View Full Version : The end of "HYOH"
BaxterBear
12-15-2014, 13:42
Let's discuss the term Hike Your Own Hike. Or HYOH.
With the problems the AT is facing and the recent outreaches to the AT community from the ATC and Baxter State Park, do you feel it's time to think about re-thinking the wisdom of 'HYOH'?
It's often used as a justification to deflect criticism based how one is acting in the woods. I personally have seen it used multiple times during my thru-hike by someone who was clearly misbehaving ( throwing trash in firepit, setting tent up in shelter refusing to take it down, littering, etc ) as then simply saying "HYOH" as that explains everything away. It was basically being used as a different term for "**** off".
Perhaps if everyone began to call people on behavior and reporting it heavily and authorities actually cared across the board, we might not have to worry about imminent changes to policy that are coming, permits, regulations, quotas, slots, etc.
Something has always bothered me about the spirit behind HYOH. The 'free spirit' manta seems to be in direct conflict with the future of the AT and sustainability.
Opinions, thoughts, all welcome!
I always thought "hike your own hike" was said in reference to the pace one does, or the gear one brings, or whether one blue blazes or not. Hike your own hike definitely does't (ok, it should NOT) mean it's ok to break rules or disrespect regulated wilderness areas.
ahhhhhhh............
hike your own hike...............
:P
I've heard it used more as "you are doing things wrong but HYOH." Could apply to gear, resupply choices, blue blazing,etc. I find saying or hearing HYOH to be irritating.
Tuckahoe
12-15-2014, 14:08
HYOH has nothing to do with accepting or condoning bad behavior, and everythinng to do with MYOB with regards to the gear that one chooses to carry and the manner one chooses to hike. I see no need to re-examine my thoughts and opinions of HYOH because of the misbehaving of others.
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 14:17
I often see HYOH being bantered about to condone crappy decisions and bad behavior. It's also used to stop anymore conversations on touchy subjects, like booze hounds on the trail, dope smoking, going Ultralight-ultrastupid, the addiction to trail shelters etc.
As BaxterBear says, it is often used to explain everything away.
And to go a further step, there are people who spout the HYOH mantra and if you disagree with something they say they upgrade the HYOH mantra to HMHDI---Hike My Hike, Damn It! and used in a sarcastic way for those of us who disagree with the HYOH mantra.
The weird and wonderful and convoluted world of Backpacking.
You, as in the entire backpacking community, all need to get out more.
I include myself in that statement.
squeezebox
12-15-2014, 14:30
It should be HYOH until your hike starts to interfear with someone elses' hike. Show some respect for other hikers, even if you don't have any respect for yourself.
Damn Yankee
12-15-2014, 14:40
I am not opposed to someone who is responsible, having a nip and a cigar or possibly smoke some weed. As long as it is done in the privacy of ones area away from others and without the smell invading others on trail. I don't condone ones bad behavior or the disrespect of others or state, federal regulation or contribute it to HYOH.
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 14:42
You, as in the entire backpacking community, all need to get out more.
I include myself in that statement.
You're right, just waiting for Christmas with the family to pass.
You're right, just waiting for Christmas with the family to pass.
im waiting for this thing called work to pass................
Sarcasm the elf
12-15-2014, 15:03
You, as in the entire backpacking community, all need to get out more.
I include myself in that statement.
Especially you...
... You write much better trip reports (and take better photos) than I do...
Sarcasm the elf
12-15-2014, 15:04
I always thought "hike your own hike" was said in reference to the pace one does, or the gear one brings, or whether one blue blazes or not. Hike your own hike definitely does't (ok, it should NOT) mean it's ok to break rules or disrespect regulated wilderness areas.
This......
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 15:06
im waiting for this thing called work to pass................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-0KHHdM0o&feature=player_detailpage
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 15:07
TNhiker---Play this vid 15 times, go out tonight and sleep in the cold. Get back in touch with me tomorrow.
oh trust me-----i dont want a job.....
but, i gots these things called bills and the cost of keeping alive......
i really didnt want a job after college but with the death of jerry garcia----things did change.....no more touring lifestyle (to a certain degree) for me......
i do tell all the intern kiddies at my work not to get a job after college...........at least for a few years....
thats the only time in their lives where they will be more or less completely free of obligation.........
Lone Wolf
12-15-2014, 15:14
jerry who?
I tell people to pretend that they earn 50% of what they really earn and save the rest. After about 20 years of doing that, there will be enough money to hike as many trails as desired and work as much or as little as desired - both due to accumulated savings and a low cost lifestyle.
This guy does a great job of advocating for this kind of lifestyle:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
jerry who?
garcia......
guitarist for the grateful dead..........
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 15:21
Or just be bum when you're young and you've got your health and work minimally and live with permission on some land in a wall tent or yurt or tipi and get your bag nights and generate no bills cuz you have no electricity and no running water and no property taxes and no house insurance. Do this until you get very old and then maybe consider gainful employment. In the meantime find a one-day-a-week job like a church janitor and pull in enough to live on $5,000 a year and be happy. Buy food and kerosene for your lamps and the occasional bowsaw and splitting maul.
The goal of life: Find out how little money you need to still be happy, and live outdoors all the time.
Lone Wolf
12-15-2014, 15:25
garcia......
guitarist for the grateful dead..........
know what he said after he got out of rehab?....this music sucks :)
well....
i did that for a few years after college (but not outdoors).....
then got a job that thankfully had health insurance as i've had health issues for the last ten years.....
kinda getting over them now, but had i not had insurance---i would have been in worse shape than i am today....
but, i figure i only have a few more working years left then my lifestyle will change yet again........
and right now---i am living off how little money i need to be happy but ive found that the many concert tickets i need to be happy come at a price.......
know what he said after he got out of rehab?....this music sucks :)
let me guess----besides a few songs---you've probably never listened to the grateful dead........
and cmon----come up with some funnier deadhead jokes..........
i know i can........
Lone Wolf
12-15-2014, 15:31
let me guess----besides a few songs---you've probably never listened to the grateful dead........
and cmon----come up with some funnier deadhead jokes..........
i know i can........
i've tried to listen to that crap but i never smoked dope or did other drugs to make it bearable
to each their own......
and fwiw---i didnt do drugs at the shows either..........
Sailing_Faith
12-15-2014, 15:33
Somewhere out in circulation are thousands of bumper stickers....
"Hike Your Own Hike" means to me, that in today's society where people refuse to take responsibility, and blaming others (or expecting others to support you) for the failures of your own choices. Hiking exists as an area where you bear responsibility and have the freedom that can only come with it
Bear eat your food? HYOH.
Cold at night because you brought the wrong gear? HYOH
Make camp after dark? Sleep in get a late start? Miss that great hostel because you wanted to make miles?
HYOH....
Life is simply too short to be lived to another's drum.
jerry who? It's an ice cream flavor.
+1 to DavidNH
dangerdave
12-15-2014, 15:35
For a lot of us, smoking dope and doing drugs didn't help either...:datz
Or just be bum when you're young and you've got your health and work minimally and live with permission on some land in a wall tent or yurt or tipi and get your bag nights and generate no bills cuz you have no electricity and no running water and no property taxes and no house insurance. Do this until you get very old and then maybe consider gainful employment. In the meantime find a one-day-a-week job like a church janitor and pull in enough to live on $5,000 a year and be happy. Buy food and kerosene for your lamps and the occasional bowsaw and splitting maul.
The goal of life: Find out how little money you need to still be happy, and live outdoors all the time.
Probably a tiny fraction of 1% would do this. But somewhat more might be willing to live on 50% of their actual income because doing that typically requires only foregoing things that would have been thought to be luxury items or plain ridiculous just a generation ago. $100 cell phone bills, $120 cable bills, $600 car payments, 3% down on $500K condos or $1M houses, $100-150 for a date night, anything at Whole Foods, anything at lululemon, and so forth. I live in urban yuppieland and most of the millennials around here will be broke all their lives. Which I guess is OK if they want to live in yuppieland for the rest of their lives and be wage slaves forever. But living on 50% of income for 20 years and having financial freedom worked for me and many others with minimal impact to standard of living. It helps to have cheap hobbies. Hiking is a very cheap hobby.
saltysack
12-15-2014, 16:37
Or just be bum when you're young and you've got your health and work minimally and live with permission on some land in a wall tent or yurt or tipi and get your bag nights and generate no bills cuz you have no electricity and no running water and no property taxes and no house insurance. Do this until you get very old and then maybe consider gainful employment. In the meantime find a one-day-a-week job like a church janitor and pull in enough to live on $5,000 a year and be happy. Buy food and kerosene for your lamps and the occasional bowsaw and splitting maul.
The goal of life: Find out how little money you need to still be happy, and live outdoors all the time.
I like the sound of this....I met a guy who lived just outside Damascus doing this...he shuttled me for MRO....interesting character...very friendly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not opposed to someone who is responsible, having a nip and a cigar or possibly smoke some weed. As long as it is done in the privacy of ones area away from others and without the smell invading others on trail. I don't condone ones bad behavior or the disrespect of others or state, federal regulation or contribute it to HYOH.
I agree. I guess I have been lucky as I didn't experience a lot of bad behavior during my thru or subsequent section hikes.
Mr. Bear I think you got HYOH confused with LNT ethics.
HYOH means what gear you are carrying, MPD you do, ETC
LNT is pack it in pack it out, ETC
if you see someone putting trash in the fire pit or along the trail or committing other offenses against LNT as responsible hikers we have the obligation to explain to these offenders LNT and it's Principles, and explain to them such behavior will not and should not be tolerated.
dangerdave
12-15-2014, 17:12
Ok, so let's get real. Those of us who love to hike, or live outdoors all the time on little money, or pursue their dreams without concern, are still relying on others who are not. No one lives an a bubble, especially that guy in Damascus. If everyone "pursued their dreams" nonstop, none of us would achieve them...unless your an anarchist.
And, Coffee, who cares if others want to live like yuppies. In a free country (or world), they are welcome to do just that, and can fully expect to be respected for the choice. It's their life, their "hike". They may be (and likely are) laughing at you just as much.
Extend the spirit of HYOH into every day life, and one becomes far more accepting of others.
And, Coffee, who cares if others want to live like yuppies. In a free country (or world), they are welcome to do just that, and can fully expect to be respected for the choice. It's their life, their "hike". They may be (and likely are) laughing at you just as much.
Absolutely, we are blessed to have the liberty to do as we please and I wouldn't have it any other way! But I don't have to respect what I think are poor choices or the entitled attitudes many people have regarding satisfying both unlimited immediate consumption and then complaining about being broke or poor in old age (and expecting subsidies and bailouts from those who were more responsible). And likewise, others don't have to accept or respect my choices even as I remain free to do what I please.
im waiting for this thing called work to pass................
Roger that...
HYOH and what you get out of it is a function of your own attitude. I see no reason to take anything but positive out of it, but that's just me.
What you can't do is hold the term HYOH on such a pedestal that folks who only want to deflect your criticism can successfully do so by invoking the term. If someone legitimately was not appropriate in the way they were treating the environment, or other hikers, or whatever it was, then I applaud you for saying something about it. Doesn't mean you can do anything more about it unless you want to pick a fight, but you also can't let them win by letting their misuse of the term HYOH decorate your perception of what that is.
rocketsocks
12-15-2014, 17:42
I've always felt HYOH was in regards to the style in which you hike...nothin to do with stickin' it to the man or being outside the law.
HYOH is what you say when busy bodies and know-it-alls try to tell you how you're suppose to hike.
People leaving trash are litters bugs. People breaking rules are rule breakers. It's a pretty simple set of designations to remember.
yerbyray
12-15-2014, 17:52
I have always used HYOH in defense of those self-professed gods of backpacking who say that their gear is the only gear that should be used or that their plan is the only plan to follow. People can't seem to get it through their heads that several generations have successfully hiked the AT and no two have been the same.
This is an interesting thread as I have never heard HYOH uttered to defend loose morals or ethics when it comes to good natural stewardship.
Tipi Walter
12-15-2014, 18:58
Ok, so let's get real. Those of us who love to hike, or live outdoors all the time on little money, or pursue their dreams without concern, are still relying on others who are not. No one lives an a bubble, especially that guy in Damascus. If everyone "pursued their dreams" nonstop, none of us would achieve them...unless your an anarchist.
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself and possibly need an argument to defer any attempt at living outdoors or in a primitive manner. "Still relying on others who are not" is absolutely no reason to not try and live simply. Trump relies on others, the town bum sleeping under a bush relies on others. We all need oxygen. So what?
I have always used HYOH in defense of those self-professed gods of backpacking who say that their gear is the only gear that should be used or that their plan is the only plan to follow. People can't seem to get it through their heads that several generations have successfully hiked the AT and no two have been the same.
This is an interesting thread as I have never heard HYOH uttered to defend loose morals or ethics when it comes to good natural stewardship.
The HYOH argument is one side of the coin, aloof thruhikers "holding court" at trail shelters and acting imperial to all others is a different side of the same coin. I saw it in it's full glory at the Thomas Knob shelter by Mt Rogers.
Lone Wolf
12-15-2014, 19:50
I've always felt HYOH was in regards to the style in which you hike...nothin to do with stickin' it to the man or being outside the law.
that's exactly what it means. nothin' more
dangerdave
12-15-2014, 20:18
Absolutely, we are blessed to have the liberty to do as we please and I wouldn't have it any other way! But I don't have to respect what I think are poor choices or the entitled attitudes many people have regarding satisfying both unlimited immediate consumption and then complaining about being broke or poor in old age (and expecting subsidies and bailouts from those who were more responsible). And likewise, others don't have to accept or respect my choices even as I remain free to do what I please.
Good point(s). What I should have said was we must respect their right to choose that lifestyle. Whether that lifestyle deserves respect is a matter of conjecture.
Good point(s). What I should have said was we must respect their right to choose that lifestyle. Whether that lifestyle deserves respect is a matter of conjecture.
I guess I have to respect it. If everyone practiced the kind of frugality that I advocate we would be in a great depression.
Here's one side of a HYOH coin. Freedom. The other side of the coin. Responsibility. They are both parts of the same coin.
Only when the HYOH coin has only the freedom engraving of that side of the coin is it not worthy of circulation.
Sheriff Cougar
12-15-2014, 21:37
I've heard it used more as "you are doing things wrong but HYOH." Could apply to gear, resupply choices, blue blazing,etc. I find saying or hearing HYOH to be irritating.
I agree with Coffee. It's the same to me as someone saying a sarcastic 'whatever'.
Another Kevin
12-15-2014, 22:53
I agree with Coffee. It's the same to me as someone saying a sarcastic 'whatever'.
Yeah, when I've said it myself, I've usually been feeling rather cross. Generally because some stranger has been extolling the virtues of his Jetboil over my alcohol system, or his fancy shell jacket over my Dri-Ducks, or some such. Or boasting about how many miles he makes. And I'm not really interested in comparing the sizes of our ... backpacks.
I wrote a journal entry about HYOH and about IHYH.
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=d60d627878ca77b24127146571c304 03&entry_id=23191
MuddyWaters
12-15-2014, 23:07
Your right to HYOH ends when it impacts others negatively.
rocketsocks
12-15-2014, 23:16
that's exactly what it means. nothin' more
HYOH; to thine own self be true.
example
Hiker #1 Ah man, the group I'm with wants to lay up for a day and go swimmin'
Hiker#2. Don't sweat it dude...HYOH
And I'm not really interested in comparing the sizes of our ... backpacks
remember----it's not the size of your backpack, it's how much you can cram into it.....
I have never understood the use of HYOH. To me there is no right way to hike so why the need for the expression? I think the root of the original post is that because of the cumulative selfish and irresponsible actions of a subset of hikers, future hikers may not have the option to hike the way they like, where they like, or when the like. I think there is a subset of hikers who think that being out in the woods is synonymous with freedom, ie. no rules or regulations to follow. They feel the rules and regulations on the trail and in town don't apply to them because they are thru hikers following their dream. And their dream is to act like a rock star, behaving badly and having a good time at others expense.
I think it started, because some people naturally walk faster and some people naturally walk slower.
If you slow down for a slower person, well, the hike isn't your hike. If you speed up, are you hiking your hike?
Both are not having a good hike, unless they actually enjoy accomodating each other. It isn't easy, hiking.
Then, a few people talked about meeting people on the trail who hike at about the same speed.
But most people started saying Hike Your Own Hike.
I think that is the origin of HYOH.
I think it started, because some people naturally walk faster and some people naturally walk slower.
If you slow down for a slower person, well, the hike isn't your hike. If you speed up, are you hiking your hike?
Both are not having a good hike, unless they actually enjoy accomodating each other. It isn't easy, hiking.
Then, a few people talked about meeting people on the trail who hike at about the same speed.
But most people started saying Hike Your Own Hike.
I think that is the origin of HYOH.
Whether or not that is the actual origin of HYOH, the point made above couldn't be any truer. I hiked several hundred miles with a guy that seriously increased his mileage to match mine and it wasn't good for either of us.
Tuckahoe
12-16-2014, 08:38
Your right to HYOH ends when it impacts others negatively.
Not quite... Your right to HYOH ends when it negatively impacts my life, liberty or property, or that of others. There are too many instances when the offended party should hear, "suck it up cupcake."
Starchild
12-16-2014, 10:16
HYOH only works when there is respect for others, nature and the earth. This forms the basis of the community where we can be ourselves and the concept of land stewardship, which we all are when we are out there for all that come later. It is realizing the power we have to make it better for the next person by our actions and not wanting to degrade their experience.
If that does not work, a person is out there not considering their effects or not caring about the greater hiking community, then that's where we get into the issue of management, education attempts, and ultimately enforcement. This downward spiral, removes the power of the individual and restricts their freedom to H'T'OH.
This is the common pattern of a uncaring and selfish society, when people are in it for themselves, such as smoking in public, or driving, and not using their actions to respect others, but just for self interests, rules and laws come about, and freedom to act is restricted.
The AT however is full of self-less people, trail angels and hikers willing to make it better because they do care about you and your journey. Many thru hikers said that on their thru they felt and experienced the goodness of humanity. In that there is much value in the thru, a real factor that can change a life to become more caring, realizing how good it is to receive such caring. Perhaps for many thru hikers it may have been the first time they really experienced human kindness. It is my believe that even if a person didn't change during the thru, the kindness given will change them in time.
Not quite... Your right to HYOH ends when it negatively impacts my life, liberty or property, or that of others. There are too many instances when the offended party should hear, "suck it up cupcake."
I'd also add negatively impacts the environment, but yeah.
I've heard hike your own hike waaaay too often. Suffice it to say, in my view, that if a hiker does any action be it playing loud music, smoking, drinking heavily or simply behaving like an ass, then the hike your own hike mantra has met it's end. I draw the line at anything that annoys or offends other hikers. So yeah.. suck it up cupcake and shut it off and put out that cig!
I've heard hike your own hike waaaay too often. Suffice it to say, in my view, that if a hiker does any action be it playing loud music, smoking, drinking heavily or simply behaving like an ass, then the hike your own hike mantra has met it's end. I draw the line at anything that annoys or offends other hikers. So yeah.. suck it up cupcake and shut it off and put out that cig!
I don't smoke (anything) but I've never had a problem with someone smoking near me, if I was a smoker I wouldn't have a problem with someone asking me to do it a few yards away from the shelter. And most smokers I know are only to happy to move away if someone asks them to.
As for the drinking heavily yeah in excess to where you start disturbing others it's bad, but a couple sips of whiskey at the end of the day never hurt nobody :D
Odd Man Out
12-16-2014, 17:25
It's like "stealth camping" and "thru hike". They all mean different things to different people, and to make it exciting, most people assume that their definition is the correct definition. UYOJ (use your own jargon). :)
double d
12-16-2014, 18:04
I always thought "hike your own hike" was said in reference to the pace one does, or the gear one brings, or whether one blue blazes or not. Hike your own hike definitely does't (ok, it should NOT) mean it's ok to break rules or disrespect regulated wilderness areas.
Agreed, HYOH doesn't apply to poor behavior in that ones behavior puts another person at some form of disadvantage (such us taking up more space at a shelter then needed).
jdc5294 someone smoking in proximity annoys the hell out of me. It stinks and it is second hand smoke which is not good for my health and is not why I go out there. Someone taking a couple sips of liquor isn't a big deal to me whereas a crowd of hikers cracking open a whole bunch of six packs and getting roudy is extremely annoying and rude. In my entire life I've never seen as many smokers and heavy drinkers as I have along the AT.
"In my entire life I've never seen as many smokers and heavy drinkers as I have along the AT."
Quite a few years ago, we had that at the end of dirt roads. Usually underage kids.
Is this at the shelters? Is this "on the trail"?
Sandy of PA
12-16-2014, 22:06
Yes, at the shelters, one more reason I love my tent!
BaxterBear
12-16-2014, 23:52
I can confirm that during my thru hike I encountered a tremendous amount of smokers and it greatly surprised me. I quickly learned that shelter sleeping was taking away enjoyment of the trail. Consistently, addicted smokers would wake up at night and smoke right in their sleeping bags, with the toxic smoke blowing over the sleeping hikers.
At first I always confronted them but soon realized that they had no interest in changing when all they would say to me after I voiced my concerns is HYOH and walk away. I was also told HYOH when I tried to educate fellow hikers about garbage in fire pits, correct use of privies, not sharing gorp with bare hands to try to mitigate the trail sickness that was going on that year, etc.
So I am sharing my experience with people using HYOH as a dismissive statement to defend what many see as bad behavior but to them it's perfectly ok.
My my enjoyment improved greatly when I just used shelters to cook and socialize, water up, then hike a little ways down the trail often backwards southbound so no one would bother me in the AM as they hiked on. I never rested better that I have when I was in that tent. You get the positive socialization and cooking space from shelters but avoid all the negative aspects of them. Was never bothered by mice again either.
I've seen tons of hikers smoking in or around shelters, a couple while hiking and boy at hostels. I remember staying in Gorham, NH at Hiker's paradise. It's a hostel and a bunch of hotel rooms (actually motel.. door opens to outside. I saw several a couple people sitting in chair right outside their motel room chain smoking and drinking alcohol in between puffs. One hand smokes, other hand brings up cup of alcohol. This more than anything else is just plain sad. They are 1) destroying their health, 2) more than offsetting any health benefits their hike may provide, and 3) not setting a good example for anyone.
But back to topic at hand.. tenting is a good one way to get away from these nuts. Trouble is.. there isn't always good tenting spots closeby shelters--within .5 mile or so.
It is true that one of the few remaining places where you see athletic activity coupled with smoking is in the backpacking world. But it seems to be more of an AT thing. I haven't seen much smoking out west, at least not cigarette smoking...
Starchild
12-17-2014, 09:24
I can confirm that during my thru hike I encountered a tremendous amount of smokers and it greatly surprised me. I quickly learned that shelter sleeping was taking away enjoyment of the trail. Consistently, addicted smokers would wake up at night and smoke right in their sleeping bags, with the toxic smoke blowing over the sleeping hikers.
At first I always confronted them but soon realized that they had no interest in changing when all they would say to me after I voiced my concerns is HYOH and walk away.....
I was greatly surprised at the number of smokers on the trail, and the trail magic of tobacco offered them. Did not however experience the problem you mentioned, most were considerate to start with, all were responsive to requests.
And it does not need saying that as this is preaching to the choir here, when they say HYOH in such a response it is exactly the opposite of what they are doing, by smoking in a full shelter they are forcing you to hike their hike and not allowing you to HYOH.
gsingjane
12-17-2014, 09:56
I had a couple of observations to contribute, based on my short-ish immersion in the thru-hiker pack of 2014 last summer.
Whether I like it or not, the old-school hiker - the guy or gal who comes out of a Scouting background or outdoorsy childhood, who just truly loves nature, can identify the trees and wildlife and bugs, who would go out hiking in a vacant lot if there was nothing else on offer - that person is pretty hard to find nowadays, at least doing a thru-hike.
And, I find the comments about drug, alcohol, and cigarette use to be right on-point. I am certainly no "babe in the woods" when it comes to drug use (I'm not any kind of babe, sad to say) but, I did observe a strikingly large number of hikers who appeared to use the thru-hike as a 6-month long reason to indulge, and who might be well-advised to seriously re-evaluate their substance use in the future. It was explained to me as "killing the pain" or "killing the boredom," but if you have to stay stoned to endure something, maybe that something isn't for you. Maybe it was just where I was, the middle portion of the hike, but the number of thrus I met who hiked, essentially, from one trail town/getting trashed opportunity to another was... pretty substantial. And, as someone who doesn't indulge, it felt a lot like being back in high school, and not in a good way.
Second, and I have not seen this addressed specifically, what I also feel is a major change to trail culture is the influence of the ultra- or extreme sports mentality, made possible of course by greatly lightened gear and knowledge of UL practices. I understand that people do have to make big miles to accomplish a thru-hike, but it also seems to me that there has been a large increase in the number of people who look at hiking the AT primarily as an athletic or endurance sport, rather than a nature or camping-focused endeavor. And, that view also could lead to a more careless approach to the environment (e.g., when you are running a marathon, you pitch your gel packs or used cups). I am sure this isn't the vast majority of "ultra-users" but it might account for some of the same attitude.... at that level you're just trying to survive, and the aesthetic issues become secondary at best.
Would it change the approach of trail monitors and overseers, to better understand the thru-hiker population? I would say, yes - to know that many folks are looking at a thru-hike as a "one and done" or "bucket list" activity, rather than a life-long pastime or commitment, does imply that different tools and approaches will be needed to reach many of the folks involved and affected. If people are motivated by different things than they used to be, this will affect planning, communications, and especially incentives to encourage what we might consider "good" or "pro-social" behavior.
Jane
I don't understand the motivation for substance abuse on the trail. It makes hiking harder, not easier, and if an escape from a hike is desired, then maybe a zero day is in order or maybe the person isn't enjoying the hike and should stop. Smoking, in any form, seems particularly perverse given that it reduces lung capacity which makes hiking harder. But I don't really care if people smoke as long as they are considerate.
Starchild
12-17-2014, 10:06
I feel we need to reanalyze the definition of HYOH and express it differently, stress the 'Your' part. Meaning hike a hike that does not influence or detract from others. May your hike yours and do not force others to hike your hike.
IMHO this is the only way HYOH is sustainable.
Dadburnet
12-17-2014, 10:11
Bill Harris is a good man.
Dadburnet
12-17-2014, 10:15
Bill Harris is a good man. That is the Simple living guy that shuttled you from Damascus.
I don't understand the motivation for substance abuse on the trail. It makes hiking harder, not easier, and if an escape from a hike is desired, then maybe a zero day is in order or maybe the person isn't enjoying the hike and should stop. Smoking, in any form, seems particularly perverse given that it reduces lung capacity which makes hiking harder. But I don't really care if people smoke as long as they are considerate.
I agree. Don't understand it, but don't care if they are considerate.
Tipi Walter
12-17-2014, 11:54
All this talk of the negatories of the AT reminds me that the AT is just a fraction of a trail surrounded by thousands of miles of other trails. Smokers, drunks, dopers, Ultralight wannabe olympians, bonfire fanatics, rat-box shelter lovers, smug trail gurus---all this can be avoided by seeking out other trails.
If you want a nature experience and not a social experience, go elsewhere. Use the AT only to link up other trails. Avoid the rat-box shelters as you would avoid a nest of brown recluse spiders. No one is forcing another person to hike the AT in April. There's a vast national forest area from Georgia to Tennessee and North Carolina and Virginia. It's called the Nantahala and the Cherokee and the Jefferson and the Chattahoocee and the Croatan and the Daniel Boone and the Francis Marion and the George Washington and the Monongahela and the Pisgah and the Sumter and the Uwharrie National Forests.
Slo-go'en
12-17-2014, 12:00
I always get a kick out of people complaining about tobacco smoke but think nothing of the smoke from a smoldering camp fire which is way worse for you. Sure the tobacco smoke is annoying, but unlike a camp fire it doesn't last long.
Lone Wolf
12-17-2014, 12:05
Let's discuss the term Hike Your Own Hike. Or HYOH.
the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to
HYOH usually means you hike your own pace, with your preferred gear, you do not have to spend the entire day hiking together with that "other" person. Nowadays it seems to be an excuse given by bratty thru hikers to behave like they the entire AT is just another scene from the movie "Animal House".
JumpMaster Blaster
12-17-2014, 12:22
I like the sound of this....I met a guy who lived just outside Damascus doing this...he shuttled me for MRO....interesting character...very friendly.
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I met that guy...
the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to
We live in a changing world. Unfortunately the traditional thru-hiker from the 80s has also changed. Then it was a time to do a adventure that took you outdoors to enjoy nature. Today it means "it's one long party."
freightliner
12-17-2014, 13:27
the term started in late 80s-early 90s. it's pretty much what blue-blazers would say to purists when the purists would give you crap for missing some white blazes. now the term means all kinds of things. just like trail magic and trail angels. these terms don't mean what they used to
Mr. wolf you've been around long enough to know who started this whole thing its all about Wingfoot. He wanted the hikers who walked every mile of trail in one go to be the only ones called thru hikers. In reality it doesn't matter how you thru the trail long as you go from one end to the other. They HYOH him right out of the AT trail community. There will never be a right way or wrong way to hike the trail and I also think they'll never be too many hikers. There will be a lot more talk about leave no trace and hike with harmony. The thru party hike must stop and it is up to the ATC to make it happen. In all fairness I find it is the weekend campers that do the most damage. I will also throw in the homeless hikers too. They always seem to leave a pile of garbage behind. They also don't leave until all the wood in the area is burned up.
gsingjane
12-17-2014, 14:07
With immense respect to you, Tipi, I'm just not sure the complete answer here is "don't hike the AT if you don't like [X, Y, and Z]." I do plan on doing just what you suggest - God and my knee willing next summer's backpacking adventure won't take place on the AT but - just because you, or I, or anybody else isn't there to look at what's happening on the AT, doesn't mean it isn't happening, you know? Or that it isn't important, in a more general sense, to those of us who love backpacking, camping, nature, and getting outside. I have found the discussions here over the past week to be very informative and extremely civilized (for WB) and it seems clear to me, there are some giant problems calling for creative solutions. Even if I never take another step on the AT, I will still care about it!
Jane
Slo-go'en
12-17-2014, 14:22
We live in a changing world. Unfortunately the traditional thru-hiker from the 80s has also changed. Then it was a time to do a adventure that took you outdoors to enjoy nature. Today it means "it's one long party."
I got news for you. There was plenty of smoking and drinking on the trail in the 70's and 80's. Maybe even more so then today. I don't remember any specifics, but I do remember having fun :)
Abatis1948
12-17-2014, 14:27
We need the crowds, but we need the crowds to follow LNT rules. We as hikers need to teach others to respect what we have and police ourselves. When you see a hiker about to put trash in a pit or throw sometime on the path. Ask them if they would rather allow you to carry it out. At the same time explain to them why it is wrong to trash the trails. I have talked to folks who actually think people are paid to clean up their trash. If you are able to convince one out of five to practice LNT, eventually things will get better. I’m too old to do what I would rather teach them, but they would leave even more trash on the trail if they had to limp back to the trailhead.
Tipi Walter
12-17-2014, 14:33
Gsingjane---I get your point. If I love Trail A, I should be concerned about Trail B.
Creative Solutions---
** Educate miscreants (i.e. litterbugs, drunks, dopers---if they or you can handle it).
** Destroy all trail shelters and institute dispersed camping along 2,000 miles of trail. Plenty of places to hammock and tent camp. Millions of acres.
** Pick the worst weather conditions and hit the Appalachian Trail---the great majority will be holed up in towns.
** Never ever camp near a trail shelter. This rule has protected me from the lunacy.
** Become a "Menacing Vegetable" i.e. encourage UL speed demons and high mileage types to slow down, pull more in-tent zeros, carry more weight, visit less towns, stumble more in snow, weep more in high open bald windstorms etc.
Abatis1948 is right---we need to police ourselves. Either that or avoid the idiots. Easy to do by avoiding the AT during peak season.
postholer.com
12-17-2014, 15:02
HYOH: Do what YOU want. Simple. I completely agree with the sentiment in all things, hiking or otherwise.
The less obvious implication is we face inescapable postive/negative consequences for our actions.
Hike faster to keep up with friends, your body may react badly to it - consequence.
Lighten your load with no bear canister, possibly be cited for it - consequence.
Slow down your hike, maybe enjoy things more, maybe not finish the trail - consequences.
See? Simple. Do whatever you like, just be prepared for the inevitable consequences.
HYOH,
-postholer
Tipi Walter
12-17-2014, 15:08
HYOH: Do what YOU want. Simple. I completely agree with the sentiment in all things, hiking or otherwise.
The less obvious implication is we face inescapable postive/negative consequences for our actions.
Hike faster to keep up with friends, your body may react badly to it - consequence.
Lighten your load with no bear canister, possibly be cited for it - consequence.
Slow down your hike, maybe enjoy things more, maybe not finish the trail - consequences.
See? Simple. Do whatever you like, just be prepared for the inevitable consequences.
HYOH,
-postholer
Good response. Solo backpacking where I see no one, ever, is full of self-generated consequences. It's the only way to be and the best way to be.
If a tree falls in the forest with no one but me, who will hear it? Just me.
And hopefully I looked up beforehand and didn't set up under a dead tree.
saltysack
12-17-2014, 15:26
We live in a changing world. Unfortunately the traditional thru-hiker from the 80s has also changed. Then it was a time to do a adventure that took you outdoors to enjoy nature. Today it means "it's one long party."
This is why a sobo thru appeals more to me...hopefully one day!!!
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This is why a sobo thru appeals more to me...hopefully one day!!!
Either 2016 or 2017 SOBO for me. I want NO part in the NOBO bubble, the party atmosphere or the crowds. And SOBO logistics are easy. I'll just reserve a campsite at Baxter for two nights way ahead of time, summit Katahdin as a day hike, and then head south. I'm particularly looking forward to the fall colors on a SOBO hike and then finishing by Thanksgiving.
saltysack
12-17-2014, 15:33
Either 2016 or 2017 SOBO for me. I want NO part in the NOBO bubble, the party atmosphere or the crowds. And SOBO logistics are easy. I'll just reserve a campsite at Baxter for two nights way ahead of time, summit Katahdin as a day hike, and then head south. I'm particularly looking forward to the fall colors on a SOBO hike and then finishing by Thanksgiving.
Yep...i would like to start mid late July......would hope to complete by thanksgiving.....at least Xmas.. I enjoy the solitude of the trail not big groups.....unfortunately it's going to be almost 10 years till I go!!! O well lots of weekend hikes to then!!
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Hot Flash
12-17-2014, 15:59
HYOH ends when you start infringing on the rights of others, or start thinking that you should get special treatment in some way.
Lone Wolf
12-17-2014, 16:54
HYOH ends when you start infringing on the rights of others, or start thinking that you should get special treatment in some way.
that has nothin' to do with HYOH, that's just being a Dbag
Another Kevin
12-17-2014, 17:09
HYOH: Do what YOU want. Simple. I completely agree with the sentiment in all things, hiking or otherwise.
Eight words the greater rede fulfill:
"An it harm none, do what ye will."
hikehunter
12-18-2014, 02:05
"RYFH".......this should be the new one....
RESPECT YOUR FELLOW HIKER......:-?:-?:-?:-?:-?
Tipi Walter
12-18-2014, 10:18
"RYFH".......this should be the new one....
RESPECT YOUR FELLOW HIKER......:-?:-?:-?:-?:-?
Or AYFH. . . . AVOID YOUR FELLOW HIKER.
Abatis1948
12-18-2014, 10:55
It is simple. We hike our own hike each time we hit the trail. I think what we need to do is start respecting each other. I am not worried about the masses in the next couple of years, I think most of them will be off the trail before they hit NC. I am worried about them trashing the trail. I am willing to pay a small fee and/or take a meaningful class teaching trail ethics and LNT. I know many of you are thinking NOT ON PUBLIC LAND. Come on Folks, nothing is free.
"We have met the enemy, and he is us," as Pogo says (a reference that only those of us of a certain age will get). It would seem that we are victims of our own success. If we take a historical perspective for a moment...
Back in the day (pre late 1960's), hiking, and especially backpacking, and even more especially, thru hiking, was a pretty elite experience--that is to say it was practiced by a very small number of people. As young people began to look for ways to disengage from the mainstream, backpacking became more popular and trails in general saw a significant increase in use. However, that use was still being done in the "old way"--cutting pine boughs for a mattress, throwing your empty cans and packaging in the "dump" behind the campsites, etc. It was considered standard practice, until the number of trail visitors began to increase beyond what those practices could sustain.
So, various hiking organizations (AMC in particular in NE), began to promote a more sustainable approach. Campsites were cleaned up, privies built, old trash hauled out--and hikers were educated about ways to leave less of an impact behind them.
After hitting a plateau in the 80's, trail use (particularly, the AT) started to climb again, and after 2000, the numbers really start to increase more rapidly than ever before. I think that there was (is) always a "renegade" element in the hiking community. We did it to get away from a society that required a lot of constraints. We enjoyed freedom of action, only interacted with people we liked (and were like us), and had no need to conform to any but the most basic norms. And let's not forget, that many, many long distance hikers are not only seeking solitude and reflection, they are also seeking a social experience, that perhaps they aren't finding in the "built environment".
Now that our numbers as so high, and use is so concentrated (like at Baxter, Dragon's Tooth, etc), that style of self-interested social behavior can't survive. Too many people who act only in their own self interests--be they thru hikers (a VAST minority of AT visitors), or other trail visitors--dooms everyone to having to create a behavior system suitable for larger numbers of us, rather than one that works for small groups.
I desperately want the AT to survive as a place where freedom in all its senses is still available to visitors. I also want it to be available to anyone who makes an effort to experience it. But when large numbers of visitors congregate, that freedom is inevitably compromised. I hope that we will be able to weather this steep rise in popularity before the Trail experience collapses under the weight of its visitors, or regulations that (necessarily) might be put in place to preserve what we have for the long term. At present, the best way to avoid this is to set aside the desire to be relieved of responsibility and step up to lead, teach, advocate and demonstrate conduct that respects both the physical and social resources the AT provides. You know what is right, don't be afraid to help others find it too.
Stepping down from the pulpit,
Cosmo
BaxterBear
12-18-2014, 14:30
I hope the AMC "Steps up" to help fix this. Lord knows I have donated a rather large total sum to them over several years time. AMC has the money to truly help with this issue.
OK, posting twice in a day is unusual for me, but here are some interesting thoughts:
http://appalachiantrials.com/thru-hikers-code-conduct/