PDA

View Full Version : what to look for in snowshoes



misterfloyd
12-20-2014, 09:24
Hello to all,

I know that many of you are busy preparing for the holidays. I hope you could help with information that I know nothing about.

On my last trip I encountered snow that I was not prepared for. Not being prepared for it, I still had a blast and realized how much I enjoyed being outside in it and hiking in it. It truley is a differnt world.

I was thinking about purchasing a pair of snowshoes. That being said I have not idea what to look for in them. what qualities features, other factors to look for. No knoledge Any information regarding this would be greatly appreciated. Where could a good pair be purchased?

Secondly, I live near Charlotte, NC. Where are some places close to me where I could put them to use on a three -four day trip? It doesn't have to be the AT.

I have slowly began aquiring some gear for winter hiking, this may take a while due to $$ Along with the gear, I need to aquire the knoledge for winter as well, I realize it is a different animal.

Any thoughts pertaining to any of the questions is greatly appreciated and very welcome.

Thank you for all your help.

Best Regards,
floyd

DavidNH
12-20-2014, 09:39
First, consider your weight. That will determine the size of the snowshoe. Most of us (over 250 pounds) will want a larger shoe to have more surface area to keep us afloat.

Next consider where you will be snowshoeing. Powdery snow? or the more often wet, icy granular snow? If wet, granular snow you won't sink in as much. If conditions are at all icy (not counting the pure ice that requires crampons) or even if still powdery but terrain is steep, you will want traction. That means metal teeth underneath.

I would look for a snowshoe also that I can strap on while wearing gloves. Few things are as frustrating as having to remove gloves when it is really cold to finagle those blasted straps.

Finally, the terrain. If climbing steep mountains you want a mountaineering snowshoe. If out on the flats and snow is deep and powdery then you could get away with a less aggressive but larger shoe.


All that said, for me my favorite snowshoes are MSR ascent snowshoes
(http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/ascent-snowshoes/category).

DavidNH
12-20-2014, 09:40
actually check this link.. more specific to msr acsents http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/ascent-snowshoes/lightning-ascent-snowshoes/product

Tipi Walter
12-20-2014, 09:41
I lived in Boone NC for 30 years and lived outside for most of that time either out of a backpack or in a ridgetop tipi with some significant snows and never used snowshoes. I sure could of used Kahtoola microspikes but never considered snowshoes. No backpacker I know who hikes in the mountains of NC or TN carries or uses snowshoes. We posthole to the bitter end. A pair of Sorel pac boots DID come in handy though.

This is not to say you can't find destinations close to Charlotte that won't have deep snow on occasion, but it is occasional and hit and miss. Of course, Mt Rogers comes to mind with its Crest Zone and a certain chance for snow. Then there is Shining Rock with its high peaks. Mt Mitchell also will get hit. Go west young man, like to the mountains in NC and TN.

There are many high mountains in western NC worth exploring, the higher the better. If there's a dusting in Charlotte or a dusting in Hickory you can be guaranteed there will be a foot or more at 5,000 or 6,000 feet. Pick the worst forecasted winter storm and start driving up into the mountains. See what happens.

And directly west there is Hendersonville and Robbinsville and the Nantahala NF. Go to Robbinsville and take hiway 143 to Huckleberry Knob at 5,600 feet or further to the state line at Beech Gap and start hiking north. You may see snow. If uncertain check out this---

http://www.fsvisimages.com/24.aspx?site=joki1

Marta
12-20-2014, 10:29
Ditto on the Micro-Spikes being a useful addition to winter hiking trips in the Carolinas. They are terrific on ice.

I didn't buy snowshoes until I moved to Montana. That said, if you are determined to buy some, the good ones are fairly expensive--$200+. Cheap ones are hard to keep straight on your feet and prone to breaking. MSR makes several nice high-end snowshoes.

Good snowshoes have:
Bindings which attach firmly to your boots and are easy to tighten/adjust while wearing mittens.
Excellent traction. The nice MSR snowshoes grip not only under the foot but around the edge of the snowshoe.
The smaller the snowshoe, the easier they are to use, but the less flotation they have in deep powder. A lot of snowshoes are little things made for walking on packed trails.
Some snowshoes have adjustments to the bindings to compensate for a crooked stride.
Some snowshoes have ascenders, which are bars you can flip up under your heels to make it easier to go up steep slopes. They are terrific!

Tipi Walter
12-20-2014, 11:04
Marta---If I am 160 lbs and my pack is 85 lbs, is there a snowshoe for me in this combined weight range??

misterfloyd
12-20-2014, 12:37
Hi folks,

I mentioned that I live near Charlotte as a point of refference. It was never my intention to use them here. I realized, and thought of parts of Natahala, Shining Rock, Mt. Mitchell, and perhaps Virginia, and perhaps Joyce Kilmer.

Has anyone done any shoeing in these areas, are they needed, in deep winter, or would a pair of microspikes be better.

Thank you for the information so far, keep them coming!!

Best,
Floyd

Connie
12-20-2014, 13:37
Scroll down for Sizing Chart link.
http://yukoncharlies.com/product/advanced-series-all-terrain-snowshoes/

I have MSR Ascents and MSR Evo, with attachment "tails".

But I live in Montana

Tipi Walter
12-20-2014, 14:01
Scroll down for Sizing Chart link.
http://yukoncharlies.com/product/advanced-series-all-terrain-snowshoes/

I have MSR Ascents and MSR Evo, with attachment "tails".

But I live in Montana

Thanks for the link. Now I know why we don't use snowshoes here in the Southeast and instead posthole our lives away---My size snowshoes comes in at nearly 5 lbs.

1azarus
12-20-2014, 15:28
I used, and enjoyed MSR denalis for years...recently happily switched to northern lites. Pay attention to the weight of the shoe... for both on your feet and on your back!

rocketsocks
12-20-2014, 16:59
On a different note. Consider carrying some tye-wraps for repairing snowshoes should they break. Light weight and strong they are a quick fix depending on what you actually have to do.

Another Kevin
12-20-2014, 17:38
I have MSR Lightning Ascent, for use here in the Northeast. I have the removable tails, because the snow here is usually so dense that I can get away with a smaller shoe, and I like having the manoeuvrability in our dense woods. And the lateral crampons are needed for our 'snowcrete,' once the trails are well packed. We never get the huge drifts of loose powder that the Rockies do, so we don't need a snowshoe that will float an elephant on soapsuds.

Our snow is most often wet and sloppy, which means that it ranges from soft heavy snow to hard ice, depending on temperature. People's postholes get frozen in place and turn into lumps and depressions that don't go away, and are likely to cause spills when they subsequently get hidden by fresh snowfall. So in our conditions a postholer doesn't start breaking the trail for you, he just leaves hazards behind. Different snow, different rules.

I'll remember that in the Southeast and Montana, things are different. Postholing here in the Northeast is not polite.

Cuacoatchoo
12-21-2014, 00:27
For lower states that dont' see much snow, REI snow shoe rentals seem like great options to try/experiment.

Every recommendation I've received included the ascendors which Marta recommended.

Based on snow shoe tracks I've followed, the smaller snow shoes still tend to sink like 8 inches or so. Which seems like a life saver in northern states with 3-5 feet but otherwise not that helpful for NC and Virginia where we tend to only get 1-2 feet at best. 8 inch sink means you're either trudging or high stepping which is energy intensive. The bigger snowshoes are what I'm interested in renting/trying.

For recommendations. You mentioned driving to Virginia. Most virginia snowshoers I've talked to go out to Dolly Sodds for snow shoeing.

Last word of caution. Keep in mind that for weekend hikers in the lower states, snow deep enough for snow shoeing also usually means the roads are terrible or closed. If you don't have a raised 4 wheel drive vehicle, logistics can be tricky in winter. Sometimes you'll find plowed roads, but no where to park your car because of the snow banks.

Marta
12-21-2014, 01:09
For lower states that dont' see much snow, REI snow shoe rentals seem like great options to try/experiment.

Every recommendation I've received included the ascendors which Marta recommended.

Based on snow shoe tracks I've followed, the smaller snow shoes still tend to sink like 8 inches or so. Which seems like a life saver in northern states with 3-5 feet but otherwise not that helpful for NC and Virginia where we tend to only get 1-2 feet at best. 8 inch sink means you're either trudging or high stepping which is energy intensive. The bigger snowshoes are what I'm interested in renting/trying.

For recommendations. You mentioned driving to Virginia. Most virginia snowshoers I've talked to go out to Dolly Sodds for snow shoeing.

Last word of caution. Keep in mind that for weekend hikers in the lower states, snow deep enough for snow shoeing also usually means the roads are terrible or closed. If you don't have a raised 4 wheel drive vehicle, logistics can be tricky in winter. Sometimes you'll find plowed roads, but no where to park your car because of the snow banks.

Really good point about the road onditions. When I cancelled trips in the Carolinas it was usually because of the driving conditions rather the the hiking conditions.

Also good point about snowshoes sinking in. Snowshoeing in deep snow is a lot of work. Especially if there is a crust. You don't float on the snow like a water strider does on a pond--you sink in several inches and then lift your feet up with pounds of snow on top of the snowshoe. Sometimes it seems as if the snowshoes aren't helping you a all...and then your pole sinks in four feet and you realize you'd be a lot worse off without the snowshoes.

Tipi--I think your pack might be heavy enough to need snowshoes of its own! Have you tried a sled?

TNhiker
12-21-2014, 01:18
I would love to see Tipi sledding down the Nutbuster with his pack in tow.......

:-?

Marta
12-21-2014, 01:22
Ther are little contraptions (sleds) called pulks for towing children and other loads on snow.

TNhiker
12-21-2014, 01:27
But there's also sarcasm......

Connie
12-21-2014, 03:27
Does anyone have experience with these?
http://kahtoola.com/products/snowshoes/

Often sold out, I haven't been able to have any experience with this.

They have grip under the shoe or boot.

Traveler
12-21-2014, 08:33
In my view, winter is the best time to be out in the forests. I have several pairs of snowshoes for different use and conditions. Weighing about 220, I need a fairly robust platform when bushwhacking off trail in the early months of winter when the snow is fairly loose and has not packed yet. For these conditions I use a 36" Tubbs Xpedition floating shoe. On trails that have been broken in to the point the treadway is packed down with high sides, I use MSR Denali's (I will probably get a pair of MSR Ascents later this year). The MSR snowshoes provide a lot of support on packed surfaces of this type and manage to stay inside the treadway sides without causing one shoe to be placed outside of the path.

As winter grows old, usually by February the melt/thaw cycle coupled with various precipitation will harden off snow to the point it compresses and can support more weight as opposed to early winter snow. When those conditions exist, I will use a pair of Tubbs Mountaineers that have a very high pitched toe that isn't prone to sliding under the snow crust and hanging up, making them good for off trail use and getting into areas that are difficult to access other times of the year.

As Another Kevin said (always a good read too), postholing in the Northeast is not polite and can give snowshoers some problems. Postholes here can be 2' to 4' or more deep. If there are several along a precarious section of trail, the packed treadway can give way and you will fall away with it. In lighter snow conditions with only a foot or two of snow pack postholing is not as much of an issue as it is when the snow pack is 3' or more. Snow levels in the southern mountains may be different, however up here it can be pretty heavy duty. There are some areas/parks that won't allow you into the trail system without snowshoes due to the trail damage postholers leave behind.

If you can find a retail outlet that will rent equipment, I would take advantage of that before you buy. Good shoes are expensive, averaging $250.00 for a pair. You can get cheaper shoes if you don't mind constantly fidgeting with straps, fit, boot slide, or making repairs in mid trip. In my view, people of modest means cannot afford cheap gear. If you are determined to get a pair, given where you are, I would recommend you look at the MSR Ascent or Denali shoes with the removable tails.

colorado_rob
12-21-2014, 11:05
I'm a huge fan of the MSR lightning ascents, been using them for about 10 years (I think I bought them when they first came out in early 2005, for our Denali expedition), we basically live on snowshoes in the CO high country all winter. The Denali's are decent too (had them before the lightnings). In any case, an absolute requirement (for us) is that the shoe have a good grip for when you're on harder packed snow, especially when side-hil traversing. The MSR's (both LA's and Denali's) are rigid and have toothed edges all around affording this grip, plus excellent crampons for digging in when climbing. Some like the little elevator flip up heel support on some shoes, as this relieves calf pressure when climbing. I find myself hardly ever using this feature though (Lightnings have it, the Denali's do not).

An easy to use boot-strap system is huge, and the MSR's shine here as well.

Yes, weight is extremely important too, but you're kinda screwed there no matter what.

Last item: customer service: if you hike hundreds of miles a year in your shoes like we do, things will inevitably wear out, I don't care how well made they are. A crampon on my lightnings broke some years ago, I contacted Sierra Designs, then said mail the broken crampon back, a week later a brand new pair of Lightnings showed up on my front porch. $250 (at the time) snow shoes, a brand new pair. Newer models are out now that might be better, but my LA's still work great.

My wife has the women's model, shorter, narrower, I actually have borrowed hers a couple times and used them when I wasn't too worried about the reduced flotation and enjoyed the weight savings. Almost wished I had my own pair of the women's version.

Tipi Walter
12-21-2014, 11:53
We'll never carry the extra weight of snowshoes here in the Southeast mountains of Georgia, TN and NC. They are just too heavy to hump for a whole trip and maybe not used every day. Our trails here go from 1,500 feet to 6,000 feet, on bare ground and in snow, and so when we're in the valleys and the low ground there is just no need for them.

Sure, once up on the ridge we could use them but we have microspikes and that's enough. Certainly no skis.

When I hit deep snow w/o snowshoes I use these techniques---
** Slog along the ridge in 2-3 feet of snow whereby a 2 mile hike takes me 4 hours, and then prepare a spot and camp. Call it a day. The next day I go another 2 miles and camp. In 4 days most of the deep snow should be gone.

** All ridge trails usually have side trails down the mountain and into a valley with 3,000 or 4,000 foot drops. If you find yourself on a ridge with deep snow and you can't hike very well, get to one of these sidetrails and bail down into the valley. 3 feet on the ridge, 3 inches in the valley.

Another big negatory for snowshoes in the Southeast is collapsed rhodo and brush and pines due to snow load. Here our trails are hallways inside green tunnels and once a good snow hits these hallways everything collapses over the trail severely limiting headroom and tunnel size. The chore then is to get very low, maybe crawl, to get thru this mess. Snowshoes would keep you way too high to negotiate these "snowdowns". What good are snowshoes when you're on your belly?

This was a major problem for backpackers in the Blizzard of '93, and why many backpackers had to be helicopter rescued. Sure, the snow was very deep and mvt was hellish, but the whole forest collapsed on itself and the trails looked like walls of brush. What's your option? Set up your tent and sit put and wait it out, maybe for 7 to 10 days (have extra food please), or whimper and weep and dial up 911 for search and rescue.

Connie
12-21-2014, 13:19
I have a $750 Granite Gear Pulk to sell. The "hull" is black. The built-in top cover is black edges and dark blue center at the long zipper. It has the outside straps to hold everything in place. I only used it on snow, never on rocks or dirt. I used my own build all fiberglass poles for my Akita, a dog. He pulled it. I no longer have my Akita. He also enjoyed ski-jorn on the snowed over dirt road around the lake . That is the harness I adapted. The metal and fiberglass poles and harness and connections that came with it new are still new.

Is that too distant off-topic?

This is a subject, pulk, that practically never comes up. It would have to be picked up. I don't know how to ship it.

Snowshoes:

Does anyone have experience with Katoola snowshoes? http://kahtoola.com/products/snowshoes/

Often sold out, I haven't been able to have any experience with this particular style of snowshoes.

They do have grip under the shoe or boot.

I think this type snowshoe may be the answer to postholing in that not deep snow.

misterfloyd
12-21-2014, 13:44
Thank you all for your input and your comments.

In living in NC you are correct about the Rhodo tunnels and it collapsing on itself. Spent a couple days with that.

I have never been in the mountains as much as I like during the winter. Having said that my favorite time to hike is fall, winter, and spring. Perhaps I need to get some microspikes. I just wanted to know if snowshoeing was common in NC, GA, TN, VA. As I mentioned it doesn't have to be on the AT. I was looking at the mountain to sea trail, Joyce kilmer, National forests in VA, GSMNP, or posibly WVA.

On the last trip in the snow I had Lowa Renegades that did well, with the help of using bread bags between my sock liner, and main sock. I guess I would be better off finding some good winter hiking boots as well.

I posted this because of the postholing on the last trip, wanted to know if there was a better way.

I do appreciate all of your input and help. I do value it.

Best,
Floyd

Another Kevin
12-21-2014, 23:01
As Another Kevin said (always a good read too), postholing in the Northeast is not polite and can give snowshoers some problems. Postholes here can be 2' to 4' or more deep. If there are several along a precarious section of trail, the packed treadway can give way and you will fall away with it. In lighter snow conditions with only a foot or two of snow pack postholing is not as much of an issue as it is when the snow pack is 3' or more. Snow levels in the southern mountains may be different, however up here it can be pretty heavy duty. There are some areas/parks that won't allow you into the trail system without snowshoes due to the trail damage postholers leave behind.

I went up Blackhead Mountain in the Catskills (3,960 feet) today, and lacerated a shin when I tripped over a cluster of postholes hidden under fresh drift. I did not appreciate the hikers that left the postholes behind. In fact, I may have referred to them with a phrase involving another sort of hole. Snowpack off the trail was deeper than the shaft of my ice axe is long when I probed it. Trail was very well compacted, sunk about a foot from the surrounding snow. Once we were far enough up the mountain that everyone had decided they needed snowshoes, it was very nice going, like running on a train track.

Another Kevin
12-21-2014, 23:38
Another big negatory for snowshoes in the Southeast is collapsed rhodo and brush and pines due to snow load. Here our trails are hallways inside green tunnels and once a good snow hits these hallways everything collapses over the trail severely limiting headroom and tunnel size. The chore then is to get very low, maybe crawl, to get thru this mess. Snowshoes would keep you way too high to negotiate these "snowdowns". What good are snowshoes when you're on your belly?

They sound really unpleasant. We don't get a lot of that here because the trees at elevation are well evolved to shed snow. What we do get are spruce traps. A cluster of 8-foot-tall spruces (mature trees in the subalpine region!) gets snowed over completely. The branches shed snow so well that there's a void under the snow surface right under the tree. You snowshoe over it, it collapses, you go in up to your neck in powder with your snowshoes tangled in tree branches. Deadly.

Cuacoatchoo
12-21-2014, 23:54
"I posted this because of the postholing on the last trip"

I've heard west coasters say you can help avoid post holing by hiking 4am to noon while the snow is still frozen/crusted over. I like to recommend to people to just be mindful of your footing until you know each step is solid and if you do start to post hole try to fall on your butt rather than forward so you don't hyper extend your knee.

For less than 6 inches of snow, or snow that's been trampled down, I've appreciated micro spikes. Without them I tend to slip 1-2 inches backward with each step due to lack of traction particularly on slopes. In deeper snow, I didn't have as much trouble with traction.

For footwear, I think professionals like andy skurka have recommended Vapor barrier layers (VBLs) in breathable shoes. For weekend trips I've been getting away without VBLs, by just bringing extra dry socks. My gortex boots do freeze at night from perspiration. I beat them against a tree in the morning to loosen them up before I put them on.

My local backpacking club mandates down booties in winter to help warm up and dry feet at night. If you get too cold/tired don't discount stopping early and just enjoying camp. We really had fun last year building a fire "platform" on top of 18 inches of snow last year.

Connie
12-21-2014, 23:56
That is the thing about snowshoes: I lived on a little hill. I saw the contour of that hill, every day. In Winter, had snow drifted over there. If I walk around, a bit, to look at the contour more will I fall in that if it is a drift? No kidding. It was where I live, and, I wouldn't trust it.

I would rather snowshoe on the snowed over dirt road around the lake. There is no mistake, where the drifts over the road are.

I like the booties for cross-country skiing, or, for bicycling in the rain, plus knee-high gaiters.

I lived on the west coast: we did our mountain ascents early. We roped. We probed, for our own safety.

The necessity of crevasse rescue is best avoided. No crevasse rescue is "simple" or "easy". I dressed much more warmly, had appropriate gloves and wearing extra clothing, I had my Jumars, rigged and ready.

Reckless "idiots" for mountain travel are to be avoided.

Cuacoatchoo
12-22-2014, 00:09
Connie's post jives with why people around me might go to dolly sodds to snowshoe . I*think its high altitude flatland so lower risk of deathtraps.

My copy of the mountaineering handbook recommends anyone hiking a ridgeline in snow should understand what a "Cornice" is and the associated risk.

. http://www.naturaldisasters.ednet.ns.ca/Projects/Avalanche/bja_files/image018.jpg

1azarus
12-22-2014, 07:39
"I posted this because of the postholing on the last trip"

I've heard west coasters say you can help avoid post holing by hiking 4am to noon while the snow is still frozen/crusted over.


this is really good advice if you actually need to cover any significant distance over snow, and you aren't just having fun hacking around with snowshoes on your feet and no long distance plans. the harder the snow the easier it is to walk -- to the point where, if frozen enough you can just wear your microspikes. walk a mile in your microspikes on a nicely crispy frozen snow surface, then walk another mile in your snow shoes when the snow softens. You'll be in love with the microspikes. ...and the woods are lovely on a clear winter's night.

Traveler
12-22-2014, 07:45
Connie's post jives with why people around me might go to dolly sodds to snowshoe . I*think its high altitude flatland so lower risk of deathtraps.

My copy of the mountaineering handbook recommends anyone hiking a ridgeline in snow should understand what a "Cornice" is and the associated risk.

. http://www.naturaldisasters.ednet.ns.ca/Projects/Avalanche/bja_files/image018.jpg

Excellent diagram, especially for people not familiar with cornices and other hazards of winter mountaineering.

peakbagger
12-22-2014, 07:53
Up in the whites in the late winter/early spring, the conditions can vary widely from morning to evening on a sunny day. One day we bare booted two mountains and then can down off the summit about 5 miles away from the trailhead. It was nice and warm. We very quickly started postholing so swapped to showshoes and within an hour, I started postholing with snowshoes. It took us 2 hours to go about mile back to the car. Postholing with snowshoes is rare but barebooting in the morning and snowshoes in the afternoon happens frequently in late winter and can be dangerous as many poorly equipped hikers who leave the shoes in the trunk can get stranded out in the woods as in deep snow postholing can be exhausting with pace as slow as 1/2 mile an hour.

Tipi Walter
12-22-2014, 09:49
Up in the whites in the late winter/early spring, the conditions can vary widely from morning to evening on a sunny day. One day we bare booted two mountains and then can down off the summit about 5 miles away from the trailhead. It was nice and warm. We very quickly started postholing so swapped to showshoes and within an hour, I started postholing with snowshoes. It took us 2 hours to go about mile back to the car. Postholing with snowshoes is rare but barebooting in the morning and snowshoes in the afternoon happens frequently in late winter and can be dangerous as many poorly equipped hikers who leave the shoes in the trunk can get stranded out in the woods as in deep snow postholing can be exhausting with pace as slow as 1/2 mile an hour.

There's a certain dementia which afflicts backpackers who posthole but I can't really put it into words. And there are variations of postholing which elicit temporary insanity with consequent babbling, some weeping, and a strong desire to curl up and die.

Postholing in 2 feet of snow up a steep mountain with a heavy winter pack is seriously retarded as you just lost the intricately switchbacked trail in the deep snow and so you have no choice but to hike straight up to the ridge to the known trail on top. As you ascend you stop to put your lungs back in your chest and see a hundred feet ahead up the slope. You know you have to be up there and pull this next hundred feet but to do so you'll have to grease down your body with narwhale oil and start snacking on dried goat rectums.

Every step sinks you down in a series of jarring depths---10 inch drop, more weight, another 10 inch drop, full weight, the final drop to the ground. Repeat endlessly, break a serious sweat, howl to your own personal god etc. Continue. A simple gain of a thousand feet takes all day.

Then you hit the ridge and Surprise Surprise---the trail follows the ridge spine where you find drifts 3+ feet, maybe 4, and you're suddenly in a swimming event. The only good thing about it is that falling hard on your butt won't cause any pain or injury cuz you're falling into a billion cotton balls. Forward progress slows to a crawl because the snow's too deep and you begin to search for your genitals which you had that morning when you started. They were ripped off somewhere between the climb and the ridge.

The main desire is to sit down next to a tree in the deep snow and dump the hated pack and curl up to get warm and Expire. No!!

"Wanna stop. Must camp. Keep moving."

You feel like Snake Plissken on the bridge to nowhere.

After 8 hours and 2 miles you reach a high camp with some flat spots but they're all under 2+ feet of snow. Now what?