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lobster
10-21-2005, 22:07
required to be considered an elite hiker?

Spartan Hiker
10-21-2005, 22:08
required to be considered an elite hiker? By whose standard?

SGT Rock
10-21-2005, 22:09
required to be considered an elite hiker?


First define an elite hiker. I would consider an elite hiker is someone that thinks they are better than everyone else.

SavageLlama
10-21-2005, 22:23
I think the real questions are what part of the trail and how much weight? If it's southern Maine and 50 lbs then I might be impressed.

jackiebolen
10-22-2005, 14:03
If someone did that I would think they were either crazy or stupid or hiking extremely easy terrain with support. I definitely wouldn't think they were better than the average hiker out there.

They would probably have to take 2 or 3 days off and so if you think of it that way, 80 miles over 4 or 5 days really isn't that impressive.

Jack Tarlin
10-22-2005, 15:13
Some hikers do bigger miles than others.

Some hikers seem to think that doing big miles somehow makes them "special."

Some hikers spend a lot of time bragging about their high mileage, their miles per hour, hours hiked during the day, etc.

Bottom line, is there is no such thing as an "elite" hiker, ever.

Sly
10-22-2005, 15:38
Is it me or does lobster ask the dumbest questions? Troll-like at best...

lobster
10-22-2005, 15:42
Sly,

I thought the only dumb question was the one that wasn't asked?

I guess you were never a school teacher!

Sly
10-22-2005, 16:07
I thought the only dumb question was the one that wasn't asked?


Well, you proved that theory wrong, good job! :rolleyes:

SGT Rock
10-22-2005, 16:12
Sly,

I thought the only dumb question was the one that wasn't asked?

I guess you were never a school teacher!

Well there is also a saying that there are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions :p

Just kidding.

There are folks that ask questions that they already know the answer to, and are just trying to be smartasses. Are you by chance in that catagory lobster? Be honest :jump

saimyoji
10-22-2005, 18:50
First define an elite hiker. I would consider an elite hiker is someone that thinks they are better than everyone else.
i think this would qualify as an 'elitist' hiker. Elite to me means best of the best. Totally subjective on what you consider to be the best.

SGT Rock
10-22-2005, 18:58
Well if someone thought themselves to be elite, wouldn't that make them elitist? :datz

saimyoji
10-22-2005, 19:31
Well if someone thought themselves to be elite, wouldn't that make them elitist? :datz
Sure, but that's not what lobster asked, or what you posted. Did I misread your post?

I would consider an elite hiker is someone that thinks they are better than everyone else.

An elite hiker, to me, would be someone who is indeed top notch, regardless of what they think of others. An elitist hiker would be as described above.

saimyoji
10-22-2005, 19:33
e·lite or é·lite http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Delite) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-lhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif, http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gif-lhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif)
n. pl. elite or e·lites

A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: “In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them” (Times Literary Supplement).
The best or most skilled members of a group: <cite>the football team's elite.</cite>

Moxie00
10-22-2005, 20:15
I've known fast hikers, slow hikers, light weight hikers, trail runners, hikers that make a slug seem fast, heavyweight hikers, fat, thin, tall, and short hikers. Ive seen little children hikers and very old hikers with bulging blue veins and heavy packs. I don't know what an elite hiker is but I guess they are all unique and in their own way and accomplishing what they do makes them elite. I have never yet met a hiker that I feel has the right to sit in judgement of the accomplishments of other hikers but I have met several who think they have the right to do so.

Curt
10-22-2005, 20:28
There is a Chinese proverb that goes like this: Ask what you don't know and you will be stupid for one minute, don't ask and you will be stupid the rest of your life.

saimyoji
10-22-2005, 20:29
Once as I hiked the Dunnfield Creek trail in DWG I encountered a church group of 20-30 teens plus a blind woman. As I hiked up, the blind woman and guides were making their way down. I don't know if this would be elite, but certainly this woman took on the greatest challenge I've seen hiking.

Sly
10-22-2005, 20:52
There is a Chinese proverb that goes like this: Ask what you don't know and you will be stupid for one minute, don't ask and you will be stupid the rest of your life.

I thought it was "ask a stupid question and get a stupid answer!"

Moxie00
10-22-2005, 21:44
There is a Chinese proverb that goes like this: Ask what you don't know and you will be stupid for one minute, don't ask and you will be stupid the rest of your life.If you ask what you do know just to make yourself look good you WILL look stupid in the eyes of all others. (and I'm not even Chinese but I can eat with chopsticks)
:dance :dance :dance :dance :sun :dance :dance :dance :dance :banana :dance :dance :dance :dance

SGT Rock
10-22-2005, 23:10
Sure, but that's not what lobster asked, or what you posted. Did I misread your post?

I would consider an elite hiker is someone that thinks they are better than everyone else.

An elite hiker, to me, would be someone who is indeed top notch, regardless of what they think of others. An elitist hiker would be as described above.
I guess my point really is that hiking is not a competitive sport of any sort. It could be argued that the reason for hiking is not speed, distance, weight, or whatever. To decide that there is such a thing as an elite hiker in the first place, and then to try to achive whatever standard one decides that is, is simply trying to set a standard to be better than eveyone else. Like the guy at work that trys to turn eveything into a competition where there isn't anything to compete over just so he can feel superior to everyone else.

So, to think there is even such a thing as an elite hiker makes one an elitist.

calearn
10-23-2005, 05:10
My working definition of an elite distance hiker is someone who has hiked at least one single season 2000 mile+ thru hike and also hiked the Triple Crown or equivalent in mileage/terrain/etc. Speed and daily distance don't enter into the picture. Speed and daily distance are in the realm of trail running, not hiking.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2005, 08:36
I eat the *** out of pork lo mein.

Peaks
10-23-2005, 09:11
Some hikers do bigger miles than others.

Some hikers seem to think that doing big miles somehow makes them "special."

Some hikers spend a lot of time bragging about their high mileage, their miles per hour, hours hiked during the day, etc.

Bottom line, is there is no such thing as an "elite" hiker, ever.

I might add that hikers who brag about their high mileage days never seem to mention that they then took the next day or two off to recover.

It isn't big mileage days that get you to Maine.

Like others, I would not consider certain hikers "elite."

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 09:16
How about this: an elite hiker is someone that hikes and doesn't feel the need to point out miles, days off, accomplishments, or anything. An elite hiker is one that gives sound advice and encouragement to others.

Whistler
10-23-2005, 09:56
Rock, that sounds more like a 'nice person' than 'elite hiker'. A person can be 'elite' outside of a competitive environment, you just have to ask "by what standard?" I think 'hiker' is too general a term to work with in the first place. Distance hiker, or speed hiker, or chill hiker, then we're getting somewhere. No values without ends, no evaluations without goals.
Being a member of the elite is okay. Not being a member of the elite is okay, too. The elite are only elite for those who actually care. The only problems come when one side generates/ perceives a problem with the other.
-Mark

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 10:00
Being a member of the elite is okay. Not being a member of the elite is okay, too. The elite are only elite for those who actually care. The only problems come when one side generates/ perceives a problem with the other.
-Mark

Naw, I totally disagree. I could consider someone that does 40 mile days missing the point. So I could consider that far from elite. Someone that hikes fast - same thing. How about an elite hiker is someone that rises above putting a score on that sort of crap. That would be truly elite.

Whistler
10-23-2005, 10:18
Naw, I totally disagree. I could consider someone that does 40 mile days missing the point. So I could consider that far from elite. Someone that hikes fast - same thing. How about an elite hiker is someone that rises above putting a score on that sort of crap. That would be truly elite.Well I counter-disagree!:p

But seriously--you are doing exactly what I suggest: setting a standard ["40 mile days is missing the point" or "someone that rises above that sort of crap"], weighing the evidence ["Dude X does 40 mile days" or "Chick A bragged about her 50"], and applying the standard ["I consider that far from elite"].

What I'm saying, and what you acknowledge--is that, yes, there can be elite. But it only matters to those who care. That is, those who are setting the standards, whether it be those in the record-setting community who care about "mileage per day" or those who want to maximize pleasant interatction and shared enjoyment and care more about "humility per interaction." I suppose that what it boils down to is what you mean by "hiker"--and I'm sure many have their own idea.
-Mark

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 10:30
Well I counter-disagree!:p

But seriously--you are doing exactly what I suggest: setting a standard ["40 mile days is missing the point" or "someone that rises above that sort of crap"], weighing the evidence ["Dude X does 40 mile days" or "Chick A bragged about her 50"], and applying the standard ["I consider that far from elite"].

Actually you missed mine. I don't think there is a standard and to set one is abatrary bull**** to set someone as elite which actually has no point of reference to start from. Unlike Football, Baseball, Basketball, NASCAR, etc. Hiking is not a sport of winners and statistics. I was not attempting to set a standard as you imply, I was attempting to show how any abitrary standard that could be set to make someone elite is bull**** to begin with.



What I'm saying, and what you acknowledge--is that, yes, there can be elite. But it only matters to those who care. That is, those who are setting the standards, whether it be those in the record-setting community who care about "mileage per day" or those who want to maximize pleasant interatction and shared enjoyment and care more about "humility per interaction." I suppose that what it boils down to is what you mean by "hiker"--and I'm sure many have their own idea.
-Mark
So who will be the record setting body? The ATC has already stated that they don't recognize any such thing. I know the BMTA feels the same way. ALDHA doesn't seem to want to do anything like this. How about this: quit worrying about such petty and inconcequential "standards" and hike. Wouldn't that be cool :D

saimyoji
10-23-2005, 11:02
I'm an elite hiker. I have more fun when hiking than anybody else. I'm not an elitist hiker because I don't think I'm better than anyone. Except the guy with his dog. ;)

Whistler
10-23-2005, 11:14
Y'see, I'm not worried about standards. I'm not offended by speed hikers or by those who sleep in. But I recognize people do have values, that they have priorities, and that often times these values and priorities are shared with others.

People that like opera say that Pavarotti is [er, was in his prime] an elite singer. William Faulkner was an elite writer, to those who care about Southern literature. Some people are the best of the best only in their tiny niche or field; in rare cases, some are good enough to be considered brilliant, elite, a cut above, by the rest of the world through their incredible impact [see: Buddha, Aristotle, etc. etc.].

The elite aren't set by arbitrary standards, nor are they petty or inconsequential. They are either objective: miles, days, whatever; or they are subjective: outdoor ethic, humility, appreciation and advocacy of nature, etc.

Asking about record-setting bodies misses the point, because records aren't really the point. I think yes, there are hikers who are elite. And it is absolutely important to recognize those who have made contributions to human endeavors--whether by doing the superhuman, or by spreading gospel of Nature, or whatever other worthy task. To say that 'Brian Robinson didn't do anything special, he just walked a lot,' is laughable. To say that 'John Muir isn't such a big deal, he just wrote a lot' is equally absurd.

I say without reserve that those two are elite hikers. But opera lovers don't give a s***. And that's fine, I don't like their tenors, anyway. Elite hikers do not fail to exist because there are no measurements--they fail to exist for you because of the way you have defined "eliteness" for a hiker: "there is no standard." If that's your thing, that's fine. But I think you're missing out.

My argument: the audience, the currently involved, those who care, determine who is elite in the field they care about--and especially, those who look back and say "Wow, what an impressive accomplishment/ legacy/ impact." Sometimes the impact only hits the small opera/ literature/ hiking community--sometimes people can break out and impact the world. What I'm thinking "elite" means is someone who sets new standards, or visions, or goals for the rest to follow--a hero, maybe. Heroes are important and are absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, even if they are restrained to our small world of hiking.

I guess my point about the "elite" in general, what I'm getting at is: to truly admire is to be inspired.

-Mark

Youngblood
10-23-2005, 11:26
I admire the super elite, but not as much as the ultra super elite... the elite just don't do all that much for me because there is always something, or someone, better. :D

Youngblood

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 11:37
The elite aren't set by arbitrary standards, nor are they petty or inconsequential. They are either objective: miles, days, whatever; or they are subjective: outdoor ethic, humility, appreciation and advocacy of nature, etc.

How about atire, drinking, good looks?



Asking about record-setting bodies misses the point, because records aren't really the point.

Actually I set that as part of the answer because you brought it up.



I think yes, there are hikers who are elite. And it is absolutely important to recognize those who have made contributions to human endeavors--whether by doing the superhuman, or by spreading gospel of Nature, or whatever other worthy task. To say that 'Brian Robinson didn't do anything special, he just walked a lot,' is laughable. To say that 'John Muir isn't such a big deal, he just wrote a lot' is equally absurd.

Actually, what exactly did he do for the hiking community except walk a lot of miles and advertise the fact? I bet there are people that have walked more and could care less about being elite. And to that point, what does walking alot actually do to "contribute" to the hiking community? Probably the people that do the most to improve hiking for you aren't bing recognized - trail maintainers. Voulenterer trail workers at the ATC. Financial contributers. Get it? Elite hikers - a joke. Just whey do we need elite hikers anyway? I bet Earl Schaffer, John Muir would laugh at the idea. No, elite hiker becomes a competition to see who can get into the club. Elitists.

How about just ask how to become a trail legend?

the goat
10-23-2005, 12:34
i can't f'ing believe that you actually got so many people to bite on this thread and turn it into such a point of contention:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

Whistler
10-23-2005, 14:36
Actually, what exactly did he do for the hiking community except walk a lot of miles and advertise the fact? I bet there are people that have walked more and could care less about being elite. And to that point, what does walking alot actually do to "contribute" to the hiking community? Probably the people that do the most to improve hiking for you aren't bing recognized - trail maintainers. Voulenterer trail workers at the ATC. Financial contributers. Get it? Elite hikers - a joke. Just whey do we need elite hikers anyway? I bet Earl Schaffer, John Muir would laugh at the idea. No, elite hiker becomes a competition to see who can get into the club. Elitists.
I can't think of anyone else who did a single-year Triple Crown [keep truckin' Squeaky--make this post outdated]. That in itself is a gift for the hiking community: making possibilities known. Who knows--there might have been a dozen people that did a calendar TC before him--but they didn't utter a peep. How's that for contribution? What about community? What about sharing?

On the other hand, thousands of people were able to keep up and follow Robinson's progress. It's an example of a pretty regular guy who applied himself and his resources, planned and dreamed for a couple years, then plugged away and showed grit when it counted. And he does work to promote [lightweight] hiking and other sports, the PCTA, sharing at ALDHA--sharing his stories and showing what schmoes like you and I can do.

Your comments on maintainers, volunteers, and donors are on point. For practical, everyday purposes, they make hiking life easier. But--not much more. They don't encourage a multitude of people in a deep way. Are trail maintainers breaking any new ground? [ha...] Have they inspired? Maybe they aren't celebrated because very few stand out. Donors are great, we should be thankful for them. But--what's new about giving money? How does that push the envelope for human performance? Do a few dollars or a nice looking stretch of trail do that much to promote hiking or the outdoor ethic? I'm not sure, but I know I place higher value on boundary-pushing, legacy-making efforts. I'll take spectacular over mundane any day.

As for "why we need elite hikers, anyway?" Well, if you feel like that, why celebrate anything? Let's just live without values or inspiration, sure. Let's live without role models or having the grace to offer recognition for tremendous accomplishments. Sounds great. I'm not saying elite hikers are worthy of worship, or special treatment other than to make a little footnote in your heart and mind--"That was cool," or "I'd like to try that." It's important to let their powerful stories affect you, not just blow it off like another random stroll.

I think we need to recognize that some hikes are boring, some are captivating; some hikers are nice people, some are tremendous; some retread the same ground, others explore new areas; some do a fantastic hike, then go home--some do a fantastic hike, then offer their time, effort, and work to share and help others; There's a difference. I know which side I value more. If you don't feel a need to distinguish that's fine, though. Outside of this thread, it won't bother me a bit. :sun

Shaffer and Muir may laugh, sure. That's humility, that's being grounded. After all, gloating is rarely worth admiration. But my own footnotes will remain.

SGT or anyone else have comments? Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm not convinced.
-Mark

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 16:10
I can't think of anyone else who did a single-year Triple Crown [keep truckin' Squeaky--make this post outdated]. That in itself is a gift for the hiking community: making possibilities known. Who knows--there might have been a dozen people that did a calendar TC before him--but they didn't utter a peep. How's that for contribution? What about community? What about sharing?

But what exactly did he do for the community? How do you quantify what he did into elite status? Geez. Talk about reaching for straws to make a point about creating a pointless "rank" for hikers.



On the other hand, thousands of people were able to keep up and follow Robinson's progress. It's an example of a pretty regular guy who applied himself and his resources, planned and dreamed for a couple years, then plugged away and showed grit when it counted. And he does work to promote [lightweight] hiking and other sports, the PCTA, sharing at ALDHA--sharing his stories and showing what schmoes like you and I can do.

Great. He has a good story. So did Earl Schaffer. So does Grandma Gatewood. So does Model T. So do a lot of hikers. But that ain't elite.


Your comments on maintainers, volunteers, and donors are on point. For practical, everyday purposes, they make hiking life easier. But--not much more. They don't encourage a multitude of people in a deep way. Are trail maintainers breaking any new ground? [ha...] Have they inspired? Maybe they aren't celebrated because very few stand out. Donors are great, we should be thankful for them. But--what's new about giving money? How does that push the envelope for human performance? Do a few dollars or a nice looking stretch of trail do that much to promote hiking or the outdoor ethic? I'm not sure, but I know I place higher value on boundary-pushing, legacy-making efforts. I'll take spectacular over mundane any day.

And what is so special about hiking. In case you haven't ever swung a pulaski, give it a try and you will find that a heck of a lot harder. Inspiring, heck yes if you pay attention to the real hard workers. BTW, hearing someone hiked 40+ miles days and complain about how lonely doesn't really inspire much of anyone except other "competitors" who what to challenge themselves. Another example of why not to make a special catagory because it misses the point of why most people hike anyway.

Hey, since that is your new tact, then lets nominate Bill Bryson for elite hiker status. By most accounts his book probably inspired more hikers than any other single person in the last decade. He makes a great role model for people to aspire to hike like :datz



As for "why we need elite hikers, anyway?" Well, if you feel like that, why celebrate anything? Let's just live without values or inspiration, sure. Let's live without role models or having the grace to offer recognition for tremendous accomplishments. Sounds great. I'm not saying elite hikers are worthy of worship, or special treatment other than to make a little footnote in your heart and mind--"That was cool," or "I'd like to try that." It's important to let their powerful stories affect you, not just blow it off like another random stroll.

OK, so what yoiu are saying is that hiking is suffering and we need to promote some sort of system so hikers can hiker their ass off to inspire others so we can save the sport? Geez, now you are stretching it.

Yep, maybe instead of making a standard and saying "this is an elite hiker, this is the standard that we all aspire too" (which it ain't by the way - and that is a huge part of the point) we let people choose to hike or not without having to artificialy create role models.


Shaffer and Muir may laugh, sure. That's humility, that's being grounded. After all, gloating is rarely worth admiration. But my own footnotes will remain.

SGT or anyone else have comments? Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm not convinced.
-Mark
Yes, you are off base. Think about what hiking means to everyone out there and see how many actually need elite hikers. It seems the only ones that need elite hikers are the ones that want to become elite hikers so they have bragging rights. How about just humble hikers that realize it never has been about them in the first place and there is no way to turn this into a cult of personalities for idolization.

Curt
10-23-2005, 16:48
I thought it was "ask a stupid question and get a stupid answer!"
That does not sound like a proverb and does not sound like an intelligent answer to a "considered" stupid question.

lobster
10-23-2005, 17:42
Was that a togue or salmon that just nibbled on my line???

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 17:57
Hua! Lobster

Sly
10-23-2005, 18:01
Just as I thought, a troll.

Moxie00
10-23-2005, 19:59
Was that a togue or salmon that just nibbled on my line???It was a sucker!

Mags
10-24-2005, 10:59
I like my salmon with lemon and black pepper myself. Keep it simple. Makes the best food..

Mmmm...

Whistler
10-27-2005, 12:28
Alright, folks. You thought [hoped [prayed [begged]]] that this thread would die.:o

I've given the good SGT's comments some thought over the past days. In particular:
Think about what hiking means to everyone out there and see how many actually need elite hikers. It seems the only ones that need elite hikers are the ones that want to become elite hikers so they have bragging rights. How about just humble hikers that realize it never has been about them in the first place and there is no way to turn this into a cult of personalities for idolization.So, I've been thinking about what hiking means, thinking about it broadly in its non-competitive form. I acknowledge that everyone has their own particular collection of reasons for hiking. However, I think there are fundamentally shared ideas. In the end, I think hiking is about ourselves. It's not about appreciating nature, or getting in shape, or winning--those are the means. The end, I submit, is developing an experience we benefit and learn from. Hiking, like all human action, is about us. If it were not--if we were indifferent to the personal benefits of hiking--then we would not hike, but choose other activities that we did find beneficial.

Let's turn once again to the elite. There is definitely a role for hikers to make an impact on their fellow hikers, which is a facet of human nature we see in every realm of life. The fact is that some are more well-known, some have broken new ground, and some have inspired other people. I've already said that, I know, but it bears repeating. And it's not just about personalities, but about accomplishments.

With that said, is it beneficial for hikers, as a group, to put their heads together and decide who is 'elite' or not? Do recreational, non-competitive hikers, as a group, need a list of 'elite' and what it takes to get there? I'm willing to say, "No."

But as an individual, I do think it is beneficial, in any field or activity you are involved in, to understand its history, to give some thought to its major players, and come to grasp how the activity's history has changed due to their impact. I think hiking without that understanding makes for an experience that is not as rich as it could be. Playing on the company softball team is great--but I think it's an even better experience when you know the legacy of Cobb, Williams, and Mays. Being a modern Jew can be a great--but an even more rewarding practice when you understand "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax." :D

To me, that's where the value of the concept of 'elite' comes in--and that's where I'll acknowledge that "elite" is a crummy word for what I'm trying to describe. "Role model" or "leader" come closer, but not quite there.

It has to do with understanding the tradition of hiking, who's who, how it has evolved, where the frontiers are, where they were, and who changed them. Willful ignorance or denial of history, human progress, and accomplishment is a shame, on any scale, in any field. Because in the end, knowing these things makes hiking into a more finely woven, more integrated, and more valuable activity, a better learning experience for yourself. It has nothing to do with idolization--which benefits the only idol--but with appreciation, and the understanding and personal motivation that comes from it. I think we benefit from valuing.

As for the sporting, competitive, record-seeking side of hiking, I still think 'elite' is a valid concept, if only because the measure is more objective and more impersonal. I strongly disagree with SGT Rock's characterization that hikers "want to become elite hikers so they have bragging rights." Sure, there are some braggarts and jerks out there. But for the most part, it's motivated by a natural desire for success and achieving values through your own effort. But I don't think the sport-hikers are really what we're talking about.

In a rare bout of long-windedness,
-Mark

Gray Blazer
10-27-2005, 12:43
Wow, Whistler. Unlike me, there is hope for you.

SGT Rock
10-27-2005, 14:07
I've given the good SGT's comments some thought over the past days. In particular:So, I've been thinking about what hiking means, thinking about it broadly in its non-competitive form. I acknowledge that everyone has their own particular collection of reasons for hiking. However, I think there are fundamentally shared ideas. In the end, I think hiking is about ourselves. It's not about appreciating nature, or getting in shape, or winning--those are the means. The end, I submit, is developing an experience we benefit and learn from. Hiking, like all human action, is about us. If it were not--if we were indifferent to the personal benefits of hiking--then we would not hike, but choose other activities that we did find beneficial.
So if it is about yourself, then you validate the whole need for making an elite class as allowing people to get themselves recognized for being elite - elitists.


Let's turn once again to the elite. There is definitely a role for hikers to make an impact on their fellow hikers, which is a facet of human nature we see in every realm of life. The fact is that some are more well-known, some have broken new ground, and some have inspired other people. I've already said that, I know, but it bears repeating. And it's not just about personalities, but about accomplishments.
So hiking a long way in a couple of days is an accomplishment? So we should name every member of the Battan Death March an elite hiker.



With that said, is it beneficial for hikers, as a group, to put their heads together and decide who is 'elite' or not? Do recreational, non-competitive hikers, as a group, need a list of 'elite' and what it takes to get there? I'm willing to say, "No."
Good, then get off of the topic and go try to do something constructive like help a newby pick a tent:D


But as an individual, I do think it is beneficial, in any field or activity you are involved in, to understand its history, to give some thought to its major players, and come to grasp how the activity's history has changed due to their impact. I think hiking without that understanding makes for an experience that is not as rich as it could be. Playing on the company softball team is great--but I think it's an even better experience when you know the legacy of Cobb, Williams, and Mays. Being a modern Jew can be a great--but an even more rewarding practice when you understand "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax." :D

Then let the people pick their own role modles based on what charactaristics they want to emulate. Wait a sec, they do that already.


To me, that's where the value of the concept of 'elite' comes in--and that's where I'll acknowledge that "elite" is a crummy word for what I'm trying to describe. "Role model" or "leader" come closer, but not quite there.

Actually everyone is (or can be) a role model. A good Role model, a bad role model, or indifferent. Your actions in any area can make people either emulate you or decide not to be like you.


It has to do with understanding the tradition of hiking, who's who, how it has evolved, where the frontiers are, where they were, and who changed them. Willful ignorance or denial of history, human progress, and accomplishment is a shame, on any scale, in any field. Because in the end, knowing these things makes hiking into a more finely woven, more integrated, and more valuable activity, a better learning experience for yourself. It has nothing to do with idolization--which benefits the only idol--but with appreciation, and the understanding and personal motivation that comes from it. I think we benefit from valuing.
Good thoughts. But how does any of this change the idea of Elite hikers being a needed catagory?


As for the sporting, competitive, record-seeking side of hiking, I still think 'elite' is a valid concept, if only because the measure is more objective and more impersonal. I strongly disagree with SGT Rock's characterization that hikers "want to become elite hikers so they have bragging rights." Sure, there are some braggarts and jerks out there. But for the most part, it's motivated by a natural desire for success and achieving values through your own effort. But I don't think the sport-hikers are really what we're talking about.

Actually that is all it is if you think about it. You already agree that everything is subjective in hiking, and that not everyone wants to emulate the same role models. You have also agreed that individuals are only in it for individual goals. So, therefore, to make an elite hiker catagory is only a way for individuals that need to feel "superior" for achiving that goal to get artifical recognition. Basically a star or a smiley face on the teachers board. The fact is ANYONE can hike back to back 40 milers all they want. No one is stopping them, many of us encourage them along and will even run a support team for them. But there is no need to suddenly give them some sort of status, well other than someone wants to create an artificial recognition system to have others recognize something they could probably care less about or give more than a seconds thought.

You want to do something hard and get recognized for it, go to Ranger School.
[/quote]
In a rare bout of long-windedness,
-Mark[/QUOTE]

Lone Wolf
01-31-2008, 16:48
required to be considered an elite hiker?

absolutely

A-Train
01-31-2008, 16:50
absolutely

Particularly boring week?

Lone Wolf
01-31-2008, 16:51
Particularly boring week?

absolutely

4eyedbuzzard
01-31-2008, 16:59
Is hiking 40 miles in back to back days required to be considered an elite hiker?

It used to be 40. The new standard is 72.5 :rolleyes:

rafe
01-31-2008, 16:59
gotta be desperate, dredging up old "Lobster" threads...

CaseyB
01-31-2008, 17:04
Lone Wolf's Elite Thread Dredging Service, Inc.

Deadeye
01-31-2008, 17:07
required to be considered an elite hiker?

Who gives a rats a$$? HYOH.

Damn, I broke my promise to only say constructive things.

Lone Wolf
01-31-2008, 17:07
you're too easy

Mags
01-31-2008, 17:11
l33t |-|1|<3r dUD3 ???

Deadeye
01-31-2008, 17:12
you're too easy

Maybe, but I sure am cheap!

earlyriser26
01-31-2008, 17:22
required to be considered an elite hiker?
I took 5 days to hike 40 miles in Maine once. As I recall it was one of my favorite hikes. I would even call it an elite hike. I don't know what a elite hiker would be.... Hope I don't ever meet any.....:rolleyes:

Kirby
01-31-2008, 17:29
This must be revive old threads week or something, a lot of old ones are popping up again.

But they are all new to me, so I enjoy them.

Kirby

JAK
01-31-2008, 17:42
That's an interesting argument Rock. Opens up a can of worms.

I think all you are really saying is that one should not get too caught up in hiking as a purely athletic pursuit, or as a purely intellectual pursuit, or as a purely aesthetic pursuit, or even as a combination of all three; without also thinking of hiking as a spiritual pursuit. Nay, not so much even a spiritual pursuit or quest.

More that hiking in its simplest and most essential form; without the pretence of being an athletic, aesthetic, intellectual, or even spiritual endeavour; can be a most natural means to achieve a more balanced physical and spiritual existence on this earth, amidst all the madness that surrounds us.

But I think what you are saying is keep it simple stupid. :)

JAK
01-31-2008, 17:45
Oops. I guess the can of worms had already spilled as I was writing my post.

JAK
01-31-2008, 17:50
Actually I guess it had spilled over two years ago.
I was responding to Rocks post #20, 10-23-2005, 00:10 . LOL

JAK
01-31-2008, 17:52
Does driving under the AT and then posting 2,684 post on WB constitute elitism?

mudhead
01-31-2008, 18:10
l33t |-|1|<3r dUD3 ???

How bout translating that for me?

Non geek speak, if possible.

ed bell
01-31-2008, 18:14
Does driving under the AT and then posting 2,684 post on WB constitute elitism?When are you gonna dip your toe in the pool, JAK?:)

nitewalker
01-31-2008, 18:18
all hikers are elite. we are in a class of our own.:D

1. ward chip leonard
2. earl schafer
3. andy skurka
4. bryan robinson
5.wingfoot
6.emma gatewood[68,69 and a sec hike at 70]
7.baltimore jack
8.george miller[72 yr old thruhiker in 1952]
9. bob sparks[5 end to enders one at 70yr old]
10. jen pharr[ lt record holder]
11. stumpknocker[ always on the trail]
12. l wolf
13. roy

these are some folks that i consider some of the real hikers who may or may not qualify as elite hikers....many hikes and many miles bring to our faces big wide smiles:D

ScottP
01-31-2008, 18:18
Someone who wants to hike fast and hikes consistend 40's is an elite hiker.

Someone who loves eating good food and can cook gourmet meals on the trail is an elite hiker.

A family who wants to enjoy the woods as a family and can safely deal with children on the trail are all elite hikers.

Someone who wants to have a drink at every bar at every town stop along the AT and manages to do so is a very elite hiker.

Someone who wants to thru-hike to lose weight and loses 50 lbs is an elite hiker.

Someone who wants to take beautiful pictures and ends up with an awesome book of photos is an elite hiker.

etc.

Mags
01-31-2008, 18:19
How bout translating that for me?

Non geek speak, if possible.


Elite hiker dude...

http://www.writtenhumor.com/1337-translator.html

Mags
01-31-2008, 18:21
Someone who wants to hike fast and hikes consistend 40's is an elite hiker.

Someone who loves eating good food and can cook gourmet meals on the trail is an elite hiker.

A family who wants to enjoy the woods as a family and can safely deal with children on the trail are all elite hikers.

Someone who wants to have a drink at every bar at every town stop along the AT and manages to do so is a very elite hiker.

Someone who wants to thru-hike to lose weight and loses 50 lbs is an elite hiker.

Someone who wants to take beautiful pictures and ends up with an awesome book of photos is an elite hiker.

etc.

...and that about sums it up. Don't forget the trail workers who hike in, too. They are VERY elite.

mudhead
01-31-2008, 18:25
7H4nK5.

Kirby
01-31-2008, 18:50
W0w, 7H15 15 1n73|23571n6, 1 7H1nK 1 w1LL p057 L1K3 7H15 f|20M n0w 0n.

Kirby

NICKTHEGREEK
01-31-2008, 19:20
An elite hiker is someone who can do back to back 40 mile days on his own property

Bearpaw
01-31-2008, 19:51
1) It's just walking......

2) The only folks who are likely to call other hikers "elite" are those who haven't figured out #1 yet.

3) The only hikers likely to call themselves "elite" are those who have forgotten #1........

10-K
01-31-2008, 20:40
Someone who wants to hike fast and hikes consistend 40's is an elite hiker.

Someone who loves eating good food and can cook gourmet meals on the trail is an elite hiker.

A family who wants to enjoy the woods as a family and can safely deal with children on the trail are all elite hikers.

Someone who wants to have a drink at every bar at every town stop along the AT and manages to do so is a very elite hiker.

Someone who wants to thru-hike to lose weight and loses 50 lbs is an elite hiker.

Someone who wants to take beautiful pictures and ends up with an awesome book of photos is an elite hiker.

etc.


Someone with a candle lantern is an elite hiker.

Deadeye
01-31-2008, 21:34
(I can't believe I'm sinking this low...)

Is that 40 miles in 2 consecutive days, or 2 consecutive 40-mile days?:-?

I still don't give a rat's a$$, but I want to be sure just what it is that I don't give a rat's a$$ about.

Here, have a stupid banana.:banana

Grumpy Ol' Pops
01-31-2008, 22:02
Well there is also a saying that there are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions :p


If anyone is wise enough to ask the questions, can they really be labelled as stupid?

Whenever I have a new group of students beginning an Engineering class, I always tell them that the only really ignorant person is the one who will not ask a question when the answer is unknown or unclear.

mark.k.watson
01-31-2008, 22:36
How about Lewis and Clark, and their men heading over the Rockies. Elite hikers? My vote would be yup!

BradMT
01-31-2008, 22:55
required to be considered an elite hiker?

That's one of the strangest things I've read in a while...

BradMT
01-31-2008, 22:56
An elite hiker is someone who can do back to back 40 mile days on his own property

Now that right there is funny!

Bearpaw
01-31-2008, 22:57
How about Lewis and Clark, and their men heading over the Rockies. Elite hikers? My vote would be yup!

Lewis and Clark bought horses from the Shonone. No major long-distance hiking involved.

Horses were how any western explorer travelled in most cases. Your western travellers lived and died by their horses. Which is why horse theft was a hanging offense in most jurisdictions. It was the equivalent of killing the victim because they were stranded.

mark.k.watson
02-01-2008, 01:14
Lewis and Clark bought horses from the Shonone. No major long-distance hiking involved.

Horses were how any western explorer travelled in most cases. Your western travellers lived and died by their horses. Which is why horse theft was a hanging offense in most jurisdictions. It was the equivalent of killing the victim because they were stranded.

Only problem with this statement is that they packed their horses and ate them as they headed over the hills.
When they finally arrived on the western side of the mountainst they were out of horses, darn near, starved, sick, but it is still considered the greatest forced march ever.
Yes they did buy, trade, for horses from the Shonone, but they walked this distance.
Regardless if they rode or walked they had great big #@!!$ and this was one heck, elite, feat.

GGS2
02-01-2008, 02:03
Ever consider that a lot of aboriginal people did this sort of trek as a matter of course? Sometimes for resource harvesting (salt, meat, other materials and trade goods) and sometimes as messengers as emissaries. Often hunting trips covered vast distances as herds moved through, or as seasons changed. L&C were celebrated white men, but they were relative amateurs in crossing the continent. They depended on the people whose land they crossed not just for supplies, but also for guides. So did all the other great white explorers like McKenzie, Thompson, Frazer and others. What we celebrate as pioneering feats must have seemed simply foolish and crazy to the native people they passed on their way. Yet they too suffered cruelly when forced by whites to travel on forced marches. It is a very old story: fight against the trail and the trail will exact a high price for your passage. Move with it, and you will move easily. We come from our heated and cooled houses with our internal combustion engine vehicles, and we think we can know the ways of the trail. One of the fruits of a true thru-hike may be that it is long enough to begin to hear the voice of the land as you pass through it. But many simply begin to yearn for the end, the closer the come to it. I once told a woman whose husband was a long distance canoe trekker that when you go out into the wild you must be ready not to come back. She was horrified. I guess she thought I meant to take her husband away from her. She couldn't understand that you cannot get the gift you seek until you give everything you have. That is what is called the great give-away, or the potlach. Go leave yourself on the trail and see what the trail will give you in return.

weedeater64
02-01-2008, 07:22
Just curious, why do ya'll need people to donate money in order for you to get off a couch, go outside and walk?

weedeater64
02-01-2008, 07:42
(I can't believe I'm sinking this low...)

Is that 40 miles in 2 consecutive days, or 2 consecutive 40-mile days?:-?

I still don't give a rat's a$$, but I want to be sure just what it is that I don't give a rat's a$$ about.

Here, have a stupid banana.:banana

that made me laugh really hard

Mags
02-01-2008, 13:24
Lewis and Clark bought horses from the Shonone. No major long-distance hiking involved.

Horses were how any western explorer travelled in most cases. Your western

When going up (!!!!) the Missouri River, Clark would often lead the boats. Lewis? He would walk along the banks and up the bluffs while doing surveys and such. He (and his dog Seaman) would often hike 20+ MPD.

(A bit of a L&C buff. :) )

Gray Blazer
02-01-2008, 13:42
Stonewall Jackson and his troops were probably some of the most elitist hikers of their day. They could move so fast on forced marches that they became know as foot cavalry. I don't remember the mileage per day, but I remember it was staggering during the Shennandoah Valley Campaign of the Civil War. Mother of Jefferson Davis!!


Seaman is a funny name for a dog. There's a joke there, but I've already lost too many points this week.

Gray Blazer
02-01-2008, 13:45
[quote=Deadeye;519321](I can't believe I'm sinking this low...)

Is that 40 miles in 2 consecutive days, or 2 consecutive 40-mile days?:-?

I still don't give a rat's a$$, but I want to be sure just what it is that I don't give a rat's a$$ about.

Here, have a stupid banana.:banana[/quoye]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Where's Clured when you need him. Dancing bananas are infantile.....:banana:bse:clap:dance:jump:datz

JAK
02-01-2008, 13:48
Does driving under the AT and then posting 2,684 post on WB constitute elitism?


When are you gonna dip your toe in the pool, JAK?:)

How many miles would constitute a toe?
My big toe might be about a mile compared to my body weight.
Now by length, which is probably more appropriate, it would be about 60 miles.

Hmmm? I think I might do the IAT first, from Mount Carleton.
This year maybe, ending with a climb of Mount Katahdin.

jhick
02-01-2008, 14:20
Once as I hiked the Dunnfield Creek trail in DWG I encountered a church group of 20-30 teens plus a blind woman. As I hiked up, the blind woman and guides were making their way down. I don't know if this would be elite, but certainly this woman took on the greatest challenge I've seen hiking.

I saw a guy with 2 prosthetic legs, from the knees down hiking. He had a giant full pack, and was moving at a pretty good pace even for someone with their legs. AND, this was on the infamous PA rocks that so many cry about. I didn't get to chat with him, he zoomed by our camp.

excuses
02-01-2008, 23:44
in todays society we all win something, that must make us all elite (at something)!

Montego
02-02-2008, 00:38
I'm elite. On my last backpack trip, I only fell twice :D

ed bell
02-02-2008, 01:04
.......
Hmmm? I think I might do the IAT first, from Mount Carleton.
This year maybe, ending with a climb of Mount Katahdin.Makes sense. I live close to the first 500 miles of the AT. Start close to home. I do have the advantage of 365 days to hit the trail. I would imagine a slightly shorter window up there, considering daylight, snowfall and windchill.;)