View Full Version : Ray Jardine closing his shop...
tlbj6142
10-19-2005, 16:51
http://www.rayjardine.com/index.shtml
By your quilt kits while they last. Probably the best bargin on the net. The rest of his stuff isn't worth it, but the quilt kit is a good buy (for the price).
Jack Tarlin
10-19-2005, 17:17
I just went to the address you posted, and saw two interesting things: One is that they intend to continue selling stuff for two months, or until their inventory is gone. The other interesting thing is the notice that says that Effective on 18 October 2005, they don't plan to respond to questions or comments from customers.
So they're still trying to reach consumers, they just don't want to have to talk to them?
Gee, I sure hope their customers for the next few months have no complaints about their purchases, eh?
I think their comment about not responding to questions or comments was a bit pre-mature......in any case, it doesn't inspire much confidence. I wish Ray well with his next venture, but a company that no longer wants to hear from its customers isn't really a company I'd want much to do with, even under these circumstances.
the goat
10-19-2005, 17:22
I just went to the address you posted, and saw two interesting things: One is that they intend to continue selling stuff for two months, or until their inventory is gone. The other interesting thing is the notice that says that Effective on 18 October 2005, they don't plan to respond to questions or comments from customers.
So they're still trying to reach consumers, they just don't want to have to talk to them?
Gee, I sure hope their customers for the next few months have no complaints about their purchases, eh?
I think their comment about not responding to questions or comments was a bit pre-mature......in any case, it doesn't inspire much confidence. I wish Ray well with his next venture, but a company that no longer wants to hear from its customers isn't really a company I'd want much to do with, even under these circumstances.
hahahahahahahaha, my thoughts exactly!
wow....this came out of the blue didn't it? Had anyone heard any rumors that this was coming?
Tha Wookie
10-19-2005, 18:13
I just went to the address you posted, and saw two interesting things: One is that they intend to continue selling stuff for two months, or until their inventory is gone. The other interesting thing is the notice that says that Effective on 18 October 2005, they don't plan to respond to questions or comments from customers.
So they're still trying to reach consumers, they just don't want to have to talk to them?
Gee, I sure hope their customers for the next few months have no complaints about their purchases, eh?
I think their comment about not responding to questions or comments was a bit pre-mature......in any case, it doesn't inspire much confidence. I wish Ray well with his next venture, but a company that no longer wants to hear from its customers isn't really a company I'd want much to do with, even under these circumstances.
Actually, you are given a chance to email Ray when you order something. He has given me the best customer service I have and anywhere. I also like the idea that I know where the product is made, by whom, and that it was made with the intent of sharing gearmaking with others to heighten the hiking experience.
http://www.rayjardine.com/index.shtml
By your quilt kits while they last. Probably the best bargin on the net.
That's if you know how to sew!
In colder weather I started using my mummy sleeping bag more like a quilt by only zippering it up a bit to form a foot box, turning the ENTIRE (lol) bag over, and letting it droop over the sides at each edge of my mat. Using Ray logic, the down didn't compress and it kept me warmer.
SGT Rock
10-19-2005, 18:21
Maybe he has decided it would be better to hiker and not be a cottage industry than to sit around and sell stuff and also to have to answer customer questions too. I could be wrong, but it seems like an resonable thing especially if he feels like he should be very "connected" to his customers and wants to do something besides sit around and be a vendor.
I'm sure other hikers who go into selling their stuff could relate a little to this.
Jack Tarlin
10-19-2005, 18:29
That's good to hear, Wook, and I meant no dis-respect to Ray in my post. However, if you look at what's on their website, it's clear that one's E-Mail's might not find such a receptive audience anymore as regards customer questions, problems, or complaints. It says, in no uncertain terms, that "Effective October 18, 2005, we will no longer be answering questions or comments from customers."
I have no doubt that this company provided fine customer service in the past. I'm not concerned with the past, however. I'm concerned with what's on their website TODAY.
Regardless of their past record, a reputable gear company should always be willing to hear from its customers, even if they plan to be going out of business soon. If they're still willing to take people's money and make sales, then for as long as they're still a functioning business, they ought to be willing to discuss these sales with their customers. Or to put it another way, if you're still on the lookout for customers, then you should maintain a customer service department to deal with possible problems, questions, or complaints.
It seems clear from the wording on the website that this company is still seeking customers, but it doesn't want to hear a peep from them anymore, and this is not, in my opinion, a good policy.
If they want to adopt a policy that essentially means "All sales final! No warranty or returns after such and such a date!", well that's fine. That's their right. But to encourage folks to continue purchasing goods while effectively saying that the company no longer has a Consumer Affairs department, is not, in my opinion, a good way for this company to exit the stage. The implication is that they want to make some final quick sales but aren't remotely interested in hearing from their customers anymore. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from them at this point: Anyone that's saying "We still want your money, but after we cash your check, you're on your own, regardless!" isn't someone I want to do business with.
Reputable outdoor companies are ALWAYS willing to hear from their customers, even the unhappy ones, and this is a policy that they should maintain for as long as they're in business.
I've been reading Jardine's book, and I really like it, but I agree with you, Jack. I wouldn't buy anything from a company that won't even honor the three day warranty on products, given by law, especially over the Internet, regardless of price.
Tha Wookie
10-19-2005, 18:37
That's good to hear, Wook, and I meant no dis-respect to Ray in my post. However, if you look at what's on their website, it's clear that one's E-Mail's might not find such a receptive audience anymore as regards customer questions, problems, or complaints. It says, in no uncertain terms, that "Effective October 18, 2005, we will no longer be answering questions or comments from customers."
I have no doubt that this company provided fine customer service in the past. I'm not concerned with the past, however. I'm concerned with what's on their website TODAY.
Regardless of their past record, a reputable gear company should always be willing to hear from its customers, even if they plan to be going out of business soon. If they're still willing to take people's money and make sales, then for as long as they're still a functioning business, they ought to be willing to discuss these sales with their customers. Or to put it another way, if you're still on the lookout for customers, then you should maintain a customer service department to deal with possible problems, questions, or complaints.
It seems clear from the wording on the website that this company is still seeking customers, but it doesn't want to hear a peep from them anymore, and this is not, in my opinion, a good policy.
If they want to adopt a policy that essentially means "All sales final! No warranty or returns after such and such a date!", well that's fine. That's their right. But to encourage folks to continue purchasing goods while effectively saying that the company no longer has a Consumer Affairs department, is not, in my opinion, a good way for this company to exit the stage. The implication is that they want to make some final quick sales but aren't remotely interested in hearing from their customers anymore. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from them at this point: Anyone that's saying "We still want your money, but after we cash your check, you're on your own, regardless!" isn't someone I want to do business with.
Reputable outdoor companies are ALWAYS willing to hear from their customers, even the unhappy ones, and this is a policy that they should maintain for as long as they're in business.
I completely understand your point.
this doesn't make sense... a man who has 'given the best customer service i've ever gotten' suddenly changes? there's got to be something more to this...
i'm guessing a sudden bit of very bad news (illness perhaps?) has caused an understandable knee-jerk reaction on the jardine's part... once the shock wears off, if my guess is correct, we might see a slight change in 'attitude' and a return, albeit temporarily, to 'normal'... i say give him the benefit of the doubt... something bad has to have happened. there is no other logical explanation. or maybe i'm regaining my faith in humanity... (nah... that can't be it... )
Clark Fork
10-20-2005, 02:08
this doesn't make sense... a man who has 'given the best customer service i've ever gotten' suddenly changes? there's got to be something more to this...
i'm guessing a sudden bit of very bad news (illness perhaps?) has caused an understandable knee-jerk reaction on the jardine's part... once the shock wears off, if my guess is correct, we might see a slight change in 'attitude' and a return, albeit temporarily, to 'normal'... i say give him the benefit of the doubt... something bad has to have happened. there is no other logical explanation. or maybe i'm regaining my faith in humanity... (nah... that can't be it... )Not to worry. In his September 19th campfire message, he states that he is starting a new project that will demand his full attention for a few months and that Jenny would be running the store. I ordered his book a few weeks ago and received it post haste. I presume his books will continue to be sold on Amazon.
Over time, hiking and backpacking evolves. In each era there is a "Guru du Jour." Jardine certainly has his place in the history of this constant evolution. What surprises me the most these days is how accelerated the whole process has become. What we are witnessing in front of our eyes, however, is the passing of the guru personality. Instead of a Colin Fletcher or Ray Jardine, we have the instant information of the Internet. White Blaze is in the forefront of this revolution. We may take White Blaze for granted but one day it will be fondly remembered that this was a place that made tin can stoves de rigueur, encouraged hammocking and tarping and gave women their own hiking forum. It will be facinating to see what comes up next.
Give Ray Jardine his due but history is being made here, folks.
Regards,
Clark Fork in Western Montana "Where seldom is heard a discouraging word."
Just Jeff
10-20-2005, 09:20
Seeker, from what I hear Ray was never 'normal' in his relations with other people. Wookie seems to have a completely different opinion of them than most others on the forums...but he's actually met the guy and most of us haven't.
If you're interested, check around on the forums where people post emails he has sent them. They're kinda funny, actually - none too tactful, but good for a laugh!
His book changed the way I hike, though...some good stuff in there.
tlbj6142
10-20-2005, 09:29
That's good to hear, Wook, and I meant no dis-respect to Ray in my post. However, if you look at what's on their website, it's clear that one's E-Mail's might not find such a receptive audience anymore as regards customer questions, problems, or complaints.Ray has always had very bad people skills. I assume he means he won't answer questions about random stuff, but would response to sale inquiries.
Regarding abruptness, someone on another list mentioned that they had heard rumors. But that's all I'm aware of.
Lone Wolf
10-20-2005, 09:45
I could backpack circles around that guy. Of course he's not a backpacker anyway.
tlbj6142
10-20-2005, 10:29
I could backpack circles around that guy. Of course he's not a backpacker anyway.He's more of a hiker that sleeps outside.
Tha Wookie
10-20-2005, 20:30
The man can't even stop selling his ideas without a ruckus.
:-?
I really liked his book. Although I don't think I will ever hike ultra lightweight like he and his wife do, his book really did offer some other ways to think about gear which as a newbie is really helpful for me. Hopefully he's going on to do something fun.
Rifleman
10-20-2005, 22:55
This is what I posted in response to a query on another forum about 'deals' on Rayway equipment:
It is highly unlikely that Jardine will reduce prices
on his remaining goods. Why wouldn't he? Two reasons.
Jardine is extremely egotistical, even bordering on
meglomania. His ego won't let him reduce prices.
Jardineheads abound among backpackers(the cult of ray)
& they will snap up the remaining items as memorabilia
in hopes that Jardine will re-establish himself as their
'god.' Interestingly enough Jardine has essentially
done himself what he fears others will/would do
(Freudian projection?) in his essay (on his page) 'The
Integrity Paradigm!' What you say? Merely steal ideas
from true outdoorsmen such as Horace Kephart and
George Sears who were preaching (and practicing)
light-weight outdoorsmanship over one hundred years
before Jardine. Any of the other adventures that
Jardine engaged in were simply a matter of his 'red
sports car', i.e the manner in which he dealt with his
mid-life crisis(es?) and the realization that he could
no longer 'hack' working with the true 'whiz kids' of
NASA. In the coming months and years many will ooh and
aah and others will continue to quote him as a 'guru'
of light-weight backpacking. An ever-growing number of
us will see him for what he really was/is, a flim-flam
man plain and simple. :-?
R.
MedicineMan
10-20-2005, 23:56
in that he can see no other way excpet his one, 'the world is wrong but i'm right' mentality....the difference though is that Jardine is brilliant, successful, and someone I would love to have dinner with. Its sometimes hard to admit but when Ray says the world is wrong it probably is. His exploits are expansive if not legendary and he truly impacted not only the AT but all trails. Because of his influence many who had lost the ability/love of hiking/backpacking found it again through his techniques....I can think of few backpackers who have not benefited from his teachings. His eccentricities are minor to the point of being inconsequential compared to what he has contributed.....I have to respect someone who will design and actually lay up in composite a kayak and then spend months in it in a seriously harsh environment...did I say he reminds me of Wingfoot?
Whistler
10-21-2005, 03:41
MM: His exploits are expansive if not legendary and he truly impacted not only the AT but all trails. Because of his influence many who had lost the ability/love of hiking/backpacking found it again through his techniques....I can think of few backpackers who have not benefited from his teachings. His eccentricities are minor to the point of being inconsequential compared to what he has contributed.....I have to respect someone who will design and actually lay up in composite a kayak and then spend months in it in a seriously harsh environment...I have to agree here. Kephart and Sears were great and all, but I don't think they've had nearly the impact that Jardine has. Part of that is timing, part of it is technology, part of it is personality. But when you add it up, Jardine has made a huge splash, and anyone who backpacks today should be thankful for his efforts.
-Mark
Just Jeff
10-21-2005, 03:53
Hrm. People said the same things about Howard Rourke and Hank Rearden.
tlbj6142
10-21-2005, 09:31
Hrm. People said the same things about Howard Rourke and Hank Rearden.Who...........?
Ray had some good ideas. He made lightweight backpacking a bit more mainstream. But there were others. Lynn Wheldon for example.
Ray is not a god or a revolutionary. He is just a man who was able to get some good ideas out in a manner that many people read.
Ray is not evil incarnate as well. He may be cocky..he maybe egotistical. Or not. He has character flaws like the rest of us. His flaws are just more well known and public.
Tha Wookie
10-21-2005, 16:11
This is what I posted in response to a query on another forum about 'deals' on Rayway equipment:
It is highly unlikely that Jardine will reduce prices
on his remaining goods. Why wouldn't he? Two reasons.
Jardine is extremely egotistical, even bordering on
meglomania. His ego won't let him reduce prices.
Jardineheads abound among backpackers(the cult of ray)
& they will snap up the remaining items as memorabilia
in hopes that Jardine will re-establish himself as their
'god.' Interestingly enough Jardine has essentially
done himself what he fears others will/would do
(Freudian projection?) in his essay (on his page) 'The
Integrity Paradigm!' What you say? Merely steal ideas
from true outdoorsmen such as Horace Kephart and
George Sears who were preaching (and practicing)
light-weight outdoorsmanship over one hundred years
before Jardine. Any of the other adventures that
Jardine engaged in were simply a matter of his 'red
sports car', i.e the manner in which he dealt with his
mid-life crisis(es?) and the realization that he could
no longer 'hack' working with the true 'whiz kids' of
NASA. In the coming months and years many will ooh and
aah and others will continue to quote him as a 'guru'
of light-weight backpacking. An ever-growing number of
us will see him for what he really was/is, a flim-flam
man plain and simple. :-?
R.
You must not have noticed all the discounts he has given on his site. You are so off on your assessment of Ray the rest is not even worth comment. They are riddled with inaccuracies.
Rifleman
10-21-2005, 16:39
in that he can see no other way excpet his one, 'the world is wrong but i'm right' mentality....the difference though is that Jardine is brilliant, successful, and someone I would love to have dinner with."
Respectfully Medicine Man,
There are many individuals out loose in society who "can see no other way except theirs--the world is wrong but I'm right mentality...." A high percentage of them are mentally ill and should be sequestered from society. You know them--the Stalins, Hitlers, and the Bonapartes and of course the many lesser ones. Their 'stars' are ascendant for a time yet eventually they crash and burn. I believe Hitler called it gotterdamraung ('scorched earth').
"Its sometimes hard to admit but when Ray says the world is wrong it probably is."
Jardine would/will say anything is wrong if it didn't fit his expectations. What expectations you might say? Simply the wants and desires of a spoiled child.
"His exploits are expansive if not legendary and he truly impacted not only the AT but all trails."
Jardine's exploits are and have been stunts (rowing a specialized rowboat across the Atlanticfor example). They have added essentially nothing to the march of Humanity through History. Trail maintainers add more to the AT, and other trails than Jardine's obsessive-compulsive behaviors.
"Because of his influence many who had lost the ability/love of hiking/backpacking found it again through his techniques...."
Some may have, yet there are quite a few individuals who found their way back to Religion through Jim Jones and others just like him.
"I can think of few backpackers who have not benefited from his teachings."
Again. Horace Kephart and George Sears were household names in their times. They were and are the first modern light-weight outdoorsmen. We backpackers simply forgot their teachings (to our detriment) until Jardine essentially repackaged those teachings and marketed them to us as his own. Intellectual dishonesty if not outright thievery!
"His eccentricities are minor to the point of being inconsequential compared to what he has contributed.....I have to respect someone who will design and actually lay up in composite a kayak and then spend months in it in a seriously harsh environment...did I say he reminds me of Wingfoot?"
Eccentricities are fundamentally meaningless unless backed up with real content--none of which I have observed from Jardine's public image. Who you choose to have dinner with is your affair and I haven't always chosen the best companions yet why would I choose to spend time with someone who in all likelyhood would continually talk about themselves or rant about their petty dislikes.
Please further the Dialectic. :-?
Cordially,
R.
johnny quest
10-21-2005, 19:24
dont go badmouthing howard roark!!!!! your toohey!
MedicineMan
10-21-2005, 21:39
and i'm surprised you didnt mention Grandma Gatewood! i have in the past pointed out that Jardine probably owes her royalties. i do agree that jardine has burned out, at least Golite thinks so, but regardless of his idiosyncracies/percieved public tone/ or his childish ways (hmmm, never met him so dont really know about his ways) he changed the face of backpacking whether you can admit that or not.
Just Jeff
10-22-2005, 12:08
dont go badmouthing howard roark!!!!! your toohey!
Haha...I wasn't badmouthing him! I was commenting on society's tendency to ostracize people who value their own judgment over society's...like people do to Jardine.
I'm no Toohey - I have my own achievements and profits! :)
Tha Wookie
10-22-2005, 15:59
and i'm surprised you didnt mention Grandma Gatewood! i have in the past pointed out that Jardine probably owes her royalties. i do agree that jardine has burned out, at least Golite thinks so, but regardless of his idiosyncracies/percieved public tone/ or his childish ways (hmmm, never met him so dont really know about his ways) he changed the face of backpacking whether you can admit that or not.
Burned out? You have absolutely no clue who you are talking about. I am laughing out loud right now!
Directed to the critics (not you Medman):
Just because Ray is closing his store doesn't indicate a lack of success or drive. He is moving in a new direction, and the store is not in his focus anymore.
He is light years ahead of his critics' understanding. You'll get the story later. Until then, give the man a break. For as much as he has shared and given to the hiking community I am continually shocked at how people continue to criticize his every move. Rifleman is a clear example of someone who has to channel their hate somewhere. If it weren't Ray, it would be someone else (like Warren Doyle?)
A MESSAGE TO ALL THE "GURU" CRITICS: Instead of using your pen to disect and piss, try taking notes.
Nightwalker
10-23-2005, 00:33
A MESSAGE TO ALL THE "GURU" CRITICS: Instead of using your pen to disect and piss, try taking notes.
Hey Wook, ya ever noticed that it's a lot easier for people to criticize someone than to actually do something theirselves?
Notice Sgt. Rock: He's a doer. But do you ever hear him take the role of boo-bird, criticizing other entrepeneurs from the sideline? Nah, and you never will.
One example of many.
Just Jeff
10-23-2005, 01:01
Yeah - and that it's the people who are actually DOING something who get criticized the most?
I figure I cannot judge another person's soul, only his actions. RJ's inventiveness and adventurousness impress me.
Also, I love his quilt kits!!!
Tha Wookie
10-23-2005, 13:48
Hey Wook, ya ever noticed that it's a lot easier for people to criticize someone than to actually do something theirselves?
I certainly have noticed.
I keep hope by remembering that most people who do so will never cross me on the trail.
tlbj6142
10-23-2005, 15:50
Hey Wook, ya ever noticed that it's a lot easier for people to criticize someone than to actually do something theirselves?I think Ray is an exception to this. By taking the "I'm god and nothing I can do is wrong atitude" he has invited criticism. In a way, I think he lives for it more than the worshipers. He just uses the worshiper quotes to get everyone else fired up.
He definately has some sort of "problem". What I don't know.
I do think he'll be "back" he jumps from project to project all the time. This is nothing new.
tlbj6142
10-23-2005, 20:46
ooops......
Nightwalker
10-24-2005, 01:38
I think Ray is an exception to this. By taking the "I'm god and nothing I can do is wrong atitude" he has invited criticism. In a way, I think he lives for it more than the worshipers. He just uses the worshiper quotes to get everyone else fired up.
He definately has some sort of "problem". What I don't know.
I do think he'll be "back" he jumps from project to project all the time. This is nothing new.
Well, I'm odd as a box of rocks, to say the least, and it just gets to me to see folks come down on other folks for their eccentricities.
If you'll look back over the last couple of years, there have been times that I've been WAY out there during some bad migraine periods. I just feel for other folks when it seems that people don't wanna just live and let live.
The simplest thing to do to someone who irks you is just ignore them. Weary used to piss me off royally. It was not him. It was my perceptions. I didn't do what I should have and just ignore him. I used to try to argue with him about everything. Now I love the old galoot to pieces, but Weary's wisely a bit wary, due to past experience. And who could blame him?
Anyway. Free advice that's worth the price that you paid for it...
Well, I'm odd as a box of rocks, to say the least, and it just gets to me to see folks come down on other folks for their eccentricities.
If you'll look back over the last couple of years, there have been times that I've been WAY out there during some bad migraine periods. I just feel for other folks when it seems that people don't wanna just live and let live.
The simplest thing to do to someone who irks you is just ignore them. Weary used to piss me off royally. It was not him. It was my perceptions. I didn't do what I should have and just ignore him. I used to try to argue with him about everything. Now I love the old galoot to pieces, but Weary's wisely a bit wary, due to past experience. And who could blame him?
Anyway. Free advice that's worth the price that you paid for it... Good advice, Frank.
Roland
Rifleman
10-25-2005, 00:10
and i'm surprised you didnt mention Grandma Gatewood!
i have in the past pointed out that Jardine probably owes her royalties. i do agree that jardine has burned out, at least Golite thinks so, but regardless of his idiosyncracies/percieved public tone/ or his childish ways (hmmm, never met him so dont really know about his ways) he changed the face of backpacking whether you can admit that or not. Medicine Man you are right I should have mentioned Grandma Gatewood. Perhaps someone has written a biography?
Regarding Jardine, he has been influential to modern light-weight backpacking. I have (and continue to see) seen him (observations of his public self) more akin to the ancient Greek figure Alcibiades--someone always out for himself and not to be trusted. From everything I've researched on Kephart and Sears they had honor. From my observations of Jardine's behavior he does not.
Respectfully,
R.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-25-2005, 07:36
Sometimes "Take what you like and leave the rest" is the best course. RJ is a creative fellow who has brought the minimalist ideas of Granny Gatewood to many who likely would have never found those ideas otherwise. I don't know RJ personally, but he appears to be very passionate about his concepts and ideas. I have no idea if he is trustworthy in his personal life.
Sadly, such devotion to a single course curbs creative thinking (because possiblities that exist in other courses are never considered so they can never be incorporated into new creations / concepts). Disregarding what RJ has to say because of his delivery would have kept me from incorporating his ideas into the new sleep system I'm developing. While I could have eventually figured out what to do and how to do it with this new system, it would have taken longer and involved more mistakes.
What I rambling all over the side trails to say is that listening to everyone's ideas and concepts with an open mind will get you to the informed place of making the best decision faster than wasting a ton of energy disregarding information because the source's personality rubs you the wrong way.
Rifleman
10-26-2005, 01:40
"Sometimes "Take what you like and leave the rest" is the best course. RJ is a creative fellow who has brought the minimalist ideas of Granny Gatewood to many who likely would have never found those ideas otherwise."
Frolicking,
Its not that the 'many' either would or would not have discovered the minimalist ideas of Gatewood; those 'many' evidently needed an unbalanced pied piper to follow. That in and of itself tells me a lot about the shallow needs of the 'many.' Disturbing evidence of the current state of the society that we live in.
"I don't know RJ personally, but he appears to be very passionate about his concepts and ideas. I have no idea if he is trustworthy in his personal life."
Richard Nixon was very passionate about his concepts and ideas. Something this country found out about almost too late. For a good indication of Jardine's trustworthyness in his personal life look to how he has comported himself in public, say for example with GoLite.
"Sadly, such devotion to a single course curbs creative thinking (because possiblities that exist in other courses are never considered so they can never be incorporated into new creations / concepts)."
However any of us may 'think out of the box' eventually we have to decide on a single course of action. That is the way this universe seems to operate. Although the Multiverse interpretation of Quantum theory seems to hold promise for trying different new creations/concepts.
"Disregarding what RJ has to say because of his delivery would have kept me from incorporating his ideas into the new sleep system I'm developing. While I could have eventually figured out what to do and how to do it with this new system, it would have taken longer and involved more mistakes."
Far be it for me to say no to fast and easy. The occasional fast food hamburger and fries springs to mind. Yet I have learned that all I really have in this existence is time and if I can (and will) learn from my mistakes I get to savor the time left even more.
"What I rambling all over the side trails to say is that listening to everyone's ideas and concepts with an open mind will get you to the informed place of making the best decision faster than wasting a ton of energy disregarding information because the source's personality rubs you the wrong way."
I agree with you. An open mind is the first prerequsite. A skeptical mind follows closely thereafter. I can love people but I don't have to like some of them. I try to overlook the personality and attend to the psychopathology underneath. :-?
Cordially,
R.
IndianaDave
10-30-2005, 14:56
"this doesn't make sense... a man who has 'given the best customer service i've ever gotten' suddenly changes? there's got to be something more to this..."
:-? I'll throw this on the table ... last Spring I was interested in weight details with Ray's quilts and received a really curt, snappy reply (IMHO) that discouraged me from investing with Ray.
Not sure who the rep was ... but it was Ray's company that replied ...
On the other hand I should add, Ray's Book changed my camping life ... for the better!
There is an update on the RJ site saying that are going to stay open. And that they are restructuring the business.
Interesting.
There is an update on the RJ site saying that are going to stay open. And that they are restructuring the business.
Interesting.
i saw the same thing,he is ataying open:cool: neo
Just Jeff
11-12-2005, 11:23
I bet his website traffic increased dramatically with the announcement he was going out of business, though.
Tha Wookie
11-13-2005, 14:16
he indicated to me that they were flooded with requests to stay open.
They responded to the demand.
it did generate a huge surge in sales and feedback.
SGT Rock
11-13-2005, 14:46
You gotta love a business that responds to its customers.
tlbj6142
11-14-2005, 11:37
Seems sort of like a "new" Coke gimmic.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ray is a marketing guru/genius!:-?
Seems sort of like a "new" Coke gimmic.
If only the fine people who make Coke were crafty enough to make a terrible product so as to get the old one popular again. :)
An interesting read about the whole New Coke debacle. One of the classics in marketing disasters. Seriously, makes interesting reading:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/newcoke.asp
Nothing to do with this discussion..but it does have some cool info about one of the greatest "*** were they thinking ?!??!" moments!
the Pontiac AzTec is another one.... "But all the focus groups, marketing studies said it would sell and looked good".
WWTT. (what Were They Thinking) :datz
tlbj6142
11-14-2005, 17:21
Kind of like the Homer mobile...
The separate mother-in-law bubble was a great idea.
sierraDoug
11-14-2005, 21:41
Jardine gave no real info about why he was closing his "shop", and had the infamous blurb about not being available for customers after a certain date. Now he's back with no info about why the change of heart. And he never took all the product info off the front page when "closing". Looks highly questionable to me.
By the way, selling a tarp kit and not including assembly instructions, rather writing a whole book to buy instead is lame.
hikerjohnd
11-14-2005, 22:06
Seems sort of like a "new" Coke gimmic.
Yea - I'm thinking there was some inventory that needed liquidated with a quickness...
tlbj6142
11-15-2005, 10:54
Yea - I'm thinking there was some inventory that needed liquidated with a quickness...He is starting a new "project", so maybe it required a bit of capital to get off the ground????
If he is looking for chump change he can sell his integrity- again. I loved his I'm sorry, can I get my money now, Golite letter. Poor Ray, I actually feel sorry for him.:(
Tha Wookie
11-16-2005, 01:34
If he is looking for chump change he can sell his integrity- again. I loved his I'm sorry, can I get my money now, Golite letter. Poor Ray, I actually feel sorry for him.:(
Maybe you could be a jem and just loan him a couple of your millions;)
wentworth
11-16-2005, 08:02
Golite has another side to the story: copies of Ray's original letters to them. Worth checking out on their website...
http://www.golite.com/about/golite_and_ray_jardine.asp
might be worth looking at...