View Full Version : Much love for the cottage vendors
overthinker
11-12-2014, 12:28
Just wanted to share some appreciation for some cottage vendors who I've had great experiences with recently.
First up is Henry Shires of TartTent fame. Ordered a Moment DW from him on a Saturday with Priority Mail shipping. Come Monday, my plans had moved up and I needed it for the following Friday, so I sent an email to their main email for questions. Within 30 minutes I had an answer from Henry himself assuring me that it would be shipped same day and should arrive in time - and this was well before the start at "normal business hours" for his California location. Tent arrived that Wednesday and performed better than I had expected.
Second is Zelph (Dan), maker of the Fancee Feast and other stove wonders. Not only did I get a shipping confirmation within half an hour of placing my order, but he somehow managed to save me money on shipping and gave me a refund for the difference.
Aside from the great products they make, it's this personal connection between businessperson and customer that really draws me to the cottage vendors out there. We've all read the threads of when an order goes south and someone ends up angry - there's some expression about squeaky wheels and grease that sort of applies here. For the majority of purchases, however, the transaction goes smoothly and no one says a word.
So, here's a big THANKS to those of you out there who make those things we all drool over.
ksquared
11-16-2014, 22:48
I love my tarptent. Thank you henry shires for being awesome!
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Yes, exactly. Yesterday someone asked me if I bought my gear at REI. I said no, they don't sell what I want. I don't know why they don't handle tarp tent, six moons designs, anti-gravity gear, and many others that are US made and really good. But like most big retailers they only sell from China. So you have to go "boutique" to get the decent light stuff from US sellers. Many hikers don't know this.
For me it's been great dealing with ULA, Warbonnet,and Zelph. I try to spread the word as much as possible about all the great cottage companies. Won't be long till I get the privilege to buy from TarpTent! Keep up all the great work! I only wish places like Backpacker magazine would review these premium products for gear review and help get the word out.
+1 on my experience with TarpTent, I forget who it was I spoke with at the time but when I had questions about the setup, support was A+++.
I think they have some serious competition now. ;) Which is a good thing.
It's great being able to walk through REI and not really covet much of anything.
Traveler
12-06-2014, 08:54
Yes, exactly. Yesterday someone asked me if I bought my gear at REI. I said no, they don't sell what I want. I don't know why they don't handle tarp tent, six moons designs, anti-gravity gear, and many others that are US made and really good. But like most big retailers they only sell from China. So you have to go "boutique" to get the decent light stuff from US sellers. Many hikers don't know this.
Have you asked these makers why they don't market their products at these large retailers? My guess is there are several reasons. The costs of ramping up for that level of retail exposure can be pretty daunting. Manufacturing for large retailers like REI or EMS requires a fairly significant investment to support the inventory needs and flooring plans that would be necessary to supply gear on that level. That would likely impact their ability to produce customized products for UL people who have specific needs, one of the chief reasons these firms are as successful as they are.This in turn may cause them to lose that business to new cottage industry providers that would pop up to fill that need.
UL gear requires some fairly deep understanding of what you need and making it work. From the retail perspective of places like REI or EMS the returns issue alone would be considerable by those who buy without real understanding beyond the potentially educated sales person. If you watch the returns counter for a while in any of these stores you will see all kinds of things brought back that people manage to ruin or can't figure out that you would find stupidly simple. The target market of retailers like REI or EMS are weekenders and short distance hikers by and large. Out of every 100 people who come into a store, very few are going to be interested in UL gear as opposed to conventional/consumer grade items. This actually helps to create the market that the cottage industry makers serve.
Niche makers have always existed in most any activity people take seriously. They produce a far higher quality product than is typically found in common retail settings, at a far higher cost, for those who are far more advanced in the activity.
To add to what AT Traveler said... so much of the retail industry in the USA has become homogenized, catering to the lowest common denominator. You see this in clothing, appliances, computers, electronics, automobiles, etc. Malls are a turn-off. Even EMS and REI are subject to this. If I find "the good stuff" at all, it's usually waay downtown, or out in the boonies, eg. some outfitters you find along the trail.
Simply having to maintain a physical, brick-and-mortar retail presence is a burden. My guess is that the better cottage outfits would have a hard time doing business without the Internet. Almost all of the big ticket backpacking gear I've bought for the last 10+ years has been bought online. (Before then, it was mail order from Campmor. :))
Some of the cottage gear only appears glamorous to us. Most cuben tents, for example, look like material a homeless person might use to the untrained eye. REI seems to cater to the status conscious mainstream buyer. And their return policy precludes selling gear that can be easily destroyed if used improperly.
Tuckahoe
12-06-2014, 10:16
There are a number of reasons that we are not really going to see cottage manufacturers retailing at the big boys that has nothing to do with the race to the lowest common denominator.
I have had the opportunity buy from many cottage vendors and sorry to say that one of the biggest issues is that so many trying to create a business are flakes. Plain and simple. They can make great gear, or reproductions of whatever, but they suck as businessmen.
However I think that Chris McMaster of ULA has adressed this topic very well in a number of interviews --
http://hikeitlikeit.com/2011/ultralight-adventure-equipment-chris-mcmaster/
One of the bad raps that the manufacturers in Asia get is that their quality is shoddy. We had a sample pack sewn by an outfit that was trying to get our business and the quality was extremely high, and the price was about 1/3 what our costs are. If we had to sell through retailers we would have no choice but to outsource overseas. As far as I know we are one of only 2 manufacturers of any size to still manufacture in house and in the US, Mystery Ranch being the other, the reason we both survive is a loyal customer base and the fact that we can make almost all our sales direct to the customer. The plus to manufacturing in house is that we aren’t dependent on others for our inventory, if you order a pack and we don’t have it, we’ll sew it that day.
It has ever been thus. Photo professionals know where to buy the best gear -- they don't buy it at the mall, or at Best Buy or at Amazon. The world's best photo stores are found (or used to be found) near 47th St. in downtown Manhattan, in tiny hole-in-the-wall spaces where you have to claw your way to the counter over haggling customers and boxes of inventory. Nowadays they buy their gear online from places like BH Photo. The latter (BH Photo) is one of the few that still has an impressive brick-and-mortar presence, still in downtown Manhattan. Just don't expect to shop there on a Saturday. ;)
Just Bill
12-06-2014, 15:47
I think you only need to look to GoLite to see why a cottage vendor shouldn't go mainstream.
They were arguably one of the first, and "hit the big time" in achieving the traditional model of making it to the retail market at large.
Then everyone who liked them in the first place started calling them "GoHeavy".
Then they realized that the insane return policies, uneducated sales staff, and other financial burdens were unsustainable.
To top it off, they had to give up to 50% away for the "privilege" of having their goods sold.
So they pulled their stuff, sold it to the public for what they got selling it to the box stores. Likely making a decent profit.
Then they tried to go to the route of The North Face (who also busted out) and Patagonia in opening their own storefronts.
Except they were not selling a premium product at full retail to cover the cost of brick and mortar, they were selling a watered down cottage product at half off.
They also likely should have dropped their pricing strategy and confussing "sales".
After they made the switch from retail it only caused problems and the many questions about why their stuff was cheap or always on sale.
As they made the choice to go mainstream retail in the beginning, they stuck with the overseas manufacturing, large piece count orders that they needed for REI no longer made sense and they were plagued by inventory issues all the way along. They had several great pieces- but every time they came up with a "must have hit"- it was sold out two or three months into the year- never to return. A smaller (higher cost, lower piece order) process would have allowed them to remain flexible in their capitol outlay and inventory strategies without impacting profits much and still delivering affordable goods.
Any cottage vendor with any business sense (I agree there are many without it) looks at GoLite's tale of "success" as a warning.
If nothing else- why would you sell 4 packs to REI for $200 bucks when you could sell one directly to a customer.
Especially when you know that customer will be happy, satisfied, and unlikely to suffer from the same 1 in 4 return ratio the REI customer has.
The Yvon Chouinard's and Doug Thompkins's of the world are exceptionally rare.
The Judy Gross's, Joe Valesko's, Ron Mauk's, Glen VanPeski's and other cottage success of this world are rare enough.
It's too bad Coup didn't stop there, there was some great stuff coming out for a bit...
I would like to say Thank you to "YAMA MOUNTAIN GEAR" for their very friendly and courteous service and for their great tent I LOVE IT.
P.S I am surprised no body has mentioned Z-Packs yet or have they gotten to big to be considered a cottage vendor any more they better be careful or they might end up like GO-LITE.
Just Bill just mentioned Joe Valesko of ZPacks. I don't see them ending up like GoLite. I think GoLite just didn't sell a compelling product. I still consider ZPacks to be a leader in the field with good selection for all types of weight-minded backpackers.
I'm a big fan of MLD and ZPacks.
Just Bill
12-06-2014, 20:55
Just Bill just mentioned Joe Valesko of ZPacks. I don't see them ending up like GoLite. I think GoLite just didn't sell a compelling product. I still consider ZPacks to be a leader in the field with good selection for all types of weight-minded backpackers.
I'm a big fan of MLD and ZPacks.
yar- that I did.
I don't see anybody ending up like GoLite.
There are lots of "Fringe" Cottage folks out there too- but I think any of the ones we all know and love are good folks likely to hang around.
FWIW- nearly every company you will ever buy gear from was a cottage company. Patagonia was started making Pitons on a portable forge in a VW bus. The North Face was started in the same bus actually. Yvon kept his company and it became what it is today. TNF was sold several times and watered down- with that buyer cashing in on the reputation and name. The guy who founded TNF also founded Esprit. And sold that too. He is now the largest private landowner by acreage in the world dedicated to conservation- fair swap if you ask me.
The nice thing is- in the age of the internet- a small company can stay viable and reach customers without having to resort to the retail chain and all it's pitfalls. There has always been cottage (mail order) and niche products everywhere- what's new is that you don't need to be a "big boy" to make good stuff and reach a large audience.
HeartFire
12-07-2014, 07:14
I sure wish Frostline kits were still available. I still have a vest I made in the '70's.
Yes, exactly. Yesterday someone asked me if I bought my gear at REI. I said no, they don't sell what I want. I don't know why they don't handle tarp tent, six moons designs, anti-gravity gear, and many others that are US made and really good. But like most big retailers they only sell from China. So you have to go "boutique" to get the decent light stuff from US sellers. Many hikers don't know this.
To expand on Just Bills explanation.
When I had my business I sold both retail and wholesale. While wholesale delivered volume it was the retail that delivered the profit. In my category it was common to do keystone pricing, a $100 wholesale would sell for $200. No clue whether REI or other large retailers are higher or lower but the following example will show the issue.
Outdoor Widget sells for $200 on Cottage Industry's website. If they are luck the all in cost (including returns) of the widget is say $90.
Direct sale - Profit is 200-90-10= $100 per unit (assumed $10 sales cost)
Wholesale - Profit is 100-90= $10 per unit (assume keystone pricing.)
You may say, wait, Cottage can just raising their price to $125 wholesale. Maybe, but there would be few retailers interested in carrying a product that could purchased for less on the manufacturers website.
At a 10% profit margin few companies would have a sustainable business. There is one scenario which may make sense, if Cottage can increase sales enough to drop production cost. But this is the catch 22. If the sales increase then alternative sources of assembly would likely be needed. Quality, lead time and loss of the cottage feel would be the result.
I sure wish Frostline kits were still available. I still have a vest I made in the '70's.
Same here. They pulled off a neat trick, making a product that could be assembled by an 8th grader and still look nice and function well at a very reasonable price.
The network effects make it possible for cottage vendors to sell directly and earn the kind of margins that allow local, fast, and customized production. When they try to transition to distribution through retailers, they must outsource production overseas in order to earn acceptable margins since the retailer demands a margin as well. GoLite attempted to create their own retail presence which, of course, takes boatloads of capital. So there are downsides to mass market retail whether distributing products through third parties or direct. Prior to the Internet, I'm not sure that small vendors like zPacks could have achieved the word of mouth needed to gain scale without much advertising. Happy customers serve as unpaid promoters of cottage gear products. It seems like a wonderful business model, although one that has inherent limits of scale. Maybe cottage gear shops should be happy with their niche markets and avoid the risk of ruining a very high margin small business by trying to go big.
Heartfire, How about Green Pepper patterns? http://therainshed.com
Where are the Frostline people anyway? Maybe we could find them?
One Blog found Millarmitts family.
I know I would like to have the cottage industry original materials Millarmitts because the original materials do work much better. I had three pair, wearing them out, but they work much better, and, the price wasn't prohibitive.
I have never had better gloves for rope handling for mountainclimbing purposes.
I participated in training and practice: one person runs out a long slope. We practiced dynamic and static belay.
I never got a rope burn.
I also miss Eddie Bauer, when Eddie Bauer was only one store in Seattle, WA. The Eddie Bauer Expedition vest, insulated with synthetic materials and having a stretch panel where the side seams are, is my best vest ever, as was their slightly insulated "radar o'reilly" hat with contrasting short bill and roll-down ear flaps.
HeartFire
12-07-2014, 15:43
The network effects make it possible for cottage vendors to sell directly and earn the kind of margins that allow local, fast, and customized production. When they try to transition to distribution through retailers, they must outsource production overseas in order to earn acceptable margins since the retailer demands a margin as well.
Speaking just for myself, this is not necessarily true. When I first started LightHeart Gear, I did have tents outsourced and made in China. I got a lot of flack for having stuff "made in China" (BTW, the quality was outstanding). So, I opened my own factory here in Asheville, NC. I make all the tents here - I can make them for the same cost as having them made in China. I could easily ramp up production if I wanted or needed to if I were to go into distribution through retailers (yes, I would make a lot less money). Having everything made here, I can keep costs down by manufacturing just what I need, when I need it, I can make changes to the patterns quickly based on feedback from customers. I also don't have to carry $$$$$$ worth of stock on hand.
Yes, the internet and websites make this all possible for me. I have a lot of fun doing all this stuff, when it is no longer fun, I will quit.