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max patch
10-24-2005, 11:15
I went car camping at a state park this weekend for the first time in longer than I can remember. The whole nine yards; coleman stove and lantern; large cooler full of drinks, steaks; bacon, large plastic container of dry goods, fixings for smores, etc. Even took wood from the back yard so I wouldn't have to forage.

After setting up camp we walked around the park. I was surprised at what I saw. "Campers" were in the very distinct minority. Almost everyone there was in a RV. Most the the RV's were large. On both sides of us were RV's with portable satellite dishes. One of them had a huge flat screen which he kept going most of time we were there.

I'm not being critical of the RV'ers. I mention this only because I was really surprised at what "camping" has turned into; at least at this park on this particular weekend and how this contrasted to my childhood.

I wonder if this has any significance in the future? Will children who RV today want to hike tomorrow? Or will the "outdoors" just be a different place to watch TV and play video games?

In any event, we had a great time did a couple short 3.5 mile hikes both days.

One more interesting observation. The trailhead had warnings...uneven terrain, logs and branches could be on the trail, could get muddy if it rained or slippery if it snowed. Funny!

Alligator
10-24-2005, 11:59
I think there's a bit more disposable income available these days. I don't know if there will be less kids hiking in the future. It probably depends on whether the kids actually get away from the RV or not. I think though there are still a lot of tent campers out there too. I know when I go car camping, I like to bring my canoe, my mt. bike, and my boots. And a cooler too:) .

I have a little four cylinder, poptop "RV";) , but hate being in with the full size folks. I can't stand the generators running. What you should look for is a site away from any sites with hookups and watch for the pullin size nearby. Also steer away from the dump station loop. USFS undeveloped campgrounds are a good choice. On the national forests, if you are familiar with the area, you can generally camp at any of the unmarked sites you often see when traveling forest roads. Just check local forest rules.

LIhikers
10-24-2005, 17:23
I've noticed the RV phenomena also. They start out big and then get bigger by having the slide out sections. Then the wooden deck gets laid out and the screen room erected on the deck. The generators cycle on and off all day and the airconditioner runs all night. The only time you see the people is when they get in the car to drive to the campground store to buy their precooked chicken and icecream deserts. All evening the "blue light" of the television can be seen flickering in their windows. Makes me wonder why they even bother.

Although, I'm sure some people think similar things of me. You see, me and the wife have an RV of sorts. It's a 1971 VW bus with the Westphalia camper conversion. The back seat folds out into a bed, there is a fold up table, and a cabinet that houses an icebox and a small sink with facet, which is plumbed to a 7 gallon water tank. The top "pops" up so that you can stand inside. It doesn't go fast, but it's a load of fun.

Almost There
10-24-2005, 17:31
No,

I noticed this phenomena hiking into Standing Indian Campground near Franklin, NC.
Coming off the Kimsey Creek trail I had to ford a large creek, and out of the wilderness into RV land. People were looking at me with my pack on like I didn't belong there. Although, some people did have tents set up near their behemoth RVs. I don't get it, but to each their own!

QHShowoman
10-24-2005, 17:37
I did some car camping at Elizabeth Furnace this summer in VA and I found the scene to actually be tent-camper heavy ... in fact, I think I counted only one pop-up camper in the whole campground, in addition to the maintainer's RV. Two RV's did try to camp, but they came in on Sat a.m. and there were no sites left. Granted, this campground doesn't provide any hookups, but still. I was even more suprised at the number of families with children camping ... numerous times I said aloud to my girlfriend that these kids were likely to grow up with fond childhood memories of their time spent in the outdoors and pass on their love of nature to their own children.

starvingmusician
10-24-2005, 17:53
Have to weigh in on this one… been lurking for a while and have been reluctant to post because I’m not a hiker (yet).

I took a little bicycle ride the first week of October and stopped at an Army Corps of Engineers campground. The place was almost deserted. I do have some notes in my journal about the number of campers I encountered:

8 self-contained RVs

3 travel trailers

0 pop-ups

1 enormous tent with two rooms on either side

1 hammock (me)

Perhaps it was because temps were expected to fall into the upper 30's and it was the end of the season that kept campers away. However, one couple with five of their grandchildren seemed especially interested in my set-up and "adopted" me for the evening and asked lots of questions. Because my 11 year-old daughter and I spend quite a bit of time bicycle/camping together, the 12 year-old granddaughter was particularly intrigued by our little adventures. The next morning, after feeding me a breakfast of french toast and coffee (I never turn down a free meal with pleasant company), the youngsters watched me break camp and load my bike, but not after they boiled water on my iso-butane stove, stuffed my sleeping bag into it’s sack, and climbed into my hammock for a try.

I may not have made any immediate converts, but I am hoping that one twelve year old girl grows up and decides to do something more "primitive", just as I yearn to do some long-distance hiking.

I also noticed that although people are "camping" in RVs, they do spend time outdoors during the day. The area I was in has a superlative rail/trail, beautiful scenery, whitewater rafting, hiking trails, fishing and boating. Granted, a great deal of trail is devoted to the casual day-hiker from suburbia. It’s not the AT to be sure, but it seems to take a special type of person(ality?) to make that AT trek.

Judy

Peaks
10-24-2005, 18:00
During my coast to coast bike trip, we frequently tented at public campgrounds. (Yes, tenters were definately in the minority). In the evening, people would typically go for a stroll around the campground. When they say my one man backpacking then, some remarked "Isn't that cute!"

SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 18:08
RVs are a whole other culture just like backpacking. My father-in-law is an RVer, and to them, they admire bigger, better, and more gadgets. To the RVer I have seen (I got to go visit them in an RV park yeasterday) the idea is to see how much they can make their RV like a home away from home. The fact that they only have 5' space from one site to another is no biggy to them. I consider it more like having a portable hotel room than camping - just find you a hook up spot and bring the hotel with you. Funny thing is they could get a hotel room for less than the hook up and payment, then they could save on all that gas too by just driving a big SUV :D

rickb
10-24-2005, 18:16
We've used car camping spots a decent amount as either a first night jumping off point, or as a base camp, when visiting some of the National Parks. And have used state campgrounds for weekend reunions.

Some things that I have noticed include:

1. The big tents being used by families seem to be muted shades of green, gray, tan, brown or gray. But the small tents set up by the fellow backpackers seem to be bright yellow, bright blue, purple or an otherwise loud color.

2. The indidual sites are often more private than individual sites in a "designated" back country camping area on the AT.

3. Car campers eat better than us.

Deb
10-24-2005, 18:17
I was a novice to any kind of camping until a few years ago. To allay my fears (sounds comical now, but that was the case), car camping was a good way to start. I enjoyed exploring new areas in the Berkshires; I'd hike and always brought my mountain bike.
Being able to go during the week meant there were few people around. The fewer people around, the better the chances of not having to put up with boom-boxes and generators.
Had my experience compromised more than once though by noisy neighbors. Finally I was comfortable enough with night noises and sleeping in a tent by myself to ditch state parks for backpacking. That is really getting away.
I still enjoy car camping once in a while. Spent a memorable night at High Point State Park in NJ last November - watched a total eclipse of the moon from a tent platform on the shore of Sawmill Lake.
There are quite a few parks that don't have hook-ups and don't cater to the RV crowd; you just have to look for them.

Youngblood
10-24-2005, 18:46
I've stayed at campgrounds that were primarily for RVs a few times, mostly when I was meeting up with a group of people for some outing. What I noticed was that a lot of them stayed in various locations for a few weeks and then moved on. Basically touring and they were like the communities of my youth were people strolled about and talked to the folks lounging about outside. They were very friendly and easy to get to know. Seemed like a lot of them made plans to meet at other locations down the road as well. Seemed pretty sweet to me, especially if you weren't into to long distance hiking and enjoyed the outdoors, seeing new things, making new friends and seeing old friends... not so different from a lot of us, just cost more money and easier to do, especially if you can't lug a dang ol' backpack through the mountains all day.

Youngblood

max patch
10-24-2005, 20:08
The RV'ers didn't bother us at all; I only started the thread because I was shocked that "camping" meant using tents for only a very few sites. I remember when Dad took us camping at state parks almost everyone was in tents...just an occasional nimrod (?) or coleman tag along popup was used.

The RV'ers next to us were actually quieter than we were. We both had dinner and a fire; but while we stayed up til 11:00 talking they went inside about 9:00 or so to watch the baseball game.

And when I walked to the bathroom at 4:00 am I was actually kinda envious of the RV'ers.

quinnections
10-24-2005, 20:11
As a kid we had an RV. As I grew up my wife (who had never camped) and I started with a small tent, then a little bigger tent. After some interesting encounters with weather and slithering animals we bought our first travel trailer (16 foot). A couple years later came the bigger travel trailer (30 footer).

I just sold the 30 footer a few weeks ago and am buying a new tent, pack, etc. to get my oldest (6 year old) out in the woods and camping the "old fashioned way". :)

Tom

CynJ
10-24-2005, 20:43
We are getting a small camping trailer in the spring. Its something we've wanted to do since we got married and are finally doing it.

Couple reasons why:

1) We can take off for the weekend and not have to worry about a hotel/room etc and just see where we end up

2) My husband shattered his hip in a mountain biking accident 8 years ago and sleeping on the ground is absolutely miserable for him (I don't know if I will ever get him to go backpacking -even with great gear)

3) We have a dog that is more like a child to us - she goes everywhere with us and although a lot of hotel/motels allow pets now its still a hassle if you go to a tourist area and want to go inside somewhere. Leaving her in the truck isn't going to work in the warmer weather, but leaving her in an a/c'd trailer would work.

My husband won't fly so our vacation options need to involve driving somewhere. Having a camper will allow us to go visit more great places reasonably inexpensively.

As a side note: We are not getting what we jokingly call one of "THOSE" trailers - the kind with the cherry cabinets and Italian marble floors and a tv in every room with a satellite dish. We want a very plain, sturdy little camper. Nothing fancy at all. :D

neo
10-24-2005, 20:47
we car camp at meriwether lewis on the natchez trace parkway,it beautiful,its free,and never crowed:cool: neo

nerdishgrrl
10-24-2005, 21:21
I spent at least a week of every summer growing up at North Creek Campground. Its down the mountain from Apple Orchard Falls, and within a stone's throw of Cornelius Creek Shelter(?). Its great, all tent sites, no hookups, not even a flush toilet on the premisis. I loved it then and i still love it now. I highly suggest it for kids, lots of little trails around and close to the AT.

weary
10-24-2005, 21:40
My wife and I returned two weeks ago from a six week car camping trip through the United States and Canada. We started from our home on midcoast Maine and took the northern route through National Parks and forests west to Olympic National Park. There we took a ferry to Victoria, BC, and returned via the national and provincial parks of Canada until we reached Coburn Gore on the Maine-Quebec border.

We found that virtually all the commercial campgrounds catered mostly to RVs. We were using a four man backpacking tent and quickly learned to avoid the commercial sites.

Many of the state and provincial sites also leaned heavily towards RV facilities. But most had camping only sections with vacancies. All and all it was a great trip and I was surprised to find that tent camping is still a viable option, especially in the National Parks and Forests.

Oh yes. We cheated and hit a motel every few nights to enjoy a restuarant meal and a shower.

Weary

Sly
10-24-2005, 22:00
I've stayed at North Creek, nice place! A little more than a stones throw from Cornelius Creek. I think it's closer to Bryant Ridge. ;)

Another reason I prefer Big Creek in the Smokies, no RV's!

CynJ
10-24-2005, 22:00
just an occasional nimrod (?)
I think that would have been a Nomad :D

chknfngrs
10-25-2005, 09:08
Not trailer trash talking, but I used to have an RV parked in back of my house, and rented it out for an entire NC summer to a friend of mine. But that's not why I mention the plus sides of RVs... different story altogether...

I would do anything to have that type of luxury base camp again! It was one of those hardtop trailers that slept 3 comfortably, 6 in a pinch. We would take it along whenever we did surf trips and epic mtn bike rides and use it as HQ. Kept it regularly stocked and never had to worry about "what'd I forget"

I grew up tent camping, still love backpacking, but also loved parking it in the middle of nowhere on BLM land (who really needs Hookups?!) I'd buy an RV if I could, under the pretense that I'd never go to commerical sites unless I had to. And look what we even did, rented it to make some scratch in it's down time!

Peaks
10-25-2005, 09:10
Since we are telling stories, my wife and I were section hikers before children came along. After the arrival of our first child, we bought a VW camper. It was our family car. We kept it loaded, and enjoyed several trips with it, from New England to Virginia to North Carolina and out to the Rockies. The VW fitted our lifestyle when the children were young.

Now, we have gravitated back to more backpacking and other adventures. And we still tent camp in campgrounds as well. I wouldn't mind buying another vehicle like the VW camper and hitting the roads and trails with it again.

There is a time and place for both backpacking, and public campgrounds.

hiker33
10-25-2005, 10:27
I agree with what others have said about the popularity of RV's vs. tents nowadays. This past summer the local paper carried an article about declining numbers of users at Blue Ridge Parkway campgrounds. These areas lack showers and hookups which many people insist on today. I actually prefer these types of campgrounds, though showers are nice if you plan on staying more than a couple of nights.

It is still possible to find campgrounds that are tent-friendly, either because the sites or locations are not conducive to larger RV's or because they have walk-in areas for tents that are separated from the RV areas. An excellent series of books is the "Best Tent Camping" collection from Manesha Ridge Press. Johnny Malloy has written two volumes covering the southern Appalachians and the Carolinas. There's also a new one out for New England. Most of the listed campgrounds are national forest, national park, or state sites. My wife and I have stayed in a number of these areas and while we've seen our share of RV's tents are at least equally as popular. I recommend these books to anyone looking for a quieter, tent-friendly experience.

Cookerhiker
10-25-2005, 15:27
I've car-camped over 30 years in addition to my backpacking. Car-camping has been with either my backpacking tent or my 4-person hexagonal Eureka stand-inside dome tent. I completely avoid private campgrounds. Sometimes at parks, I've felt squeezed where 90% of the "campers" are RVers but not always. In my own experience, RVs have not become more prevalent in the last 20 years; i.e. 20 years ago they were as prolific as now. It depends on the locale. Last year camping at state parks in Florida, I was distinctly in the minority. But camping in June at Lewis Mountain CG Shenandoah NP for trail maintenance and trail magic, tents ruled.

When our children were younger, we family car-camped at numerous national parks around the US and Canada. I don't think the mix of tents vs. RVs has changed much now.

As noted by others, the culture is different but I've generally gotten along OK with the RVers - my major problem has been incompatible sleeping hours. If some RVers are reveling too much keeping me awake at night, I don't feel guilty about waking them up early in the morning.

And that reminds me: one of the nicest state parks close to the AT is Housatonic Meadows in Connecticut. I base-camped there in Fall, 2003 while slackpacking the AT in CT. When I returned to camp after a day of hiking, a ranger berated me for making too much noise early in the morning before quiet hours ended at 6AM.

max patch
10-26-2005, 07:44
Well, it appears based on the comments above it seems that RVer's have pretty much taken over many of the campgrounds.

Which explains why the cost of a campgsite was $20 for a regular site or $22 for a lake front site -- gotta recover the cost of the electricity used and the cost of the dump stations. Seems like a 2 tier pricing model should be used for those who don't need the extra services.

Didn't know what to expect in terms of cost but $44 for a spot on the ground seemed high to me. Surely this affect the affects the ability of low income folks to use a government facility which we already "own" as taxpayers. Oh well, still much cheaper than a Braves game.

dudley
10-26-2005, 08:49
My parents took the family car camping since I was an infant.
In the '50s and early '60s we had a heavy, floorless, canvas tent.
We went to some great places. Nothing like the smell of wet canvas to bring back old camping memories.
By around '64 we needed more room and mom was sick of sleeping on the ground so they bought an early pop-up.
Over the years they went to a travel trailer and then a motor home.
Before mom passed on, the two of them were campin' fools.
Traveling all around the U.S and Canada for up to a year at a time.
They had a time, and dad always has a story to tell.

This past July forth weekend we went to visit my sister in-law and her husband who had their "motor coach" at a local RV park.
All I could think of was that I would have to say "Excuse me" to the neighbors if I passed gas.

Alligator
10-26-2005, 10:18
Well, it appears based on the comments above it seems that RVer's have pretty much taken over many of the campgrounds.

Which explains why the cost of a campgsite was $20 for a regular site or $22 for a lake front site -- gotta recover the cost of the electricity used and the cost of the dump stations. Seems like a 2 tier pricing model should be used for those who don't need the extra services.

Didn't know what to expect in terms of cost but $44 for a spot on the ground seemed high to me. Surely this affect the affects the ability of low income folks to use a government facility which we already "own" as taxpayers. Oh well, still much cheaper than a Braves game.
Well, it appears based on the comments above it seems that RVer's have pretty much taken over many of the campgrounds.

Which explains why the cost of a campgsite was $20 for a regular site or $22 for a lake front site -- gotta recover the cost of the electricity used and the cost of the dump stations. Seems like a 2 tier pricing model should be used for those who don't need the extra services.

Didn't know what to expect in terms of cost but $44 for a spot on the ground seemed high to me. Surely this affect the affects the ability of low income folks to use a government facility which we already "own" as taxpayers. Oh well, still much cheaper than a Braves game.I almost exclusively camp at public campgrounds. I've been to a fair amount of campgrounds across states. More often than not, there is usually a difference in price between hookup sites and tent sites.

Also, in my experience, tent sites generally run about $15-$25 a night in a campground with hot showers. Occasionally less, like maybe $12.00. Plus rates change seasonally. Camping is still one of the cheapest vacations. Well, other than walking into the woods.:datz

The Solemates
10-26-2005, 11:50
we travel a lot together. 95% of the time, we save our money and just stay at campgrounds, etc. free campgrounds are even better. many times if we dont feel like paying for a campspot, we will just fold the seats down and sleep in the car (if driving...we fly a lot too). on these trips, its fun to pitch the tent and build a huge fire and have good food.

but with that premise, i will say that of the campgrounds we have stayed at, the abundance of RVs is amazing. rarely do we see any tents. and more often than not, the RVs are equipped with satellite dishes, TVs, radios, and more than I even have at my house. its ridiculous and makes me sick to my stomach almost. and to compound that, the people are many times loud and obnoxious, have the TV volume up high showing the latest football game, and cannot control their barking dogs.

anyways...thats whats so great about the AT. hopefully we will never see the day where the AT turns into the RV superhighway.

Peaks
10-26-2005, 16:23
rarely do we see any tents. and more often than not, the RVs are equipped with satellite dishes, TVs, radios, and more than I even have at my house. its ridiculous and makes me sick to my stomach almost. .

It seems that RV'ers while trying to get away from it all are in fact actually trying hard to take it all with them.

CynJ
10-26-2005, 22:55
A good majority of the rv's are just disgustingly decadent. The sales guy at the rv dealer looked at Mike and I like we had 6 heads when we asked him if it came in a "plain" model. :D

I just want something that is going to hold up well, be easy to keep clean, and keep my hubby from whining about his hip. I don't need cherry cabinets to do this. Or bay windows, or solid brass fixtures, or chandeliers, or Italian marble tiling, and the list goes on......

Red Hat
10-31-2005, 16:10
As both a backpacker and an RVer, thought I would add my two cents. CynJ and Sgt Rock hit it on the head. Our RV is our hotel on wheels. We can take our dogs with us anywhere and we don't have to worry if the bed is any good. Since my husband won't backpack or fly, this is our together travel time. Lots of times we prefer to use our RV when visiting friends and relatives.

In a campground, we do set up a satelite dish for my husband. I could do without, but he won't. We also like to sit outside around a fire ring and shoot the breeze with other campers.

As a youngster I was an avid camper. When we married my husband told me the only way he would camp was when Holiday Inn was there. This is our "Holiday Inn". Sometimes I miss backpacking when we are "camping", but I just take a hike and feel better.

Blister
11-08-2005, 14:05
I have to admit that I have walked into more campgrounds than I have driven. There have been times while walking through the parks I make it a point to look at all the liscence plates on all the RV's and SUV's. It passes the time for me when I am alone. Yes I am a geek. I do quietly admit that sometimes I have wished to be traveling in one of those hotels on wheels. It would be great to tool around in and do trail magic. In the meantime I will be happy with my Jeep.:dance

weary
11-08-2005, 15:45
When we married my husband told me the only way he would camp was when Holiday Inn was there. This is our "Holiday Inn". Sometimes I miss backpacking when we are "camping", but I just take a hike and feel better.
When we married my wife vowed she would "never lower myself to sleep on the ground."

But over the years I managed to convince (train?) her, sufficiently so that once she backpacked with me and three kids -- all under nine -- for three nights at Chimney POnd in order to climb with our brood to the summit of Katahdin.

She's still not a hiker, but we came back last month from a six week tour of the northern National Parks from Indianna to Olympic, sleeping most nights in a five pound, four-man backpacking tent.

Weary

LIhikers
11-08-2005, 16:50
In the summer of 2004 my wife and I hiked the AT in central PA. One afternoon we wound up at the Lickdale Campground about 3 miles south of Swatara Gap. They charged us $20 for a site to put up our tent. Later that evening another hiking couple came in and we asked the management if the second couple could share our site with us. They said sure, as long as the second couple paid $20 also. They didn't want to spend the money and headed back to the trail. In defense of the campground, I have to admitt that the bathrooms, showers, and laundry were in very good shape, and we did use them all.

RedneckRye
11-09-2005, 01:54
I love my truck. And I love my truck cap even more.
It has saved me so much money. The $300 I spent on it back in '93 has paid for itself over and over and over. Granted, the cap is now on top of it's second truck and it's color doesn't match and it is dented and the hinges squeak like hell when I open the back window, but I still love it. Road tripping, dead tired at 3am - pull into a roadside rest stop, church parking lot, or anywhere along a forest service road - park, and I am at home till the sun comes up. Not quite an RV, not quite a tent, but a nice place to spend the night.

Husko
11-09-2005, 02:12
The year before I started hiking/back packing I had a very bad experience with RV's.

I loaded up my bicycle, attached my saddlebags and hit the White Pine State trail north toward cadilac. One day and 60 miles later I arrived at the local camping ground I only remembered from childhood. It was full of high tooten RV's and tents where barely visible. I admit I was a bit disappointed but kept a good mood. Got me some firewood, payed money for it!!! (***).

So there I was, sitting at my lonely bicycle/tent camp and breaking out the ol' fire to sit and have a beer.

I had some trouble getting the fire started because I couldn't find enough small woods in the area to get a small hot fire to light the wood I purchase. I pored some of my white gas on fire to give it a kick start. Looks good. Big blaze, should get up and going in no time. I throw some paper in there. better. Five minutes later after I sat down the fire starts to go out and starts smoking. Putting more white gas on the fire is not a good idea so I start milking it and my "neighbor" comes stomping around the corner from her camp fire and yells "I HAVE WINDOWS YOU KNOW??!??!?!!" (She was complaining about the smoke of my fire going into her big tooten' RV). And she starts slamming them shut.

At this time I'm about fed up and I reply back in a rather harsh tone: "You have a big mouth.. That's what you have." Considering it seems like everyone had already settled down into their own communities it probably wasn't a good idea to reply so shortly.

It all turned out ok though. I got my fire going, I kept to myself as to not make any more of an issue of it and I slept like a baby.

Still thought, when I returned home I realised that I would have had a better experience popping up a tent at the mega 24 hour mall parking lot than I would have with this RV camp ground.

Makes me both sad and angry at the same time. This is not a negative post towards RV'ers, just my last expereince of camping in a public camp ground.... ever.....

MedicineMan
11-09-2005, 03:14
i've got a Tiger (Provan Industries) and like Sgt Rock said it is very much like having your own personal (as in when you pull down the bedspread you know you wont find vomit or a rubber) hotel room. It is great for basecamp in so many places like state parks, national parks, the the almost unknown army corp of engineers sites.
Most of the 'campers' i've met are retired and do as another poster suggested, hang out in one spot for 2 weeks then move on to another....the community social exchange is remiscient of neighborhoods of the 50s with everybody looking out for everyone else and a close eye paid to nare-do-wells. In Ontario this September I got several 'geesers' into a kayak to paddle in the Algonquin Provincial Park.
As Peak Oil comes closer this culture will rapidly die off and in some ways that's a shame for those communal reasons I mentioned above.
OH, funny story....I took my mom on the Ontario trip....she's a 78year old blue hair...when we got to Niagara I crashed hard after the long drive,,,,but was awoken in several hours by a God-aweful sound...in all the AT shelters I've been in I've never heard anyone snore like she did...for the next two weeks she slept in the RV and I slept in a hammock :)