View Full Version : Neoair Xlite as pack support
I just purchased a Neoair Xlite regular. In the past, I have used a Prolite regular and have placed the deflated pad, folded in fifths, against the inside back panel of my ULA Circuit, not so much for "pack support" as to provide a bit of additional padding beyond what the Circuit itself provides. Due to my perception of the fragility of the Neoair vs. the Prolite, I'm wondering whether I should change how I pack it. Would it be better to roll up the pad rather than fold it in fifths and place it against the back panel? I don't think that I really *need* the additional padding especially if it comes at the risk of puncturing the pad. How do others pack up the Neoair? Thanks.
I have a regular Neoair and it doesn't seem particularly fragile to me. I'm thinking of getting a ULA Ohm 2.0 and I wouldn't hesitate to pack my Neoair into it the same way you describe packing your Prolite. I would fold up the pad in slightly different ways from time to time so the creases-when-folded aren't in the same place every time.
Maybe I'm thinking it is fragile due to a side by side comparison to the Prolite. It sure is more comfortable.
I have used both these pads that you have mentioned, and always have just rolled them up and used my foam sit pad as cushion/support. On the gossamer it goes outside and on ula it goes inside. My only concern really bout folding the neoair as you mentioned would be some piece of gear constantly 'rubbing' or or frictioning a 'hotspot' which over time might weaken an area. Either way you would probably be fine, it would be alot easier to pack up in the mornings if you did'nt always have to roll up that pad. :)
Slo-go'en
11-15-2014, 10:10
I have the original neo-air so it might be a little more durable, but I've been using it since 08 and has ridden in the bottom of my pack for many, many miles with no problems yet. Man, I've been using that pad for 7 years now, wow.
BTW, I fold my neo-air in half width wise, then in half length wise, then again length wise and then it fits into the bottom of my pack.
I have used both these pads that you have mentioned, and always have just rolled them up and used my foam sit pad as cushion/support.
I carry a small piece of blue foam as a sit pad which is well worth the weight but I keep it outside my pack for easy access when taking short breaks.
I carry a small piece of blue foam as a sit pad which is well worth the weight but I keep it outside my pack for easy access when taking short breaks.
I do this as well Coffee. I agree it's well worth the extra ounces. I keep mine outside my pack as it fits perfectly strapped to the side of my pack with one end in the side pocket of my pack. It not only gives some cushion for the backside but also assures me of having a dry spot to sit. In winter it also provides extra insulation underneath in addition to my neo air x-lite.
I've used both inflatable pads as well. I don't notice any particular significant fragility of either one though I always keep in mind they are light wt/UL pieces knowing what that entails. That doesn't mean I've never had to repair a small leak though either. Those leaks I've experienced have always come from something outside the pack when sleeping on it.
How I pack an inflatable pad and use them in my pack depends on the pack I'm using, what else I'm carrying, and the environment I'm hiking in. Like Mapman mentioned, I fold them in different ways to avoid creases and am mindful of what pushes up against them inside my pack as also July mentioned. For example, when carrying dedicated tarp poles and stakes the stakes are carried vertically in a tied up soft sunglass case w/ the pts down at the very bottom of my backpack and I'll alter which side of the backpack I carry the poles vertically against the NeoAir when using a NeoAir as a virtual frame/suspension. I now only use NeoAir Xlite in the Shortie and Women's version(67"X20"). How I pack an inflatable pad and use them in my pack depends on the pack I'm using and what else I'm carrying. With a ULA Circuit it just gets rolled up and stored safely in a stuff sack in the pack. With a ULA CDT, my go to thru-hiking pack, either of those NeoAirs become a virtual suspension as well as back cushion. In this scenario it is folded deflated and placed in the pack first w/ air valve towards the top of the pack held in place w/ two elastic straps. I then load the pack being mindful of anything sharp or hard that might press against the pad and my back. After the pack is loaded I partially inflate the NeoAir to my liking.
I have both an xlite and xtherm and fold either of those as use as a pack frame against my back. Hiked with three other very experienced hikers on the wonderland trail and all three of them also did the same. One other trick that many do is partially inflate the pad as the pack volume drops. That is a very cushy ride. one caveat.... All of us had roughly 8 lb. base weights.
Just Bill
11-15-2014, 13:56
I would echo the durability comments- no issues with mine either. The patch kit and an Alchy pad are light enough insurance.
I often used the same Prolight style of packing, I am not all that happy with the NeoAir as a replacement for this use. But as it is the superior pad I have no real complaints.
The self-inflaters with their internal foam hold their shape much better. The Structure-less NeoAir is hard to get right in this regard.
1- While you lay on it- let the air out until you hit the deck, then close the valve. You can mostly get the fold up method to work. In theory you should be able to let a bit of air out to get it right, but in practice each fold traps it's own air so it's trickier than it should be. You also have the tapered shape to contend with.
2- An alternative is to roll the pad from the foot end until you get to the point that you like the shape (only the last foot worth of cells has air). If you cram it in rolled it will unroll a bit as you move. This is further complicated if you use a water bladder. You can make a hard fold with the rolled up section and then unroll it back around the inflated portion to get a bit more lasting frame.
3- Even when you get it all right- it's still a bit thick and takes up a lot of pack volume. Making it thinner kinda defeats the point as bulges just shift air out of the way and result in no padding or lumpy loads. This added volume can be handy though as the food bag empties and you can use the Neo-Air to fill volume or as a CFF style stuff tube rather than relying on tons of compression straps or a deformed pack to maintain a good load shape.
So- more often than not- it just gets deflated, rolled up, and stuffed in the bottom and I've adapted my packing style accordingly. As the trip progresses I find my self using it to fill dead space on the outside of the pack.
Some good ideas in this thread. I'm going to experiment packing up my gear with the Neoair to see how it will work the best. I'm probably going to just fold it a few times and put it at the very bottom of my pack, then the sleeping bag on top of it, and so on, unless I feel like I actually need the additional padding. The Circuit has a padded back panel so maybe that will be enough.
"Even when you get it all right- it's still a bit thick and takes up a lot of pack volume. Making it thinner kinda defeats the point as bulges just shift air out of the way and result in no padding or lumpy loads. This added volume can be handy though as the food bag empties and you can use the Neo-Air to fill volume or as a CFF style stuff tube rather than relying on tons of compression straps or a deformed pack to maintain a good load shape."
I don't know what type of backpack, load volume, and load wt you're experiencing this with but these things have never occurred in my experience using a frameless backpack. Frameless/rucksack type backpacks are what I use for the large majority of my hikes. I've never experienced lumpiness along my back or experienced virtual suspension issues like it not doing its load handling job due to using the NeoAir as a virtual suspension. I match my load's volume and wt carried closely to a rucksack type backpack for which it was designed for perhaps w/ a little cowling pack volume to spare. Again, I first loosen all load stabilizing straps, fold the NeoAir and place it flat in the backpack against my back's side. The load then is packed making sure the folded pad stays in place as I load while being mindful of sharp/hard objects(like a stove, canister, stakes, tarp poles, etc) that I might surround with some extra padding(socks, jacket, bivy, tarp, sleeping bag/quilt, etc). After loaded partially inflate the pad SUFFICIENTLY JUST ENOUGH to act as a suspension and padding. Adjust stabilizers. Any lumpiness of the NeoAir is occurring on the inside of the pack next to the load as it conforms to the load's shape not my back which is what I would think most prefer as it helps stabilize the load and gives a comfy feel along one's backside. If anything, using the thicker NeoAir verses the older thinner ProLite, I feel more cushion on my back and greater load stability. Either pad is inflated sufficiently enough to do it's job and both conform somewhat to the shape of the load. When I first switched to the NeoAir I too initially thought it would take up more volume in a frameless backpack as it's thicker but this hasn't been my experience. I've even loaded the same rucksack type backpacks with identical loads in the identical way other than using the different NeoAir Shortie or ProLite Shortie to compare and recognize no difference in pack load capability. The only thing I would like to experience differently is a little more air between my back and the pack. Some backpacks like the ArcBlast do this for me though.
Getting away from the OP's topic but I feel if I want the most UL integrated backpack system I'm not going to use the burrito method with a CCF pad, especially a thicker CCF pad, as those pads with their greater volume which can't be reduced in volume as much as an inflatable pad absolutely do interfere with interior pack volume significantly so while using a frameless pack. Different systems different people this can work though. CCF pads are attached to the outside of my backpacks. Personally, somewhat depending on the environment, I don't want an inflatable pad stored on the outside of my backpack anyway as it's prone to more easily being damaged. NeoAirs are a pricey backpack item too. With a cheaper CCF pad I don't have that damage concern.
"I'm going to experiment packing up my gear with the Neoair to see how it will work the best. I'm probably going to just fold it a few times and put it at the very bottom of my pack, then the sleeping bag on top of it, and so on, unless I feel like I actually need the additional padding."
Personally, I would place something else like a sleeping bag in a stuff sack on the bottom of the Circuit and then the NeoAir on top of it perhaps surrounded by some other protective soft gear. I would not place a NeoAir especially a folded one out of a stuff sack at the very bottom of my backpack. Even though the Circuit has a heavier denier enforced Dyneema bottom that area of a backpack experiences the brunt of the environment(glass, thorns, sharply pointed sticks, large splinters, nails, pull tabs, metal, abrasion, etc ) as well as things potentially damaging in the pack.
colorado_rob
11-15-2014, 19:54
As much good luck (AKA: no leaks) as I've had with various Neoair models over many years, I would not use one for any additional support or padding; maybe that's precisely why I've had no leaks. I always just roll mine up tightly and place down among my sleeping bag. I've hiked with a ULA OHM 2.0 now for about 2000 miles and never felt I needed any extra padding; the existing pad does just fine. If yours does not, perhaps you are packing your ULA not quite right? Not sure what "right" is other than not to have anything hard near my back that could be felt through the existing padding.
I got into the habit of using my prolite as supplemental padding on the JMT where I used my Bearikade canister. In that situation, the supplemental padding was noticeable. And then it became a habit to pack like this even when not using a canister. So, I think that the Circuits padding should be fine and I might have to just use my sit pad as supplemental padding when using my Bearikade on the PCT... I definitely would not want the Bearikade's edge rubbing against my neo air, inflated or deflated. The Bearikades have an edge at the top and bottom that could cause abrasion, although I never felt like it would be a problem for the prolite it seems more likely to be a problem for the neo air.