View Full Version : Guthook Apps 2015 updates, and call for suggestions
The three of us here at Guthook's Guides are in the process of making some major changes to the AT Hiker apps, along with all of our apps for the PCT, CDT, etc. We'll have new map options, better networking performance, and a few other improvements, which you can read about here for iPhone (http://www.guthookhikes.com/2014/11/updating-guthooks-guides-for-2015.html) or here for Android (http://www.sierraattitude.com/news/).
Also, we're interested in hearing your suggestions for features. I can't guarantee we'll get around to all the suggestions, but many requests in the past have wound up as prominent features in the current versions of the apps-- like the elevation profile, the distance to waypoints along the trail, and the Facebook/Twitter sharing options. If you have something you'd like to see in the app, let me know and maybe we'll figure out a good way to add it eventually.
Cheers,
Guthook
Just downloaded the full pct app...looks good!
I did. There is a demo.
The Demo has everything for a section.
then, I went in Settings and added what I wanted at the special price.
Chair-man
12-01-2014, 19:51
Also, we're interested in hearing your suggestions for features.
Cheers,
Guthook
I'd like to see more water sources on the Appalachian Trail. There are a lot more water sources out there than your old map was showing.
I'd like to see more water sources on the Appalachian Trail. There are a lot more water sources out there than your old map was showing.
Chair Man, do you have any specific areas where you're noticing that? I mark water sources where I find them, but in some places the water sources are very seasonal, even in a good year. There are places up here in Maine and Vermont where a creek that's gushing almost a foot deep in June is bone dry by July or August, so I'm bound to miss some water sources depending on the season when I walk the trail for the map.
I purchased one of your apps for the AT at the end of one of my section hikes this past fall and really enjoyed having it.
I don't know if this is completely unrealistic; but it would be helpful to have an elevation map that described what the terrain was like.
Its nice knowing the elevation but it sure would have been nice to know at times if I was going to be walking up or down a grassy field vs a dirt path vs a massive boulder field.
Not that its completely necessary; but a general sort of ranking in terrain (along with knowing elevation) sure would help out when planning miles per day.
For example the elevation line could be colored blue for terrain rated 0-2(mostly grassy with few roots or rocks) and red for terrain rated 8-9(large boulders..etc)
A have a few guides that give some physical descriptions of what a hiker will see; but it would be helpful to see that reflected with the elevation profile line.
Looking forward to your 2015 guides.
JohnnySnook
12-02-2014, 01:48
Guthook - Personally I haven't used your app but it comes highly recommended.
Personally I don't want all the exact details for every section. I don't want the to be like following a guide book even though hiking the AT is following a guide book.
I want to experience the trail. If i wanted to see every inch of the trail there are many blogs and youtube videos by many hikers that document every inch of the trail. I choose not to watch the section by section videos. Yes, videos under 30 minutes of the whole trail I do watch.
If you do add extremely detailed maps, videos, and pictures of the trail to your app I suggest making two user interfaces.
One for the purist that wants a guide to the trail but wants to actually experience the trail as a new journey in their life.
One for the person that isn't concerned about the adventure the trail offers but just wants to finish the trail and add a notch to their belt.
No offense the the younger generation of hikers but many fall into the 2nd description.
They hike the trail like a school coarse. Many will never hike again. Yet they can say they bucked the system and spent 5 months in the wilderness. I don't respect these hikers.
I personally am no one to judge anyone as its been many many years since I've been on the trail. Just stating what I see researching the trail.
Will I hike it this year? I Hope so.
Willow, I've had a few requests for similar things, so it's in my mind, but not very feasible. One of the issues is that I'd have to re-map the entire trail with en eye on what the tread looks like rather than an eye for individual points of interest. More feasible would be an alternative sort of waypoint where, rather than an individual point, we could show an area along the trail. Rather than showing every type of terrain, it would just highlight major anomalies like road walks, PA rock fields, alpine zones, etc. Still, that's a long way off at this point. But it is on my mind :-)
JohnnySnook, I tend more toward your philosophy of "less is more", although not always for the same reasons ;-) Last year I added the ability to turn off the photos of waypoints in the apps, and this year one of my plans is to add the ability to remove the waypoints entirely from the elevation profile (so you can have a nice, clean profile to look at, just in case you don't care about what's along the path). Maybe I'll add that option to the map as well. It's all about options... more control over what you see in the app can't hurt.
Rain Man
12-02-2014, 11:07
I have one of your AT section apps and have run into one glaring and troubling "error." You mix metric and American measures.
Why in the world you'd use miles for one reason and meters for another is lost on me.
Otherwise, it appears to be an excellent app!
Rain Man
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Kerosene
12-02-2014, 12:30
I used your app for my Rangeley to Katahdin section this past Fall (my final AT section!) and found it most helpful in finding stealth sites as well as a few nice lookouts.
Let me build on Willow's suggestion: For me at least, elevation profiles don't begin to give you a sense of the difficulty of the terrain. Personally, I can hike uphill on a well-groomed trail with 700'/mi elevation gain faster than I can along flat ground where the trail consists of ankle-shredding rocks and roots along a streambed. I'm thinking that there might be a way to color-code mile-long sections -- perhaps overlaying the elevation profiles -- that provide some sense of the trail surface. For example, portions of the Chairback Range in Maine are much more rugged and slower to traverse than climbing The Priest in Virginia SOBO.
A 5-step color-coded scale (red-orange-yellow-blue-purple?) would provide a lot more information and would allow a hiker to calibrate to their own style of walking. Steepness would increase difficulty, but level or rocks, roots, water, mud, exposed terrain, etc. would all play a part. You could even setup a website that would allow hikers to grade sections for you, taking an average of responses or using them as input to your experience.
I will be purchasing your app for the JMT before I go in Fall 2016. Best of luck.
I have one of your AT section apps and have run into one glaring and troubling "error." You mix metric and American measures.
Why in the world you'd use miles for one reason and meters for another is lost on me.
The metric contour lines on the map were because I didn't have access to a good base map in feet. But the new map sets in the updates will give you the ability to choose between a metric base map and an American base map, so that will finally be taken care of.
The other place where metric always pops up instead of American is in the GPS information with "x meters away from trail", and that is totally the fault of my laziness. I just added a fix for that to the "to do this month" list :-)
If I missed anything, just let me know and I'll right that as well!
Chair Man, do you have any specific areas where you're noticing that? I mark water sources where I find them, but in some places the water sources are very seasonal, even in a good year. There are places up here in Maine and Vermont where a creek that's gushing almost a foot deep in June is bone dry by July or August, so I'm bound to miss some water sources depending on the season when I walk the trail for the map.
Ryan, unless you can label every seasonal water source with reliable availability, I think you're better off leaving them out. If a hiker ends up carrying a liter of water when they reach a source, it's better than arriving empty to a dried up source.
Tried one of your apps on an AT section hike - it's excellent! One issue I had was that if you set it to SOBO the distances aren't always consistent. i.e., some screens the numbers are for SOBOs, but other screens continue to use NOBO distances.
Any chance of a discount if buying the set for the whole trail? ;)
Ryan, unless you can label every seasonal water source with reliable availability, I think you're better off leaving them out. If a hiker ends up carrying a liter of water when they reach a source, it's better than arriving empty to a dried up source.
Sly, I agree. I try to list ALL water sources in areas that are relatively dry, but for wetter areas I prefer to list only the most reliable. Obviously places like Maine and Vermont aren't a huge deal for water. Pennsylvania and New York and New Jersey are another story. When I mapped NY and NJ, it was April, so water sources were very different from when most hikers will be there, I imagine. It's always a work in progress :-)
Tried one of your apps on an AT section hike - it's excellent! One issue I had was that if you set it to SOBO the distances aren't always consistent. i.e., some screens the numbers are for SOBOs, but other screens continue to use NOBO distances.
Any chance of a discount if buying the set for the whole trail? ;)
Sodium, the PCT and AT app both have a "through-hiker special" as of this past April.
As for the SOBO mileage problem, I hadn't heard of it-- could you send me some screen shots and/or tell me of specific waypoints where that's happening so I can figure out what's going on?
As for the SOBO mileage problem, I hadn't heard of it-- could you send me some screen shots and/or tell me of specific waypoints where that's happening so I can figure out what's going on?
Just trying it again quickly now, the mileages when you use the search option always show NOBO mileage in the search results even when configured for SOBO direction.
The other thing that was annoying was when you've gone to a location page (say, for Erwin TN), if you then click "Show on Map" or "Show on Profile", there doesn't seem any way back to your location page. If you click the back button you go to the "Guide" page with its full list of locations, not the location page you were on previously. This is on the Android version.
How do updates work? I see there is a reload guide/update tab. Does that give me access to your most recent version of maps and data forever?
Chair-man
12-02-2014, 20:07
Chair Man, do you have any specific areas where you're noticing that?
To give an example, the AWOL guide book shows a unreliable spring on Frosty Mt @ mm 4.3 on the Springer approach trail but it's not on your map.
I mark water sources where I find them, but in some places the water sources are very seasonal, even in a good year. There are places up here in Maine and Vermont where a creek that's gushing almost a foot deep in June is bone dry by July or August, so I'm bound to miss some water sources depending on the season when I walk the trail for the map.
I understand the difficulty of mapping a unreliable water source if the water isn't running but I do believe the unreliable water sources should be marked as well, and here's why. If I'm thru hiking a section of trail, I kinda know how much it's been raining in that area the last couple of weeks and I would have a pretty good idea if the unreliable sources are running or not.
By the way, I'd still buy your app the way it is and I look forward to your new release. I just looked at the app store and it looks like you pulled the old AT apps off.
Just trying it again quickly now, the mileages when you use the search option always show NOBO mileage in the search results even when configured for SOBO direction. The other thing that was annoying was when you've gone to a location page (say, for Erwin TN), if you then click "Show on Map" or "Show on Profile", there doesn't seem any way back to your location page. If you click the back button you go to the "Guide" page with its full list of locations, not the location page you were on previously. This is on the Android version.
Oooh, good catch. I just tested it out on iPhone, and see what you mean about the data book view while southbound. Added to the to-do list. This one may take some tedious work to fix, but shouldn't be particularly hard.
As for the android issue, would you mind emailing
[email protected] with the details of that? That's Alice's email address-- she does all the android programming, and she is reading this thread but might be able to pick out the problem better if you can discuss it with her.
How do updates work? I see there is a reload guide/update tab. Does that give me access to your most recent version of maps and data forever?
Hey Rick, updates are free and automatic. We basically see this as a case where the people who hike again and again get a better deal over time, and hopefully appreciate the apps enough to recommend them to friends.
To give an example, the AWOL guide book shows a unreliable spring on Frosty Mt @ mm 4.3 on the Springer approach trail but it's not on your map. I understand the difficulty of mapping a unreliable water source if the water isn't running but I do believe the unreliable water sources should be marked as well, and here's why. If I'm thru hiking a section of trail, I kinda know how much it's been raining in that area the last couple of weeks and I would have a pretty good idea if the unreliable sources are running or not. By the way, I'd still buy your app the way it is and I look forward to your new release. I just looked at the app store and it looks like you pulled the old AT apps off.
Agreed. My plan for updating trail info in large batches is going to be the subject of another post sometime in January, but I am going to try to fully update the entire trail's data over the next two or three years, and try to keep cycling through like that. Until then, it's all a matter of what I can get from individuals who can send me GPS coordinates of points.
As for the old apps being pulled off, the only AT app I've ever been associated with is AT Hiker: Guthook's Guide, which is still in the Apple and Google App Stores. If you're referring to the old ATTrail apps, I was never associated with them and don't really know much about them.
Rather than showing every type of terrain, it would just highlight major anomalies like road walks, PA rock fields, alpine zones, etc. Still, that's a long way off at this point. But it is on my mind :-)
More photos? Why not, have noteworthy trail conditions photos, then. Not GPS, except perhaps GPS data in with the digital photo data to place the photo properly.
Rain Man
12-02-2014, 22:16
The metric contour lines on the map were because I didn't have access to a good base map in feet. But the new map sets in the updates will give you the ability to choose between a metric base map and an American base map, so that will finally be taken care of.
Excellent! And thanks for the explanations.
I have your app on my Samsung S3 and just bought a new S5. Any advice on how I will transfer the app or will that be done for me when I take it in to be activated and have my data transferred?
Rain Man
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couscous
12-02-2014, 22:27
If you're making a list - and checking it twice, I had sent you this suggestion 20 months ago.
Add Hostels located near crossings (with phone numbers) that will shuttle hikers. I thought of creating some virtual trail journal postings at Dicks Creek Gap for the Blueberry Patch Hostel, Stecoah Gap for The Cabin in the Woods, etc. etc. but decided it really needs icons on the map so hikers could see how far away the hostels are.
freightliner
12-02-2014, 23:00
I may have some food for thought for the future. It would be nice to have a quick way to find a shuttle into town. Some female thru hikers don't really like to hitchhike into town and are always looking for a safe ride. Then there's those days when it's pouring rain and all you want to do is get in town but who's going to stop and pick up a smelly soaking wet thru hiker. With your awesome app it would be as simple as just pressing the highlighted phone number.
Okay now I know I'm reaching for the stars but wouldn't it be cool also to have a way to know that I could get pizza delivered to trailhead/crossings. You could call a mile out and just be waiting a little while for it to get delivered piping hot.
If you're making a list - and checking it twice, I had sent you this suggestion 20 months ago.
Add Hostels located near crossings (with phone numbers) that will shuttle hikers. I thought of creating some virtual trail journal postings at Dicks Creek Gap for the Blueberry Patch Hostel, Stecoah Gap for The Cabin in the Woods, etc. etc. but decided it really needs icons on the map so hikers could see how far away the hostels are.
I may have some food for thought for the future. It would be nice to have a quick way to find a shuttle into town. Some female thru hikers don't really like to hitchhike into town and are always looking for a safe ride. Then there's those days when it's pouring rain and all you want to do is get in town but who's going to stop and pick up a smelly soaking wet thru hiker. With your awesome app it would be as simple as just pressing the highlighted phone number.
Okay now I know I'm reaching for the stars but wouldn't it be cool also to have a way to know that I could get pizza delivered to trailhead/crossings. You could call a mile out and just be waiting a little while for it to get delivered piping hot.
That's a good suggestion for Guthook, but paper guides have this information. Of course, you could hike the trail without them but I would think paper is a lot quicker to reference, or safer than pulling out an expensive device in the rain.
Oooh, good catch. I just tested it out on iPhone, and see what you mean about the data book view while southbound. Added to the to-do list. This one may take some tedious work to fix, but shouldn't be particularly hard.
wouldn't it just be a very simple line of code like if (goinSOBO) mileage=AT_length - NOBO_mileage ?
As for the android issue, would you mind emailing
[email protected] with the details of that? That's Alice's email address-- she does all the android programming, and she is reading this thread but might be able to pick out the problem better if you can discuss it with her.
Now done. Happy to help!
I may have some food for thought for the future. It would be nice to have a quick way to find a shuttle into town. Some female thru hikers don't really like to hitchhike into town and are always looking for a safe ride. Then there's those days when it's pouring rain and all you want to do is get in town but who's going to stop and pick up a smelly soaking wet thru hiker. With your awesome app it would be as simple as just pressing the highlighted phone number.
Okay now I know I'm reaching for the stars but wouldn't it be cool also to have a way to know that I could get pizza delivered to trailhead/crossings. You could call a mile out and just be waiting a little while for it to get delivered piping hot.
+1 another vote for both those ideas! I hope us male thru hikers will be allowed to use it as well. grin
wouldn't it just be a very simple line of code like if (goinSOBO) mileage=AT_length - NOBO_mileage ?
Yes-- that is more or less how it works, which is why it's going to take some doing to find out why it's not doing that on the databook view specifically in search mode. I'm also noticing that in Southbound mode, the databook still lists the waypoints in northbound order, though with southbound mileage. And the GPS puts the user in the wrong location when southbound in the data book, too. Time for more debugging :-)
I have the thru hiker PCT package (android) and noticed that many waypoints seem to not have photos. I realize that not all waypoints have photos but I recall more photos the last time I browsed the app. So I cleared all data from the cache and re downloaded photos and still not seeing photos. For example, in the SoCal section, there is not photo appearing for the Saddlebqck junction waypoint at Saddle Junction/Devils Slide (mile 179.4) even though I know there is a photo since this is the screen shot featured in the Google play page for the app. See photo attached.
PS: I'm cyber hiking today.
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SteelCut
12-20-2014, 17:06
I have both the AT and Florida Trail apps. I find that when I reverse trail directions, the mileages listed to next reliable water are sometimes wildly incorrect. I would like to see those bugs fixed.
Oslohiker
12-20-2014, 19:59
That's a good suggestion for Guthook, but paper guides have this information. Of course, you could hike the trail without them but I would think paper is a lot quicker to reference, or safer than pulling out an expensive device in the rain.
Some people have water resistant devices (i.e. Sony), and do not want to cary a guide book at all, or have the guide books in pdfs. Peronally i am looking at the Sony xperia z3 compact tablet, that I think would be perfect for the AT.
alicebodnar
12-21-2014, 01:49
Hi there -- I just became aware of that issue and will post an update to the app tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience -- photos will be back after the next update. ~Alice (Guthook's Guide Android Developer)
I have the thru hiker PCT package (android) and noticed that many waypoints seem to not have photos. I realize that not all waypoints have photos but I recall more photos the last time I browsed the app. So I cleared all data from the cache and re downloaded photos and still not seeing photos. For example, in the SoCal section, there is not photo appearing for the Saddlebqck junction waypoint at Saddle Junction/Devils Slide (mile 179.4) even though I know there is a photo since this is the screen shot featured in the Google play page for the app. See photo attached.
PS: I'm cyber hiking today.
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JohnnySnook
12-21-2014, 06:09
Guthook ans Sly - thanks for your great work for those hiking the trail.
I personally do not want any pictures when a view your APP or trail guide. i want to experience the trail as it is. I want to be able to figure if I should make right or a left. If I makes wrong turn then I half to back track.
Its pretty sad people want pictures of a split in the trail! Why are you hiking? I mean you could just watch thousands of youtube videos showing every turn, rock, tree, and dead leaf on the trail.
Maybe we need two APPS for the AT! One for the hikers that actually experience the trail and one for those with that need to be guided at every turn, warned of water on the trail from rain, god forbid I didn't know a small creek was ahead, or sunny area so I can apply sun screen, help the shelter is full!, I've never set up my tent!.
Well I guess I could go on. Guess I'll just follow a paperback guide as the pictures on theses APP's will ruin the whole experience.
The youth should think about doing something on their own and not following pictures on their phones. Pretty sad in my mind.
I'm only 41 so I'm not against technology, but you are out hiking! Enjoy the wilderness! If you turn off your super phone you may actually see what life is all about!
I have both the AT and Florida Trail apps. I find that when I reverse trail directions, the mileages listed to next reliable water are sometimes wildly incorrect. I would like to see those bugs fixed.
Hey SteelCut. I found the problem a few weeks ago, so when the new update comes out, that will be a part of it. We're in the testing phase for the update a little ahead of schedule, happily. I'm anticipating a mid-January release.
Guthook ans Sly - thanks for your great work for those hiking the trail. I personally do not want any pictures when a view your APP or trail guide. i want to experience the trail as it is. I want to be able to figure if I should make right or a left. If I makes wrong turn then I half to back track. Its pretty sad people want pictures of a split in the trail! Why are you hiking? I mean you could just watch thousands of youtube videos showing every turn, rock, tree, and dead leaf on the trail. Maybe we need two APPS for the AT! One for the hikers that actually experience the trail and one for those with that need to be guided at every turn, warned of water on the trail from rain, god forbid I didn't know a small creek was ahead, or sunny area so I can apply sun screen, help the shelter is full!, I've never set up my tent!. Well I guess I could go on. Guess I'll just follow a paperback guide as the pictures on theses APP's will ruin the whole experience. The youth should think about doing something on their own and not following pictures on their phones. Pretty sad in my mind. I'm only 41 so I'm not against technology, but you are out hiking! Enjoy the wilderness! If you turn off your super phone you may actually see what life is all about!
Johnny, you can choose not to download the photos in any of the apps.
SteelCut
12-21-2014, 08:03
Hey SteelCut. I found the problem a few weeks ago, so when the new update comes out, that will be a part of it. We're in the testing phase for the update a little ahead of schedule, happily. I'm anticipating a mid-January release.
That's great to hear. I'll be looking forward to the updates.
Hi there -- I just became aware of that issue and will post an update to the app tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience -- photos will be back after the next update. ~Alice (Guthook's Guide Android Developer)
That's great news. I'll look forward to the update!
Johnny, I use the app for planning purposes and my phone will be off for most of the PCT. I found the Colorado Trail app useful this year at times. You could choose to not even download photos. The situation isn't as binary as you make it seem.
Just got section 1 for the AT and it looks awesome. Im doing Davenport Gap to Springer in March and its exactly section one of the app. Can't wait to use it!
While checking out the app the first thing I thought of was having the ability of deleting some of the comments in the trail register. I suppose having the choice to delete certain photos, such as the one with car and road at Neel Gap would be a nice option as well.
While checking out the app the first thing I thought of was having the ability of deleting some of the comments in the trail register. I suppose having the choice to delete certain photos, such as the one with car and road at Neel Gap would be a nice option as well.
Good point, Sly. One of my goals is to get better pics for most of the waypoints in the app. The ones for Neel's Gap really need improvement. Allowing the user to delete individual photos could be tricky, but it's definitely possible.
Deleting individual register entries would be much simpler. I can take a look at that option soon.
I'm starting the final testing for the new maps and photos system, so I posted a little video of what it will look like here: http://youtu.be/Su5icHu-GRM
Once that update is out, I'll get to work on more of the suggestions and other new features that I've had on the back burner.
bamboo bob
12-30-2014, 19:06
I love our Apps. Have Maine and Colorado and Wyoming. When you get to a road it would be good to know where it goes right there. For instance; Cumbre Pass on the CDT. When you get to the pass the map says Highway 17. If the guide said Left X miles to Chama right 50 miles to Wherever. THAT would save some hastle. Also town maps for each town. Basically all the stuff that Yogi does in the map. That would be worth paying more for too.