View Full Version : No love for ADK?
gregpphoto
01-07-2015, 22:36
Just curious as to why theres no formal section for at least the Northville Placid Trail like there is for the Long Trail, PCT, etc.
As always, bananas. :banana
Another Kevin
01-07-2015, 23:38
I suspect that we NPT hikers are just not quite numerous enough. There are certainly a few of us around the site: me, 12trysomething, russb (Duct Tape), Algae (I met him about a mile from the Lake Placid end), I know there are others but I'd need to go back through old emails to remember who.
I aborted a SOBO thru-hike in Long Lake in October when I got sick. When I felt better, I didn't have enough vacation left to finish, so I leapfrogged forward to Piseco and finished the other end. I'll do the Piseco-Long Lake section this coming season, $DEITY willing.
We at least got the trail listed over at trailjournals.com! (Journal of my failed attempt: http://trailjournals.com/AnotherKevin)
Speaking for myself at least, my sense has been that the ratio of road walking to trail walking is high enough that I just haven't looked into it much. I understand that some folks recommend a push-cart of a roller pack for this trail, which suggests to me a very high ratio of at least some sort of road walking to trail walking.
Fyi, there is very little road walking. Almost none if one doesnt start/end at the traditional train stations and uses the common trailheads.
I think the length not being hundreds or thousands of miles is the main culprit.
It is a beautiful trail. I kind of like how little it seems to be used as the solitude is one of its charms. If it ever became a major social trail, it would lose something IMO.
That said, I do recommend it. It may not be long, or have significant climbs, but it is a rugged wilderness trail with all the charm thatgoes along with that type of trail.
I hope to hike it again this summer.
And I hope to hike it this September!
data on NPT road walks:
From Benson Rd TH to Averyville Rd TH, the road walks are as follows:
3.1 miles from Rt 8 to Haskells Rd (paved rd, a reroute is planned which would cut this in half)
2.25 miles along the Cedar River Rd (dirt Rd in the Moose river Plains Wild Forest)
0.71 miles from Rt28N to Tarbell Rd (paved rd)
so 6 miles out of 120 is road, half of which is a dirt road. The rest of the trail would be very difficult to use a cart or roller pack, very difficult.
Starchild
01-08-2015, 09:45
The NPT was from my understanding, well much of it was, the old road bed from Northville to Lake Placid. So mit's going to be flatter and sections of it push cart capable (the southern half seemed to be in sections)
That said it is a very nice trail and a great trail to get away from it all.
I would love to see someone try the NPT with a push cart. I might even hike behind them for the entertainment value.
gregpphoto
01-08-2015, 12:10
data on NPT road walks:
From Benson Rd TH to Averyville Rd TH, the road walks are as follows:
3.1 miles from Rt 8 to Haskells Rd (paved rd, a reroute is planned which would cut this in half)
2.25 miles along the Cedar River Rd (dirt Rd in the Moose river Plains Wild Forest)
0.71 miles from Rt28N to Tarbell Rd (paved rd)
so 6 miles out of 120 is road, half of which is a dirt road. The rest of the trail would be very difficult to use a cart or roller pack, very difficult.
I know the ADK trail crew started a 6 or 8 mile stretch of replacing the roadwalk from Benson to Northville with a regular trail. I think they got most of it cut this past season but it wont open for another year or two.
I know the ADK trail crew started a 6 or 8 mile stretch of replacing the roadwalk from Benson to Northville with a regular trail. I think they got most of it cut this past season but it wont open for another year or two.
Yes. That will shorten the currently optional roadwalk from northville to benson.
One of the issues is a creek crossing which appears to require significant bridge work.
Another Kevin
01-08-2015, 15:46
The NPT was from my understanding, well much of it was, the old road bed from Northville to Lake Placid. So mit's going to be flatter and sections of it push cart capable (the southern half seemed to be in sections)
That said it is a very nice trail and a great trail to get away from it all.
Where do people get these ideas?
A lot of the trail follows routes that were once logging roads. Many of those were never graded well enough for a wheeled vehicle. The logs were hauled on sledges in the wintertime. They had to be graded just well enough to pull the logs with a two-foot (or greater) snowpack filling in the rough spots.
There were some haul roads that were graded for wagons. After a century of disuse, they're grown to trees, and washed out, and taken over by beavers. Once in a great while you get the incongruous sight of an old bridge that looks as if it could still support a heavy wagon or a fire truck
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5597/14919563634_182366c667.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14919563634/)
More often there will be an old bridge that looks something like this, and you realize that the trail crosses the river anyway.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/14920137133_918777d501.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14920137133/)
After either, the trail goes right back to looking like a wilderness trail.
The sections in the guidebook are for slicing up the map. Essentiallly, all thru-hikers do it in three sections (sometimes with a break to visit Blue Mountain Lake): Benson-Piseco, Piseco-Long Lake, Long Lake-Lake Placid.
The 26.4-mile Benson-Piseco section has a 1-mile side trail to the old trailhead, about 6.6 miles from Benson, and the Whitehouse trailhead (8 miles up a gnarly dirt road from the village of Wells) is 6.1 miles from Piseco. Piseco itself has a three-mile roadwalk.
The Piseco-Long Lake section is about 56 miles. There is the possibility of being met by car at Wakely Dam (about mile 30, another drive up a long dirt road), or NY 28 (about mile 43, a major state highway, but no really good resupply options). A lot of hikers hike out on Cascade Pond Trail or hitch out on 28N to Blue Mountain Lake to go to the Adirondack Museum, but Blue Mountain Lake village hasn't very much in the way of services.
The final Long Lake-Lake Placid section is about 39 miles with absolutely no road access - indeed, no exit routes shorter than the trail unless someone were to meet you by boat at Plumley's Landing. Yes, there were once haul roads and fire truck trails in there, but they're grown to trees, washed out, and taken over by beavers. It's one of the remotest trails in the Northeast. (Arguably, it's more remote than the Hundred-Mile Wilderness, which has drivable logging roads at intervals.)
If you love looking down from grand mountain vistas, ... the NPT isn't for you. If you're content with getting lovely views of the mountains from humble ponds and marshes, you might just love its scenery.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3929/15353613519_c18234f65a.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/15353613519/)
Rodney Point (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/15353613519/) by ke9tv (https://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr
Another Kevin
01-08-2015, 16:37
One of the issues is a creek crossing which appears to require significant bridge work.
Right, and ADK has kind of painted itself into a corner on this one. It's already on record as supporting the proposal to reclassify that parcel of the Shaker Mountain Wild Forest as a newly-designated West Stony Creel Wilderness. But the proposed bridge, APA says, is inconsistent with the Wilderness Act requirement that a wilderness area present an appearance of being "untrammelled by the hand of man." Instead, either a bridge would have to be built of natural materials (a suspension bridge is nonconforming), or the trail would have to rock-hop or ford the West Stony Creek. DEC is clearly on the side of the trail, since DEC put a lot of effort into building it. APA and DEC don't always see eye to eye.
In short: It's complicated.
Right, and ADK has kind of painted itself into a corner on this one. It's already on record as supporting the proposal to reclassify that parcel of the Shaker Mountain Wild Forest as a newly-designated West Stony Creel Wilderness. But the proposed bridge, APA says, is inconsistent with the Wilderness Act requirement that a wilderness area present an appearance of being "untrammelled by the hand of man." Instead, either a bridge would have to be built of natural materials (a suspension bridge is nonconforming), or the trail would have to rock-hop or ford the West Stony Creek. DEC is clearly on the side of the trail, since DEC put a lot of effort into building it. APA and DEC don't always see eye to eye.
In short: It's complicated.
True. The easiest solution is to build the bridge prior to a classification change and thus grandfather it in.
I hope to get into that area this spring/summer to poke around. If you are interested in joining me, I would welcome the company.
I think part of the reason might be that the ADK's are already well covered by other forums, while some of the "other trails" on here aren't.
Another Kevin
01-08-2015, 19:10
russb, 1azarus - If the stars align, I'd be delighted to tag along with either of you! I still want to go back and do the middle of the trail (Piseco to Long Lake) where I leapfrogged, and exploring the flagged and constructed but unblazed section over near Northville sounds like fun, too, and I'm pretty confident with herd paths and whacks. I had fun with Placid-Long Lake and Piseco-Benson. I was trying it SOBO. People tell me that the blazing is better NOBO.
Only thing is that if either of you asks me along, you have to be tolerant of a slowpoke. I can't take it at 1azarus's pace. I know, I've been hiking with him a couple of times. On last fall's hike, I pulled one 14-mile day (Ouluska to Kelly, I seem to recall), but that was trying to make up some lost time. I didn't plan a day longer than 12. Life just never lets me get out long enough to "get my trail legs". I go almost anywhere, but I take forever to get there.
12trysomething
01-08-2015, 19:32
I find it to be a non-interesting trail that one could bring a scooter on without much trouble. I wouldn't recommend it. ;)
12trysomething
01-08-2015, 19:36
I think part of the reason might be that the ADK's are already well covered by other forums, while some of the "other trails" on here aren't.
That makes sense.
russb, 1azarus - If the stars align, I'd be delighted to tag along with either of you! I still want to go back and do the middle of the trail (Piseco to Long Lake) where I leapfrogged, and exploring the flagged and constructed but unblazed section over near Northville sounds like fun, too, and I'm pretty confident with herd paths and whacks. I had fun with Placid-Long Lake and Piseco-Benson. I was trying it SOBO. People tell me that the blazing is better NOBO.
Only thing is that if either of you asks me along, you have to be tolerant of a slowpoke. I can't take it at 1azarus's pace. I know, I've been hiking with him a couple of times. On last fall's hike, I pulled one 14-mile day (Ouluska to Kelly, I seem to recall), but that was trying to make up some lost time. I didn't plan a day longer than 12. Life just never lets me get out long enough to "get my trail legs". I go almost anywhere, but I take forever to get there.
I do all types of hiking. Some are slow and poking around.
Toolshed
01-08-2015, 20:49
Nice Write-up Another Kevin. I don't really want to see any bridges built, though. It's not that I am on the Forever Wild kick, but moreso that I like the challenge of crossing the streams and flows without the bridge.... I do think there is good coverage on other forums that deal specifically with ADK and the NE (VFTT, and ADKForums). I've done the trail a few times both as sections and thru - the Cold River Section was always my favorite... In fact, I used to maintain a couple of LTs on Ward Brook Truck Trail near Duck Hole. I'd love to go back again - I love the solitude and emptiness as well as the long roadless stretches.
"Fyi, there is very little road walking. Almost none if one doesnt start/end at the traditional train stations and uses the common trailheads."
<slaps forehead>
My bad --- I saw "ADK" and read "ADT". Quite a different animal. Sorry to introduce confusion.
Gadget, as you now note the amount of road walk on an official NPT thru isn't all that much a big deal. That's coming from me who doesn't usually appreciate road walks especially paved road walk sections of a trail. From my perspective of being a SOBO NPTer the most discerning OPTIONAL road walk was from the southern most single track TH(Benson) into Northville and that's being addressed.
AK, thanks for the political and NY trail's insight. Your comments are always worthy of appreciative consideration. You always seem to provide just the right amount of applicable to the topic nicely snapped pics too.