View Full Version : Can we talk about epic camping fail? With questions.
Frank_the_cat
01-25-2015, 01:36
Tonight, in Kansas, we had lows in the 40's and highs in the 60's, and I was feeling restless. I stuffed my pack full of crap, and thought "this will be excellent practice for some of the extremes on the AT".
I felt very proud of myself and my "experience".
Fast forward 5 hours, I have paid park entrance fees (a whole $5), hiked for a couple hours, and set up camp. Because I'm a fair-weather hammocker with a newly bought tarp, I thought all I needed was a wind break, a dram of bourbon, and a 10 degree sleeping bag.
Then it started to rain. And it rained some more. For the record, this wasn't on the radar or in the forcast when I drove out there. And now I feel like a novice who had ice water dribbling down their back, gave up in the middle of the night, and threw everything unceremoniously into their car and went home.
Frank_the_cat
01-25-2015, 01:38
let's just file this under another fail, I can't figure out how to edit or delete this post. :/
Frank_the_cat
01-25-2015, 01:51
Well, dammit, here are my questions:
My hammock length is about 3 inches shorter than my tarp length, on both sides, at the moment. Tonight, that didn't work, but is that because I didn't have a water drip? OR, do I need to shorten my hammock? On that note, is it possible to shorten my hammock using a sewing machine? Do I need special thread for that or anything will do? (note: I'm a short female).
I have an eno hammock and a warbonnet mamajamba.
Do you have any other advice for weathering a storm? Or rather, what did I do wrong? (other than not understand how to edit posts)
"Home page" Donation gets the Edit button.
Try drip lines at home, or, closer to the parking lot. Another solution: Add "doors". The mambajamba has a "door kit".
Is the Eno a gathered end hammock? If so, add a hem and a cord thru it, or, a Lark's Head knot around it all.
If not satisfied with this answer: Hammock Forum is your friend. They have DIY/MYOG and practical help for hammockers. However, there are hammockers here. They will show up!
Siestita
01-25-2015, 02:44
Your adventure was not an epic failure but instead was a solid success! Rain (and perhaps wind) with temperatures in the thirties or forties is seriously challenging hypothermia weather. It's great that you're learning how to cope with those conditions now, both technically and psychologically, rather than experiencing them for the first time on the AT.
I'm not a hammock hanger, but if I ever decide to forsake my Tarptent and take that approach instead I'll probably do so, at least initially, during milder weather. Don't some hammockers switch to using tents (and seriously warm pads) when they do winter camping?
Tarp direction is key to keeping out blowing rain and spray. Check out the door kits offered by Warbonnet (http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/tarp-door-kit/) and 2QZQ (http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/tarpaccessories.html). With only 3" overhang you'll need something to help keep the elements from blowing in. A poncho or your rain gear fixed to the head end will help too. Were you using a pad or anything other than the sleeping bag for insulation? Head over to hammock forums (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/content.php) for more info on all things hammock.
Dochartaigh
01-25-2015, 02:47
My hammock length is about 3 inches shorter than my tarp length, on both sides, at the moment. Tonight, that didn't work, but is that because I didn't have a water drip? OR, do I need to shorten my hammock? On that note, is it possible to shorten my hammock using a sewing machine? Do I need special thread for that or anything will do? (note: I'm a short female).
I have an eno hammock and a warbonnet mamajamba.
I just looked up the specs of like 7 different ENO hammocks and it seems the longest one is only 9'4" long (most people, even if you're not tall, prefer an 11' long hammock for comfort FYI). And that 9'4" length is straight out – most hammocks are hung with a curve so they're about 84% as long as the fabric is (and this is how long the ridgeline should be on the hammock as well if you installed one).
So that being said, even if you hung the hammock so tight between the trees that it's totally flat (not advisable as the suspension lines should be at a ~30º angle), you would have 10" of tarp on either side past the ends of the hammock. If you follow the proper hanging technique (with that 30º suspension angle so your hammock is round 84% of it's total length when hung) you would then have a hammock about 94” long, with 19" of overlap of the tarp on both sides…I highly suggest you head over to hammockforums.net and do a lot of reading so you can get a comfortable hang.
To the question about water drips: yes, you should always install absorbent drip lines on both sides of your hammock suspension if the weather is bad. I use thin strips of cut-up light load towels (i.e. Shamwow).
Insulating pad inside the hammock, perhaps CCF closed cell foam like Gossamer Gear in selected thickness and width. http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-insulation-pads.html
The UQ under quilt is excellent insulation. Many people go for 3/4 length, plus an insulation pad under the feet.
The Hammock Forums people like terminology like CCF, UQ, TQ (top quilt) etcetera.
What he said, plus many people achieve a diagonal "lay" in their hammock, as well, for comfort.
I suggest a prepared "ridgeline" to help you get the right "hang" every time.
You do have at least 1" wide webbing to protect the tree bark for your "hammock hang" ? Right?
If you are purchasing "rigging" I recommend Dutchware. http://dutchwaregear.com
rocketsocks
01-25-2015, 03:41
sorry not seeing the failure...you learned.
The sleeping bag should be picked up in a heap, arms underneath. The baffles can break if grabbed at.
Find out how to air dry, long hours. No heat. No "shortcuts".
This is "why" I would send out a sleeping bag, rather than wash at home. I keep it from getting wet.
If you have a synthetic sleeping bag, this is still "good advice".
After you have looked over what items of gear make a "hammock camping" experience, you may decide the hammock is for summer use only: it is expensive gear for hammock camping.
Recently, we have been talking about reasonable expense for gear. It can be crazy-expensive.
Think, consider, compare, decide to proceed, how far or not.
An inexpensive Eno hammock should not drag you into truly expensive gear, unless you have deep pockets and don't mind.
Few accomplished hammock campers can get their gear weight and gear volume down to thru-hike levels, if any.
Hammock camping is "advanced" activity, if you want to go there. Three-season hammock camping or "shoulder season" hammock camping is "advanced" activity and winter hammock camping is "advanced" activity.
Most hammock campers are summertime campers.
Hammock Forum is "extreme" or "advanced".
They can offer a beginner guidance. Most beginners use their hammock for summer months.
I am no beginner. It was my decision to keep to lazy afternoons for camping, not hiking and camping.
swjohnsey
01-25-2015, 08:48
Like someone said, you succeeded in diagnosing a problem before you found it on the trail. You might want to rethink the hammock thing. Hangers are certainly a minority on the trail.
Traveler
01-25-2015, 09:06
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche
bigcranky
01-25-2015, 10:21
My tarp gives me almost a foot of overhang on each end of my hammock. (Hennessy hammock with a Maccat tarp.) I have my suspension ropes tied in such a way that there is six inches of cord hanging down and any drips head down the cord. I've been completely dry is some very bad weather, even without "doors."
Your experience was a good one. Yes, you got kicked around a bit by the weather gods, but at least it happened now, and not on the second night of a thru-hike.
Migrating Bird
01-25-2015, 10:45
With my WBBB and all my various tarps, I always pitch the hammock/tarp low to the ground when inclement weather is anticipated. I pitch the tarp as low as possible so the hammock it "tucked up" under the tarp. Set up the tarp so that the distance between the tarp and hammock is at a minimum. This minimizes mist from blowing in under the hammock and wetting from the underside of my hammock and underquilt. I like to look at my set up from the side, the hammock tree straps will be well above the tarp ridge (lines) as they go around the tree. With this pitch, I can also use my hiking poles to create a porch, by supporting the front corners of my tarp/guy lines so that if it is not raining too hard, I still have a "room with a view". Removing the poles and tightening the guy lines battens down the hatches so to speak.
FYI, I set up my BB and my brand new, out of the box, WB Superfly in my backyard for the first time to test it out. A very heavy rain was imminent, and I settled in for a comfortable nights sleep only to last about 5 min after the rain began. Water was pouring through my tarp. My brand new WBSF was defective, the stitching on the ridge had wandered away from the seam tape and the fabric was just overlapped in the middle, forming a perfect funnel right above my head. I only found the defect the next day with a garden hose. WB/Brandon repaired the tarp, free of charge.
As others have suggested, visit Hammock Forums, they are very helpful. They also have group hangs, which are open to all, where novices and experts alike can share information and test a wide array of set ups.
I hammock with the same tarp and an eno traveller model. Some suggestions that might help you- add drip lines to give water a place to fall off rather than follow your suspension down to you. Pay attention to wind direction and try to set up perpendicular to it if possible. Don't forget to look up for dead limbs that may fall. You can experiment with setting up low to the ground, so your tarp resembles a pup tent for extra coverage. The closer the tarp is to you while lying in the hammock, the less vulnerable you are to wind driven rain. Hope this helps.
Ruffdude
01-25-2015, 10:53
I slept outside Friday night(northern Michigan) it was a comedy of errors.
Loaded my pack and did about 3 miles got to my campsite(my backyard) as night was falling.
My head lamp was dead. No spare batteries but I did have a single led mini light on my pack strap so I got setup in the dark OK.
Boiled some water and tried out a Good to Go meal, very good pasta with marinara sauce. I got it a bit too soupy but no big deal until I was sitting in my shelter trying to lean out the door while stirring it and splashed marinara sauce into my shoe. Got to the bottom of my meal and figured I would just drink the excess hot juice/sauce to help warm me and found I had forgotten to remove the oxygen absorber pack.
Broke camp the next morning and wanted to put in a few miles but I cut a few corners and did not put on my sock liners. It was a cool 27°F but I should have taken the time and effort to DO IT RIGHT. By the time I got back home (only about 4 miles) I had a hotspot developing on my right heel.
Lessons learned. :)
If you hike the AT in the spring you're probably going to encounter those kinds of conditions...only you'll be 10 or 20 miles from the next town and won't be able to bail to your car in the middle of the night. Best figure out how to survive comfortably in those conditions if you're going to be out there.
I decided to do a very impromptu BMT hike. I had planned to do a different BMT hike with a friend, but he couldn't make it. With no preparation, I decided to do a different section. I hurriedly packed my pack as it was already 2 pm and I had a 2 hr drive. In the process, I forgot my new titanium spoon. It was Christmas day 2 pm when I decided to pack up and hike. All stores were closed. I had no food that I could eat. Not even snacks. The plan was to pick up food from Walmart. When I left, I thought Walmart would be open. Nope. I went 1 1/2 days with no food. That was also my first 22+ mile day on the trail. I had nothing to eat for 1 1/2 days. Christmas day I hiked 3.2 miles in less than an hour. I wasn't hungry. I woke up the next day not hungry. Lunch time, also not hungry. Around 3 pm, my energy dropped. I wasn't per se hungry, but I knew I felt so tired because I was in need of calories. I had done close to 20 miles that day by that time. I was in the process of a large climb. I made it 2/3 of the way up and I couldn't do it any more. 22.5 mile day. By dinner, I was fairly hungry, but it wasn't awful. I went to sleep and woke up pretty good. I had always been like that. Even if I go to bed hungry, when I wake up in the morning 9/10 i am not hungry anymore.
I woke up feeling good. Refreshed. The night before I realized I had passed a hostel which offers hot food. Iron Bridge Cafe I believe. I passed it yesterday unaware of its existence (poor planning). I had less than 15 mile hike. I could accomplish that in about 5 hours I thought. I took off feeling great. About 2 hours into hike, the wheels feel off. For the first time ever, I hated a hike.
The food and skittles had to start giving me energy, right? Instead of giving me energy, it felt like the food had done the opposite. After calling myself several names to get myself mad to give me the energy to make it up in one go. I was off. I counted every other step. I had employed this trick before. I got to 100. Then another 100. Then a third 100. A fourth. I wanted 500. I didn't get it. About about 0.7 miles into the climb, I needed to stop for a short break. I took the last swig of my water and ate the last few skittles I was saving. I cursed at myself. I cursed at the trail. I just cursed at everyone and everything. Using this anger, I made it up to Brawley Mountain. I didn't stop at the summit; instead, I immediately made my way down. I wanted off this trail. I made it Ledford Gap (32.1 miles). I thought I was going to be able to ride this anger all the way down. However, the 500 foot climb up Tipton Mt (31.1 miles) KOed me. I was broken mentally. I was broken physically. For the last 2 miles, my quads were cramping with every steep. It seemed like anger was the only thing that fueled me, and it had ran out. I had yet to feel any benefit of the meal. In my anger, I said it was a waste of money. Maybe it was. After several breaks, and what felt like hours to my broken mind, I made it to Tipton Mt. From here, the trail was downhill for 1.3 miles and 700 feet. Yet still, I couldn't make it down in 1 or even 2 goes. I needed three breaks. My legs cramped with every step. I was just so tired. It was only 1.3 miles and downhill to boot. Less than 30 minutes normally. But it felt like I was 10 miles and 5 hours away. I actually made it down in decent time, but it just felt like it took three times as long as it actually did. I had done the final 7.1 miles in 3 3/4 hours. It wasn't a great pace, but it was basically 1.9 mph. Unfortunately, it felt like I was traveling 1.1 mph.
As I approach Wilscot Gap, I feel great relief. When I see my car, I get a little boost of energy. Not from the food, the diabetes coffee, nor the skittles, but from the knowledge that it was finally over after what seemed like a 1,000,000 hour ordeal.
I have never said this about a hike until this hike. The most enjoyable part of that day's hike was the drive home.
gunner76
01-25-2015, 15:17
Don't some hammockers switch to using tents (and seriously warm pads) when they do winter camping?
Very few do as we know we can sleep out in our hammocks to at least -40 degrees. My personal low in a hammock is 18 degrees in the snow so far.
Hammock camping is "advanced" activity, if you want to go there. Three-season hammock camping or "shoulder season" hammock camping is "advanced" activity and winter hammock camping is "advanced" activity.
Some the hammocks might be advanced but hammocks have been used for centuries. I have seen very simple set ups to very elaborate setups. If you are camping in the snow in a tent then you better have the right kind of tent; same as camping out in a hammock...and know how to use it.
Most hammock campers are summertime campers.
You don't get out much do you.....Go look on Hammock Forums under outings and trip reports and look at all the cold weather hammock hangs. I am sponsoring the Frosty Butt Hang this week end, just got back from one in Florida where 230 people attended and there lots of them going one this time of year and there is a Cold Butt Hang this coming weekend in SC.
Hammock Forum is "extreme" or "advanced".
HF Caters to all hangers from beginners to extreme. I always recommend to new hangers that they attend a group hang in their area as one can see many different set ups and talk to the folks who use them to find out why they use the gear they do. Some times the hammock gear vendors attend these hangs so you can see their gear and talk to them. I have one vendor joining us at the Frosty Butt Hang.
As with any gear...learn how to use it before you head into the woods.
I hike more than camp. I, personally, can't justify the expense.
I would be interested to know max-min price gear for 30 F, 20 F, O F, including weight carried and packed volume.
That is the kind of information not yet seen. This is the reason for "look before you leap" advice.
Hammocking, short of blue tarp "dirt-bagging" or DIY/MYOG, is more expensive than that of gear for "ground sleepers".
I will take a look at that again to see if the "hangs" have got far away from the parking lot and the condominiums.
gunner76
01-25-2015, 20:32
Hammocking, short of blue tarp "dirt-bagging" or DIY/MYOG, is more expensive than that of gear for "ground sleepers".
Proof please
Proof please
This is the internet. You can say anything you want with zero evidence to back it up.
gunner76
01-25-2015, 21:00
This is the internet. You can say anything you want with zero evidence to back it up.
I know, so sometimes you have to asl people to lback up their claims
Damn Yankee
01-25-2015, 21:07
When I was younger, around 1980-81, I was stationed in Germany while in the Army. We were on a 30 day cold weather exercise Back then we still used the two man, oil soaked pup tents. We were in about 3' of snow and temps. down to negative 30 and used sterno and candles for heat. One afternoon while my tent mate as sleeping, I went to chow and left a candle burning setting the tent on fire with him in it. returned to see others throwing snow on what remained of he tent and his sleeping bag.
One Half
01-25-2015, 21:45
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Edison
Tonight, in Kansas, we had lows in the 40's and highs in the 60's, and I was feeling restless. I stuffed my pack full of crap, and thought "this will be excellent practice for some of the extremes on the AT".
I felt very proud of myself and my "experience".
Fast forward 5 hours, I have paid park entrance fees (a whole $5), hiked for a couple hours, and set up camp. Because I'm a fair-weather hammocker with a newly bought tarp, I thought all I needed was a wind break, a dram of bourbon, and a 10 degree sleeping bag.
Then it started to rain. And it rained some more. For the record, this wasn't on the radar or in the forcast when I drove out there. And now I feel like a novice who had ice water dribbling down their back, gave up in the middle of the night, and threw everything unceremoniously into their car and went home.
No failure that I can see. You learned some things to work on. Get some help on Hammock Forums and you will figure out how to hang dry and warm.
We camped this past weekend and temps got to 30F and was very warm. Last summer me and my son slept in a 8" rain storm in 10 hours. Dry as a bone and we don't use tarps with doors.
Just practice and you will get it.
response:
I heard it right here.
We spent a long time on a long thread right here at White Blaze with one young man who was going to show us it could be done: light weight and low volume for his thru-hike. He purchased great hammocking stuff. In the end, he went to the ground.
I will tell you what needs proof: hammock "evangelists".
I don't see any one of you taunting "experts" answering the information I requested.
I asked. The question in genuine.
However, like every liar that "shows up" in a forum, I got only ridicule instead.
I have spent a lot of time looking up hammock gear, and, purchasing some "pricey" stuff.
I am not your enemy, however, if the shoe fits, I stand up to liars and frauds every time.
Edit: as for "hangs" next to parking lots and condominiums, I watched it on YouTube posted in Hammock Forum.
I hike more than camp. I, personally, can't justify the expense.
I would be interested to know max-min price gear for 30 F, 20 F, O F, including weight carried and packed volume.
That is the kind of information not yet seen. This is the reason for "look before you leap" advice.
Hammocking, short of blue tarp "dirt-bagging" or DIY/MYOG, is more expensive than that of gear for "ground sleepers".
I will take a look at that again to see if the "hangs" have got far away from the parking lot and the condominiums.
Here is the question, again.
gunner76
01-25-2015, 23:21
I hike more than camp. I, personally, can't justify the expense.
If you hike more than you camp, then why do you care how much hammock gear weights or cost ?
I would be interested to know max-min price gear for 30 F, 20 F, O F, including weight carried and packed volume.
Then check the vendors sites on HF for the information. Like any gear there are a variety of ways to pack it.
That is the kind of information not yet seen. This is the reason for "look before you leap" advice.
If you check on HF most of us who have been hanging for awhile recommend that folks wanting to learn about hanging attend a group hang where they can check out different set ups and ask the user why he/she choose that set up and what do they like or not like about it.
Hammocking, short of blue tarp "dirt-bagging" or DIY/MYOG, is more expensive than that of gear for "ground sleepers".
Still waiting for your data to support that statement. Car camping, over night backpacking, long distance backpacking, winter, summer, mountain camping all take their own gear. Like any sport, the gear can be as cheap or expensive as you want to spend. High quality gear tends to last longer than cheap gear. My wife and I are still using sleeping bags ( NF and Snow Lion ) from the 70's because we choose to get quality gear. My Kelty backpack finally fell apart after 30 years and I had to buy a new pack. It was very light weight for its time, but not by today's standards.
I make a lot of my hammock gear from the hammocks to the rain fly and after you factor in the cost of the raw materials needed and the time it takes you to make the gear ( how much is your time worth ? ), you are not really saving any money. I still DIY gear as it allows me to test out ideas, some work, some do not.
I will take a look at that again to see if the "hangs" have got far away from the parking lot and the condominiums.
Check out Shug's videos. You can find group hangs that are held at state parks or national forest and guess what, many a tenter sets up in the same place. Other hangs require hiking in to a remote site. All you have to do is find the style of group hang that fits your style of camping. When I want to get away from the crowds I head for my local national forest and I rarely see anyone else out there camping.
Migrating Bird
01-26-2015, 00:06
Hey Gunner, nice to see you post.
Here you go Connie, I'll bite.
Regarding Hammock gear weights listed below. Cost I'm not sure (est $700 - $800 3 or 4 seasons) as this stuff was accumulated over time but it is more expensive than just a tarp, quilt and pad ($300-$400 of equal quality). Am I the lightest, No, check out Sgt. Rock at Hammock Forums for that. Did I buy the cheapest, No, I am fortunate to be able to afford the quality items that work for me, could I go lighter, yes definitely.
Keep in mind, here in the Northeast, on the AT as well as many of the other great trails, good campsites and fair weather are premium and most often are few and far between. I can hike all day and walk off the trail anywhere (where it's legal) and set up, I never worry about bugs, rocks, roots, trenching, slope. I can relax, eat, sleep in the same dry comfort. I have a strato lounger with a back support, can set up my tarp in a downpour and un-pack underneath it, standing up and everything stays nice and dry, pack up the trap last and all is still dry. With my tarp pole modification, I have a tremendous amount of dry space under the tarp. I only use down UQ/TQ's and never had a problem with moisture. No questions, hammocks sleep colder as they are more sensitive to wind but with the right selection of gear for the conditions including a healthy margin of safety and proper site selection, I have no problem down to single digits which is the coldest I have camped in. When I retire for the evening, everything is hung from my ridge lines, within reach, under the tarp (except food), nothing is on the ground (mud/snow) except my camp shoes which are directly below me often on a rock, log or similar. When I break camp and turn around to look at my site impact (and to make sure I did not forget anything), I leave only footprints. Personally I really like my hammocks, while you obviously like your equipment.
By the way, I have never, ever taken my hammock gear car camping nor used a "blue tarp", I had a brown one once on a canoe trip in the ADK's to cover my tent though.
Note: total wgt is for 3 seasons, my packed volume is 3 small bags, tarp, hammock, est. 5"x8"ea soft, TQ/UQ est. 6"x8" hard.
Shelter
OZ
WBBB hammock
26.8
1
26.75
WBTraveler
20.0
0
WB Superfly
32.0
0
MacCat Tarp Deluxe Spinn
13.8
1
13.75
Pole for Tarp
1
0
6 Ti stakes
0.9
1
0.875
Ground cloth (only used if in huts, White Mtns)
0.5
1
0
Total
41.4
2.6
Sleep System
Yeti UQ
11.5
1
11.5
0.72
Hammock Gear Winter Incubator UQ 0degree
30.0
0
0.00
Black Mamba TQ 30degree
20.6
1
20.6
1.29
Event Compression Stuff Sack for TQ & UQ
4.3
1
4.25
0.27
Foam Pad 1/4" Evazote
7.5
0
0.00
Total
36.35
2.27#
Now can we please get back to offering helpful suggestions for the OP or if the OP wants to PM me, I do my best to answer the questions posed.
Here is the question, again.
Hammocking is always heavier, more expensive, and bulkier because you have a hammock. No matter what setup you have just subtract the hammock, sleep on the ground under the tarp and it is lighter than with the hammock.
UQ's are a little more expensive and heavier than sleeping pad(I don't own any pads so not 100% on this one)
I'll carry my hammock and sleep in peace.
Hammocking is always heavier, more expensive, and bulkier because you have a hammock.
I object! Price out and weigh a quality 20* down sleepingbag and it costs/weighs and consumes as much pack space as a set of comparable quilts.
Now, you'll need a pretty hefty Exped style inflateable pad to get a fraction of the comfort of a simple, gathered-end, hammock. Those pads will add a pound to your pack and subtract the equivalent of a pound of flesh from your wallet.
UQ's are a little more expensive and heavier than sleeping pad(I don't own any pads so not 100% on this one).
Not if you are payinging attention to R-values
I object! Price out and weigh a quality 20* down sleepingbag and it costs/weighs and consumes as much pack space as a set of comparable quilts.
Now, you'll need a pretty hefty Exped style inflateable pad to get a fraction of the comfort of a simple, gathered-end, hammock. Those pads will add a pound to your pack and subtract the equivalent of a pound of flesh from your wallet.
Use the same top quilt for ground sleeping. And I said nothing about comfort.
Use the same top quilt for ground sleeping. And I said nothing about comfort.
Wearing one shoe weighs half as much as wearing two...
Trailweaver
01-26-2015, 01:26
I admit right here I've never hung/slept in a hammock. I can't help with that problem, except to repeat what others have said. What I can say, and others have also said, is that there isn't one person on here who hasn't made some big mistakes along the way, and it is soooo much better to make them on a hike like you did. Don't make the mistakes out 30 miles from nowhere with hypothermia or something equally dangerous. You did what many people do - let the desire to go out over-ride the planning part, and you learned from it. Therefore, it's not a failure. It's a learning experience. You won't make that mistake again.
This coming from someone who spent the night in a tent with no poles one night because I packed in a hurry and didn't check my tent bag for the poles before leaving. Never made that mistake again. See how it works? You will get better, I promise. Don't beat yourself up any more.
Migrating Bird, thank you for your effort.
It takes time to post an itemization like that. I know. I spend countless hours on providing detailed help in forums. I do it, because I care very much for people to get enjoyable outdoor experiences, not have a miserable experience and quit.
I am still interested in the information I would like to know: it would be most helpful information.
The personal "snarky" remarks I got never had a place in a discussion. I don't see why I should tolerate such remarks.
The OP has an Eno (inexpensive) and a Mambajamba (not inexpensive) and a soaking wet sleeping bag (relatively expensive).
The first response: it could not have been set up properly. My first response, as well.
How about this? Is it the wrong size tarp for hammock?
consider: What is the tarp size? What is the hammock length?
Let's find out.
My first response was help the OP get the right "hang".
I immediately mentioned help from Hammock Forum and said hammockers in this forum will show up. The moment a hammocker shows up, I get a "personal remark" from a hammocker.
My next response was also "for" the OP: let's have real answers about "performance".
After all, the OP was trying out gear before "hitting the trail" on the AT, trying out gear beforehand is a very smart thing to do.
Instead, more "personal remarks".
I would still like to see the performance information. I have interest.
If gunner76 is one of the respected "big guns" around hammocking circles, then, will we see the performance information?
How about a thread for that, with a link to that thread from here?
The participants in White Blaze answer performance questions: 20 F enough for a March start, change out to 40 F or not, by Springer? Is that gear item enough R-value? How about packed weight and packed volume?
I have seen every Shug video, not because I need the information. I already know the information. His videos are fun.
I have been signed up at SGT. Rock's website many years.
I have been at White Blaze forum many years.
When Hammock Forum was new I was there.
Like I said, I have done a lot of reading and searching product specifications and made some purchases.
Let's see, we discussed gear piled up in my apartment at zelph's forum bplite about my first video at YouTube: "too much gear".
I have done my share of DIY/MYOG.
I do my share of answering questions.
Frankly, all gear "evangelists" are the same: gear "evangelists" is a forum terminology, like "troll".
More "enthusiasm" is not what is needed when information is sought.
Not if you are payinging attention to R-values
My XTherm has R-value 5.7
Then, what UQ underquilts provide R-value 5.7
No failure that I can see. You learned some things to work on. Get some help on Hammock Forums and you will figure out how to hang dry and warm.
We camped this past weekend and temps got to 30F and was very warm. Last summer me and my son slept in a 8" rain storm in 10 hours. Dry as a bone and we don't use tarps with doors.
Just practice and you will get it.
Details, please.
What gear did you have?
How was it set up?
Was that rain straight down downpour rain?
Was that rain wind-driven rain?
Details, please.
What gear did you have?
How was it set up?
Was that rain straight down downpour rain?
Was that rain wind-driven rain?
This past weekend 30°F was the low. We all(me and two sons) use 20°F quilts top and bottom. I wear Under Armour fishing style pant hiking and that's what I wore to bed, T-shirt on top with a fleece hoodie, darn tough socks. No clue what my sons wore but I don't think they had any thick thermal undies on.
The trip it rained so much I was using a Tadpole tarp by wilderness logics and that may have been in 2013 now that I think about it. My son was still using a Hennessy with the asym rainfly(no clue what hammock). It rained so hard and long we had every type of rain possible. Sort of like Forrest Gump describes rain in Vietnam.
The point is things are a little trickier with hammocks. It took a few tries at lower temps and during rain to get comfortable. Now we are in south Louisiana so 20''s is about all we see unless on vacation. What to wear, how to adjust the UQ all takes a few outing to get right. Everyone is different so no one thing will work for all. I think the OP did a great job. Now she knows what to work on or if hammocks are really for her or not. I think her hammock may be improperly hung because unless it's a 12' hammock she should have plenty room on each side with that tarp. My 11' hammocks have almost a foot on each end with the same length tarp.
I am considering an asym rain fly. I want to purchase a cuben asym rain fly.
Was your son dry? Was you son warm?
20 F is a reasonable 3-season rating in the mountains around here. I have the Hammock Gear Burrow 20 top quilt. I love it.
I am considering an asym rain fly. I want to purchase a cuben asym rain fly.
Was your son dry? Was you son warm?
20 F is a reasonable 3-season rating in the mountains around here. I have the Hammock Gear Burrow 20 top quilt. I love it.
He stayed dry with the Hennessy asym. Just remember it connects to the suspension of the Hennessy so it was very low on the hammock and he had the tie-outs very tight to the hammock. I never used a non Hennessy asym so can't speak for them. But he did stay dry. Now the trip where it rained so much was warm so insulation wasn't an issue.
20°F quilts have kept us warm to 24°. I have multiple brands due to me, both sons and wife having gear and they all work. Bottom quilts can be a little tricky depending on how long they are. Some people like full length some like 3/4 length. It something you just have to try to see what you like.
My wife uses a bridge hammock with as much insulation as possible(she stays close to the truck). Full UQ with a pad in between layers, sleeping bag and top quilt. But she never has any cold spots. I like 3/4 under quilts and will get cold spot here and there, but I rather be a little cool than a little warm. I'll keep a small reflectix pad with me and slip under spots that may be cold as needed. Backyard testing is about the only way to see what works or just have a bailout option.
Migrating Bird
01-26-2015, 09:13
Just to lighten the mood and perhaps a poor attempt to take the sting out some of the posts on this thread, mine included, as we are all out there more or less the same reason. I for one just can't wait to get back on the trail for some good old R&R, smoke some great weed, with my personal attack dog Killer, who is never leashed, dry, clean nor very well mannered but just absolutely loves everybody to death except for those he doesn't, throw in some good target practice with my 9 mm, then sit by my roaring fire preferably right at tree line, so I can kick back with a few beers, watch the sunset through my crack induced haze with my rap music amped up for all hear, powered by my ultra light gas generator because I'm just that kind of guy. Did I mention that I would drive up the old jeep trail in my big gas hog of a chevy truck just so I don't have to walk too far, thank God for fracking as my welfare funds just go a lot further now. Just to make it clear, I hate dodge, fords and don't even get me started on rice burners, come to think of it, I'm not very tolerant of bible thumpers, tree huggers, the political party currently in office or gram weenies either. All this from comfort of my hammock. Life just doesn't get much better. Try and have a great day.:)
GoldenBear
01-26-2015, 09:54
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/entry.php/583-Based-on-my-choices-from-a-week-ago-I-nominate-myself-for-quot-Bonehead-of-the-Year-quot
Dochartaigh
01-26-2015, 11:53
However, like every liar that "shows up" in a forum, I got only ridicule instead.
The personal "snarky" remarks I got never had a place in a discussion. I don't see why I should tolerate such remarks.
I immediately mentioned help from Hammock Forum and said hammockers in this forum will show up. The moment a hammocker shows up, I get a "personal remark" from a hammocker.
Instead, more "personal remarks".
Connie, just some food for thought, but I hope you can see how some of your posts can be thought of as, well, ‘abrasive’ might be a nice way of putting it. I know I’ve seen this, and judging by a lot of other peoples responses to your posts they have as well. I don’t think you mean to do it, but that’s how you sometimes come across on the forum. Just something to think about before hitting that “submit” button (and the same goes to those replying to those posts as well ;)
To answer your question about tent vs. hammock; ignoring spending hours researching 3 different temp rating setups, or somehow finding an absolutely giant graduated cylinder to dump my gear into so I can calculate it’s volume to compare ;) – here’s a down and dirty tent vs. hammock comparison from my own spreadsheets. I can only give you the 40º info I have as that’s the lowest it’s gotten for me while overnighting in spring/summer/fall in my neck of the woods (keep in mind if you go down to say 20º or 0º, that both systems will cost a more, and be heavier, so it’s roughly proportional on those aspects). I’m also going with high-end comfort (and “ultraweight” conscious) systems, as comparing a hammock (which 95% of people switch to purely based on comfort), to a 6x9' tarp + tyvek ground sheet “tent” wouldn’t be a fair comparison.
$580 for zPacks Soloplex 18 ounce tent/guylines/stakes/stuffsack
ZPacks cuben groundsheet 2.5oz (I’ve punched holes through cuben and silnylon with mere pine needles before…not optional on a $535 tent IMO) $95 (tyvek is around 4+ ounces, albeit for cheaper)
$100 thermaRest xlite full-length mattress (none of this “my legs will go on my pack for insulation” nonsense for a torso sized pad) 15 ounces
$220 Hammock Gear 40º down quilt 16oz
51.5 ounces / $995
$129 for $59 GT Nano 7 hammock + $20 suspension (tree straps + amsteel) + $50 Dutch summer sock bugnet = 16.5 oz. (I’ve seen WAY lighter setups than this FYI – and for those ~5’9” and taller I would switch to a cheaper Dutch 11’ hammock for a couple ounce penalty)
40º Hammock Gear top quilt $220 16oz.
40º Hammock Gear bottom quilt $159 12 oz
feet CCF foam pad, $15, 1 oz.
HG Cuben Tarp/guylines/stakes 7.5oz $262 (you can get away with no doors -with good setup location- on the tarp as the Dutch summer sock has an UQ protector…otherwise add 1.2 ounces for a tarp with doors)
53 ounce / $785
The tent is $210 more. Hammock weighs 1.5 ounces more.
I know a Zpacks tent is extreme (as is a cuben tarp for a hammock), but those are the kinds of items many ultralight thru-hikers use (and the data I had on hand to run these numbers).
Anyway, just some more numbers to contemplate. It’s up to you to weigh those pros and cons for yourself of each system, but they’re definitely comparable (in certain situations - roughly, and completely dependent on which options you choose for each system of course - there can be a HUGE discrepancy on both weight and money depending on personal choice, and budget).
I hike more than camp. I, personally, can't justify the expense.
I would be interested to know max-min price gear for 30 F, 20 F, O F, including weight carried and packed volume.
That is the kind of information not yet seen. This is the reason for "look before you leap" advice.
Hammocking, short of blue tarp "dirt-bagging" or DIY/MYOG, is more expensive than that of gear for "ground sleepers".
I will take a look at that again to see if the "hangs" have got far away from the parking lot and the condominiums.I bought a 2lb 30 degree bag on sale at Cabelas for $40. If you shop bargains you can put together an entire pack for a couple of hundred dollars. And yes, I've camped under a $10 blue tarp before. If its the choice between that or not going at all, I'm going to go.
Just to lighten the mood and perhaps a poor attempt to take the sting out some of the posts on this thread, mine included, as we are all out there more or less the same reason. I for one just can't wait to get back on the trail for some good old R&R, smoke some great weed, with my personal attack dog Killer, who is never leashed, dry, clean nor very well mannered but just absolutely loves everybody to death except for those he doesn't, throw in some good target practice with my 9 mm, then sit by my roaring fire preferably right at tree line, so I can kick back with a few beers, watch the sunset through my crack induced haze with my rap music amped up for all hear, powered by my ultra light gas generator because I'm just that kind of guy. Did I mention that I would drive up the old jeep trail in my big gas hog of a chevy truck just so I don't have to walk too far, thank God for fracking as my welfare funds just go a lot further now. Just to make it clear, I hate dodge, fords and don't even get me started on rice burners, come to think of it, I'm not very tolerant of bible thumpers, tree huggers, the political party currently in office or gram weenies either. All this from comfort of my hammock. Life just doesn't get much better. Try and have a great day.:)
Don't forget to burn your trash in the fire and pee on it to put it out. :^)
Dochartaigh,
Thank you, for particulars.
In fact, I have been considering purchase of items you have mentioned, with your comments from experience.
This is very much appreciated.
edit: I don't tent. I tarp: it is more cost effective and I enjoy seeing out to the weather. I don't hike much, in Winter. I tipi, in winter camp.
Bronk,
I used "bargain" gear, hand-me-downs, scouting gear, and military surplus gear, for years. Either it doesn't hold up, or, it is too heavy and too bulky, in my experience, if you continue and you do a lot of hiking like me. I do a lot of hiking, all I can get.
The gear we have available, today, is superior. If you damage lightweight gear more easily, you need to exercize more care, that's all. If you "go for" the most lightweight gear, or, the newest unproven lightweight gear, exercize more care. I wait for "reviews" from real people, for the most part providing their experiences in forums, not "reviewers" that open a brand new item out of a box, or, make a day ir two or three hike. That is all well and good. I enjoy a "unboxing" video. I do not make a purchase, however, until I can find out more about it: lessons learned from hard experience.
I think you need to give up hanging...and send me your tarp...FOR FREE!
Hah! I am just getting started.
I have got summer camping, by the river. That works.
Lazy afternoons, at the campsite. That works.
I get this dialed in more, I will have the hammock for every river or mountain lake kayak trip.
If I get it dialed in, it will not be only a 10' gathered end hammock AKA "kitchen tarp" for short hiking trips.