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HonorOFeagle
10-24-2005, 15:09
How on EARTH do you guys get down to a 14 lbs pack? I’ve assumed all along that this is a weight WITH food?

I’m doing a 4 days section hike of the AT in TN (starting from Roan Mt. at 19 E and coming into Erwin) and it’s looking as if I’ll have a REALLY hard time getting my full pack under 40 lbs! The problem is I’m preparing for colder weather (perhaps OVER compensating even), and I’m hiking with a 6lb. synthetic mummy bag, warmer clothes, etc.

I’m starting to realize the advantage to Ultra-Lite when you start looking at these numbers:

Empty pack weight: 6.5 lbs.

Tent weight: 5 lbs. (cheap-o American Camper one man)

Sleeping bag (mummy): 6 lbs.

Beyond that, I think my biggest problem is going solo and adding the extras a hiking partner would carry instead of sharing the load with a stove AND purifier, tent, cook kit.

My food is 8.5 lbs, and I’m still debating if I knock off a half lb. of trail mix or minimize my lunch some (tortillas with peanut butter and honey instead of : 1 lb stick of sausage, .5 lb. cheese, ritz crackers).

My question is: HOW DO YOU DO IT?

What is a typical thru – hiker pack list with weights?

Thanks, and I apologize for asking such a frequent newbie question….

fiddlehead
10-24-2005, 15:16
Yeah, you may have to spend some money to get a light weight sleeping bag anyway. The rest you can make yourself: pack (or buy a lightweight one like go-lite breeze) tarp :make one out of sil-nylon or buy one already made. But those are the big 3 and you can save 12 or 13 lbs right there.
I'm sure you can find lots of articles and posts on here how to get the weight down. Personally, i list my gear list on my website: www.theunderwearguys.com under: "Lightweight Backpacking" section. It is 8 lbs summer weight and 11 lbs winter weight. Not so hard to do once you have the big 3 and always be searching for gear that's lighter than you already have; ie spoon, knife, cookpot, etc.
I don't skimp a whole lot on food, just resupply fairly often (every 3 days aprox) grits are light, noodles are light, ramen is light, get a dehydrator. check out this website, you'll find lots of ways.
good luck and have fun.

tlbj6142
10-24-2005, 15:28
Most of the time you see someone list their "pack weight" it doesn't include food, water or fuel. If food, fuel and water are included the term "total pack weight" or "wet pack weight" are typically used.

That, said, it is possible to do a 4 day trek and have a total pack weight of less than 14#, but it takes a bit of work and isn't for everyone.

Just about anyone who puts their mind to it can easily (and cheaply) get their pack weight between 10-13# and still be extremely "comfortable" and "safe" (not that those with less weight are uncomfortable or unsafe but many folks think so).

Here is a simple 3-season pack list (off the top of my head):

Pack: 2# (Ganite Gear Vapor Trail, ULA P-1, etc.)
Shelter: 2# (TarpTent, SMD Luna Solo, large tarp/bugnet/groundcloth, etc.)
Bag: 2# (20F-32F down bag, there are zillion bags in this category)
Pad: 1# (Prolite 3, or Prolite 4S)
First Aid/Misc (head lamp, compass, etc.): 1#
Kitchen: 1# (alcohol stove, pot, fuel bottle)
Other minor things that just add-up 1# (stuff sacks, spoon, tooth brush/paste, journal/pen, water bottles, etc.)
Camera: 1# (that's a heavy camera, but you get the idea)
Clothes in pack: 3# (rain gear, thermals, spare socks, etc.)

Total: 13#

With a bit of off season purchases and/or making your own stuff this could be made much lighter with little effort.

The Solemates
10-24-2005, 15:29
my winter weight is around 30lbs, with food and water for 3 days and I am not even considered ultralight. so, its easily doable, you are just going to have to spend a little cash. but like has been said, there are always cheap, lightweight alternatives too. just do a search on here for lightweight, etc. and you will find thousands of threads.

Footslogger
10-24-2005, 15:37
[QUOTE=HonorOFeagle]How on EARTH do you guys get down to a 14 lbs pack?
=========================================
You can probably count on one hand the number of hikers actually carrying a 14lb pack that includes their food and water at any given point in time. And, most of those hikers would not be equipped to deal with any "out of the ordinary" situation. Only exception I would take to that statement would be in the dead of summer where clothing/sleeping bag requirements are minimal. Some of these ultralighters hike so fast and do so many miles a day that they can re-supply more frequenly and therefore can afford to carry less food.

There's only so low you can go and still preserve basic comforts and safety. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done ...just that the rare few who get there are in the extreme minority.

The lightest pack I've ever carried with 4 days of food and my starting supply of water in the morning was right at 20 lbs and that's with a pack that weighs 2 lbs empty.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 15:39
How on EARTH do you guys get down to a 14 lbs pack? I’ve assumed all along that this is a weight WITH food?

It can be. But most people talk pack weights when comparing loads in dry weight - no food, water, or fuel.



I’m doing a 4 days section hike of the AT in TN (starting from Roan Mt. at 19 E and coming into Erwin) and it’s looking as if I’ll have a REALLY hard time getting my full pack under 40 lbs! The problem is I’m preparing for colder weather (perhaps OVER compensating even), and I’m hiking with a 6lb. synthetic mummy bag, warmer clothes, etc.

That is a darn heavy bag


I’m starting to realize the advantage to Ultra-Lite when you start looking at these numbers:

Empty pack weight: 6.5 lbs.

Tent weight: 5 lbs. (cheap-o American Camper one man)

Sleeping bag (mummy): 6 lbs.

Part of doing this would invovle looking for a pack, shelter, and bag around 2 pounds each. That would make your "big three" 6 pounds, and yours is currently 17.5 pounds. So you can save 11.5 pounds right there. Of course it would take looking at some other areas to get pack weight down. Why not post your list with weights here and let people make suggestions?


Beyond that, I think my biggest problem is going solo and adding the extras a hiking partner would carry instead of sharing the load with a stove AND purifier, tent, cook kit.
You are right. But you could have a 1 ounce stove, 1 ounce of iodine, and a 4 ounce pot - so less than 1/2 pound for all that for a solo backpacker.


My food is 8.5 lbs, and I’m still debating if I knock off a half lb. of trail mix or minimize my lunch some (tortillas with peanut butter and honey instead of : 1 lb stick of sausage, .5 lb. cheese, ritz crackers). [quote]

Well for a four day hike, 8.5 pounds of food is good. Don't sweat the food too much. If you only have 8.5 pounds of food and a 40 pound pack, then you have 32 pounds of other stuff to look at first.
[quote]
My question is: HOW DO YOU DO IT?

What is a typical thru – hiker pack list with weights?

Thanks, and I apologize for asking such a frequent newbie question….
Check out the article section. Here is an article I am working on that may help you: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10687

SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 15:42
Here is another thread that can show you how to put together a kit on less than $300. Of course your needs and sources may vary from some of the contributions - but it could give you an idea on how to make it happen without going broke.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5594&highlight=%24300+challenge

Marta
10-24-2005, 15:44
It's partly spending the cash to replace heavy things with light, but it's also leaving things out that you don't need. To take an easy example...there are lots of ways to carry water. The ultralightest don't bring anything but just drink at the water sources, without treating. Next lightest: carry a one-liter plastic soda bottle for water, pills or drops for treatment. Next lightest: the soda bottle plus something else, either another soda bottle or a Nalgene cantene or some sort of sack for hauling and storing camp water. And then you can get heavier and heavier by adding water bladders and thicker bottles and bringing pumps and filters and carrying several liters of water with you at all times.

BTW, I'm somewhere in the middle of the bunch. My pack last week with six days worth of food, one liter of water, and clothes and sleeping stuff for temps down to freezing was 24.5 lbs.

tlbj6142
10-24-2005, 15:57
BTW, I'm somewhere in the middle of the bunch. My pack last week with six days worth of food, one liter of water, and clothes and sleeping stuff for temps down to freezing was 24.5 lbs.That is very respectible. 25# total pack weight for 6-days. That's definately "lightweight" considering food, water and fuel are probably 11-13# of that weight.

Back on subject....

There isn't a "governing body" for such things, but I've always considered (3-season)....

Stupid: > 20# pack weight
Middle weight: > 15# pack weight
Lightweight: > 10# pack weight
Ultra lightweight: > 5# pack weight
SUL/XUL (tm) (Stupid? Is this a circle?:D): < 5# pack weight

The key is to not make it a public competition ("My weight is smaller than yours!!!!"). Sure you can push yourself to make due with less, but only do so when you are ready. And don't feel like a failure if you to add something back to your list. Take baby steps.

Marta
10-24-2005, 16:11
I figure it's always a work in progress. Every trip is different in what kind of weather you'll expect and how much water you should be able to find. I have different goals on different trips in terms of big (for me) mileage vs. laying in the hammock and reading, or sleeping, or sitting around and chatting with other people. Some people take trips where food is the focus and they bring all sorts of goodies to cook and eat.

The poster can probably cut out about a third of his weight by replacing the sleeping bag and tent with lighter models. Then a ruthless culling of extra stuff (camp shoes and whatnot) will cut out more weight. Then he can replace the pack with something lighter.

It's a process, not an outcome. I was at Gooch Mtn. Shelter once with two ex Army Rangers. They had enormous packs, weighing over 60 lbs. each. They asked me about mine and I pointed out that I was only carrying a liter of water, while they were each carrying two full quart cantenes plus full Camelbacks. I suggested emptying either the cantenes or the Camelbacks for the next day's hike. They lost five pounds off each of their pack weights instantly and were ecstatically happy.

HonorOFeagle
10-24-2005, 16:30
Thanks guys (detailed response was much appreciated too T!) I figured that had to be a number that was sans food, wate, etc.! I wasn't really considering replacing my backpack anytime soon since it's a nice Kelty internal frame, but the tent is certainly under scrutiny now... One of these days I'll have to buy my own damn water purifier too! :datz

Almost There
10-24-2005, 16:32
HYOH! Find a weight that is comfortable for you. Don't worry about what your pack weight is. Sure lighter is better, because it's easier on your body. I just recently got my big three way down. Here is an idea of cost. I don't believe in the ultralite gear yet due to construction and materials used. In my opinion they don't hold up over the long run.

Backpack: Mystery Ranch Deep Trance, $219(found it cheaper on ebay, used for a week before I bought it for $181), 4lbs5oz.

Sleeping Bag: Marmot Helium 15 degrees, $359(found it online in a yahoo store for $308 brand new), 1lb13oz

Tent: MSR Hubba, $219+$35 for footprint(got both for $200 from someone who had bought it, but needed money before he had ever used it.), 3lb7oz packed.

Total big three weight: 9lbs 9oz.

Total Retail Price: $832

Total Price I paid hunting around online after educating myself: $689, saved $143, and everything but the backpack had never been used!

Point is educate yourself, read some trailjournals, talk to some section hikers and thruhikers, learn what they used, and you will get your weight down. There is no reason why my weight should ever go above 30lbs again, except maybe when I hike the Wilderness in Maine next summer. In the summer I should be between 20 and 25lbs. I have carried up to 75lbs in the past, so I never want to be that high again. You'll figure it out, since picking up backpacking again this year I have learned so much by trial and error on what works for me. That is the key figure out for "yourself" what works for you, but make sure to educate yourself as you do this. Good luck, it's awesome out there!

Big Dawg
10-24-2005, 23:06
Honor of Eagle,,, how was the furniture market? I bet you're ready to head for the hills. The market is fun, but crazy :jump. When ya heading out? I hope ya have a great time!!! I'm taking my family (wife, sis & her kids) on their 1st backpacking trip this coming weekend,, on the AT @ Max Patch. My next section hike will be northbound, starting at Sam's Gap, near Erwin/TN,, so please report back & let me know how the hike was,,,,,, I'll probably be doing this section in a month or so.

ENJOY!!! :clap

flyfisher
10-25-2005, 11:02
How on EARTH do you guys get down to a 14 lbs pack? I’ve assumed all along that this is a weight WITH food?

I’m doing a 4 days section hike of the AT in TN (starting from Roan Mt. at 19 E and coming into Erwin) and it’s looking as if I’ll have a REALLY hard time getting my full pack under 40 lbs! The problem is I’m preparing for colder weather (perhaps OVER compensating even), and I’m hiking with a 6lb. synthetic mummy bag, warmer clothes, etc.

I’m starting to realize the advantage to Ultra-Lite when you start looking at these numbers:

Empty pack weight: 6.5 lbs.

Tent weight: 5 lbs. (cheap-o American Camper one man)

Sleeping bag (mummy): 6 lbs.


My question is: HOW DO YOU DO IT?

What is a typical thru – hiker pack list with weights?

Thanks, and I apologize for asking such a frequent newbie question….
Well,

The pack, the tent, and the bag are too heavy. That is for starters. I'd guess you may also be carrying a heavy stove and cook gear. You may also have too much clothing.

For planned 20 degree temperatures in Virginia in April, I had a 19 pound pack with 3 days of food and fuel and enough water for the morning. It was 23 degrees the night I started.

I had a 9 oz pack (Fanatic Fringe Thompson Peak),
two sleeping quilts, each of which was a little over a pound, and one was also my winter insulation (coat),
A 2-1/2 pound tarp and insulated hammock.

I was using a cook kit that weighed about 10 ounces complete with pot, cozie, stove, spoon, pot lifter, and fire starter. Fuel was about 6 ounces additional.

This is not really ultralight, just lightweight. It can be done with some thinking and experiments. I carry about 1.5 pounds of food a day for section hikes.

Seeker
10-25-2005, 17:52
i agree with most of what i've seen already, so i'll just belabor these points:

-big three will save you a bunch of weight.
-to some extent, money can save weight. but making your own can save that same money.
-durability of lighter gear is a tradeoff... but i'd rather buy a new $80 pack every 5 years than a $250 one every 15...
-there's no excuse for ME to not hammock. tarp is lighter. LA has bugs and rain. i don't see that i have a real choice. tent isn't an option for me either. but that's my opinion.
-don't skimp on food.
-relook your clothes. most people are carrying way too much. experience will help you here. as will a warm climate!
-everything should have as many uses as it can. a single purpose item you only use once every couple days is a prime candidate for elimination.

post your gear list. we'll be glad to comment. no one's right or wrong. you have to hike your own hike. but we'll give you our opinions.

Wolf - 23000
10-25-2005, 21:54
[QUOTE=HonorOFeagle]How on EARTH do you guys get down to a 14 lbs pack?
=========================================
You can probably count on one hand the number of hikers actually carrying a 14lb pack that includes their food and water at any given point in time. And, most of those hikers would not be equipped to deal with any "out of the ordinary" situation. Only exception I would take to that statement would be in the dead of summer where clothing/sleeping bag requirements are minimal. Some of these ultralighters hike so fast and do so many miles a day that they can re-supply more frequenly and therefore can afford to carry less food.

There's only so low you can go and still preserve basic comforts and safety. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done ...just that the rare few who get there are in the extreme minority.

The lightest pack I've ever carried with 4 days of food and my starting supply of water in the morning was right at 20 lbs and that's with a pack that weighs 2 lbs empty.

'Slogger
Slogger,

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

I think before you make statements what an ultra-light hiking “would not be equipped to deal with any “out of the ordinary” situation”, I think you should first know what you are talking about. I for one carry under 14 pounds including 5 days food and water for 3 seasonal hiking. During my travel of over several thousands of miles, I’ve been snowed on, crossed snowfields, been hit with several hurricanes, hit by a camper, hit by a tree and have made it though without assistance fine.

<o:p> </o:p>

Please don’t place the hikers that travel ultra-light with those that are just unprepared and irresponsible. A hiker can be carrying 60 pounds and be unprepared for “out of ordinary” situations.

<o:p> </o:p>

Wolf

betic4lyf
10-25-2005, 22:54
look into kelty light year bags they are cheap and good. i would prob get one if i had any money. right now i have a ems boreal 20deg. 3.5lbs.

Footslogger
10-25-2005, 23:13
[QUOTE=Wolf - 23000]Please don’t place the hikers that travel ultra-light with those that are just unprepared and irresponsible. A hiker can be carrying 60 pounds and be unprepared for “out of ordinary” situations.
================================
Excellent point, and yes, pack weight in and of itself does not imply preparedness or the lack thereof ...but I submit that those carrying packs weighing 14 lbs including food and water are still in the extreme minority. I guess that is the point I was trying to make in response to the initial post in the thread. Sorry to have made what may have seemed to be an invalid generalization.

'Slogger

mingo
10-26-2005, 12:36
mr. lone wolf,

how do you get your pack down to 14 pounds with five days of food, etc.? i'm a fairly lightweight hiker my own self but my pack only gets down into the mid-teens during the hottest summer months when i'm basically not carrying any extra clothes. of course, i've got to have some whiskey in there at all times. be that as it may, i would appreciate any tips on reducing weight furthermore. thanks in advance

Wolf - 23000
10-26-2005, 17:46
Lone Wolf, Is that the guy that walked several hundred miles with a rock in his backpack and didn't even know it? :eek:

Wolf

Nean
10-27-2005, 12:23
Wolf, my camera weighs more than you pack! You are one of a kind my friend!! Your pack is off the radar- even to ultralighters. I've never seen anyone go as light as you but I seem to recall that it wasn't always that way. Your comfort zone is extraordinary and realized over time. I'd think a less experienced hiker could get in trouble with your weight, starting out.

I've said it before but I'd rather carry 35 in my 5 pound pack than 25 in a ultra pack. I could never hike as light as you Wolf.

billdnc
10-27-2005, 18:07
My son Wanderer just completed his SOBO thru hike this past Monday. 106 days from Katahdin to Springer. His big four was: Golite Dawn 14 oz, MH Phantom, 22 oz, cut down ridgerest 7oz, HH rainfly plus mylar space blanket 9 oz. His kitchen was MSR Ti Kettle, alky "zenstove", windshield, 8oz plastic full fuel bottle, lexan fork - all about 14 oz. The rest was a light rain jacket, led flashligh, disp. camera and other misc. His pack without food was about 7 lbs. With food up to about 15 pounds. He wore a MH kilt, t-shirt and Chaco sandals.

Nean
10-28-2005, 00:50
You didn't mention if he had a good time.