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jdc5294
11-18-2014, 15:58
This is a thought I've had in my head for a while, thought I'd get some feedback. Probably not a new argument.

First off, I'm a diehard HYOH guy. I've never judged if someone does a thru in 3 months or section hikes over 10 years to finish the AT, and it doesn't matter to me if your pack weight averages 8 pounds or 80. If you're enjoying yourself, good on ya. You're no less or more of a backpacker based on those or other attributes of your hike (I suppose besides yellow-blazing, but that's another thread).

I just discovered this thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/106520-15-year-old-girl-youngest-ever-to-complete-an-AT-thru-hike about a 15 year old girl who completed a thru last year. Awesome story, regardless of whether she really was "solo" and whatever. Good for her. But I saw some people debating about whether she really didn't slackpack at all, and that evolved to what constitutes slackpacking. It ticked the pet peeve of mine where some call others less of a hiker/backpacker because of percieved differences in physical difficulty on their hike.

Slackpacking means you shed a majority of your weight for a time and get your pack delivered to you at a road crossing further along the trail. So you're just carrying less weight for a part or all of the day.

Cool.

But my pack weighs (way) more when I leave town then when I come into the next one because I've eaten most or all of my food. Am I slackpacking near the end of that stretch in the wilderness? Most (including myself) would say of course not, so that means that the definition of slackpacking means you're no longer carrying all of your base weight for the day.

Cool.

But base weights differ between hikers, right? My base weight on my 2012 thru was 13 pounds. I met a guy who was around 18 pounds. Was I slackpacking compared to him? I met a guy who was down to 8 pounds. Was I more grizzled wilderness bear grylls super hiker-man then he was? I don't believe so, but that's just my opinion.

By that strain of reasoning, no one is less of a hiker even if they only have a poncho and an Aquafina water bottle with them for 2,184 miles (or whatever it is this year). Can we stop only calling the ones who never slackpack "real backpackers"? Because I've heard that way too much. For anyone who disagrees, have fun going up Katahdin with your 55 pound load that looks straight out of 1965. -endrant-

Starchild
11-18-2014, 16:12
Slack packing is taking a day hike with appropriate gear (no overnight gear) for such a thing, in the course of a long distance hike. It does not mean you advanced your pack ahead (but you could), as you may be coming back for it later that day. There are many opportunities to slack where you stay 2 nights in a town and slack between two town approaches.

No going into town with a lighter pack because you depleted your supplies is not a slackpack by any definition that I am aware of. Perhaps if you abandoned your overnight gear to rebuy it in town, or got someoen to carry it for you - then that would be a slackpack.

To me if you don't slackpack during your thru you are missing out on a aspect of what the AT is. That is the hiker's choice, but (again for me) slackpacking is meant to be part of the AT experience. YMMV

WingedMonkey
11-18-2014, 16:59
To me if you don't slackpack during your thru you are missing out on a aspect of what the AT is. That is the hiker's choice, but (again for me) slackpacking is meant to be part of the AT experience. YMMV

Didn't you slack your first or second day out of Springer?

Starchild
11-18-2014, 17:39
Didn't you slack your first or second day out of Springer?

Day #3 actually, Woody Gap to Mtn Crossing as that is when Splash had to leave me to drive back home to NY and she advanced my pack the 10 miles.

kofritz
11-18-2014, 17:44
I plan to slack Hut to Hut. I'm of the opinion as long as you walk the miles, what difference does it make.

Coffee
11-18-2014, 17:50
Everyone has their own goals. For thru hiking, my primary goal is to hike from one endpoint to the other without interruption and has nothing at all to do with what I am carrying. I only want to carry the gear necessary for a particular hike. If I can put together logical segments where I only carry a day pack, and I am ready to deal with the logistical and/or cost issues, I will not hesitate to do that. The main use of slackpacking for me so far was day hiking between Breckenridge and Copper Mountain when I thru hiked the Colorado Trail. I spent two nights in Breckenridge and used what was initially going to be a zero day to do the day hike instead. Easy public transportation made it a no brainer. I don't believe that my thru hike was any less of a thru hike because I day hiked one segment, and more importantly, I don't care if anyone else thinks that it somehow "invalidated" my thru hike. Generally, I am too frugal to take advantage of slackpacking opportunities where I would have to pay someone to shuttle me or my pack but if I can do it for free, I'm going to jump at it.

TEXMAN
11-18-2014, 18:04
When I attempted my THRU in 2009 I stopped a few miles from Uncle Johnnies and hitched into town ,... I had a terrible head cold and was bummed out....
The next day Johnnie drove me back to the trail and I slack packed back to the hostel ....... Most enjoyable day I had in a longtime...

Recharged my batteries so I could stay on the trail another 500 miles

Dogwood
11-18-2014, 18:24
To the OP -Not being nasty just noting that you said you are a HYOH advocate. If this is as true as you said I would think you wouldn't be so concerned(peeved - irritated, angry, annoyed) as you are.

rickb
11-18-2014, 18:32
I plan to slack Hut to Hut. I'm of the opinion as long as you walk the miles, what difference does it make.

Why do you have to walk the miles!

Why not just enjoy your time however you want, even if it is in one place. Are the MATC caretakers somehow less than you because they spend their summers in one spot!!!

I dare say this kind of judgemental post is most off putting.



(Just kidding.)

Just Bill
11-18-2014, 18:46
Not that it matters-
When I used to teach, the simple question of "what is backpacking" was common.
My simple answer- when you set out with what you need to spend the night.

That could be a knife and firestarter, that could be a full kit- depending on your skillset and goals.
It's up to you what it means, weight or details don't really matter- only your goal.
For some the goal is to carry all they need from end to end.
For some the goal is to carry all they want from end to end.
For some it's simply to cover every mile of the trail.
For some it's to have an adventure to travel from Georgia to Maine.

Meet your goal and it will be a good trip.

gumball
11-18-2014, 20:18
Don't worry about what others think. Really. Hike your own hike.

oldwetherman
11-18-2014, 20:21
I've slack packed several times. Probably a total of a hundred miles or so. It was a nice break from carrying my normal load. The only drawback to doing it that I could see is that I felt so "light" that I felt
compelled to hike faster and do more miles. I was just as tired, maybe even more so, at the end of the day. It is a nice change on a thru hike or a long section hike though. IMHO the miles are still the miles no matter how you hike them.

shakey_snake
11-18-2014, 20:36
This is a thought I've had in my head for a while, thought I'd get some feedback. Probably not a new argument.

First off, I'm a diehard HYOH guy. I've never judged if someone does a thru in 3 months or section hikes over 10 years to finish the AT, and it doesn't matter to me if your pack weight averages 8 pounds or 80. If you're enjoying yourself, good on ya. You're no less or more of a backpacker based on those or other attributes of your hike (I suppose besides yellow-blazing, but that's another thread).

I just discovered this thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/106520-15-year-old-girl-youngest-ever-to-complete-an-AT-thru-hike about a 15 year old girl who completed a thru last year. Awesome story, regardless of whether she really was "solo" and whatever. Good for her. But I saw some people debating about whether she really didn't slackpack at all, and that evolved to what constitutes slackpacking. It ticked the pet peeve of mine where some call others less of a hiker/backpacker because of percieved differences in physical difficulty on their hike.

Slackpacking means

I stopped reading right here. I've read enough of these threads to know that whatever immediately follows after those last two words is going to be stupid.

I'd explain it this way. My wife is vegetarian. She doesn't believe that modern factory farming cares enough about the welfare of the animals and by extension refuses to consume animal products. I love her and respect her choice and even commiserate with her in that feeling, but don't abstain similarly. She has no issues cooking meat for me--she makes a damn mean meatloaf, similarly, I have no qualms eating vegetarian meals every so often, which is maybe about half the time.

However, one evening we had breakfast for dinner. Now, I love a hearty breakfast. Fresh fruit, eggs, toast with peanut butter, a big glass of milk, coffee and--the main event--biscuits with country sausage gravy. Nothing's more comforting than coming home from a long day at work to a nice breakfast! The problem was when I took a bite. That was not sausage. What the **** was this in my mouth. Why is she putting it on her plate? I was told it was sausage. When I asked, I was told the "sausage" was made out of a combination of black beans, red lentils and quinoa. -_-

I guess my point is this, hike whatever hike you want--but stop trying to screw around with basic definitions of crap no one really cares about. There's enough ******* lawyers and sleazy politicos to fill the world with piles of gawd-awful and empty verbiage that I don't need someone strawmaning on about slackpacking. Just keep the meat in sausage and enjoy your trip down the trail of life.

MuddyWaters
11-18-2014, 20:47
The only thing that matters, is what matters to you, as the hiker.


Some peoples hikes are harder by choices, Some peoples hikes are harder by their principles, and some peoples hikes are harder by stupidity.

However, when discussing hikes, differentiating between different activities frames it for a better understanding of what was, or wasn't, involved. Beyond that, its all just personal.

Malto
11-18-2014, 20:59
This is a thought I've had in my head for a while......

i believe you thought way too much about it.

squeezebox
11-18-2014, 21:03
So let me open another can of worms. Blue blazing ! If you take 1 blue blaze to a shelter or lookout and a different 1 back to the trail. and miss a couple of white blazes in the process, are you suddenly not a thru hiker? And there are the bad weather blue blazes.
Oh yea! and aqua blazing Shendoah?
So if you slack back, blue blaze, aqua blaze, yellow blaze, flip flop, or skip the Smokies because of your dog, just fess up and be at peace with it.

MuddyWaters
11-18-2014, 21:43
What about each step? With every step you skip over 2.5 ft of the trail. Real thruhikers would shuffle their feet so they touch all of it.

freightliner
11-18-2014, 21:56
I got to say you guys are so funny bringing up topics like this. What it really boils down to is how you really want to spend money on the trail. Slack packing costs a lot of money so if you want to do it it's still hiking the trail end to end. To me slack packing the whole trail would be the ultimate way to thru hike. Seeing how I work for a living that will never happen. I wonder how much would it cost to get four hikers and two cars together to slack the whole thing. One car at one end one car at the other end swap keys in the middle and meet at a state campground at night for a shower and civilized meal. That could be a fun and fast way to do it. Actually the more I think about it eight people could do it. That would cut the cost even more.

Starchild
11-18-2014, 22:20
.... What it really boils down to is how you really want to spend money on the trail. Slack packing costs a lot of money ....
I slackpacked maybe 150 miles or so of the AT (not exactly sure, perhaps as high as 200, or even 218.59 miles or 10%), only once did I explicitly pay for it. It was early in my thru when I hitched a ride into Hellen GA, which just felt wrong, and wanted to get back to the AT. I got quoted a price for a shuttle of $30, I asked about advancing my pack to Blueberry Patch, that would make it $35. So $5 over 2185.9 miles I don't consider 'a lot of money' + it got me a great spot at the patch as Gary counted me in when my pack arrived.

However I only took slackpacking as it came, and really didn't seek it out. Which I feel is the way for me to hike the AT, as it provides itself.

soilman
11-18-2014, 22:45
To me if you don't slackpack during your thru you are missing out on a aspect of what the AT is. That is the hiker's choice, but (again for me) slackpacking is meant to be part of the AT experience. YMMV

To me if you slackpack during your thru you are missing out on an aspect of what the AT is. Why is slackpacking meant to be a part of the AT experience? I have nothing against slackpacking. I slackpacked on my first AT hike. I chose not to slackpack on my last thru by design. I wanted to do a continuous hike south to north. I had several opportunities to slackpack and declined.

Dogwood
11-18-2014, 23:12
What about each step? With every step you skip over 2.5 ft of the trail. Real thruhikers would shuffle their feet so they touch all of it.

Now, that's funny. I came across one curmudgeon of a thru-hiker that earnestly believed he had to touch every white blaze usually with one of his his trekking poles. When I told him he missed a blaze back on a bridge abutment he hiked back, searched for it, while I stood there watching him, almost breaking down in complete laughter. He found it, touched it with a trekking pole, and then smiling broadly satisfactorily, came back to where I was, saying, in complete seriousness, "thanks, I missed that one." Then, since I found all this amusing, and just to peeve him off, I said, "real hikers don't need trekking poles." Then, he went into this long winded discourse why I was wrong. I tolerated him letting him have his say though because he had this delicious Belgian chocolate that he was occasionally willing to share with me, when I pretended to agree with him on some of his finer trekking poles are mandatory perspective. Who says thru-hiking has to be boring? :)

TNhiker
11-18-2014, 23:24
I came across one curmudgeon of a thru-hiker that earnestly believed he had to touch every white blaze usually with one of his his trekking poles



for my thru, I plan on taking a more pure route and lick every blaze......

I wouldn't want to take the chance of losing a pole by using that other method.....

Dogwood
11-18-2014, 23:34
for my thru, I plan on taking a more pure route and lick every blaze......

I wouldn't want to take the chance of losing a pole by using that other method.....


You might want to reconsider that once you see how dirty the bottom of the canoe can be in Maine with the painted AT blaze. I'd think you be risking less disease if you were to lick every door knob of the men's bathroom in every Greyhound station in Tennessee.:)

perrymk
11-19-2014, 07:15
Now, that's funny. I came across one curmudgeon of a thru-hiker that earnestly believed he had to touch every white blaze
Did he touch the blazes on both sides of the tree (or whatever object) or just the ones that faced him?

rickb
11-19-2014, 08:04
First off, I'm a diehard HYOH guy. I've never judged if someone does a thru in 3 months or section hikes over 10 years to finish the AT, and it doesn't matter to me if your pack weight averages 8 pounds or 80. If you're enjoying yourself, good on ya.

Why the disapproval of those who are not enjoying themselves?

If someone makes a personal decision to push on even after they are no longer having fun, so what. Its their hike.

daddytwosticks
11-19-2014, 08:06
Hiking to me means walking along a trail in the woods. Why does it have to be more difficult than that?

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 08:19
i've never slackpacked while on a long distance backpacking trip. i've never done it at all. don't see the point in it. most do it just to get miles in so they can stay in town and party. actually my first trail name was Yankee Slackpacker but back then it meant you carried a full pack but slacked off on miles and goals

Tipi Walter
11-19-2014, 08:38
i've never slackpacked while on a long distance backpacking trip. i've never done it at all. don't see the point in it. most do it just to get miles in so they can stay in town and party. actually my first trail name was Yankee Slackpacker but back then it meant you carried a full pack but slacked off on miles and goals

Your comment "slacked off on miles and goals" reminds me of a group of backpackers doing the PCT in 2000 who went by the name Menacing Vegetables for their ability to convince otherwise healthy backpackers to slow down and slacken up (hence the vegetables) and lower their goal levels, (hence the menacing).
http://www.tannercritz.com/pct2000/index.html

jawnzee
11-19-2014, 08:47
Your comment "slacked off on miles and goals" reminds me of a group of backpackers doing the PCT in 2000 who went by the name Menacing Vegetables for their ability to convince otherwise healthy backpackers to slow down and slacken up (hence the vegetables) and lower their goal levels, (hence the menacing).
http://www.tannercritz.com/pct2000/index.html
Woah, they went to Burning Man partway through their hike. Ended at a hot spring. 1600 PCT miles in 6 months. Not my kinda hike, but I'd still say they're doing it the right way.

garlic08
11-19-2014, 09:42
...What it really boils down to is how you really want to spend money on the trail...I wonder how much would it cost to get four hikers and two cars together to slack the whole thing. One car at one end one car at the other end swap keys in the middle and meet at a state campground at night for a shower and civilized meal. That could be a fun and fast way to do it. Actually the more I think about it eight people could do it. That would cut the cost even more.

I actually met a married couple doing this in 2008. They drove their car out from the West Coast, bought another car in GA, and started car shuttling the entire AT. I met them in Pearisburg, and they looked more tired than I was, from all the nights of driving to set up the next day of day hiking. That was the summer gas first hit $4, too. I can't imagine what their AT hike was going to cost, if they made it.

Slackpacking can be part of the social aspect of the AT--stay in a hostel and get a group together to spend another night there and hire the hostel owner to shuttle you to/from another trailhead. I had section-hiked a portion of the AT years before my thru and when I first found out about organized slackpacking opportunities, I thought it was a great idea and tried it once and it was fun in some ways. I agree it can be part of the AT experience and I'm glad I tried it.

As my pack got into the negligible weight range (under ten pounds), slackpacking stopped making any sense at all so I didn't do it on my thru hike, and one reason was to save money.

jdc5294
11-19-2014, 10:13
The spirit of my post was let everyone hike the way they want, I didn't think I came off as insulting the non-slackpackers. I only meant to insult the ones who insult slackpackers.

squeezebox
11-19-2014, 10:23
hike the way you want to hike, let me hike the way I'm comfortable and stop judging others.

Traveler
11-19-2014, 11:18
Its really about whatever personal standards you set for yourself, whether you tap every white stripe, hike with just a canteen between hotels, or take all you own along with you. Its the journey, not the destination we tend to define for ourselves. Its a very individual issue, deepening the wisdom of HYOH.

Coffee
11-19-2014, 11:38
Seriously, I don't think anyone cares. This is one of those debates that is common online and almost entirely a non-issue in real life.

Starchild
11-19-2014, 12:39
Just some clarification/addition on my above statement: Looking into more it I did one other paid slackpack, so total spent exclusively slackpacking would be $25, not $5. It was more of a much needed rest and recovery day. And the total miles slacked is more like 130, so still not expensive unless you want it to be.




To me if you slackpack during your thru you are missing out on an aspect of what the AT is. Why is slackpacking meant to be a part of the AT experience? I have nothing against slackpacking. I slackpacked on my first AT hike. I chose not to slackpack on my last thru by design. I wanted to do a continuous hike south to north. I had several opportunities to slackpack and declined.

It is my philosophy and saying that no one thru hikes the AT on their own. Meaning we are ever dependent on services and also the good will to make the journey. And that is how it is suppose to be (again IMHO), the AT is a great teacher of one of the hardest lessons for us to learn, that being how to receive, and how we are all part of something greater. We are not rugged individuals braving the elements on our own, but respected and greatly honored by others for the life journey that we are undertaking as part of a traveling community. As such the good will, and the opportunities offered along the way are part and meant to be part, of the AT experience, if we are open to receiving them (which you did on your first, but chose to do a different type of hike later). Slackpacking is one such extension of good will, or at least the ability to have that as a for pay service.


Additionally I believe this philosophy is at least partly, but indirectly, recognized by ATC by establishing official 'Appalachian Trail communities', for a path that was meant for them to preserve, guide and manage that was founded as “a footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness.”. The trail has evolved and grown from this, one of the founding philosophies. The communities are officially recognized as part of the trail experience even though there may not be a single white blaze within the town limits - so the trail experience is/extends beyond the white blaze corridor and the natural setting, but included such services and opportunities for good will that are available in these AT communities.

Again IMHO

rafe
11-19-2014, 12:53
I in with the "who cares" crowd. This is truly one of those issues where you oughta do whatever the **** you want to do. Any further judgement on it is just BS'ing.

Spit Walker
11-19-2014, 12:58
Why fool with slackpacking? Backpacking is way easier on the mind.

Slo-go'en
11-19-2014, 13:09
It cost me about $300 to slack pack about 75 mile of Maine over the course of a few days and I was splitting the cost of lodging and shuttles with another hiker. $4.00 a mile, not too bad not to have to lug a full pack over a difficult section of Maine. Plus having a nice warm bed to sleep in, a Dogwood sandwich for lunch and a hot breakfast and dinner. Hum, I may not have included the cost of all those meals. That was my one real slack packing adventure and it would be easy to get used to - if money were no object.

garlic08
11-19-2014, 13:16
...a Dogwood sandwich for lunch....

I assume you meant "Dagwood" sandwich, but I hope Dogwood sees that!

(It was around Andover ME on a section where I first encountered slackpacking as an organized sport. "Peg Leg" was driving the van back then. I heard he had died recently when I passed through again on my thru hike in '08.)

rocketsocks
11-19-2014, 13:17
It cost me about $300 to slack pack about 75 mile of Maine over the course of a few days and I was splitting the cost of lodging and shuttles with another hiker. $4.00 a mile, not too bad not to have to lug a full pack over a difficult section of Maine. Plus having a nice warm bed to sleep in, a Dogwood sandwich for lunch and a hot breakfast and dinner. Hum, I may not have included the cost of all those meals. That was my one real slack packing adventure and it would be easy to get used to - if money were no object.
Alrighy, I gotta ask...what is a dogwood samich?

Tuckahoe
11-19-2014, 13:24
The spirit of my post was let everyone hike the way they want, I didn't think I came off as insulting the non-slackpackers. I only meant to insult the ones who insult slackpackers.

Why create a thread to insult anyone in the first place?

rafe
11-19-2014, 14:21
I assume you meant "Dagwood" sandwich, but I hope Dogwood sees that!

(It was around Andover ME on a section where I first encountered slackpacking as an organized sport. "Peg Leg" was driving the van back then. I heard he had died recently when I passed through again on my thru hike in '08.)

Andover is pretty much where I learned about slackpacking, and it was Pegleg doing the shuttling. I mostly did bike-hikes through there, but Pegleg shuttled me one day. A year or two later I got to slack another (adjacent) short section there with some help from a friend who has a house in Bethel. Photo taken as we dropped my car off on Maine Rte. 17 aka Height Of Land. Mooselookmeguntic in the background.

Dogwood
11-19-2014, 14:30
It cost me about $300 to slack pack about 75 mile of Maine over the course of a few days and I was splitting the cost of lodging and shuttles with another hiker. $4.00 a mile, not too bad not to have to lug a full pack over a difficult section of Maine. Plus having a nice warm bed to sleep in, a Dogwood sandwich for lunch and a hot breakfast and dinner. Hum, I may not have included the cost of all those meals. That was my one real slack packing adventure and it would be easy to get used to - if money were no object.

In 06 Minnesota Smith and two others, I believe a father and son, supposedly because of injuries/lingering medical issues, basically slack packed the 100 mile wilderness. When, speaking to Minnesota about it, who was hiking slower and with a significantly heavier kit than me, possibly(LIKELY?) resulting in the sore leg/knee he kept insisting was the reason for all the slack packs, though refusing to see the light of going lighter, who seemed to frequently mysteriously show up at AT shelters ahead of me further up the trail(?), I was amazed at the money he was dropping to accomplish all those slack packs. It also put a different perspective on the definition of wilderness for me if he could find ways to slack pack/roads to access the AT in that 100 mile section.

Dogwood
11-19-2014, 14:34
According to Slackpackers Anonymous I must make amends wherever possible so I guess I must rehike with a fully loaded pack the two 30 mile AT slack packs I did. Until I atone for my misdeeds I haven't been able to sleep properly at night. I'm having backpacking nightmares about it. Does anyone know of a good anti slack packing professing Psychiatrist?

rafe
11-19-2014, 14:40
In 06 Minnesota Smith and two others, I believe a father and son, supposedly because of injuries/lingering medical issues, basically slack packed the 100 mile wilderness. When, speaking to Minnesota about it, who was hiking slower and with a significantly heavier kit than me, possibly(LIKELY?) resulting in the sore leg/knee he kept insisting was the reason for all the slack packs, though refusing to see the light of going lighter, who seemed to frequently mysteriously show up at AT shelters ahead of me further up the trail(?), I was amazed at the money he was dropping to accomplish all those slack packs. It also put a different perspective on the definition of wilderness for me if he could find ways to slack pack/roads to access the AT in that 100 mile section.

The "Hundred Mile Wilderness" is, alas, no longer a thing. There are busy trailheads all along the length of it now, with shuttle access to any one you can name. It's still mostly a pretty piece of trail, but the idea of having to do all of it (or none of it) is passé.

Dogwood
11-19-2014, 14:56
It's funny the perceptions we can have. I've met misguided misinformed AT thru-hikers who thought once they got to NJ or parts of the northeast they would be hiking through people's residential back yards, refineries, toxic waste sites, etc. not being able to sleep because of the large airplanes flying overhead from large INT APs near the AT, constantly avoiding toxic sewerage sludge to drink, etc.

Those whirring sounds of the wind turbine farms in the Mojave were pretty neat to sleep near though on the PCT especially when nestled in SAFELY among a large grove of Joshua trees.

Slo-go'en
11-19-2014, 15:14
It's funny the perceptions we can have. I've met misguided misinformed AT thru-hikers who thought once they got to NJ or parts of the northeast they would be hiking through people's residential back yards, refineries, toxic waste sites, etc. not being able to sleep because of the large airplanes flying overhead from large INT APs near the AT, constantly avoiding toxic sewerage sludge to drink, etc.

During my hikes in AT8 and AT9, I remember staying in an abandoned house trailer somewhere in Virginia which had been turned into a makeshift hiker flop house. Then in NJ I did walk through a suburban neighborhood were the official shelter was a house on the edge of the development. In Connecticut you still don't have to wander too far off the trail to be in someones yard. Then there was the slag pile "mountain" from the zinc smelter the AT went over at Lehigh Gap in PA. Hiking over that bleak landscape made me think I was on the moon!

I was disappointed not to find any of those places when I went back years later.

Oh and sorry about mistaking you for a sandwich there Dogwood :)

Dogwood
11-19-2014, 16:21
Uh hem, I'm not a sandwich. I'm a tree, bush, or ground cover plant. :)

RED-DOG
11-19-2014, 16:54
I tell you on my thru's I didn't slack pack any and I carried my full weight even up Katahdan ( which I really don't Advise ) but on my next AT thru I plan to slack pack and have an R.V meet me at all the road crossings with a Beautiful blond with a steak dinner and a shot of JD.

rafe
11-19-2014, 16:54
Plenty of places where you're almost peeking into people's windows. At least one place I can think of where you walk up someone's driveway. Not a public institution but a private home -- in N. Adams, heading into the woods northbound.

fiddlehead
11-19-2014, 17:08
What about each step? With every step you skip over 2.5 ft of the trail. Real thruhikers would shuffle their feet so they touch all of it.

Man, how I wish whiteblaze had a "like" button.

Starchild
11-19-2014, 17:13
Man, how I wish whiteblaze had a "like" button.

Heal to toe, all the way baby

TNhiker
11-19-2014, 17:15
According to Slackpackers Anonymous I must make amends wherever possible so I guess I must rehike with a fully loaded pack the two 30 mile AT slack packs I did. Until I atone for my misdeeds I haven't been able to sleep properly at night. I'm having backpacking nightmares about it. Does anyone know of a good anti slack packing professing Psychiatrist?




Dont forget to lick the blazes.....

RED-DOG
11-19-2014, 17:29
In Baxter state park the rangers suggest you leave your full pack at their post and take a little pack would that be considered slack packing in my opinion that's the smartest slack pack on the entire AT.

garlic08
11-19-2014, 19:35
Uh hem, I'm not a sandwich. I'm a tree, bush, or ground cover plant. :)

Last week I was trying to explain the Dagwood sandwich to a couple of guests from Belgium. I guess the "Blondie" comic strip is not translated there. They were amazed at the amount of stuff Americans put between two pieces of bread. I said, "That's nothing! How about Dagwood's sandwiches?" Blank stare.

rocketsocks
11-19-2014, 19:52
Last week I was trying to explain the Dagwood sandwich to a couple of guests from Belgium. I guess the "Blondie" comic strip is not translated there. They were amazed at the amount of stuff Americans put between two pieces of bread. I said, "That's nothing! How about Dagwood's sandwiches?" Blank stare.aaah, thee ole in front of the TV Dagwood Sub...now that I can see that.

squeezebox
11-19-2014, 19:54
Rafe; I'm reading " hiking the appalachian trail" it's about the 50's and 60's thru hikers. There was a LOT more road walking then, which meant traffic, houses, small towns, mean dogs, etc. But the + side was more mom & Pop stores to resupply, and friendly folks that would feed you and maybe give you a bed for the night just to hear your story. But in those times there was a handful of thru hikers per year, oh yea and the strip cutting logging.

johnnybgood
11-19-2014, 20:08
Plenty of places where you're almost peeking into people's windows. At least one place I can think of where you walk up someone's driveway. Not a public institution but a private home -- in N. Adams, heading into the woods northbound.

Somewhere in Maryland you're walking like within 20 yds. of someone's back door before making a turn. The AT sits along the boundary of two residential properties.

WingedMonkey
11-19-2014, 20:30
The only thing that matters, is what matters to you, as the hiker.


Some peoples hikes are harder by choices, Some peoples hikes are harder by their principles, and some peoples hikes are harder by stupidity.

However, when discussing hikes, differentiating between different activities frames it for a better understanding of what was, or wasn't, involved. Beyond that, its all just personal.

I carried my pack the final leg up Katahdin (and back down). I guess one of those reasons covers it.

rafe
11-19-2014, 20:34
I carried my pack the final leg up Katahdin (and back down). I guess one of those reasons covers it.

Were you planning to cook a nice meal and camp up at the summit?

WingedMonkey
11-19-2014, 20:48
Were you planning to cook a nice meal and camp up at the summit?

I had the extreme pleasure of being the only one on the mountain that day. It was beginning to snow.

I wasn't going to quit.

But...I wasn't going unprepared.

squeezebox
11-19-2014, 20:49
I would be very cool to watch the sunrise on top of Katahdin, Looks too rocky to pitch a tent.

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:05
I would be very cool to watch the sunrise on top of Katahdin, Looks too rocky to pitch a tent.

i was there for an awesome sunset back in july of 91. i was support for Maineak's speed hike

rickb
11-19-2014, 21:06
I carried my pack the final leg up Katahdin (and back down). I guess one of those reasons covers it.

Just one ??

rafe
11-19-2014, 21:07
I had the extreme pleasure of being the only one on the mountain that day. It was beginning to snow.

I wasn't going to quit.

But...I wasn't going unprepared.

Being alone at the top of Katahdin would be quite special. Can't say I've had that experience. I know people carry all kinds of funky stuff up there, but I just couldn't see the point of carrying a full pack with all the usual gear in it.

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:15
I just couldn't see the point of carrying a full pack with all the usual gear in it.

if you carried it all the way from georgia you might understand

rickb
11-19-2014, 21:20
Or if you started at Roaring Brook.

rafe
11-19-2014, 21:23
if you carried it all the way from georgia you might understand

Like I said, to each his own.

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:26
Like I said, to each his own.

and like i said, you'd understand if you walked 2100+ miles

Coffee
11-19-2014, 21:27
Somewhere in Maryland you're walking like within 20 yds. of someone's back door before making a turn. The AT sits along the boundary of two residential properties.
Isn't that right before I 70 heading NOBO ?

rafe
11-19-2014, 21:29
and like i said, you'd understand if you walked 2100+ miles

I've walked a lot more than 2100 miles in my time, whippersnapper. ;) Climbed Katahdin twice before I ever gave thought to a through-hike.

Wise Old Owl
11-19-2014, 21:29
i was there for an awesome sunset back in july of 91. i was support for Maineak's speed hike
Curious so you are on top for a sunset.... how long did it take to get down that night cus that had to be serious night hiking. I'm just thinking that had to be a cool dark trip...

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:33
Curious so you are on top for a sunset.... how long did it take to get down that night cus that had to be serious night hiking. I'm just thinking that had to be a cool dark trip...

we were there that late cuz he had to be there before midnite to finish in 56 days. took 3+ hours to get down. the chincy headlamps we had died about half way down

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:35
I've walked a lot more than 2100 miles in my time, whippersnapper. ;) .

not all at once. hence your ignorance

rafe
11-19-2014, 21:37
not all at once. hence your ignorance

I bow to your mastery of the subject... of ignorance. :)

Wise Old Owl
11-19-2014, 21:40
Thanks LW... I am sure it wasn't easy!

Lone Wolf
11-19-2014, 21:47
Thanks LW... I am sure it wasn't easy!

tough day. we started that day from Nahmakanta lake. 40+ miles to the end

WingedMonkey
11-19-2014, 22:45
Just one ??

All of the above?

;)

CarlZ993
11-20-2014, 15:42
I tell you on my thru's I didn't slack pack any and I carried my full weight even up Katahdan ( which I really don't Advise ) but on my next AT thru I plan to slack pack and have an R.V meet me at all the road crossings with a Beautiful blond with a steak dinner and a shot of JD.
You need a hiking buddy on your next thru? :)

I did a few slackpacks on my thru. My first w/ Starchild (out of Hot Springs). By State: 1 NC; 1 VA; & 2 NH. I didn't have any ethical qualms about doing so. It was a nice change of pace.

[HYOH... unless you're doing it differently than me. Then, you're doing it wrong. :) ]

Dogwood
11-20-2014, 19:07
Perceptions are funny. Folks will talk about and consider development near the AT in states in the northeast like MD, NJ, NY, CT, and MA forgetting the AT doesn't go near but through development quite a few times in the south. Heck, in GA it goes through development in the form of passing through a building at Neel Gap, goes through development in Hot Springs NC in the form of a town, goes through development in the form of a town in Damascus VA, goes through development in the form of a town in Harpers Ferry Va, etc. Just saying. It's all good though. It's part of the AT EXPERIENCE. :)

lonehiker
11-20-2014, 20:09
If you believe in HYOH, you don't get into this debate.

P.S. my post is informational only, not to debate the subject. I would attach one of those smiley things but I think they are stupid.

johnnybgood
11-20-2014, 20:26
A good buddy of mine is currently hiking the AT for the 2nd time by a series of near slackpacking day hikes.
His modus operandi is driving hours, sometimes many hours, to his last stop point, then hiking 20+ miles/day-- for what amounts to weekend day hikes with only a liter of water, a sub sandwich and his camera.
I've hiked probably 60 miles with him this year and he likes the idea of moving fast with miniscule weight to carry with the reward of a motel to go to afterwards.

So with this I say : " Hike your own hike....my friend."

Dogtra
11-21-2014, 00:47
Hike your own hike. Period.

There will always be critics in this world - no matter the subject.

rickb
11-21-2014, 08:12
Funny thing about this thread.

There have been 81 posts and not a single one has suggested other people should not slack pack, or are some how inferior because they do.

OK, maybe one-- Lone Wolf's. But to my reading, even his observation as to why most people slack pack was his opinion of a fact, nothing more. If he does make value judgements about others choices, they certainly were not articulated here.

If I am right about that, then no one in this thread (zero, zilch) has suggested other people should not slack pack or are somehow inferior because they do.

So why all the hand wringing?

Is it that while Whiteblaze is essentially judgement free on this matter, people's experience on the trail is much different and that the scars from that on-trail experience have not yet healed?

Lone Wolf
11-21-2014, 09:33
i've never slackpacked while on a long distance backpacking trip. i've never done it at all. don't see the point in it. most do it just to get miles in so they can stay in town and party. actually my first trail name was Yankee Slackpacker but back then it meant you carried a full pack but slacked off on miles and goals


Funny thing about this thread.

There have been 81 posts and not a single one has suggested other people should not slack pack, or are some how inferior because they do.

OK, maybe one-- Lone Wolf's. But to my reading, even his observation as to why most people slack pack was his opinion of a fact, nothing more. If he does make value judgements about others choices, they certainly were not articulated here.

If I am right about that, then no one in this thread (zero, zilch) has suggested other people should not slack pack or are somehow inferior because they do.

So why all the hand wringing?

Is it that while Whiteblaze is essentially judgement free on this matter, people's experience on the trail is much different and that the scars from that on-trail experience have not yet healed?

never said anybody was inferior or shouldn't do it

lonehiker
11-21-2014, 10:21
I am a purist but only hold myself to that standard. I have never slackpacked on a long distance hike. I suspect that there has been no condemnation because all the purists have quit (or have been ran off) WB. Several years ago this would have been a much more enjoyable thread.

jawnzee
11-21-2014, 10:50
Slackpacking isn't for me. My pack is like Linus and his blanket. It just doesn't feel right without it.

Traveler
11-21-2014, 11:21
I am a purist but only hold myself to that standard. I have never slackpacked on a long distance hike. I suspect that there has been no condemnation because all the purists have quit (or have been ran off) WB. Several years ago this would have been a much more enjoyable thread.

This "debate" isn't really about slack packing, its more to the heart of personal standards. Everyone has metrics they use in life, in their professions, or on the trail to assess themselves or establish personal standards. Sharing our own standards with others who may not share them is where the friction and debate comes from, which is needed in my view.

There are standards relative to the AT which are very high to some people (as LW points out), and minimal for others. Some, if not many of these standards are in conflict, by wide measure or nuance. These can be as simple as who has the right of way walking downhill or uphill, to more involved that do not allow one to hitch a ride along a stretch of AT on a road as opposed to walking it, and a lot of stuff in between.

I think its important to air our personal standards routinely around the "communal campfire" here, it may not change many minds, but will help us position our own personal standards with a bit more clarity and continue to maintain minimum standards common to all of us.

squeezebox
11-21-2014, 11:40
In the back of my brain is a thought that the purist ARE more pure. It's romantic to hike from one end to the other, are flip-floppers cheaters? To carry my pack 100+ % of the time. no blue blazes, the guy that had to touch every white blaze, etc. etc.
But eventually reality kicks in, I don't need to judge other people, and shouldn't. I really shouldn't even judge myself really, It's about what you do, not what you SHOULD do. Be good to yourself and others. Embrace the process. Don't force the square peg into a round hole.
We are on the trail to find peace.

Connie
11-22-2014, 07:38
According to Slackpackers Anonymous I must make amends wherever possible so I guess I must rehike with a fully loaded pack the two 30 mile AT slack packs I did. Until I atone for my misdeeds I haven't been able to sleep properly at night. I'm having backpacking nightmares about it. Does anyone know of a good anti slack packing professing Psychiatrist?

Maybe a trail angel? Maybe Nancy, with an upturned box and a sign 5-cents.

I haven't looked in on this thread, in awhile. Did I miss much?

It is my impression, the slackpacking described in the thread is called trekking elsewhere.

Theosus
11-22-2014, 10:45
The only thing that matters, is what matters to you, as the hiker.

I used to think Slackpacking was cheating... I would read about people staying at hostels or in towns and think, "why are you hiking the trail if you are going to hang around town for two days and not carry the pack at all". Until I slack packed last weekend on a piece of the Foothills trail. Carrying a little day pack for 7 miles through a section, while one of our camping partners waited around for us, was one of my favorite experiences on the trail. Not having to lug the pack up and over the mountain made for a very enjoyable, relaxing experience. It was one of my favorite hikes so far, especially since we didn't have many miles to put in, and we could really take time to stop and look around and take pictures and all. Of course, that made putting the pack on much LESS enjoyable late in the day, but I get the rationale for slack packing now. If you're hiking for a week or a month or six months, a few days here and there without the damn thing on your back could really help invigorate you. Yay for slack packing!

rickycodie
11-22-2014, 16:24
I've never understood people that think this way. What does it affect me? Add long as you're happy.

Malto
11-22-2014, 18:41
I used to think Slackpacking was cheating... I would read about people staying at hostels or in towns and think, "why are you hiking the trail if you are going to hang around town for two days and not carry the pack at all". Until I slack packed last weekend on a piece of the Foothills trail. Carrying a little day pack for 7 miles through a section, while one of our camping partners waited around for us, was one of my favorite experiences on the trail. Not having to lug the pack up and over the mountain made for a very enjoyable, relaxing experience. It was one of my favorite hikes so far, especially since we didn't have many miles to put in, and we could really take time to stop and look around and take pictures and all. Of course, that made putting the pack on much LESS enjoyable late in the day, but I get the rationale for slack packing now. If you're hiking for a week or a month or six months, a few days here and there without the damn thing on your back could really help invigorate you. Yay for slack packing!

You just may be a UL in the making. imagine hiking all day with that same feeling you had for those slack packing miles.

Wolf - 23000
11-22-2014, 19:18
I understand people should HYOH but let be serious. If someone is really serious about not wanting to carry a lot of weight, then wouldn't it make sense to just lighten your backpack? I travel with a fairly light-weight backpack. It doesn't make sense to have someone drive to a meet up location that is not always easy to find or access, just to save a couple of pounds. Normal it is less than 10 pounds different. Gas is not cheap and the time people spend waiting around.

Don't be lazy and just carry you gear.

Wolf

Coffee
11-22-2014, 19:24
Is it that while Whiteblaze is essentially judgement free on this matter, people's experience on the trail is much different and that the scars from that on-trail experience have not yet healed?

My experience is the opposite: people on trails are almost never judgemental while this is not the case online in general or on Whiteblaze in particular. Most of the "contentious " issues discussed online are simply non issues on the trail. At least that has been my experience so far.

jawnzee
11-23-2014, 11:08
If someone is really serious about not wanting to carry a lot of weight, then wouldn't it make sense to just lighten your backpack?
Agreed. This whole thread is advertisement for the joys of hiking light and "fast", something that otherwise tends to be more controversial on this forum.

LittleRock
11-26-2014, 14:26
I'm not against slackpacking, but I am against paying someone to move your pack for you.

Lone Wolf
11-26-2014, 15:25
I'm not against slackpacking, but I am against paying someone to move your pack for you.

exactly. and the ones that pay only want to give you gas money. i will not shuttle/slack most thru-hikers cuz they want to pay very little but they'll spend a ton on beer, pizza, cigarettes in town

Starchild
11-26-2014, 15:58
I'm not against slackpacking, but I am against paying someone to move your pack for you.

I think you hit upon something here, it is the buying easier miles that is the bug up some peoples butts. I have heard that the AT Thru is a great equalizer, cutting thru socioeconomic classes but this stands contrary to this and can create a elite class (on both sides).

As I stated above I only explicidally paid 2x for slackpacking, yet covered 130 miles slackpacking my thru. 1st time was $5 for about 18 miles, I consider that a near gift. The second time was about the same distance and $20, and that was because I needed a recovery day - suck it up, I advanced while recovering. All others were gifts. So slackpacking does not equal buying easier miles but it can.

Wolf - 23000
11-26-2014, 17:48
exactly. and the ones that pay only want to give you gas money. i will not shuttle/slack most thru-hikers cuz they want to pay very little but they'll spend a ton on beer, pizza, cigarettes in town

LittleRock, Lone Wolf,

Well put! Sending $5.00 on gas does covered someone time driving around from one point of the trail to the next. If someone takes time out of their schedule just drive someone pack around, it can be a pain in the neck and to only get gas money. Some people needed to be serious. Even fast food workers are asking for $15 per/hr. How much should someone get for driving someone around?

Wolf

atmilkman
11-26-2014, 19:24
How much should someone get for driving someone around?

Wolf
$20 an hour plus $2 per mile - round trip mileage.