View Full Version : BMT vs. AT Start?
mattjv89
12-09-2014, 23:17
Well this new thread about overuse of the southern AT got the idea of the Benton Mackaye Trail in my mind, didn't realize before that it connected to the AT I just thought it was some other trail down in that part of the country. Anyways I'm now considering that as a start to my thru, picking up the BMT at Springer and rejoining the AT before or after the Smokies. The main reason for me is avoiding the big crowds, I'm committed to a late March/early April start but really not jazzed about the idea of 50+ people at campsites for the first little bit. Not so interested in SOBO or flip flop options for other reasons. Now I've found enough information about the BMT but not a lot comparing it specifically to the AT aside from generally less people and maybe less snow in the Smokies. So that brings me to this thread seeking a little more info from those who can speak to the differences between the two. I appreciate anything people have to say about this, but also have a few specific questions:
-Amount of people? I gather the BMT is a lot less but I can't quite pin down how much less. While I don't like the idea of overcrowded campsites on the AT I'd also rather not be alone for 200 something miles.
-Smokies: If I'm correctly understanding the permit system it seems that entering the Smokies on a thru-hiker permit and rejoining the AT at the beginning is logistically a lot easier. Mainly because I'll have a hard time accurately reserving exact dates for backcountry sites along the BMT so far in advance on a general use permit. Or am I missing something?
-Water: I gather that there are many water crossings along the BMT and they are usually, but not always safe to ford. On a typical year what would I expect to find in March/April?
Thanks for any info you can provide.
I only section hike on the weekends on BMT......
but can help ya with some questions.....
i don't think you'd have any problem finding water that time of year....
might have to go an extra mile but things will be flowing....
in my weekend hikes--I've ran across one BMT thru hiker and that was Dogwood...
he can answer a lot of these questions better.....
and i rarely see anyone else....
maybe a handful of people throughout the summer but nothing like I would see on the at...
youll pass through some nice wilderness areas that have some prime hiking and some prime camping spots....
Oh wait---you were asking about water crossings----you have Slickrock creek to cross---noland creek to cross---and a few others but unless there's heavy rain--those are fairly easy to do....not rock hopping but at least shin deep...
i would really picking up sgt rocks guide book---that has everything ya need....
as for the permits in smokies--yeah---you could do it that way...or just call a few days ahead of when you're nearby and see how the its looking...
i wouldnt think you'd have a problem but again hopefully dogwood will chime in and see how he did it (although he did a southbound)......
Oh, and fwiw---I live in knoxville about an hour away and if I can squeeze it into my hiking and work schedule---i can offer ya a ride...
like i says---im nearby and on various trails most weekends so if i can get a trip in a well---I can run into town or something....
The overcrowding situation gradually diminishes as the wave heads north and thins out. It's still an issue at least through the Smokies, and probably through Damascus as well. I agree that the Trail Days tradition contributes to the problem.
I was behind the the AT thru hiker bubble when I got on the BMT the last day or two of April this year, but still saw a number of people on the approach trail. As soon as I hit the BMT, everyone disappeared. In a week, the only hikers I saw were on Saturday afternoon. Every other day, the only people around were at the occasional road crossing.
the BMT would be a great option. I have done the northern 2/3rds of it on 2 different occasions. I saw 2 other backpackers in the Smokies, none from the Smokies south to Ducktown. I would imagine you would see fewer than 5 other hikers (if that) leaving on your projected start date. You can do without maps on the AT but I would not suggest it at all on the BMT - trail is not as well blazed and defined. If I were to do another thru, i would utilize the BMT for the southern portion. I definitely enjoy the BMT thru GSMNP over the AT. BTW, i did have to get a permit on the BMT and "reserve" my sites - however, I underestimated my mileage and did not camp as per my "flight plan". Not an issue as I had no one else camping out except for one site (that was near a road and a creek outside Bryson City). That spot was almost full with people who were trout fishing.Every other spot, I camped by myself.
If you do not like solitude, I suggest you stay on the AT. The herd will thin out soon enough and there are plenty of other spots (away from the shelters) to camp. I did a section from Erwin to HS last year and I couldn't believe the number of "thru hikers" camping near the shelters. And this was late in the season (late May) when the bubble was probably in central Va. or farther north. also, as a first timer on the AT, I did get a kick out of seeing the little towns like Hiawassee, Franklin, etc. that I had read and heard about for so long.
Good luck on your hike.
royalusa
12-10-2014, 09:04
We did the BMT, as a BMT-AT loop, so within the same time window, we have a comparison of the two trails.
The (long winded) comparison of the two trails can be found here: http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=317704
Our resupply strategy can be found here: http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=10946
royalusa
12-10-2014, 09:11
Reader's digest version of the trail comparison found here (http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=317704) pertaining to your questions on hiker traffic:
Total number of backpackers seen on BMT: 6 pre-GSMNP (192 miles) + 9 in GSMNP (96 miles) for a grand total of 15!
Total number of backpackers seen on AT: 200+
Comparing mileage:
BMT takes 196.8 miles to Sassafras Gap (the first intersection with AT), between 25 and 30 miles longer than it takes the AT to get there.
BMT takes 50 more miles to get to Davenport Gap (288 vs. 238), where it ends, than the AT does.
I haven't hiked the BMT so I can't compare ruggedness or quality of treadway with the AT.
royalusa
12-10-2014, 09:41
I haven't hiked the BMT so I can't compare ruggedness or quality of treadway with the AT.
Nice comparison on the mile differences, Map Man. Here's what we logged in our TJ for the ruggedness/trail quality:
Inclines/Declines: The AT had the most killer inclines/declines. The BMT had nothing like Stecoah Gap, the NOC or the long climb into the Smokies. However, the BMT may have had some of the steepest inclines as switchbacks were few and far between – though the steep inclines were brief in duration.
Maintenance of trails: The AT trail was more open and clear. On the BMT at times we were bushwhacking in vegetation chest high. The BMT also had a lot of natural duff on the trail making it a bit harder in places.
Starchild
12-10-2014, 09:54
You will have a harder time logistically on 2 levels. AFAIK there is no guide book that is designed for thru hiking. So not only will you need maps, but also research resupply options. And second when you need to resupply you will not be on the AT, so rides and trail angel help may be harder to come by. You may even come across a trail angel or two who will figure you are really a lost thru hiker and desire to take you back to the AT. In many ways it may be more of a adventure, stepping outside the protected corridor.
Yes you will need to reserve shelters/night in the Smokies, and that usually is a problem as you don't and can not know how far you will go, or even when you will enter. Technically you can make one reservation change call (where you can change the entire reservation if needed). But really it is hiking on a schedule which gives many people issues. Generally if you can not make a shelter (or overshoot), you are called 'off schedule', and if caught they may be able to radio it in to change it. You may get a stern talking to, you could be fined however that usually does not happen as long as you have a reservation somewhere. The AT Thru permit is actually much easier and friendlier, but you need to stay on the AT and the shelters and campsite along it.
royalusa
12-10-2014, 10:09
You will have a harder time logistically on 2 levels. AFAIK there is no guide book that is designed for thru hiking. So not only will you need maps, but also research resupply options. And second when you need to resupply you will not be on the AT, so rides and trail angel help may be harder to come by. You may even come across a trail angel or two who will figure you are really a lost thru hiker and desire to take you back to the AT. In many ways it may be more of a adventure, stepping outside the protected corridor.
Actually Sgt Rock has an excellent BMT thru-hiker guide book that rivals the quality and thoroughness of any AT guide book.
Here's what we used for navigation:
-----------------------------------------------
1. Sgt Rock's Guidebook (http://bmtguide.com/)
2. National Geographic #781 Cherokee National Forest Map
3. Great Smoky Mountains $1 Trail Map
4. Compass
This limited selection of navigational aids worked fine for us. Others prefer more maps, but I guess we just aren't map people to that degree. For example, we did not use the maps on the AT where others swear by them. HYOH.
Again, we did the BMT-AT loop hike, so our resupply strategy was a bit different, but very straight forward:
For those interested in our resupply strategy, here's the game plan:
1. AT Mile 30.7 Drop at Neels Gap
2. BMT Mile 48.5 Purchase at Cherry Log grocery. (See 6/1 entry for more info.)
3. BMT Mile 109.7 Drop at Webb Brothers Store & Float Service in Reliance TN
4. BMT Mile 197 Bear Vault Stash in GSMNP
5. AT Mile 238.3 Purchase at Standing Bear Hostel
6. AT Mile 134.9 Drop at the NOC
http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=317016
Slo-go'en
12-10-2014, 11:11
Doing the BMT would be more of an adventure and lonely. Since it is not nearly as heavily trafficked, you'll need good navigational skills to keep track of it in places. Probably not the best way to start a thru unless one already has a fair amount of experience.
Has the dangerous "Dragon's tail" road walk been re-routed? Once at the GSMNP, instead of taking the BMT route through the park, one could get on the AT, as the trails cross just a few miles up from Fontana Dam.
At AT/BMT loop sounds pretty interesting and similar in length to the Tuscarora/AT loop. I've considered doing the latter at some point. I've already done almost all of the AT side of the AT/Tuscarora loop. Both should be around a month of hiking.
Someone seeking solitude on the AT might do the BMT start and then divert to the Tuscarora in the middle of the hike. I believe that the Tuscarora was originally developed with the idea that it might become the AT corridor eventually if the more eastern route became overrun with development. Since that didn't happen both could be viewed as alternate paths.
The Colorado Trail has the Collegiate east and west. Could the AT have similar "east and west" routes in Virginia/WV/MD/Southern PA with the traditional AT being the "east" and the Tuscarora being the "west"? That official designation could reduce congestion. Just a thought.
full conditions
12-10-2014, 11:25
I think the BMT is an excellent option especially compared to the mob scene you'll encounter on the AT. But - the BMT isnt your only alternate option. There is also the option of starting on the Bartram Trail in South Carolina and following it to Wayah Bald on the AT in North Carolina. The BT has some beautiful mileage along the Chattooga River and the stretch thru the Fishhawk range is amazing. Another option would be to do the mountain portion of the Mountains to Sea Trail say from Blowing Rock to Clingman's Dome - extraordinary experiances on Grandfather Mountain, Linville Gorge, Mount Mitchell, Asheville, Shining Rock Wlderness, etc... . I think so many prospective thru hikers get way too caught up in becoming a slave to the white blazes that they forget that its your trip and you can make it whatever you want. Bob Proudman of the AMC once wrote an interesting piece about how the AT thru the White Mountains has some unappealing stretches compared with alternate routes that you could take. I wish I had taken that advice to heart on my thru hike.
Tipi Walter
12-10-2014, 11:29
Has the dangerous "Dragon's tail" road walk been re-routed? Once at the GSMNP, instead of taking the BMT route through the park, one could get on the AT, as the trails cross just a few miles up from Fontana Dam.
I backpacked the new BMT reroute between Hiway 129 and Fontana and my journey can be found below---
The new reroute avoids Deals Gap and most of the road walk on hiways 129 and 28, although there's a short section on hiway 129 between Calderwood Lake and Tapoco Lodge to Meadow Branch road. The reroute follows the old 1940's AT along Yellow Creek Mountain trail and for most of the year it's a hike in futility as the entire ridgeline is bombarded by Harley motorcycle noise on the hiways below the ridge. It's hateful so I recommend doing it in the winter to avoid the noise pollution.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-Yellow-Mt/i-Jf5JQLL
(http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-Yellow-Mt/i-Jf5JQLL)
Tipi Walter
12-10-2014, 11:35
Plus, when you take the new Yellow Creek Mt reroute and get to Green Gap by Lookout Rock you can option out to go straight on the ridge and in around 2 miles hit the AT in Walker Gap above and south of Fontana. It's not part of the new BMT reroute but instead is a continuation of the old Yellow Creek Mt trail as it connects Green Gap to the AT in Walker Gap. Highly recommended if you want to avoid Fontana and go south on the AT to Cheoah Mt etc.
mattjv89
12-10-2014, 14:39
What a great response, lots of information here about both the bmt and other options. I think the most concerning thing I'm hearing so far is how drastic the change in crowds will be, seems like I would be skipping from one extreme to the other between the AT and BMT. When I did my shakedown on the southern LT the trail was getting pretty quiet and there were a few sections where after 6 or so hours alone I started thinking "sure would be nice to see someone, if only for a passing moment". Sounds like that would be the norm and not the exception on the bmt. I don't think I would lose it out there but I may be pretty damn lonely by the end. Then again maybe I would get used to it and the prospect of knowing I'd be rejoining the AT crowd later on could carry me through some of it. Hmmm...
I'd like to clarify the question of difficult navigation too. I am familiar enough with a map and compass to know if I'm going the complete wrong direction but would not appraise myself as capable of precise navigation. There is still some time to learn but I am not field tested in this regard. Can anyone shed some more light on how there navigation looks ranging roughly from " a map is a good idea to carry" to " you will absolutely be lost without a full orienteering skill set"?
Also how about resupply options? The bmt site lists some nearby towns but not a lot of info on how resupply actually goes. I've never done a mail drop and the idea doesn't thrill me, how does one fare with resupplying in towns and travel to/ from them?
Thanks so much for all the info so far keep it coming.
how does one fare with resupplying in towns and travel to/ from them?
either hike----or hitch a ride into town............
and from my limited experience on the BMT---i would say that one wouldnt need a "full orienteering skill set" for navigation but rather just be able to read maps really well..........
Traffic Jam
12-10-2014, 16:40
I'm directionally challenged and I've done okay section-hiking the BMT. There have been a few snafus but it hasn't been too difficult. If I can do it, most anyone can do it.
royalusa
12-10-2014, 16:45
Can anyone shed some more light on how there navigation looks ranging roughly from " a map is a good idea to carry" to " you will absolutely be lost without a full orienteering skill set"?
No, it is not the case of " you will absolutely be lost without a full orienteering skill set"...not even close. It's more of "carry Sgt Rock's data book and a map in case you need it"
Here's what you need to do:
1. Carry the items listed below.
2. Follow along Sgt Rock's guide book as you go. His book will tell you where to turn if need be.
3. If for some reason at a trail intersection, you are confused, and his book is not helping you, pull out the map and compass and make a decision. That may happen perhaps 6-12 times before the Smokies, if my memory is correct.
I can't stress how good Sgt Rock's guide book is. It'll tell you the twists and turns, etc. And some of the trail is blue-blazed, just not all of it, as some is in the wilderness, where blazes are not permitted.
Here's what we used for navigation:
-----------------------------------------------
1. Sgt Rock's Guidebook (http://bmtguide.com/)
2. National Geographic #781 Cherokee National Forest Map
3. Great Smoky Mountains $1 Trail Map
4. Compass
I believe GPS waypoints are available too.
Thanks for the kind words TNhiker. Yes I too did the 500 mile or so AT/BMT Loop plus another 130 or so miles in GSMNP tagged on. But I knew Sgt Rock or someone else would have better/more detailed to the pt info than me beyond just what has already be opined in mass if I restrained my over eagerness to start typing. :) That was very nice BMT coverage Royalusa. Sgt Rock has put together the relevant BMT info you need in a very condensed way at a affordable price. He knows the BMT extremely well. BMT logistics aren't much different than the AT.
In regards to BMT mileage even though it is slightly greater trail mileage NOBO to reach the equivalent spot on a sole AT NOBO IMO it should be taken in the context that the BMT is generally an easier grade with not so much of the long significant elevation changes as the AT on comparable AT sections. Since the BMT crosses and connects to the AT in several spots you can choose to jump back and forth between the AT and BMT too based on your own agenda. Mix it up between the two trails if so inclined. That's what I did on my BMT/AT Loop.
IMO, with the new reroute as described here by Tipi and Sgt Rock in another thread it makes even more sense to give greater consideration to the BMT as an alternate to the AT when doing basically a AT NOBO thru-hike.
What I was getting at in the above comments is that it may not be all that much difference time wise it takes to go the longer trail mileage on the BMT compared to getting to the same junction if taking just the AT.
FWIW, there are umpteen routes through GSMNP to get to Davenport Gap(on the AT north side of GSMNP) other than solely using the most heavily used AT that avoids that madhouse when the AT thru-hiker bubble is passing through. Again, mixing up trails by coming up with a route through GSMNP that suits your agenda is something to consider. Personally, knowing what I know now, if I had never experienced the AT through GSMNP I wouldn't want to miss all of it on an AT thru-hike. It's a popular trail in GSMNP for dam good reason. It's pretty cool even with the crowds during the bubble.
mattjv89
12-10-2014, 18:45
Great navigation info from the last few posts, sounds like I would be pretty comfortable finding my way. Dogwood, that is an interesting comment about wanting to do the Smokies despite the crowds. Would you have the same opinion about missing the AT pre-Smokies by taking the BMT?
handlebar
12-11-2014, 01:27
Wow! Lots of good info here. I'm getting stoked to hike the BMT in the fall of next year.
Great navigation info from the last few posts, sounds like I would be pretty comfortable finding my way. Dogwood, that is an interesting comment about wanting to do the Smokies despite the crowds. Would you have the same opinion about missing the AT pre-Smokies by taking the BMT?
Complete my thought - if I had never experienced the AT through GSMNP I wouldn't want to miss all of it on an AT thru-hike.
It sounds like you're like me in that we want sociability when we want it. We can range in personality from introvert to extrovert. If so, tweak your hike to suit your current comfortable acceptable degree of sociability. Jump back and forth. However, you're not going to totally avoid the social aspect, as after all, you're hiking the AT a trail known for it's high degree of sociability. This is compounded by your anticipated starting time window and hiking itinerary. More on this.
Even if I could tell you how to design your hike I wouldn't. Part of successfully thru-hiking is accepting your role in decision making, managing yourself, and your hike. I'll put options to you though that might be considered to assist you to decide what's right for your hike.
Despite all the yakkety yak, including some of my own, on the other thread, and in context of what you've shared and your anticipated plans, you do NOT have to be camping with 50+ people every night. That's a misconception. It seems that's one of your primary concerns. This is not a static situation! You are not static! Evolve during your hike. Let your hike evolve. Observe, consider, adjust, move forward. Here are some options to consider to avoid that situation in context of what you've already shared.
1) Review the BMT and AT where they parallel. Examine the character of each different trail section between junctions. Pick the sections that appeal the most to you based on your priorities. You do not have to do all the BMT. Sections of it can be hiked rather conveniently so as the BMT and AT cross several times. When you desire greater solitude and a different trail character and culture consider section excursions onto the BMT. Switch back to the AT if you're not feeling the vibe on the BMT. Look at some maps. You'll see the routes clearly marked on the appropriate Nat Geo Trails Illustrated fold out topographical maps. Three of these maps cover the BMT seamlessly. These maps are generally widely available in the southeast near the AT/BMT. Here's a side by side overview of the two trails to get a better idea without having to commit to anything yet. http://www.bmta.org/pdfs/BMT-OverviewMap.pdf
2)Get a feeling as to where the AT masses tend to congregate to camp. In short, it's largely at AT lean-tos/shelters. Avoid staying at/in shelters when you're not feeling the need to socialize with people as much. Sometimes, you can gain a greater sense of solitude if you camp near but not directly at the shelters.
3)Consider hammocking and cowboy camping alternatives. The AT is GREAT for hanging. By sleeping this way, at times, you have an infinite more choices where to sleep compared to tenters. ATers tend to shelter in tents and at lean tos. They congregate where they can tent. When wandering off to these untrampled more secluded sites know, AND PRACTICE, strong LNT Principles.
4) While on trail actually hiking adopt a hiking itinerary that will encounter fewer people. Consider starting early. I would start at 4-5 a.m. Great time to be hiking! About 11 or 12, after you get some good miles under your belt, and the trail sees more usage, find a convenient quieter place to chill. I like wandering off trail to water sources or overlooks but don't discount the greater solitude you can gain in nearby parks, dams, restaurants, historical sites, under a large tree, in a thick grove of Rhododendrons, etc. Hike at night. be mindful of others that don't share your itinerary.
Lastly, consider embracing some of the sociability as a positive, not a negative aspect, of your hike. In doing so, you'll create bonds being with people that share many of the same objectives, forge relationships(some of my closest dearest friends are people I met that are associated with the AT), learn from others, share with others(they'll be some that will want to know what the BMT was like), and generally provide a better sense of joyous well being if you embrace the AT culture, of course in doses personally agreeable. Consider sharing what you're strong in knowledge. That's how my trail name was given. I shared my knowledge about plants. Consider sharing the history of the AT that you've researched pre hike. IMHO, knowing things like this and sharing them deepen the AT Hiking Experience. http://www.appalachiantrail.org/about-the-trail/history
Don't fret so much. You'll do better. Backpacking is as much a journey of the soul as it is a journey of miles. :)
That right there---post #27---easily the best piece of wisdom I've read on this board...
kinda heavy at points but that's what its all about.....
That right there---post #27---easily the best piece of wisdom I've read on this board...
kinda heavy at points but that's what its all about.....
many others believe that the hokey pokey is really what it's all about.:sun:sun
Isn't it all about the Benjamins?