PDA

View Full Version : Any hostels or property for sale near Flagg Mountain?



BaxterBear
12-14-2014, 15:24
Hello. I am looking to open 2-3 hostels along the Pinhoti trail in Alabama, and am wondering if anyone knows of current hostels and property that are available along the trail. I am looking to place one near Flagg Mountain and the southern terminus, and two more around 60 miles apart after Flagg.

I am also looking for any hikers in Alabama that would be interested in seasonal employment at a hostel. Thank you for the time.

Mountain Dog
12-14-2014, 17:48
go to trulia.com, zillow.com, or realtor.com These sites list available property around the country. You can search by locations and find anything available and a lot of info about the property. Good hunting

golfjhm
12-14-2014, 18:09
Not to dash your dreams but I'm not sure how much demand there would be for hostels on the AL Pinhoti. Hostels tend to cater to thruhikers of which I would say the AL Pinhoti probably only has low to mid single digits annually. It is a great trail but is nothing like AT in terms of traffic - part of what makes it great. Also, Flagg mountain area of the trail is road walk that 99.9 pct of people skip though there is some headway being made regarding getting it in the woods. There aren't currently any hostels that I'm aware of but a few friendly folks that run shuttles and/or might let you camp in the yard. If it is more hobby than profit center there are likely a few farmhouses you could pick up for cheap but I wouldn't count on it being a thriving business

BaxterBear
12-15-2014, 04:06
I am... anticipating a dramatic uptick in the number of hikers on the currently called Pinhoti Trail in the next 5-7 years. I am an investor and am willing to take the risk because the potential rewards would be far worth it.

kolokolo
12-15-2014, 07:47
I am... anticipating a dramatic uptick in the number of hikers on the currently called Pinhoti Trail in the next 5-7 years. I am an investor and am willing to take the risk because the potential rewards would be far worth it.
I see. So in another post you are advocating extending the AT to include the Pinhoti Trail, and in this post you are looking to position yourself to make money off of that extension.

Havana
12-15-2014, 08:23
Capitalism is on fine display here.

golfjhm
12-15-2014, 08:48
I am... anticipating a dramatic uptick in the number of hikers on the currently called Pinhoti Trail in the next 5-7 years. I am an investor and am willing to take the risk because the potential rewards would be far worth it.

The chances of ATC adding several hundred miles to the AT are slim/none. It would create chaos - would a thru hike be valid if you started at springer like thousands before you, adding a week or two to an already long journey, etc. Also, there is currently so much road walk on the GA Pinhoti that it would take decades to get it all in the woods. ATC isn't interested in adding a road walk nor dealing with hundreds of land owners just to extend the trail. Technically it is connected to springer though not via name so if people wanted more they would already be starting in AL which is only the case for a few people.

Ive seen the unsustainable thread but adding the Pinhoti isn't going to be the answer there.

Jeff
12-15-2014, 10:58
Unless you are serving another clientele in addition to hikers, hostel operators are making little or no profit.

BaxterBear
12-15-2014, 13:07
My job is investing, these future hostels/shuttle service would not be a source of income. I am close to retirement from my active work years and have always intended to open hostels when I retired. I have been blessed by god to have had a very lucrative career and in retirement will be living off my investments that bring in seven figures yearly. At best, I am OK if they just break even. These will be like hobby farms for people who are into farming. They do not do it to make profit, but for the love of it.

When the AT is eventually rerouted to near Flagg Mountain, which I am betting will happen sooner due to the issues the AT is experiencing and the ATC and Baxter State Park are expressing, I would like to have a series of hostels open along the Pinhoti trail in both Alabama and Georgia for future hikers to use. I have been pushing for years behind the scenes to extend the trail to Alabama and the true beginning of the Appalachian Mountain chain. Now that I am coming close to retirement, I plan to take a full time active role in getting work done. The fact these issues are coming up with Baxter State Park and the ATC addressing the issues in Georgia, and talk of massive change coming to the trail is icing on the cake for me. These are exciting times, and I am far more like Myron Avery was than Benton MacKaye. I am a do-er not a dreamer.

For years I have been fascinated by the original map Benton Mackaye developed - I have it hanging up in my study:

29180

ALLEGHENY
12-15-2014, 13:30
Buy the land needed to do the reroute and help out the ATC.

Bronk
12-15-2014, 13:31
Seems to me that the availability of hiker services is what has encouraged many of the problem children we are speaking about to hike the trail. Not sure that setting up franchises on the Pinhoti will solve that...just move it to a different location.

blisterbob
12-15-2014, 14:10
This is the most likely place I know of that could fit what you are interested in.
It even had a campground at one time.
The last time I was by there the house was empty.
The whole place could use some serious cleaning up.
The Pinhoti crosses RR tracks and the Talladega Creek here at mile 55.7.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/600-Skyline-Dr-Talladega-AL-35160/76055061_zpid

BaxterBear
12-15-2014, 14:13
The hostels will be basic, but run clean with a strict no drinking/drugs policy. Basic shuttle services will be provided.

I have had locations scouted out for a couple of years - property, buildings, etc. I have one full time helper working on local laws and regulations regarding hostels and shuttles. Everything will be up to code and by the book.

When I retire next year things will start moving quickly.

What I am trying to get from this thread is intimate local knowledge from local people who hike the Pinhoti, things that real estate sites do not tell because they do not know. I want the area to benefit because I will need to hire staff to run the hostels, so it helps the local economy as well.

As for other things suggested in this thread by ALLEGHENY, who says things have not been taking place? I like to present such things when the plan is complete. But look for big things to happen in the future.

I thought I would get insults for wanting to open hobby hostels, so thank you all for not being hostile to the idea.

BaxterBear
12-15-2014, 14:18
Blisterbob, thank you! That is exactly the kind of local information I desire. I remember how helpful you were to the kids who called themselves "ATConquered" ( Mark and Madalyn ) who did the Pinhoti and the AT this year.
I trust you and thank you again for this information. Please remember me if you hear of any other locations you feel would make a good hostel. Local knowledge is invaluable.

ednotmilkman
12-15-2014, 17:10
we look forward to hearing about your project, BaxterBear. It would be helpful to have a hostel, with shuttle service, parking and maybe bicycle rentals and pickup, near where the 1st GA roadwalk starts; from Jackson Chapel, and Esom Hill Rds, up GA100 and across Cave Spring and the Coosa River. Since most thru-hikes of the AL Pinhoti need help there either with shuttle or to avoid a road walk on into GA.

I seem to remember reading that the trail has been put in the forest along Hematite Branch all the way to GA100 within the last year or so?? If someone can confirm this?

marti038
12-15-2014, 17:11
in retirement will be living off my investments that bring in seven figures yearly.

The Pinhoti would probably benefit more from a generous donation to buy land than hostels, especially in Georgia, but it is your money/retirement.


the issues the AT is experiencing and the ATC and Baxter State Park are expressing,

What are these issues you speak of and how on earth would they impact the Pinhoti?

Good luck with your plans. I'd suggest hiking the Pinhoti before getting too far along.

The Solemates
12-15-2014, 17:12
My job is investing, these future hostels/shuttle service would not be a source of income. I am close to retirement from my active work years and have always intended to open hostels when I retired. I have been blessed by god to have had a very lucrative career and in retirement will be living off my investments that bring in seven figures yearly. At best, I am OK if they just break even. These will be like hobby farms for people who are into farming. They do not do it to make profit, but for the love of it.

When the AT is eventually rerouted to near Flagg Mountain, which I am betting will happen sooner due to the issues the AT is experiencing and the ATC and Baxter State Park are expressing, I would like to have a series of hostels open along the Pinhoti trail in both Alabama and Georgia for future hikers to use. I have been pushing for years behind the scenes to extend the trail to Alabama and the true beginning of the Appalachian Mountain chain. Now that I am coming close to retirement, I plan to take a full time active role in getting work done. The fact these issues are coming up with Baxter State Park and the ATC addressing the issues in Georgia, and talk of massive change coming to the trail is icing on the cake for me. These are exciting times, and I am far more like Myron Avery was than Benton MacKaye. I am a do-er not a dreamer.

For years I have been fascinated by the original map Benton Mackaye developed - I have it hanging up in my study:

29180

well good luck to ya! i feel you are a touch delusional, but if you aint worried about ROI, your plan seems fun!

Coffee
12-15-2014, 17:22
I also have a background in business and investing and I don't see how the economics of most hostels would work unless in a high volume environment (lots of thru hikers, long season) or in a location that also attracts many other types of people (motorcyclists, cyclists, skiers, etc) or if there are ancillary sources of revenue (shuttling, resupplies, etc). If you do the math on a typical 8-12 bed hostel operating in a seasonal business it is pretty clear that it is a very tough business. At the same time, I'm grateful for the fact that hostels exist and I have so far enjoyed staying at every hostel I have visited (some more than others, but all are memorable).

Matt65
12-15-2014, 18:58
This is the most likely place I know of that could fit what you are interested in.
It even had a campground at one time.
The last time I was by there the house was empty.
The whole place could use some serious cleaning up.
The Pinhoti crosses RR tracks and the Talladega Creek here at mile 55.7.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/600-Skyline-Dr-Talladega-AL-35160/76055061_zpid
Here's a little more information. There are not many places that come to mind.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/101547-The-crazy-folks-are-selling-again!

Matt65
12-15-2014, 19:20
This is interesting and I will watch to see where this goes. I certainly do wish you luck on this.

For me, I would probably never use a hostel. Of course I almost never stay anywhere near a shelter either. I don't know that the traffic volume on the trail is great enough to support it (right now). I have section hiked almost all of the AL Pinhoti. Some sections and side trails many times. More often than not I NEVER see another hiker that isn't with me -To be honest, I like this. Is this a build it and they will come sutuation? For AL section- I'm not so sure. GA- deffinatrly not until the roadwalks are eliminated. Without that, it's too segmented from the AT for most.

Keep us posted!

blisterbob
12-15-2014, 19:20
Baxterbear,
Typically you have more negative replies than positive so I will counter with this thought
from the 1989 movie 'Field of Dreams'

If you build it, they will come.

Good Luck and best wishes,
bb

Elder
12-15-2014, 20:12
Mt Oglethorpe, and Springer, are at the Southern end of the Appalachian Mountain chain.

Benton Mackaye's map proposal shows the alternate Georgia start at Stone Mountain. Stone Mountain Georgia is an isolated granite monolith, not a part of the Appalachian Mountains.
The Alabama section is on the sandstone plateaus, The Cumberland Plateau, including Lookout Mountain, etc. Also not part of the geographic Appalachians.
The Pinhoti has it's own attractions. Be your own Bryson and write a book?

golfjhm
12-15-2014, 22:38
The Pinhoti would probably benefit more from a generous donation to buy land than hostels, especially in Georgia, but it is your money/retirement.



What are these issues you speak of and how on earth would they impact the Pinhoti?

Good luck with your plans. I'd suggest hiking the Pinhoti before getting too far along.

i second that. A due diligence trip or trips is probably advised. Not cheering against your project at all but I'm definitely not for shifting the over impacted area from springer to somewhere on the AL Pinhoti.

gubbool
12-16-2014, 00:09
I am not at a location from which I can access my notes but this is one of those rare occassions where I can add to a thread.

I have thru-ed the APT in '08, AL-ME; '09, '10 and just now completed the APT & GPT.

There is a hostel-start-up located about ten miles from Flagg Mt. It is marked on my map, lifeat2mph.com/pinhoti.

I cant provide the exact location (today) but there is an old house for sale right on the trail (below Helfin an unknown distance) that was once owned by the math-wizzard (dont know why he is no longer there).

There is a bit of a campground at APT mile 152 which is also mile post 7 of the Chief Ladigo Bike trail between Piedmont (mile post 12) and the Al/Ga border (the Silver Comet Bike trail starts at the border and goes to Smyrna Ga). That campgroung may also be either kayak-able or innertube-able too. I do not know if that campground is a hobby or an actual concern - no one around when I stopped by.

There are 7 shelters above Helfin, not much of an oppertunity there, but there is an opertunity where the APT crosses Hwy 78 because its 3+ miles into Heflin and there's private land at unknown 'village' a few miles south of I20. My map needs a fix in that area - no PO and the convience store is open.

To the nay-sayers; the APT and the first 30 miles of the GPT are also a part of the GET - a developing trail with its roots in the recognition that the AT has become a busy footpath with many drunken & unemployed young people.

The GPT should be renamed the GMBR, Ga mtn bike rte, because most of the 150 miles is better suited for biking. Many of the FSR's are hard packed gravel covered roads. And as there are few town stops AND bikers 1) have money & 2) dont carry tents/gear, there is likely more $$$$'s there. Currently bikers are mostly locals doing local sections. There is one $80/night 'resort' that gets out-of-towners, Mullberry Gap.


The GPT does have a bike race or two each year and there are horseback riders too, that might be a draw. I am wondering what it would take to thru on a horse (or bike).

The Pinhoti will never be an optional segment to the AT but I believe it is already a part of the IAT.

As noted before, sadly few people thru the APT. I met one hiker this year, a SB thru. Usually I will meet a couple of dayhiker; 6 this year.

I will try to get the location if the math-wizzards house to you this week.

atmilkman
12-16-2014, 01:03
i second that. A due diligence trip or trips is probably advised. Not cheering against your project at all but I'm definitely not for shifting the over impacted area from springer to somewhere on the AL Pinhoti.
For years I thought that this is what we wanted and needed. Now with all the trouble I'm reading about on the other threads I'm feeling somewhat reserved about the idea and second guessing "wants and needs".

gubbool
12-16-2014, 01:49
Rick Moon has been busy in that area. The footpath goes from the border, by the new Spring Branch Shelter, and to 100. The 'trail' is flagged and Rick has completed a good part between 100 and Santa Clause. There is a combo of trail and FSR to Old Cave Spring Road which leaves about 3 miles of roadwalk to CS. There is a plan to re-route the combo described above to a more pure footpath but that re-route will still start and end at or near the current tie-ends. My map kinda shows the current and the planned paths - the waypoints are good although the footpath wonders. The roadwalk between CS and the Highpoint TH has changed - longer but off 100 and sets up a hiker up for three ten-mile sections with legal camping... $18-ish at the Lock & Dam Park (showers, camp store, ekectric, laundry, etc)

Fyi, the new Section 28 has a you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me climb (heading NB) that I could not believe. It is about 2 miles long and I doubt a horse or bike rider could do it SB.

jbbweeks
12-16-2014, 10:44
If you would like to garner some OJT with a hostel, I have an opportunity in the VA Highlands that would be very economical and profitable.

brewyet
12-16-2014, 13:54
As a MTBer and hiker I would say the Georgia section of the Pinhoti might be a better starting point. Lots of mountain bikers go ride the Pinhoti year round and they usually are only looking for a place to say the weekend and are OK with spending money on places to stay.

swisscross
12-16-2014, 17:34
As a MTBer and hiker I would say the Georgia section of the Pinhoti might be a better starting point. Lots of mountain bikers go ride the Pinhoti year round and they usually are only looking for a place to say the weekend and are OK with spending money on places to stay.

If and only if, the Pinhoti is attached to the end of the AT, MTBer's will be kicked off the footpath.

BaxterBear
12-17-2014, 06:51
Thank you Blisterbob. I have lived by the motto that the more negativity I get regarding a proposal the more I look into it as it probably will turn out well. ;)

I am blessed by god to have the advantage of not worrying about turning a profit on these hostels or relying on them for my income.

golfjhm
12-17-2014, 08:41
Thank you Blisterbob. I have lived by the motto that the more negativity I get regarding a proposal the more I look into it as it probably will turn out well. ;)

I am blessed by god to have the advantage of not worrying about turning a profit on these hostels or relying on them for my income.

Might need to move over to the wealth and prosperity thread with another mention.

Coffee
12-17-2014, 10:07
Thank you Blisterbob. I have lived by the motto that the more negativity I get regarding a proposal the more I look into it as it probably will turn out well. ;)

I am blessed by god to have the advantage of not worrying about turning a profit on these hostels or relying on them for my income.

I get the impression that many hostels are run not purely for economic reasons. Nothing wrong with that.

Tennessee Viking
12-17-2014, 11:52
The Mountains to Sea Trail has about the same traffic flow. However, many people have dawned the name hostel along the Parkway sections since there is also motorcycle/biking crowds. Still a few areas need hostels or shuttlers. The Piedmont and Coast are starting show some interest by locals in becoming trail angels for MST hikers.

BaxterBear
12-18-2014, 14:08
I agree, but it confuses some people.

MuddyWaters
12-20-2014, 23:25
The chances of ATC adding several hundred miles to the AT are slim/none.

I am not commenting on the chances of this in particular.

But there is one absolute, that nothing stays the same forever. Change, is inevitable, and constant.

Slow at times, and rapid at others.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish.

I wouldnt bet the trail will be substantially different 1 year from now.
I would bet it will be 100 years from now.

gubbool
12-21-2014, 21:26
I cant provide the exact location (today) but there is an old house for sale right on the trail (below Helfin an unknown distance) that was once owned by the math-wizzard (dont know why he is no longer there).

these coords are near the old house. N33.32827 W85.99149

This appears to be the same site as mentioned by Blister Bob. It is mile 55-ish on my map.

soilman
12-21-2014, 22:38
I think it will take an act of Congress to extend the AT. The National Scenic Trail Act states that the AT will run from Katahdin to Springer Mt. If that is the case, I wouldn't hold my breath since it seems like Congress cannot not get anything done.

Matt65
12-21-2014, 23:42
these coords are near the old house. N33.32827 W85.99149

This appears to be the same site as mentioned by Blister Bob. It is mile 55-ish on my map.
We hiked from Porters to Adams Gap yesturday through heavy fog. The property at 600 Skyline appears to be vacant and still for sale. Below are a few pics I snapped as we passed through.

MuddyWaters
12-22-2014, 11:58
I think it will take an act of Congress to extend the AT. The National Scenic Trail Act states that the AT will run from Katahdin to Springer Mt. If that is the case, I wouldn't hold my breath since it seems like Congress cannot not get anything done.


CONNECTING AND SIDE TRAILS
SEC. 6. [16USC1245] Connecting or side trails within park, forest, and other recreation areas administered by the Secretary of the Interior or Secretary of Agriculture may be established, designated, and marked by the appropriate Secretary as components of a national recreation, national scenic or national historic trail.

It apparently does not take an act of congress to say that a connecting trail is part of the AT. The secretary in charge of the AT has the power to say that it is part of it. As long a the lands involved fall under federal juridiction.


and:


(b) After publication of notice of the availability of appropriate maps or descriptions in the Federal Register, the Secretary charged with the administration of a national scenic or national historic trail may relocate segments of a national scenic or national historic trail right-of-way with the concurrence of the head of the Federal agency having jurisdiction over the lands involved, upon a determination that: (I) Such a relocation is necessary to preserve the purposes for which the trail was established, or (ii) the relocation is necessary to promote a sound land management program in accordance with established multiple-use principles: Provided, That a substantial relocation of the rights-of-way for such trail shall be by Act of Congress.


Weasel words, but no relocation of the right of way would be undertaken, so I see that the secretary that oversees the AT has the authority to amend it. No act of congress needed. Whether or not congress would be needed would depend on the definition of substantial. This is why minor reroutes are possible. I think we have a congress as well that has proven to not care a hoot about the rule of law anyway anymore.

I dont see anything specifically relating to the moving terminus by adding to the trail. While the trails act specifies Springer to Katahdin, it also specifies some items that never came to be. IE its not perfect. Fpr instance the Natchez Trace Scenic Trail became a parkway, a paved road with only abut 60 miles of disjointed original trail, out of ~600, never to be connected.

al_stargazer
01-01-2015, 18:04
http://www.coosahikerhostel.weebly.com This is a new hostel that is being started in Rockford, Alabama.