View Full Version : Quality Nutrient Powders over food on the AT
2LBS of Spirutien - tons of minerals, amino acids and easy mixing.
2LB of mixed Green Superfood powder - every vitamin, mineral you need balances out and superloads vit D and B
150grams blend daily tumeric and daily detox from MedaFoods; Tumeric reduces swelling helps healing, and the detox - obvious benifits.
2LBS Vegan organic protean powder. Most likely Vega
Carry a wide mouth nalgene with a blender ball in it - food for a month.
Along with vitamins and minerals. Mega Foods Men's multi, Mega Foods D3 and maybe UnStress or Dream Release to help with end of long hard days. Source Naturals Colloidal Trace minerals.
was thinking about using those high quality zip lock smell proof bags and bounce box if needed. But 6 1/2 LBS including nalgene is enough food for a month.
Obviously snickers, pop tarts and other tasty bits will be aquired along the trail as needed for ravenous junk food cravings. Anyone try to Thru doing this approach? How did it go?
I did a SOBO in 09 with all trail bought food - felt like the lack of minerals and nutrients was a drain. I know the cost is greater, but I have all my gear - well used and well fitted. So cost aside, any thoughts?
I've tried, for periods, supplementing my trail food with all those powders on long distance hikes accept the Meda Foods tumeric. I here you about tumeric's benefits for easing or preventing inflammation. I do take tumeric on the trail but opt to take in capsule form combined with bromelain both having anti-inflammatory properties, anti bacterial, anti viral, aiding in digestion, etc - made by Natural Factors
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/natural-factors-turmeric-bromelain-90-capsules/f3-1032?sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&cm_mmc=Shopping-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=Natural_Factors&utm_content=F3-1032&psource=DECSHIP&mr:referralID=59a1a0f2-9b99-11e4-ab7a-001b2166c62d#.VLXbmCfwNJM WHENEVER I find fresh tumeric root in stores when hiking I pick some up to add FRESH into food.
However, it is my belief powdered foods are not a replacement for whole foods or other non-junk trail food options. Again, I supplement with these powdered items on occasion often mixing into a morning meal like oatmeal, dinner, and/or the occasional on the go drink.
Based on my trail food wt saving long distance hiking research noting the amount of food(in terms of cals, volume, and overall nutrition) the vast majority of long distance hikers consume daily it's my belief my average 1.25lbs(20 oz) - 1.6 lbs of daily trail food is super dense in overall nutrition far surpassing simply perceiving proper trail nutrition in terms of overall calories, and daily fat, carbs and protein percentages. It is my strong belief food is more than just those things or the sum of it's isolated, sometimes concentrated, parts. Food is not found like that in Nature. Mind you I have NOT accomplished my trail food wt saving ways simply by opting for powders, gels, etc. Actually, in the last few yrs, I've been adding back in whole fresh veggies into my trail food diet. I perceive it as perhaps having a bit more bulk when I do this but the benefits far outweigh the negatives. When warm enough I also grow sprouts on trail in a small hemp bag attached top the side of my backpack.
Consider, before opting to purchase large amounts of powders, that I often notice shortly fall out of favor in people's homes AND ON TRAILS(I notice protein powders, etc in trail boxes often!), sample some small packets. Work various products into meals as supplements NOT necessarily whole food replacements. But if you insist on going with whole food meal replacements by opting for these liquid powdered choices again also sample those first. IMHO, some taste like crap and/or are sugary. I personally certainly wouldn't want to be drinking the same stuff day after day after day. That gets boring. I mix up my powders even when I do supplement with them. You've listed what I consider some of the better powdered products.
One last note. IMO, politics, religion, and nutrition are some of the most hotly debated opinionated topics. The first two are a NO NO here on WB but some of the back and forth debates on nutrition I've noticed here on WB can make up for the highly debatable NO NO topics.
Good luck.
rocketsocks
01-13-2015, 23:50
I've tried, for periods, supplementing my trail food with all those powders on long distance hikes accept the Meda Foods tumeric. I here you about tumeric's benefits for easing or preventing inflammation. I do take tumeric on the trail but opt to take in capsule form combined with bromelain both having anti-inflammatory properties, anti bacterial, anti viral, aiding in digestion, etc - made by Natural Factors
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/natural-factors-turmeric-bromelain-90-capsules/f3-1032?sourceType=sc&source=SHOP&cm_mmc=Shopping-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=Natural_Factors&utm_content=F3-1032&psource=DECSHIP&mr:referralID=59a1a0f2-9b99-11e4-ab7a-001b2166c62d#.VLXbmCfwNJM WHENEVER I find fresh tumeric root in stores when hiking I pick some up to add FRESH into food.
However, it is my belief powdered foods are not a replacement for whole foods or other non-junk trail food options. Again, I supplement with these powdered items on occasion often mixing into a morning meal like oatmeal, dinner, and/or the occasional on the go drink.
Based on my trail food wt saving long distance hiking research noting the amount of food(in terms of cals, volume, and overall nutrition) the vast majority of long distance hikers consume daily it's my belief my average 1.25lbs(20 oz) - 1.6 lbs of daily trail food is super dense in overall nutrition far surpassing simply perceiving proper trail nutrition in terms of overall calories, and daily fat, carbs and protein percentages. It is my strong belief food is more than just those things or the sum of it's isolated, sometimes concentrated, parts. Food is not found like that in Nature. Mind you I have NOT accomplished my trail food wt saving ways simply by opting for powders, gels, etc. Actually, in the last few yrs, I've been adding back in whole fresh veggies into my trail food diet. I perceive it as perhaps having a bit more bulk when I do this but the benefits far outweigh the negatives. When warm enough I also grow sprouts on trail in a small hemp bag attached top the side of my backpack.
Consider, before opting to purchase large amounts of powders, that I often notice shortly fall out of favor in people's homes AND ON TRAILS(I notice protein powders, etc in trail boxes often!), sample some small packets. Work various products into meals as supplements NOT necessarily whole food replacements. But if you insist on going with whole food meal replacements by opting for these liquid powdered choices again also sample those first. IMHO, some taste like crap and/or are sugary. I personally certainly wouldn't want to be drinking the same stuff day after day after day. That gets boring. I mix up my powders even when I do supplement with them. You've listed what I consider some of the better powdered products.
One last note. IMO, politics, religion, and nutrition are some of the most hotly debated opinionated topics. The first two are a NO NO here on WB but some of the back and forth debates on nutrition I've noticed here on WB can make up for the highly debatable NO NO topics.
Good luck.
I enjoyed those threads. You, "Pedaling Fool" and others always gave me a jumping off point to do further research...good stuffs! Haven't seen PF around in a while.
PF, labeling me as Foodie was the best compliment he ever applied to me.
On trail, both as hikers, I've met and immensely enjoyed discussing food with co-founder and co-CEO of Whole Foods Bob Mackey around a couple of campfires. He was with his wife or daughter or friend. We were on the same page. What a great guy non judgmental, extremely knowledgeable, humble, excellent conscientious business modeler, good listener, and conversationalist. I immensely enjoyed John Mackey's book Conscious Capitalism. I consider it a good read in favor of the free market enterprise system. It's the business model of Patagonia as well. I like what Mackey said in a Kudlow interview on CNBC.
http://www.valorebooks.com/textbooks/conscious-capitalism-liberating-the-heroic-spirit-of-business-1stth-edition/9781422144206#default=buy&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=BingFTP&date=01/13/15
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=whole+foods+ceo&FORM=VIRE6#view=detail&mid=BAADA0DE608D4DBFEB2ABAADA0DE608D4DBFEB2A
A friend of mine introduced me to the powder protein drinks. I mentioned them on my website a while back. I use small plastic bags intended for "mother's milk storage. The small bags have oz. measurement lines on them and have a double ziplok closure for leakproof mixing/drinking bag. These little bags make for an ultra easy way to get the powdered product to mix quickly and thoroughly.
The photo shows what the bags look like.
Here is a quote:
Mothers Milk ziplock bags (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6304#p50625)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAALCAYAAAB PhbxiAAAAAXNSR0ICQMB9xQAAAAlwSFlzAAASdAAAEnQB3mYfe AAAABl0RVh0U29mdHdhcmUATWljcm9zb2Z0IE9mZmljZX/tNXEAAAFUSURBVCjPdZK/isJAEMZ9hnuHe5B7EDEEkRSagBg2qJHYp4haqE2iIIjgBRGSB7 ASvM5CLBWbgIXnX4yS77ILCQfRhY8Zvp3fzsBOql6vp6hIeKrV KsKAUqnEVKvVoCjKj6ZpH1FdpDjJZrOk3W5jtVphvV4zOY6Dcr n8WywWHVEUP1+C6XSaDAYD/D/z+RyFQgGSJNFJviuVylcCzGQypN/v4/F4xCDtOhwOMRqN0Gg0EHbVXoK9Xg/3+51Bz+cTQRCwnHqWZYHjOCUBhiahl9frNS6OYM/z0O12KUhegqZp4nQ6MeB8PrNHbrcbttstOp0OeJ5/Dx6PR/i+z+LlcsHhcMByuUSz2UQulyNvR6WF+/0em80Gu92OdVssFjAMA4IgJEFqtlotzGYzuK6L8XgM27YxnU4x mUyg6zry+XwSjDYn3BS2NbIsx6Keqqr0L2PwDzVlfGk6Rpo3AA AAAElFTkSuQmCC (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?p=50625#p50625)by zelph (http://www.bplite.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=53) » Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:14 pm
Hey, these little bags are the mom's meow They hold one cup of water nicely, have a gusseted bottom that keeps the bag standing up by it's self when filled. I've been using them with a health food product that I mix with water. The bag has a double zip locking system to prevent leakage. I pour in the powdered product, zip the two lines of closures and shake vigorously to mix the dry product. Mixes up terribly quick If I were to try and mix the dry product in a cup/glass it would take too long because the powder wants to float on top takes forever and a day to mix so the bag is a super fast way to geter done. It's really easy to drink right out of the bag.....I like easy and no cup to wash You can use these bags for your favorite mix. Put pancake mix in them or powdered eggs then just ad water and shake. Pudding...shake-a-pudding... I can do that
This years resolution is to eat healthier so all the goodies in this product called Seven Essentials is going to make me all new again
This product comes in bulk that I can transfer to the Mother's ziplocks for future use in pre measured amounts. Makes for easy and economical servings. The chocolate one tastes good for the morning warm drink. A friend of mine introduced me to this line of supplements. The Mother's ziplock was my bright idea
"quote"
The Seven Essentials: Natural Berry
The Seven Essentials is a Nutritional Scientific Breakthrough. It gives you an easy, cost effective way to get all the nutrients you need without having to go on a special diet or keep a cupboard full of pills. And it could turn out to be the least expensive, most effective health insurance you can buy.
This non-genetically engineered Super-Food contains all the nutrients your body needs daily for healthy performance. And it comes as an easily absorbed powder that dissolves straight into your cells. You don't have to make do with just taking vitamins and minerals. Now you can get everything you need with one scoop of powder in water or juice twice a day - it's so easy. And with each scoop you'll get the seven nutrients you need to be healthy: :
1 - Enzymes: The workers and powerhouse of the body. This unique blend of plant enzymes aids your digestion and metabolic processes. Your body has over 70 trillion cells performing over 1000 biochemical transactions controlled by enzymes . . . And enzymes need coenzymes (organic vitamins) and cofactors ( ionic and trace minerals) in order to function properly.
2 - Co-Enzyme Vitamins: These organic tools used by the enzymes come straight from two of the most potent nutritional sources - stabilized rice bran and 'flash glanced' whole vegetables.
3 - Co-Factor Minerals: The most absorbable minerals and trace mineral co-factors from 2,000 feet below the Pacific Ocean boosted with additional calcium, magnesium and Vitamin D3 for bone health. All three keys to unleashing the power of the Seven Essential super nutrients.
4 - Protein: In a hydrolyzed whey formulation - the only whey that provides 100% absorption. Protein is essential for the manufacture of hormones, antibodies, enzymes, tissues, energy and proper pH balance - and is required for cell growth and detoxification.
5 - Essential Oils: These are essential for cell membrane integrity, hormonal regulation, mineral utilization and chemical detoxification. And Seven Essentials has the full range of fatty acids you need.
6 - Fiber: Vital for eliminating toxins. A high fiber diet reduces the risks of many cancers and helps to lower cholesterol and reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease. This complete fiber blend helps regulate blood sugar, cholesterol and triglyceride levels, and to detoxify the bowel.
7 - Probiotics: A strong immune system is your best protection against illness and disease and is vital for true health and fitness. Probiotics supply crucial support so your immune system can function at its best. This essential bacteria - a digestive-resistant lactobacillus - protects you from pathogenes, breaks down undigested food and eliminates toxic waste.
Plus! Broccoli Selenium - a unique protection against the silent killers - cancer and heart disease - and Siberian Ginseng for stress relief and cell protection.
Odd Man Out
01-14-2015, 14:01
Based on the amounts and nutrition labels of the products mentioned in the OP, the suggested diet comes out to 317 cal per day which is less than 10% of calories needed by thru hiker. Thus more than 90% of your nutrition will be coming from other tasty bits acquired along the trail to satisfy what would be ravenous junk food cravings. I would not consider this a healthy diet. I think Dogwood said it best. "Powdered foods are not a replacement for whole foods." Also, there are loads of scientific studies to show that very few people benefit from protein supplements. While protein is needed to rebuild muscles, for nearly all people, including elite athletes, the protein found in a balance diet of real food will more than meet your needs. What you mostly need for hiking is energy and protein is the least effective macronutrient at providing energy.
Just Bill
01-14-2015, 15:16
I'd be interested in something like what Zelph posted.
I wish I knew enough micro nutrient information to incorporate everything in I could/should.
100% with DW though- supplements are supplemental to real food.
A few things I do use-
Chia Seeds
Cacao Nibs
Goji Berries
Cinnamon
Nutmeg
Trying to cook with more curries and Asian spices in general.
Trying to come up with more veggie powder/leather based broths instead of reaching for the bullion for meal bases.
Tons of different grains in the Bob's Red Mill Line.
Coconut oils and sugars.
Yerba Mate and Rooibos
I am still using Maltodextrin- those are good easy carbs.
Gave up on Whey Protien, I get enough protein simply by using nuts, beans, etc.
Green Powder- I just take all the greens we don't eat and toss them in the dehydrator. Spinach, Kale, broccoli, whatever is around. I crunch it by hand for soups, or run it through the coffee mill for a powder. It's easy enough to bury into a meal- I can toss a tablespoon of powder into a breakfast and not notice it.
I'm sure it's not as good or fresh as the real stuff, but the price is right.
I think there is a place for these types of additions, just not personally sure if there is a simple product that makes sense.
Thank you for the feedback. It's a good point on the caloric count. I have lived the good life for a few years, so I'm about 50lbs heavier than I need to be (250), so the weight loss will be welcome.
Seven essentials looks like a great product, I have not come across it, thank you for the direction.
Revised plan is to add in powdered almond butter, and powdered almond milk to the mix, and double up the servings for breakfast and dinner. Lunch will be a single mix of all. So with all the stuff, around 750 calories a serving.
I cant say I counted calories the first time, but I ate a TON of food and came off the trail about the same, 185 at 6'3" - all be it in much better cardio shape.
So with a double up, and a bounce box being pushed forward I can carry 6-8 days of quality powders coming in under 6lbs with the bottle and Nalgene.
I did the trail, slow and packed to the hilt - stepped off in baxter with a 65lbs pack, and it didn't shrink much and I stopped everywhere to eat and rest. I want to do it fast and light this time - that's why I'm thinking powders, 8 days of food for 6lbs, with a water filter I'm good to travel a good distance between post office, or the real need to stop.
Thanks for the ideas. Might be sooner than I plan, looking like first week in Feb I'll be on the approach trail.
"8 days of food for 6lbs..I can carry 6-8 days of quality powders coming in under 6lbs with the bottle and Nalgene."
REALLY? :-?:-?:-?:confused::confused::confused: ----less than 3/4 lb(12 oz) of trail food planned per day that you carry? You might want to rethink that! Fast and light, or just light, is not done long term on a long distance hike by subjecting yourself to wasting away physically and mentally.
Please share that diet in some detail. Those avg daily caloric loads alone WILL NOT be sustainable! I can't see you doing that unless you really really skimp carrying on trail calories and overall nutrition eventually breaking down crashing and burning physically and mentally.
272G or about a half a pound packs in every vitamin mineral and amino at 1130 calories with around 45G of fat in the mix I'm looking to make. So it looks like you are correct in that I need to adjust the quantity. 544G or about 1.1LBS per day so around 3270G would be about 6 days in at 7.1LBS. SO around 4350G to get my goal days on trail.
Way less than the pop tarts, peanut butter, wraps, snickers, oatmeal, MSR reactor, coffee, jerkey, tuna packets and other candy I carried last time.
Well if anyone has tried the powder way please let me know how it worked for you. The input is useful, I don't tend to overthink any equipment but I'm trying to stay below 35lbs hiking the whole way, with gear on my back weighing 25 currently.
One more tidbit you might consider. Going fast and light, while consumable wt can play into it, it is DEFINITELY NOT the only category to save wt on your person. Good luck. You may find for a long distance hike you get bored with the same powdered tastes, powdered drinks, etc.
You said,"I did the trail, slow and packed to the hilt - stepped off in baxter with a 65lbs pack, and it didn't shrink much and I stopped everywhere to eat and rest. I want to do it fast and light this time." It would seem if what you are relating is reasonably accurate than you finished at Springer Mt with close to a 65 lb load. If that is true then it seems you are going to the rather other opposite extreme attempting to skimp on calories and optimal overall nutrition in an attempt to thru-hike the AT faster and lighter. QUESTION? Tell us what you've done differently in other areas with your kit and by applying different skills that have resulted in reducing that 65 lb load you hauled last AT thru-hike? It seems you are narrowly focusing in on reducing food wt when there likely are other wt saving applications that could be utilized to achieve a better overall wt saving balance!
Fireonwindcsr
01-15-2015, 00:40
I'd be interested in something like what Zelph posted.
I wish I knew enough micro nutrient information to incorporate everything in I could/should.
100% with DW though- supplements are supplemental to real food.
A few things I do use-
Chia Seeds
Cacao Nibs
Goji Berries
Cinnamon
Nutmeg
Trying to cook with more curries and Asian spices in general.
Trying to come up with more veggie powder/leather based broths instead of reaching for the bullion for meal bases.
Tons of different grains in the Bob's Red Mill Line.
Coconut oils and sugars.
Yerba Mate and Rooibos
I am still using Maltodextrin- those are good easy carbs.
Gave up on Whey Protien, I get enough protein simply by using nuts, beans, etc.
Green Powder- I just take all the greens we don't eat and toss them in the dehydrator. Spinach, Kale, broccoli, whatever is around. I crunch it by hand for soups, or run it through the coffee mill for a powder. It's easy enough to bury into a meal- I can toss a tablespoon of powder into a breakfast and not notice it.
I'm sure it's not as good or fresh as the real stuff, but the price is right.
I think there is a place for these types of additions, just not personally sure if there is a simple product that makes sense.
Let the laughs begin..... This is a great list and it got me to thinking. What goes in must come out. I'm 58 and for 10 years I've added Metamucil to my diet, (my 28 yr old daughter also takes)... Anyway, it makes for a cleaner emptying session and you'll use 1-3 squares to wipe. I'm serious. Makes life on the trail less pungent.... Sorry, had to share. They make capsules if you can't drink the Orange mixture.
Odd Man Out
01-15-2015, 00:45
As a biochemistry professor, I get lots of questions from students about nutrition. I look for info in reputable scientific journals so I can give substantiated answers. I must say that most everything I read is quite at odds with what is put out by the companies selling dietary supplements (such from the Seven Essentials above). This one is typical, with many statements that are misleading, irrelevant, or wrong. Everything else is unsubstantiated and given the poor quality of the other claims, they certainly lack credibility. Sorry to be so negative but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents.
tauwillow
01-15-2015, 01:44
I've already started drinking Soylent, a complete meal replacement beverage. I'm currently aiming to replace 90% of my meals this way, and believe I can replicate that on the trail.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/12/the-end-of-food
http://www.soylent.me/
I've already started drinking Soylent, a complete meal replacement beverage. I'm currently aiming to replace 90% of my meals this way, and believe I can replicate that on the trail.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/12/the-end-of-food
http://www.soylent.me/
Soylent! Awesome!!! Not a fan of the chemical ingredient list, but awesome none the less. I prefer the zombie apocalypse model, eat people first and save the supplies.
When I did it before I carried a small laptop and a verizon cell card with a somewhat custom solar kit to put out 3500MAH - I was lucky enough to be able to work several days a week and get paid my pretty descent salary for it. I also had most of my drawing supplies - colored pencils, charcoal etc. I carried more than one book with me. A full FirstAid kid, never used and nothing was lightweight. I had an oversized tent, heavy sleeping pad, files and sand paper along with a letherman, gerber survival knife for carving wood trinkets when I got bored.
Better question is, what Didn't I carry. It wasn't an experience for me last time, it was - OMFG I want to get away from my daily life for awhile. I was out July 18 to Jan 10th I stayed in hotels, got lost in a few town spent a week here or there.
This time, its all about the hiking and the sights. I feel the lighter I go, the more I can enjoy the trail, the people and the experience. I can do side trails, and I'll probably do the LT out and back for fun when I get back up to VT, spend time on spur trails, extra time summiting a few stray 4000 FTers in NH.. things like that.
As a biochemistry professor, I get lots of questions from students about nutrition. I look for info in reputable scientific journals so I can give substantiated answers. I must say that most everything I read is quite at odds with what is put out by the companies selling dietary supplements (such from the Seven Essentials above). This one is typical, with many statements that are misleading, irrelevant, or wrong. Everything else is unsubstantiated and given the poor quality of the other claims, they certainly lack credibility. Sorry to be so negative but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents.
Odd Man Out, do you think the Seven Essentials product is the same as taking a multi vitamin capsule daily or do you think it would have more to offer?
swjohnsey
01-15-2015, 10:47
There's a sucker born every minute. Check out Dr. Black's Super Food.
Odd Man Out
01-15-2015, 17:14
Odd Man Out, do you think the Seven Essentials product is the same as taking a multi vitamin capsule daily or do you think it would have more to offer?
Of the Seven Essentials:
1 - Enzymes: You can't get enzymes from your diet. They are proteins and will be digested to amino acids like all other proteins. Human enzymes use the same amino acids plant enzymes, but the amino acids are put together in a different sequence, determined by your genetic code. So you wouldn't be using plant enzymes anyway. At least they put this one first so we know up front that whoever wrote this knows nothing about science and is just trying to sell us stuff.
2 - Co-Enzyme Vitamins: Most of the molecules we call vitamins are organic (this is carbon-based) molecules that we as humans can not produce ourselves but needed to make coenzymes which are the part of an enzyme that is not a protein. These are used catalytically (we don't burn them up, but use them again and again) so we only need small amounts (thus they are micronutrients). You can get these from a vitamin pill. Once a molecule is in your body, there would be no way to distinguish it from others based on its source, so thiamine molecule from rice bran or "flash glanced" vegetables can't possibly be "more potent" than thiamine from any other source.
3 - Co-Factor Minerals: These are metal ions also used to make enzymes work. The main difference between these and coenzymes are that these are metals, not carbon-based molecules. Again, you can get these from a multivitamin pill. And like the vitamins, once in your body, it would make no difference where they came from. The ad copy talks about being absorbable (also referred to a bio availability). There probably are some formulations that are absorbed better, but that would only be relevant if you are really deficient.
4 - Protein: You get this in your food. They use milk protein (whey) which is basically non-fat dry milk. Hydrolyzed means it is pre-digested. As I said earlier, there are loads of studies that find a person eating a balanced diet (even an extreme athlete) is getting plenty of protein so supplements are not necessary. Google "protein myth" to find out more. A balanced diet will assure you are getting all of the essential amino acids (i.e. the ones your body can't make).
5 - Essential Oils: The term "essential" can be misleading. You need many different fatty acids, but your body can make most of them. The ones you can't make are called essential. The same term is used to describe the amino acids you can't make (about half of them). They are not really more important than the other fats or amino acids. It just means that it is essential that you eat the ones you can't make. There are only two essential fats (linoleic and linolenic acids). You get these in your food. Canola and flax seed oils are good sources.
6 - Fiber: Stuff you can't digest - It goes in one end and out the other. Eat whole grains and legumes. Lentils are a good trail legume - they cook fast and have loads of fiber. I eat them with rice and curry (with Tumeric!).
7 - Probiotics: These are beneficial microbes in the gut. To get these in a supplement you would need live cultures to do any good. I wonder how many living cells are in a powdered supplement.
Plus! Broccoli Selenium - Selenium is another essential mineral (see #3), but broccoli is a poor source. If you eat a balanced diet, you probably are getting enough selenium from tuna, whole grain, etc... The best source (by far) is a Brazil nut - one or two a day is better than a supplement (and tastes yummy).
Siberian Ginseng for stress relief and cell protection. If it make you feel good, it is reliving stress. Don't know about cell protection.
"I had....files and sand paper along with a letherman, gerber survival knife for carving wood trinkets when I got bored."
Met a AT long section hiker who carved little chess pieces along the way as he hiked. I remember playing a few games of chess with him at shelters before he had all the pieces carved. Have you ever played chess attempting to remember that the queens were different colored unshaped natural odd looking rocks? He was the only other person I've ever met or heard who sometimes carried sandpaper for his woodcarving hobby. Kid you not. A few of us nicknamed him Andy after Andy Dufresne(Tim Robbins) in Shawshank Redemption. That sandpaper must have been like the last straw that broke the camel's back. Next time if you decide to carry sandpaper you need the BPL gear wonk approved SUL sandpaper. Hike faster and farther. :D
swjohnsey
01-15-2015, 19:59
I've already started drinking Soylent, a complete meal replacement beverage. I'm currently aiming to replace 90% of my meals this way, and believe I can replicate that on the trail.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/12/the-end-of-food
http://www.soylent.me/
"Solylent Green is people!"
swjohnsey
01-15-2015, 20:02
Couldn't one get a massive dose of probiotics by just eating poo?
Overall you did so well Odd Man Out but mis-stepped when you said we can't get enzymes from our diet. There are different types of enzymes that do different things. I think that was what you were getting at. I include raw foods and some powdered supplements in my trail diet with two of the expressed motivations being to consume natural enzymes and probiotics that are not often in many typical dehydrated and freeze dried name brand hiking meals and prepackaged dried foods on mainstream grocery store shelves. I'm sure many of us have heard of the digestive enzymes bromelain from pineapples and papain from papaya. Papain is the main ingredient in Adolf's Meat tenderizer that begins "digesting" the meat. Depending on the processes, and some other factors, enzymes and probiotics can be abundantly "alive" and bioavailable even in powders.
With a reasonable trail diet that includes whole grains, veggies, legumes, brown rice, various whole grain pastas, nuts, seeds, fruits(even some dried ones), oatmeal, etc I see no need for a Metamucil fiber supplement.
Odd Man Out
01-15-2015, 22:13
Overall you did so well Odd Man Out but mis-stepped when you said we can't get enzymes from our diet. There are different types of enzymes that do different things. I think that was what you were getting at. I include raw foods and some powdered supplements in my trail diet with two of the expressed motivations being to consume natural enzymes and probiotics that are not often in many typical dehydrated and freeze dried name brand hiking meals and prepackaged dried foods on mainstream grocery store shelves. I'm sure many of us have heard of the digestive enzymes bromelain from pineapples and papain from papaya. Papain is the main ingredient in Adolf's Meat tenderizer that begins "digesting" the meat. Depending on the processes, and some other factors, enzymes and probiotics can be abundantly "alive" and bioavailable even in powders.
Granted there are a few digestive enzymes in foods that can function in your stomach and gut. Also remember that soft drinks were originally formulated to be medications. Coke had cocaine and Pepsi had pepsin (another digestive enzyme). This is why soda fountains had their origins in pharmacies.
But the original quote said:
"This unique blend of plant enzymes aids your digestion and metabolic processes. Your body has over 70 trillion cells performing over 1000 biochemical transactions controlled by enzymes". (my emphasis)
The digestive processes are taking place outside of your cells in your gut. The thousands of enzymes inside your trillions of cells are not getting enzymes from this or any other supplement.
Sticking to what Seven Essentials stated: "This unique blend of plant enzymes aids your digestion and metabolic processes. Your body has over 70 trillion cells performing over 1000 biochemical transactions controlled by enzymes" I can't see anything misleading, irrelevant, or wrong specifically about this.
Of the Seven Essentials:
1 - Enzymes: You can't get enzymes from your diet. They are proteins and will be digested to amino acids like all other proteins. Human enzymes use the same amino acids plant enzymes, but the amino acids are put together in a different sequence, determined by your genetic code. So you wouldn't be using plant enzymes anyway. At least they put this one first so we know up front that whoever wrote this knows nothing about science and is just trying to sell us stuff.
2 - Co-Enzyme Vitamins: Most of the molecules we call vitamins are organic (this is carbon-based) molecules that we as humans can not produce ourselves but needed to make coenzymes which are the part of an enzyme that is not a protein. These are used catalytically (we don't burn them up, but use them again and again) so we only need small amounts (thus they are micronutrients). You can get these from a vitamin pill. Once a molecule is in your body, there would be no way to distinguish it from others based on its source, so thiamine molecule from rice bran or "flash glanced" vegetables can't possibly be "more potent" than thiamine from any other source.
3 - Co-Factor Minerals: These are metal ions also used to make enzymes work. The main difference between these and coenzymes are that these are metals, not carbon-based molecules. Again, you can get these from a multivitamin pill. And like the vitamins, once in your body, it would make no difference where they came from. The ad copy talks about being absorbable (also referred to a bio availability). There probably are some formulations that are absorbed better, but that would only be relevant if you are really deficient.
4 - Protein: You get this in your food. They use milk protein (whey) which is basically non-fat dry milk. Hydrolyzed means it is pre-digested. As I said earlier, there are loads of studies that find a person eating a balanced diet (even an extreme athlete) is getting plenty of protein so supplements are not necessary. Google "protein myth" to find out more. A balanced diet will assure you are getting all of the essential amino acids (i.e. the ones your body can't make).
5 - Essential Oils: The term "essential" can be misleading. You need many different fatty acids, but your body can make most of them. The ones you can't make are called essential. The same term is used to describe the amino acids you can't make (about half of them). They are not really more important than the other fats or amino acids. It just means that it is essential that you eat the ones you can't make. There are only two essential fats (linoleic and linolenic acids). You get these in your food. Canola and flax seed oils are good sources.
6 - Fiber: Stuff you can't digest - It goes in one end and out the other. Eat whole grains and legumes. Lentils are a good trail legume - they cook fast and have loads of fiber. I eat them with rice and curry (with Tumeric!).
7 - Probiotics: These are beneficial microbes in the gut. To get these in a supplement you would need live cultures to do any good. I wonder how many living cells are in a powdered supplement.
Plus! Broccoli Selenium - Selenium is another essential mineral (see #3), but broccoli is a poor source. If you eat a balanced diet, you probably are getting enough selenium from tuna, whole grain, etc... The best source (by far) is a Brazil nut - one or two a day is better than a supplement (and tastes yummy).
Siberian Ginseng for stress relief and cell protection. If it make you feel good, it is reliving stress. Don't know about cell protection.
Odd Man Out, thank you for your time and effort to give us your insight into the 7 essentials, very helpful. I’ll pass that onto my friend that introduced me to the product. That company also has a chocolate drink that tastes good as a morning hot chocolate drink. It easily mixes with my new found mixing bags intended for breast milk storage. The bags have a gusset bottom that allows the bag to stand straight up when filled. I find them very convenient for mixing the drink.
I have been considering Just Tomatos fruit powders, as a basis for making a powder supplement for the long trails
I understand that a University of Virginia report on dietary human fiber listed practical amounts: 1/2 cup pears, 1/2 cup Hubbard-type squash, 1/4 cup red or black raspberries.
The report listed 12 cups cereal for equivalent value: not practical.
This, for health. Not for illness.
On the trail, I opt for honey dried-pears if I can find this treat. Otherwise, it is freeze-dried red raspberries.
Why not powdered?
I like sea salt for trace minerals. I found one brand had the trace minerals without excess sodium.
Add the essential fats and fatty acids, and the more perishable ingredients when ready to eat?
I have been thinking along these lines.
shelterbuilder
01-17-2015, 23:29
Here's a little "food for thought" (please pardon the intentional pun): 7 1/2 years ago, after I had a total laryngectomy to remove a recurrent cancerous growth on my vocal cords, I was sent home from the hospital with an open surgical wound that essentially an open hole in my esophagus which made normal eating/drinking impossible. I had a PEG tube implanted into my stomach, and for over 1 1/2 years (until I had graft surgery to close the hole in my neck), my entire diet consisted of "liquid nutrition" and a liquid protein supplement. The basic formula of the liquid nutrition was (more or less) the same as Carnation's Instant Breakfast. It came in little cans (about 375 calories per can, I think), and during this entire time, every time I went backpacking, I would plan on about 8 cans per day (2 for breakfast, 2 for lunch, 2 for dinner, and 1 each for a mid-morning and a mid-afternoon snack). Now, these were admittedly short trips, so your long-term mileage would vary. Heavy? you bet! (They didn't have this formula in powdered form back then, although I think that now they may.) And they were a real B!+ch to keep from freezing in the wintertime (think "hot water bottle and a soft-sided cooler"). But in terms of a total meal replacement regimen, I personally believe that it would be possible. Just watch your total caloric intake (keep it up higher than you think you'll need - you can always cut back), and plan on some sort of protein supplement (gotta keep those muscles from wasting away - lol). One "advantage" that I had that you won't have: since I was bypassing my taste buds, the only thing that I had to worry about was an overall calorie count. I couldn't get bored with the same old taste day after day...you might!
Connie, I give up. Maybe, it's really simple, and it sounds delish, but I'm not fully grasping honey dried pears. Please explain before I Google it.
I'm a real person, I eat real food. Whole food, lots of variety. I'm healthy, pee frequently, poo daily, have all my teeth and at nearly 60 can hike, bike, ski or make whoopee all day.
Follow up on the little bags I introduced in this thread. I scrambled 2 eggs in a bag. dropped It in boiling water cooked for 4 min to perfection. Bag did not leak
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_mothers20milk20003_zpsezwwuc5n.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/obijiwa/media/mothers20milk20003_zpsezwwuc5n.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_mothers20milk20006_zpsd6ea3yvb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/obijiwa/media/mothers20milk20006_zpsd6ea3yvb.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_mothers20milk20001_zpsagdbwqdl.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/obijiwa/media/mothers20milk20001_zpsagdbwqdl.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_Mothersmilk_zps9bdb6b23.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/obijiwa/media/Mothersmilk_zps9bdb6b23.jpg.html)
zelph, Do you have a link for that bag?
Here it is: http://www.nuk-usa.com/breastfeeding/seal-n-go-breast-milk-bags/
Dogwood, The pears are dried but still moist, apparently then slathered in honey, then, dried a little.
I have had turkish apricots dried but still moist and apparently then covered in honey, then, apparently dried a little.
They are delicious.
Feral Bill
02-08-2015, 13:22
Perhas some of you have heard that 80% of samples of nutritional supplements purchased as part of an investigation had absolutely no quantity of the labeled ingredients. That would be 0%, zilch, nada. I'll stick to real food.
272G or about a half a pound packs in every vitamin mineral and amino at 1130 calories with around 45G of fat in the mix I'm looking to make. So it looks like you are correct in that I need to adjust the quantity. 544G or about 1.1LBS per day so around 3270G would be about 6 days in at 7.1LBS. SO around 4350G to get my goal days on trail.
Way less than the pop tarts, peanut butter, wraps, snickers, oatmeal, MSR reactor, coffee, jerkey, tuna packets and other candy I carried last time.
Well if anyone has tried the powder way please let me know how it worked for you. The input is useful, I don't tend to overthink any equipment but I'm trying to stay below 35lbs hiking the whole way, with gear on my back weighing 25 currently.
Please try this and report back. There is only one little problem with your plan. You have to fuel your body especially for a fast hike. There is no way you are going to get enough calories in 1.1 lbs of food. Even if it was pure fat you still bonk doing anything close to high miles.
Perhas some of you have heard that 80% of samples of nutritional supplements purchased as part of an investigation had absolutely no quantity of the labeled ingredients. That would be 0%, zilch, nada. I'll stick to real food.
Exposed to air in the container, the powdered nutrients are depleted, then?
Rocket Jones
02-08-2015, 18:21
No. The manufacturers are flat out lying about the ingredients. A lot of cheap filler crap like wheat dust is used instead.
If I decide to have a powdered nutritional supplement, I will make it for myself!
I am thinking one to sprinkle on an entree, and, another as a flavored drink.
I have been thinking along these lines, because I think I will hike the PNT this year. I really do not want to rely on fast food, mom and pops convenience stores and mail drops.
I would like to see the miles I can do out of my backpack.