View Full Version : Hanging on a Thru - Underquilt AND Pad?
TurtleTracker
10-25-2014, 12:16
Short Background: Graduate student studying wildlife conservation, plan to do a thru once I graduate (sadly won't be for another year or two, which I know is a long wait, but I have no choice and I love my work) but have little hiking experience.
Simply reading through these forums has been immensely helpful to me so far, but it's time I make my first post and it involves a question that I can't seem to find a simple answer to. I currently plan to purchase a 1.1 double layer WBBB with mambajamba tarp. My roommate lent me his and I found it rather comfortable after spending the night at my field site last night (before it got stolen, I **** you not). Anyway, I only used a self-inflating therma-rest with a cut up closed cell for my shoulders. However, in colder weather I could see this set up being less than ideal. While I've seen plenty of posts about the benefits of an UQ and/or a pad, I have had trouble figuring out how reasonable it would be to hike with both during the coldest times. That is, can one carry both a pad and an UQ reasonably without having too heavy a load? Is there another option for staying warm during these very cold nights without an UQ?
Here's the catch: I want a pad because I want to be able to go to ground (really using the hammock as a backup if I can't make it to a shelter or just don't want to). I would simply send the underquilt home when I didn't need it anymore, so my question again, is it worth it or is there another option? I was hoping someone who has actually thru'd while hanging could give me some advice but any responses are welcome.
For those that might be wondering why I don't just tent it and forget this mess, it's because:
1. I personally find setting up and breaking down tents to be an annoying hassle, hammocks seem easier to me.
2. I like how dry/comfortable hammocks are by comparison.
3. I hiked part of the AT last year and ended up hiking up a mountain I didn't want to just to find a spot open enough to set up my tent. I did notice, however, the ridiculous number of trees mocking me for not having a hammock.
johnnybgood
10-25-2014, 13:45
[QUOTE=TurtleTracker;1917752]
That is, can one carry both a pad and an UQ reasonably without having too heavy a load? Is there another option for staying warm during these very cold nights without an UQ ?
[QUOTE]
I use a Neo-air x-lite partially inflated while sleeping in a Mont-Bell insulated vest with fleece base layer top and insulated long johns. I've only hammocked down to 40 degree weather and will get an UQ eventually ...DIY style ( get fabric and make your own) if necessary.
Visit www.hammockform.net (http://www.hammockform.net) for an absolute plethora of information.
johnnybgood
10-25-2014, 13:49
Take 2 ; www.hammockforums.net (http://www.hammockforums.net)
12trysomething
10-25-2014, 13:56
Take 2 ; www.hammockforums.net (http://www.hammockforums.net)
+1 on HammockForums.
Wise Old Owl
10-25-2014, 14:06
The under quilt is for hanging and when connected right preforms flawlessly with layered clothing. Unfortunately, high winds can ruin a hang and a quality pad will not allow wind to ruin your night. I have tried it and it works, this is significant when your are forced to pitch on high windy ridges instead of below the tree line. I cut a full pad down to a 3/4 with a split for the Hennessy to protect the calf and bottom. The 1/4 ended up as a sit pad for day hikes.
No I have no intention of a thru.
http://www.hammockgear.com/
4eyedbuzzard
10-25-2014, 14:23
My limited experience (I have not thru-hiked):
There is IMO no perfect solution that does both well. An underquilt and top quilt is generally the best way to go in a hammock. Next would be closed cell and top quilt or bag (this is one double duty hammock to ground option). But if you want comfort on a [hard] shelter floor, an inflatable pad with sleeping bag is the way to go, and you deal with those limitations when you use the hammock (carry closed cell shoulder extension pads or use clothing items). If the hammock must be the back-up, I think this is one way to go. If I were planning on sleeping mostly in shelters though, I would not take a hammock as a back-up as it involves more extra gear just to hang a couple of times a month or so. I'd go with a UL bug net (like this http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/191 ) that could also be hung when desired in a (only when uncrowded) shelter with a UL tarp as the back up shelter. Hammock or tent or good size tarp has the big advantage though of not stopping for the evening until you want to, especially with a hammock as it can be used anywhere there are suitable trees (tarp less so than tent or hammock in really bad weather unless you are a true expert in pitching it), rather than camping at shelters only, which you may want to avoid for many reasons at times (crowds, vermin, inconvenient stopping point). In my experience, many with hammocks camp at/near shelters anyway to take advantage of a (especially because they're dry when raining) place to sort through gear, cook, hang out/socialize, get water (usually nearby). But if you like your hammock, it is likely as or more comfortable than any shelter floor even with an inflatable in my experience. So you could just plan to hammock near shelters - comfort of hammock with convenience of shelter. Trying to cover many options requires extra gear weight, which is obviously an issue on a thru-hike.
TurtleTracker
10-26-2014, 13:34
Thanks everyone, I have been to hammock forums, I just thought I'd be more likely to find a thru hiker here, but I'll post my question there as well.
TurtleTracker
10-26-2014, 13:38
Hammock or tent or good size tarp has the big advantage though of not stopping for the evening until you want to, especially with a hammock as it can be used anywhere there are suitable trees (tarp less so than tent or hammock in really bad weather unless you are a true expert in pitching it), rather than camping at shelters only, which you may want to avoid for many reasons at times (crowds, vermin, inconvenient stopping point). In my experience, many with hammocks camp at/near shelters anyway to take advantage of a (especially because they're dry when raining) place to sort through gear, cook, hang out/socialize, get water (usually nearby). But if you like your hammock, it is likely as or more comfortable than any shelter floor even with an inflatable in my experience. So you could just plan to hammock near shelters - comfort of hammock with convenience of shelter. Trying to cover many options requires extra gear weight, which is obviously an issue on a thru-hike.
This is exactly what I want to do and why I want to do it (I'm approximating 75% hanging, 25% shelter). Really though what you bring up here is exactly why I want to hammock and why I'm wondering how feasible it will be to plan to do both, especially in cold weather.
Speakeasy TN
10-28-2014, 16:31
First welcome aboard, and I'll see ya on the hammock forum.
I will be going out with a neoair and quilts to get maximum flexibility. If I hit anything that this combo can't handle, that's just so far out of the norm that it's not worth worrying over. That thinking will plant you on the couch!
Carry right equipment and know where the emergency bailout is!
I saw a guy in Red River Gorge the other day who made an underquilt out of a cheapy $5 2.9 oz SOL Emergency blanket. This was the kind not of just thin shreddable mylar. http://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survival-1/shelter/survive-outdoors-longer-emergency-blanket.html His weighed just under 6 oz because he created a taped hem around the perimeter to help stengthen it and he used micro bungee cord at the gathered ends for a nice fit as an UQ. He said he too also likes to ocassionally go to the ground and he uses it as a ground cloth too. Seems like it might work if done right especially in the short term as you're doing.
SteelCut
10-28-2014, 19:16
IMO, you will always be warmer with an UQ than with a pad. A pad does not provide insulation for your shoulders usually.
Like the OP, I started out with a WBBB DL 1.1. While comfortable, it is on the heavy side at 1.5 lbs. I use an UQ for warmth but wanted a pad too for going to the ground or staying in a shelter when I had too. So I switched to a lighter hammock that was 1 lb that saved me 8 ozs and the added a 12oz Neoair mattress. So, for 4 additional ounces I got the flexibility of hammocking when I wanted but the option for sleeping in a shelter or on the ground as needed.
I was thinking about taking both for a section hike next year, I like my hammock but I have been stuck in bad storms where I really wish I had a pad so I could sleep in the shelter right next to me lol, when it gets really windy the rain can blow under my tarp. I find my legs get a cold draft with just an underquilt when it gets in the low 40s and below, can not seem to fix it no matter how I adjust the quilt. With the quilt and partially inflated pad it is very warm. I just have to figure out what gear to dump to make up the extra weight of the pad.
LogHiking
11-19-2014, 14:27
While I used UQs from time to time in my hanging days, I always preferred pads. Especially in the cold and wind. Pads biggest drawback comes in the form of condensation, which I never had issues with other than in the summer. I have used a thermarest ridgerest with a torso sized regular ccf section for my shoulders and torso down to the low 20s very comfortably. This is a big "to each their own" kind of thing and "hang your own hang" will ultimately prevail here. I personally wouldn't bring a hammock thru hiking, but if I were to do so, I would use an inflatable pad of my choice and have a smaller CCF section for shoulders and eliminate the UQ all together.
While I used UQs from time to time in my hanging days, I always preferred pads. Especially in the cold and wind. I have used a thermarest ridgerest with a torso sized regular ccf section for my shoulders and torso down to the low 20s very comfortably.
I also regularly use a Thremarest Ridgerest and supplement with a Reflextic Windshield "pad". In the near future, I plan on adding a 20* 3/4 UQ. I want the the comfort of the UQ, lighter weight of the 3/4, and the Pad to supplement the length and be able to go to the ground or shelter floor.
Really curious, what TQ did you use to get down to the low 20s?
TwistingInTheWind
11-19-2014, 22:54
+1 on the Reflectix gbolt!
There's an active thread on it going on in the hammock forums:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/100852-Reflectix
I roll my Reflectix pad up and let it expand inside my dry bag, then stuff my down bag and UQ inside. My hammock and tarp fits in there too.. its my whole sleep system inside.
28941
Might not be a lot of cushion from the Reflectix if you "go to ground" is a downside..
But why would you do that? :bse JUST TEASING!!
Lots of options out there..
I like LogHiking's comment:
This is a big "to each their own" kind of thing and "hang your own hang" will ultimately prevail here.
I sometimes enjoy hanging next to a shelter and using the site for its amenities and social aspects and then having my own private Idaho when I want to catch some ZZZ's.
I think if you get the best gear, it will still have too much bulk, and, if you overcompress it, it will damage the insulation value of even the finest down.
Maybe there are sections best for hammock hanging and the right weather to be there so you can have a reasonable pack load and volume.
I just got email my Hammock Gear Burrow 20 top quilt has shipped.
I am not going to overcompress that beautiful TQ. It will enjoy 4 or 5 to 10-days at a time, no thru's for me and my gear.
I mean, all in all, thru-hiker gear has a rough time of it. If you had to replace any part of hammock gear, wouldn't it cost a pretty penny? I know my high quality complete tarp and bivy do not cost that of high quality hammock gear.
We had a thread evaluating that comparison before, here.
What can the thru-hikers tell you about rain soaked clothing and gear, or, sweat soaked clothing and backpack from sweltering heat found when you hike the full length of the trail, food spillage because you are clumsy tired, or, hiker "funk"?
If you prevent those worse conditions, for your gear, hammock gear might work well for you.
hikehunter
11-20-2014, 02:40
+++(where is the infinity button) HAMMOCK FORMS
If tou got hammock questions....go to HF...or better yet, "SHUG" !!!
LogHiking
11-20-2014, 10:47
I also regularly use a Thremarest Ridgerest and supplement with a Reflextic Windshield "pad". In the near future, I plan on adding a 20* 3/4 UQ. I want the the comfort of the UQ, lighter weight of the 3/4, and the Pad to supplement the length and be able to go to the ground or shelter floor.
Really curious, what TQ did you use to get down to the low 20s?
Hi, I just used a hammock gear 20 degree burrow with the stock fill. I consider it pretty conservatively rated as it is really warm at 20 degrees and I have used it to 12 degrees with just one light base layer while on the ground. At 20 oz in the stuff sack I'm very pleased with it.
Ooh, that's warm.
Maybe I could have been okay with the Short Burrow 20 ??? and a separate down hood, as needed ???
It should be here, this Saturday. Yay.
LogHiking
11-20-2014, 12:05
Ooh, that's warm.
Maybe I could have been okay with the Short Burrow 20 ??? and a separate down hood, as needed ???
It should be here, this Saturday. Yay.
Yea it is very warm. As it was my first piece of down equipment I'm pretty sure I'm very spoiled now. Regarding the size for you I can't say for certain but I ended up getting it long enough to pull over my head and have been plenty comfy with a balaclava, hat, and pulling the quilt over when needed. With that said, I'm interested in getting the MLD apex balaclava/hood at some point as I imagine it would make it even easier to take the quilt lower.
Congrats on your new quilt. Enjoy the fluff.
IMO, you will always be warmer with an UQ than with a pad. A pad does not provide insulation for your shoulders usually.
Like the OP, I started out with a WBBB DL 1.1. While comfortable, it is on the heavy side at 1.5 lbs. I use an UQ for warmth but wanted a pad too for going to the ground or staying in a shelter when I had too. So I switched to a lighter hammock that was 1 lb that saved me 8 ozs and the added a 12oz Neoair mattress. So, for 4 additional ounces I got the flexibility of hammocking when I wanted but the option for sleeping in a shelter or on the ground as needed.
I agree with this poster. I used an UQ for my AT hike and never stayed in a shelter. There were of course a few times I would have liked to (sleet/freezing rain) but with no pad chose to hang. There were also a couple of times in very heavy fog that my down UQ became quite damp. If I was to repeat my hike I would take a Neo AirXlite and leave the UQ home. That would allow me to go to ground if needed plus if it got wet I could just wipe the Xlite down. The problem I've had with all pads is that my shoulders often get cold from touching the sides of the hammock. I've solved that problem by taking the accordion like Thermarest Zlite and cutting it in half. I lay that under the NeoairXlite in the formation of a cross and it provides perfect protection for the shoulders. It also doubles as a most excellent sit pad.
I think condensation issues vary by the person. I've never had a problem with it. I do believe having a double layer hammock helps with condensation as well as helping keep the pad in place. I also think using a Neoair helps as there are air gaps between the baffles. I also have switched to a bridge hammock which is the perfect match for a pad albeit a bit heavier. I used the Dream Hammocks Dangerbird model on my AT hike as it is quite light and comes with a weathershield built in that blocks all wind and raises the inside temp of the hammock by at least ten degrees and maybe more. He also makes one with a removable weathershield and bug netting. You could send the weathershield home after it warms up.
Cat in the Hat
I ordered Standard. I was thinking along the same lines: "long enough to pull over my head and have been plenty comfy with a balaclava, hat, and pulling the quilt over when needed".
I ordered the "Down Package Bundle" including the Crazy Warm Down Hood, using Argon fabric.
http://www.lukesultralite.com
These items, I pay full retail. Other items, I look at last year or two, or, last season or discount.
I will order a PolarWrap balaclava. Meanwhile, I have my warm beanie and the PolarWrap Warm Air Mask to keep moisture off the down, and, inbreath of pre-warmed air helps keep me warm.
I am in Montana winter, of course. I hear the weather news that the South and the East is getting Winter.
Check out joe brewer on YouTube he used both.