Sleeping Pads, Air Mattresses

[Bill_in_TR]

I am trying to get back into some backpacking after many years away from it. I would mostly be doing pretty fair weather trips during the warmer months for now so I don't need serious cold weather insulation. Being an older guy of 68 years a very important consideration is sleeping comfort. I am looking at air mattresses right now and have considered 4 of them: Eureka Singlis, Thermarest NeoAir, Klymit Static V and Big Agnes Air Core. I am using Campmor as a comparison point while trying to decide. What I am trying to reconcile is price vs specs on these things.

The Singlis is available for $29. NeoAir is $89. Static V is $57. Air Core is $59. They all weigh from 20 to 22 oz. with the Singlis being the heaviest at 22. The biggest difference is in the NeoAir. Is 2 oz. worth $60? I have had Eureka equipment in the past. As a matter of fact I still have a Eureka 2 person dome that is still in fine shape after over 20 years. These air mattresses are all in the 2.5 to 3.25 inch thickness range and online reviews are favorable on the comfort level of all of them.

Can anyone comment on why they would choose any one of these over the other?

[Starchild]

The NeoAir that I know for regular size is 13oz and about $160. It worked very well for me.

I did not like the Big A Q-core or Air core (actually the Air Core is my car camping pad, the Q-Core wnt back to REI)

[Bill_in_TR]

I guess I should clarify. The NeoAir I looked at was the Trekker air mattress, regular size listed on Campmor. One big thing I am trying to find out is why pay more than the $29 for the Singlis. I am looking mainly at pure air mattresses not anything self inflating or using any kind of foam. And my budget is not about to let me spend $160 on a sleeping pad.

[katie719]

Campsaver.com has a coupon for 20% any full price item. I just got the Big Agnes Air Core for my husband (he's 6'1 and 230lbs). From the research I did- it's highly recommended. Got it for $47 :).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill_in_TR]

I checked on Campsaver web site but did not see any sign of a 20% off coupon. Did I miss something?

[Just Bill]

I guess I should clarify. The NeoAir I looked at was the Trekker air mattress, regular size listed on Campmor. One big thing I am trying to find out is why pay more than the $29 for the Singlis. I am looking mainly at pure air mattresses not anything self inflating or using any kind of foam. And my budget is not about to let me spend $160 on a sleeping pad.

Don't know the singlis model- guessing it's just a tougher pool toy for $30.
Unless you are talking high summer only- you're going to need some insulation in your pad. IIRC the air core is a very low R value pad also. You'd have to put a foam pad down first to insulate you from the ground around 50* or so to make them work. R1 won't get you far temp wise- but fine for summer.

The NeoAir is typically warm into three seasons, after that you need a winter pad.
REI has some pads similar (cheaper but heavier) also.

You may want to wait a bit too. http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/
Not out yet (I believe?), but some folks are excited about these.
Low R value for the weight IMO, but a bit better width and design than the neo-air series.

[mark schofield]

what about a WalMart blue foam pad. Quite cheap and light

[Bill_in_TR]

All four of the pads I listed are pure air mattresses with R values around one or slightly higher. I know that none of them are suitable for cold weather. They are all within an ounce or two of each other weight wise. I believe the air core is available in a 66 inch length for about 17 oz so there is some weight savings. I have looked at all of the closed cell foam mattresses. I even had one until a coupe of years ago but it just was not comfortable for me.

I am trying to ease back into this backpacking. Perhaps I am asking these questions of the wrong gang of backpackers since this site seems to be primarily inhabited by AT through hikers. But genernally speaking, as I have lurked here, I get the impression of a lot of nice folks sharing a lot of knowledge. I live in SC and plan on doing this years backpacking during the warmer months. If I do well on the backpacking trips I am going to try this year I will expand my efforts next year.

I was able to look at a Singlis and a NeoAir Trekker and don't see any obvious significant difference in quality of appearance. The most obvious difference is the direction of the baffles in the mattress. But the other two have baffles in the same direction as the Singlis so that would seem to indicate that baffle direction is not a quality indicator since the other two manufacturers have excellent reputations.

I am not trying to go cheap for cheap's sake but with a limited budget for my equipment I need to maximize value when I buy something. I cannot see paying an extra $60 to save 2 oz.

[Starchild]

...


You may want to wait a bit too. http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/
Not out yet (I believe?), but some folks are excited about these.
Low R value for the weight IMO, but a bit better width and design than the neo-air series.

Those look interesting. Hard to find the width of them but the lightest one is 2 in thick. The inflate valve looks very hard to inflate with the mouth, it appears like you need to carry their pump.

[Just Bill]

LOL, yar advice here is generally a bit biased to thru stuff.
You are aware of the R value and making that call, that's all that matters. The only caution I'd share on that considering a budget is that you may end up buying twice as you get into three season stuff more. And even in the relatively lower elevations out east you can still find some chillier nights in the summer. But a 1/4" foam pad under your R1 stuff will do the job without breaking the bank.

Baffle direction is a comfort/aesthetic choice. Most prefer the vertical baffles, the Neo-Air style insulates a bit better because the smaller chambers reduce convection losses internally.

Quality has to do with the fabric used, and more importantly- how it's welded and made. Cheap valves leak or crack if you kneel on them. Cheap heat welds pop or delaminate. Good RF welding is expensive but pretty bombproof. Neo-Air pads are easy to patch in the field, a cheapie less so.

The Singlis is a $30 gamble IMO- could be great, could leak first trip out. REI or good retailer would provide some protection. Many folks still use Wally world pool mattresses for $10 or so if you really want to cheap out.

Big Agnes or Kymit are trusted brands for little more, and available at good retailers. I would stick with a name brand and good retailer. REI will give you a year to return- no questions asked.

With all the air pads- keep in mind that a 20" neo air ends up 18" wide when blown up. All the numbers are uninflated and you loose a bit of width once blown up. Try before you buy. Side sleepers and minimalists deal with the 18" (20") pads. Many find them too narrow though, especially men who back sleep. You can put your shoes under your elbows to compensate, but most prefer just to get a wider pad.

Big Agnes makes a more traditional pad.
Klymit's pads are neat, and work for many folks. But the specialized design doesn't fit everyone, especially if you side sleep or toss and turn. IMO- there are also way more seams and stress points to fail. For summer no biggie, but not everyone finds that their bag "fills" the holes as planned and they experience cold spots.

Best deal I see- http://www.rei.com/product/871750/big-agnes-oak-street-air-pad-regular-special-buy#tab-specs
Bit thin so probably out- but solves the R value buy twice issue- http://www.rei.com/product/865152/therm-a-rest-trail-scout-sleeping-pad#tab-specs
Cadillac pad in wide- http://www.rei.com/product/873463/big-agnes-double-z-air-sleeping-pad#tab-specs

[Bill_in_TR]

I hear you about the width issues. I would gladly sacrifice some length for extra width in order to keep size and weight under control. But for some reason nobody seems to make a wide but shorter mattress. I only need padding under my hips and shoulders and maybe a little down at the knees. But I am a side sleeper and need some reasonably decent padding. Another thing that concerns me is that as I read reviews on air mattresses on the various sites I am visiting virtually all of the air mattresses have people complaining about leaks. I have seen this on every mattress from cheap to expensive. I would expect that the problem with leaks is more frequent with the cheaper mattresses but there are more than enough such complaints on even the expensive ones.

[Connie]

Sea to Summit has air mattress worthy of consideration: the fact they inflate, deflate and pack up easily has been emphasized. 21.5" width.

http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/

I like my NeoAir and my XTherm: some technique and effort is required to get them ready to pack up. I paid $119.

[Just Bill]

I hear you about the width issues. I would gladly sacrifice some length for extra width in order to keep size and weight under control. But for some reason nobody seems to make a wide but shorter mattress. I only need padding under my hips and shoulders and maybe a little down at the knees. But I am a side sleeper and need some reasonably decent padding.

Another thing that concerns me is that as I read reviews on air mattresses on the various sites I am visiting virtually all of the air mattresses have people complaining about leaks. I have seen this on every mattress from cheap to expensive. I would expect that the problem with leaks is more frequent with the cheaper mattresses but there are more than enough such complaints on even the expensive ones.

http://www.rei.com/product/865155/therm-a-rest-neoair-trekker-sleeping-pad#tab-specs- there are others out there, just not in your lower price range.
If you're willing to double up and deal with bulk- a good blue foamie from REI and a cheap blue foamy from Wally world can be combined and cut to size for a pretty comfy package at reasonable cost/width.

Everything breaks at some point. :D
You noticed you found many happy Neo-Air users. Reduced failure is why.
Many folks have several thousand miles on them at this point...

Any air pad-
Don't "doos it" on the pad. :banana
Don't fully inflate it.
Don't flop down hard on it- many folks not used to sleeping on the ground are also not used to laying down on the ground. It ain't a bed- don't flop down hard like your mattress at home.
Bring a ground sheet- especially if you plan to sleep in shelters.
Carry a patch kit and know how to use it.

Roll it up gentle like- it isn't critical to get every dram of air outta the thing to pack it, or to get it back to the factory vacume packed original size. Most damage not related to popping it is from packing it. People wring, kneel, smash and stomp these in the field for no good reason all the time.

If you're truly concerned- there's a reason Therm-a-rest still sells lots of self inflaters and foamies- you're not alone in your cost or durability issues.

[lemon b]

I have 2 of the 4 mentioned. A Big Agnes and the neo air. Paid 130 for the neo air when they first came out. R Value is 2.5, Very compact very comfortable. I have 3 Big Agnes 2 full size and a 3/4. Only issue is they can be a bit slippery. I'm a back sleeper so if I get the head right it works just fine. To be honest I use the neo air more and lend out the Big Agnes's. In colder weather I just use a standard Campmor roll up pad and put it under the neo air. Might bring me to a total R of 4. At 68 I'd go for the neo air as the cost has decreased and the rest is better. When I was a kid I often just used a piece of plastic as a "Pad". If I did that these days the back would be screaming.

[Odd Man Out]

I too was going to comment on width. Most pads are nominally 20" but the Static V is wider, which would be one thing that distinguishes it from the others. The trekker comes in a wide/torso length which I have used. It allows you to have a wide pad without having to have the extra length, but you have to get used to not having the padding under you legs. I stick my empty pack under my legs. For some reason, pad makers insist on making wide pads only in long lengths, which adds unnecessary cost and weight for those who are normal height. You might also consider the amount of air it takes to inflate. I think the Static V design can be inflated faster.

[Okie Dokie]

The NeoAir is a good choice...worth the weight, and I felt like I was sleeping at home it was so comfortable...I picked up a brand new one, still in the box, on ebay in January for $60.00...best equipment buy I've made in some years...the model I got--can't remember at the moment;it's packed away in the attic--is 25 inches wide and short torso...I'd recommend getting that width, for any sort of sleeper...
If you're patient you can work ebay for some pretty sweet deals...

[oldwetherman]

Bill in TR- I'm an old guy too and a restless, side sleeper. I like vertical baffles. My suggestion would be for you to drive up to REI that's just south of Asheville. They have a nice selection of pads that are already inflated. You can spend all the time you want laying on them and no one will even give you a second glance. The REI brand pads are reasonably priced.

[Connie]

I got my NeoAir (and, when I got my XTherm) I started with it partially inflated, then, let air out a little at a time.

I got it to the point my hip did not touch thru to the hard floor, then, it was "just right".

[Drybones]

Sea to Summit has air mattress worthy of consideration: the fact they inflate, deflate and pack up easily has been emphasized. 21.5" width.

http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/

I like my NeoAir and my XTherm: some technique and effort is required to get them ready to pack up. I paid $119.

I found it interesting that Sea-t-Summit doesn't tell how thick it is...a most important consideration for me.

[Bill_in_TR]

I appreciate all of the comments I have received. Oldwetherman suggested a ride up to Asheville to REI. Fortunately I can visit the REI here in Greenville, SC. I live in Travelers Rest, SC, an the REI in Greenville is a short drive. I will have to see what they have available. We have a couple of other outfitters near us as well but so far they all seem to stock only the Thermarest products. I am trying to stay under $75 on this purchase. As much under as possible but I realize prices are much higher on equipment these days than when I last did any backpacking. Quite frankly if I needed to buy all new equipment and keep it reasonably light weight today I might not be able to get back into anything much more than day hikes and an occasional overnighter in really good weather conditions.

[LogHiking]

This might be hard to believe, but I've tried nearly every pad with the exception of a few expeds (out of your desired price range anyway) and the most comfortable pad I have every laid on is a klymit x wave torso pad. I generally don't prefer torso pads but this one adds some features in that eliminate my problems with them. Most notably a gradual slope to the ground on the bottom half of the pad so you don't feel a noticeable drop to the ground once the pad ends like with the neo air torso pads I've tried.

I sleep on an Thermarest xtherm in the winter which is 2.5inches thick and generally regarded as very comfy. While it is very comfy, I can't wait for it to warm up so I can go back to the Klymit.
The price is right so if you can try one I highly suggest you do so.

http://www.amazon.com/Klymit-Inertia-X-Wave-Pad/dp/B00CLJGRWI

I use the X wave and bring a small CCF (closed cell foam, basically a foam mat) sit pad that I use around camp but also under my legs or under the klymit if I feel I needed it, but I've never felt the need.

[Starchild]

I found it interesting that Sea-t-Summit doesn't tell how thick it is...a most important consideration for me.

It's in the Video. The UL two are 2 in thick. The rest is 2.5

[Just Bill]

All the specs are available on their site- http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/
Including a decent video. Folks who saw them at the recent gear show seem to like them and consider the series as a good competitor to the Neo-air series.
The double layer (split) looks the most innovative to me. Weights and sizes are comparable, and may favor the Neo-Air, but if the non-baffle design proves to be superior in terms of comfort...the weight difference is not a factor.

The bottom line- the prices are not available yet.
The Spark series of bags was also very exciting, but faced availability issues the first year (and to this day really).

I think you might as well forget them for this year unless something big happens you will probably not see one on a store shelf to try out.

You may not even get one if you "go for it". I tried to get a spark 1 to try last year but after 6 weeks on back order- REI gave up and sent me a notice telling me they couldn't get it and cancelled the order.

[fastfoxengineering]

I'm gonna be that guy. But I can't help it when people, especially older people, are looking for and need greater comfort when they hike/camp.

It's completely understandable. I, at 24 years young, think that all ground air mattresses are not "comfortable". Comfy enough for me to sleep on for sure, but nothing like a real bed. After a long day of hiking I could sleep on a rock.

However, the most comfort I've ever gotten in the woods is sleeping in my hammock. And most older people say that their hammock is the one thing that allows them to still enjoy the great outdoors. Head over to hammockforums.net and browse a little. See if it's something you'd be interested in.

Sorry guys, but I had too. How can you not recommend a hammock to someone seeking greater comfort on the trail.

[LogHiking]

I'm gonna be that guy. But I can't help it when people, especially older people, are looking for and need greater comfort when they hike/camp.

It's completely understandable. I, at 24 years young, think that all ground air mattresses are not "comfortable". Comfy enough for me to sleep on for sure, but nothing like a real bed. After a long day of hiking I could sleep on a rock.

However, the most comfort I've ever gotten in the woods is sleeping in my hammock. And most older people say that their hammock is the one thing that allows them to still enjoy the great outdoors. Head over to hammockforums.net and browse a little. See if it's something you'd be interested in.

Sorry guys, but I had too. How can you not recommend a hammock to someone seeking greater comfort on the trail.

I agree a hammock is an excellent option for him as far as comfort. But based on the information he has given us, an over hall of gear and technique didn't strike me as something he wants right now. There is a large learning curve with getting into hanging (I'm an ex hanger but big supporter of it, I'll probably go back when comfort becomes a bigger issue) not to mention a lot of his current usable gear won't be usable and he will have to basically start over with his shelter and sleep system. Based on this thread and his other one there is a good chance he isn't ready for that leap.

With that said OP, yes hammocks are more comfortable than laying on the ground for most. Hammockforums.net is a great place to get started researching and seeing if it might be for you.

[Franco]

From Bill :
"All four of the pads I listed are pure air mattresses with R values around one or slightly higher"
You asked about the $60 difference for the Therm A Rest Trekker, well it has about 3x more insulation than the others...
The Trekker is rated at R3 and yes an air only mat is about R1 .
In other words you would need to buy 3 of the others and stack them up to get the same insulation.
The insulation inside the Trekker is provided by its rather complex construction.

[CarlZ993]

Bill - I got the original NeoAir when it first came out. Used it a lot & enjoyed it. Somehow, someway, I got a very slow leak in it. I never could find it when I submerged it in a bath tub. On a camping trip, I'd add some extra air in it once during the middle of the night (I never sleep thru).

I have no experience with the Trekker or other pads listed. I'd recommend you get a pad w/ at least an R-value comparable with the Z-rest foam pad (2.2). You'll be able to tolerate a surprise cool or cold night much easier.

I upgraded to the NeoAir X-lite in late 2012 (both in the regular size - 20 X 72). I REALLY like this pad. It was much warmer & quieter than the original. And it cost more as well. I used it exclusively on my 2013 thru-hike. Worked like a champ. Still using it with no problems. On both pads, I have to deal with a little elbow drop to the ground. I almost wish I had the larger one sometimes.

A buddy of mine has the larger version of that pad. I've joked w/ him that I'd take his pad if he died on a hiking trip. He wouldn't even be cold before it was inside my pack. :)

[Franco]

CarlZ
From Thermarest :
Unless your mattress is going completely flat, it is unlikely that you have a leak. What you are noticing is the natural effect of cooling. The air you are inflating your mattress with is at body-temperature and, like all air, it contracts when cooled. A few more breaths once the mattress has cooled to ambient temperatures should suffice.

[shelb]

How can you not recommend a hammock to someone seeking greater comfort on the trail.

I would have loved a hammock when I was younger and a backsleeper; however, hammocks don't provide me with a good sleep these days. I am not sure if it is because I am "old" or because I only sleep on one side (or the other). --And, yes, I have tried hammocks... my sons are hammock sleepers. One of my sons actually has a hammock set-up in his room, for when he decides to sleep there instead of his bed!

[Bill_in_TR]

Thanks for all of the opinions and advice. I went to REI yesterday afternoon and was able to try a bunch of different air mattresses. From a pure comfort perspective just laying there on the floor the one I liked the best was the Big Agnes Air Core. I am a side sleeper and this one kept my hips completely suspended with no floor contact because it is 3.25 inches thick when inflated. It also does not have a slick surface that would lead to a lot of slipping and sliding and the outside two air tubes are slightly larger so you tend to stay in the middle. I know that a few minutes on the show room floor is not the definitive answer. The Air Core also came in well within my target price range at $59.

For those suggesting I look into hammocks I may do that some day but not now for a couple of reasons. One is that I have read mixed reviews on how comfortable they are for us side sleepers. Two is that I hike with my travelling companion, a Brittany, and need some floor space.

[lemon b]

Bill, you also have most of your equipment. The change over to hammock would cost some bucks. On the pack weight issue your base mentioned in another post is about the same as mine. I'm fine with it when I keep mileage in the 10-15 range. We all know keeping weight down is more a function of food and water. These days I plan many hikes around water. Of course, as we eat the total pack weight goes down. The price of new lightweight equipment is actually more than the tag when one also considers the durability factor. Like I've been checking out ZPacks products but refuse to pull the trigger because I'm not sure how long the equipment will last. My thought is that many ultra- light companies really target the hiker who is new, going a long distance. What I'm saying is the equipment is geared to last maybe one thru hike. But hey lets face it many of us have spent way more money on non hiking vacations. Dinner and drinks for two at a fancy joint can cost as much as a neo air.

[LogHiking]

Thanks for all of the opinions and advice. I went to REI yesterday afternoon and was able to try a bunch of different air mattresses. From a pure comfort perspective just laying there on the floor the one I liked the best was the Big Agnes Air Core. I am a side sleeper and this one kept my hips completely suspended with no floor contact because it is 3.25 inches thick when inflated. It also does not have a slick surface that would lead to a lot of slipping and sliding and the outside two air tubes are slightly larger so you tend to stay in the middle. I know that a few minutes on the show room floor is not the definitive answer. The Air Core also came in well within my target price range at $59.

For those suggesting I look into hammocks I may do that some day but not now for a couple of reasons. One is that I have read mixed reviews on how comfortable they are for us side sleepers. Two is that I hike with my travelling companion, a Brittany, and need some floor space.

Good stuff Bill. It sounds like you found the pad for you! Like you said a few mins on the showroom floor doesn't quite give the whole picture, but it is a huge head start. Every pad I was able to try for a few minutes before buying I still own and use. I can't say the same for the ones bought sight unseen.

[fastfoxengineering]

Thanks for all of the opinions and advice. I went to REI yesterday afternoon and was able to try a bunch of different air mattresses. From a pure comfort perspective just laying there on the floor the one I liked the best was the Big Agnes Air Core. I am a side sleeper and this one kept my hips completely suspended with no floor contact because it is 3.25 inches thick when inflated. It also does not have a slick surface that would lead to a lot of slipping and sliding and the outside two air tubes are slightly larger so you tend to stay in the middle. I know that a few minutes on the show room floor is not the definitive answer. The Air Core also came in well within my target price range at $59.

For those suggesting I look into hammocks I may do that some day but not now for a couple of reasons. One is that I have read mixed reviews on how comfortable they are for us side sleepers. Two is that I hike with my travelling companion, a Brittany, and need some floor space.

I would recommend the insulated air core over the regular air core. The regular has an r value of like 1.2 or something. Very minimal, and even in the summer it may feel a little cold. I made the mistake of using one in the fall when the temps got down to the 50's at night. I was pretty cold on my backside. An older lady (78 to be exact) had the insulated air core and loved it. She said it was warm and comfy. The regular air core is really designed for hot summer nights.

[CarlZ993]

CarlZ
From Thermarest :
Unless your mattress is going completely flat, it is unlikely that you have a leak. What you are noticing is the natural effect of cooling. The air you are inflating your mattress with is at body-temperature and, like all air, it contracts when cooled. A few more breaths once the mattress has cooled to ambient temperatures should suffice.



Rats! Sounds like I stressed about nothing. It's strange that I haven't experienced the same phenomenon with my X-lite.

[brancher]

I'm at the same point..... after many attempts at patching minute leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite 3, I am finally giving up the ghost an dgonna buy another pad. I got this before the NeoAir was even available, and the one on REI clearance (the 66-in one) seems to be a pretty good deal. IN winter I always bring my trusty Target Blue ccf pad, 3/8", and it does me fine as an underlayment for my prolite. In really cold weather, I pull out the ole Ridgerest from teh early 90's (never had a leak in that one, folks....).

Anyway, my Prolite 3 never made me feel like I was lying on ground really, but I think the NeoAir may be the ticket this time.

p.s. I am also a hammocker - have camped with a DL hammock and tarp a good bit - in weather down to 19F - and they are comfortable, but they are NOT the 'bomb'. Nothing is. It's all about what you like at the time. This time, I think I may be a shelter rat or ground dweller. Just flippin' less hassle (and lighter).

[shelb]

I am not familiar with all the mattresses you mentioned.

However, together with the suggestions of the other posters, I recommend you watch the "sound factor." By this, I mean - how does it sound when you roll over? I purchased a really lite-weight mattress pad that had a horrible tendency to sound like potato chips whenever I moved. I actually had other people comment on it. - not to mention, I slept like sh!$ due to waking up everytime I rolled over!

[Bill_in_TR]

shelb,

I hear you. When I was testing mattresses out at REI there were a couple that made noise exactly like you described. They were among the lightest mattresses there but they were also way over my budget. And like you that noise would have driven me nuts.

[AndyJ_54]

Don't know the singlis model- guessing it's just a tougher pool toy for $30.
Unless you are talking high summer only- you're going to need some insulation in your pad. IIRC the air core is a very low R value pad also. You'd have to put a foam pad down first to insulate you from the ground around 50* or so to make them work. R1 won't get you far temp wise- but fine for summer.

The NeoAir is typically warm into three seasons, after that you need a winter pad.
REI has some pads similar (cheaper but heavier) also.

You may want to wait a bit too. http://www.seatosummit.com/mattresses/
Not out yet (I believe?), but some folks are excited about these.
Low R value for the weight IMO, but a bit better width and design than the neo-air series.

Those SeaToSummit pads look like there will be great...