View Full Version : pooping below freezing
squeezebox
02-03-2015, 17:46
So what do you do if it's below freezing and you have to poop? The ground is frozen and you can't dig a cat hole. Tipi Walter's answer of pooping on a paper towel inside the tent, letting it freeze, and then throwing it away is an interesting answer. Any other answers??
saltysack
02-03-2015, 17:50
Haa...forgot about the Tipi snickers[emoji1]....my answer is obviously if no privy cover w leaves/sticks and pack out or burn TP or wipes...
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Sarcasm the elf
02-03-2015, 17:59
Find a nice size rock, move it to the side, poop in the hole under the rock, replace rock.
Snow does a good job of replacing TP, though it takes a bit to get used to.
garlic08
02-03-2015, 18:57
In winter I typically camp on a deep layer of snow, usually in some place nobody's ever camped before, so I go on a hillside away from the summer trail or any water, burn the TP, and let nature take its course with the organics. If that offends anyone, please forgive me. I never stay more than one night in the same spot, so nothing builds up.
Sarcasm the elf
02-03-2015, 19:05
In winter I typically camp on a deep layer of snow, usually in some place nobody's ever camped before, so I go on a hillside away from the summer trail or any water, burn the TP, and let nature take its course with the organics. If that offends anyone, please forgive me. I never stay more than one night in the same spot, so nothing builds up.
I'm offended! :D
colorado_rob
02-03-2015, 19:36
Out here in the west, many if not most of us use "wag bags", "blue bags", many names for the same thing, basically a double or triple bag for your poop. We do this for short trips, like weekends, one or two poops. Longer trips, well, as already said, let nature do its thing, but well off trail. and pack out the TP for sure.
Rolls Kanardly
02-03-2015, 19:41
Using snow for your immediate needs is interesting to say the least.
Especially if your snowmobiling at night and you trip while trying to get your snowmobile suit down.
Brrrrrr, Rolls
from Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics:
https://lnt.org/blog/winter-camping-poo-check-it-out
What to do with your Winter Camping poo? If you don’t have the luxury of portable toilets near your activity area, you’ll need to consider how to dispose of waste properly. The soil is usually several feet out of reach and hard as a rock unless you can locate a patch of bare ground where a trowel can penetrate the duff.
Burying it in the snow isn’t acceptable. Human waste buried in snow will find itself lying on the ground surface once the spring thaw occurs.
The best solution is to pack it out. Hey it’s winter and your poo will freeze so you won’t have to worry about odor. Because waste is frozen in the winter, packing it out is not as distasteful as you may think. There are a couple of options: A Wag Bag or colored ziploc bags.
The Wag Bag is now called the Go Anywhere Toilet Kit. It is designed to be used on its own to pack-out human waste. Wag Bags are required items at certain locations to lessen environmental impact.
The kit is a double bag system made from spill-proof, puncture-resistant material. An inner waste bag comes preloaded with a Poo Powder gelling agent that turns liquids solid, and contains natural odor control and decay catalysts. The inner bag can be used multiple times, for up to 32 ounces of waste. When finished, put the inner bag inside the sturdy, outer zip-close disposal bag. The kit’s packaging and ingredients are biodegradable, EPA Class II waste, landfill approved. Each kit includes toilet paper sheets and an antiseptic hand wipe. MSRP: $39.99 per 12 pack available from a variety of sources including www.gocleanwaste.com or www.ThePett.com
A cheaper alternative is using colored re-closable bag (e.g. ziploc) just for solid wastes. These bags can be purchased by the carton from a shipping supply company such as Uline. These can contain your waste (or feminine hygiene products) out of sight.
Also, no one likes to look a “yellow snow”, so be sure to cover urine with clean snow.
If you don't bury your poop, when the snow melts you'll be contaminating water sources and leaving an icky mess.
Fortunately, on the A.T. privies aren't too far apart... except in winter when they get a lot further apart when the snow is deep. A great time to find colored zip loc bags is around the holidays, when groceries stores sell red and green colored partially opaque zip loc bags with Christmas designs, to put your baked holiday treats in :-)
Another Kevin
02-03-2015, 23:21
The best place to find out is to ask the management of the land. LaurieP is certainly right in a great many locations. If I recall correctly, though, WMNF and Baxter both ask that if you have to go in the alpine region, you do it on bare rock or hard ice, smear it as thin as possible, and leave it for ultraviolet light from the Sun to disinfect. The local waste disposal systems can't handle WAG bags, because they would wind up putting untreated human waste into landfills not equipped to handle it, so there's no good way in Millinocket to dispose of them (the waste treated with Poo Powder is not compatible with domestic septic systems). Above timberline, smearing is actually not that bad a technique (if you avoid vegetation!) because when there is sunlight, it's intense. LNT does not recommend it, because people don't do it right. They smear it out like peanut butter, when it really has to be scraped as thin as you can manage for Old Sol to do his thing.
In all but the deepest snow or hardest cold, you can usually manage to shift a rock or a log and get below the frost to dig. But be prepared to pack stuff out if necessary. Just remember that you may need to get it farther than the trail town to find a system that can handle it.
If packed out and you can't put it in an approved privy or flush it at the most nearby toilet, how about asking the local ER to put it in a biological hazard bag?
Is that proper disposal of waste?
If packed out and you can't put it in an approved privy or flush it at the most nearby toilet, how about asking the local ER to put it in a biological hazard bag?
Is that proper disposal of waste?
I don't know how I would feel about that if I were working in an ER. Some dirty vagabond looking fellow walking in with a bag of 'waste' trying to pass it off on me. I might just request they be held on a mental health stay.
I don't know how I would feel about that if I were working in an ER. Some dirty vagabond looking fellow walking in with a bag of 'waste' trying to pass it off on me. I might just request they be held on a mental health stay.
I agree. I don't think ER staff would be to happy about this request.
I had a dead bird the local Animal Control Officer refused to take and send in to the state lab the law required.
I didn't take the bird. I asked for the appropriately labelled bag. They gave me biological hazard bags.
Ask hospital housekeeping. What do they do with human waste that did not go in the toilet? Do they use biological hazard bags? Could you have one, or, two? Then, can it go in an ordinary waste bin?
I had to put the dead bird in the hospital hazardous waste bin behind the hospital.
We are talking about winter, right? Poo would freeze.
The AT has privys near shelters, right. Biodegradable "wag bag"?
Most places, a dog owner has to pick up dog poo.
Like that. Glove. Bag.
Edit: Look like a vagabond? That is your choice?
I look like a tourist or a traveler (international trekker) at or nearby the national park while hiking.
I thought that is the reason hikers wear zip-off pants.
Even a fisherman's shirt helps.
Have some expensive clothing or gear.
Just Bill
02-04-2015, 11:35
As long as your pipes don't freeze you're fine.
The smear method works fine. (Smear it on a rock or tree)
So does kicking the brick. (Poop, let it freeze, then kick the brick into a low use area)
Lifting the lid is a fine plan also. (Elf's Xmas present hidden under rock method mentioned above)
Like most LNT principals, use a little common sense. Most areas North and East are good healthy eco-systems that can tolerate a few piles of Lincoln Logs come spring if they are spread out and randomly distributed several hundred feet from trails and shelters. Get a mile or so down the trail before your morning healthy and this becomes easier.
If you are in high use areas or poor soil conditions then pack it out.
If you don't know what poor soil conditions are, then pack it out.
If you find all this distasteful, hold it until you reach town. This is how speed hikers accomplish their amazing feats and high mileage days.
Generally the "danger" from the sight of poop is much higher than the actual presence of poop.
Generally in good forest areas- "outta sight, outta mind" is a fine principal.
Another Kevin
02-04-2015, 11:55
As long as your pipes don't freeze you're fine.
The smear method works fine. (Smear it on a rock or tree)
So does kicking the brick. (Poop, let it freeze, then kick the brick into a low use area)
Lifting the lid is a fine plan also. (Elf's Xmas present hidden under rock method mentioned above)
Like most LNT principals, use a little common sense. Most areas North and East are good healthy eco-systems that can tolerate a few piles of Lincoln Logs come spring if they are spread out and randomly distributed several hundred feet from trails and shelters. Get a mile or so down the trail before your morning healthy and this becomes easier.
If you are in high use areas or poor soil conditions then pack it out.
If you don't know what poor soil conditions are, then pack it out.
If you find all this distasteful, hold it until you reach town. This is how speed hikers accomplish their amazing feats and high mileage days.
Generally the "danger" from the sight of poop is much higher than the actual presence of poop.
Generally in good forest areas- "outta sight, outta mind" is a fine principal.
Unfortunately, in many areas of the Northeast, far enough off the trail is outside the trail corridor. The entire A-T corridor is a "known high use area." But it has good enough soil conditions that cat sanitation works in warm weather.
The underlying principle is that you want to have the stuff either well exposed to sunlight (that is, smeared in a sunny spot) or else well exposed to soil bacteria. If it's just lying on the surface, it'll get washed into a waterway in the next heavy rain.
Ground won't be frozen for long, right? Just sayin'.... ;)
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Unfortunately, in many areas of the Northeast, far enough off the trail is outside the trail corridor. The entire A-T corridor is a "known high use area."
I'll accept there is some truth to that, but by the same token I am thinking that not one in 100 AT hikers has ever walked an honest 300' off trail to camp or poo.
The only advice I could find for A.T. areas is this:
Baxter State Park says in their winter use information handbook (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/pdf/camping/BaxterStateParkWinterUse.pdf):
Human waste: There are outhouses in every campground; please use them, even if there's a blizzard going on -- human feces and urine next to the trail or cabin is unsightly, and dangerous because it can contaminate drinking water supplies causing serious illness. Along the trail, carry a poop bucket with a few shavings that can be emptied at the next outhouse. There are several products on the market now making carrying out human waste easier and sanitary. Don't leave toilet paper along the trail -- carry it to the next outhouse or put it in your carry out bag.
swjohnsey
02-04-2015, 22:09
Probably closer to 1 in 1,000.
WingedMonkey
02-04-2015, 22:42
If you find all this distasteful, hold it until you reach town. This is how speed hikers accomplish their amazing feats and high mileage days.
That would explain the failure rate.
bangorme
02-05-2015, 10:43
Probably closer to 1 in 1,000.
Which is why I ALWAYS tent more than 300 feet from the trail. There is so much people/dog crap around the trails, that avoiding accidentally setting up camp around it is a top priority.
yerbyray
02-05-2015, 10:50
Which is why I ALWAYS tent more than 300 feet from the trail. There is so much people/dog crap around the trails, that avoiding accidentally setting up camp around it is a top priority.
This is a great point and only counter-argument is the lack of established fire rings but that can be written off if only use a stove.
That bad?
I will toss in a "unique" idea.
There are dogs and pigs that eat poop.
I have no idea if this harms the dog or pig.
If not, walk a dog? Walk a pig?
I have actually seen a small pot-belly pet pig on a harness and a leash. I am not making this up. Honest.
Probably closer to 1 in 1,000.
The only advice I could find for A.T. areas is this:
Baxter State Park says in their winter use information handbook (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/pdf/camping/BaxterStateParkWinterUse.pdf):
Human waste: There are outhouses in every campground; please use them, even if there's a blizzard going on -- human feces and urine next to the trail or cabin is unsightly, and dangerous because it can contaminate drinking water supplies causing serious illness. Along the trail, carry a poop bucket with a few shavings that can be emptied at the next outhouse. There are several products on the market now making carrying out human waste easier and sanitary. Don't leave toilet paper along the trail -- carry it to the next outhouse or put it in your carry out bag.
carry a 'poop Bucket ' huh?
havn't seen too many hikers with their 'Poop Bucket' lately........
saltysack
02-05-2015, 22:31
That bad?
I will toss in a "unique" idea.
There are dogs and pigs that eat poop.
I have no idea if this harms the dog or pig.
If not, walk a dog? Walk a pig?
I have actually seen a small pot-belly pet pig on a harness and a leash. I am not making this up. Honest.
All dogs r sh$$ eaters......doesn't mean I want mine eating a trail side snickers!!!!
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Flushing a wag bag into a septic system is going to cause a back-up. Or any type of kitty litter product.
Around here, winter poop is going to get snowed on and then thaw out so many times during the winter it will be gone come spring. Obviously one wants the placement well off trail. Wipes and TP need to be burned or carried out. Also kicking the brick into the right area helps.
Daddyjim
02-08-2015, 01:53
Why not use rv toilet paper...it is suppose to be biodegradeable?
Another Kevin
02-08-2015, 17:01
Most toilet paper is biodegradable - it's just cellulose, after all. But it often takes a very long time to degrade, particularly if it makes it to the surface. Make sure a cathole is deep enough. In winter, try to get used to using a snowball: once you get over the initial shock, it's surprisingly refreshing and cleans effectively.
I figure if I am somewhere only sunlight will breakdown the "tp" and I have to resort to smear technique (rocky places) I could use Eco Select, travelsize biodegradable wipes said to entirely breakdown in two weeks.
I did purchase one package. It is non-alcohol and unscented.
However, I have never had the need to leave the wipes.
I have OPsak.
Out here in the west, many if not most of us use "wag bags", "blue bags", many names for the same thing, basically a double or triple bag for your poop. We do this for short trips, like weekends, one or two poops. Longer trips, well, as already said, let nature do its thing, but well off trail. and pack out the TP for sure.
+1
In the Eastern woodlands as well, I use WAG bags for weekend trips when ground is frozen and pack them out. If there is good snow cover, the ground is often thawed under the snow and a cathole can still be dug. In this case I might save my WAG bag for the next time.
If camel dung can be used as fuel, then it is only a matter of time before human "dung", can be burned, not only for disposal but also to heat up the morning coffee.
Dual purpose Dung anyone?
rocketsocks
02-11-2015, 18:01
If camel dung can be used as fuel, then it is only a matter of time before human "dung", can be burned, not only for disposal but also to heat up the morning coffee.
Dual purpose Dung anyone?
Ya mean it's dual duty?
As for toilet paper, I have found that nature's TP , leaves, work just fine and along with the use of water rather than paper is not only cleaner, less of an eyesore and more degradable but also makes for one happy pair of buttocks !
I am reminded of the time in the Smokeys at a shelter when the ridge runner directed hikers in one particular direction in order to take a poop....heading out there, all was beautiful....heading back, I couldn't help but notice the OTHER side of each tree....multiple pieces of toilet paper blowing in the wind where it had not been buried properly. Ahh!
Right, dual doody, uh, duty....
squeezebox
02-11-2015, 23:43
Leaves = hiker stink, norovirus