View Full Version : Synthetic Sleeping Bag Recommendation
I am looking for recommendations and reviews on synthetic sleeping bags in the 20-25 degree range for a 2015 Thru-Hike. Has anyone tried TNF's newest Cat's Meow? What about REI Lumen or EMS Boreal? What about Nemo's Harmony? I am a small female (5' and 95lbs) but I sleep hot so I am most interested in either a short men's bag without the extra insulation/weight on women's bags or a kid's bag (assuming it is the same quality as an adult bag). Any advice would be most welcome.
Feral Bill
12-06-2014, 16:22
Do some research on synthetic fillings. Pick the best filling first. Synthetics often do not maintain loft for long. You might reconsider down, it is not hard to keep dry.
I suggest you take a look at Mountain Hardwear I used the Ultra Lamina 30 degree bag on both my AT NOBO's and I got no complaints what so ever.
I left springer FEB 13th and 14th and basically the only place I got cold was in the GSMNP but I didn't use a bag liner and I kept the bag the entire trip on both NOBO's on my flip-flop I used a 20 degree bag from Mountain Hardwear but it was a little too warm for me and I changed it out when I got to my sisters house in Stroudsburg PA.
on my 2015 PCT thru I plan to use a down bag, good luck to me right
Welcome fellow synthetic bag user theirs not many of us here on WB.
Just Bill
12-06-2014, 16:33
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy/
Unless somebody figures out how to make Primaloft work- Climbashield Apex is the best around.
Tim makes a nice quilt in a short slim for 28 ounces, $200 bucks in 20* and his rating is a bit conservative. If you sleep warm and with clothes you might be able to get away with the 30*- I have used a 2.5 oz apex to 40*- Tim's 30* is 6.0 oz Apex. The short/slim 30* is $165 and 23 oz.
Having a flexible quilt may mean you can even use it for the whole hike and supplement with clothes in the worst sections.
As the more feral William hinted at- don't overcompress synthetic. You can PERMANANTLY loose 25% of the loft the first time you smash it in a stuff sack. Climbashield is fairly durable and should make it through a thru with some care in packing. I pack mine last, loosely pushing it into my pack to fill in gaps.
My SUL Apex 2.5 quilts seem to loose 5* or so after a decent season (100 nights) FWIW, downgraded to summer/car camping/loaners after much more than that.
Tim uses more quilting than I do (I use none) and his stuff is more durable.
LogHiking
12-06-2014, 16:35
My buddy who is far from an expert backpacker needed a new bag to join my hiking buddies and I for a fall trip and picked up the cats meow the day of the trip and got to put it to use right away. First night it was 30 and windy and rainy and the bag got a little splatter on it but he was warm and dry and the 2nd night we set up in a really exposed area and storm rolled in. Mix of rain and snow and the temps dipping into the mid to low 20s throughout the night and despite the bag getting pretty wet this time he still slept well and warm considering. I don't know much about synthetics outside of APEX so I don't know what to expect out of the bag long term, but I was impressed with its performance for him. If you are comfy with the weight it is definitely worth looking into further considering the price and performance I saw.
Studlintsean
12-06-2014, 16:52
I own a cats meow which is now a loaner bag but for the price it is a decent bag. 2 of my brothers used The NF cats meow last weekend in temps in the 20s (possibly right at 20 night 1) and both claimed they were warm. I use a down bag (WM Alpinelite) and agree keeping it dry is not as hard as some make it out to be.
LogHiking
12-06-2014, 17:17
My buddy who is far from an expert backpacker needed a new bag to join my hiking buddies and I for a fall trip and picked up the cats meow the day of the trip and got to put it to use right away. First night it was 30 and windy and rainy and the bag got a little splatter on it but he was warm and dry and the 2nd night we set up in a really exposed area and storm rolled in. Mix of rain and snow and the temps dipping into the mid to low 20s throughout the night and despite the bag getting pretty wet this time he still slept well and warm considering. I don't know much about synthetics outside of APEX so I don't know what to expect out of the bag long term, but I was impressed with its performance for him. If you are comfy with the weight it is definitely worth looking into further considering the price and performance I saw.
I should have added that while I was impressed with the cats meow it still would not be my choice for me personally. I'm a quilt user and for the money and versatility the EE prodigy that Just Bill mentioned would be far superior to the cats meow in my eyes. If for nothing else the insulation used is well proven and I agree the fill amounts listed on the sight look like they would make a very conservative rating.
Thanks all for your comments, please keep the advice coming. I should clarify that I am not concerned about getting down wet - it's an ethical issue for me so whatever the advantages of down are over synthetic, it's simply not an option that I'm willing to consider.
RADHiker
12-06-2014, 23:02
MH UltraLamina is a nice choice. I love mine. I have a down bag, too, and use the synthetic when weather is expected to be soggy.
I have never had a down, anything, get wet.
I have nothing against synthetics.
I have a synthetic sleeping bag for the river kayak. If I camp near water, I want a synthetic sleeping bag.
One time, I had to sleep next to the truck. I had wet clothing, and, no chance to change clothing. I got in the synthetic sleeping bag wet, not all over wet, but wet from rain. In the morning, I got out of the synthetic sleeping bag dry. My companion on the river float trip was stunned. He thought I would be all shivering, and, had no sleep.
During the night, my own warmth transpired thru that synthetic sleeping bag, drying me, my clothing, and the sleeping bag was dry. The atmosphere was reasonably dry. I guess, that is what happened.
it was a zero rated sleeping bag I got "on sale" at the Boy Scout Store, in San Francisco.
MH UltraLamina is a nice choice. I love mine. I have a down bag, too, and use the synthetic when weather is expected to be soggy.
Do you know anything about/have thoughts about MH's Mountain Goat? http://www.mountainhardwear.com/mountain-goat-adjustable---re-%7C-409-%7C-reg-786559903374.html?gclid=CK7bxMKEs8ICFUeEfgodKJwAww&v=true&mid=paidsearch&nid=Product_Ad&oid=72450882030&did=&eid=Google+Adwords+US&s_kwcid=AL!3937!3!40411816291!!!g!72450882030!&ef_id=VH6FRAAABGrYEe1W:20141207035536:s
It appears to have similar specs as the Lamina (not the UltraLamina) but in miniature (with a system for adjusting the length): http://www.mountainhardwear.com/mens-lamina-20-regular-OU8503.html?cgid=equipment-sleepingBags-5to20&dwvar_OU8503_variationColor=409#start=7
Thanks all for your comments, please keep the advice coming. I should clarify that I am not concerned about getting down wet - it's an ethical issue for me so whatever the advantages of down are over synthetic, it's simply not an option that I'm willing to consider.
I think I understand your concerns - ethical treatment of down sources. If that is true I too share your views. Yet, I have some down gear.
Look at Allied Feather with the Bluesign designation. http://alliedfeather.com/ Read through fully. They supply down from humanely ethically treated down sources. Allied Feather supply several companies that make down sleeping bags: The North Face, Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, and I'm sure others that I'm not aware of. Also, if you see Hyperdry down I believe it only comes form Allied Feather. Quite a few in the UL cottage industry use/offer HyperDry down. All my down apparel pieces and sleeping bags/quilts are sourced from Allied Feather considering this as one of my objectives - the ethical treatment of animals.
I think I understand your concerns - ethical treatment of down sources. If that is true I too share your views. Yet, I have some down gear.
Look at Allied Feather with the Bluesign designation. http://alliedfeather.com/ Read through fully. They supply down from humanely ethically treated down sources. Allied Feather supply several companies that make down sleeping bags: The North Face, Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, and I'm sure others that I'm not aware of. Also, if you see Hyperdry down I believe it only comes form Allied Feather. Quite a few in the UL cottage industry use/offer HyperDry down. All my down apparel pieces and sleeping bags/quilts are sourced from Allied Feather considering this as one of my objectives - the ethical treatment of animals.
Dogwood, I respectfully disagree with the concept of ethically sourced down. I'm glad to hear that Allied does not live-pluck or use feathers from animals farmed for foie gras but that doesn't change the fact that these geese were raised in captivity, on factory farms, under conditions that are not at all transparent.
Did you examine the Responsible Down Standard link? The RDS - Consolidated Feedback and Response Link? :confused: It very much seemed to me the goal was transparency, or at least a greater transparency/cooperation/understanding, between Allied Feather Down sourcing/TNF RDS protocols, outdoor brands, retailers, and animal welfare groups like Humane Society International, PETA, 4-Paws International, and Ethical Expert LLD.
If, after you do fully read through the RDS and RDS Consolidated Feedback and Response links, come to your present views, I totally respect that.
I haven't personally verified this but there may be down sources that come from geese and ducks that have molted or is left over after nesting is completed(from down lined nests) and then cleaned. :) I've lived on lakes and rivers where geese and ducks have brooded and then abandon the down lined nests. IMHO, I can't see anything unethical about this down source.
I have thought down and the small feathers were harvested from abandoned nests, for example, in Iceland.
I had heard that is how down is gathered, in Iceland.
Yes or No?
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy/
Unless somebody figures out how to make Primaloft work- Climbashield Apex is the best around.
Just wondering, what is the problem with Primaloft? I've had a vest, a jacket and a sleeping bag with Primaloft for quite a few years now. I've noticed no degradation worth mentioning, but I haven't actually tested it. The jacket or vest (sometimes both) go with me on every trip for the past 5 or 6 years. Primaloft is my favorite synthetic insulator - light, compressible, effective.
That said, I've never used Climashield.
Slo-go'en
12-07-2014, 15:42
I have a Mont-Bell #3 spiral huger synthetic which I liked a lot. I think I ruined it by washing it in a top loader instead of a side loader.
I had a very early Cat's meow with holofill insulation which I used for years and years. Probably had over 600 nights in it. But it was also later stored stuffed in the bag for years and years and when I went to use it again the loft had gone to next to nothing and I froze my butt off.
Slo-go'en
12-07-2014, 15:46
I have thought down and the small feathers were harvested from abandoned nests, for example, in Iceland.
I had heard that is how down is gathered, in Iceland.
Yes or No?
I doubt it, unless you just need enough for personal use. That seems to be a very limited supply which would take a lot of time and effort to collect. China has always been a large supplier of down since they eat a lot of ducks and geese. But that supply is dwindling as more and more Chinese switch to beef.
Well, I was told it was a "cash crop" in Iceland.
The nest are abandoned after the fledglings leave, and, they do have their nests, together, in a favorite location.
I heard about it, when I was in college. We had students from Iceland, at my college, I acknowledge, that was awhile ago.
I will add, the Chinese should market "Peking Duck" in the United States, in grocery stores. Prepared, frozen, in vacume-pak it is still good.
It is absolutely delicious.
I have purchased it, cut up right there, fresh, at a lunch counter at Broadway, near the tunnel, in San Francisco, CA.
The fact is, no one is marketing duck in our grocery stores.
I had to go up to Canada (I live near the US/Canada border) to get Muscovy duck.
I found duck, and pheasant, in a grocery store in Portland, OR. That's it.
I guess, that is not very "sensitive" considering this thread.
Apologies.
Just Bill
12-07-2014, 17:07
I have thought down and the small feathers were harvested from abandoned nests, for example, in Iceland.
I had heard that is how down is gathered, in Iceland.
Yes or No?
Yes and No-
The down you are thinking about is Eider Down- which is a bird. It's in those regions but I don't recall the specific countries. It is very rare. The birds line their nests with their own down, which is then harvested when the babies are leaving the nest.
For Funsize or anyone else- there is no more responsible insulation that you could buy short of harvesting it yourself. The relationship is a symbiotic one that has gone on for centuries. The humans protect the nest and the fledgelings from predators and the birds provide the insulation needed by those living in the climates. It lofts to 600-700 fill but provides equivalent warmth in the 1000 fill range. I believe they are a protected species and collection is subject to many regulations and tribal/primitive people agreements.
That said- I have no idea where you could get one in this country or what it would cost.
Synthetics are a petroleum based product- with it's own set of ethical issues. And of course regardless of fill- your shell is also made with petroleum based fabrics.
If you someone is eating an animal- to me it is unethical to not use as much of that animal as possible.
If you choose not to eat animals- consider that a living breathing plant had to be slaughtered to make your salad, likely a dozen of them.
It's okay and admirable to be aware- but sometimes from a logical standpoint- getting too crunchy gets a little squishy.
Just Bill
12-07-2014, 17:17
Just wondering, what is the problem with Primaloft? I've had a vest, a jacket and a sleeping bag with Primaloft for quite a few years now. I've noticed no degradation worth mentioning, but I haven't actually tested it. The jacket or vest (sometimes both) go with me on every trip for the past 5 or 6 years. Primaloft is my favorite synthetic insulator - light, compressible, effective.
That said, I've never used Climashield.
Not a problem- just some limitations.
Primaloft is short staple fill, Climbashield is continuous. In fact that new puffball stuff is simply Primaloft that is not quilted (fell apart)
Primaloft is great for all the reasons you mention- drapes well, packs small, holds up, feels great.
Primaloft gold (one) requires quilting every 6". Though it is warmer in the lab, all that quilting at some point degrades that rating a bit. Think of a Patagonia nano-puff and you get the idea of quilting needed. Though not too big a deal in a piece of clothing as you need lots of seams anyway.
Apex requires no quilting really (technically 24")- but lots of MYOG folks like me use it unquilted (just sewn at the edges) so you get it's full CLO value.
It's not that you can't use PL in a sleeping bag or quilt- it's that all the quilting makes it pretty apples to apples in warmth with APEX.
So in a big piece like a quilt/sleeping bag there is no point in wasting all the time/money to quilt it.
There are also several "flavors" of PL. Some are more durable but heavier and may be used. There are reasons to use it but basically- weight, cost, and warmth generally favor APEX over the best PL. You may find some PL products out there, but they don't seem to stick around more than a season or two.
That said- I have a few yards of PL in my basement waiting for an experiment or two- WV over at Hammock forums uses it, but he is one of the few. And his uses already involve a lot of quilting so his design favors PL.
PL is also about to release a PL/down combo- but it won't likely see MYOG use anytime soon- probably will pop up in a TNF or Patagonia type piece- likely apparel.
saltysack
12-07-2014, 17:26
I doubt it, unless you just need enough for personal use. That seems to be a very limited supply which would take a lot of time and effort to collect. China has always been a large supplier of down since they eat a lot of ducks and geese. But that supply is dwindling as more and more Chinese switch to beef.
Wrong!!!!!!!!! They switched to dog and cat![emoji1]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HooKooDooKu
12-08-2014, 01:57
MH UltraLamina is a nice choice. I love mine. I have a down bag, too, and use the synthetic when weather is expected to be soggy.
I love my UltraLamina bags... I've got a 32 degree for summer and late/early spring/fall and a 15 degree for cold temps.
They are simply the lightest and most compressible synthetic bags I've found, and can be found from time to time at clearance prices (keep an eye out on clearance sales between Christmas and New Year.
Eider down. Pricey stuff. Can't imagine what a bag would cost. $4,800 for a queen size quilt.
http://www.plumeriabay.com/products/superqueen-eiderdown-comforters-ecsq.aspx
I'd your willing to go for cottage and a quilt. http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/store/p314/Owyhee_Top_Quilt_Regular.html I have one foe their convertible under guilty and was warm on the ground
Just Bill
12-08-2014, 10:28
I love my UltraLamina bags... I've got a 32 degree for summer and late/early spring/fall and a 15 degree for cold temps.
They are simply the lightest and most compressible synthetic bags I've found, and can be found from time to time at clearance prices (keep an eye out on clearance sales between Christmas and New Year.
These are great bags- the MH stuff is basically PL Gold/One in term of warmth. I believe they use a shingle style quilting to reduce or eliminate sewn through seams. And as you mention- on sale they are a hard bargain to beat.
Just Bill
12-08-2014, 10:40
I'd your willing to go for cottage and a quilt. http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/store/p314/Owyhee_Top_Quilt_Regular.html I have one foe their convertible under guilty and was warm on the ground
Well if this isn't Paul-
Arrowhead uses a High Loft version of APEX- good stuff and nothing against it or the Kickass quality.
Just different stuff that I don't have any personal experience with other than to say it can be a hair heavier than regular APEX- but only at gram weenie levels that few will concern themselves with.
Well if this isn't Paul-
Arrowhead uses a High Loft version of APEX- good stuff and nothing against it or the Kickass quality.
Just different stuff that I don't have any personal experience with other than to say it can be a hair heavier than regular APEX- but only at gram weenie levels that few will concern themselves with.
Not the paul from arrowhead but I am in fact am a Paul
Just Bill
12-08-2014, 10:50
29109
Here's what they all look like-
On paper- Primaloft is warmer, though not as thick as Apex.
Apex 2.5 /0.82 /2.50/ 2.05
Pl gold 3oz/ 0.92/ 3.00/ 2.76
Pl gold 4oz /0.92 /4.00 /3.68
Chart is- Clo/oz/ ounces per yard/ CLO per Yard.
If you want to nerd out a bit- this is mainly a MYOG thread- but an excellent debate from HF-
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/86774-UQ-Overstuffing
bangorme
12-08-2014, 15:47
29109
Here's what they all look like-
On paper- Primaloft is warmer, though not as thick as Apex.
Apex 2.5 /0.82 /2.50/ 2.05
Pl gold 3oz/ 0.92/ 3.00/ 2.76
Pl gold 4oz /0.92 /4.00 /3.68
Chart is- Clo/oz/ ounces per yard/ CLO per Yard.
If you want to nerd out a bit- this is mainly a MYOG thread- but an excellent debate from HF-
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/86774-UQ-Overstuffing
Pretty much as I expected. I've got an LL Beans Katahdin 20 degree bag (insulated with Primaloft) that I've used on and off over the years and it's great. I've tested it down to 20 degrees and it works as rated. To be honest, as long as you are considering a highly rated synthetic filling, I don't think it matters much. If you are REALLY worried about weight, I'd be thinking down anyway.
freightliner
12-08-2014, 16:27
It has to say gray goose feathers to be the feathers of abandon nests. It is very good money for those who collect it. The bad down is all white and is often collected while the bird is still alive. Funsize I respect you for making a stand if only everybody did this world would be a better place to live. I got to throw this out to its like paper or plastic there is no right answer. Maybe you should be like gramma gatewood and us a wool blanket undyed of coarse.
If you are still looking for a synthetic sleeping bag, Steep and Cheap has the Thermarest Saros 20 degree bag for $106 right now. Looks like they have it in both regular and long for the same price. I haven't tried it, but I do have the down version (Antares) and really like it. The pad straps help keep me on the pad, because I am a bit of a restless sleeper.
Just go to Steep and Cheap and it is listed under "Give the gift of gear." Seems like a solid deal as these bags are marked down nearly 50% from a couple months ago.
I used an old school cats meow for years. 20 degrees. Believe it was a NorthFace.
jimmyjam
12-14-2014, 11:48
Mountain Laurel Designs makes a decent synthetic quilt: http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=133
HooKooDooKu
12-14-2014, 20:40
I used an old school cats meow for years. 20 degrees. Believe it was a NorthFace.
Yes, the Cat's Meow is a North Face bag...
My impression is that it is a good quality middle of the road bag in the realm of synthetic bags. It's neither cheap nor overly expensive. I've frequently seen sales at places like Campmor.com with Cat's Meow priced around $130-150.
As a comparison, the Cat's Meow is about 2oz ligher than the Mountain Hardware Ultralamina 15 degree bag. But the reason the Cat's Meow is about $150 while the Ultralamina is about $270 is the stuff size:
Cat's Meow: 9"x17"= 1080cuin
Ultralamina: 7"x13" = 500cuin (half the size)
BTW, Campmor.com has the Ultralamina 15 on sale right now for $220 - only $60 more that the current going price for the Cat's Meow.