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comanche8f
01-22-2015, 12:30
I am at 22lbs without food and clothing. Is that an acceptable weight?

I have tried to go as light as I can, but I was hoping to be about 5lbs lighter at this point.

Part of my reasoning is I chose a heavier pack at 4lbs 11oz. I know there are lighter ones, but I feel that on meets my needs more, so I accepted the extra 1lb and a half over the ULA that I was thinking about.
Also, I can't use feathers, so I had to go synthetic for my sleeping bag which weighs close to 3lbs, and my tent is 1lb 15oz. So it is just over the 9lbs that I was hoping for my big three. So with that said, anyone think I am too heavy?

mankind117
01-22-2015, 13:00
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your hike isn't going to succeed or fail whether you base weight is 22 pounds or 15 pounds. There is no acceptable or unacceptable weight. If you can and are willing to carry it then it is fine, HYOH don't let the ultralight evangelists tell you otherwise. Lots of people have done long hikes with more weight than that . . .

That said,
I'm assuming that 22 pounds includes some clothing, you just meant that doesn't include the clothing you are wearing during hiking? Can you give a gear list. I bet there are a few things not in the big 3 you probably don't need if you have 13 pounds of gear not in the big 3.

Connie
01-22-2015, 13:12
I think all the "helpful advice" is to get you below 30 lbs. or below the weight where you can hike with your head up and look around and be aware of your surroundings, rather than plod the trail head down.

That is the goal.

The most lightweight packs available state the load limit of that backpack.

I consider a lightweight backpack to be 2.5 lbs.

I would rather carry no more than 20-25 lbs.

I balk at having to carry 30 lbs. because I want hiking to be enjoyable. I will do it, but only for an approach trail.

Tuckahoe
01-22-2015, 13:24
Your tent, pack and sleeping bag are what you've got and no reason to keep fretting over those. Examine the rest of your gear and consider what changes you can make there. For me it was little things like dropping from my pack items I really didn't need or hadn't use for a while. I switched from two metal water bottles at 4 oz each to two 20oz soda bottles at 1oz each. And then went from the 11oz water filter/pump to the 2oz mini Sawyer filter. It was this sort of small changes that I was able to shed some pack weight.

yerbyray
01-22-2015, 13:48
The AT has been successfully hiked since the late 1940's with packs that weigh much more than what you have. Don't let Homeless Superheros (Ultralighters as they dress like superheros[tights & shorts] and carry gear of homeless folks [beer can pots, plastic tarps, etc.] convince you that you must go their way.
To accomplish the AT one must have the right mindset. If you have reservations when you start out that you are carrying too much or not enough; you are going to have problems. The trail will tell you what you need and don't need.

Havana
01-22-2015, 13:49
I don't think your pack weight is unreasonable as long as you can carry it readily. When I started doing section hikes (I haven't done a thru) I would routinely carry between 30-35 lbs. I figured out over time how to make that a lot lighter but you have to start somewhere and you're going to have plenty of time to figure things out.

Hotspot
01-22-2015, 13:55
I'm still trying to figure out my set up completely, but I have pretty much honed in on what works for me and what doesn't. You're definitely limited if you can't use any sort of down, and swapping out tents wouldn't help remarkably. So I guess just accept that your big 3 won't be your big weight savers and cut weight in other places. Without knowing your gear, no one will really be able to help you with the rest of your load out.

Don't worry too much about your gear. If you can handle the weight MENTALLY and still enjoy your hike, then that is what is important. Stay warm and dry, and most importantly, ENJOY YOUR VACATION!

Sarcasm the elf
01-22-2015, 14:32
I am at 22lbs without food and clothing. Is that an acceptable weight? Honestly that is a question that only you can answer. Put it on your back, go for a hike and see if it is acceptable to you.

Keep in mind that the pack weight of the average thru hiker that I've met on the trail is substantially higher than the average pack weight I've seen bragged about on the internet. I would venture to guess that most of the one's i've met in between PA and VT in recent years were probably carrying 25-35lbs. Heck, back in the 1980's and 1990's an average pack weight on the A.T. was probably between 40 and 50 lbs, not that I'd recommend carrying that much, but it does put things in perspective.

comanche8f
01-22-2015, 14:53
I appreciate the responses. I will probably post a gear list later. I know some things I have I "could" give up. I just keep hearing about these people with 25lb packs including food, water, everything. So I was trying to get an average. The pack was the hardest for me, like I said, it is heavy for a pack, about 4lb 11oz. I know there are other packs, that are even cheaper, but I chose this one for my personal liking. I was really considering the ULA circuit or catalyst , due to their popularity, and weight, but in the end I had to go with something I liked more, and mostly, I like pockets and I am rough on packs, so I need one to hold up. I just weighed everything, without food or water, and I am actually right at 20lbs. So I am thinking right around 30 when all is said and done.

I am use to carrying 40-50lb packs, but on flat ground and only for a day or so, so big difference.
As far as mentality is concerned, I will finish no matter what. I am walking to bring awareness to veteran suicide. Also for personal reasons, so I will finish. I would just like to enjoy my walk instead of wishing I didn't have a pack on. So I just didn't know what weight the average thru hiker was carrying

slovakiasteph
01-22-2015, 14:56
That's not unreasonable for a Big 3 number. I would wonder... what else do you have in that pack?

Other than my big 3, my other stuff:
sleeping pad and pillow, 20 oz
kitchen stuff, water bottles, etc. abt 20 oz (plus fuel)
a misc. bag with tp, headlamp
library stuff: book, maps, etc.
toiletries, first aid: 10 oz

My clothes (~40 oz including poncho) and food (abt. 1.5 lbs/day) are the heaviest items outside of the Big 3, though, so that's where your weight will come in and add up quickly! You might post a gear list so we can see if you have any unnecessary items.

slovakiasteph
01-22-2015, 14:58
Oh, and regarding pack weight...I started with a Golite Jam, a very lightweight pack. I now use a pack about a pound heavier than that-- but it fits me better and is more comfortable. So, a more comfortable pack is more important than a lighter one for me.

q-tip
01-22-2015, 15:43
I have a number of gear list spreadsheets that got me from 40 lbs to 13-15 lbs. If interested send me a pm with your email (large files) . Good luck....

runt13
01-22-2015, 15:47
I am not going to even weigh my pack and gear, nope!

I will / am just going to buy comfortable, durable, quality gear and use it. I will keep it as minimal as I feel comfortable and run with it.

if I notice I don't use something I will get rid of it, if I feel I need something I will add it.

Being a hunter that does a lot of overnights [sometimes for 3 or 4 days] it all becomes irrelevant when you add the carrying of a ten plus pounds of gun and ammo. Just the fact that I will not have that extra weight will be enough for me!

RUNT ''13''

Connie
01-22-2015, 16:58
My 3-season pack includes my 16 oz. JetBoil. I even carry a digital camera.

With my relaxed-fit tights, silkweghts bottoms and Icebreaker top, etal. and cuben "plastic" tarp before food, water, and fuel total is 13.1 lbs. for my 3-season backpack. I am not starting out on snow, however.

There is no reason to for me shiver, nevertheless, if the temperature drops to 20 F.

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22273

I am looking more to add a rain wear, perhaps a LightHeart Gear Rain Skirt and Hoodie Pack cover.

comanche8f
01-22-2015, 17:11
My 3-season pack includes my 16 oz. JetBoil. I even carry a digital camera.

With my relaxed-fit tights, silkweghts bottoms and Icebreaker top, etal. and cuben "plastic" tarp before food, water, and fuel total is 13.1 lbs. for my 3-season backpack. I am not starting out on snow, however.

There is no reason to for me shiver, nevertheless, if the temperature drops to 20 F.

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22273

I am looking more to add a rain wear, perhaps a LightHeart Gear Rain Skirt and Hoodie Pack cover.



Nice chart, and dang, I can't come close to that

colorado_rob
01-22-2015, 17:17
PLEASE, don't let the heavyweights on here try to talk you out of reducing your weight. Sure, lots of folks have been "successful" with heavy packs, but your odds improve with a lighter, but still fully-equipped pack, and what's much more important, the lighter the pack the happier you are on the trail, er, hiking. Wanna have fun? Reduce your pack weight. Lots of grumpy-gus's out there who wind up being "successful" but are not particularly happy when hiking.

You're big 3 really ain't all that bad considering your pack's weight and your non-down restriction, work on the other junk, and see what you can do.

Connie
01-22-2015, 17:29
We haven't seen your list.

At 20 lbs. you are ahead of a lot of people on their weight carried.

I will tell you: I found out about coupons, here, in the forum.

I signed up email with Sierra Trading Post, for example; I have combined special offers and coupons. I got 67% off 2 expensive items, one I even sent on an RMA (free return) for a different size.

I paid full retail on few items.

The stores ask for your email, then, send special offers.

REI membership sales are often better then the REI dividends.

Did you seen the video on the front page of my website (see signature: Do more with less)?

I hope you are not carrying a big honking knife w/sheath and Molle gear!

I don't carry a knife.

No big heavy boots lifting 1 lb. or more, at every step?

I wear hiking shoes.

Wolf - 23000
01-22-2015, 23:14
This has been said before, but I'll say it again. Only you can answer the question on if it is acceptable weight. Are you happy with the weight? Can you travel lighter, of course you can. Would you be happier, maybe. Hiking lighter does mean you will make it any more than hiking with extra weight will give you less of a chance. The trail has been done will less than a 5 pound baseweight where others have hiked with 65 pounds the whole way. Bottom line is what do you want from your hike? If you plan on spending more time camping, then 22 pounds might be a good weight. If you are planning on spend more time hiking and less time camping well then lighten your pack. It really up to you.

Wolf

Feral Bill
01-23-2015, 00:18
I'll take a guess where your excess weight (if any) is.

1. Duplicate clothes
2. "Emergency" gear
3. Cooking gear

Just a thought

MuddyWaters
01-23-2015, 00:20
Dont sweat it.
You will have lots of opportunities to lighten once on trail.
You will figure out what you need ,dont, and want to replace by Hot Springs.

Jake2c
01-23-2015, 00:28
Actually, I don't know how people get as light as some at least claim and yet carry enough stuff to be comfortable on the AT. Counting food and water along with everything else if I am at around 30lbs for the winter that is about as good as I am going to get but I am probably going to be closer to 35 right after a re-supply. In the summer I can probably carve of 3-5lbs off. I don't find UL packs comfortable, maybe because I am older.

Feral Bill
01-23-2015, 00:44
Actually, I don't know how people get as light as some at least claim and yet carry enough stuff to be comfortable on the AT. Counting food and water along with everything else if I am at around 30lbs for the winter that is about as good as I am going to get but I am probably going to be closer to 35 right after a re-supply. In the summer I can probably carve of 3-5lbs off. I don't find UL packs comfortable, maybe because I am older.

I suspect some people do not count the clothes on their backs. That could easily be several pounds.

Connie
01-23-2015, 01:10
My list at post #14 is real. The Big Four are light weight and low volume selections for 20 F. The backpack is heavy duty: I need to be able to "bushwack" parts of the PNT. There could be many days of 100% rain. The layers work especially well. I have yet to add in rain gear. This part of Montana is dry, except for sudden and brief rain. I am considering adding rain gear appropriate for parts of the Pacific Northwest Trail. Because I lived in cold wet and rainy Western Washington state, I have a good idea of effective rain gear. I will add a rain cape of LightHeart Gear Hoodie Pack Cover and the Rain Skirt, plus the tough Exped Rain Chaps. That will not bring up the total weight much. The total weight does include clothing worn and items carried in pockets.

I think anyone can "dial in" their gear. There are people to help to find the right questions for individual needs and wants, along with answers.

Traveler
01-23-2015, 08:00
Actually, I don't know how people get as light as some at least claim and yet carry enough stuff to be comfortable on the AT. Counting food and water along with everything else if I am at around 30lbs for the winter that is about as good as I am going to get but I am probably going to be closer to 35 right after a re-supply. In the summer I can probably carve of 3-5lbs off. I don't find UL packs comfortable, maybe because I am older.

Some folks chase the lowest weight, some chase the fastest time, others chase the perpetual party, its all about what you want to do. I too prefer packs having more structure and padding than UL packs may offer, I don't mind the slight weight penalty for comfort. 30-35lbs is pretty typical weight for multi day hikes with water and food based on what I see here, some being a little over that, some being below. If you can carry it comfortably and it does not interfere with your pace or enjoyment, its perfect for you.

daddytwosticks
01-23-2015, 08:09
Lots of people tell "fibs" about their pack weight...it's like fishing and sex. :)

rocketsocks
01-23-2015, 08:13
Lots of people tell "fibs" about their pack weight...it's like fishing and sex. :)
This

...and there comfort level with regard to ultralight packs with no stays, it's like carrying a laundry bag.

Traveler
01-23-2015, 08:29
This

...and there comfort level with regard to ultralight packs with no stays, it's like carrying a laundry bag.

One of the only times I got blisters from a pack...

rocketsocks
01-23-2015, 08:34
One of the only times I got blisters from a pack...
Yup, I need a little structure and form fit to eliminte pressure points. Perhaps some have different anatomy than there other human counter parts.

q-tip
01-23-2015, 12:44
One other thought, mentally it was really critical for me to know when I was slogging up mountains that I wasn't carrying any extra stuff. Without a doubt it was the mental challenge and enduring the daily rigors of hiking that became the greatest challenge. I committed to Springer to Harpers Ferry after being dead on an OR table in 2008, the last 200 miles were all mental. Stopping was just not an option, so I understand the motivation regarding the veteran's tragedy.

Also, I lost 30 pounds and trained for four months in advance of my trip. That alone helped to get my mind right.

Frye
01-23-2015, 18:52
@comanche8f (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php/56319-comanche8f), If you get the chance post your list. Perhaps I can help you out a bit.

Cambridge still suck? I used to live off of Washington st. In Centreville now. =D

Frye
01-23-2015, 18:58
Lots of people tell "fibs" about their pack weight...it's like fishing and sex. :)

Who are you talking to that is lying about pack weight? There just seems like so much better stuff to lie about.

No matter what though, it's nothing like sex.

comanche8f
01-23-2015, 19:33
I'll take a guess where your excess weight (if any) is.

1. Duplicate clothes
2. "Emergency" gear
3. Cooking gear

Just a thought


That would be a big negative. That weight does not include clothes, my emergency gear is a lighter. My cooking gear , utensils, sponge, soap, pots and cup weigh a total of 1lb.

I will post a list of everything once I get it all sorted out. I am trying to shave some here and there. Once I get to the final list I will post it. It is amazing how 4oz here and 4oz there adds up to 5lbs

Malto
01-23-2015, 22:43
]I am at 22lbs without food and clothing. Is that an acceptable weight?[/B]

I have tried to go as light as I can, but I was hoping to be about 5lbs lighter at this point.

Part of my reasoning is I chose a heavier pack at 4lbs 11oz. I know there are lighter ones, but I feel that on meets my needs more, so I accepted the extra 1lb and a half over the ULA that I was thinking about.
Also, I can't use feathers, so I had to go synthetic for my sleeping bag which weighs close to 3lbs, and my tent is 1lb 15oz. So it is just over the 9lbs that I was hoping for my big three. So with that said, anyone think I am too heavy?

When you put your pack on, can you hike the distance with the comfort that you like? If yes, then it is acceptable. if no then it's not. It makes no difference what others think is acceptable, you have to carry the the weight.

bigcranky
01-23-2015, 23:18
Who are you talking to that is lying about pack weight? There just seems like so much better stuff to lie about.

No matter what though, it's nothing like sex.

Nobody is lying flat out about pack weight. But it's very easy to get in the mind set of "got to have a ten pound base" and conveniently leave out things from the list, like stuff in my pockets, or my heavy jacket, or whatever.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

MuddyWaters
01-23-2015, 23:31
Its very easy to have a light pack today, if you spend the money to get it.
You can have everything you need, with durability being the only compromise.
A little extra care, goes a long way.

Most people just plain carry stuff thats not essential, or needed.

I cant bring myself to carry anything thats not essential, totally different mindset.

Connie
01-23-2015, 23:50
I didn't compromise durability: I have a 3.9 lb. pack and a JetBoil for my 3-season PNT hike.

I have great quality gear. http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22273

I lack raingear, but the raingear I am considering is LightHeart Gear Hoodie Pack Cover and Rain Skirt. I have my lightweight tarp for a "rain wrap" and those other items should suffice while I pitch the tarp.

Lightweight great gear is real, nowadays, without having to be the rich kid at the forum.

Jake2c
01-24-2015, 00:03
One other thought, mentally it was really critical for me to know when I was slogging up mountains that I wasn't carrying any extra stuff. Without a doubt it was the mental challenge and enduring the daily rigors of hiking that became the greatest challenge. I committed to Springer to Harpers Ferry after being dead on an OR table in 2008, the last 200 miles were all mental. Stopping was just not an option, so I understand the motivation regarding the veteran's tragedy.

Also, I lost 30 pounds and trained for four months in advance of my trip. That alone helped to get my mind right.

I agree. Over my career and traveling the world I had to overcome some very stiff challenges. Without a doubt the deciding factor was my attitude. I have seen it over and over. If knocking some weight off improves attitude then it's probably a good move.

MuddyWaters
01-24-2015, 11:32
I didn't compromise durability: I have a 3.9 lb. pack and a JetBoil for my 3-season PNT hike.




Neoair, polycro, 10d-15d fabrics, are all very much fragile .

Yes, you did compromise a great deal of durability.

I do too.

It takes a bit of extra care to make these items not get damaged. Thats part of it. That was my point.

70D sleeping pads, tyvek, heavier quilt fabrics are all less fragile, but heavier.

Connie
01-24-2015, 11:47
This is 15D? It is tough!

The argon fabric 20 F sleeping quilt lives inside my Titanium Goat Bug Bivy. It think the ground cloth there is 30D. It is heavy and tough. I thought I would have the polycryo as "extra" to help keep it all clean.

A total klutze can destroy any gear, nevertheless, your point is well-taken.

I think this is an adage for hikers: "take care of your gear and it will take care of you".

For me, it is right up there with "take care of your feet and your feet will take care of you".

I think I first heard that in Basic Training in the United State Army.

I don't need to drag my gear under barb wire. However, I did purchase a backpack to stand up to "puckerbrush".

comanche8f
01-25-2015, 00:08
This is 15D? It is tough!

The argon fabric 20 F sleeping quilt lives inside my Titanium Goat Bug Bivy. It think the ground cloth there is 30D. It is heavy and tough. I thought I would have the polycryo as "extra" to help keep it all clean.

A total klutze can destroy any gear, nevertheless, your point is well-taken.

I think this is an adage for hikers: "take care of your gear and it will take care of you".

For me, it is right up there with "take care of your feet and your feet will take care of you".

I think I first heard that in Basic Training in the United State Army.

I don't need to drag my gear under barb wire. However, I did purchase a backpack to stand up to "puckerbrush".


I got the 30D solong6, not sure what all these numbers mean. It is really light, but if feels like a poncho. A little worried about the humidity in it, but we shall see. I am not sure it will make the whole hike.

Tuckahoe
01-25-2015, 00:22
Denier is a unit of measure for fibers -- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denier_(unit)

Hydrostatic Head is a measure of waterproofness -- http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/hydrostatic-head.asp

Connie
01-25-2015, 00:27
As far as I am concerned, there has never been better choices of lightweight gear.

My hand-me-down years of old scouting gear, military surplus, and heavy-duty hunting/fishing gear are behind me, right now, and, I like it.


comanche8f,

I think any tent can get condensation: if condensation is a problem, a cut-down ShamWow absorbes moisture. Many people use a bandana. I prefer maximum absorbtion and hanging the cloth off my backpack. There are little camp towels sold with a loop and a snap. That idea.

I have had a tarp get condensation on the inside surface.

Connie
01-25-2015, 01:47
"Also, I can't use feathers, so I had to go synthetic for my sleeping bag which weighs close to 3lbs, and my tent is 1lb 15oz. So it is just over the 9lbs that I was hoping for my big three. So with that said, anyone think I am too heavy?"

Do you have your 3 lb. sleeping bag?

Has anyone here have experience with an Enlightened Equipment synthetic sleeping quilt? http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy/

Frye
01-25-2015, 10:39
I got the 30D solong6, not sure what all these numbers mean. It is really light, but if feels like a poncho. A little worried about the humidity in it, but we shall see. I am not sure it will make the whole hike.

You shouldn't have an issue with the solong. It's a great tent. I've played with quite a few and would own one myself if I didn't miss out on the cuben version. Really I don't remember ever hearing someone complain about it. It's also one of the better hybrid designs, so condensation will be minimal, but in the end you will get some as it is a hybrid and not a true double wall.

comanche8f
01-25-2015, 15:17
"Also, I can't use feathers, so I had to go synthetic for my sleeping bag which weighs close to 3lbs, and my tent is 1lb 15oz. So it is just over the 9lbs that I was hoping for my big three. So with that said, anyone think I am too heavy?"

Do you have your 3 lb. sleeping bag?

Has anyone here have experience with an Enlightened Equipment synthetic sleeping quilt? http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy/



No experience, but here is the review from outdoor gear lab..

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Enlightened-Equipment-Prodigy

smoothsailin
02-09-2015, 18:13
Mags says it all http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi
Don't be a pack sniffer....25-30 lbs is acceptable for most anyone and enough lbs to cover what you need.

Wolf - 23000
02-09-2015, 18:46
Mags says it all http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi
Don't be a pack sniffer....25-30 lbs is acceptable for most anyone and enough lbs to cover what you need.

Mag says in his website, "If your pack weights more than 20 lbs, you are obviously not hiking efficiently and are a pack sniffer. You need to lighten your load!" He said nothing about "25-30 lbs is acceptable" in the site your quoting.

25 - 30 lbs is acceptable for you, not everyone likes to carry that much. A thru-hiker for example who weight is 100 pounds, is going to notice a 25 - 30 lbs on their back.

Wolf

Connie
02-09-2015, 19:52
sniffer?! Or snivler?!

Jacks R Better has the Sierra Snivler.

Lightweight. Multiple use (can be worn like a jacket, especially so with oversize DWR rainwear shell or anorak).

CondensedFun
02-09-2015, 23:57
Mag says in his website, "If your pack weights more than 20 lbs, you are obviously not hiking efficiently and are a pack sniffer. You need to lighten your load!" He said nothing about "25-30 lbs is acceptable" in the site your quoting.

25 - 30 lbs is acceptable for you, not everyone likes to carry that much. A thru-hiker for example who weight is 100 pounds, is going to notice a 25 - 30 lbs on their back.

That article is satire. The implication of that quote is that 20+ lbs is acceptable to anyone that chooses to hike their own hike with 20+ lbs. A thru-hiker who weighs 100 pounds will notice a 25-30 lbs bag on their bag, but they'll also probably travel at a slower pace and spend more time at camp. And hey, camp should be awfully comfy for them at that weight. HYOH means 25-30 lbs is acceptable to anyone, as long as they hike their own hike and not someone else's hike.

Here's another fun quote from the article:


"Apparently, what stove you bring is almost as important as what knife you bring. On the trail, you must boil water. If you don’t bring the correct stove, you will not boil water the correct way! If you do not bring the correct stove, you will obviously not enjoy the wonders of nature, the vistas and the camaraderie of your fellow hikers."

Anyway, perhaps you'll take the time to re-read the article while taking its intended tone into consideration.

The Kisco Kid
02-10-2015, 11:26
Comanche - I think your 22 pound packweight is a pretty good start. Yeah people have hiked the trail with big loads--I once had near 60 in the Whites, and Himalayan Expeditions hired 500 porters to carry their gear to basecamp in the 1960's. But, with advances in gear today there's little reason to carry more than 20 pounds baseweight as a backpacker.

You've hit the nail on the head on where to save weight: your pack and your sleeping bag. I highly recommend reading Ray Jardine's book "Trail Life" (previously titled Beyond Backpacking). Jardine is arguably the one who started the whole ultralight backpacking craze.

His main thesis: you save weight on the big 4: tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and backpack. This is where you start. For instance, you would have to saw the handle off a thousand toothbrushes to equal the weight saving of going from my old North Face Snow Leopard (8 1/2 pounds) to my current pack Gossamer Gear Murmur (12 ozs). Leave the little stuff for last.

You correctly deduced that your backpack is too heavy. IT IS! I don't care how much you "like the way it feels." It's just justification for something you know needs to be ditched. Second, think about getting a summer (45 degree) bag for the warmer months (or down--Zpacks 20 degree is one pound!) What's wrong with down? It's light! Buy a drybag!

Your 4 lb 11 oz pack is 3 pounds too heavy. Your 3 lb sleeping bag is at least a pound too heavy. BAM! That's four pounds right there. Check out Gossamer Gear's packs, or the GoLite Jam, or ZPacks.

DO NOT LISTEN to people who tell you to carry less clothing! (Aside from town clothes.) Your life depends on your ability to protect and insulate yourself from the elements. An ultralight backpack that is slightly uncomfortable? Definitely not life threatening. Not having enough clothing however could subject you to hypothermia. A improperly equipped backpacker died in the Smokies last winter.

It's taken me years to go ultralight (I carry 11 pounds with everything except food and water). You're well ahead of where I was, and with two simple changes you're off to a running start.

Cheers,
-The Kisco Kid

Frye
02-10-2015, 11:59
@Marcovee, I totally agree with your clothing statement. Anyone who tells you to carry less clothing needs to be ignored.

Now if someone tries to teach you how to properly layer as a means to reduce overall weight, then you should take notice. UL isn't just about packing less, it's about packing smart.

On a side note I can't help but like anyone who uses the word 'deduce'. As an avid Doyle fan it brings a smile to my face.

CarlZ993
02-10-2015, 12:30
My 3-season pack includes my 16 oz. JetBoil. I even carry a digital camera.

With my relaxed-fit tights, silkweghts bottoms and Icebreaker top, etal. and cuben "plastic" tarp before food, water, and fuel total is 13.1 lbs. for my 3-season backpack. I am not starting out on snow, however.

There is no reason to for me shiver, nevertheless, if the temperature drops to 20 F.

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22273

I am looking more to add a rain wear, perhaps a LightHeart Gear Rain Skirt and Hoodie Pack cover.
Looks like a few items on your Geargrams list weigh 0 oz (down anorak, first aid stuff, etc).

CarlZ993
02-10-2015, 12:46
I find that creating a spreadsheet (Excel or Google Docs) is the best way to whittle down my pack weight. I weigh everything. If I had an option to take either item 'A' or item 'B,' I generally take the lightest. Also, look for items that you can omit (an extra something or another, an item that can pull double-duty will allow you to leave something else, etc). I concentrate on the 'Base Pack Weight' (everything except food, fuel, & water, aka consumables). I'll sometimes splurge on food weight but I eat my meals in the order of heaviest to lightest.

I opt to go as light as possible while being safe for the conditions I expect. This allows me to add a few lightweight luxury items that aren't absolutely necessary (1 oz wash basin, GPS, etc). Being an older hiker (I hate saying that), I really pay attention to my pack weight these days.

The Kisco Kid
02-10-2015, 13:37
I find that creating a spreadsheet (Excel or Google Docs) is the best way to whittle down my pack weight. I weigh everything.

I second that!

Connie
02-10-2015, 13:44
These are "working lists" I am evaluating for the PNT.

I am also switching off items I have between the lists.

The zero items I haven't assembled to weigh, yet. My first aid kit weight runs 1-2 oz.

I have to purchase small containers to have more first aid for the Pacific Northwest Trail.

The other zero items I am considering purchase.


Edit: Really appalling? The other stuff I have I left off the lists I had "thought" was lightweight.

CalebJ
02-10-2015, 13:48
As to spreadsheets, you can save yourself some time with geargrams.com. You can create an account there and edit your gear lists from anywhere. Makes it very easy to categorize, adjust, and build trip specific checklists. Great tool for planning any trip. You can also share your lists as needed, like so:
http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22677 (http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=18159)

saltysack
02-10-2015, 13:51
sniffer?! Or snivler?!

Jacks R Better has the Sierra Snivler.

Lightweight. Multiple use (can be worn like a jacket, especially so with oversize DWR rainwear shell or anorak).

It's great quilt.....for me 50 deg or warmer....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wolf - 23000
02-10-2015, 14:46
That article is satire. The implication of that quote is that 20+ lbs is acceptable to anyone that chooses to hike their own hike with 20+ lbs. A thru-hiker who weighs 100 pounds will notice a 25-30 lbs bag on their bag, but they'll also probably travel at a slower pace and spend more time at camp. And hey, camp should be awfully comfy for them at that weight. HYOH means 25-30 lbs is acceptable to anyone, as long as they hike their own hike and not someone else's hike.

Here's another fun quote from the article:


"Apparently, what stove you bring is almost as important as what knife you bring. On the trail, you must boil water. If you don’t bring the correct stove, you will not boil water the correct way! If you do not bring the correct stove, you will obviously not enjoy the wonders of nature, the vistas and the camaraderie of your fellow hikers."

Anyway, perhaps you'll take the time to re-read the article while taking its intended tone into consideration.

CondensedFun,

Your entitle to your opinion on Mag's article. I’m going to reserve mine because I disagree with Mag range on the other end of what should be considered as acceptable weights and some other topics.

I will say you are incorrect in some parts of your post. I've seen hikers around the 100 pound mark, that were very strong hikers even carrying 25 - 35 pounds on their back. They might surprise you. The weight of your pack does not determine your pace. Most people can carry 100 pounds on their backs for short distance but for long distance they are going to have to break more often. It affects your duration – how long someone is able to hike.
I personal like to hike where I don’t notice a pack on my back. There have been several times that I had to check and put my hand on my back just to make sure I still had a backpack on.

Wolf

CondensedFun
02-11-2015, 08:37
Wolf,

I didn't intend to provide an opinion on Mag's article. I was just trying to point out that the implication of the line you quoted was basically opposite of what it appeared to be on the surface because the article was intended to be satire.

comanche8f
02-11-2015, 09:32
Comanche - I think your 22 pound packweight is a pretty good start. Yeah people have hiked the trail with big loads--I once had near 60 in the Whites, and Himalayan Expeditions hired 500 porters to carry their gear to basecamp in the 1960's. But, with advances in gear today there's little reason to carry more than 20 pounds baseweight as a backpacker.

You've hit the nail on the head on where to save weight: your pack and your sleeping bag. I highly recommend reading Ray Jardine's book "Trail Life" (previously titled Beyond Backpacking). Jardine is arguably the one who started the whole ultralight backpacking craze.

His main thesis: you save weight on the big 4: tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and backpack. This is where you start. For instance, you would have to saw the handle off a thousand toothbrushes to equal the weight saving of going from my old North Face Snow Leopard (8 1/2 pounds) to my current pack Gossamer Gear Murmur (12 ozs). Leave the little stuff for last.

You correctly deduced that your backpack is too heavy. IT IS! I don't care how much you "like the way it feels." It's just justification for something you know needs to be ditched. Second, think about getting a summer (45 degree) bag for the warmer months (or down--Zpacks 20 degree is one pound!) What's wrong with down? It's light! Buy a drybag!

Your 4 lb 11 oz pack is 3 pounds too heavy. Your 3 lb sleeping bag is at least a pound too heavy. BAM! That's four pounds right there. Check out Gossamer Gear's packs, or the GoLite Jam, or ZPacks.

DO NOT LISTEN to people who tell you to carry less clothing! (Aside from town clothes.) Your life depends on your ability to protect and insulate yourself from the elements. An ultralight backpack that is slightly uncomfortable? Definitely not life threatening. Not having enough clothing however could subject you to hypothermia. A improperly equipped backpacker died in the Smokies last winter.

It's taken me years to go ultralight (I carry 11 pounds with everything except food and water). You're well ahead of where I was, and with two simple changes you're off to a running start.

Cheers,
-The Kisco Kid

Appreciate it. My sleeping bag is as heavy as it is because I cannot use down. So I have to use synthetic. Like we both have said, my pack is too heavy, but I am going to stick with it. It is the new Osprey AG, and I love how it feels, it feels a lot lighter than it is. My sleeping pad is 12oz, and I have probably upped the weight of my tent by going with a hubba hubba instead of a solong.

So yeah, pretty much going the wrong direction. I like room and comfort in my tent though. I have decided , after reading everyones inputs, as long as with food and water I am in the 30-35lb range I will be good.

I would love to have a 11lb pack, but I don't see it for this trip.

I am leaving in less than a month, so yes, I will have more clothing than I would have if waiting another month. I will have warmth for my trip through TN/NC. Once I get to VA, or a little bit into it, I will ditch the heavier sleeping bag for one that I already own that is half the weight. Plus most of my winter clothing. So I will only get lighter as I go. I guess the good thing is, once I make it to VA with a heavier pack, the rest of the trip with a bit lighter pack should be a breeze.

Wolf - 23000
02-11-2015, 19:41
Wolf,

I didn't intend to provide an opinion on Mag's article. I was just trying to point out that the implication of the line you quoted was basically opposite of what it appeared to be on the surface because the article was intended to be satire.

I'll agree with you on that point. Your post just came across as quoting Mag for something he did not say in his article. Mag and me have gone rounds a few times (not trying to start anything now), I just wanted to make sure he is not misquoted.

Wolf

comanche8f
02-11-2015, 21:32
Oh, and I chose the Hubba Hubba over the Solong because it can be freestanding, easier on platforms and easier overall. Doubled the weight, but if I am stuck in the tent for a day, then I would like to at least be somewhat comfy

brancher
02-12-2015, 06:44
I've read most of the posts here (and skipped the contentious ones), nd I think you have a great start. If money is available, you may wanna look at he EE synthetic quilts, or perhaps pick up a lighter synthetic bag with a Sea to Summit liner (or silk liner). I use a JRB quilt at 19 oz and supplement with a liner when needed (and layer up when needed as well. I do agree that you may want to examine your 'other-than-big-three' gear for redundancies, unnecessary weight, etc, and you may find a couple of lbs. that way.

Over many years, I have gone from a 35-plus backpack that was way too large (the corollary of which is that if you have a big pack, you will fill it up) to a 10-12 lb base weight depending on season - that transition took awhile and in the process I was able to pinpoint what was really important to me. 2-person tents, non-freestanding, homemade, hammocks, and on and on...... For example, I did the soda-can stove thing for awhile, the trangia thing, the titanium thing, but eventually realized that for me, my anodized aluminum pot and ul canister stove is what I really like to carry - and I don't care if it weighs 3 oz more than the Bud Lite crowd. (In fact, it's kinda fun watching some of those folks attempt to light their alky setups in subfreezing temps while I sip my cup of nice, hot Earl Grey.... ahem, uh, sorry..).

These days, it's a 10X10 tarp or my Tarptent Moment DW, a silnylon poncho/groundcloth, some aluminum gutter nails, a quilt, and my beloved ULA. Point is, going lighter is a process, not a snapshot, and you need to carry what you are comfy with and are willing to tote. Just start walking, have some fun, don't hold yourself to some artificial bar for mileage or weight, and your body (and the trail) will tell you what you really need.

One last thing: Effective Layering is Next to Godliness.

Hope this helps.

bemental
02-12-2015, 09:13
I appreciate the responses. I will probably post a gear list later. I know some things I have I "could" give up. I just keep hearing about these people with 25lb packs including food, water, everything. So I was trying to get an average. The pack was the hardest for me, like I said, it is heavy for a pack, about 4lb 11oz. I know there are other packs, that are even cheaper, but I chose this one for my personal liking. I was really considering the ULA circuit or catalyst , due to their popularity, and weight, but in the end I had to go with something I liked more, and mostly, I like pockets and I am rough on packs, so I need one to hold up. I just weighed everything, without food or water, and I am actually right at 20lbs. So I am thinking right around 30 when all is said and done.

I am use to carrying 40-50lb packs, but on flat ground and only for a day or so, so big difference.
As far as mentality is concerned, I will finish no matter what. I am walking to bring awareness to veteran suicide. Also for personal reasons, so I will finish. I would just like to enjoy my walk instead of wishing I didn't have a pack on. So I just didn't know what weight the average thru hiker was carrying

As a vet who's considered suicide, I appreciate you.

comanche8f
02-12-2015, 17:53
As a vet who's considered suicide, I appreciate you.


I appreciate you as well. Glad you are still with us

comanche8f
02-12-2015, 17:59
I've read most of the posts here (and skipped the contentious ones), nd I think you have a great start. If money is available, you may wanna look at he EE synthetic quilts, or perhaps pick up a lighter synthetic bag with a Sea to Summit liner (or silk liner). I use a JRB quilt at 19 oz and supplement with a liner when needed (and layer up when needed as well. I do agree that you may want to examine your 'other-than-big-three' gear for redundancies, unnecessary weight, etc, and you may find a couple of lbs. that way.

Over many years, I have gone from a 35-plus backpack that was way too large (the corollary of which is that if you have a big pack, you will fill it up) to a 10-12 lb base weight depending on season - that transition took awhile and in the process I was able to pinpoint what was really important to me. 2-person tents, non-freestanding, homemade, hammocks, and on and on...... For example, I did the soda-can stove thing for awhile, the trangia thing, the titanium thing, but eventually realized that for me, my anodized aluminum pot and ul canister stove is what I really like to carry - and I don't care if it weighs 3 oz more than the Bud Lite crowd. (In fact, it's kinda fun watching some of those folks attempt to light their alky setups in subfreezing temps while I sip my cup of nice, hot Earl Grey.... ahem, uh, sorry..).

These days, it's a 10X10 tarp or my Tarptent Moment DW, a silnylon poncho/groundcloth, some aluminum gutter nails, a quilt, and my beloved ULA. Point is, going lighter is a process, not a snapshot, and you need to carry what you are comfy with and are willing to tote. Just start walking, have some fun, don't hold yourself to some artificial bar for mileage or weight, and your body (and the trail) will tell you what you really need.

One last thing: Effective Layering is Next to Godliness.

Hope this helps.

Sound advice, thank you. Yeah , I have thought about the sleeping bag thing. Just not knowing the weather in the Smokey's I have decided to keep this one until I get to the other side of them. I have a number of bags that are much lighter. I also Have a few other comfy items I will be sending back in VA as well. So I will lose some weight then.

As far as the tent. I have hammocks and tried tarps. In the end though, I really like a spacious tent as well as the bug net. I agree with you about the larger pack. The idea was I wouldn't have stuff hanging all over the outside, but as it is, I find myself already ditching stuff because it won't fit. So yeah....

bemental
02-12-2015, 18:14
Mind if I hijack this thread?

bemental: V1 Gear List (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/417848/bemental%20-%20v1.png)

29913

bemental
02-12-2015, 19:03
Maybe I should explain myself(?):

I'm hiking for healing, and coming from a strong military background (12 years as a US Marine Infantryman). My gear is a hodgepodge of older hiking equipment (Pack, 10 yr old Osprey Eclipse 42 + 5; similar age Mountain Hardware Polarguard 3D bag), some essential-to-me military gear (british tarp, ISO Mat), and brand new gear that I've purchased in the past 2-3 weeks after realizing I'll be able to hike this year (just got my medical retirement date a few weeks ago).

Additionally, I'm testing out a renewable energy theory, which revolves around strapping a small GoalZero panel to my ServiceDog all day, a 17,000mAh rechargeable battery, and my iPhone, rechargeable headlamp, and whatever else I decide to bring that plugs in.

Be as deliberately critical as you'd like, but keep these tenets in mind please!

bemental
02-12-2015, 19:51
And, of course I just found out how to share the GearGrams link directly:

bemental - V1 (http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=22719)

comanche8f
02-12-2015, 20:54
Mind if I hijack this thread?

bemental: V1 Gear List (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/417848/bemental%20-%20v1.png)

29913



Go for it. I have got all my gear now. Now I just need to figure out what in the heck NOT to take

Connie
02-12-2015, 22:00
Post the items: people will have opinions and, hopefully, will explain their opinion.

comanche8f
02-12-2015, 22:53
Post the items: people will have opinions and, hopefully, will explain their opinion.

I know what I should get rid of. It is just getting rid of it that's the problem. I was in the Army for too long. When you go to the field you take your entire house, it is hard to break that mindset..... Plus there is no option, they tell you what to bring

Hoofit
02-13-2015, 06:56
Appreciate it. My sleeping bag is as heavy as it is because I cannot use down. So I have to use synthetic. Like we both have said, my pack is too heavy, but I am going to stick with it. It is the new Osprey AG, and I love how it feels, it feels a lot lighter than it is. My sleeping pad is 12oz, and I have probably upped the weight of my tent by going with a hubba hubba instead of a solong.

So yeah, pretty much going the wrong direction. I like room and comfort in my tent though. I have decided , after reading everyones inputs, as long as with food and water I am in the 30-35lb range I will be good.

I would love to have a 11lb pack, but I don't see it for this trip.

I am leaving in less than a month, so yes, I will have more clothing than I would have if waiting another month. I will have warmth for my trip through TN/NC. Once I get to VA, or a little bit into it, I will ditch the heavier sleeping bag for one that I already own that is half the weight. Plus most of my winter clothing. So I will only get lighter as I go. I guess the good thing is, once I make it to VA with a heavier pack, the rest of the trip with a bit lighter pack should be a breeze.

The Hubba Hubba is a great tent if you can handle the weight. Very roomy for one and versatile too. Very little condensation, free standing so you can tip it out to clean it and move it around. And tough. I'm sure you'll like it !i hiked about eight hundred miles with one and the only weak point was the bag it came in. Enjoy and good luck with your hike

bemental
02-13-2015, 09:04
Post the items: people will have opinions and, hopefully, will explain their opinion.

Mountain Hardware Polarguard 3D Mummy Sleeping Bag

Specifications:
0 degree - 4 season
POLARGUARD 3D - Continuous Filament Polyester Insulation
Shell: 100% Nylon
Style: 3rd Dimension LARGE
Finish Size: 30" X 84"
Net weight of filling material: 51oz.

Polarguard 3D continuous filament insulation provides continuous comfort and durability, and offers these remarkable advantages:

Superior warmth, without weight
Superior loft, even when wet
Highly compressible
Moisture resistant
Fast drying
Machine washable
Hypo-allergenic
Long lasting
Insulation made of Polarguard 3D offers the ultimate in high performance outerwear and sleeping bags. Polarguard 3D provides more insulation per unit weight than other premium synthetic filling materials

Care Instructions:
Machine wash warm/cold with mild soap. Front load machine only. No bleach. Tumble dry warm. No fabric softener. No heat over 120 degree F. Do not dry clean. Store unstuffed.

bemental
02-13-2015, 09:16
Osprey Eclipse 42 + 5
http://www.technicalbackpacks.com/shop/Osprey-Eclipse-42-5.html
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/osprey/eclipse-42+5/

comanche8f
02-13-2015, 12:33
Osprey Eclipse 42 + 5
http://www.technicalbackpacks.com/shop/Osprey-Eclipse-42-5.html
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/osprey/eclipse-42+5/



Can't find too much on the pack or the sleeping bag. The pack seems heavy for its capacity though. What is the weight on the sleeping bag? Zero rating seems pretty low, but to each their own. You shouldn't get cold, but you will only use if for just over a month of the trip.

comanche8f
02-13-2015, 12:36
The Hubba Hubba is a great tent if you can handle the weight. Very roomy for one and versatile too. Very little condensation, free standing so you can tip it out to clean it and move it around. And tough. I'm sure you'll like it !i hiked about eight hundred miles with one and the only weak point was the bag it came in. Enjoy and good luck with your hike


Appreciate it. I have set it up at the house and slept in it a few times. I really like it for its weight and size. You're right, the bag does suck. I actually broke it up into 3 separate bags, so I don't use the original one anymore. I wanted to be able to pull out the rain cover and the footprint first. Doesn't seem legit setting up a mosquito net in the rain, and then putting the rain cover on. You are just asking to get into a wet tent.

bemental
02-14-2015, 09:11
Can't find too much on the pack or the sleeping bag. The pack seems heavy for its capacity though. What is the weight on the sleeping bag? Zero rating seems pretty low, but to each their own. You shouldn't get cold, but you will only use if for just over a month of the trip.

Thanks for the information, it is on the old side for sure.

Shelter is a the IBNS (http://www.catomaoutdoor.com/catalog/productinfo.aspx?id=155), with a British Army Basha (http://www.armynnavy.com/catalog/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/351/products_id/5788) (Tarp) for rain protection.

Like I said, using what I got (or what I know has worked for me in the past). I figure the bag will provide some needed extra protection until it warms up, where I'll switch to Gortex bivy sack (http://www.goreprotectivefabrics.com/remote/Satellite/Military-Marines-Sleep-Systems/3-Season-Sleep-System-with-GORETEX-Bivy-Cover) and a poncho liner (http://www.surplustodayonline.com/2012/10/23/u-s-military-issue-woodland-camouflage-poncho-liner/) for my sleep system (mail drop).

Cold weather/camp jacket is heavyweight Polartec fleece (http://www.mcguirearmynavy.com/US-Military-USMC-GI-Polartec-Fleece-Jacket-Black.html); I'll switch to the lightweight variant (http://ciehub.info/clothing/CW/ShirtCWPulloverSyntheticFleeceMC.html)when I switch bags.

Some of the gear is heavier than I'd like, but until I get fed up with it I'll roll with it. I figure I'm used to hiking with *considerably* larger constraints and weights, so as long as I keep my total weight under 30-35 lbs w/ food/fuel/water, (I've got dog food and extra water for my service dog) we'll be alright.

Worst case scenario, amazon.com and numerous other retailers are just a click away - even if it costs a premium.

bemental
02-14-2015, 09:17
Can't find too much on the pack or the sleeping bag. The pack seems heavy for its capacity though. What is the weight on the sleeping bag? Zero rating seems pretty low, but to each their own. You shouldn't get cold, but you will only use if for just over a month of the trip.

Sorry, didn't even answer your question!

4.85lbs and 4.31lbs respectively, bag/pack.

comanche8f
02-14-2015, 11:30
Sorry, didn't even answer your question!

4.85lbs and 4.31lbs respectively, bag/pack.


Like I said, to each their own. My bag and pack weigh more than most, but to put it in perspective. Tent/bag/pack is where you make or break your weight. Your 42+5 weighs more than my 68 , which most will say is too large. Also, that is a heavy sleeping bag. I have to use synthetic, my synthetic bag plus a liner weigh 3lbs, which is still heavy.

I am with you though, I can pack more than some , or am willing to pack more should I say, so as long as you're comfortable, that's all that matters.

Connie
02-14-2015, 11:44
The AT also requires balance getting around big boulders and mountaintops. There is scrambling, that is rock climbing with fixed aids and no aids. There is crawling thru rocks and boulders pushing or pulling your pack thru.

Scenes that actually show the "trail" are at YouTube.

Big backpacks, as seen in military service or in the movies, are not carried by backpackers for a reason.

Cheryl Strayed did a section of the trail, if that. Her purpose was not the hike.

If you have good balance and agility with a heavy and bulky backpack, your backpack is okay, that is, if you can get thru the more difficult narrow places and those places that require balance on the AT.

RED-DOG
02-14-2015, 11:47
I am at 10.5lbs without consumables, add 3-5 days of food, 2 32oz bottles of water and 2 4oz MSR canisters and I am at 25lbs.

Connie
02-14-2015, 12:46
One small cannister can go 3-5 days, unless you leave it on, or, perhaps heat hot water for washing up.

I think you might be able to get food weight down, also. There are low weight - low volume food staples.

comanche8f
02-14-2015, 13:38
The AT also requires balance getting around big boulders and mountaintops. There is scrambling, that is rock climbing with fixed aids and no aids. There is crawling thru rocks and boulders pushing or pulling your pack thru.

Scenes that actually show the "trail" are at YouTube.

Big backpacks, as seen in military service or in the movies, are not carried by backpackers for a reason.

Cheryl Strayed did a section of the trail, if that. Her purpose was not the hike.

If you have good balance and agility with a heavy and bulky backpack, your backpack is okay, that is, if you can get thru the more difficult narrow places and those places that require balance on the AT.


I have the new Osprey 65 AG. This thing is awesome. ( http://www.rei.com/product/878452/osprey-atmos-65-ag-ex-pack ) It is 4lb 11oz, but the Anti-gravity makes it feel like it ways less than a pound when it is on your back. The weight disbursement is awesome, so is the way it keeps the frame off your back. So, yeah, I love it.

It will not be a problem taking on boulders, well no more than usual. Up until recent there was no such thing as UL hiking.

People carried much larger, large exterior framed packs. If they could do it, then I sure can do it with this. I could carry a military pack , 8lbs, with 50lbs of gear and make it just fine. I just wouldn't be happy with myself about it.

Just because UL is the way to go these days, doesn't mean that's the only way it can be done. I am out there to enjoy myself, if I need 100lbs to enjoy myself, then that is what I will carry. I do agree that lighter is better, but to an extent, I am not going to saw off my toothbrush handles and cut tags off my shirt to save a few grams.

I am trying to go as light as possible, but I want a bag that I can abuse, that has pockets and is comfortable. I want a tent that I can relax in on a zero day, and I am just SOL on my sleeping bag since I have to use synthetic.

russb
02-14-2015, 14:44
Up until recent there was no such thing as UL hiking.




Actually UL has been around a lot longer than most think. At the turn of the last century the woodsman Horace Kephart and Nessmuk wrote quite a bit about lightweight gear lists. Nessmuk himslef used the term "Go light" decades before the company that bears its name. It wasn't until after WWII when all the heavy old military stuff was used by the average joe. The 60s and 70s began to lighten up with nylon. The external packs of those days were bulky but not very heavy. I still have my external frame pack and it weighs less than 3 lbs. The difference is it can carry more weight than the modern internals. So, the idea that UL is new is not true. It has been around for over 100 years. Most woodsman will progress from heavy to light as they gain knowledge and experience. And some just re-discovered it and think it is new.

comanche8f
02-14-2015, 15:16
Actually UL has been around a lot longer than most think. At the turn of the last century the woodsman Horace Kephart and Nessmuk wrote quite a bit about lightweight gear lists. Nessmuk himslef used the term "Go light" decades before the company that bears its name. It wasn't until after WWII when all the heavy old military stuff was used by the average joe. The 60s and 70s began to lighten up with nylon. The external packs of those days were bulky but not very heavy. I still have my external frame pack and it weighs less than 3 lbs. The difference is it can carry more weight than the modern internals. So, the idea that UL is new is not true. It has been around for over 100 years. Most woodsman will progress from heavy to light as they gain knowledge and experience. And some just re-discovered it and think it is new.

I realize light hiking has been around for a while, I was more referring to the gram counters. Nobody wants to carry a heavy pack, I am just saying up until recent the weight of these packs were not heard of. I consider myself a comfort hiker. I will not be losing a lot of heavy stuff, well, my winter gear, but that is not that much weight. I will always be under 35lbs, except if I decide to carry more that 5 days of food at the end. I am pretty experienced outdoors. No, I have never walked 2k in a 6 month span, but I have put plenty of miles on myself. I am carrying several items that I don't "need", but I want. Also, I am not going to go with a 1lb tent or tarp if that is not what makes me comfy, I am not going to carry a 2lb pack because it's light. In my opinion, sometimes the weight out weighs the lack of. (pun intended) . Also, I will put this AG pack against a UL any day. I still can't believe how light it feels when on you. I will walk 10 miles with it packed to the max and it seems as if I only have 10lbs on my back. I realize there is a big difference between 10 and 2k, but I have a good feel for packs, and this is the best I have ever felt.

russb
02-14-2015, 18:19
I realize light hiking has been around for a while, I was more referring to the gram counters.

In that case you would be correct, because the fellows I mentioned did not use the metric system. They did however keep track of every bit of weight. The lists they kept look very similar to the gram counters of today, with every item accounted for, bringing the lightest possible, or going without. Kephart wrote of a fellow who had very expensive gear made of the finest of fabrics and eider down which weighed very little. A japanese silk tent at 13 oz, and a down quilt at 20oz. The gentleman also carried a "spirit burner", what we today call an alcohol stove. This man's entire backpacking kit was under 10 pounds.

comanche8f
02-14-2015, 19:26
In that case you would be correct, because the fellows I mentioned did not use the metric system. They did however keep track of every bit of weight. The lists they kept look very similar to the gram counters of today, with every item accounted for, bringing the lightest possible, or going without. Kephart wrote of a fellow who had very expensive gear made of the finest of fabrics and eider down which weighed very little. A japanese silk tent at 13 oz, and a down quilt at 20oz. The gentleman also carried a "spirit burner", what we today call an alcohol stove. This man's entire backpacking kit was under 10 pounds.


Yes, I know the history quite well. Even that Earl Shaffer managed to do it with a 20lb pack. The difference of 20lbs then and 20 now is huge. 20 LBS in a bad pack can feel like the weight of the world.

Point is, I am going to carry what is comfortable. 35 lbs is nothing to me, like I said, I would like a 20lb pack, but just isn't happening. I put all my gear in one bag and it felt like 35lbs, if not more. I put it in my new one, feels like nothing. So I am not buying into getting this pack because it is two pounds, when a 4lb bag has the potential to hold up better and be more comfortable. If you are happy with 10 or 20lbs, then go for it. Nothing against you. I am happy with 35 lbs, which feels like nothing. Why would you go without, if you don't mind the weight? I like to enjoy my down time, and I guarantee that me carrying a 35lb back will not keep me from finishing.