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View Full Version : Good advice for all hikers.



Cedar1974
10-30-2014, 06:28
I am still in the planning stages for my hike, but I just realized I am doing something in school right now that would be smart for anyone planning a thru hike or just wanting to get lost in the woods for a weekend. Take a first aid course. I am currently taking a Red Cross first aid course as my local Junior College, and I realized these are all skills that you can use on the trail. So check your local area and see if there is a Junior College or some other place offering a first aid course.

Also, while on the hammock Fourms I saw this:

http://goo.gl/c9dGuU

A very helpful guide to knots. Trust me, out in the woods you need to know your knots.

Lyle
10-30-2014, 06:48
I took my first EMT course because I was hooked on backpacking way back in 1982. Was supposed to be just for my own personal enrichment. Turned into a 30+ year career from which I just retired this past June. I'd say I agree with the above post. :)

Traveler
10-30-2014, 06:51
Good advice.

Basic first aid education is pretty important and can be invaluable in life. Frankly I don't know why this isn't part of the educational process in the 12 grade public educational system we have in the US. What I learned in the early 70s in basic and (then) advanced first aid I have used a number of times both in the woods and life in general.

Sir-Packs-Alot
10-30-2014, 08:25
Very good advice. In addition - Wilderness First Aid Courses are taught by a few organizations including NOLS and SHAMROCK. Outdoors centers along the trail teach them a few times a year. Down on the southern trail Nantahala Outdoors Center, Top of Georgia Hostel & Hiking Center, to name a few.

SteelCut
10-30-2014, 08:29
Back when I worked as a rock climbing/mountaineering guide I had my Wilderness First Responder certification. It's expired now but I've definitely thought of going through the course again. It's definitely good stuff to know.

CarlZ993
10-30-2014, 11:16
I've taken Wilderness Remote First Aid classes through the Boy Scouts & Red Cross. I'd highly recommend this course for those who spend a lot of time in the backcountry. A 2-day course w/ realistic first aid scenarios. The Scouts require WRFA certification among their High Adventure Trek participants (Philmont, Northern Tier, etc). Since my certification expired this month, I've got a class scheduled for next month (4th time to take the course). I just wish the re-certification was only one day instead of going through the same 2-day course again.

Damn Yankee
10-30-2014, 11:38
Been a National Registered EMT for years and hoping to take some WFA classes in the near future. I find my skills come in handy in everyday situations and while hiking. I feel everyone should have atleast CPR and Basic First-Aid skills, if not for themselves but anyone else they may run across either in public or on trail. Also, AED certification is good for public places such as malls. The first hour is most important to heart attack victoms and I would feel extremely helpless and guilty if I needed to help someone and couldn't do anything but stand there.

Sailing_Faith
10-30-2014, 13:28
Damn Yankee,

you ruined my post! I was prepared to say it had been trained extensively in the military, and did not need to retrain.... But then you went and said you are a registered EMT and are planning to get more training.... Darn you man! Now I have have to reconsider my position....,

July
10-30-2014, 19:32
99% of all issues can be handled with duct tape and motrin. If a serious situation, needs to be taken off trail for proper care.

10-K
10-30-2014, 19:41
Right on! A wilderness first aid course is a great thing to take.

Cedar1974
10-30-2014, 20:40
I can give you one good reason to get some kinf of First Aid certification. The Good Samaritan Law basically covers you in case you should offer first aid and accidentally injure them, like cracking a rib during CPR. The thing is, the law is different from state to state. Here in Alabama you must have a certification in order to be protected by the Good Samaritan Law.

scrabbler
10-30-2014, 20:41
I can give you one good reason to get some kinf of First Aid certification. The Good Samaritan Law basically covers you in case you should offer first aid and accidentally injure them, like cracking a rib during CPR. The thing is, the law is different from state to state. Here in Alabama you must have a certification in order to be protected by the Good Samaritan Law.

Is there a place that summarizes this by state?

July
10-30-2014, 20:48
What would Lewis and Clark thought.

Lyle
10-30-2014, 21:47
The most vital part of first aid, past stopping profuse bleeding, rescue breathing and possibly CPR is gaining the knowledge of what is an emergency and what is not. Surprisingly, few people can recognize an actual emergency. That is obvious when one works in EMS for 30 years. The bulk of calls are non-emergencies in which someone panics or simply wants attention or a ride, a few are actual emergencies where EMS is called immediately, and way too many are emergencies that SHOULD have been taken care of hours, days or even weeks earlier.

While it's true, most non-emergencies in the back country can be taken care of with duct tape and Motrin, the huge benefit of emergency medical training (the higher the level the better) is in recognizing when evacuation is needed, then being able to make a reasonable judgement as to how that should be accomplished.

Just one thing to keep in mind, not all doctors and/or nurses have any experience in emergency medicine, or, if they do, it was "in passing" and many years ago. Most of them will readily admit this, a few will not. Use some caution when taking advice from people who are unknown to you. The more training you have, the better you can judge good vs bad advice.

freightliner
10-30-2014, 22:24
I took a WFA course from AMC years ago and to this day I still carry a space blanket and rubber gloves. I've never needed to use it but i'll carry it just in case. The best I can do is stabilized and get help.

scudder
10-30-2014, 23:27
Damn Yankee, I highly recommend the WFA course that I took this past spring. Details at solowfa.com

July
10-30-2014, 23:57
Capts appreciate scuddlebutt, done been married and kickked ass scince.

July
10-31-2014, 00:09
Duct tape and the ability to make Fire, Smile:)

shakey_snake
10-31-2014, 01:19
Wilderness first aid courses are invaluable up until the point that they convince you that you need to carry an extra 3 lbs of kit that you'll likely never use because "just in case".

July
10-31-2014, 02:14
Wilderness first aid courses are invaluable up until the point that they convince you that you need to carry an extra 3 lbs of kit that you'll likely never use because "just in case".

You true copperhead...

shakey_snake
10-31-2014, 03:25
Well, if I ever get bit by one, I'm ****ed. :P

lemon b
10-31-2014, 08:56
Having a good understanding of field first aid is just good common sense.

OCDave
10-31-2014, 12:30
Having a good understanding of field first aid is just good common sense.

Occasionally, I find common sense to be not as common as one might expect.

rafe
10-31-2014, 12:45
While it's true, most non-emergencies in the back country can be taken care of with duct tape and Motrin, the huge benefit of emergency medical training (the higher the level the better) is in recognizing when evacuation is needed, then being able to make a reasonable judgement as to how that should be accomplished.

For what it's worth... as a volunteer ski patroller for a number of years (long ago) I went through the necessary first aid and CPR training, etc. Not sure if this is a universal rule or if it's still practiced, but we were not permitted to administer any pain relieving drugs at all, not even aspirin. Knock wood, I haven't found much use for it on the trail, and I'm not complaining about that.

Old Hiker
10-31-2014, 13:00
I can give you one good reason to get some kinf of First Aid certification. The Good Samaritan Law basically covers you in case you should offer first aid and accidentally injure them, like cracking a rib during CPR. The thing is, the law is different from state to state. Here in Alabama you must have a certification in order to be protected by the Good Samaritan Law.

So I see someone dying from a heart attack or choking. I don't have any kind of cert. I just stand there and let the person die for fear of a lawsuit? Yikes ! Not sure I could do that, even though I have certs for various things.

Not doubting your word, but that seems SO wrong.

Traveler
10-31-2014, 13:24
So I see someone dying from a heart attack or choking. I don't have any kind of cert. I just stand there and let the person die for fear of a lawsuit? Yikes ! Not sure I could do that, even though I have certs for various things.

Not doubting your word, but that seems SO wrong.

This is a law suit prevention law. Very few people who are successfully revived will ever sue their rescuers and only a very, very small percentage of surviving family members will do that. The Good Samaritan law offers protection from suits, though the law had to have a basic standard and used the basic first aid level from the ARC. That doesn't stop most people who find themselves in a position to help someone who don't have any certifications. Unless the Red Cross has changed, basic and advanced first aid certificates don't expire.

Lyle
10-31-2014, 13:56
I've been a licensed EMS Instructor/Coordinator in Michigan since 1985, a certified First Aid/CPR Instructor for even longer. The original intent of "Good Samaritan" laws was to protect physicians who feared being held to the same "Standard of Care" if they stopped on the side of the road to offer assistance as they would be held if providing care in an Emergency Department or their medical office.

Most "Good Samaritan" laws are worded similar to this: One can provide a "good faith" effort to assist the patient, without going beyond the scope of their training. Though originally intended for physicians, most state courts have expanded the interpretation to include any good Samaritan, of any level of training (or none). What this generally means is that an EMT cannot perform a field Tracheotomy to relieve an obstructed airway since it is beyond their scope of training, a paramedic or Surgeon can perform it since it is within their scope of training. Anyone who has received CPR training, and who, in good faith, performs CPR is protected. In fact, today most 911 dispatch centers provide the "training" on the spot and over the phone.

Aside from any Good Samaritan Laws and whether they apply or not, virtually every attorney I've spoken to has agreed that they would much rather defend a person who provided a "good faith" attempt to assist, then they would to defend a person who could have and should have assisted and didn't make any attempt.

The key is to not go beyond your level of training. Direct pressure is non-invasive and taught in many settings as a way to control bleeding, suturing is invasive and only a limited number of people have been adequately trained to provide this assistance. Pretty much, as long as the intent is to help, and you use common sense, aiding a person in need is usually protected. If not in actual law, in the court interpretations of the law. The standard that the courts use is generally: What would a person with similar training and similar equipment do to help in the same situation?

Lyle
10-31-2014, 14:10
For what it's worth... as a volunteer ski patroller for a number of years (long ago) I went through the necessary first aid and CPR training, etc. Not sure if this is a universal rule or if it's still practiced, but we were not permitted to administer any pain relieving drugs at all, not even aspirin. Knock wood, I haven't found much use for it on the trail, and I'm not complaining about that.

The legal way around this (actually written into EMS protocols for many years as it pertains to Nitroglycerine tablets for chest pain) is that you can "assist" the patient in self-administering the medication. We sometimes do silly things to get around equally silly laws and situations.