View Full Version : Shelter areas versus not using shelter areas on the AT
Rosepedal
01-12-2015, 17:38
Hello WB:
I am new here and looking for advice. I have been planning a trip to the AT on the SNP section. I have been reading massive amounts of information an while researching my trip I have seen a lot of information regarding an increase in bear activity through the SNP. My question is and as a female in my 50's should I avoid sleeping at shelter locations as I hear they attract bears. I will be tent camping so how important is it that I even plan my hikes to begin and end at shelter areas. Also, I have read about poisonous snakes hanging around shelters due to the high concentration of rodents. Don't get me wrong, I love nature and I am up to the challenge but I want to reduce my exposure if at all possible from "things" that don't appreciate me in their world.
Any advice regarding shelter versus non shelter tent camping and bears on the SNP section would be appreciated!
Thanks
hikernutcasey
01-12-2015, 17:50
Personally, I do stay around shelters quite a bit even though I mostly tent camp. Reason being there is almost always water nearby and I like being able to use the picnic table to sit at and cook on. It just makes things a little easier.
I haven't had any bad experiences staying near shelters. I've never even seen a snake or a bear around a shelter. I don't the odds are much different from seeing them anywhere else. I did talk to a ranger last year who said a bear had stolen a guys shoe from outside his tent one night :)
Just take the normal precautions to keep food up and you should be fine.
I think just the opposite, the more humans the fewer bears and snakes. There are many rules to follow in the park. I tried hard to make sure I followed them all and still got into trouble.
Rules like "out of site of any "facility" or "trail" to set up camp." So if you camp near a road pull over area you are near a facility, I found out the hard way. (a parking lot is a facility) Just so happens the ridge and parking areas are flat areas and many have picnic tables and grass making it very inviting to pitch a tent. The ranges happen to know where all these nice areas are. Bears are attracted to food. Shelter areas have convenient location to hang food.
Sounds like your question is specific to SNP so I'll provide my experiences there tenting both at and away from shelters. Short story is that I've seen no difference. I've camped near Pinefield Hut, Bearfence Hut, Gravel Springs, and Byrds Nest #3, but always at least 100 yards or so away from the structure. The huts have bear poles which is nice since you don't have to throw a bear bag. I had no bear encounters at all near the huts. Camping away from the huts has been the same story. No encounters. Most of my camping in SNP has been in the springtime but I've also been there a few times in summer and the only bears I have seen have been on trail and they all ran away exhibiting behavior similar to deer.
If you have doubts or are uncomfortable with these issues then I think staying near the huts will make you feel more comfortable. There are likely to be other people there and the bear pole takes the stress out of food storage since you don't have to hang your food. The huts have camping areas nearby for tenting.
evyck da fleet
01-12-2015, 18:01
I prefer tenting near shelters when there's bear activity. I know there will be other people around most likely making some noise which should deter bears, a water source nearby, and a bear pole to hang my food instead of trying to find a branch to hang my bag from or sleeping with my food in my tent. Of course, if you were talking about a specific shelter, I would probably plan so as not to stay at that one.
CrumbSnatcher
01-12-2015, 18:27
i believe you are required to stay near the shelters inside the park. i could be wrong?
i believe you are required to stay near the shelters inside the park. i could be wrong?
No, you don't have to stay near shelters in SNP. You can camp anywhere as long as you stay within the park regulations in terms of being away a certain distance from water, trails, roads, developed areas, etc.
GoldenBear
01-12-2015, 18:44
> i believe you are required to stay near the shelters inside the park.
> i could be wrong?
Plain and simple, you're wrong.
Great Smoky Mountains NP has severe restrictions on where you can spend the night.
Shenandoah has pretty loose ones.
http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm
GoldenBear
01-12-2015, 19:02
But the animals you need to be concerned about while staying at a shelters are NOT bears or snakes.
They're other people.
There has NEVER been a serious, let alone fatal, bear attack for any visitor in Shenandoah.
Which is no surprise, considering that there have been fewer than five fatal, wild bear attacks, in the U.S.A. east of the Mississippi, in the last SIXTY YEARS.
The CDC has published the rough estimate that there are about 5000-7000 Americans are bit by snakes each year, with an annual average of roughly five deaths.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/snakes/
The large majority of these are the result of people trying to reach for the snake.
Conversely (and sadly), hikers of all kinds have been killed, both by accident and by design, by other humans.
Sometimes at shelters, sometimes not.
That isn't to say you should be paranoid about your fellow campers; because you shouldn't be.
Just learn to use the normal caution you would use in any situation with strangers, and you should be safe from the most dangerous animal.
At which point you can enjoy the thought of having the VERY rare privilege of seeing a bear while on The Trail.
It's happened to me four times*, and each time the bear ran out of sight before I could even get my camera out of its case.
* Pedantic types may note that last week I said "three" -- I simply forgot about a sighting in New Jersey.
CrumbSnatcher
01-12-2015, 19:21
sorry for bad info
Studlintsean
01-12-2015, 19:38
I have spent quite a few nights in SNP and I have never seen a snake or a bear at a shelter. I have seen both while walking.
Sandy of PA
01-12-2015, 21:52
I saw bears at Lewis Mountain Campground and Bearfence shelter in 2012. I like to start early in the morning and averaged 3 bears a day for the whole park. They either ran away or ignored me completely. No fear, just nature, keep on minding my own business, they did the same.
Slo-go'en
01-12-2015, 22:00
I saw a bear with two cubs sort of near a shelter in SNP as they were casually walking away from the area.
I saw a crow fly off with a $3 power bar I had just bought and put on a picnic table after I walked away a few feet to say hello to some fellow hikers. Chased him over a hill and found a whole pile of wrappers. Apparently I wasn't the first victim.
Instead of propagating more misinformation please refer to the REGULATIONS regarding SNP:
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-regs.htm
swjohnsey
01-14-2015, 11:31
Never saw any snakes around shelters. Bears like shelters because that is were the food is. I almost never camped around shelters.
bigcranky
01-14-2015, 11:53
In Shenandoah I preferred to tent near the shelters. (Actually, to hang a hammock, but whatever.) The shelters all have good water nearby (which is sometimes an issue especially in the southern portion of the park), there are usually decent tent sites situated well away from the shelter itself, and I can use the picnic table for making dinner.
I have seen many bears in SNP. Not a big deal.
GoldenBear
01-14-2015, 12:19
> Instead of propagating more misinformation please refer to the REGULATIONS regarding SNP:
> http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisi...untry-regs.htm
Uhh, your first sentence dealt with "regulations regarding SNP" -- ie, Shenandoah NP.
Which makes sense, as the OP is asking questions about that park, and not any other.
Your link goes to regulations regarding Great Smoky Mountains NP.
The two parks have VERY different back country regulations.
I can't begin to imagine how you confused the two.
In the S.N.P you can camp any place in the wilderness as long as it's 100 ft from a road crossing or facility and the trail itself just check out SNP web page and NOT the GSMNP web page, on my 2012 thru-hike I got to talking to a female ranger in SNP and she literally told me where all the great camp spots were. and no i don't tent around shelters, I prefer to cook, collect water and then move on to a more private spot.
Bears are no problem most of the time they will just run, you will be visiting the backcountry expect to see bears , snakes and the like.
In the S.N.P you can camp any place in the wilderness as long as it's 100 ft from a road crossing or facility and the trail itself just check out SNP web page and NOT the GSMNP web page, on my 2012 thru-hike I got to talking to a female ranger in SNP and she literally told me where all the great camp spots were. and no i don't tent around shelters, I prefer to cook, collect water and then move on to a more private spot.
Bears are no problem most of the time they will just run, you will be visiting the backcountry expect to see bears , snakes and the like.
also if your going to be entering the park Via the AT, at either rockfish Gap or the other end remember you have to get a self register backcountry permit, the Kiosk is located right on the trail, you can't miss it. Good luck and happy hiking.
My apologies to the OP regarding my incorrect link in my previous post. Brain freeze and lack of adequate fresh air ventilation. ��
SNP: http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_prepare.htm
Rosepedal
01-15-2015, 21:04
Thanks to everyone for the great advice and wisdom. I appreciate all of it. Thank you all so much. Any other advice for hiking the AT from rockfish gap north would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
There was a bear who made her home just above Gravel Springs hut this past year. I actually stayed there twice during the summer and both times everyone was grabbing some great photos. Nothing to fret about though, her cubs would play in the trees while she seemingly posed for photo ops at a safe distance.
If you stop by the waysides Loft Mtn had great service, Big Meadows not so much. Elkwallow was pretty sweet also. They all have decent prices on domestic beer or at least good prices for such a public place.
Studlintsean
01-16-2015, 11:04
There was a bear who made her home just above Gravel Springs hut this past year. I actually stayed there twice during the summer and both times everyone was grabbing some great photos. Nothing to fret about though, her cubs would play in the trees while she seemingly posed for photo ops at a safe distance.
If you stop by the waysides Loft Mtn had great service, Big Meadows not so much. Elkwallow was pretty sweet also. They all have decent prices on domestic beer or at least good prices for such a public place.
She (or another bear) has been around for several years. I have never personally seen her but I have read about her in the shelter log a few times over the past few years. Sounds like a pretty cool experience.
I did alot of stealth camping and night hiking on the trail in 09, purposefully avoided most everyone. But every time I decided to stop at the shelters or a hostel I had a great time and meet great people .. except one kid smoking crack in PA in the shelter on a Monsoon of a night .. go figure.
TAny other advice for hiking the AT from rockfish gap north would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
This is a great hike! We saw 14 bears between Waynesboro and Front Royal (none at a shelter). I should have carried less food because of the Waysides (cheeseburgers at Big Meadow, Breakfast at Skyline, and shakes at Elk Wallow!)
She (or another bear) has been around for several years. I have never personally seen her but I have read about her in the shelter log a few times over the past few years. Sounds like a pretty cool experience.
There was an older female bear euthanized the day before I arrived at this shelter this past October. She had been harassing hikers for weeks. Her cub was still hanging around when I went through there. A ranger told me they only bother to relocate younger trouble bears.
One Half
01-17-2015, 19:34
I saw a bear with two cubs sort of near a shelter in SNP as they were casually walking away from the area.
I saw a crow fly off with a $3 power bar I had just bought and put on a picnic table after I walked away a few feet to say hello to some fellow hikers. Chased him over a hill and found a whole pile of wrappers. Apparently I wasn't the first victim.
Now that's funny!
You wont see any Bears, if you do you are lucky. 2009 only bears were cause of a dumped can of hot chocolate in NJ.
I avoided most shelters, but I wasn't hiking Thru to be very social. Every section hike I've done, and on my upcoming hike I plan to hit all the shelters - always great people at them and the hostels. As with any, Vacation. Be on your guard, be alert and aware of your environment. There are more people on the AT to do good, than harm - so friendly help and conversation is never far off.
I think just the opposite, the more humans the fewer bears and snakes. There are many rules to follow in the park. I tried hard to make sure I followed them all and still got into trouble.
Rules like "out of site of any "facility" or "trail" to set up camp." So if you camp near a road pull over area you are near a facility, I found out the hard way. (a parking lot is a facility) Just so happens the ridge and parking areas are flat areas and many have picnic tables and grass making it very inviting to pitch a tent. The ranges happen to know where all these nice areas are. Bears are attracted to food. Shelter areas have convenient location to hang food.
illigal camping areas is SNP:
...within ¼ mile of a paved road, park boundary, or park facilities such as a campground, picnic area, visitor center, lodge, wayside, or restaurant. Backcountry camping requires that you get off the beaten path. If you do not want to travel the required distance, consider a front-country campground (https://cms.ner.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm).
...within 100 yards of a hut, cabin, or day-use shelter. You may camp in a hut or cabin as described in this bulletin, or in a designated park-constructed campsites at Appalachian Trail huts.
...within 20 yards of trails and unpaved roads.
DID you see the 100 yards from a hut? DID you see 1/4 mile from a wayside. The AT parallels the Skyline drive hardly ever getting 1/4 mile from it. 1/4 mile downhill from skyline drive is a long way down!
I just want to make a point of how HARD it is to follow the rules.