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FFTorched
10-23-2005, 20:36
I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves, and was wondering what people with military backgrounds think of it, if it's worth it or not. Now I don't need the money for college, but would like the life experience, I just want to try a little bit of everything and really experience life. I am probably only going to enlist for the shortest amount of time and if I like it I could re-enlist. I'm just curious to hear what people have to say.

PROFILE
10-23-2005, 20:49
I think it is an excellent idea. Just remember you can't just quit. Also never believe a recruiter. Not saying they will lie they just may not tell the whole story. If I were to do it over i would get a list of all MOS (jobs), and read them. Some the title alone will eliminate others may take more reading. This will take time but well worth it. Once you find the MOS hold out for it. Do not take seconds.

There are a lot of good MOSes. Some are just fun others can provide careers on the outside.

fiddlehead
10-23-2005, 20:50
I hated the Navy! Big Time. i would never do it if i had the choice again.
I could've spent those 4 years doing something useful.
I spent most of my time in the bilges working on old rusty pumps in black, oily bilge water. 16 hours a day. for what?

Spartan Hiker
10-23-2005, 20:52
I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves, and was wondering what people with military backgrounds think of it, if it's worth it or not. Now I don't need the money for college, but would like the life experience, I just want to try a little bit of everything and really experience life. I am probably only going to enlist for the shortest amount of time and if I like it I could re-enlist. I'm just curious to hear what people have to say.
You have mail.

Just Jeff
10-23-2005, 21:08
Depends on what you're looking for and what kind of job you get. I've done some amazing things that other folks would hate, and I've hated some of the things that other folks would love.

Overall, I think it's a great experience and I'd recommend it. PM me if you want more details.

SGT Rock
10-23-2005, 21:11
I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves, and was wondering what people with military backgrounds think of it, if it's worth it or not. Now I don't need the money for college, but would like the life experience, I just want to try a little bit of everything and really experience life. I am probably only going to enlist for the shortest amount of time and if I like it I could re-enlist. I'm just curious to hear what people have to say.
Too hard to answer without knowing you better. The military is not for everyone. Also, given my knowledge of the Reserves and NG, it can depend a lot on the unit as to if you are going to like it. My reccomendation would be to vist any unit you plan on joing at their drill before enlisting in that unit. This is one benifit in enlisting in the NG and reserves over the regular Army.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2005, 21:24
Consider The United States Marine Corps.

Moxie00
10-23-2005, 21:43
I loved the Air Force, flew fighters, ate 3 hot meals a day, slept in a bed every night. Alot of my friends didn't fare as well as I did. Some got shot down, crashed, got killed or captured, but thats the chance you take with any branch of the service during a war. If you can get into flight school with any branch I would recommend it. My sister in law's son flies for the Marines and just loves it. The Army Reserve has a great pilot program and you don't even have to be an officer.

sierraDoug
10-24-2005, 01:17
Some got shot down, crashed, got killed or captured, but thats the chance you take with any branch of the service during a war.
I've never been in the military, but, to state what ought to be obvious, you never know when there will be a war. And I doubt you can be sure to join a unit that would never be sent into a war. It not's just a new experience like joining the Peace Corps or getting a job on a freighter... always remember you could be sent into the line of fire.

My two cents.

Newb
10-24-2005, 09:37
I just got out of the Air Force after 10 1/2 years. It was the time of my life. Don't worry about Basic training too much...it's just a head game. Check your ego at the door and go with the flow and you'll be fine. Oh, and Never volunteer for anything unless there's:
A) a chance to drink beer when the task is done
B) a free meal involved
C) a chance to meet girls

And just think, when you're all done and your military career is over you'll have combat boot ankles like the rest of us veterans. (That means that after years of wearing combat boots you wont have any hair from mid calf down to your feet, it's a dead giveaway that a person is a veteran).

cheers!

Newb
10-24-2005, 09:39
always remember you could be sent into the line of fire.

My two cents.
Getting shot at isn't that aweful, it's getting hit that ruins your day.

Rockjock
10-24-2005, 09:44
I have to answer first with an "of course it is worth it". Although treating it as a life experience you may not be prepared for what it trully is and that is that it is a sacrifice.

I have army running through my blood, but I chose to attend a military college to "try it out" and then decide. There are many benfits to this approach but here are the top three:
1. You can get out at any time.
2. You earn a college degree.
3. You can join a Reserve/NG unit while at college making valuable time in grade as well as beer money.

When I finished I was a comissioned officer who also had the insight of the enlisted personel (very valuable). So my answer is a resounding yes I would do it all over again the only catchy part, which has already been mentioned, is to pay attention and get the MOS you would really like. In the gaurd and reserves this may be a little more tricky then Reg. Army just because of unit redistribution and what is available in your area. But do not let the recruiter coerce you into a choice that may make you time in wretched.

Rock On

Spartan Hiker
10-24-2005, 10:34
I have army running through my blood, but I chose to attend a military college to "try it out" and then decide. There are many benfits to this approach but here are the top three:
1. You can get out at any time.
Not to nitpick, but in the interest of full disclosure, that may or may not be true, depending on individual circumstances and certainly will not be true over time. You'll be raising your right hand entering your junior year, at a minimum. At that point you are a member of the armed forces of the United States. If you decide to quit the program at that point, you are still in the Individual Ready Reserve and subject to call up. If you accept an ROTC scholarship at any point, you incur an obligation to serve, whether you complete you degree and meet commissioning requirements or not.

If you participate in your freshman and sophomore years and are not under scholarship, then yes, you can walk away at any point.

Rockjock
10-24-2005, 11:21
"Not to nitpick" but no where did I state that the said individual had joined ROTC. At military colleges around the US ROTC service is not manditory. Of course 90% of people who attend these schools do join ROTC but if you choose not to you can still reap all the benefits w/o actual class time. You're just a non- contracted student.

In any case, with ROTC that is true that by the end of first semester Junior year you must decide and raise your right hand but you have had 2 full years prior to commiting to determine whether or not mil life is for you or not (vs. just joining the NG/RSV with no exit option).

Spartan Hiker
10-24-2005, 11:45
"Not to nitpick" but no where did I state that the said individual had joined ROTC. At military colleges around the US ROTC service is not manditory. Of course 90% of people who attend these schools do join ROTC but if you choose not to you can still reap all the benefits w/o actual class time. You're just a non- contracted student.

In any case, with ROTC that is true that by the end of first semester Junior year you must decide and raise your right hand but you have had 2 full years prior to commiting to determine whether or not mil life is for you or not (vs. just joining the NG/RSV with no exit option).
Thanks for clearing that distinction up.

Just Jeff
10-24-2005, 13:06
... always remember you could be sent into the line of fire.
Very true. But then, some of us volunteer to deploy several times. It's just part of the job.

That's coming from an AF guy...I've voluntarily gone into danger, but not getting shot at like the Army guys driving around Baghdad. Still, I'd volunteer for a year in Baghdad, and I just had an NCO volunteer to go play Army for a year over there. Aside from being an AF girl in an Army unit ( :eek: ), she says it's not so bad...just part of what we signed up to do.

It's a good point to keep in mind, though...you're signing up for something serious, not just an experience. Unless you're an adrenaline junky!

Footslogger
10-24-2005, 14:20
Never considered the Reserves when I went in back in 1968. Enlisted, did my 3 active and then spent 3 in the inactive reserves. As I recall, the Reservists took a lot of grief in Basic (along with the NG), as compared with the regular Army enlistees. Course that was back in the late 60's.

I have to agree with one earlier comment ...if you do choose to join the reserves be sure (in writing) that you get a good school/MOS. Recruiters will tell you darn near anything to get a signature. That way, regardless of your experience while you're IN you'll come out with a marketable skill. I spent 3 years in the Airborne. Learned 101 ways to kill someone and how to fall out of planes. Not too many job opportunities for me when I got out though.

'Slogger

neo
10-24-2005, 14:51
i am glad i did 4 years in the us navy 78-82,a great life experince:cool: neo

SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 15:28
I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves, and was wondering what people with military backgrounds think of it, if it's worth it or not. Now I don't need the money for college, but would like the life experience, I just want to try a little bit of everything and really experience life. I am probably only going to enlist for the shortest amount of time and if I like it I could re-enlist. I'm just curious to hear what people have to say.
Let me give you some professional advice as one that once did the job of a recruiter and put some folks in the Army Reserves.

1 - There is a difference between Army Reserves and the Army National Guard. The Reserves are a federal agency that are made up of mostly specialized jobs that are not needed full time by the Army but are needed in a war. You would be under Federal control and are more likely to go to a war or activation for federal needs than a ANG member, but on the other hand you are less likely to be called for a state emergency.

2 - The Army Reserves are always an 8 year enlistment. The enlistment is usually 6 years active reserves and 2 years inactive reserves. Active reserves means you drill 2 days a month, and 2 weeks in the summer. Inactive means you are on a list somewhere. If you are on active service and there is a call-up, you are on until released. If you are on the list, you are subject to call up based on the need by the Army for someone in your job specialty.

3 - When you join the reserves, you join into a unit directly. There is no "Delayed Entry Program" it is called the "Delayed Training Program". So when you enlist, you are normally expected to start attending drill even before basic in order to help you prepare for basic and AIT. There are some exemptions for people like HS Seniors who can wait until after training to start drill. The Contract for Reservists starts on the enlistment date, unlike RA contracts which start on the ship date to training.

4 - Since you join directly into a unit on Reserve status, you can - if you push it, visit the unit and find out what is going on and what the unit's mission and short term schedule looks like before you contract. This can be tricky since you normally have to pass the written exam and then the physical to find out if you are qualified for the jobs prior to contracting. And when you do all that, the guidance counselor (not your recruiter) will typically want you to join that same day by showing you a list of jobs and positions available. A good USAR recruiter may be able to forecast where you can get in and get you a visit prior to the physical date so you can already lock in what you want to do. To help with this, ask to take the ASVAB prior to going to take a physical and see what jobs you qualify for.

5 - Jobs, education, travel, and whatever else you may see as benefits for joining can vary based on what unit and job you get. Not everything is equal. If you notice there are a lot of "as long as you qualify, the option is available, and vacancies exists" in the literature and sales pitches.

6 - Some recruiters are great guys doing a thankless ****ty job (worst one I ever had) and do their best to tell you everything they think you ought to know. And some recruiters are borderline user personalities that survive on the job by telling you whatever they think it will take to get you to join. You have to watch out, and I will tell you the worst crook I ever saw in my time had all his applicants snowed so bad they thought everyone else was the problem instead of his lying, cheating ass. So your gut instinct on a recruiter may not be a good warning on their intent. Really, the good guys are in the majority, but the ******** make it bad for a lot of people, but especially applicants. Watch your ass.

7 - If you feel you are getting a raw deal, go find another USAR recruiter. They can all put you into the same units. No one (no matter what they might say) is the only recruiter you can use unless you are a High School senior.

Ask more questions if you want as you go through the process. I'm hear for you brother.

Moxie00
10-24-2005, 16:36
I've never been in the military, but, to state what ought to be obvious, you never know when there will be a war. And I doubt you can be sure to join a unit that would never be sent into a war. It not's just a new experience like joining the Peace Corps or getting a job on a freighter... always remember you could be sent into the line of fire.

My two cents.It may be obvious today but back during Vietnam, my time, that was not the case. The National Guard, especially the Air National Guard just wasn't called up for active duty. Guardsmen that wanted to volunteer for active service in the war zone had to get a release from their State commander and that was a very difficult thing to do as the State had paid for your training. Some reserve units were called up but no Guard Units went on extended active duty during Vietnam. A friend was a pilot with the New Hampshire National Guard and he flew cargo missions into Vietnam but right after each mission went back to civilian ststus. Read the history of the time, that war was fought by regulars and Guardsmen were nice and safe in their units. Even fighter jocks like George W. Bush was able to aviod active duty by joining the Guard. Dan Quale, same deal. The same President that used the Guard to stay out of a war today calld up the Guard to fight this war and they are doing an honorable job. Between Korea and The Gulf War the National Guard was a nice safe place to serve.

Spartan Hiker
10-24-2005, 17:25
It may be obvious today but back during Vietnam, my time, that was not the case. The National Guard, especially the Air National Guard just wasn't called up for active duty.Not true.

http://www.ang.af.mil/history/Heritage/VietnamWar.asp



Some reserve units were called up but no Guard Units went on extended active duty during Vietnam.Not true.

http://www.ngef.org/custom/ngmobilizations.asp



Read the history of the time, that war was fought by regulars and Guardsmen were nice and safe in their units.Mostly true.


Even fighter jocks like George W. Bush was able to aviod active duty by joining the Guard. Dan Quale, same deal.FWIW, John Kerry, along with thousands of other Americans used the same deferment process also.
The same President that used the Guard to stay out of a war today calld up the Guard to fight this war and they are doing an honorable job.Good call on his part, given the amount of tax dollars spent over the past 20 years on training, equipping and integrating the Guard and Reserve into the Total Force. And yes, they are doing an honorable job.


Between Korea and The Gulf War the National Guard was a nice safe place to serve.And still is, for some.

Moxie00
10-25-2005, 09:11
Not true.


Not true.

Mostly true.

. And yes, they are doing an honorable job.

And still is, for some.Sorry, bad choice of words on my part. Of course Narional Guard units were called up. During training I remember ferrying some Army Guardsmen into Mississippi that had been called to active duty to help integrate the University of Mississippi. Wasn't that a National Guard unit that had been called up that fired on the unarmed students at Kent State? They have been called up during floods and other natural disasters. Some have been placed on active duty to replace units sent into a danger zone. What I should have said was no National Guard units were sent into a combat situation between Korea and The Gulf War. During Vietnam it was almost impossible for a Guardsman to be transfered to a unit in combat but some were successful. A top fighter pilot who was a Major and a friend of mine resigned from the New Jersey Guard, transfered to the reserves and was then able to fly in Vietnam. Another popular route for Guardsmen with an aviation rating was Air America and contrary to popular belief that outfit accomplished quite a mission in Southeast Asia. The history of what they did will never be known but unlike the movie they accomplished alot.

SGT Rock
10-25-2005, 09:55
What I should have said was no National Guard units were sent into a combat situation between Korea and The Gulf War
Also not true. Here is one famous unit of NG in Vietnam: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/art/225/INRGRS.htm

icemanat95
10-25-2005, 14:50
Coast Guard was deployed to offshore patrols in Vietnamn as well. In WWII, the equivalent of National Guard troops were activated and transfered to active duty and deployed as well, same in WWI and The Spanish American War, the Civil War and the War of 1812. In truth, there were very few "Regular Army" units maintained under full federal control until WWII. Prior to that, the regular military was comparitively small and required significant bolstering from state raised volunteer units to reach critical fighting mass.

However. During Vietnam, National Guardsmen were far less likely to see war service than their Regular Army counterparts, though even then, with the Cold War in full swing, a very large proportion of active duty troops were stationed in Europe. I know quite a few Vietnam Era veterans who never set foot in Southeast Asia.

Since Vietnam, and more particularly since the middle 1980's the US military has been significantly re-organized to take much better advantage of the full spectrum of military units maintained primarily by federal tax dollars. Reserve and National Guard units have become a critical component of the warfighting force, and their training and equipment reflects this. Today we have reserve and National Guard special operations teams including Special Forces, SEALs, and Air Force Special Tactics Teams, who get forward deployed alongside their active service counterparts, and following pre-deployment refresher training, their performance is deemed extremely good. The days when Reserve and National Guard component soldiers represented a lower-grade of soldier are gone.

Just Jeff
10-25-2005, 15:18
In Charleston, we took our Reserve guys with us every time we deployed...I don't think we could have sustained our ops tempo without them. We worked side-by-side and didn't really make any distinctions at all - we all did the same job with the same training.

B Thrash
10-26-2005, 20:16
Yea, go join the Army National Guard just like I did, they never went anywhere, just stayed at home, drilled two days a month and two weeks of annual training each year and that was it. Wrong, the first year I was in I was sent to Equador to help build a highway in the Andes, the next year sent to Germany to help build a Battle Book for a Maintenance Battalion in case Russia wanted to invade Germany thru the Fulta Gap. In 1990 the unit I was in received orders to be mobilized to the Persain Gulf for one year along with three Maintenance Companies within my Battalion, upon returning my unit assisted another Maintenance Company with their mobilization to Bosina for one year.
We received several more missions in Equador, Panama, Humantiran Relief after Hurricane Mitch hit Hondurias. One of the Maintenance Companies in my Battalion is on State Active Duty right now in New Orleans patrolling the streets. And o'yes my Higher Headquarters is returning in a couple of weeks from a year in Iraq but the Army National Guard never goes anywhere. Another point to consider is that the Army National Guard has a duel misssion - State/Federal.

NICKTHEGREEK
10-26-2005, 20:35
I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves, and was wondering what people with military backgrounds think of it, if it's worth it or not. Now I don't need the money for college, but would like the life experience, I just want to try a little bit of everything and really experience life. I am probably only going to enlist for the shortest amount of time and if I like it I could re-enlist. I'm just curious to hear what people have to say.
Patriotism and all the good things about service aside, before you go in find out exactly what it takes to get out. Reserves and NG ain't what they used to be.
Serving in the Navy from 67 to 76 was the best thing I did. For some it was the last thing they did.

Olive Drab
11-16-2005, 00:52
You will be deployed. Make sure you are up for that. Iraq is no joke and I lost a few buddies while there. Also lost some of my hearing.

Olive Drab
11-16-2005, 00:56
Never considered the Reserves when I went in back in 1968. Enlisted, did my 3 active and then spent 3 in the inactive reserves. As I recall, the Reservists took a lot of grief in Basic (along with the NG), as compared with the regular Army enlistees. Course that was back in the late 60's.
'SloggerYour info is about 40 years old. I went through Infantry OSUT in Spring/summer of 01 and this wasnt the case. I believe I remember hearing my drill sgt say once "dont laugh at your battle buddies because they are national guard. When this is over they go home and you go to a duty station chosen by the needs of the army"

hawkeye
11-16-2005, 13:29
I did 25 years,7 in the regular Army the rest full time National Guard. I was in aviation and loved it. I found the Guard to be more tight knit than my Active duty units.(except for the Cav Sgt Rock!) Right now my old unit is deployed in the sand. In the Guard it is not if your going, but when.

Nightwalker
11-16-2005, 13:48
Never considered the Reserves when I went in back in 1968. Enlisted, did my 3 active and then spent 3 in the inactive reserves. As I recall, the Reservists took a lot of grief in Basic (along with the NG), as compared with the regular Army enlistees. Course that was back in the late 60's.Same in the late 70's.


I have to agree with one earlier comment ...if you do choose to join the reserves be sure (in writing) that you get a good school/MOS. Recruiters will tell you darn near anything to get a signature. That way, regardless of your experience while you're IN you'll come out with a marketable skill. I spent 3 years in the Airborne. Learned 101 ways to kill someone and how to fall out of planes. Not too many job opportunities for me when I got out though.

'SloggerWell, not legal ones...

:D

sparky2000
11-16-2005, 13:57
To add the simple to the complex - the babies are free in the military if 1)your a female or 2) your married. Men are still excluded from the joy.

G.I. JOE
11-16-2005, 15:30
I've been in the Guard for 8 years. I've been to 3 different countries, and 26 different states with them. A week here and a month there. I have learnt a whole heck of alot, and met all kinds of people. Some good and some bad. It takes alot to get used to the life style. Drill weekends some times seam like they are getting in the way but it is worth it. I have enjoyed my time in and will continue with my career in the guard. I currently work full-time as a civilian in the uniform otherwise know as Military Technician. I leave early JAN. for a month to attend WOCS (Warrent Officer Canidate School). As far as I know on the guard side you have to sign for 8 years (6 drilling and 2 inactive). The sign up bonuses are very high right now and can fund a future thru hike. If you have any questions on specifics reply.

G.I. JOE
11-16-2005, 15:35
I'm currently in a ARTY BN that served two tours in Vietnam and one in the GULF the first time.

Olive Drab
11-16-2005, 15:41
Did you do that convoy escort mission in Iraq or regular Arty stuff?
Ive never seen more arty wasted than I did in Iraq as a "scare me" tactic. I rememeber one day we stopped off by the Airport in one of the compounds there and after business was done we went to the Big PX at Camp Liberty/Victory north. These Paladins were firing the whole time. I Ask whats going on because it was over 20 minutes of sustained firing and was told that "they are doing firing sequence 3 at grid x" which equated to blasting empty palm groves to the west.

SGT Rock
11-16-2005, 17:31
Did you do that convoy escort mission in Iraq or regular Arty stuff?
Ive never seen more arty wasted than I did in Iraq as a "scare me" tactic. I rememeber one day we stopped off by the Airport in one of the compounds there and after business was done we went to the Big PX at Camp Liberty/Victory north. These Paladins were firing the whole time. I Ask whats going on because it was over 20 minutes of sustained firing and was told that "they are doing firing sequence 3 at grid x" which equated to blasting empty palm groves to the west.
Is BIAP still where Victory is? There was a Victory camp on BIAP when I was there. The reason I bring it up is because in 2004 we were having planes fired a from the palm groves and farm areas on the west side of BIAP. As well as the occasional mad mortarman or rocket fire. They brought our E Troop over there to do some night patrols and ambushes over there to break it up. We lost a couple of guys in that part of the desert. Anyway, if it is the same area, that sustained fire could have had a "target" to impress our abilities upon.

Footslogger
11-16-2005, 17:52
[quote=Olive Drab]Your info is about 40 years old.
======================================
Astute observation ...since I am 56. Guess times have changed. Most everything else has. I just called it the way I remembered it.

'Slogger

G.I. JOE
11-16-2005, 20:53
Due to the fact that I am a WOC (Warrent Officer Canidate) I could not deploy. There is no room for a Maintenance Officer in a MP Unit. The BN deployed as MPs performing convoy security.

Olive Drab
11-16-2005, 21:06
Is BIAP still where Victory is? There was a Victory camp on BIAP when I was there. The reason I bring it up is because in 2004 we were having planes fired a from the palm groves and farm areas on the west side of BIAP. As well as the occasional mad mortarman or rocket fire. They brought our E Troop over there to do some night patrols and ambushes over there to break it up. We lost a couple of guys in that part of the desert. Anyway, if it is the same area, that sustained fire could have had a "target" to impress our abilities upon.
BIAP, Victory, Seitz, liberty, camp sather, blackhawk, slayer, a few others, RPC, and a compound I forget the name but has a castle on a hill where we were in said story.
Maybe sometimes but this day was not the case. They were blowing up empty palmgroves. This is pretty common actually as my buddy up in Baqubah in Warhorse was telling me the same thing goes on there.
Mad Mortarmen. Got a funny story about one. Maybe you have heard it.
Some Iraqi was a raging alcoholic. He would get drunk and shake his fists as the infidels drove by. OFten in his drunken stupors he would set up a 120mm mortar in his yard.
His abilities were hindered and often it was set up wrong. He did get a few good shots in, one blowing up a house on FOB Gabe. He would fire a shot or two and put it away. Sometimes he set the thing up with such a low take off angle that it almost took out his neighbors house so they got in touch with the Americans somehow and someone came and picked him up.
As they went to snatch him he ran out of the house and curled up on an object. They all yelled "grenade" and dropped back. Turns out it was a bottle of whiskey. this guy has problems
So they bring him in for interrogation. CI has their way with him and keeps questioning why does he do it. He says he likes the Americans but waves his fist in anger and often gets drunk to play with the mortar. CI thinks the whole alcohol thing is an act and keeps interrogating. Eventually they decide that he isnt an insurgent and just some dude with a drinking problem, so they let him go.
Just one of those stranger than truth stories that are out there.

BTW I am guessing you were with TF Baghdad, 1st CAV?

Olive Drab
11-16-2005, 21:09
IF you were with Cav, good job with pinpointing POO from IDF. 1CD had it down pat and POO was determined in under 30 secs (usully around 10 secs of hearing the boom) and kiowas on the scene within a minute or two.
3rd ID was another story...

stickman
11-16-2005, 21:35
I did ROTC in college for four years, did two years active duty in the Army, then some years in the Army Reserve, and don't regret a minute of it. Even my tour in Vietnam. I admit, it took a few years to feel that way about Nam, but now I'm proud of my service and I realize I saw a beautifyl country and met some beautiful people I never would have seen but for the Army. And that's not even counting the buddies I will never forget!

My son is now in the Army, serving with theh 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Brag and soon going to Ranger School. The Army has done amazing things for him in the year since he tried college and found he just wasn't ready for it. Based on his experience and what I've seen at his graduation from Basic, airborne school, etc., the military today is far more professional and far better than it was in my era.

If I were doing it again, I would strongly consider going into the regular Army or one of the other branches for at least the minimum enlistment, rather than the Reserves or the Guard. In my opinion, you are likely to get better training after Basic, and the chance for assignments to interesting places (Europe, Japan, etc) is much higher in the regular forces.

As Rock said, the military isn't for everyone, and as several people said, you run some risk of being killed, whatever branch you go into. That is truely tragic. But life isn't risk free for civilians, either.

Finally, of all the military and ex-military guys I have ever talked to, it is a tiny minority who said they really wished they hadn't gone in or counted the time spent in uniform as really wasted. Lots of us gripe about aspects of it, and some guys really didn't like it, but most feel the experience was positive on balance.

Good luck with your decision. Just follow your gut and you'll be fine.

Stickman

Olive Drab
11-17-2005, 00:05
If i was going in at a time of war, it would be Active. I cant see going in for education money or into the reserves period at this point especially if you own a business or are in school. How can you go to school for two semesters, get pulled out half way through your third and activated for 2 years and THEN go back? Thats nuts, and if you are in engineering, math, physics, accounting or some other degree where every course builds on the pre req you will be lost. At least with active you can take some online classes in between trips but when its time to go, its time to go and your life isnt on hold.
If i owned a store and got called to go how would I handle this? the business may fold. If you are a reservist now my hats off to you because there are a lot of things on your plate that someone on Active duty wouldnt have to deal with.

SGT Rock
11-17-2005, 00:44
Nope. I was with 2d ACR. My troop had Sadyr City on the east side of town. When they kept having problems at BIAP, they brought E Troop over from my Squadron (2/2 ACR) over because of the dike system and the fact that Bradley were having a hard time trying to manuver over in that area. But E Troop in our old HMMWVs were perfect or moving around quietly in that terrain. We were over there from March 2003 to April 2004. We originally set up in Najaf until Baghdad fell then relieved 1st MEF from the east side of Army Canal Road in about May 2003. In March 2004 1st Cav relieved us.

When I was there, the 3rd ID was a good unit, 1AD was another story, but I think General Sanchez was a major part of that issue.

bfitz
11-17-2005, 05:02
6 - Some recruiters are great guys doing a thankless ****ty job (worst one I ever had) and do their best to tell you everything they think you ought to know. And some recruiters are borderline user personalities that survive on the job by telling you whatever they think it will take to get you to join. You have to watch out, and I will tell you the worst crook I ever saw in my time had all his applicants snowed so bad they thought everyone else was the problem instead of his lying, cheating ass. So your gut instinct on a recruiter may not be a good warning on their intent. Really, the good guys are in the majority, but the ******** make it bad for a lot of people, but especially applicants. Watch your ass.
Rock...do these guys work on commission or something? Whats the cause of this phenomena?

justusryans
11-17-2005, 08:57
I'm not sure about commissions, Sarge will know the answer to that. I believe they have Quota's though.

SGT Rock
11-17-2005, 08:58
No, they don't work on commission. And that is a good thing IMO. No, in this guys case, and some of the cases of worst offenders, they have a personality type that enjoys manipulating others. Put someone like that in this sort of position and it becomes a game to them. Also, there are so many bad incentives for personal career survival that even good people will sometimes do stupid things because they get pressure all the time from the command. It creates the true ethical dilemma - when two deeply held beliefs collide. In my experience the worst part about recruiting was the chain of command for recruiting command.

SGT Rock
11-17-2005, 09:07
I'm not sure about commissions, Sarge will know the answer to that. I believe they have Quota's though.
They are not called Quotas, they are called missions. Same difference though. My "mission" was also not just as simple as 2 people, it would be based on education, test scores, and gender. So I might get a mission of one Graduate Male Alpha, ad one Senior Female Alpha. Alpha is someone that scores a 3A or higher on the ASVAB (50-99). If I were to put in a prior service and non-graduate, they wouldn't cover any part of my mission - so I would still have to find two more people that month that met my mission requirements.

It is a lot harder than one might think.

bfitz
11-17-2005, 09:35
Yeah, but...what if you don't find anyone that makes the cut? What are the consequences for failure?

oruoja
11-17-2005, 15:32
Interesting topic. I was in the army reserves from '79 to '83 and then went active USAF for ten years. Last year after looking at my records and calculating my retirement points I decided to come back in and I am now in the Army National Guard. I'm pulling active duty time (ADSW) both in Alaska and now in Vermont after doing an interstate transfer. My son, who is a freshman in college also signed up and he just finished basic this summer. He will be going the ROTC route and will get a guaranteed reserve forces scholarship so while he is in school he is not deployable. I guess the message behind all of this is that there are numerous options available and there are some good deals available if one is able to assume the inherent risk of serving in the military. I have to say that when I left active duty back in '92 when the military was downsizing due the so called "peace dividend" at the end of the Cold War and I went into the civilain labor force I found the level of B.S. to not only be equal to but exceeding that of anything I put up with in the service. The service is not for everyone, but after many years of experience in both the service (active and reserve), and the civilian sector, I can honestly say that any time spent in the armed forces is worth the effort and experience.

Seeker
11-17-2005, 18:33
Yeah, but...what if you don't find anyone that makes the cut? What are the consequences for failure?
my brother in law is a navy recruiter... it eventually gets you fired. black mark on your record, possible failure to get promoted in the future... not a really good system...
No, they don't work on commission. And that is a good thing IMO. No, in this guys case, and some of the cases of worst offenders, they have a personality type that enjoys manipulating others. Put someone like that in this sort of position and it becomes a game to them. Also, there are so many bad incentives for personal career survival that even good people will sometimes do stupid things because they get pressure all the time from the command. It creates the true ethical dilemma - when two deeply held beliefs collide. In my experience the worst part about recruiting was the chain of command for recruiting command.
this sounds like car sales... most dealers have a 10 car a month quota... pressure from management, the threat to your income, and a personality that enjoys manipulating others explains some unethical salesmen. i spent 15 months in the business... glad i'm out. did learn a lot of valuable stuff, and haven't "paid too much'' for a car ever since.

SGT Rock
11-17-2005, 18:42
Yeah, but...what if you don't find anyone that makes the cut? What are the consequences for failure?
Well it depends a lot on who isn't making mission. But it can include loss of any personal time, hazing disguised as performance training, adverse comments on performance evaluations that can end promotions or even later cause selection for separation from the service, and lots of little other digs they can throw in. They also have a great way of letting some things "slide" that wouldn't be tolerated in the rest of the force as long as you make mission, but they will sure use it against you latter if you start rolling donuts.

Nean
11-17-2005, 20:53
If you believe in the reasons we are at war, join. Otherwise there are better life experiences than losing your life for something you don't believe in. Good Luck

SGT Rock
11-17-2005, 21:02
If you believe in the reasons we are at war, join. Otherwise there are better life experiences than losing your life for something you don't believe in. Good Luck
Well actually you can still join and not agree we should be at war. The reasons to serve should not be at the wind of popular opinion one week to the next. If you had a military that jumped in and out every time they disagreed with a decision by a president, we would be up the creek as a country. Believe it or not, a lot of the same people that went to Kosovo and Bosnia hated that mission and the President that sent them there. I hope you get the point of that.

If that is the reason you stay out of the military, more power to you.

Anyway, you can loose your life any time doing just about anything. I guess I should stay off the roads because I don't like Mercedes but I could get killed by one?:confused: Or maybe I don't want to ever take the chance of getting eaten by a bear, so I should quit hiking?:cool:

justusryans
11-17-2005, 21:33
If you believe in the reasons we are at war, join. Otherwise there are better life experiences than losing your life for something you don't believe in. Good Luck

I believe in this Country. If they call me I will serve.

bfitz
11-18-2005, 03:54
I believe in this Country. If they call me I will serve.
:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

bfitz
11-18-2005, 03:54
But I sure hope they don't call me!

Nean
11-18-2005, 08:39
You Rock, SGT.
Exactly, Bfitz
Easy to say since the is no way you are going to go, Justusryans
I served my country, risked my life.... as I do everyday, anyways, SGT. Rock and would go anywhere they sent me... when I was in. However, I would not join now knowing there is a great chance I'd go to a war I do not believe in and kill (or be killed by) those I have nothing against. You of course, don't have that choice. The very young man asking for opinions does.

SGT Rock
11-18-2005, 08:50
Thanks for serving Nean.

I guess my point is sometimes we have to be in when times are bad too, just so we can do our part to maintain the sanity and hopefully the morality of our military. It is too easy to loose both in a war.

justusryans
11-18-2005, 08:56
You Rock, SGT.
Exactly, Bfitz
Easy to say since the is no way you are going to go, Justusryans
I served my country, risked my life.... as I do everyday, anyways, SGT. Rock and would go anywhere they sent me... when I was in. However, I would not join now knowing there is a great chance I'd go to a war I do not believe in and kill (or be killed by) those I have nothing against. You of course, don't have that choice. The very young man asking for opinions does.

I served my country, USN 1981-1985. One of the proudest moments of my life. My father served in Korea and Vietnam. He didn't agree with the war in Vietnam but he serves anyway. Three tours... I have applied for several jobs that would take me to Iraq with KBR. I recently applied to Blackwater for a job when my thru-hike is done next year. So far that is looking promising. If I get the job, I expect to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan.
So, why would I apply for a job in a warzone? Because it pays well, because it needs to be done, and because regardless of my personal feeling about the war, there are American Serviceman over there that need support services.
It's very easy to sit back in your comfy chair and be against the war, hell I'm against the war! It's something altogether different to forget that Americans are still dying over there every day. If I can contribute anything to their comfort and well being then I will.

Nean
11-18-2005, 09:33
Agreed, SGT. ROCK
Well said, JURyans. I stand corrected. And you are right, it is EASY to be against (or for) this war from where I sit. I'm sure there are lots of folks who sign up for the red, white and green. Regardless of why or how, I do respect your willingness to support our troops. Don't forget it's not JUAmericans that are dying everyday. Best wishes for a safe life experience.

bfitz
11-18-2005, 12:10
Going to war with a head clouded by propaganda and emotions like anger and hatred is the way to lose a war. A compassionate mind is the soldiers mind (or should be) because then, thinking clearly and with compassion force and violence will always be used properly, and is less likely to exceed the necessary level of violence to accomplish the job. I'm thinking shaolin monks and stuff right now. I believe it is out of compassion for others that we are in this war or at least that is why I have supported it. It's not about hate, or even believing the right or wrong for soldiers...its about doing a job, surviving with soul intact, and helping others both fellow soldiers, our own citizens and the people of the world in a situation that seems almost unexplainable. So far the wars we have fought as a nation have helped bring us closer to a "peaceful" world (whatever that is...). I don't know if peace is something real that we can ever have totally...but freedom is something we can have if we're willing to fight for it (over and over again...). I am glad that I have never been called upon to be that soldier...because I probably couldn't handle it. Hell, I can't handle bad traffic. But I'm grateful to them. If this young guy can come to terms with all that then he'll be an asset to the world if he joins the reserves. The rest of us should be in the airport with balloons, know what I mean?

Vi+
01-05-2006, 17:14
You advise, “I'm considering enlisting in the Army Reserves ...” and wonder whether “... it's worth it or not.”

You need to understand one thing FULLY; everything is subject to change. My experiences might be entirely different if I tried to relive them today. Your experience may be entirely different if you enlist today instead of tomorrow; different tomorrow than if you enlist the next day. All of our guessing, all your guessing is just a glorified crap shoot.

My story.

I found college to be a disappointment and decided to move to Mexico; learn Spanish, get a job, live there. I mean LIVE there, develop an entire life. A friend of mine asked about my plans and asked to join me. O.K. A friend of his wanted to join. O.K. They both pulled out at the last minute, after all my plans had been designed to include them.

A friend introduced me to a friend of his, home on leave from Viet Nam, who had some special forces experiences he could tell; this during a time when virtually no one had even heard the name “Viet Nam.”

I saw the world’s greatest recruiting movie - “The Guns of Navarone.” I call it the greatest recruiting movie, since it recruited me.

This was during the era of the military draft. I didn’t like the dark cloud of servitude which would hang over my head, ready to disrupt my life without notice. I joined the U.S. Army; I guess I showed "them."

I joined the army for special forces. The recruiter honestly advised he could only assure me access to Airborne training and after that I was on my own.

You couldn’t volunteer for special forces training until Airborne Training, “jump school.” My second day in jump school I reported to the special forces recruiter and told him of my interest. He advised me to come back, during “Jump Week,” after I had a couple of jumps. I returned at the appointed time. His office was closed, with a note on the door, that he was attending a conference at Fort Bragg and would return at another time.

I completed jump school and received orders to an airborne infantry unit in Germany. The special forces recruiter at jump school couldn’t overrule assignment orders for training. He advised, 10th Special Forces Group is in Germany, and recruits its members from other army units in Europe. He suggested I report as assigned and let 10th Group know I wanted to join.

I eventually got there.

The people there were among the best I have ever worked with. They were professionals. No one ever discussed whether Viet Nam or any other place was “justified,” “right,” “moral” or anything else. These are but places where soldiers are expected to do their job. There were, incidentally, many other places for soldiers to do their jobs; we were active on several different continents. Some soldiers died, some of them horribly, others did not. We were in places we weren’t supposed to be, doing things we weren’t supposed to do; all the combat dead aren’t always reported, medals aren’t always given, nor is there always extra pay

I left the army, realizing I had no marketable knowledge, skills, or abilities, so I returned to college and earned a degree.

As to your curiosity, there are no guarantees; even those made in good faith. I had an interesting time. Some, if they could speak, might say "it" wasn't worth it.

It’s your life, not mine, not anyone else's.

Footslogger
01-05-2006, 17:31
[quote=Vi+]I completed jump school and received orders to an airborne infantry unit in Germany. The special forces recruiter at jump school couldn’t overrule assignment orders for training. He advised, 10th Special Forces Group is in Germany, and recruits its members from other army units in Europe. He suggested I report as assigned and let 10th Group know I wanted to join.
===============================
So ...who were you with in Germany ?? I was with 1/509th and spent some SD as cadre at the divisional jump school Did some stuff with the 10th SF group out of Bad Tolz.

'Slogger
US Army Airborne - 1968/1971

Vi+
01-05-2006, 19:42
'Slogger,

You ask, “... who were you with in Germany?”

I was in the army from 1962 to 1965. I’m not sure I recall the correct nomenclature for the unit in which I served. It was in Mainz where there were two such units on the post at the time. I may have been in the 1st of the 504th. The other unit may have been the 2nd of the 505th.

I went to 10th SFG, 1st SF. There were two locations at that time, one of which was Bad Toelz (without the umlaut).

I’m unfamiliar with “the divisional jump school.” I recall we put a jump school together to start up a German commando unit. We eliminated all the harassment - which I’m sure you enjoyed at Benning as much as I - but the dropout rate was so high the unit was disbanded. I’ve forgotten the unit name. The local paper was appalled and soundly chastised the German soldiers.

Is “'Slogger” as close as you get to style points for your walking?

Footslogger
01-05-2006, 20:26
'Slogger,

You ask, “... who were you with in Germany?”

I was in the army from 1962 to 1965. I’m not sure I recall the correct nomenclature for the unit in which I served. It was in Mainz where there were two such units on the post at the time.
I’m unfamiliar with “the divisional jump school.” I recall we put a jump school together to start up a German commando unit. We eliminated all the harassment - which I’m sure you enjoyed at Benning as much as I - but the dropout rate was so high the unit was disbanded. I’ve forgotten the unit name. The local paper was appalled and soundly chastised the German soldiers.

Is “'Slogger” as close as you get to style points for your walking?
=======================================
If you were in Mainz it was most likely either the 1st or 2nd Batalion of the 509th. I was in the 1/509th. We were headquartered at Lee Barracks in Mainz and attached to the 8th Infantry Div.

As far as the jump school went ...I guess prior to my getting there the 8th Div decided they needed a jump school to catch the legs that escaped stateside duty without passing through Benning, the site of the aformentioned harrassment you mentioned. The jump school was located at the airbase in Wiesbaden. Wasn't bad duty. During my assignment there we exchanged 8 soldiers with the Bundeswher. They went through our jump school and we went through theirs in order to get each others jump wings. We went to a town called "Calw" down by the French border. We trained and jumped with commandos in the 25th Falchirmjager Brigade. Jumped the NorAtlas aircraft. Kinda like the old C118's but the doors came off the hinges. Crazy jumpmasters put us in over trees and we had to use some of those "alternate" landing techniques we had learned way back when.

Anyway ...the 'Slogger comes from my trail name, which I located during a web search. The name refers to an old foot soldier, which I definitely am and it is a very appropriate way to describe the style of hiking we used in 2003 in the rain. Maybe "MudSlogger" would have even been better.

'Slogger

Vi+
01-05-2006, 21:42
'Slogger,

“NorAtlas aircraft ... Kinda like the old C118's ...”

Weren’t those the NordAtlas C-119, the twin-boom tail? The design the Germans use is only slightly modified. “Slightly” includes twice the engine power, a nice testosterone saturated improvement.

We jumped frequently and virtually all our jumps were at night. Since rain was a plus, and the USAF won’t fly if the comfort index is poor, we used the German air force quite a bit. Our CO was a friend of the CO of a nearby German air base who gave us blanket permission to use their aircraft and crews. The Germans only required a sergeant to take the plane off and land it, and a private could fly it. When the USAF cancelled, we would roll up to the German Airman Club, find some willing airmen, and off we’d go.

We were generous at Christmas.

German air force crews, hauled out of their club in their most drunken state, were far better than the best US Air National Guard flight. I vividly recall flying sideways between Radio Free Europe radio antennas one night. The antenna lights were flashing just outside the doors; above, alongside, and below us. When we crossed the DZ, guys on one side crawled up and out the door, the guys on the other side just dropped pretty much straight down out the door.

Good old Air National Guard. I still don't know how they missed all the guy wires that night - must have been better flying than I credit them with.

"'Slogger ... refers to an old foot soldier ... a very appropriate way to describe the style of hiking we used ... in the rain."

Sounds good. No one gives out style points.

Footslogger
01-06-2006, 00:12
[quote=Vi+]'Slogger,

“NorAtlas aircraft ... Kinda like the old C118's ...”

Weren’t those the NordAtlas C-119, the twin-boom tail? The design the Germans use is only slightly modified. “Slightly” includes twice the engine power, a nice testosterone saturated improvement.
====================================
Yeah baby ...the Germans were animals when it came to jumping. Remember when we did that exchange of soldier thing and we woke up every morning before jumping to a "beer and brochen" breakfast. I think the German toast was "Gluck Ab" ...which literally translated means "luck on the way down"

Soundsl like we shared some air together over there, even though our tours were at different times.

Good to see an old trooper here at Whiteblaze. Airborne All the Way man.

'Slogger

Vi+
01-06-2006, 19:12
'Slogger,

Your mention of jump school at Wiesbaden reminded me of a neat little thing that happened that I had intended to include previously.

One day some of us were practicing parachute rigging. Others of us had a “Hollywood” day - jumping without equipment - to recycle the parachutes back to the student-riggers for repacking.

A driver and truck from a transportation unit were assigned to keep cycling our parachutes through the riggers.

We had a field, a couple of small aircraft leapfrogging, and use of the pilots for the day. A plane would take us up, we’d jump near the runway, return the parachutes to the truck, get more, and jump again.

The driver watched us, waiting to accumulate enough parachutes to take back. He became very curious and advised he’d always wondered what it would be like to jump.

In twenty minutes we taught him to jump, using the tailgate of his truck. We put him in a parachute. He got on the plane, made his jump, carried his parachute back, thanked us, and resumed his duties.

Here was a guy who had gone to work that morning, expecting a day like any other, and jumped from a plane. He had a great day, thoroughly enjoying the entertainment value of his jump.

Footslogger
01-07-2006, 15:49
[quote=Vi+]'Slogger,

Your mention of jump school at Wiesbaden reminded me of a neat little thing that happened that I had intended to include previously.

One day some of us were practicing parachute rigging. Others of us had a “Hollywood” day - jumping without equipment - to recycle the parachutes back to the student-riggers for repacking.
==========================================

Great story ...and the so-called "Hollywood Days" were still in existence when I was there. We used to bribe a UH1 chopper pilot to fly up from headquarters and land in the grass infield at Wiesbaden Airbase. We'd grab a half 50 gallon drum grill and basically have a "jump picnic". Once a year we'd even invite some of the German paratroopers which whom we did maneuvers during the year and put on a "spot jumping contest". Of course, jumping old T-10's didn't exactly make "spot jumping" very easy. I still have my certificate (written in German) from having scored 3rd overall in the contest back in 1969.

Great memories ...good times.

'Slogger