" and started unpacking that "I didn't even touch this I ain't taking it no more" mentality kicked in real quick. Especially if it was a long last day.
Mainstream equipment did not neccessarily have to be heavy. A Kelty external frame weighed sub-4lbs. A down sleeping bag weighed less than 3. A pad (if used) was foam.
As Rafe said, most peopel did not go ultralight, but I always dig this chestnut up as an example:
In my collection, is the classic Rodale set of "Hiking the Appalachian Trail" (2 volumes). The books have the accounts of the early pioneers of the AT. A few even have their gear listed. One gentleman, Andrew J Giger, did a 3 month (!) thru-hike in 1969 with 14 lbs of gear.
His uber-detailed gear list included a camera, a SVEA white gas stove, a sleeping bag and a poncho that doubled as shelter.
The Rodale books are great for seeing what people carried in the day. Perhaps because people were out longer and had less logistic supports vs today's thru-hikers, but what strikes me isn't so much how much heavier their gear was but how much MORE of it people carried.
Kerosene
10-25-2014, 12:56
Looking back at my hiking journals from the 70's, it looks as if I was carrying about 35 pounds with 3-4 days of supplies in either a Sears external frame succeeded by a Kelty Tioga. I know that I carried an Optimus 8R white gas stove and a 5-pound tent. When I hiked with my mom or girlfriend my pack weight would increase to the 45-50 pound range as a way to slow me down and keep their pack weights in the 18-24 pound range. Today, for comparable 7+ day hikes, my pack would be about 21 pounds in summer with 3 days of supplies, and 24-26 in shoulder seasons.
CrumbSnatcher
10-25-2014, 14:46
Kelty Super Tioga External Frame Backpack
was ,is, and always will be the best pack for thruhiking the Appalachian Trail :-)
Who you calling an old-timer? I remember anywhere between 35 to 55 lbs being pretty typical pack weight back in the 1970's depending upon season and length of hike/section. Most thru-hikers probably left Springer in the 45 to 55 lb range back then with 4 to 5 days food. We wore big ass 3 lb. boots too (Continental Tyroleans, Limmers, etc.), had our Gerry down vests - and even some cotton clothes (surely we should have died ;). Sleeping bags were 3 to 4 pounds (even for most down bags), 5 +lbs if synthetic, Kelty or Camp Trails packs were 4 to 6 lbs, your Eureka timberline tent was 5 to 6 lbs, Svea 123 or Optimus 8R stove was another 3 lbs with an extra fuel bottle. Damn near everything has gotten much lighter, in many cases 1/2 of what it once was on average - except food and water. A few things haven't changed - wool socks, watch cap, etc., but most of it got a lot lighter. We all read and tried to learn from Colin Fletcher, Ray Jardine, Ed Garvey, et al. And the reduction in weight mindset that caught on drove the industry to design lighter and better performing equipment. Some of it was, and is, too extreme to be practical - does a toothbrush handle really weigh that much to compromise properly brushing one's teeth? But I must admit that I really enjoy carrying less than 20 lbs including food and water for a weekend hike these days.
Not so much you guys that went before us as "old timers" was meant.<laughing>
The kind like from Lewis and Clark", Hudson bay trappers, prospectors, etc was what that was meant. But it is fun reading what was carried in the 70 s and 80s.
I had an old army ALICE pack and two shelter halves for a long time in the late 70s as a high schooler. Also, a mess kit, and wood fire was the kitchen.
Food on long weekends had a few potatoes to bake with tin foil I remember. Pork and beans in the cans were a staple also.
Speaking of Colin Fletcher, I still carry a single walking stick to this day to ward off angry unicorns per his book!
MuddyWaters
10-25-2014, 18:54
Look up earl schaffers list. About 12 to 14 lbs if i recall. Even with the gear of the day. How about grandma gatewoods?
It wasn't until hiking became popular and was marketed to the masses with lots of gadgets that packs got heavy.
Rolex,
As I mentioned earlier, the 60-70s were the heavyweight years, but it wasn't always heavy. It wasn't the gear was heavy, we carried way too much of it.
I hinted a bit at the real old timers. They were lightweight back in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
Nessmuk's kit was under 26 lbs and that included his canoe.
Kephart's gear list was 18 lbs.
He also gave comrades lists which were under 10lbs.
During our 1976 SOBO attempt, my brother and I routinely carried 40+ packs. When we left Monson we were both over 50 pounds. We typically carried 7-10 days of food. Also wore blue jeans. Made it to SW VA before we quit.
I think pack weights are cyclical. Many will recall the 60s-70's with heavy packs, but that isn't all that far back. Plus, when we carried those heavier packs it was because we didn't know any better. We all learned to lighten our load even then. The real old-timers had very light packs, at least those with experience. They were the old time woodsmen like Nessmuk and Kephart. Lightweight isn't a new thing. As Nessmuk wrote, "Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health comfort and enjoyment"
So true, the light weight theme has been going on a lonnnng time. Quote from Hareace Kephart circa 1910:
“To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art.” – HORACE KEPHART, Camping and Woodcraft, 1917
Feral Bill
10-25-2014, 21:30
In the mid to late sixties, padded, wrap-around hip belts appeared. They made heavy packs reasonably comfortable to carry. They still had to be moved up hill (aka work).
garlic08
10-26-2014, 09:12
John Muir was ascetically ultralight in the 1850s. As mentioned above, Grandma Gatewood traveled light one hundred years later with a shoulder bag containing a shower curtain, blanket, and rain coat.
I'm just old enough to remember a time before you needed "gear" to go outside and do stuff. My older brothers would take me on overnighters with a blanket, a rain coat, a little food from the kitchen, and a few kitchen matches in my pocket. It's nostalgic for me to do that now.
Damn Yankee
10-26-2014, 11:09
Back in the eighties(when I was in good shape)myself and some buddies hiked up Mt. Washington. After stopping for the night, I lost my hiking boots to the camp fire and finished the summit and descent in Sorel winter boots carrying a 45 lb. plus pack. I don't recall why I packed my heavy winter boots, perhaps for camp shoes but, glad I did. From then on, hiking boots have never, ever gotten any where near the camp fire.
I still use Sorels for winter hiking in the Whites. But for that very reason, I don't expect to make big miles.
rocketsocks
10-26-2014, 12:58
John Muir was ascetically ultralight in the 1850s. As mentioned above, Grandma Gatewood traveled light one hundred years later with a shoulder bag containing a shower curtain, blanket, and rain coat.
I'm just old enough to remember a time before you needed "gear" to go outside and do stuff. My older brothers would take me on overnighters with a blanket, a rain coat, a little food from the kitchen, and a few kitchen matches in my pocket. It's nostalgic for me to do that now.
Dig it...now that I get.
It was what it was and it was heavy, but I would guess about 30.
Camptrails frame pack - 7 pounds empty
Hollow fill sleeping bag - 4 pounds
Seva white gas stove - 1.5 pounds
White gas and bottle - 1 pound
Stainless steel pot - 0.5 pound
tent - 5 pounds
leather hiking boots - 4 pounds
Hum, less the boots that's only 18 pounds. Maybe a couple of pounds of clothes and another pound of odds and ends. That's still just over 20 pounds. Why did it seem so heavy?
Probably because you would have had water and food in it too? ;) That would have added a bit (and probably the food would have weighed a bit more too - less lightweight options)?
squeezebox
10-27-2014, 03:44
I got a copy of " Hiking the appalachian trail" copyright 1975 from the library. looking forward to reading it.
Look up earl schaffers list. About 12 to 14 lbs if i recall. Even with the gear of the day. How about grandma gatewoods?
It wasn't until hiking became popular and was marketed to the masses with lots of gadgets that packs got heavy.
No disrespect for Grandma Gatewood, I know a couple of her grand kids in passing, but she typically was the queen of the Yogi. She seldom actually slept out, but would knock on doors asking for lodging and often for food. There was no hesitation to stop at a house to request water, rather than carrying it. Since much of the trail was actually road walking, there were plenty of opportunities each day to do these things. Much less gear was needed. Comparing these old-time thru hikes to today's situation is comparing apples to bananas.
Not trying to imply that their hikes weren't difficult and challenging. The trail that was actual trail back then was much rougher and less well marked, there were few developed services to hikers, etc. My point is that the experience was MUCH different, it would be impossible to hike their way today.
Biggest change to pack weight is amount of food carried.
The were no Tipi Walters on the Trail when I hiked in '83 ( and only one today!) but plenty of hikers routinely carried 7 to 10+ days of food at a time. Not because we had to, but because it seemed to make sence.