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fastfoxengineering
02-05-2015, 18:02
So I'm in the market for a new head piece. I have a Smartwool Cuffed Merino Beanie which is pretty comfortable and warm. However, as I get keep getting the "go lighter and lighter" bug. I'm looking at lighter alternatives. My merino beanie weighs 2.02 ounces. It's pretty heavy as I see most fleece beanies are right around an ounce.

I have my eyes on a Patagonia Capilene 4 Beanie. Everyone is claiming it's pretty warm and is listed at 0.7 ounces.

So, can anyone give me some advice. The 1.3 ounce weight savings is why I'm really giving this some thought.

Just Bill
02-05-2015, 18:14
Very happy with my Cap 4.
As a grid fleece- poor wind resistance but that makes it more versatile IMO as long as you have a wind shell hood somewhere in your system (Houdini for me) when you need it to be warmest. When moving, leave the hood off and you get something closer to a Cap 2 beanie in terms of warmth.

Damn near every trip- Skirt, Merino 1 top, Houdini, Cap 4 hat. Typically it's the hat, not the windshell that I take on/off as I move. I run hot, but this hat under a hood is usually it for me into the upper 20's.

Only big problem- you hardly ever find them on sale- more importantly, I don't see them listed at the moment, just a balaclava.

fastfoxengineering
02-05-2015, 18:48
Very happy with my Cap 4.
As a grid fleece- poor wind resistance but that makes it more versatile IMO as long as you have a wind shell hood somewhere in your system (Houdini for me) when you need it to be warmest. When moving, leave the hood off and you get something closer to a Cap 2 beanie in terms of warmth.

Damn near every trip- Skirt, Merino 1 top, Houdini, Cap 4 hat. Typically it's the hat, not the windshell that I take on/off as I move. I run hot, but this hat under a hood is usually it for me into the upper 20's.

Only big problem- you hardly ever find them on sale- more importantly, I don't see them listed at the moment, just a balaclava.

I have noticed the same thing. I can find them at random websites but all for a lot of money. $25+ shipping is a little steep. I wonder why Patagonia isn't listing them.

saltysack
02-05-2015, 19:25
Don't get older version cap Beenie...mine doest cover my ears...I love my cap 4 hoodie....great buy...I get to hot to wear a Beenie while hiking but the hoodie is easy to vent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gbolt
02-05-2015, 19:32
I am very pleased with my Mtn Hardware Microdome at .80 oz 23 grams $13 (Amazon Sale) for Hiking and when I don't care about sweat or wetness.

I also have a Schampa silkweight Balaclava 1.05 oz 29g that cost $11.02 cents - (Amazon again) Used more for face and neck than head and I may switch out for a buff if I could find one lighter than 29 grams.

I don't like Hoods and use Top Quilts in a Hammock; so no mummy bag head protection. Sunday I ordered a Black Rock Original Down Cap .952 oz 27g $65 (Free Shipping). It just arrived today! :jump That was quick and included a personal note from Evan! :banana

I have learned that Covering and Venting my Bald Head does more for my body core temperature than any other peice of equiptment. I walk on a regular bases to figure out what equiptment will work at which temperature in Metro Parks so that I am ready for the Trail. Therefore, I have honed my head gear down to the above and am more than satisfied that I have a temperature range covered. I hate being cold and at those weights...I don't mind the heavy head gear. :clap

July
02-05-2015, 19:53
Also checkout zpacks, fleece bean is around an ounce. I bought two but have worn just one for the past few years, it is gettin a little thin from all the washings.

Just Bill
02-05-2015, 20:23
I have noticed the same thing. I can find them at random websites but all for a lot of money. $25+ shipping is a little steep. I wonder why Patagonia isn't listing them.

Unfortunately, IIRC, they are $30 to start, $15-20 on sale. If you have them by you, Dick's Sporting Goods is one of the vendors Patagonia sells unsold/overstock stuff to.

Patagonia stuff is very seasonal, as in, buy it that season or you're outta luck. They carry almost nothing as "stock" even the constant stuff is always switching colors or getting issued as special editions. It may not have even been offered this season, I don't see it on the women's sale site either.

The nice thing is there is a sale every few months, the not nice thing is that the good stuff is often gone by the time the sale comes around.

Mags
02-05-2015, 22:04
Don't know the exact weight, but would something like this work as well?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PV040TG/ref=asc_df_B00PV040TG3527055?smid=A1HVX4F8BRJFYR&tag=shopz0d-20&ascsubtag=shopzilla_mp_1388-20;14231881072805641209810060302008005&linkCode=df0&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B00PV040TG

or even this?
http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Men-s-Stretch-Earband-Beanie/dp/B00OSKNC0S/ref=cts_ap_1_fbt


The C9 clothing is pretty good. Looks VERY similar to the cap 4 beanie.

At the very least, you may be able to go to your local Tar-zhey and weigh it?

fastfoxengineering
02-05-2015, 22:16
I think I'm gonna watch some stores and see if I can pick up a Cap 4 beanie or Microdome on the cheap.

I hate how everything always has Manufacturers Emblems printed so boldly.

I miss my surplus store fleece beanie. I had a nice carhartt one two. Left it at a movie theater, ruined the rest of the day for me.

I do think I'm gonna enjoy a fleece beanie more than my merino one. Not just for the weight savings.

daddytwosticks
02-06-2015, 08:17
I have an older Mountain Hardware fleece beany. Weights 0.9 ounces and is very warm. I carry it on every hike, even in the dead of summer down south here. I think it cost less than $20 at REI. Love it. :)

gbolt
02-06-2015, 10:20
My Moutain Hardware Microdome doesn't really have a bold emblem - more like pressed material image that is not obtrusive at all. I know what you mean by a BOLD Emblem and I do not care for those either. No worries with the Microdome.

Connie
02-06-2015, 11:31
Select: weight, wind or rain resistant, style, color DIY/MYOG

Fleece
http://www.owfinc.com/fabrics.html

Fleece
http://therainshed.com

Patterns
http://www.thegreenpepper.com/hats.html?id=HmRnXtNh

thread, needles, elastic, trim etc.

Just Bill
02-06-2015, 11:42
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/65679

Closest substitute I could find.

Capeline 4 is Polartec Power Dry High Efficiency. It is a variation on the original "R1" grid fleece. The pattern is almost reversed (grid size to open space). The LLBEAN hat above is likely closer to an R1 hat than a Cap4. You might have a store near you that you could get one in hand and see. I suspect though you'll find it's a basic grid fleece, I don't think anyone but Patagonia has the Cap4 flavor of this fabric.

Dochartaigh
02-06-2015, 11:42
What size hat are you? I'm 7 and 3/4, and I've literally ordered 7 or 8 beanies and returned them all because not a single one fit me. Finally settled on the greenish Polartech fleece surplus one (which just barely covers my ears...bottoms still stick out a touch). It was $10 and weighs 1.17 ounces (they're available on eBay all the time).

saltysack
02-06-2015, 11:49
I bought a turtle fur fleece Beenie last year after others reccs......way warmer than my pstagoochie Beenie...definitely heavier but covers ears and some...blaze orange for hunting season hikes....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fastfoxengineering
02-06-2015, 11:56
What size hat are you? I'm 7 and 3/4, and I've literally ordered 7 or 8 beanies and returned them all because not a single one fit me. Finally settled on the greenish Polartech fleece surplus one (which just barely covers my ears...bottoms still stick out a touch). It was $10 and weighs 1.17 ounces (they're available on eBay all the time).

I don't know my head size exactly, but I always know I size one up from "normal" when it comes to ball caps and most skull caps and stuff are tight on me. I prefer full coverage with my beanies. I like when the fully cover my ears, have length in the back, and when pullled down tonight pretty much cover my eyebrows.

My old fleece surplus beanie did exactly that. Quite comfortable too. I think the tag inside just said polartech. It was foliage green and cost $10. Lost it before I ever took it backpacking though. My next hat I bought is my current one, the smartwool cuffed beanie.

The Capilene 4 Beanie seemed to be like the Cadillac, then the mountain hardware, then the old trusty surplus hat.

decisions, decisions.

Mags
02-06-2015, 12:14
The surplus fleece beanie can be found in many places.

Here's a similar one from Amazon in array of colors. I have a grey one and it is warm, light and very affordable. Runs large as well.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007M67JQI/ref=twister_B0014S9I5A $6 shipped.

Just Bill
02-06-2015, 12:18
You might find the Cap4 a hair small/short.
It will get to your earlobes with a good tug, but it's fairly minimal in size. It fits me best about mid ear and only goes to the nape of your neck. Most often it will creep up and end up above your ears like a ball cap would.
It's not generously cut- it's meant to be something light you slip on under other garments. If you want a HAT hat, this isn't it- I'd call this a beanie.

It's meant to be a "liner" hat for winter- but the size and fabric make it a perfect three season hat for me personally and great in combo with a wind shell hood. I like being able to regulate my temps with a hat over slipping on or carrying other clothing.

fastfoxengineering
02-06-2015, 12:23
Hey Mags, I think the actual issue stuff is made by Polartec.

Rothco, Condor, and other brands like that aren't true USGI.

And after owning some Rothco/Condor items.. I believe they are inferior products to actual usgi stuff. I never bought them, but received some condor magazine pouches for a run-n-gun competition from my neighbor. They were torn up by the end of they day.

fastfoxengineering
02-06-2015, 12:28
You might find the Cap4 a hair small/short.
It will get to your earlobes with a good tug, but it's fairly minimal in size. It fits me best about mid ear and only goes to the nape of your neck. Most often it will creep up and end up above your ears like a ball cap would.
It's not generously cut- it's meant to be something light you slip on under other garments. If you want a HAT hat, this isn't it- I'd call this a beanie.

It's meant to be a "liner" hat for winter- but the size and fabric make it a perfect three season hat for me personally and great in combo with a wind shell hood. I like being able to regulate my temps with a hat over slipping on or carrying other clothing.

Good to know. The Cap 4 beanie may not be for me after all. I would like something that breathes well, but I need something to sleep in as well. I use a top quilt so I have no insulation around my head unless wearing a hat, buff, or hooded puffy.

I find I wear a hat to bed once the temp dips below 65 degrees.

Just Bill your a hammock hanger correct? How do you insulate your head when hanging?

Mags
02-06-2015, 12:38
I can't speak for the other items, but I find fleece is pretty much fleece overal esp when it comes to beanies. YMMV. (Jackets, there is a difference, but not sure how much really)

Anyway, just one suggestion that may or may not work for you.

Connie
02-06-2015, 12:39
Here is a merino toque. 1.6 oz. $27

http://www.mysteryranch.com/hunting/hunting-ranch-gear/merino-toque


My previous post shows differences in fleece.

The hat patterns should have one that fits.

If you know someone who has a sewing machine, it is a relatively easy sewing project. In fact, a beanie or a toque might be handsewn.

Dochartaigh
02-06-2015, 12:49
My old fleece surplus beanie did exactly that. Quite comfortable too. I think the tag inside just said polartech. It was foliage green and cost $10. Lost it before I ever took it backpacking though. My next hat I bought is my current one, the smartwool cuffed beanie.

The Capilene 4 Beanie seemed to be like the Cadillac, then the mountain hardware, then the old trusty surplus hat.



What I'm saying is the Surplus hat fits me better than any other. Everything else (Mountain Hardwear, Columbia, North Face, Marmot, Outdoor Research, etc. etc. etc.) didn't even cover half of my ears. I think that by design a "beanie" isn't meant to cover your ears completely (it's more like a skull cap - probably interchangeable terms) - i.e. any of the ones mentioned here may not fit you...and if you want it to fit as you say (low enough to cover everything, down to your eyebrows, and be long in the back), something like that certainly isn't going to weigh around an ounce and be warm at all.

fastfoxengineering
02-06-2015, 12:50
Here is a merino toque. 1.6 oz. $27

http://www.mysteryranch.com/hunting/hunting-ranch-gear/merino-toque

Thanks for your input, however I want to go lighter. I really do like my merino beanie, but I also love fleece, I'm really not partial to either. I noticed MANY ultra lighters were packing a fleece beanie and it never occurred to me that they weigh half as much as merino and do what you need a hat to do.

In the end, this is really about saving an ounce of weight, but not losing functionality. Plus fleece is just so damn cozy.

Thanks Connie! I'm looking into doing alot more DIY too. Gonna build my next hammock setup from scratch. Looking forward to it.

Just Bill
02-06-2015, 13:59
Good to know. The Cap 4 beanie may not be for me after all. I would like something that breathes well, but I need something to sleep in as well. I use a top quilt so I have no insulation around my head unless wearing a hat, buff, or hooded puffy.

I find I wear a hat to bed once the temp dips below 65 degrees.

Just Bill your a hammock hanger correct? How do you insulate your head when hanging?

LOL, now we're getting into the real question...
Yar, I am playing with Hammocks. I've got 40-50 nights in so far, but all in the last few months (cold, and colder temps)

Doc pretty well called it IMO. A beanie is more like a skull cap- basic lid coverage.
The Cap 4 is my go to hat- all seasons except high summer (70+ at night). It is the first hat that goes into my layering system and I wear it all day as needed to stretch my warmth in basic summer gear (skirt and t-shirt). It becomes my base layer as temps hit 40's, but I often wear it alone while hiking into the 20's.

Next up is a buff- I make my own- but it will add face/neck/ear coverage.
Because of my long hair though, I find a Buff handy all around. Easy to wash/wet also for daytime cooling in three season conditions also. This piece will bridge me into three season conditions without the bulk of a fleece hat.

A fleece hat usually goes next- not all fleece is fleece. 100, 150, 200 wt are all common. Typically they will be a single layer in 200 wt, although most fleece hats in lighter weight give you a double layer (built in headband/earwarmer) by folding up the bottom. GoLite is a common one.

When we are talking actually cold (30's and down) I add a full balaclava to my system, typically a 200wt fleece. The advantage to fleece (or synthetic fill) is that you won't crush it out laying on it.

That said- eventually- I will either make or buy a version of the Zpacks hood. http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/gooosehood.shtml
For quilt users (ground or air) this in combo with a liner beanie would be good to the 20's. Also a more realistic combo IMO. When moving you are unlikely to wear more than a beanie and a shell hood. When not moving, you're sleeping, so might as well not screw around and simply pile on one good balaclava.

In the hammock specifically-I will make this out of synthetic. Otherwise you have a cold spot in your hammock if you use the down version and your head is outside of your UQ. You could stick a scrap of foam in the down version, but I move too often to make this work. On the ground, my head is on some insulation (pad/food bag/ect.) but in the hammock I have my UQ's designed to only go to my shoulders to save weight.

IF you were looking for a one shot do it all- the Cap4 balaclava (in combo with a wind shell hood) might do the job and it is available this season. Likely that would be enough for a typical Thru (with maybe cheap fleece hat if you are out early and may see some 20's, or as a safety add-on in the whites). Likely it is flexible enough to be worn as a hat, but probably not a good one.

Personally- A one ounce hat does more for me during the day than any spare shirt could ever do.
Skirt- 2 ounces, Merino 1 top, 6 oz, Houdini, 4oz, Cap4 hat, 1oz.
Basically the Cap4 hat replaces a Cap 2 shirt (5.5oz) for me when moving. In cooler three season a vest or jacket is added as a safety piece.

That system takes me into the 30s when hiking. For my LD hiking style- when I hit camp I typically get in bed. I'd rather have ounces invested in quilt and bed hat than other items. Bumping a quilt up 10* is much lighter than clothing, and adding a good 2-3 ounces of warm hat is much lighter than bumping up 10* more to be sure.

gbolt
02-06-2015, 17:57
+1 for Just Bill.

Very close to my system - Mountain Hardward Microdome .80 oz for Hiking Day Use.
Schampa Silkweight Balaclava for face covering - but really could shift to a Buff if I find one weighing less than 1.05 oz and cheaper than $13.
Black Rock Original Down Hat .952 oz $65 for Sleeping in the Hammock at night and extreme weather in camp. Oh, and to keep up with Shug! Can't beat him - dress like him! lol

All this replaced a Warm Lightweight Fleece from Antigravity Gear. I wear that to shovel snow and day hike in, so i can look gooood on the Trail!

Connie
02-06-2015, 19:17
Check this out.

http://antigravitygear.com/shop/clothing/maxit-headgator-6-in-1/

1.3 oz.

fastfoxengineering
02-07-2015, 22:51
Just ordered a new black cap 4 beanie for 19 beans shipped. If its not for me it'll make a nice present.

QiWiz
02-11-2015, 16:49
So I'm in the market for a new head piece. I have a Smartwool Cuffed Merino Beanie which is pretty comfortable and warm. However, as I get keep getting the "go lighter and lighter" bug. I'm looking at lighter alternatives. My merino beanie weighs 2.02 ounces. It's pretty heavy as I see most fleece beanies are right around an ounce.

I have my eyes on a Patagonia Capilene 4 Beanie. Everyone is claiming it's pretty warm and is listed at 0.7 ounces.

So, can anyone give me some advice. The 1.3 ounce weight savings is why I'm really giving this some thought.

The best beanie I own is made from Possumdown (mixture of possum fur and merino wool, made in New Zealand). It's the warmest option for the weight IMO that you can hike in. For around camp or sleeping, a down beanie is the warmest/lightest option, but I would not hike in it (sweat, rain, etc. not OK).

BlackRock
02-13-2015, 16:55
Hey guys,

I had a few customers recently tell me they saw posts up over here leading them to our gear and with a sale on today I came over to make a post. Then I saw this great thread on lightweight beanies and figured I might just join in. It's been a while since I posted up over here, but couldn't pass up a discussion on lightweight head gear...

So go figure, we make the warmest super ultralight beanie around :) It's not some cheap fleece beanie, so it's not for everyone, but we make our down beanies out of ultrasoft and light ripstop nylon and fill it with only the best goose down I can get. Our current batch is a grey goose down that tested out to 940fp.

Today I just posted up the one and only pre-hiking season sale over at MassDrop.com. BlackRock Gear Beanie on MassDrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/black-rock-gear-original-down-hat)

You can see all of our gear at BlackRockGear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com). The main piece we sell though is our Original down hat. It weighs just under 22 grams for your average medium hat and includes a dry line headband that wicks the sweat away. We've been making these guys since 2008 and have had many Thru-hikers go up and down both the PCT and the AT. I've even had the hat up Everest twice and to the top of K2, McKinley and a number of other high points around the country.

It's simply one of the lightest and most comfy beanies around. Sewn to be a nice deep fit with great coverage the hat keeps you so toasty warm many customers tell me their head never knew it went outside. It compresses into nothing and is a great piece to add to your pack for nearly no weight. For a warmth comparison I usually describe it as warmer than your standard heavy weight wool ski beanie. It also sheds the rain, snow and sleet and hikes just great on the trail.

Dochartaigh
02-13-2015, 17:15
BlackRock, is the down itself DWR coated in your hat? With something that sweats as much as your head (or mine at least), I wouldn't dream of wearing a down hat that didn't have the new type of water-resistant down...that's the only thing that's holding me back from grabbing one of these.

BlackRock
02-13-2015, 17:27
BlackRock, is the down itself DWR coated in your hat? With something that sweats as much as your head (or mine at least), I wouldn't dream of wearing a down hat that didn't have the new type of water-resistant down...that's the only thing that's holding me back from grabbing one of these.

Absolutely not. I am not very impressed with the DWR treated down. I've been testing it now for about 3yrs and I currently still believe it's nothing more than a gimmick. High grade goose down is amazing stuff. It can handle a lot of moisture without wetting out. The ripstop material we use is DWR treated to keep most of the moisture out and the headband is pretty thick to take most of your sweat from your head. When I first released the hats about 6yrs ago most people were worried about the hat wetting out. So far I've yet to have anyone want to return one because it didn't simply keep them warm. :)

It's just so small and breathable that wetting it out isn't a problem. If you are working hard you are pumping a lot of heat into the hat which just continues to keep it's loft and keep you warm. I used to even take my own hats out and run a 5mile loop in them in the winter when it was raining to test and even with heavy sweating I could only just start to wet it out right around my forehead.

It's hard to convince people of it, but everyone with a BRG hat tells me it's the ONLY thing they wear out on the trail. We've also had it up Everest twice, including a trip up K2 and a number of high points in the US along with full trips up and down both the PCT and the AT. I've even had the guys from Expedition Arguk use the hats on a huge pack rafting trip along the coast up north checking out ice melt and have had a few guided trips take them down the entire Grand Canyon. If you ever soak a hat completely just clip it to the outside of your pack and watch it dry over a couple hours.

gbolt
02-13-2015, 19:05
I posted earlier in this thread, but would like to add that Ordering and Shipping was easy and fast. Ordered on a Sunday Night - Informed that that a shipping label was processed Monday Morning and then able to track the shipment that arrived in Mail Box by USPS on Thursday. Would have been quicker but West Coast to Ohio.

The hat is very light .958 oz Lg on my scale and compresses very flat for storage in a pocket or the stuff sac with my Montbell UL.

Please remember that down feathers are from Geese that do spend a great deal of time in and around water. They naturally repel and repair themselves. I forgot about the driline headband that is soft and just seemed to be part of the shell of the hat and not a separate important feature.

Once I saw Shug wearing and talking about his, I started researching and planning to purchase one. So glad I did. My only regret, after reading Black Rocks posts, is that I may not have needed to purchase another Micro Beanie and now will have to decide if I am taking both or just the Origninal Down Hat on hikes in the future. Was planning to only use the Down Hat in the Hammock at night.

This sweating out is interesting to read about.

BlackRock
02-13-2015, 22:25
Thanks GBolt! We try to ship everything ASAP. It's not easy, but we work to keep ahead of demand so most things are stocked. It looks like there are only two hats left in the MassDrop sale.

If it closes up tonight and I can get shipping info and payment from MassDrop I'll have the gear shipped out in the mail tomorrow! Go get em!