View Full Version : Hey hikers, are you a member of the ATC?
SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 18:00
I'm making this one for Sly.
As a Whiteblaze.net member you undoubtedly have a keen interest in the Appalachian Trail but are you a member of the organization that's dedicated to the conservation of the 2175 mile footpath? If not, why not?
SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 18:26
No problem Sly
Jack Tarlin
10-24-2005, 18:35
The single best thing that any individual can do to help support the Appalachian Trail is to join the ATC, period.
In addition to joining the parent organization, I also urge folks to join or otherwise support one of the local Trail clubs that take care of particular stretches of the Trail. Many of the smaller local Trail clubs, especially the smaller ones down south, have few active members, and many of them are getting older. In many cases, there are fewer and fewer people to do Trail work, and fewer and fewer people to actively support the clubs.
For more info on local Trail clubs, go to www.atconf.org; then click on "Volunteer" section; then click on "Trail Clubs" where it gives websites and contact information for every one of the local clubs.
If just five per cent of the folks on Whiteblaze get involved with a local Trail club, that's a lot of people, and the ammount of good that can be accomplished is significant.
SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 18:44
Ditto to what Jack said. Being a member makes you a constituency to a cause. A membership, besides supporting the trail, lets politicians that may make a decision that will impact the trail know that there are more than one or two environmental wackos out there worrying about things.
And if you work where they do CFC, the number for the ATC is 2303. Give to it.
Good point Jack on also helping the local trail clubs.
Although it's for 2005, here's another link about the seasonal trail crews. In '98 I took a week off and worked in Vermont with the Long Trail Patrol on the relo near Sherborne Pass. Hard work but richly rewarding.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.733147/k.34E6/Trail_Crews.htm
Ironically, since I'm not a purist, I'll probably never hike that section of trail and take "old AT" straight to the Inn at the Long Trail.
I hope you enjoyed it. ;)
Almost There
10-24-2005, 19:11
I agree, if you enjoy and hike the trail, join, it's the least we can do to help maintain that which we all have come to love so much!
Jack Tarlin
10-24-2005, 19:12
CFC: Combined Federal Campaign
see http://www.opm.gov/cfc/
SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 19:59
What Jack said. CFC is a way to make a direct donation or donate by payroll deduction. I have contributed by CFC longer than I had a membership. They sent me my first membership one year because I had contributed a couple of hundred that year and they sent me a "introductoy" membership. I sort of slapped my forehead at that point because even though I had been donating, I had neglected joining. I sometimes forget to renew when my membership runs out, but I always end up getting back to it.
SGT Rock
10-24-2005, 20:04
Oh, and before I forget to mention this again, some anonymous hiker out there renewed my membership for me in 2003 while I was in Iraq. I have never found out who that was -but thanks again!
I just got bit by the "AT Bug" and promptly joined the ATC. I think it was only fair that I support the group who made this trail available for me...
And I'm not even planning on using it until 2007!! (I'll be taking a few "practice hikes" between now and then in GA/TN...)
I actually just sent my dues in yesterday! :D
And I have almost convinced my husband to help do some trail maint. but even if he wants to be a nudge - I am watching for postings in my area to go and help out without him :)
I joined a couple of years ago, in 2003 I think.... Best thing I could've ever done. Laurie Potteiger was a tremendous source of information for me during the planning stages, and I owe her a lot of credit for her help.
They have some pretty good merchandise too. Back in September when I was in H.F., I left about $50 lighter than when I'd arrived... It's just as easy to leave money there as it is at Home Depot.
By the way: I just got a letter from Dave Starzell regarding the North Shore Road...... What's the skinny on that?
They have some pretty good merchandise too. Back in September when I was in H.F., I left about $50 lighter than when I'd arrived... It's just as easy to leave money there as it is at Home Depot.
Yea, and 2006ers should know that the ATC usually has a huge guidebook and map sale for its members, at end of each year. I'm thinking that it runs between Thanksgiving and Christmass.
Edit: One leg and I think alike!
I see that some are waiting until the year of ther thru hike. Why wait until then?
Although I've been an ATC member for the last few years, and was actually a member of Piedmont Appalachian Trail Hikers (PATH) for one year, I'm ashamed to say that I never went to a PATH meeting or did any trail maintenance. My wife and I both work and she isn't into the A.T. My son is 6-years old and has several extra-curricular activities going on. There is always something else to do, right? Maybe I need to set some priorities concerning my support of the A.T. The trail has given so much to me, maybe it's about time to give a little back. What is one weekend a month or ever few months compared to the enjoyment I derive from the trail? It would also be an important lesson for my son.
BlackCloud
10-25-2005, 07:12
The single best thing that any individual can do to help support the Appalachian Trail is to join the ATC, period.
Like politics, the AT is always local. Now that the ATC is a Conservancy, look for them to go in other directions which I have previously addressed. The AT exists b/c of the little people in the local clubs, small and large, that keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time, literally.
I'll never join the ATC!
Without the ATC, there would be no AT, period, end of story. They do a remarkable job and I say God bless'm!
shades of blue
10-25-2005, 08:14
I'm an ATC member, 2003 to present (when I started my section hiking). The ATC has been a great help and they have done a lot to protect the AT. I will admit that I am a little worried over their name change and revamping of everything from their website to their logo. I worry that they are going to be more about show, than action. I know that change can be good, and I am hopeful, but a little worried also. This isn't to say that I think joining the ATC is a bad thing. I think being a member of the trail organization is good, and they do a lot of protection work for the AT....I just hope they don't look so much at the yuppies that they forget about the little guy...kinda like the AMC.
walkin' wally
10-25-2005, 08:42
The membership in the Maine club is definitly getting older and we could use some new blood. There are a lot of interesting things to do out on the trail. Members work is much appreciated by hikers. We have trail sections open for maintenance by members. We have the Maine Trail Crew which is part of the Maine ATC and also help from the Maine Conservation Corp. Part of Americorp.
There are lots of opprtunties for trail work jobs big and small.
Join the ATC and find out more about what is going on with the Appalachian Trail. :sun
By the way: I just got a letter from Dave Starzell regarding the North Shore Road...... What's the skinny on that?
Well, if you got the last issue of ATC Journeys magazine, there was an article on the North Shore Road. It is considered one of the major threats to the AT at present. It is proposed to run along the north shore of Fontana Lake in Great Smokies National Park. The road was part of the original deal made when Fontana Dam was built, but the road has yet to be built.
I don't have a problem with the changes. I think "Conservancy" says alot more than "Conference" about the ATC mission. Also, I think they are trying to increase awareness of the A.T. among the general public. Le'ts face it, besides people who are actually hikers and have hiked some of the trail, there is much ignorance about it. The trail isn't just our little secret. It is a National Scenic Trail and is part of the National Park system. If the ATC can make the non-hiking public aware of the trails existance and encourage those folks to go out from in front of their T.Vs and computers and out onto the trail, maybe those same folks will embrace and support the A.T. like so many here on Whiteblaze have. The trail may become more crowded and thay will have to be dealt with that, but hey, it's not our private possesion. It's a National treasure.
SGT Rock
10-26-2005, 07:53
I personally feel it is just a PR name change like when Coke changed it's formula to that nasty one, then had to change it back and rename what was always Coke to Classic Coke even though the "New Coke" formula was not being used anymore.
Same stuff, different name. Just makes a stupid point of contention for folks to bicker about. I would have left the name alone personally.
They could have left the name but amended their mission statement. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other
I think a conservancy effort is great. There are a lot things that directly affect the AT that aren't on the AT. Think about water supplies, roads, power lines, etc. By having the ATC watchdog over this stuff it will not only keep the hiker community informed but can also act as a voice for the AT.
Big Dawg
10-26-2005, 08:35
I was an ATC member a few years back when I started section hiking the AT in 2000. Since then, finances have gone south,, & saving for an adoption (that will be complete in the next 4-6 months) has been the priority. This has caused me to drop my membership w/ ATC for the past few years. I've felt bad about not contributing to the organization that is the backbone of the trail I love. Because all of the finances have come together for the adoption, I've recently earmarked some money to rejoin ATC,, & keep it that way. I'm too pationate about the AT to NOT be apart of the ATC. OK, I've gotten that off my chest. I was actually embarrassed to mark "no" on the poll.
Lone Wolf
10-26-2005, 08:40
I joined last year for the first time. I wouldn't join for years because of the way the ATC handled or should I say mishandled the 1990 double murder just outside Duncannon.
Wolf--
You don't ned to go into the details here if you don't want, but what troubled you so-- broadly speaking?
Rick
Lone Wolf
10-26-2005, 09:15
They were of no help to the PA State Police who knew nothing of how the AT "community" worked. Plus the new ATC HQ in Boiling Springs was having thier opening at the same time as the murders and it was causing bad press. Bottom line it took 3 friends of mine to travel to PA, hunt the murderer down and turn him in. The PA State Police were very greatful for the help from "civilians" and awarded them a $5000 check which they donated to a kids camp if I remember correctly.
L. Wolf - I heard also that the ATC even went to the point of refunding the guys membership fees and kicking them out of the ATC because they went against ATC directions wrt helping in the murder investigation - was that true to your knowledge?
I personally feel it is just a PR name change like when Coke changed it's formula to that nasty one, then had to change it back and rename what was always Coke to Classic Coke even though the "New Coke" formula was not being used anymore. Same stuff, different name. Just makes a stupid point of contention for folks to bicker about. I would have left the name alone personally.
Actually, the name change is the least of the changes. It is a distinctly different organizational makeup and structure. It remains to be seen if it can broaden its membership.
Here's how the New England director, JT Horn, described the changes in the summer edition of the MATC newsletter:
"The new name came about as part of a large reorganization initiated by the volunteer Board of Managers. The Board recognized that the organization was entering a new era since land acquisition of a protected trail corridor was nearly complete.
Moving forward, stewardship of the federally protected trail corridor and its myriad natural and cultural resources will require new approaches, additional partners, and more resources. The new name Appalachian Trail Conservancy denotes that stewardship of the Trail footpath and surrounding environment will be the major organizational focus.
The old name, “Appalachian Trail Conference,” did not capture public attention and did not convey the organization’s role as caretaker and advocate for the A.T. Market research indicated that “Conference” was confusing with many people believing that it was a meeting and not a membership trail stewardship organization.
Part of the restructuring includes a change in Board structure. The old Board of Managers voted itself out of existence in favor of a new 15-member Board of Directors. The old Board of Managers had a dual focus of trying to manage both the Trail and the organization. Under the new arrangement, the Board of Directors will focus on the management of the organization, including articulating policies and goals to assure strength in carrying out ATC’s mission.
The new board brings considerable expertise and connections in business, government, the nonprofit sector and the hiking community that should help the organization develop new partnerships and new resources. A new volunteer Stewardship Council will focus on management of the Trail and A.T. lands. The Stewardship Council will oversee the field programs and provide policy expertise and guidance in stewarding ATC’s volunteer-based conservation programs.
The new Board was elected at the Tennessee meeting, and includes Bill Plouffe of Freeport, an attorney who is a founding member of the Maine A.T. Land Trust and Jim Ditzel, an avid outdoorsman and a senior executive at the L.L. Bean Corporation.
MATC members may be wondering how these changes will affect the club or the Trail in Maine? At first, there won’t be many visible changes other than the change in ATC’s name.
However, one area where MATC members may start to notice a change is in the level of service that the ATC Regional Office staff can provide to MATC. Part of the reorganization was to restructure the staff to bring more efficient decision making at the regional level.
Historically, most policy and budgetary decisions affecting any of the clubs or regions were made in Harpers Ferry by the Headquarters staff or Board of Managers. Moving forward, the ATC regional offices will have more discretion in program management and budget administration.
In New England this means that J.T. Horn and the rest of the staff will be able to make quicker decisions that suit local needs in Maine. There will also be an emphasis on raising money for projects and programs at the regional level instead of just in Harpers Ferry.
This change should also allow ATC to do a better job assisting MATC and the Maine A.T. Land Trust in fundraising for projects of shared interest. In the last few months J.T. Horn has already worked with the Maine A.T. Land Trust on several grant applications that would develop a staff presence advocating for land conservation around the A.T. in Maine.
Despite all of the changes at ATC, several things will not be changing on the Trail in Maine. The cooperative management system of having each club act and work autonomously will continue.
MATC still will be asked to manage our own programs and set our own priorities for our section of Trail. There will still be an MATC presence in regional and Trail-wide decision making. In order to assure that vital links with clubs are not lost, each ATC region has set up a Regional Partnership Committee.
In the New England Region this group has already had two meetings and will probably be meeting quarterly to facilitate two-way communication between clubs and ATC. MATC President Don Stack and Whitecap Assistant Overseer, Bruce Grant currently serve on the New England Partnership Committee.
And finally, the Trail itself will not change. It will still be a primitive footpath, maintained by volunteers, offering world class opportunities for long distance hiking.
Those of us who have connections to the new Appalachian Trail Conservancy hope that you are as excited as we are about these changes. As existing MATC members, we thank you for your support of the Appalachian Trail in Maine. We also hope that you will be willing to consider joining ATC as we embark on this next chapter. Our shared work is exciting and compelling and we think you’ll enjoy being part of the larger A.T. community.
shades of blue
10-26-2005, 10:57
That sounds interesting Weary. I can get used to the name change...even the logo change...if they are able to carry through with what seems to be their mandate. I guess in these days of priorities other than the National Park systems, we will need more good will in a larger area of the private section.
As a hiker, the ATC helped me prepare and answered many questions about relocations and other parts of the trail. White Blaze has helped with gear advice, people who have been there and done that to talk to. I felt like the people I was in contact with were hiker oriented. That's not to say they were perfect, but in my dealings with them, they weren't worried about how much money I had, they wanted me to be a good steward of the trail and to enjoy myself. I hope that the reorganization of the ATC will hold on to that facet of it's old being. If it does, then perhaps this will be what is needed to help maintain the trail for decades to come.
SGT Rock
10-26-2005, 11:14
Actually, the name change is the least of the changes. It is a distinctly different organizational makeup and structure. It remains to be seen if it can broaden its membership.
Whatever. IBM didn't change to IBC when they started going to predominantly computer based equipment. They still support the Appalachian Trail whether you call them a conservancy or a conference. Changing from Conference to Conservancy doesn't change much other than the logo and changes the continuity of an organization that was around for about 70 years.
Just seems silly. PR stuff. Like New Coke.
And finally, the Trail itself will not change. It will still be a primitive footpath, maintained by volunteers, offering world class opportunities for long distance hiking.
Speaking of enlargening their member base....
The most recent issues of ATN had a promiment article about horseback riding of all things. The editorial comment was about horseback riding, too.
Any talk about opening up more of the AT for horseback riding? Seemed odd to have an organization dedicated to hiking devote the main article in their magazine to horseback riding...
Speaking of enlargening their member base....
Any talk about opening up more of the AT for horseback riding? Seemed odd to have an organization dedicated to hiking devote the main article in their magazine to horseback riding...
Not that I've heard of. For now I'm going to assume it's just growing pains. The new crew has held important jobs in the past, but they tend to lack trail and ATC experience and knowledge.
I'm still recovering from a six week camping trip of the American and Canadian National Parks. I'll try to find the magazine so I can read the article. I'll send them a comment if it seems useful.
Weary
SGT Rock
10-26-2005, 15:48
Not that I've heard of. For now I'm going to assume it's just growing pains. The new crew has held important jobs in the past, but they tend to lack trail and ATC experience and knowledge.
Sounds sort of odd for a crew that is now in the forefront of trail issues. :confused:
I guess it is like hiring a guy with experience running a horse ranch to be in charge of FEMA. :rolleyes:
shades of blue
10-26-2005, 16:17
:
I guess it is like hiring a guy with experience running a horse ranch to be in charge of FEMA. :rolleyes:
Rock...we know THAT would never happen.... :banana
Like politics, the AT is always local. Now that the ATC is a Conservancy, look for them to go in other directions which I have previously addressed. The AT exists b/c of the little people in the local clubs, small and large, that keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time, literally.
I'll never join the ATC!
By not becoming a member, you've lost your voice. You've no right to complain.
I don't much care for the name change or the new look, but I'll continue paying my membership dues... This way, I won't feel so bad when I do complain, as at least I'll have paid.
But it's your God-given right not to join the ATC...... Go ahead, ride on the coat tails of others.
Well, if you got the last issue of ATC Journeys magazine, there was an article on the North Shore Road. It is considered one of the major threats to the AT at present. It is proposed to run along the north shore of Fontana Lake in Great Smokies National Park. The road was part of the original deal made when Fontana Dam was built, but the road has yet to be built.
Thanks for pointing that out. I knew it was about time for the mag to arrive, so I asked the wife about it. She said "Oh yeah, it's on your desk under your pile of Mt.Dew bottles." Sure enough, there it was.......
Like politics, the AT is always local. Now that the ATC is a Conservancy, look for them to go in other directions which I have previously addressed. The AT exists b/c of the little people in the local clubs, small and large, that keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time, literally. I'll never join the ATC!
Well, Black Cloud, the "local clubs, large and small" exist and have much of the money needed to "keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time" as a result of the dues from the ATC membership and the organizations influence with the National Park Service.
Dues income for Maine Appalachian Trail Club totals about $9,000 a year. Our annual budget is about $150,000. Without ATC we would not be able to do the essential things needed to "keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time."
The reorganization of ATC is partly an attempt to develop the resources to somehow convince people like Black Cloud about the facts of AT life.
Weary
betic4lyf
10-26-2005, 20:01
i'm also an AMC member. they do a lot of the work where i hike usually (nh)
SGT Rock
10-26-2005, 20:45
By not becoming a member, you've lost your voice. You've no right to complain.
I don't much care for the name change or the new look, but I'll continue paying my membership dues... This way, I won't feel so bad when I do complain, as at least I'll have paid.
But it's your God-given right not to join the ATC...... Go ahead, ride on the coat tails of others.
You forgot to mention that you can also complain by canceling you membership - basically voting with your feet. Or in your case - your foot.
Sorry. I couldn't resist. :bse
I personally feel it is just a PR name change like when Coke changed it's formula to that nasty one, then had to change it back and rename what was always Coke to Classic Coke even though the "New Coke" formula was not being used anymore.
Same stuff, different name. Just makes a stupid point of contention for folks to bicker about. I would have left the name alone personally.
Nah, this was a marketing move. They want to expand the membership and Appalachian Trail Conference just confused anyone who heard it for the first time. Appalachian Trail Conservancy is easier to understand for folks new to the trail. It's not a major change but it's an important one if we're going to grow the ATC.
You forgot to mention that you can also complain by canceling you membership - basically voting with your feet. Or in your case - your foot.
Sorry. I couldn't resist. :bse
Yeeeeeoouch.... Talk about hitting below the belt......
SGT Rock
10-26-2005, 23:19
Nah, this was a marketing move. They want to expand the membership and Appalachian Trail Conference just confused anyone who heard it for the first time. Appalachian Trail Conservancy is easier to understand for folks new to the trail. It's not a major change but it's an important one if we're going to grow the ATC.
Didn't confuse me or others the first time we heard Appalachian Trail Conference. The fact is they could have called it Appalachian Trail anything and the first two words got the meaning. But you are right - PR. And actually, that sort of bothers me. What is next?
Anyway. Horse packing articles. Now gear reviews. Loss of some of the old standards people liked like the Bureau of Funny Walks. I can't say I like it even for all the fancy AOL inspired slickness.
smokymtnsteve
10-26-2005, 23:23
no more address labels please. ;)
I was a littel confused by the horse article as well. Really, what does the Virginia Highlands Horse Trail have to do with the A.T.? Maybe they would be open to suggestions for changes/improvements. To be fair, I did like some of the changes in the magazine.
Didn't confuse me or others the first time we heard Appalachian Trail Conference. The fact is they could have called it Appalachian Trail anything and the first two words got the meaning. But you are right - PR. And actually, that sort of bothers me. What is next?
Anyway. Horse packing articles. Now gear reviews. Loss of some of the old standards people liked like the Bureau of Funny Walks. I can't say I like it even for all the fancy AOL inspired slickness.
Lone Wolf
10-27-2005, 07:09
The ATC is kissing Cindy Ross's butt maybe?
The ATC is kissing Cindy Ross's butt maybe?
For those of you not in the know, Cindy Ross is a avid backpacker. She has thru-hiked, as wrote a book about her experiences. She is one of the original group that started ALDHA and is still active in the organization. She has gone on to do the CDT, among other trails, with her family. She is able to make a living by writing about her travels. Her articles have appeared not only in the ATC Journey's magazine, but also Adventure Cycling, AMC Outdoors, and I'm sure several others.
Hats off to Cindy.
BlackCloud
10-27-2005, 09:15
Well, Black Cloud, the "local clubs, large and small" exist and have much of the money needed to "keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time" as a result of the dues from the ATC membership and the organizations influence with the National Park Service.
Dues income for Maine Appalachian Trail Club totals about $9,000 a year. Our annual budget is about $150,000. Without ATC we would not be able to do the essential things needed to "keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time."
The reorganization of ATC is partly an attempt to develop the resources to somehow convince people like Black Cloud about the facts of AT life.
WearyI know nothing about the MATC, so I won't pretend to. As far as the PATC is concerned, I know that the ATC has virtually nothing to do w/ the club, not that PATC is in need. (Most in the AT community would be shocked to know of PATC's finance's - and might learn a few lessons too).
I do however see very strong signs that this name change is not just a PR gimmic. Coke didn't change its name for fun, it did it for $. $ for the trail, or $ for the employees is my question? I live outside D.C., site of the HQ and/or largest office of virtually every lobby organization in the U.S. (Even GreenPeace's HQ is here). I have a good understanding of how many of these non-profits, small and large, operate.
I said it before & I'll say it again. Watch the salaries of the employees of ATC jump by as much as 100%, now that ATC is in the Conservancy community.
Lone Wolf
10-27-2005, 09:18
I joined for 1 year. I'm not renewing.
BlackCloud
10-27-2005, 09:19
I joined last year for the first time. I wouldn't join for years because of the way the ATC handled or should I say mishandled the 1990 double murder just outside Duncannon.
We need to hear more on this...............
Anyway. Horse packing articles. Now gear reviews. Loss of some of the old standards people liked like the Bureau of Funny Walks. I can't say I like it even for all the fancy AOL inspired slickness.
And my favorite section is gone: The reader submitted stories. Feels less like a community and more like a magazine trying to enlarge the member best. C'est la vie.
Also, to address another message, yes Cindy Ross has contributed a lot to our little community. But, my comment is not about Cindy Ross. What myself (and others) are scratching their head about is :Why is the main feature about horse packing in a magazine dedicated to a trail where horses are not allowed (except for the Smokies and teeny, tiny part in Shenandoah)? What's next..an article about ATVers and ATV trails near the AT? :)
I'm making this one for Sly.
As a Whiteblaze.net member you undoubtedly have a keen interest in the Appalachian Trail but are you a member of the organization that's dedicated to the conservation of the 2175 mile footpath? If not, why not?
I've been an ATC member since 1999.
pay dues annually...dont agree with ATC "politics"
but, in the "BIGGER PICTURE"...
they are the folks that are on the frontlines when it comes to preserving the
heritage of the A.T.
Kerosene
12-01-2005, 11:26
I became a lifetime member when I once again became serious about completing the entire trail in sections about 5 years ago. I've contributed to several targeted ATC campaigns also (but they still keep asking for more!).
Once I finish in 2013, I'll join a trail crew in lieu of my annual section hike so I can give back a little more.
I´m a member of ATC, NYNJTC and PATC, but will only re-new the first two. PATC was just so I could get a discount on a cabin lol.
PATC was just so I could get a discount on a cabin lol.
Been there. I joined and rented the Pocosin Cabin during the resumption of my thru-hike. It's a good one (a little dark inside) right off the trail in the SNP.
http://www.patc.net/images/cab_pocosin.jpg
One could easily camp outside under the roof with the fireplace if it wasn't being rented. ;)
QHShowoman
12-01-2005, 13:09
I've contributed to several targeted ATC campaigns also (but they still keep asking for more!).
Well, that's the beauty of direct response fundraising. Your best prospects are those who just gave.
QHShowoman
12-01-2005, 13:26
Most in the AT community would be shocked to know of PATC's finance's - and might learn a few lessons too
PATC's revenue for 2004 totaled about $500K ... that is NOTHING.
Their 2004 net assets were a little over $7 million ... which may seem like a lot, but when you consider that almost $4 million of it is the land/cabins they own and rent out for a mere pittance, and almost $3 million is tied up in securities, there's not much liquid income to go around.
Anyone can request a copy of a non-profit's annual report, as well as their IRS form 990. In fact, you can even download PATC's from Guidestar.org ...
I've been an ATC member since 1999.
pay dues annually...dont agree with ATC "politics"
but, in the "BIGGER PICTURE"...
they are the folks that are on the frontlines when it comes to preserving the
heritage of the A.T.
Indeed. Only organizations of one are without differences of opinion or direction. On the whole, the ATC provides a service that all of us here use. So what if we don't agree with every policy or action? I feel obligated to belong to the ATC, because I use the facilities that they support. If I don't like something I see, then I have the option to speak up and be heard. If you are part of something, be part of it. Don't sit on the sidelines. These same tenets hold true to our involvement in any organization including governments, industry groups, volunteer organizations, etc. Make a difference - join in and contribute financially, if you are able, and with your voice and time.
Jack Tarlin
12-01-2005, 17:56
I know all sorts of people that work for the ATC.
A few of them are paid, tho not many. The permanent staff is very small, and the salaries are not exorbitant.
Most of these folks are volunteers. They staff the office in Harpers Ferry; they volunteer in Regional offices; they spend much of their time maintaining and repairing the Trail instead of hiking it.
Note to some of the folks complaining about the ATC: When I see YOU start contributing as much to the Trail as the staff and volunteers of this organization do, then I'll give more credence to your complaints.
I've mellowed over the years. My first experience at the ATC was not good at all. Then the murders and Brain King at ALDHA really turned my stomach. LW may think different, but thats water under the bridge and there is no need IMO to discuss it on this forum. Laurie Potteiger is enough reason to join these days. Sorry, classic Jack:o , I've not joined lately but if I had a lot of money I would. Heck, I'd even join the PCTA- even though some of the people who work there are terrible human beings, IMO. These days I accept the fact that there are some good causes that don't necessarily have straight shooters running them. It has taken me many years and many knots on this hard head to be able to somewhat accept this; but sometimes you have to take the bad with/for the good.
Lone Wolf
12-01-2005, 20:23
I've mellowed over the years. My first experience at the ATC was not good at all. Then the murders and Brain King at ALDHA really turned my stomach. LW may think different, but thats water under the bridge and there is no need IMO to discuss it on this forum. Laurie Potteiger is enough reason to join these days. Sorry, classic Jack:o , I've not joined lately but if I had a lot of money I would. Heck, I'd even join the PCTA- even though some of the people who work there are terrible human beings, IMO. These days I accept the fact that there are some good causes that don't necessarily have straight shooters running them. It has taken me many years and many knots on this hard head to be able to somewhat accept this; but sometimes you have to take the bad with/for the good.
I don't think different Nean. The water is flowing. I ain't a member but I do stuff locally on the trail. Laurie is one great lady. Nobody could follow Ms. Cashin like Laurie.
Jack Tarlin
12-01-2005, 20:31
Wolf is 100% right about Laurie, who runs the ATC information desk. And I'm sorry Nean had a beef with Brian King, who worked for the Conference for almost 20 years. I know him to be a wonderful, thoughtful, very bright, very kind gentleman; I can't think of ANYONE who cares more about the Trail than Brian, or who has worked harder on the Trail's behalf.
Wolf is 100% right about Laurie, who runs the ATC information desk. And I'm sorry Nean had a beef with Brian King, who worked for the Conference for almost 20 years. I know him to be a wonderful, thoughtful, very bright, very kind gentleman; I can't think of ANYONE who cares more about the Trail than Brian, or who has worked harder on the Trail's behalf.
I pretty much agree Jack. But somehow the old staff lacked the ability to bring to ATC the kind of membership and support needed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping the new regime can do better. Initial efforts strike me as being considerably less than what is needed.
But I remain hopeful.
Weary
I voted: NO!
I feel, and shall forever, or at least untill those involved apologize to him face to face, the ATC truely, and malicously mistreated Earl Shaffer!
I suppose, perhaps, maybe, they do good toward the AT.
Yet, I have no intention of supporting them, ever!
Doctari.
I feel, and shall forever, or at least untill those involved apologize to him face to face, the ATC truely, and malicously mistreated Earl Shaffer!Doctari.
Doctari. You need toi explain what you are talking about. I spent quite a few hours with Earl in his final days. I never heard him suggest any such thing. ATC certainly questioned Earl when he first claimed a thru hike -- as they should have.
But he served as secretary of ATC for years, donated his Walking with Spring to ATC and ATC is the only one currently selling the poems that Earl was so proud of.
Weary
Jack Tarlin
12-01-2005, 21:45
Weary--
I think Doctari is referring to the Conference's behavior several years ago, when a group of former Boy Scouts made the remarkable (and in my view, insufficiently supported) claim that they'd hiked thru-hiked the Trail before Earl Shaffer.
At the time this claim was made, it was believed by many that the "evidence" presented at the time was incomplete, and it was further felt by some that this overly enthusiastic rush to embrace the Boy Scout claim was dis-respectful to Earl, who's thru-hike was impeccably well-documented.
Cookerhiker
12-01-2005, 21:47
Like politics, the AT is always local. Now that the ATC is a Conservancy, look for them to go in other directions which I have previously addressed. The AT exists b/c of the little people in the local clubs, small and large, that keep the thing alive, maintained, and safe, one little mile at a time, literally.
I'll never join the ATC!
Yes, the "little people in the local clubs.." are the ones who maintain the Trail - in fact, I (belatedly after many years) just became one with the PATC. It was about time I gave back to the Trail.
But I've been a member of the ATC for 27 years. I disagree with your assertion about its role and direction. Without the ATC and their cooperative work with the Park Service, the Trail would not exist as it does now. There would likely be hundreds of miles more of road walks.
Less you think the ATC staff has some cush positions, think again. After reading about Dave Startzell's grilling by the reactionary anti-Trail House Interior Subcomittee two issues ago, I visited the ATC and talked to Dave. I also read materials from the Subcomittee's hearing including the submission by the property rights people in which they denigrated the 1978 Trails Act and urged Congress to repeal it and take the feds out of Trail business. Make no mistake - there is hostility to the Trail's very existence. This kind of political sentiment requires a strong response by an organization speaking for the entire Trail community - local clubs with their "little people" can't do it alone.
Speaking of which, those of you who decry the ATC's "politics" - what beef do you have? Do you want to see the North Shore Rd or the proposed interstate in Georgia or massive ski facilities on Saddleback? Do you want clean air, clean water, healthy forest ecosystems? Would you rather see the blight of real estate development throuout the Trail corridor? The threats to the Trail are real and like most things in America these days, money-driven. If you eschew the ATC's politics, are you embracing the politics of developers and polluters?
No, the ATC isn't perfect and I don't agree with everything that goes on. Yes I have some concerns about the future direction. One small perhaps symbolic example: I miss the "Reflections" series in the new magazine. But as Tinman eloquently put it, "only organizations of one are without differences of opinion or direction." A strong ATC is our best hope for the Trail's survival.
Weary--
I think Doctari is referring to the Conference's behavior several years ago, when a group of former Boy Scouts made the remarkable (and in my view, insufficiently supported) claim that they'd hiked thru-hiked the Trail before Earl Shaffer.
At the time this claim was made, it was believed by many that the "evidence" presented at the time was incomplete, and it was further felt by some that this overly enthusiastic rush to embrace the Boy Scout claim was dis-respectful to Earl, who's thru-hike was impeccably well-documented.
I thought it was basically dumb editing of the ATN magazine -- something akin to the new regime chosing a horse feature for one of their first efforts.
Weary
Yes, I am a member and just sent them a check for their Year End appeal - though I could scarcely afford it from an economic standpoint. As I a hiker, and trail enthusiast, I can't afford not to support the ATC. So I do, and I did.
I thought it was basically dumb editing of the ATN magazine -- something akin to the new regime chosing a horse feature for one of their first efforts.
Weary
Weary, Jack, Doctari & Whomever:
IMO, y'all should branch off RIGHT NOW and create a separate thread if you want to discuss the Boy Scout issue. That will ruin this thread faster than a rant about Warren Doyle.
Jack Tarlin
12-01-2005, 22:08
I really DON'T want to discuss it....I was merely answering Weary's question.
But I suspect you're right.
Yes, I am a member and just sent them a check for their Year End appeal - though I could scarcely afford it from an economic standpoint. As I a hiker, and trail enthusiast, I can't afford not to support the ATC. So I do, and I did.
I used to send ATC my dues annually, and an occasional check. But since they made me an honorary member last summer, I'll have to send them a larger than usual donation. The old way was probably cheaper.
I have the same problem with AMC. They made me a non-paying lifetime member 30 years ago, so I don't feel comfortable billing them for the cost I incur for the newsletter I put out for the Maine Chapter -- printer cartridges, several wide carriage printers over the years, programs, 100-mile round trips to the mailing house, photo quality 11 by 17 paper, 40-mile round trips to the printer. It adds up.
Weary
They made me a non-paying lifetime member 30 years ago, so I don't feel comfortable billing them for the cost I incur for the newsletter I put out for the Maine Chapter -- printer cartridges, several wide carriage printers over the years, programs, 100-mile round trips to the mailing house, photo quality 11 by 17 paper, 40-mile round trips to the printer. It adds up.
Weary
Weary, you just gave a PERFECT example of how someone can volunteer for a trail organization without having to slog miles on a trail with tools in hand, although I'm aware that you maintain a section on White Top too. There are lots of ways to volunteer and pitch-in other than maintaining or building trail. Writing articles, stuffing envelopes, taking photos, teaching classes, leading hikes, fundraising, and on & on.
Thanks Weary.
Pringles
12-01-2005, 22:29
I'm glad you asked! I'm excited, because I just made my final payment and am now a lifetime member.
Beth
665 miles
Weary--
I think Doctari is referring to the Conference's behavior several years ago, when a group of former Boy Scouts made the remarkable (and in my view, insufficiently supported) claim that they'd hiked thru-hiked the Trail before Earl Shaffer.
At the time this claim was made, it was believed by many that the "evidence" presented at the time was incomplete, and it was further felt by some that this overly enthusiastic rush to embrace the Boy Scout claim was dis-respectful to Earl, who's thru-hike was impeccably well-documented.
Yes! Thanks jack for explaining for me. I was at work, & pressed for time last night.
IMHO "Overly enthusiastic" is an understatement. My impression of the article was that the ATC "Powers that be" were doing cartwheels & "Happy dances" at the prospect of (my words): de-throning Earl. At least that is how the writing seemed to me, and I have seen nothing since to discount that impression.
Doctari.
Yes! Thanks jack for explaining for me. I was at work, & pressed for time last night.
IMHO "Overly enthusiastic" is an understatement. My impression of the article was that the ATC "Powers that be" were doing cartwheels & "Happy dances" at the prospect of (my words): de-throning Earl. At least that is how the writing seemed to me, and I have seen nothing since to discount that impression. Doctari.
I can't cite any references, but my reading of ATN over the years since the scout story came out has convinced me that ATC was backing away from its first story, which really was just incompetent journalism. Anyway I spent several hours with Earl at The Cabin in Maine, and at a Ruck in Pennsylvania. He said nothing that suggested he would support Doctari's boycott of ATC. He was not a person who held grudges.
I'm sure he'd be pleased today that ATC continues to carry and promote his book of poems, that otherwise has long since disappeared from book stores.
Weary
I'm glad you asked! I'm excited, because I just made my final payment and am now a lifetime member.
Beth
665 miles
Congratulations!
Basicly the ATC just applied todays policy of ANYONE who writes in gets recognition. It was really a sad case. The old boy who made the claim couldn't even remember the names of the guys he hiked with, etc.,etc. I know trail historian Ed Talone believes in the scouts. I believe in Myron Avery. Does the ATC still credit the scouts before Earl?
Lone Wolf
12-02-2005, 12:00
Earl loved Gramma Gatewood.
Yep, LW is right. Very few know this but they had a love child together, little Warren they called him, 'till one day a pack of coyotes out scavenging for leftovers drug the little boy into the woods, never to be seen again.........?
Yep, LW is right. Very few know this but they had a love child together, little Warren they called him.........
Is that how Hump Mountain got its name?
Earl loved Gramma Gatewood.
Not sure about the love but he did call her a pantywaist. I think it had to do with her knocking on too many doors to get out of the rain.
Off topic I know but it is my thread :)
So you're saying hikers that don't see eye to eye has happened before?
So you're saying hikers that don't see eye to eye has happened before?
Hikers disagreeing? No, never happened. ;)