View Full Version : Nervous Neoair User ...
I just got back from the first trip where I took my new Neoair xlite which replaces my Prolite. The good news is that I think that the slightly higher R Value made a difference for me. In mid-high teens with the Neoair and my Marmot Helium, I wasn't toasty warm but I was OK. In similar weather with my Prolite I was pretty cold. So that's good. On the negative side, I was totally paranoid about the Neoair the entire trip. Maybe it is just being new to the pad but it seems SO fragile. And the idea of popping it and not having any insulation with temps that low made me too nervous. So I'm thinking of taking a supplemental closed cell foam pad the next time I go out where temps are expected to be anywhere near freezing or below but, of course, that entirely eliminates the weight benefits of the neoair. Am I being irrationally nervous here or is taking a second CCF pad smart in winter conditions?
I love my Neoair. I always inflate it in the tent, so it can't come in contact with any branches or thorns. Carried my on AT thru hike and CT with no issues.
Just Bill
02-14-2015, 17:23
Neo-Air regular- probably needs a 1/4" CCF pad to fill it out anyway, unless your bag is really over temp it's about there at 30* or so. Add the pad and be good close to zero. Debate rages about under or over- I believe science favors under. Science is generally reliable.
Only concern I would have- the patch kit- as well as typical soapy water identification tricks- might be a bit tricky sub freezing.
That said- a few hundred nights later and no issues for me... I understand though as they are extra crinkly in the chilly weather!!
Like anything else- double the weight and go with a self inflating foam- or double your knowledge and learn how to build a debris bed or fire just in case.
daddytwosticks
02-14-2015, 17:25
I don't hike in really cold temps. I tried a Neoair xlite two years ago. Used it on several hikes. Although the pad was comfortable, I was a nervous wreck worrying when it was going to pop. I also didn't like having to inflate it every time...seems like it took a bunch of puffs to air it up. I went back to a Prolite pad. Not as comfortable but way more durable IMHO. Yes, I'm a weenie for going back to my Prolite, but I sleep more secure knowing the chances of it being punctures are way less than the Neoair. Hope you are able to make the Neoair work for you. :)
I did have the patch kit but I doubt my ability to diagnose and fix a leak.
I might experiment with various thickness of CCF. One thing about going with much additional thickness is that upping the pad thickness from 1 inch (prolite) to the neoair (3 inches?) is that I have much less room for error before hitting the walls of my shelter and getting condensation on my sleeping bag. Seems like a game of inches for me at 6'1" with a long sleeping bag inside my Hexamid Twin...
brancher
02-14-2015, 17:27
Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.
Thoughts from either of you?
Just Bill
02-14-2015, 17:29
With a Hexamid- you've clearly saved enough weight and bulk to carry a serta mattress. :)
I don't mess around much in winter personally- a Z-lite SOL/egg crate style pad won't pop and I can always shape the snow a bit if needed. Might even give you a bit more toe room :D
As fer blowing them up- I found going back to buttless Pall-Mall helped me, fer some reason the filters mess me up more.
Just Bill
02-14-2015, 17:33
Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.
Thoughts from either of you?
Valves go, but if you are having a tough time, sometimes the actual seam de-lams. A dunk in a tub will diagnose the leak. If you got random bubbles- likely a delam issue in several spots...T-rest may help you out on that...otherwise there is a homeless fella somewhere who'd like it.
I weigh between 190 and 210 depending on things...
and I sleep on the women's one.
The only reason I'd take a CCF pad would be the added insulation though that may be a good enough reason in cooler weather. I've not used my xlite a whole bunch but I'm reasonably careful about where I pitch my tent and there's a few layers of material between it and rough objects on the ground. I don't have any fears of it getting popped by what's on the ground. I'd be a whole lot more careful if I were pitching in a shelter but an inspection for pointing objects will likely sort that out. Also, no trampoline practice on it.
brancher
02-14-2015, 17:37
Neo-Air regular- probably needs a 1/4" CCF pad to fill it out anyway, unless your bag is really over temp it's about there at 30* or so. Add the pad and be good close to zero. Debate rages about under or over- I believe science favors under. Science is generally reliable.
Only concern I would have- the patch kit- as well as typical soapy water identification tricks- might be a bit tricky sub freezing.
That said- a few hundred nights later and no issues for me... I understand though as they are extra crinkly in the chilly weather!!
Like anything else- double the weight and go with a self inflating foam- or double your knowledge and learn how to build a debris bed or fire just in case.
Thanks, I noticed you're selling some wares as well - I may need to look at your NeoAir - what do you mean by 'typical mylar wear'?
I already have doubled my knowledge, now I just need to halve my laziness......
Turtle-2013
02-14-2015, 17:37
The voice of experience: Just carry a small roll of duct-tape ... if the hole is too small to to find, blow it up once during the night, otherwise stick the duct-tape on it until you get home. Do a GOOD patch at home, where it is warm, but the tape will seal it fine on the trail. However, the REAL reason to use the Duct tape is that you can also attach the soles back to your boots, field repair a tarp, tent or tent pole, and just about anything else with it. Like MacGyver, I'd never be caught without a roll. :D
Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.
Thoughts from either of you?
I weigh around 165 pounds and my Prolite has held up well. It is a little over 2 years old with probably 65+ nights of use. I actually was trying to sell it but will probably hold onto it now just in case.
brancher
02-14-2015, 17:41
Valves go, but if you are having a tough time, sometimes the actual seam de-lams. A dunk in a tub will diagnose the leak. If you got random bubbles- likely a delam issue in several spots...T-rest may help you out on that...otherwise there is a homeless fella somewhere who'd like it.
I weigh between 190 and 210 depending on things...
and I sleep on the women's one.
Yeah, they are pretty good - but 10 years and 600-800 miles later (not to mention bicycle or kayak trips), even I the quintessential tightwad, hesitate to ask T-Rest to spring for it....I do have my limits.
It's in the tub right now. I'm looking for leaks. plugged a couple not more litle bubbles, but I can hear stuff, you know? I mean, not like back in the 70's, but still....
Just Bill
02-14-2015, 17:46
Thanks, I noticed you're selling some wares as well - I may need to look at your NeoAir - what do you mean by 'typical mylar wear'?
I already have doubled my knowledge, now I just need to halve my laziness......
Answered you question in the other thread.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/109217-Gear-Bananananza-2-Sleeping-Gear
MuddyWaters
02-14-2015, 17:57
I have two xlites, with a lot of nights on them combined, with no problems.
I wouldnt give one to a 12 yr old to use however.
I always have stuff under mine. Maps, Raingear, ziplocks, etc. Whatever extra I have goes under it for additional protection. Also used with 1.0 cuben groundsheet, not polycro.
I have taken my 1/8" thinlight and used under it as well. Used that as groundpad to sit in cactus country, and spent an hour every evening picking needles carefully out of every inch of it before putting under my pad. Must have done a good job, no problems.
Slo-go'en
02-14-2015, 18:24
I've had a NEOAIR since '08 and it has a lot of miles on it now and yet to have an issue. Since mine is an original with no additional insulation, it is cold when the ground is cold.
colorado_rob
02-14-2015, 18:42
Even though in 6-7 years of heavy Neoair use I've never had a failure (I finally had a slow leak in a very old Neoair), I do always carry a 5 ounce 1/4" CCF pad in the winter both to add R value and to provide some insulation in case of a total pad failure. I lose the CCF in about April through October.
CarlZ993
02-14-2015, 19:00
I worry about my NeoAir Xlite. I've used it a lot. Used it exclusively on my 2013 thru-hike. Some hikes before & after. It hasn't sprung a leak yet. Been down to about 15 deg one night & wasn't cold on my back-side. I'm impressed with it. I'm sure to baby it (blow it up w/o any possibility of touching anything that could pop it; use a ground sheet in shelters, etc).
If it was a severe winter trip, I'd use the NeoAir All-Season w/ a close-cell foam pad.
Note: If you cowboy camp, make sure it doesn't blow away when you do a midnight pee run.
I did have the patch kit but I doubt my ability to diagnose and fix a leak.
I might experiment with various thickness of CCF. One thing about going with much additional thickness is that upping the pad thickness from 1 inch (prolite) to the neoair (3 inches?) is that I have much less room for error before hitting the walls of my shelter and getting condensation on my sleeping bag. Seems like a game of inches for me at 6'1" with a long sleeping bag inside my Hexamid Twin...
On my PCT thru I carried a piece of $£€£ air mat that had no fewer than a dozen leaks, most of them due to manufacturing defects in the heat seal areas. I got very good at finding those leaks. From Tahoe to Seiad Valley I carried a small bottle of kids bubbles. It did wonders in finding leaks. However in the end the mat was Swiss cheese and I learned to re inflate the mat while lying down.
upon my return I chunked that mat and bought an xlite and xtherm. I also was very cautious at first but they are tougher than they look. many of the elite hikers carry the xlite short. swami carried one on his 12 long hikes and he may have had two in the 14k miles. We fixed one that we found in my bath tub with a small dap of silicone which last at least the rest of the AT leg.
on the PCT I carried a thin CCF in SoCal to help protect the mat from sharpies. I slept in a bivy every night and by the time the hike was over I had a couple dozen very small pin holes in my bivy. Again a few daps of silicone cured those holes.
Bottom line, if I were heading out on the PCT I would carry my xlite unless I was starting early in which case I would take my xtherm thru Tahoe.
Very reassuring for my upcoming pct. Thanks.
johnnybgood
02-14-2015, 21:25
Having read some of the hyperbolic comments from users when it first came out it's a wonder how it ever survived it's early critics..
My guess is if you treat the neoair using common sense backpacking 101 then there is nothing to worry about. Besides if somehow a leak does occur you have a repair kit to patch it up tight. I have used mine maybe 4 times and always use a vapor barrier between it and the tent floor.
Always pack and unpack mine inside the confines of my tent.
I bought the womens NeoAirX-lite which has a higher R value (3.9) than the mens pad and also has a weight savings of a few oz. It should serve you well on your PCT hike.
Sarcasm the elf
02-14-2015, 23:30
I personally would never bring an inflatable pad on a winter trip without having a CCF pad as well. I have had an inflatable fail on me on three different occasions over the years, the worst one being on Mt. Madison in -15*f conditions...fortunately on that occasion I was sleeping on a zrest foam pad as well, having the foam pad changed the potentially dangerous situation into one that was merely slightly uncomfortable.
imscotty
02-15-2015, 00:22
I have two xkites, one has three patches on it, the other never gave me any problems. I am afraid that the one with the patches was due to my own careless treatment of it. I bring the patch kit with me and have patched in the field with good results.
Traveler
02-15-2015, 08:19
Speaking of weight, I can't seem to find what the maximum weight the NeoAir Xlite will support. I am in the market for one of these, but not sure if weight will be an issue, since I go about 230. Does anyone know if these will support weights over 180 or so?
handlebar
02-15-2015, 10:02
The Prolite can have leaks too. I got mine out to sit on while cooking an early dinner in the Sierra. While packing up I carelessly pulled a pine needle out of it without marking the spot. That was a slow leak requiring reinflation in the middle of the night. Try as I might I couldn't find the leak until I got to Mammoth where a motel bathtub disclosed a very small stream of bubbles. I now use the Neoair Xtherm (since I do backpack in winter). It was good on a shelter floor down to -12F. I used it with care on the AZT where there are many sharp things as well as on several other trails (about 2000 miles) without a problem.
I have the zPacks cuben ground sheet for the floor of my shelter and that ground sheet has yet to be punctured by anything so that does give me added confidence with the neoair. I think that I'm going to go with the neoair as I start the PCT but will keep my Prolite available to have sent out to me if necessary. I don't think that the low temps on the PCT will put me in true danger if the neoair fails. I might be uncomfortable but I can accept that I think... Thanks for the feedback.
The fear of total failure of an airmat is overstated. Short of catastrophic failure a pin hole means a couple reinflations at night, not freezing to death.
Alligator
02-15-2015, 11:44
Hoqw much do you weigh, OP? Reason I asked, I have srung a few mysterious leaks in my 10-yr-old Prolite, keep patching bue now the valve may be going south. So it may be time to go to Prolite heaven. I like the NeoAir Xlites, but I, too, wonder about it supporting my 180-lb carcass. Also, I am a tarp user at times (not sure which Ill take this time, maybe the tarp and maybe the Moment DW). do use a silnylon poncho for a groundcloth with the tarp, but still that is pretty thin.
Thoughts from either of you?This has been aroundcl my weight for a long while. I own both a Prolite and a regular Neoair and use them both wirwith my tarp extensively (or a floorless tepee tent). I use a tyvek groundcloth. Never a leak. I also use a T-rest chair with both. I am careful and do not put them right on the ground.
CarlZ993
02-15-2015, 14:08
Speaking of weight, I can't seem to find what the maximum weight the NeoAir Xlite will support. I am in the market for one of these, but not sure if weight will be an issue, since I go about 230. Does anyone know if these will support weights over 180 or so?
I have a buddy of mine that is well north of that weight. He has no problems w/ his Large NeoAir Xlite.
saltysack
02-15-2015, 14:33
I am 5'11" @ 215 lbs...had neoair xlite for several years....no issues and my dog sleeps next to it...in winter I also carry a zlite CCF as I get cold in the 15deg marmot helium w xlite around 25...I'm a cold sleeper
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
colorado_rob
02-15-2015, 14:37
A person's weight should not matter at all with air mattresses... consider 100 extra pounds as a fair extreme, for example. Spread this weight out over a few square feet, that's one quarter (0.25) of a PSI extra pressure in the mattress, trivial.
I've carried a NightLight pad from Gossamere Gear for quite a number of years now. It is the back support for my ULA packs, an all-important sitting pad for rocky or wet sitting comfort, leg/foot insulation when carrying a short primary pad, and insurance against no insulation when carrying an inflatable pad.
For several years, this was my primary pad for warm weather hiking, decided that I wanted more luxury as I got older. My original pad has a partial rip between sections, repaired many years ago with duct tape, still going strong today. Would allow a decent nights sleep if the NeoAir X-therm failed me (but it seems pretty tough and is gaining my confidence after 25+ nights along the JMT).
http://gossamergear.com/sleeping/nightlight-sleeping-pad-torso-length.html
Firefighter503
02-17-2015, 10:33
I've used a NeoAir for years and my weight fluctuates around 250 lbs. Never had a problem, never had a leak (knock on wood).
Nameless
02-27-2015, 02:01
I am amazed how much abuse an xlite will stand. I packraft with mine in the bottom of the boat (it fits an alpaca perfectly). I do long, hard days constantly in and out of my boat wearing sandy, silty, wet trail runners stepping on and jumping around on the pad. I don't baby my pad at all. It has held up perfectly. I also have used it down to 0ish and stayed warm (I sleep cold).
Studlintsean
02-27-2015, 08:28
I use the all season and have had a catastrophic failure once but it was due to kicking the knob in the morning by accident. There was no fixing it. It was certainly operator air but this shows it can happen and it did end my trip. 30086
I have spent a lot of nights on my neo with no issues and I love it. I have a piece of 3/16th foam with a mylar face that I fold up for a 3.5oz sit pad slipped in a nylon waterproof sleeve I made up, I can unfold and slip it under the pad when I feel I want or need the extra protection from the cold or for the pad. I go out at about 225 lbs, I shelter and tent and I love that little patch of heaven.
Tipi Walter
02-27-2015, 10:07
I personally would never bring an inflatable pad on a winter trip without having a CCF pad as well. I have had an inflatable fail on me on three different occasions over the years, the worst one being on Mt. Madison in -15*f conditions...fortunately on that occasion I was sleeping on a zrest foam pad as well, having the foam pad changed the potentially dangerous situation into one that was merely slightly uncomfortable.
Totally agree with this. I always bring a backup pad on every trip and esp every winter trip. You just can't afford to be without one when conditions go south at -10F.
I was totally paranoid about the Neoair the entire trip.
It's okay to be totally paranoid about your sleeping pad. Every trip I go on I'm completely paranoid about whatever pad I'm taking, whether it be a NeoAir All Season or a Thermarest Prolite Plus or 40th Anniversary or Exped downmat. You must be paranoid on a long trip because anything could happen and you can't bail out to return to your couch at home.
There are several solutions---
** Of course bring your Thermarest/Pad repair kit(s)---a no-brainer.
** Cache an emergency thermarest in the woods by the trailhead and circle back thru the wilderness to get it if you must (this doesn't work well on a linear hike like the AT).
** Keep an extra in your car trunk and circle back etc etc.
** Carry a spare with you the whole trip. Sometimes I bring a spare NeoAir rolled tight and kept permanently inside my pack. THEN if I have a blowout I don't need to hike 12 miles to a cache and have backup right with me.
** OR carry a decent ccf pad and use both the inflatable and the foam on cold winter nights. My fave is the Ridgerest Solar at 3.5R which can be doubled up in an emergency (folded in half) and offers 7R. Below is my Solar pad---useful for resting on the ground (never do this with an inflatable) and as a second pad at 0F and as an emergency backup etc.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/Halloween-Snowstorm/i-6WmDkNN/0/L/TRIP%20160%20401-L.jpg
I think your plan is good - bring a foam bad for backup.
I know opinions about Neoairs are all over the map but my opinion is that it's a matter of WHEN and not IF one gets a puncture. I have 2 in my gear closet right now that need to be patched.
And, if you do successfully patch one would you ever really trust it again?
Tipi Walter
02-27-2015, 10:41
I think your plan is good - bring a foam bad for backup.
I know opinions about Neoairs are all over the map but my opinion is that it's a matter of WHEN and not IF one gets a puncture. I have 2 in my gear closet right now that need to be patched.
And, if you do successfully patch one would you ever really trust it again?
All good points. Not IF but WHEN is exactly true. Having a pad fall outside my Circle of Trust is a depressing, sobering moment but I eventually get over it. And if I have a pad that leaks and is pinholed and fixed, well, I will use it at home in my backyard camps but won't take it out with me. It's time to get a new pad for my next trip.
Pad transport is the most important part of keeping an inflatable from leaking---wrap it in your ground cloth or keep it in a stout stuff sack or keep it inside your pack. NEVER strap it exposed on the outside of your pack (I see it all the time), NEVER throw it on the ground and sit on it, never use it for the cushion in a chair and never sit on it by the campfire.
Turk6177
02-28-2015, 12:56
My tent has a bathtub floor. I have used my neoair XL in shelters, and have camped on everything from pine needles to rock face. I have not had any problems yet. I agree with Just Bill: learn how to sleep warm without it in the event you do spring a leak. Unless you hike in extremely remote areas, chances are you are rarely more than 3 or 4 days from civilization.