Mt Madison (NH) Rescue

[peakbagger]

Local paper reported someone set off a PLB on Madison on Sunday evening. The winds currently are 120 MPH plus this morning and -17 degrees F at the summit of Washington and conditions were worse last night, Madison would have similar conditions. Hopefully the hiker dug down in snowbank as even rescue folks will have a tough time even getting up there. Its bright blue skys but looking at the summit cam, there it may be whiteout conditions above treeline due to blowing snow.

[Feral Bill]

Hopefully they're prepared to hunker down and the searchers stay safe. Very scary sounding.

[imscotty]

Those are frightening conditions. I wonder how close they are to the Madison Hut. If they survived the night perhaps they can make it there.

[Thinspace]

I just heard that on the local news. They are searching for a 32 year old woman but had to call off the search due to extreme conditions. Hopefully the story will have a miraculous ending.

[Feral Bill]

Those are frightening conditions. I wonder how close they are to the Madison Hut. If they survived the night perhaps they can make it there.
Come to think of it, I once spent a stormy night under the old Madison Hut. I doubt that's still possible. Hopefully they're burrowed into a snowbank, waiting for better weather.

[Slo-go'en]

I have a clear view of the summit of Madison from my front window and don't see any snow blowing up there at the moment, but there's a good breeze down here in the valley and that means it's howling up high.

Madison hut is locked up tight right now. At best you could use it as a wind break. I won't want to be up there right now but I bet the view is awesome. Yesterday was worse. As soon as she broke tree line she should have turned back. Visibility was probably about 2 feet and snow drifts insane.

[One Half]

latest update

http://www.wmur.com/news/rescuers-search-for-missing-hiker-near-mt-adams/31294362

Still looking

[Slo-go'en]

This just in, she was found dead. No other details yet as to exactly where she was found.

It also appears several were injured in an avalanche on Mt Washington. All this wind packed powder on top of the crusty ice we had earlier in the season makes for perfect conditions for that.

[Feral Bill]

Are the searchers all okay?

[peakbagger]

To close this out, the hiker was reported by WMUR to be found deceased.

Madison Hut was renovated a few years ago, prior to the renovation there was three sided step in the building wall on the lee side of the prevailing wind. It was quite effective at blocking a lot of the wind. The renovation filled in this spot and since then there is only one spot on the SE corner that is marginal at being a good spot to get out of the wind. All openings under the hut are covered over and locked tight with an underlying metal grate underneath.

[Slo-go'en]

Apparently she was climbing Mt Adams, but the prevailing winds tend to blow you towards Madison and when the wind is gale force, it's really hard to walk into it, especially when combined with blowing snow creating white out conditions. It's easy to end up where you don't want to be or not knowing where you are at all. You have to know that mountain really well under those conditions.

The AMC had a lot of trouble with people breaking into the huts so they make them pretty impregnable these days.

[fiddlehead]

The AMC had a lot of trouble with people breaking into the huts so they make them pretty impregnable these days.

I've got to wonder, whoever made that decision: I wonder how they will sleep tonight?

[Feral Bill]

I've got to wonder, whoever made that decision: I wonder how they will sleep tonight? I expect they will sleep just fine. They did not make the decision for her to be out there.

[Thinspace]

I expect they will sleep just fine. They did not make the decision for her to be out there.

I agree with Feral Bill, This was a tragedy that should not have happened. Decisions like that not only endanger the person making the decision but ultimately endanger the lives of the rescuerers as well.

[peakbagger]

They will sleep fine, the decision to lock up the huts and eliminate emergency shelters was a rational decision made years ago as the FS and other groups proved that folks were planning on using these emergency refuges as part of normal trips thus exposing more folks to potential danger. The shelter at Edmond Col was intentionally designed to be uncomfortable as possible and folks still were trying to use it.

There were additional details in the news, her husband dropped her off for her planned hike over Madison, Adams, Jefferson and Washington. Heading south from Madison the exposure only gets worse and the bail out options are far worse. Had she made it past Adams, the conditions would have gotten progressively worse.

[Slo-go'en]

There were additional details in the news, her husband dropped her off for her planned hike over Madison, Adams, Jefferson and Washington. Heading south from Madison the exposure only gets worse and the bail out options are far worse. Had she made it past Adams, the conditions would have gotten progressively worse.

In that case, she would have been going face first into the wind. Winds that were equal to those of hurricane Irene and with Mt Washington the second coldest place on Earth last night - without the wind chill. Not a good night to have been up there. Not a good day to try a traverse.

Impossible to second guess, but she should have headed straight back down once she saw the conditions above tree line. Or tried to make it to Gray Knob, which has a wood stove.

[rickb]

The TV report I saw said that her body was found near Star Lake.

[Del Q]

I really hate to pass judgment here but with the current weather patterns in the Northeast, she made a really dumb decision to go out there..............and if so, you should have some serious gear to deal with what might hit you.

Would bet money that her husband discussed her NOT going.

Really sad.

[DavidNH]

Hiking alone on the open ridges of the northern Presidentials in the conditions we are experiencing now .. this is stupid beyond words. I don't care what she had for gear. The truly sad part is her husband actually let her do this, dropped her off! Will the flat landers ever learn??

[imscotty]

Clearly a bad decision, those conditions were horrific. This must have been so difficult for her rescuers in every way. Sounds like they have all returned safely.

Sounds like she was close to the hut, not that it would have helped her much. Perhaps she already had turned around and was trying to make it back to the Valley Way. The news report said her husband dropped her off at 5 AM and the beacon was activated at 3:30 PM. She had already been out there some time before calling for help.

Sad story.

[Second Hand]

I get chills just reading this thread. I've canceled two hikes in the Northern Presidentials this winter and I actually canceled one along the Franconia Ridge line today because of the extreme cold and wind we are experiencing.
I was kicking myself all day thinking I should have gone. It's such a hassle to organize gear, get partners together and get up there, you hate to have to shut it down. This a chilling reminder that you can never be too careful in those Mountains this time of year.

My thoughts are with her and her family. I can relate to what pushed her up the Mountain, I just wish she made a better choice... I can't imagine breaking tree line in those conditions and pushing forward.

[MuddyWaters]

Very sad.
However, a fool could see current weather coming.
I have little doubt the fact she had a " PLB " weighed into her decision to go. I say this because it is a trend today.

I dont know what kind of "PLB" she had, but real PLBs have homing beacon. Possible that SAR has no means to take advantage of that though.

[Feral Bill]

Not to defend her decision, but all of us make serious, often potentially fatal mistakes. It can be in the mountains, on the water, or crossing the street. Let's learn from this incident while being respectful.

[Slo-go'en]

The news report said her husband dropped her off at 5 AM and the beacon was activated at 3:30 PM. She had already been out there some time before calling for help. Sad story.

That info puts a different slant on the situation. The valley way is pretty packed down but with the recent snow, wind and the time she left, she was probably breaking trail the whole way up and it probably got real deep around tree line. That's a LOT of work. I bet she didn't get to the hunt until noon or later. It's likely at that point she made a fatal error and decided to summit Madison.

I can't imagine she'd try to do the traverse in those conditions but thought, "Hey, I'm already up here, I might as well do one summit". Then on the way down, tired and fighting an intense head wind, she went off course too far to the east and ended up around Star Lake. In those white out conditions you follow the path of least resistance and that is usually the wrong way. There are a number of trails which Cris-cross the col and Star Lake would be a little protected from the wind, so that could be why she ended up there.

[Second Hand]

I agree with Federal Bill.
I've made dozens of poor decisions that in retrospect I would take back. The risk is part of what is so intriguing about climbing.

This is an unfortunate incident and something we should all take heed of.

[Slo-go'en]

Very sad.
I dont know what kind of "PLB" she had, but real PLBs have homing beacon. Possible that SAR has no means to take advantage of that though.

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

[lkmi]

Not sure anyone posted a link to a story. here's an AP story: http://www.sunherald.com/2015/02/16/6074442/new-hampshire-mountain-hiker-who.html

[MuddyWaters]

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

A real plb has 121 mhz homing beacon, it doesnt rely only on transmitted coordinates, which can be affected by terrain. This is why im interested if the press used the term "plb" loosely, as if interchangeable with spot, inreach, etc. Which it isnt.

There are gps engines, and then there are better gps engines as well. Some wont hold a fix under tree cover, etc, some will.

[Slo-go'en]

A real plb has 121 mhz homing beacon, it doesnt rely only on transmitted coordinates, which can be affected by terrain. This is why im interested if the press used the term "plb" loosely, as if interchangeable with spot, inreach, etc. Which it isnt.

It was likely a SPOT device. The 121 MHz PLB would have a limited range and I believe used primarily to locate avalanche victims.

[BradMT]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

[squeezebox]

Sorry this happened, I wonder if she was carrying any -60* gear, or 0* or -20* stuff instead, and hoping for the best instead of prepping for the worst.
Remember the same thjing could happen to us with 40* gear in 20













































































Sorry to hear this happened. I wonder what kind of gear she had. 0* or -20* gear in -40 just isn't enough. And why did her husband not refuse. It obviously takes some time to learn winter hiking. Solo winter hiking in deep winter sounds crazy, sorry Tipi . Just remember the same thing could happen to you with 40* gear in 20 or teen temps. Cold weather is not for UL
Again know your limits!!!

[Driver8]

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

The SAR source said on TV that the PLB signal was moving around within a one-mile radius during at least some of the time frame. That could be because the hiker was moving, trying to get to safety. I'm sure when Androscoggin Valley SAR does a full incident report a lot more information will become available. Such a sad story.

[MuddyWaters]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

Hypothermia has a reputation for adversely affecting sound decision making ability.

[ny breakfast]

I've pushed my limits, I've backed out to hike another day witch is very hard to do at times, we all make are own judgments, the weather in the northeast is like no other, the weather reports have been changing by the hour recently, hiking new England states is easy as long as the weather is easy. hiking new England is the hardest hiking you will ever experience as long as you end up in the worst weather ever. the weather just changes that fast. my thoughts go out to the family..... please be respectful

[peakbagger]

Assuming she went up Valley Way solo, It could have reasonably taken 6 hours to break trail to Madison Hut. Even if there was broken trail, the winds would have drifted in the trail especially the last 3/4 of a mile to the hut. From there its pretty well sheltered from the wind. At Madison hut there is some shelter from the wind as it is in a depressed bowl. From there the hike up Madison starts to get wind exposure rapidly until the trail breaks the ridge line where its full exposure along south side of the ridgeline until finally jumping up to the ridgeline to the summit. At that point the wind would have been on her back. Then hiking back to the col she would have been full face into the wind. From Madison Col, the choice is Gulfside Trail which get full wind exposure of Star Lake Trail. Star Lake trail is sheltered from the wind but is steep and difficult to follow especially as by noon on Sunday the winds were cranking up and the lee side of the ridge would have had near white out conditions. The Star Lake trail skirts several steep cliffs that would require technical equipment and with recent snow I expect there would be deep snow and slabbing making uphill progress difficult if not impossible. The problem with Star Lake trail is that it slabs the headwall to Madison Gulf, If a hiker doesn't follow the trail and slab up, they get sucked down into Madison Gulf. I expect that even someone in peak condition could easily be exhausted. That exhaustion can rapidly switch to hypothermia and from then on, thinking isn't clear.

A contributing issue was that Sunday morning was cold but fairly pleasant down low, the north country missed the bulk of the snow from the coastal storm. The forecasts were quite insistent that there would be high winds but I expect the conditions at the base led to a decision to give it a try.

By the way, I expect this upcoming weekend, there will be 20 or 30 groups of hikers heading up the same way. If the conditions are less severe its a great hike and quite popular. It all comes down to looking at the forecast and knowing your limitations.

[Another Kevin]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

The yelllow signs will be buried by now. A buddy of mine took this picture on Eisenhower about a month ago before the first big Northeaster hit. There have been a few feet more snow since then. I think the yellow 'alpine region' warning sign is lower down on that same post.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QVeLhtaI5gA/VNQyH1vU4CI/AAAAAAAAm68/a_tj2qDXWcQ/s640/DSC_4514.JPG

Yes, going up there was still a monumentally bad decision. But I've made a few (survivable) monumentally bad decisions in my time. If one of my mistakes catches up with me, I'm sure that there will be a chorus of people saying how stupid I was. After all, I have climbed Northeast 4000-footers in winter, slept rough in subzero temps, hiked solo in the central Adirondacks, and sane people do none of these things.

I'm not about to set about castigating her for her bad decision, particularly since few of us have anything to learn from it. Perhaps when more details come out, we'll have more to learn about escaping UNFORECAST bad conditions, but I don't think that this tragedy yet has much value as a cautionary tale.

Oh, by the way, a 'real' PLB has multiple signaling technologies. It sends a 406 MHz data packet through the weather satellites, announcing its activation and giving a GPS position. In the event that GPS is wonky, the 406 MHz ping can also be located by Doppler triangulation on board the low-orbit weather satellites, although that technique can take several hours for a good fix. Finally, it sends a warble (or 'PLB' in Morse code, depending on the generation of the unit) on the 121.5 MHz aeronautical distress channel, so it can be heard by a passing aircraft (and CAP has the gear to locate it precisely). It can be triangulated using a handheld receiver with a directional antenna. And it has a strobe light on board. The transmitters are much more powerful than, say, a SPOT.

I've participated in 'fox hunting' exercises for training in finding a radio beacon. (Using 146.565 MHz, not 121.500 - we weren't lighting up the SAR network!) And I carry a 'real' 406/121.5 MHz PLB whenever I'm out in deep winter, or planning to go off trail, or solo.

[BradMT]

I've been up the Presidential s (Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Washington) many times on winter climbs in sub zero temps. Yellow signs have always been visible on every route I've taken. If the wind is 100 mph when you hit treeline and you don't turn back you're completely without the skills to have been there in the first place, yellow signs or not.

I'm at a loss as to the thinking that went into this... hypothermia? It should have been obvious well in advance of hitting treeline the conditions required her to turn around and head down the mountain. No, I don't buy the hypothermia line of thinking.

The Presidential's are too accessible to too large a population of people, hence the death rate on them.

Sad... so sad.

[colorado_rob]

Yes, going up there was still a monumentally bad decision. But I've made a few (survivable) monumentally bad decisions in my time. If one of my mistakes catches up with me, I'm sure that there will be a chorus of people saying how stupid I was. After all, I have climbed Northeast 4000-footers in winter, slept rough in subzero temps, hiked solo in the central Adirondacks, and sane people do none of these things.True that, and at times, I'm just as insane.

Not sure if you all read her brief bio info in the other thread's link (she was born in Siberia, after all), but she was apparently a real adventurer and hung it out there. who knows, maybe she was training for a very high peak somewhere. We actively seek out very harsh conditions on a regular basis for our Big mountain training climbs, and just last weekend climbed a CO 14er in extreme conditions ourselves. This one, sadly, just got away from her.

My son is just about her age and has infinite, unbounded self confidence. Didn't we all at that age?

Give her a break, and morn for her family's loss and quit calling her a fool. We all do foolish things now and then, do we not?

[peakbagger]

There is a visible yellow USFS warning sign about 100 yards in the woods from the Appalachia trailhead, it was not covered by snow, there is a second yellow sign up near Madison Hut.

[SteelCut]

Give her a break, and morn for her family's loss and quit calling her a fool. We all do foolish things now and then, do we not?

You make a great point; however, the counter to this is that her actions endanger the life of the rescuer's went out to rescue her (and others like her). It's happened before in the Whites where a rescuer was killed on a winter rescue. Enough said.

I do pass along my condolences to her husband, family, and friends.

[colorado_rob]

You make a great point; however, the counter to this is that her actions endanger the life of the rescuer's went out to rescue her (and others like her). It's happened before in the Whites where a rescuer was killed on a winter rescue. Enough said.Always a good point, that happens all over certainly, not just the Whites in NH, however, that is what they (the SAR) have signed up to do, bless their hero-hearts.

[Driver8]

I'm not about to set about castigating her for her bad decision, particularly since few of us have anything to learn from it. Perhaps when more details come out, we'll have more to learn about escaping UNFORECAST bad conditions, but I don't think that this tragedy yet has much value as a cautionary tale.

Oh, by the way, a 'real' PLB has multiple signaling technologies. It sends a 406 MHz data packet through the weather satellites, announcing its activation and giving a GPS position. In the event that GPS is wonky, the 406 MHz ping can also be located by Doppler triangulation on board the low-orbit weather satellites, although that technique can take several hours for a good fix. Finally, it sends a warble (or 'PLB' in Morse code, depending on the generation of the unit) on the 121.5 MHz aeronautical distress channel, so it can be heard by a passing aircraft (and CAP has the gear to locate it precisely). It can be triangulated using a handheld receiver with a directional antenna. And it has a strobe light on board. The transmitters are much more powerful than, say, a SPOT.

I've participated in 'fox hunting' exercises for training in finding a radio beacon. (Using 146.565 MHz, not 121.500 - we weren't lighting up the SAR network!) And I carry a 'real' 406/121.5 MHz PLB whenever I'm out in deep winter, or planning to go off trail, or solo.

It was this person's first Presidential Range hike, according to NH Game and Fish's Lt. Wayne Saunders, quoted in the Concord Monitor. He said she had "sufficient [gear] for a day hike in decent weather." I gather from White Mountain hiker pages in Facebook that she had planned to traverse from Appalachia over Madison through Washington and her husband, who dropped her at 5 AM, was to pick her up on the far side of Washington. Search and Rescue teams tend to do after action reports on such missions, so more detail about the track history in her PLB will probably be forthcoming. It reportedly was signaling them from a one-mile circumference, at least for a time.

From what I can discern from photos of the SAR mission posted by a team member, her body was recovered near the drainage of Star Lake just above the Madison Gulf headwall, which indicates she was attempting to shield herself from the north wind behind the bulk of Mt. Adams. If she had had tent and sleeping bag, she might've made it. The SAR guy reports that she had fallen, but he gave no detail beyond that. SAR team video footage of the mission, near the recovery site, show two of them, in midday sun Sunday, being blown off their feet by gusts. The winds then were much less fierce that what she'd've endured the day and night before, per MW Obs reports.

[Jake2c]

This is a tragedy. Hopefully when the full story is out I can learn something from it, even if to pound the point that you need to make decisions early when things are going wrong. I am learning as much as I can about the woods as it is a short step from ok to eternity and this is not my natural element (I grew up on a barrier island and have spent my life on the water). My experience in the military, diving and sailing, all of which can end badly, is that "A" type personalities in general are positive. There is a way out just around the next bend or over the next wave, or around the corner in a wrecked vessel 100' down. Giving up their plan is hard to do. Getting yourself into a fight for survival is nothing to be proud of but over coming the odds is a great story and it attracts adventurers like a moth to a flame. It sounds like she was experienced and in good shape. With her knowledge base I would guess she knew she was on the edge and she probably also knew she was activating her beacon late and that the conditions were going to make timely rescue a low probability bet. She made her choices. I hope her family finds peace soon.

[imscotty]

Lots of pictures in this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956538/PICTURED-32-year-old-banker-wife-JP-Morgan-Vice-President-dead-24-hours-activated-emergency-beacon-climbing-New-Hampshire-treacherous-conditions-100mph-winds.html

Rest in peace.

[Praha4]

from the article, it looks like she was an experienced hiker. But new to the White Mtns. I suspect she was a Siberian-Russian "Alpha-female", who had a lot of experience in cold weather hiking, but underestimated how bad things can get in the Whites in that kind of weather. Really amazing that she went alone with the weather forecast as it was. But it's not a first time we've seen things like this happen.

[Frye]

Her husband was the VP of JP Morgan?

I guess money couldn't buy her the most important piece of equipment we must have when venturing out in such extremes.

I'm just not a very sympathetic person so I think I'm going to shutup.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Her husband was the VP of JP Morgan?

I guess money couldn't buy her the most important piece of equipment we must have when venturing out in such extremes.

I'm just not a very sympathetic person so I think I'm going to shutup.

VP is a common middle management title in institutional banking. Bank VP's are not executives and not rich, closer to upper middle class.

[Tipi Walter]

Sorry to hear this happened. I wonder what kind of gear she had. 0* or -20* gear in -40 just isn't enough. And why did her husband not refuse. It obviously takes some time to learn winter hiking. Solo winter hiking in deep winter sounds crazy, sorry Tipi . Just remember the same thing could happen to you with 40* gear in 20 or teen temps. Cold weather is not for UL
Again know your limits!!!

I've sat in a lot of cold tents over the years but generally never had to face -30F in 100mph winds except once (January 1985 with -30F ambients) but the winds were more like 60mph. I do all my backpacking in the Southeast mountains of VA, TN, NC, and Georgia---a totally different beast than the Whites and Presidentials. The guys up there are your real Winter Backpackers.

But the magic pertinent phrase is "sat in a lot of cold tents"---I don't believe Kate Matrosova carried a tent or a bag or a sleeping pad to hunker in off the ridge for a night and live to see another day. She apparently was on a Dayhiking trip and dayhikers seem to always get hit worse than backpackers because they just don't carry the gear needed. When push comes to shove you've got to hunker in and set up camp and "make your stand" until better conditions prevail.

Thirty below in a hundred mile an hour wind? Bail straight off the ridge and out of the wind and find a hunker spot, preferably with full clothing, geese, a shelter, bivy bag, pad and sleeping bag. It becomes a hell fight with Denali winds and 3 days in a snow cave. Read "Minus 148 Degrees" book by Art Davidson. They had the same exact conditions and hunkered in with minimal gear.

And survived but lost a few digits.

[hikernutcasey]

VP is a common middle management title in banking. They are not executives and not rich, closer to upper middle class.They were doing fairly well for themselves as one article said they lived in a million dollar Manhattan apartment.

It does seem that she had quite a bit of experience in the outdoors but made a really bad decision to go up there without a tent and sleeping bag. Condolences to her family.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Not Without Peril . . .
Sad. Given her experience, she must have known the dangers and the necessity to respect the mountains and weather. Even with a tent and sleeping bag, proceeding above timberline would still have been a bad decision.

[Tipi Walter]

Not Without Peril . . .
Even with a tent and sleeping bag, proceeding above timberline would still have been a bad decision.

Not Without Peril is a great book and one I took out several years ago on a long winter trip and read wholeheartedly because whatever crap I was facing was nothing like other people have faced and are facing today.

But I believe with a tent and bag she would've fared much better---in fact mountaineers face these conditions on a daily basis on high alpine climbs and all they have are tents and bags---and the willingness to hunker in and sit thru a 3 day storm, or worse. Dayhikers generally do not have the hunker in mentality because they don't have the gear, one. And two, it's a get-out-at-all-costs mindset.

Which reminds me---On a long January trip I took out a rescue report about a guy named Steve Frazier who started a backpacking trip into Yosemite and got hit with a 2 foot snow pinning him at his campsite. He couldn't move.

So, he stayed put for 12 DAYS and made two days worth of food last for 12.

There's a poor link of his adventure here---

http://www.friendsofyosar.org/rescues/2008/2010


(http://www.friendsofyosar.org/rescues/2008/2010)

[4eyedbuzzard]

^
Agree she MAY have fared better, although not guaranteed, and it may have given her a better chance. But unlike most mountaineers who travel at minimum in pairs on alpine climbs, she was alone, above timberline, in -30 temps and 100+mph wind. Hiking/climbing alone under those conditions is inherently pretty dangerous. And it sounds as if she may have fallen as well. Maybe she could have crawled into a bag and bivy and survived. Who knows. Pitching a tent would be really difficult for one person in those winds. Not impossible maybe, but even with lots of experience, really tough. It's hard to keep your footing in 60 - 70 mph winds up there, 100 mph is more than double that force. The rescuers said they were actually being blown off their feet. I'm sure there will be more info about her itinerary, gear, experience, etc., as they piece together the story. Another tragic lesson.

[Havana]

I'm trying not to judge, but I just don't understand how someone thought they could bag those peaks as a day hike in that weather. On a calm, July day, it would be a solid day of hiking over rough terrain at altitude. It's not clear where she started, but if you're following the AT from Pinkham it's roughly 13 miles to Mt Washington summit (+4000 ft) and then you have to get back down. Even with some of the more direct trails it is still probably eight miles or so one way. In those severe winter conditions it just seems folly.

EDIT: Just saw a trail sign on one of the news sites that showed Appalachia on Route 2. That's about an eight mile hike one way if that's where she started.

[Connie]

Maybe she knew nothing about The Whites?

So, why go solo?

Maybe she had been in higher mountains, and, underestimated The Whites.

I have been "okay" in -34 F which was the warmest day of that four days. I was out of the wind. That helped.

But I missed it: why no sleeping bag and no tent?

[Havana]

Apparently because it was a day hike so no apparent need for shelter.

[Connie]

In those white out conditions you follow the path of least resistance and that is usually the wrong way. There are a number of trails which Cris-cross the col and Star Lake would be a little protected from the wind, so that could be why she ended up there.

"white out" zero visability.

If you can't see the terrain, you don't hike, you "hunker down".

I did that on a 10-er. I made an authentic snow cave, with a sleeping shelf higher than the access "tunnel". It had a smoothed rounded domed "roof" and a little trench around the sleeping shelf for melting during the time I was in there. I had "breathing holes" punched thru the snow higher up slope than the tunnel "door" I and others checked during the time I was inside. It was dug into a slope.

The sleeping bag and CCF pad were more than adequate.

I was quite comfortable.

By morning, the "white out" cleared.

[Another Kevin]

But I believe with a tent and bag she would've fared much better---in fact mountaineers face these conditions on a daily basis on high alpine climbs and all they have are tents and bags---and the willingness to hunker in and sit thru a 3 day storm, or worse. Dayhikers generally do not have the hunker in mentality because they don't have the gear, one. And two, it's a get-out-at-all-costs mindset.

Uhm. Right. But some day-trippers are better prepared than others. I've never gone above timberline between mid-October and mid-May without bringing a tent, a sleeping bag, a pad, and at least some extra high-calorie food. That's for a day trip. Fortunately, the one time that I can remember that I hit unforecast blizzard conditions, I needed to dig in only for a few hours, the storm blew over and I was able to posthole back down the mountain. Had no snowshoes with me - it was early June and there was no snow on the way up.

Here's a buddy of mine and I starting out on a winter peakbag. You can see what our packs look like. This is for a day trip. Winter is serious business.Oh, by the way, on my pack (the blue one) you can see ice axe, shovel and crampon bag. Didn't need the shovel, but when you need one, you really need one.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HJFI6BJUV5E/VJilZzLNdTI/AAAAAAAAlkY/z29Wz-zaWxE/s640/DSC_3802.JPG

[Connie]

Apparently because it was a day hike so no apparent need for shelter.

!!!! All the more reason to have what you need for an "unplanned" overnight, or, unplanned one or two days to get the rescue if you cannot rescue yourself.

My website is all about that.

It is why I have a website: the "fog" rolls in, etc.

[Slo-go'en]

The lesson here is that before attempting a winter presidential traverse, first do it in the summer, then do shorter winter trips to Adams, Madison and Jefferson using the RMC Gray Knob cabin as a base camp to gain experience in winter White Mountain conditions which are often brutal. The saying " The worst weather in the world" is not a joke. Way too many people ignore the "turn back now or you will die" signs at tree line.

I've was once lifted off my feet and blown over the top of Mt Adams, thankfully I landed in snow bank :) Getting back down facing into that wind was not easy. One of those "man I'm glad I made it back alive" moments.

29998

[peakbagger]

A counterpoint is that prior to February snow conditions were great and weekend weather was reasonable (for winter) . Many folks were out every weekend and lot of folks were finishing off their "grid" (every 4000 footer in NH every month of the year" . Full presidential traverses and half traverses in a day are not that unusual. I gave a shuttle to a solo day hiker a few years ago in late February that hiked the entire presidential ridge (presidential traverse) in 10 hours, that is faster than many do it in the summer. It all comes down to picking the day and planning on changes in weather. That frequently means changing plans the night before or early in the morning. Where folks get in trouble is planning a major trip, driving up here from a long distance away and deciding, "it cant be that bad" or the "forecast is wrong" and decide to go anyhow. For the planned trip, sometimes it may go weeks before good weather lines up with a weekend. Sometimes there are zero days in a 4 week period in winter where a half a traverse would be advisable. On the other hand the first time I summited Adams in the winter I had a poly pro base layer with nylon pants and short sleeve poly tee and got pretty good sunburn. I had been turned back due cold temps and heavy winds twice that same winter.

[One Half]

I have hiked the Whites. Never in the winter. Even on day hikes I go prepared for overnights as the weather can turn in minutes and strand you.

[Gray Bear]

SAR team members think she may have been injured in a fall trying to get below treeline. They also said shew had decent gear. I can't say for sure what that consisted of. Its possible she had the gear required for this trip but was injured and unable to use it for any number of reasons.

Its real easy to sit in front of your keyboard and tell the world what she did wrong but the truth is you don't have all the facts.

Some video from the SAR team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4u6VyrgCk

[August W.]

She was out on the mountain where she wanted to be and was doing something she wanted to do. She died in a beautiful place doing something she loved. Most people aren't that fortunate In death.

[egilbe]

Maybe she can be a lesson to others who try to hike alone, in the Winter, without (possibly) being prepared to spend the night. Lots of poor decisions which led to her death. She may have died doing what she wanted to do, but I'm sure she would rather live and do other things she hasn't done, yet.

[Migrating Bird]

How does anyone on this forum know she was not prepared? Mentally? Physically? or What equipment she carried? Just because she had planned on a day hike, does not mean she was not prepared! Just because she lived in NYC, what difference does it make where she lived or what her income level was or her husbands occupation. The sad thing is she pushed herself too close to the edge and was unable to sustain her well being. From the limited reliable information available so far, I have the utmost respect for her attempt. Thoughts and prayers go out to her family and friends who are surely devastated by the loss of a loved one.

[colorado_rob]

How does anyone on this forum know she was not prepared? Mentally? Physically? or What equipment she carried? Just because she had planned on a day hike, does not mean she was not prepared! Just because she lived in NYC, what difference does it make where she lived or what her income level was or her husbands occupation. The sad thing is she pushed herself too close to the edge and was unable to sustain her well being. From the limited reliable information available so far, I have the utmost respect for her attempt. Thoughts and prayers go out to her family and friends who are surely devastated by the loss of a loved one.Well said. Who knows if she had bivy gear or not... sounds like she was injured.

An people keep talking about how she should have had a TENT. A TENT is not the way to go on such treks, a Bivy sack is the piece of gear that might save your butt. No way generally to pitch a tent in emergency conditions like she had.

In any case, whether she was prepared or not, a discussion of always being prepared, however self-righteous some of these post are, is valuable.

[Coffee]

Her husband was the VP of JP Morgan?
.

The random guy sitting behind the manager's desk at your local bank branch is probably a "VP". In financial services, this is a very common and usually a meaningless title. In any case, I don't see what her husband's occupation or income level has to do with this tragedy.

[Gray Bear]

Well said. Who knows if she had bivy gear or not... sounds like she was injured.

An people keep talking about how she should have had a TENT. A TENT is not the way to go on such treks, a Bivy sack is the piece of gear that might save your butt. No way generally to pitch a tent in emergency conditions like she had.

In any case, whether she was prepared or not, a discussion of always being prepared, however self-righteous some of these post are, is valuable.

I don't think there's a tent made (that can be carried) that wouldn't be shredded in 100 MPH wind.

The wind direction also changed 180 deg in 24 hrs before her departure. Things change fast!

[Frye]

She was out on the mountain where she wanted to be and was doing something she wanted to do. She died in a beautiful place doing something she loved. Most people aren't that fortunate In death.

I wonder if she felt that way as she froze to death? She wasn't a Spartan, it was not a beautiful death...

She shouldn't have been there. At least not alone. I really don't care what the arguments are in her defense, with how this winter has been, she should had at the very least gone with a partner. Even in a normal winter this range has some of the worst weather in the continental US.

[Havana]

When there's a hurricane forecast, only idiotic weathermen purposefully go out in it.

She intentionally went out into a winter hurricane on a mountain range known for the foulest of weather. This whole notion of "we don't know if she was prepared/experienced/equipped" is just BS. She either made a major error in planning (not checking the weather) or a major error in ego (hubris). Either way it was an error.

There's no "Oh she forgot to pack an extra layer of underwear" or "if she just didn't wander off that cliff" rationalization. It was idiotic to be on a mountain in that weather given the fact that it was readily knowable that the conditions were life threatening. Heck, even rescue professionals, people who are specifically trained, equipped, etc, turned back.

It was foolish. It is a cautionary tale. That mountain can and does regularly kill the foolhardy.

[Lone Wolf]

I wonder if she felt that way as she froze to death? She wasn't a Spartan, it was not a beautiful death...

She shouldn't have been there. At least not alone. I really don't care what the arguments are in her defense, with how this winter has been, she should had at the very least gone with a partner. Even in a normal winter this range has some of the worst weather in the continental US.


When there's a hurricane forecast, only idiotic weathermen purposefully go out in it.

She intentionally went out into a winter hurricane on a mountain range known for the foulest of weather. This whole notion of "we don't know if she was prepared/experienced/equipped" is just BS. She either made a major error in planning (not checking the weather) or a major error in ego (hubris). Either way it was an error.

There's no "Oh she forgot to pack an extra layer of underwear" or "if she just didn't wander off that cliff" rationalization. It was idiotic to be on a mountain in that weather given the fact that it was readily knowable that the conditions were life threatening. Heck, even rescue professionals, people who are specifically trained, equipped, etc, turned back.

It was foolish. It is a cautionary tale. That mountain can and does regularly kill the foolhardy.

yup.........

[Slo-go'en]

She was out on the mountain where she wanted to be and was doing something she wanted to do. She died in a beautiful place doing something she loved. Most people aren't that fortunate In death.

The only problem with this is that it puts other peoples lives in danger. She pushed the "rescue" button on the PBL. Putting your own life in danger is one thing, then asking others to risk their lives to rescue you is another.

[Havana]

The only problem with this is that it puts other peoples lives in danger. She pushed the "rescue" button on the PBL. Putting your own life in danger is one thing, then asking others to risk their lives to rescue you is another.

Amen.........

[Offshore]

They were doing fairly well for themselves as one article said they lived in a million dollar Manhattan apartment.

The median apartment price in Manhattan is $1.31 million, while the average price is $3.76 million. So while they were probably comfortable, by no means would they be considered rich in NYC based solely on the value of their home. I'm not sure why economic status keeps popping up in the media reports as this has nothing to do with planning, prep or judgement, but I just wanted to offer some local perspective.

[colorado_rob]

The only problem with this is that it puts other peoples lives in danger. She pushed the "rescue" button on the PBL. Putting your own life in danger is one thing, then asking others to risk their lives to rescue you is another.Tired, tired "argument". Those blessed SAR folks sign up for just such activities, they do it happily, and as much as possible, avoid putting themselves at undue risk. They have the gear, the training, the communications, the teamwork, everything possible to avoid risk.

These "arguments" basically tell us that no one should participate in dangerous activities, because if an accident happens, we will only put our potential rescuers at risk. Is that what you folks want?????? No challenging mountaineering or climbing?

[Lone Wolf]

The only problem with this is that it puts other peoples lives in danger. She pushed the "rescue" button on the PBL. Putting your own life in danger is one thing, then asking others to risk their lives to rescue you is another.

SAR lives for that. firemen go in burning buildings on purpose. rescuers rescue

[Havana]

I disagree Rob. It's not that you shouldn't engage in dangerous activities, it's that you shouldn't engage in foolhardy activities.

If you're on a hike and you get caught in an unexpected storm, break your arm in a bad fall, have a heart attack, a rope breaks while you're climbing leaving you hanging on an exposed wall, all these are the sorts of things that SAR folks are invaluable for.

But if you go swimming during a hurricane I don't know of any lifeguard who signed up for rescuing that brand of idiot. But they do it anyway.

I remember when I was on a SAR team thirty years ago. A bunch of guys went tubing in a river after a hurricane. One of them was missing (we all presumed he was dead, stuck in some sweeper). Everyone on the team thought those guys were idiots. Did we go out and do our job, you bet, but would we have rather those morons stayed at home? Yes.

There were plenty of rescues that were true emergencies. Manufactured emergencies (such as the one we've been discussing) didn't get us excited.

[O-H-10 Lil Ohio]

I have to agree with lone wolf, this unfortunate death was preventable , most people of reason would have thought to have a partner with them in these conditions. Some people don't do the critical thinking necessary when they hike in extreme weather conditions .They don't think of the team of rescue personnel that will be involved in a rescue in extreme weather conditions, and there is no defense for that kind of thinking . It may be possible when this thread is completed to gather enough information on this hiker skill level and remember this outcome as a lesson learned I have been hiking the AT since 1968 and been off and on the trail for 46 years.,I have seen alot of things go wrong for hikers to include the stupid things that I have done. Whether I agree with her decision to go on that hike I do appreciate her spirit the spirit of being in the mountains challenging yourself understanding what you're capable of doing is the reason we all hike, unfortunately an error in judgement sometimes clouds the adventurer . To her husband and her family we feel your loss and from the hikers, our prayers and thoughts are with you Tic-Toc

[Frye]

Tired, tired "argument". Those blessed SAR folks sign up for just such activities, they do it happily, and as much as possible, avoid putting themselves at undue risk. They have the gear, the training, the communications, the teamwork, everything possible to avoid risk.

These "arguments" basically tell us that no one should participate in dangerous activities, because if an accident happens, we will only put our potential rescuers at risk. Is that what you folks want?????? No challenging mountaineering or climbing?

How is it a tired argument? It's our job to mitigate risk as best possible, she didn't. A well planned out trip going wrong is one thing, but a poorly planned one into an extreme environment is a different story. It has nothing to do with someone else being willing to risk their life to help you, it's about doing your best so they won't have to. Being stupid is just another form of selfishness in this regard.



The median apartment price in Manhattan is $1.31 million, while the average price is $3.76 million. So while they were probably comfortable, by no means would they be considered rich in NYC based solely on the value of their home. I'm not sure why economic status keeps popping up in the media reports as this has nothing to do with planning, prep or judgement, but I just wanted to offer some local perspective.

I think I was the one who originally commented on their wealth. It doesn't matter. The statement had to do with a lack of knowledge. My reference to their wealth was inconsequential to the point I was trying to make.

Btw, their economical status keeps popping up because people keep discussing it. *nudge nudge* =D

[rickb]

Perhaps some of those participating in this thread who have put themselves in life threatening situation in the Presidentials could share first hand accounts of how they found themselves there.

I only climbed Mt. Washington in the winter once, and it did not go well. Not exactly life threatening because we turned around at the Alpine Garden trail (I think) when we couldn't see the next cairn -- but the ice kept balling up under my crampons despite my efforts to knock it loose, and I did go into a slide that required self arrest. I was just too tired and it would have been easy to get hurt.

One thing I learned from that was the notion that it is easy to "just turn around and go back" if the conditions deteriorate does not always apply, and that help is long way off even in relatively mild conditions.

[colorado_rob]

How is it a tired argument? It's our job to mitigate risk as best possible, she didn't. A well planned out trip going wrong is one thing, but a poorly planned one into an extreme environment is a different story. It has nothing to do with someone else being willing to risk their life to help you, it's about doing your best so they won't have to. Being stupid is just another form of selfishness in this regard. How on EARTH do you or anyone on here know she had a "poorly planned" climb? Am I missing a point here? Perhaps there is more information buried on this thread I just haven't seen. Lots of assumptions and Monday-morning quarterbacking, but the facts??????

Yes, still a tired argument. Easy to make for cyber-adventurers.

[Another Kevin]

The only problem with this is that it puts other peoples lives in danger. She pushed the "rescue" button on the PBL. Putting your own life in danger is one thing, then asking others to risk their lives to rescue you is another.

I see it in an entirely different light. Not lighting the PLB would compounding the irresponsibility.

If I don't come back from a trip, they're coming after me. I don't get to make that decision. We go looking for our lost people, because it's what humans do. As soon as I'm in serious trouble, the damage is done. All I can do at that point is try to make their job cheaper and less risky.

The search is much, much more dangerous than the rescue, and many times more costly.

I do carry a PLB when solo, or in deep winter, or on a bushwhack. If I light it, I'm not really saying, 'come help me.' When I don't get back, I know that they'll be coming looking for me whether I want it or not. Instead,, I'm saying 'here I am.' They can then focus on the rescue (or the recovery, if it comes to that) and not on the search. If I'm going to buy the farm on a trip, I'd rather have one SAR party be able to come in and do the recovery than have hundreds of people searching for months, the way they did with Geraldine Largay (or my step-grandfather (http://dftscript.blogspot.com/2014/11/2014-11-02-north-dome-pilgrimage-or.html)).

[Tom Murphy]

How on EARTH do you or anyone on here know she had a "poorly planned" climb? Am I missing a point here? Perhaps there is more information buried on this thread I just haven't seen. Lots of assumptions and Monday-morning quarterbacking, but the facts??????
.

She was not prepared for an immobilizing injury in that location and in those conditions. If she had properly planned for that possibility, she would not have died.

[Frye]

How on EARTH do you or anyone on here know she had a "poorly planned" climb? Am I missing a point here? Perhaps there is more information buried on this thread I just haven't seen. Lots of assumptions and Monday-morning quarterbacking, but the facts??????

Yes, still a tired argument. Easy to make for cyber-adventurers.

I'll going to quote myself here.


She shouldn't have been there. At least not alone. I really don't care what the arguments are in her defense, with how this winter has been, she should had at the very least gone with a partner. Even in a normal winter this range has some of the worst weather in the continental US.

I don't care what other info pops up, she was alone in a notoriously hostile environment made even worse by the exceptionally bad winter they've been having up there.

I guess you are missing the point...

Ugh, I really want to respond to the insults but don't feel like being reprimanded by the mods.

Have a good day pal,
Frye

[Tom Murphy]

Perhaps some of those participating in this thread who have put themselves in life threatening situation in the Presidentials could share first hand accounts of how they found themselves there.

This is how I avoided a life threatening situation in the Presidentials.

http://forum.hike-nh.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4636

[O-H-10 Lil Ohio]

TM, Look at the outcome!! I would think that's a poorly planned or executed trip . that's the point !! Look at the outcome it certainly wasn't a successful trip. It's a tragedy that could have been planned better ,that's all I'm saying.

[Another Kevin]

Perhaps some of those participating in this thread who have put themselves in life threatening situation in the Presidentials could share first hand accounts of how they found themselves there.

Not the Presidentials, but Moosilauke. June 1976. Party of four, all fairly experienced hikers, college-aged. We climbed up Gorge Brook, on what was forecast to be a bluebird-perfect day. Dark clouds started to blow in while we were having lunch at the summit. We said, 'uh oh', and started south back to the trail junction, We were in whiteout before we got there. Couldn't see the trail worth a damn. Even stringing out so that each of us could just see the hiker ahead and behind, it was hard to find the next cairn.

We wound up getting into sleeping bags wearing every stitch of clothing we brought, and huddling under a tarp (not properly pitched, just kind of tied around us to try to break the wind and keep the snow off) at the base of a cairn on the lee side. We spent a very uncomfortable few hours, with the occasional ribald remark about the way we were huddling together. During that time, over a foot of snow fell.

Once we could see again, we packed up and managed to posthole down, without showshoes, crampons, or any means of self-arrest. We discovered that we'd gone past the Gorge Brook turnoff when we came to the treeline, and decided just to take the carriage road down to the Snapper trail. There was less chance of a fall on that route, anyway. Gorge Brook is scrambly where it makes the switchback up the headwall. By the time we were on the ski trail, we were hiking by flashlight (nobody had headlamps in those days). We were pretty wet, tired and miserable by the time we were back at Ravine Lodge. There was a dusting of snow down at that level, and none at all in Warren or Glencliff. The next day dawned warm and clear again, and all the snow that had fallen the day before melted, closing the Ravine Lodge road to add insult to injury.

If we hadn't brought sleeping bags and the materials for an improvised shelter - on a summer day trip - we'd have definitely been in a life threatening situation.

No lesson really learnt. We already knew that above-treeline weather can do anything, at any time of year. We had trouble, and we got ourselves out of it. No real way to avoid it, short of "don't hike the Whites."

[Another Kevin]

This is how I avoided a life threatening situation in the Presidentials.

http://forum.hike-nh.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4636

One time that I was on a backpack with my daughter, she decided to abort the trip because she was feeling ill (apparently she wasn't entirely over a bout of Coxsackie virus that she'd had a few days before). She kept apologizing for "being such a coward about it." I told her that she seemed more afraid of messing up my trip or turning back without scoring the summit than she was of getting in trouble. I went on to tell her that facing THAT fear was a much braver decision than simply soldiering on and getting into trouble.

The real mark of a mountaineer is the summits he's prudently turned back from, not the ones he's gained. You're a real mountaineer.

[Havana]

Some more information about the conditions and the plan.

Of particular note:
Hiking alone and in winter can be safe, White said, but there are times when it should be a “no go,” like on Sunday when the winds and cold should have made Matrosova reconsider.

A persistent wind will rob hikers of sense and strength and higher gusts, those above 80 mph, will stop their forward progress entirely, said White. Hikers need to do some mental math, he said, and despite having the best polar gear available, “you are not going to be able to function, you will not survive out in that kind of weather,”

Rick Wilcox, who is the president of Mountain Rescue Services and is White’s business partner, said Matrosova’s idea of a Presidential Range traverse was “an OK plan,” but “she just picked a really, really bad day.”

“Hiking alone in winter is fine,” said Wilcox, adding that “even though the general public perception is it’s suicidal, it’s not at all. On a nice day, under good conditions, we could have brought her down safely.” But on Sunday, he said, “even our best climbers could not get above tree line.”
- See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20150218/NEWS07/150219179#sthash.MftyQ4dq.dpuf


I think most people on this thread who are critical of her decision make the assumption that given the forecast for high winds and cold temperatures and the readily available data about the dangers of the mountain that her "plan" to even be on the mountain, much less try an eighteen mile traverse, was a poor one. The correct plan, the only viable plan, would have been to chose another day.

[peakbagger]

3 days later, its bright blue skies 0 degrees with 20 MPH gusts on Washington. I would (and have) gone solo up Madison and Adams in conditions like today. Folks in better condition than I would easily be able to do the intended route over to Washington. It all comes down to picking the day which don't necessarily line up with a long weekend.

[Tipi Walter]

As I always say, Cold Hurts, Wind Kills.

For me, to really understand Kate Matrosova's plight, the Art Davidson winter expedition to Denali in 1967 needs to be studied and duplicated in harsh conditions. Denali is not called the Coldest Mountain without reason.

Art Davidson and two other guys spent 6 days in a tiny snow cave at 18,200 feet with 100mph winds. Six days. With wind chill at -148F.

https://books.google.com/books?id=g8qfM3A7g6AC&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=art+davidson+snowcave&source=bl&ots=e4N2ZNXUIV&sig=QjVoMtjVGFr0TkaIyxFaybWl4b4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ttbkVOiGJcqqgwTBloKAAw&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=art%20davidson%20snowcave&f=false

Was Kate prepared for the same? Could she find a leeward side of the ridge and dig in? Could she sit put out of the wind for 4 days? Would Art Davidson have done the same thing in the Whites that he did on Denali? Did Kate have a bag and a tarp?

http://www.adventure-journal.com/2013/11/climber-art-davidson-on-the-1st-winter-ascent-of-denali-adventure-and-surviving-minus-148-degrees/

http://articles.ktuu.com/2011-01-07/art-davidson_27017036

[Coffee]

It is very possible that she was experienced enough to fully understand that her PLB was going to be used for body recovery, not rescue. Someone with that level of experience probably is under no illusions that a helicopter would suddenly appear under those conditions and take her to safety. She might have felt that it would be more kind to loved ones to trigger the PLB so that closure could be brought to the situation more quickly.

Rescue crews are made up of heroes but I don't think anyone expects them to be suicidal. The assumption has to be that they will not put themselves in imminent peril foolishly. Otherwise, no one could ever use a PLB with a good conscience.

Sympathies to the family of the young woman.

[Wülfgang]

I'm always amazed and disgusted at the amount of armchair-quarterbacking seen after a tragic wilderness accident. Maybe it's just the nature of a forum that brings out people's opinions, but have some respect for the victims.

It's criminally easy to sit back in our comfy chairs and dissect the scenario from every possible angle, smugly asserting what we would or wouldn't have done, what she/he did wrong, and oh yes, it's oh-so-sad.

Mistakes usually ARE apparent retrospectively, and it's good to learn from them, but dont be so arrogant to think you could never find yourself in a similar dire situation because you are so experienced/smart/equipped/wise, etc. It's backpacking hubris and frankly tempting fate. No one is above a bad judgment call, faulty gear, inclement weather, a physiologic event, or a misstep. Risks can be mitigated but never completely eliminated.

Tragic story. The margin of error in winter moutaineering is so small.

[Wülfgang]

^Not speaking to anyone in particular here, just general thoughts.

[Slo-go'en]

The problem is people plan these hikes based on the date (when can they go) and not based on the weather. You have to be able to wait for the proper weather window to make a winter traverse possible.

When I was Gray Knob winter caretaker, I was forever talking people out of going above tree line in bad conditions. I had one of the coldest, snowiest and busiest winters in memory and didn't loose a single person under my watch, so I guess I did a good job. But back then, pretty much everyone would come up to the Knob first and then do the traverse or bag peaks from there, which allowed me to screen people.

On Presidents weekend (GW birthday back then) I saw two guys with cotton sweatshirts, blue jeans and leather boots come by the cabin. I asked where they thought they were going. They said Mt Washington. I said, you know it's -20 out here and 100 MPH winds up there? Oh, but we have to go, our car is at Pinkham. I said no your not, your going down to route 2 and hitch around as there is no way I'm letting you up there. Finally a group who were dressed in the latest high tech mountaineering gear came by and said they didn't get more then 100 yards above tree line before having to turn around. This finally convinced the poorly equipped guys to listen to reason and head back down to the road.

[Tipi Walter]

I'm always amazed and disgusted at the amount of armchair-quarterbacking seen after a tragic wilderness accident. Maybe it's just the nature of a forum that brings out people's opinions, but have some respect for the victims.

It's criminally easy to sit back in our comfy chairs and dissect the scenario from every possible angle, smugly asserting what we would or wouldn't have done, what she/he did wrong, and oh yes, it's oh-so-sad.

Mistakes usually ARE apparent retrospectively, and it's good to learn from them, but dont be so arrogant to think you could never find yourself in a similar dire situation because you are so experienced/smart/equipped/wise, etc. It's backpacking hubris and frankly tempting fate. No one is above a bad judgment call, faulty gear, inclement weather, a physiologic event, or a misstep. Risks can be mitigated but never completely eliminated.

Tragic story. The margin of error in winter moutaineering is so small.

The reason rescue reports are published are to discuss what went wrong and how to prevent them in the future. Many mountaineering societies publish mishaps for this very reason. NOT WITHOUT PERIL is a whole book devoted to the deaths on Mt Washington.

Outdoorsmen and women discuss these scenarios (see the David Decareaux tragedy in the Ozarks) because they have found themselves in similar situations and lived to talk about it. They can relate. And no one I know who backpacks in the winter thinks they are too experienced or too smart or too equipped or too wise. In fact, Laurence Gonzales in his book Deep Survival declares Humility to be one of the best survival tools---staying humble.

To say "it's criminally easy to sit back" and judge is way out of line. The damage has already been done and it hasn't been done by us but by the mountain, the wind, the cold and by a couple personal choices of an individual on foot. Every winter backpacker and hiker needs to talk about this stuff.

[Wülfgang]

I had a winter trip in 2013 I should have aborted. Came as close to dying as I've ever been. Not physiologically, but circumstantially. Negative temps, wind, altitude...I was in way over my head and pretty damn scared. No shame in ever aborting a trip for safety concerns.

[Wülfgang]

The reason rescue reports are published are to discuss what went wrong and how to prevent them in the future. Many mountaineering societies publish mishaps for this very reason. NOT WITHOUT PERIL is a whole book devoted to the deaths on Mt Washington.

Outdoorsmen and women discuss these scenarios (see the David Decareaux tragedy in the Ozarks) because they have found themselves in similar situations and lived to talk about it. They can relate. And no one I know who backpacks in the winter thinks they are too experienced or too smart or too equipped or too wise. In fact, Laurence Gonzales in his book Deep Survival declares Humility to be one of the best survival tools---staying humble.

To say "it's criminally easy to sit back" and judge is way out of line. The damage has already been done and it hasn't been done by us but by the mountain, the wind, the cold and by a couple personal choices of an individual on foot. Every winter backpacker and hiker needs to talk about this stuff.

You're right, fatal events do need to be discussed. Once the mistakes are elucidated though, let that dog lie. It seems like people will just rehash it over and over and over all the while playing that deceptive game of mental comfort that it couldn't happen to me because ______.

[Driver8]

How on EARTH do you or anyone on here know she had a "poorly planned" climb? Am I missing a point here? Perhaps there is more information buried on this thread I just haven't seen. Lots of assumptions and Monday-morning quarterbacking, but the facts??????

Yes, still a tired argument. Easy to make for cyber-adventurers.

If you read the New Hampshire news media reports, which include interviews with rescue officials, and check in on the FB White Mountain hiker pages, where an S&R responder has shared some info and others have posted pics and video, it's become pretty clear she had a poorly planned hike and was insufficiently equipped for a good weather winter hike from Appalachia trailhead over the northern Presi's and past Washington:

* No snowshoes
* No sleeping bag
* No bivy sac or tent

She barebooted it up the Valley Way in sub-zero, very windy, increasingly windy conditions. Had to have been whiteout by the time she got to treeline.

All very unfortunate, especially in the worst conditions up there in many a winter.

[futureatwalker]

Tragic story. The margin of error in winter moutaineering is so small.

My condolences to this woman's husband and family.

I think part of the issue is the margin of error. For the sake of argument, let's say you are young, incredibly fit, and reasonably well-equipped. Under good conditions, the risk is probably not that great.

But under bad conditions, the risk increases dramatically. Worse, if you are on your own, you are probably truly on your own on the top of the mountains, as no one else will be there. Then, a simple difficulty, for example turning an ankle, becomes a life-or-death situation.

[Tipi Walter]

It seems backpackers in Scotland get their butts handed to them on a consistent basis too so maybe the Whites and Scotland share some similarities?? This is to Paul from Scotland . . .

[rocketsocks]

It seems backpackers in Scotland get their butts handed to them on a consistent basis too so maybe the Whites and Scotland share some similarities?? This is to Paul from Scotland . . .Geologically they are very much the same.

[futureatwalker]

Sadly, very similar:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/feb/03/extremesportsholidays.travel


It seems backpackers in Scotland get their butts handed to them on a consistent basis too so maybe the Whites and Scotland share some similarities??

The same culprit too - high winds on exposed mountain tops and cold temperatures.

[yerbyray]

She was out on the mountain where she wanted to be and was doing something she wanted to do. She died in a beautiful place doing something she loved. Most people aren't that fortunate In death.

While she was enjoying her demise in the tranquil world you suggest.....dozens of people risked their lives in a less than ideal beautiful setting because of negligence. Folks less than 40 and older than 10 need to think of others more.

[Tipi Walter]

While she was enjoying her demise in the tranquil world you suggest.....dozens of people risked their lives in a less than ideal beautiful setting because of negligence. Folks less than 40 and older than 10 need to think of others more.

Although Tristan (Brad Pitt) "had a good death" at the end of Legends of the Fall, most of us who are outdoors do not want to expire and check out, if only because of the loved ones we leave behind. Why else would a guy cut off his arm in a slot canyon if not to live?

Then again, I always consider winter and hypothermia to be Miss Nature's natural hospice for humans at the end of their rope. But like Djimon Hounsou at the end of "Gladiator", when the chance comes to go to the elysium fields we'll most likely say "Not Yet. Not yet."

[peakbagger]

Unfortunately folks forget about Guy Waterman who committed suicide on Mt Lafayette on a cold windy day in February 2000. Prior to leaving on his trip he sent letters to his friends telling them where they would find his body and asking them to retrieve it. He then hiked up the mountain to a favorite location and didn't get up again. At least one of the folks on this recent rescue on Madison was one of the "pallbearers" of his remains down the mountain. Incidentally Guy was the caretaker at Gray Knob one winter on Adams near the site of the most recent tragedy.. There was at least one article in a major magazine about him http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/A-Natural-Death.html and his widow wrote a book which included the events that led up to his decision. http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Garden-The-Story-Marriage/dp/1593760485.

I am not supporting and haven't seen any support for the contention that this latest incident was suicide but rather it seems overwhelming that it was was a set of poor decisions that lead to unfortunate demise.

[egilbe]

It seems backpackers in Scotland get their butts handed to them on a consistent basis too so maybe the Whites and Scotland share some similarities?? This is to Paul from Scotland . . .

Same mountains, just separated by an Ocean. At one time they were the same mountain range.

[egilbe]

If you read the New Hampshire news media reports, which include interviews with rescue officials, and check in on the FB White Mountain hiker pages, where an S&R responder has shared some info and others have posted pics and video, it's become pretty clear she had a poorly planned hike and was insufficiently equipped for a good weather winter hike from Appalachia trailhead over the northern Presi's and past Washington:

* No snowshoes
* No sleeping bag
* No bivy sac or tent

She barebooted it up the Valley Way in sub-zero, very windy, increasingly windy conditions. Had to have been whiteout by the time she got to treeline.

All very unfortunate, especially in the worst conditions up there in many a winter.

No snowshoes when there is 10+ feet of snow up there now? That is seriously a ***? decision. I go hiking anywhere in NE this time of year and snowshoes are on my feet or strapped to my pack.

[Feral Bill]

She was out on the mountain where she wanted to be and was doing something she wanted to do. She died in a beautiful place doing something she loved. Most people aren't that fortunate In death.
Really? She was 32 years old, certainly cold, and most likely terrified. That's not fortunate in my book.

[Slo-go'en]

No snowshoes when there is 10+ feet of snow up there now? That is seriously a ***? decision. I go hiking anywhere in NE this time of year and snowshoes are on my feet or strapped to my pack.

Snowshoes really aren't that helpful above tree line as the snow is hard packed from the wind, not too deep and there can still be a lot of exposed rock. Crampons are more effective. That said, there are still areas where having snowshoes makes things much easier, especially if the trail hasn't been broken out yet or freshly filled in with blowing snow, which would have been the case this weekend.

So yea, not having snowshoes was mistake #1. Not having emergency shelter was mistake #2. It's also possible she was of the "travel light and fast" school which lead to mistake #1 and #2.

[August W.]

Really? She was 32 years old, certainly cold, and most likely terrified. That's not fortunate in my book.

Please note that I said "fortunate in death" not fortunate to die or to be cold or terrified. Far more people die screaming in automobiles and if I could choose I would prefer to die exactly the way she did as opposed to being in an auto crash or doped up on life support in a concrete building.

[Tipi Walter]

Please note that I said "fortunate in death" not fortunate to die or to be cold or terrified. Far more people die screaming in automobiles and if I could choose I would prefer to die exactly the way she did as opposed to being in an auto crash or doped up on life support in a concrete building.

Guy Waterman surely comes to mind when I made the winter "hospice" comment but I was influenced further back by North American Indian elders who played out their days in the mortal coil and decided to sit put and expire. Let the tribe move on without you. What better time than in the winter?

And it's SO EASY to be exhausted at 0F after postholing all day in a terrible wind that there's a natural tendency to dump the pack and to curl up by a tree and go to sleep. It's an experience we don't want but it's inevitable if we go out in the winter.

And then there's the old Hindu tradition of fasting to death in old age while doing meditation, prayers etc.

[Jake2c]

This thread has taken a different direction. She was young, healthy, and experienced. It appears that experience failed her and she made some errors in her decision process. We don't know how she felt when she sat down but for me, while I am healthy, I'm not peacefully giving up. May seem more majestic or romantic to do that, but I'm scratching and fighting to stay alive any way I can.

[MuddyWaters]

Any experienced hiker knows they have to keep moving to survive in conditions that will lead to hypothermia. Stopping is as good as giving up.

The one exception , might be stopping to build a snow shelter and hunker in. Above treeline without shovel, tree boughs, pretty slim.

The gut wrenching part, is it was self inflicted error in judgement, and at some point she had to realize it.

Ive long suspected the availability of devices like Spot encourage people to take risks that they shouldnt. I cant help but believe that probably played a part. The act of carrying one, is an admission that it makes you feel safer.

[squeezebox]

Respect how fierce nature can be. Respect your limits. I'm not willing to hike in the Ozarks in 10* weather solo. I don't have the experience or the gear. What I hear from the experienced winter hikers is, even planning a day hike bring enough gear and food for a week. The person that posted 3 days later it was 0* and 20 MPH winds. Time windows can kill. " I have to go out today," She should have waited for better weather, and gear to hunker down.
Any hiker death is sad, we all morn her death.

[Praha4]

From the evidence shown, she made serious errors in judgement that cost her life. Like I said before, from what I've seen, she was a Russian "alpha-female" adrenaline junkie who figured she was in good enough shape to do that hike in a day. Tragic and very sad waste of a life with such potential and promise. But I suspect that while all of us have experienced the early stage symptoms of hypothermia, with uncontrolled shivering, late stage hypothermia is much different.... nobody should question how tough she was or to assume that she sat down and "gave up". I try to imagine the panic and fear she must have felt as she began to realize how hopeless he situation was. Her body slid downhill through every stage of hypothermia, and her brain function was impaired as her body's core temperature dropped. The hypothermia alone renders a person unable to walk, now imagine the hypothermia effects combined with snow and 100 mph winds.

From "Wilderness Utah":

In cases of moderate hypothermia, the situation worsens rapidly. The victim is sliding down a slippery slope, and the situation is already a serious emergency. Confusion and disorientation progressively worsen; the victim's speech may become slow and slurred. The victim may have difficulty walking straight and staying balanced, a condition known as ataxia. These signs and symptoms occur as the blood vessels constrict and circulation slows. Heart rate and breathing become depressed; the victim may complain of feeling drowsy. He may even insist on being left alone or allowed to sleep. In late stages of hypothermia, brain function deteriorates even further, predisposing the victim to poor decisions. An individual with hypothermia may inexplicably begin stripping off layers of clothing, increasing their risk and exposure. A person suffering from hypothermia may become irritable and combative as well, making them difficult to deal with. Once severe hypothermia sets in the victim may appear profoundly drunk or lose consciousness. All coordination is gone, resulting in an inability to walk or move. Breathing becomes so shallow that it may be difficult to detect. The body may become rigid, and the eyes dilated. The skin will feel cold to the touch and appear cyanotic, having a bluish tint. -

See more at: http://www.wildernessutah.com/learn/hypothermia.html#sthash.WyWhEz71.dpuf

[Feral Bill]

I've made, and turned back from, several winter trips in the Presidential Range. It can be fantastically beautiful up there, and hellish the next day or sooner. There is nothing up there worth dying for. To recap lessons from this tragedy.
1. Always be prepared to stay out overnight. There are no day trips. (Yes, I know some disagree)
2. Don't let the "push on" demon on one shoulder out talk the "turn back" angel on the other.
3. Travel with a group and watch each other for signs of fatigue and hypothermia.
4. Don't be too ambitious. The mountains will be there for another trip some time, will you?
5. Remember that you are not a bad-ass up there, you're a speck of dust.
6. Don't depend on outside rescue, no one owes it to you, and it may not come.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news/119239-wilcox-says-woman-s-climbing-death-monday-offers-lessons

[Lone Wolf]

she wasn't prepared

[Traveler]

Its another cautionary tale that adds to the most dangerous small mountains in the hemisphere (if not the world), even if it were a planned death due to a terminal illness of some sort.

[Meriadoc]

http://nealpinestart.com/2015/02/18/a-young-climber-perishes-on-mt-adams/

A respectful, well thought out and well written analysis by a guide who works in these mountains. He also is a member of the SAR team involved, although he wasn't on this specific call.

[Tipi Walter]

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news/119239-wilcox-says-woman-s-climbing-death-monday-offers-lessons


http://nealpinestart.com/2015/02/18/a-young-climber-perishes-on-mt-adams/

A respectful, well thought out and well written analysis by a guide who works in these mountains. He also is a member of the SAR team involved, although he wasn't on this specific call.

Good links, boys. I copied each one and will take them out to read on my next March backpacking trip. The travails and hellslogs of others always makes my puny winter trips seem so much easier.

[Nooga]

Ive long suspected the availability of devices like Spot encourage people to take risks that they shouldnt. I cant help but believe that probably played a part. The act of carrying one, is an admission that it makes you feel safer.

I think that many carry Spot devices to satisfy loved ones, not to make themselves safer.

[Tipi Walter]

I think that many carry Spot devices to satisfy loved ones, not to make themselves safer.

Plus, once a backpacker really knows an area he can find the sweet spots to get cell phone reception---and possibly head to those spots when things get dicey. Or not.

[Coffee]

I think that many carry Spot devices to satisfy loved ones, not to make themselves safer.
Exactly. I have serious doubts regarding whether triggering the SPOT would be good for more than body recovery when traveling solo in winter on lightly used remote trails.

[Shutterbug]

I think that many carry Spot devices to satisfy loved ones, not to make themselves safer.

I am sure that each person has his or her own motivation. When I hike alone, which I often do, I carry a Delorme InReach and set it to "tracking." I do it out of consideration for those who will look for me if I don't return.

[bamboo bob]

I would still like to know how she was equipt. I did not see any mention of a bivy and sleeping bag. She may have been totally prepared but too injured to use her gear. I very sad story.

[peakbagger]

Her equipment is a point of possible contention. A state F&G official stated she had the right gear for the hike and just hit bad weather while a later article in local paper by a local mountaineer stated that she was going fast and light and did not have snowshoes a tent or a sleeping bag.

[Traveler]

Exactly. I have serious doubts regarding whether triggering the SPOT would be good for more than body recovery when traveling solo in winter on lightly used remote trails.

Given the alternative, a SPOT device could make the difference and be a welcome last option.

[yerbyray]

This thread has taken a different direction. She was young, healthy, and experienced. It appears that experience failed her and she made some errors in her decision process. We don't know how she felt when she sat down but for me, while I am healthy, I'm not peacefully giving up. May seem more majestic or romantic to do that, but I'm scratching and fighting to stay alive any way I can.

What actually defines "experience?" Having experienced something doesn't make one an expert Would you want someone who had a hernia do your hernia surgery? Being "experienced" to me is someone who day in, day out does the task at hand.
Too many folks are getting to be "experts" on their craft by online means and limited time in the saddle.

I once followed someone on a three hour walk around the Grayson Highlands because she had been there once and "knew" the place. I finally showed her the map and compass and headed us in the right direction.

I don't know the lady who died. I don't know her experience level. I just know that you do not go to a dangerous place unready to face danger.

[O-H-10 Lil Ohio]

If you have the Weather Channel app I would recommend you go to the NEWS TAB and look at the caption about the solo hiker found dead on the Appalachian Trail.. I would say from the picture of her it looks like she had very good gear and she looks like she's in very good health. As more information comes in about this terrible tragedy we will all be able to draw our own assumptions and conclusions. I have witnessed many tragedies my lifetime and I believe experience is the best teacher. I'm not here to judge , hopefully I'm here to learn .

[peakbagger]

Please be aware that the photos being spread around of the hiker were from a facebook posts from past trips. I am not aware if there are any taken of what gear she elected to take on this particular trip. There is one article by a locally respected mountaineer that Lone Wolf had posted http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/...offers-lessons that states that she was going fast and light and did not have snowshoes, tent or a sleeping bag. Many folks make that decision in winter but they take weather into account and postpone the trip if the predicted weather conditions degrade. I usually make it up to the summit at least once every winter since I live nearby and I rarely if ever carry a sleeping bag or tent ( I do carry a single use bivy that is basically foil laminated to plastic sheet sealed into three side pocket) . If the weather is bad I don't go.

[Slo-go'en]

She was experienced, but not with White Mountain weather and conditions. There are only a handful of days in the winter which a traverse is even possible and those who do it by-pass the summits. Trying to also hit the summits adds a whole lot more work and time to the trip.

Her biggest mistake was not having snowshoes. While not real useful above tree line, their needed to get to tree line and in places where the snow drifts in real deep. They can also double as a shovel to burrow into a snow drift if you need shelter.

But the bottom line is no matter how good your gear is, in the conditions she encountered up there turning back before you get into trouble is the only sane option.

[Tom Murphy]

the linked opinion is a good rebuttal to the "she was doing what she loved" comments

http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287713&postcount=65

[hikernutcasey]

the linked opinion is a good rebuttal to the "she was doing what she loved" comments

http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287713&postcount=65I agree with this 1000%. It was well written and well said. Sometimes the truth hurts but it's still the truth.

[Traveler]

the linked opinion is a good rebuttal to the "she was doing what she loved" comments

http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287713&postcount=65

This was a good "tell it like it is" type of analysis, stark words for a stark situation. Since there are conflicting reports about the gear she had or didn't have, we really cannot assess her level of gear. Its difficult to fathom how badly the winds in that area will physically maul you, even in summer, they can blow you well off your route line, in winter they will blow you down and slide or roll you. I have to agree there is little to romanticize about this.

The only thing we really can take away from this is the cautionary tale of ignoring weather, trail head signage, and overestimation of one's experience and physical endurance in the wild. It makes me a bit more cautious myself. That was her legacy, simple as it is.

[FlyPaper]

This was a good "tell it like it is" type of analysis, stark words for a stark situation. Since there are conflicting reports about the gear she had or didn't have, we really cannot assess her level of gear. Its difficult to fathom how badly the winds in that area will physically maul you, even in summer, they can blow you well off your route line, in winter they will blow you down and slide or roll you. I have to agree there is little to romanticize about this.

The only thing we really can take away from this is the cautionary tale of ignoring weather, trail head signage, and overestimation of one's experience and physical endurance in the wild. It makes me a bit more cautious myself. That was her legacy, simple as it is.

Her legacy might save someone such as myself. Having hiked most of the AT in the south, I could easily be overconfident facing the Presidentials, especially in the summer. But stories such as these, and their getting circulated will make a big difference in how I approach the NorthEast (if I ever get there).

[egilbe]

A friend of my GF's is attending school at Plymouth State University. Her Master's thesis is on why the weather in the White Mountains is so horrible and unpredictable. She says its truly unique in the world, the weather patterns that form in the Whites. It makes me think that doing all my hikes in the Northeast makes me more prudent.

[LittleRock]

This thread reminds me of the trip I had to bail out on. Not even close to the conditions this woman experienced in the Whites, but it does feel nice to share a story I've mostly avoided telling people.

A friend and I attempted a traverse of the AT in the Smokies in mid-January several years ago. We had good winter gear but declined to buy crampons. Big mistake. Above 4500' we were already wading through snow drifts up to 2' deep and struggling to avoid ice patches everywhere on the trail. On the afternoon of the 3rd day we were headed up to Clingman's Dome from the Double Spring Shelter when an ice storm hit. After an hour the trail was treacherously icy and more sleet kept falling. It took us over 2 hours to do the last mile up to Clingman's Dome and we both fell several times even with our hiking poles. We got off the trail and headed down Clingman's Dome Road, eventually making it to Mount Collins Shelter well after dark as the sleet turned to snow and several inches fell overnight.

The next day we roadwalked down to Newfound Gap, and even then we were planning to continue when we encountered a gentleman coming southbound. He warned us that the trail to the north was extremely treacherous and warned us not to proceed without crampons. The road had recently been cleared and his wife was coming to pick him up, and he offered us a ride into Gatlinburg. My friend was still convinced we could make it, but I eventually talked her into accepting the ride. I just couldn't get over the thought of one of us getting injured and the subsequent embarassment of having to be rescued.

In retrospect, it turned out to be a good decision. Another foot of snow fell in the high country the next night, and we would have had to hike 30 miles in knee to thigh deep snow without snowshoes. We might have made it, but definitely not in 3 days like we had planned. Bailing out is always a difficult decision to make, but many times it's better than the alternative.

[Tipi Walter]

LittleRock, you make an excellent case for Kahtoolas or crampons. Between 5,000 and 6,500 feet, things get crazy and the common rules and forecasts don't apply. Expect the worst at elevation.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

too bad but bad decisions in the mountains often lead to bad results just like this.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The reality is that most of our hiking and outdoor adventuring, even in the Whites, pales in comparison to the risks of high altitude mountaineering, but I always keep in mind a quote from noted mountaineer Ed Viesturs, who turned around 300 feet from Everest's summit on his first attempt, "Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory." A short read on the decision making subject for those interested http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html

[illabelle]

The reality is that most of our hiking and outdoor adventuring, even in the Whites, pales in comparison to the risks of high altitude mountaineering, but I always keep in mind a quote from noted mountaineer Ed Viesturs, who turned around 300 feet from Everest's summit on his first attempt, "Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory." A short read on the decision making subject for those interested http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html

Very interesting, and the principles are applicable to many of the dicey situations a less adventurous hiker might encounter: crossing a rushing creek, hurrying over an exposed mountaintop as thunderclouds approach, navigating a narrow path beside a steep slope.

[illabelle]

double post

[imscotty]

The reality is that most of our hiking and outdoor adventuring, even in the Whites, pales in comparison to the risks of high altitude mountaineering, but I always keep in mind a quote from noted mountaineer Ed Viesturs, who turned around 300 feet from Everest's summit on his first attempt, "Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory." A short read on the decision making subject for those interested http://www.slate.com/content/slate/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html


A good read, everyone should read this.

[Malto]

A good read, everyone should read this.

I was on a trip last May where a group of us were doing the Lowest to Highest ending with the summit of Whitney. At the top of the chute there is one final climb. The other three hikers were able to get up and over the summit but as I looked at the risk I pulled the plug and returned via a very long glissade back down the chute. I have second guessed that decision ever since. But falling on the icy, scree cover slope would have resulted in a thousand foot fall. logic tells me I made the right call but that little voice keeps questioning it. The other three made it, certainly I would have as well.

[Gray Bear]

I was on a trip last May where a group of us were doing the Lowest to Highest ending with the summit of Whitney. At the top of the chute there is one final climb. The other three hikers were able to get up and over the summit but as I looked at the risk I pulled the plug and returned via a very long glissade back down the chute. I have second guessed that decision ever since. But falling on the icy, scree cover slope would have resulted in a thousand foot fall. logic tells me I made the right call but that little voice keeps questioning it. The other three made it, certainly I would have as well.

We have a saying in the hang gliding community... "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots...but there aint no old bold pilots".
Whitney isn't going anywhere and you didn't end up the topic of discussion on a Whiteblaze thread about the dead guy that should have turned back. It wasn't a bad call.

[Tipi Walter]

I had a tough winter backpacking trip in January 2011 which can be found here---

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=335847

On the trip I took out Ed Viesturs's book No Short Cuts To The Top, and while sitting thru blizzards I wrote out some neat Ed quotes:

QUOTE OF THE DAY
"What's another ten pounds when you're in great shape?" Ed Viesturs(as a Ranier mountain guide with RMI).


MORE QUOTES OF THE DAY
"It doesn't matter how good you are --- in the mountains just when you think you're in control you aren't." VIESTURS


"Just because you love the mountains doesn't mean the mountains love you." Lou Whittaker.

ANOTHER GOOD QUOTE
"Another firm which I had a long-standing informal relationship was Seattle-based Outdoor Research, a maker of technical gloves, mittens, gaiters, and overboots. The products were superbly made --- which is one of the reasons I still have all of my fingers and toes." ED VIESTURS.


AM I THE ED VIESTURS OF SOUTHEAST BACKPACKING?
He is known for his safe climbs and knowing when to stop and pull back when things get hairy. If you look at my last two trips you'll see some of the same behaviors. Knowing when to stop and retreat is his trademark and he has controlled his summit fevers. So too a winter backpacker in the Citico/Slickrock needs to know when to sit out a storm or when to leave the high ground. These decisions don't mean the trip is finished and you go home, and on long three week(or three month)trips you can't rightly bite off more than you can chew and then bail to the car and go home.


Weekend snippet backpackers can park on a Friday in their Range Rovers or four wheel Jeeps at Carvers Gap near Roan Mt or at Massie Gap in Grayson Highlands and pull a tremendous snowshoed winter trip and be out by Sunday with just a couple nights of "hell". When you're dropped off for an 18 day trip and get dumped on by a series of winter storms, it's okay to get into a Viesturs mindset of "safety first" and know how to hunker down for eight days in a nonstop blizzard.

A younger guy with a lighter pack on a shorter trip could posthole for three days and not think twice although his 15 mile days will have to be reduced. So, this gets me thinking about backpackers on the AT this week and how they are faring. Poorly, I bet.

[Neal]

As I always say, Cold Hurts, Wind Kills.

For me, to really understand Kate Matrosova's plight, the Art Davidson winter expedition to Denali in 1967 needs to be studied and duplicated in harsh conditions. Denali is not called the Coldest Mountain without reason.

Art Davidson and two other guys spent 6 days in a tiny snow cave at 18,200 feet with 100mph winds. Six days. With wind chill at -148F.

https://books.google.com/books?id=g8qfM3A7g6AC&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=art+davidson+snowcave&source=bl&ots=e4N2ZNXUIV&sig=QjVoMtjVGFr0TkaIyxFaybWl4b4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ttbkVOiGJcqqgwTBloKAAw&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=art%20davidson%20snowcave&f=false

Was Kate prepared for the same? Could she find a leeward side of the ridge and dig in? Could she sit put out of the wind for 4 days? Would Art Davidson have done the same thing in the Whites that he did on Denali? Did Kate have a bag and a tarp?

http://www.adventure-journal.com/2013/11/climber-art-davidson-on-the-1st-winter-ascent-of-denali-adventure-and-surviving-minus-148-degrees/

http://articles.ktuu.com/2011-01-07/art-davidson_27017036

Sadly ironic that Kate Matrosova read and reviewed this book on Goodreads in 2013:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/678093039

[rocketsocks]

Sadly ironic that Kate Matrosova read and reviewed this book on Goodreads in 2013:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/678093039
Wow, that's a little macabre.

[iAmKrzys]

While we are awaiting more information about this tragic accident, there is already one lesson that can be learned from this story: people who think that a helicopter will arrive half an hour after activating distress call from their PLB should rid themselves of this delusion, and the sooner the better.


Even if a helicopter arrives it is not certain that they will be able to pick up the caller - I highly recommend this winter rescue story on Rosalie Peak in Colorado: http://www.summitpost.org/rescue-on-rosalie-peak-2-19-2011/701157

I do most of my hiking alone and I often go off trail, so I started thinking about getting a PLB about two years ago as I was descending on Boott Spur trail quite late in the day, it started raining, rocks became pretty slippery and I arrived at the ladder. I looked down and thought to myself that if I fell from the top and became disabled my family wouldn't even know where to look for me. Eventually I decided to get a Spot last summer ahead of a week-long backpacking trip in Kings Canyon National Park in California. My choice was driven primarily by tracking mode as 1) I wanted my family to know approximately where I was, 2) I wanted to transmit my location in case I got badly hurt and wouldn't be able to to activate a distress signal, and 3) it would give me an opportunity to test the device accuracy in a variety of conditions myself without relying on manufacturer's marketing hype.

So how accurate is my Spot? It surely matters given the reports that Kate's location transmitted by her PLB were all over the map (which is what I mean by reported "1 mile radius" in this terrain.) Maybe the rescuers could reach her on Sunday if they were certain where she was? Well, after using my Spot for over half a year, I think it is mostly fine i.e. within 50 feet of traces recorded with my Garmin eTrex 30, but there were times where it was so far off that it became a subject of jokes among my family like one time I "hiked" 6.3 miles in 10 minutes or there was a sudden 0.6 mile "side-jump" from the trail. See example below: first is the original screen shot from Spot web site and then comparison to my Garmin traces (in red):

30034

30035

I tried to get Spot support to investigate these problems with fixes but it wasn't going too well and I pretty much gave up after exchanging a couple of e-mails with them without much progress. I also think there are other issues such as the fact that the transmissions sometimes don't go through for quite some time and the unit will automatically shut off 1 hour after it stops detecting motion, so if you get disabled your last location may never make it through. Despite all of its limitations I think I will renew my subscription when the time comes as I don't see other viable alternatives for me.

Bottom line is that I think I am still very much on my own when hiking solo and my chances of survival are maybe only slightly higher if I found myself in a life-threatening situation.

[Neal]

Globe has an interesting article today:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woman-and-mountain/SEBPucaGpA1Fun4R5uoj7K/story.html

[Havana]

So, at the end of day, it comes down to hubris. A modern Greek tragedy.

[eblanche]

Globe has an interesting article today:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woman-and-mountain/SEBPucaGpA1Fun4R5uoj7K/story.html

This article certainly tells us a lot. There is going to be a lot more debate going around as to the safety aspects of these SPOT/locator/GPS devices and the technology involved.

It looks to me like this has turned out to be a case of not turning back soon enough after underestimating her ability (assuming she know of the conditions).

RIP and thanks to all SAR

[Offshore]

While we are awaiting more information about this tragic accident, there is already one lesson that can be learned from this story: people who think that a helicopter will arrive half an hour after activating distress call from their PLB should rid themselves of this delusion, and the sooner the better.


Even if a helicopter arrives it is not certain that they will be able to pick up the caller - I highly recommend this winter rescue story on Rosalie Peak in Colorado: http://www.summitpost.org/rescue-on-rosalie-peak-2-19-2011/701157

I do most of my hiking alone and I often go off trail, so I started thinking about getting a PLB about two years ago as I was descending on Boott Spur trail quite late in the day, it started raining, rocks became pretty slippery and I arrived at the ladder. I looked down and thought to myself that if I fell from the top and became disabled my family wouldn't even know where to look for me. Eventually I decided to get a Spot last summer ahead of a week-long backpacking trip in Kings Canyon National Park in California. My choice was driven primarily by tracking mode as 1) I wanted my family to know approximately where I was, 2) I wanted to transmit my location in case I got badly hurt and wouldn't be able to to activate a distress signal, and 3) it would give me an opportunity to test the device accuracy in a variety of conditions myself without relying on manufacturer's marketing hype.

So how accurate is my Spot? It surely matters given the reports that Kate's location transmitted by her PLB were all over the map (which is what I mean by reported "1 mile radius" in this terrain.) Maybe the rescuers could reach her on Sunday if they were certain where she was? Well, after using my Spot for over half a year, I think it is mostly fine i.e. within 50 feet of traces recorded with my Garmin eTrex 30, but there were times where it was so far off that it became a subject of jokes among my family like one time I "hiked" 6.3 miles in 10 minutes or there was a sudden 0.6 mile "side-jump" from the trail. See example below: first is the original screen shot from Spot web site and then comparison to my Garmin traces (in red):

30034

30035

I tried to get Spot support to investigate these problems with fixes but it wasn't going too well and I pretty much gave up after exchanging a couple of e-mails with them without much progress. I also think there are other issues such as the fact that the transmissions sometimes don't go through for quite some time and the unit will automatically shut off 1 hour after it stops detecting motion, so if you get disabled your last location may never make it through. Despite all of its limitations I think I will renew my subscription when the time comes as I don't see other viable alternatives for me.

Bottom line is that I think I am still very much on my own when hiking solo and my chances of survival are maybe only slightly higher if I found myself in a life-threatening situation.

This post raises a lot of excellent points. Carrying any type of personal locater is not a panacea - the crisis is not over with a press of the SOS button. Its also important to know your equipment capabilities and limitations - especially with safety gear.

I also do a lot of solo hikes and picked up a SPOT Gen 3 at the beginning of last season. I'm experienced with GPS technology - I use handheld and survey-grade GPS units recreationally and professionally and find the occasional wildly erroneous points show up in $100 Garmin to the $10K Trimbles (admittedly much less with the higher end units). There is a lot that goes into getting an accurate GPS point - some you can control and a some that you simply can't. Things you can control include starting with a decent GPS receiver, orienting the antenna properly, and minding the sky cover. Other things out out one's control included topography blocking line of sight to satellites and GPS satellite constellation status (geometry of the array at a particular time, number of working satellites overhead).

Looking at your images, it looks like your SPOT is actually doing pretty well. I do think your second image could easily be misinterpreted, though. What's important in that image is where the SPOT points fall on the Garmin track, not the SPOT track itself. Ignore the yellow line and look at the actual points. A comparison of the tracks to each other is not meaningful due to the difference in resolution - the SPOT tracking interval was 10 minutes and the Garmin was much less. It looks like there are about 15 points in the SPOT track and maybe two or three are way off. That's about an 87% or better agreement, so its not all that bad. It's similar to what I've been seeing in hilly terrain over the last year when comparing my SPOT Gen 3 to my Garmin GPSmap 60csx. The goal is to have good data when you need to press the SOS button.

I try to do this in a couple of ways. First, I pay attention to how the SPOT is attached to my pack since I've found that the SPOT antenna to be more directional than my handheld Garmin. I usually clip the SPOT to the carry handle and tuck the SPOT in the top pocket of the pack, taking care to orient the antenna surface up and not to put anything between the SPOT and the pack material. When I've just clipped it to my pack, I found it winds up upside down or hanging off to the side and the data quality is pretty bad. The second thing I did was to buy the enhanced tracking for $50/year and set my tracking to 2.5 or 5 minute intervals to get a higher resolution track log. I also set up the SPOT shared web page to display my track. I make the page private and give the login info to my emergency contact at home. That provides a track to augment the single point that gets transmitted with an SOS in the event of an emergency. I also like having a higher resolution when I download the points from the SPOT website.

Getting out of the SPOT-specific weeds here, the takeaway is the importance of understanding i) the use, capabilities, and limitations of one's gear; and ii) that no gear can replace common sense.

[FlyFishNut]

IMHO - I don't think it wise to ever depend on someone else to rescue you.

My question is: what did she have in her pack?

My dad drilled into my head starting at age 7, "Bring water, food and some type of provisions to spend the night out - in case your day hike turns into an overnighter". I remember wondering if he was being too safe, but then again he spent literally months in the field in cold weather at the bottom of Mt Fuji and other locales around the world. So, I never questioned his rationale and to this day I have provisions to spend the night if I need to, God Forbid.
Even if it's just an emergency blanket and rain gear during a summer hike. We've all seen warm sunny weather deteriorate to cold soaking rain in the mts in a matter of minutes.

What I don't get about her plan; if everything went perfectly she would arrive back at 6pm and that is a LATE hour. Things can always go South and at 6pm the sun is setting and temps drop even more - so she didn't have any means to dig in? No provisions? I can't wrap my brain around that.

[Slo-go'en]

According to the Globe article, her GPS tracker shows her going up Madison, then Adams, then trying to retrace her tracks back. If she had known the mountain better and the wind was still coming out of the NE, she would have been better off heading towards Thunderstorm Junction and down the Spur trail, which gets you out of the wind fairly quickly and towards some cabins, one of which has a wood stove and help.

[Slo-go'en]

IMHO -
What I don't get about her plan; if everything went perfectly she would arrive back at 6pm and that is a LATE hour. Things can always go South and at 6pm the sun is setting and temps drop even more - so she didn't have any means to dig in? No provisions? I can't wrap my brain around that.

If everything had gone perfectly, she still would have been lucky to make it back down by midnight. The distance isn't far, about 12 miles, but the going is very, very slow. Apparently she did have a snow shovel with her, but didn't have the right place or opportunity to use it.

[Neal]

According to the Globe article, her GPS tracker shows her going up Madison, then Adams, then trying to retrace her tracks back. If she had known the mountain better and the wind was still coming out of the NE, she would have been better off heading towards Thunderstorm Junction and down the Spur trail, which gets you out of the wind fairly quickly and towards some cabins, one of which has a wood stove and help.

Thunderstorm Junction is on the saddle area between Mt. Sam Adams and Mt. Adams. One would expect a wind velocity from the NE to be amplified there (Venturi effect) given the orientation. It would appear that her route back was better shielded from the NE wind at first.

[imscotty]

The Globe article certainly adds to the picture. I am amazed that after summiting Madison she went on summit Adams. She certainly knew what the conditions were by the time she summited Madison. It also sounds like she took time for a selfie at Madison Hut too. Perhaps she still hadn't realized the danger she was in, but clearly she was mistakenly bold to push on to Adams. Perhaps hypothermia was already clouding her decision making.

[Neal]

This post raises a lot of excellent points. Carrying any type of personal locater is not a panacea - the crisis is not over with a press of the SOS button. Its also important to know your equipment capabilities and limitations - especially with safety gear.

I also do a lot of solo hikes and picked up a SPOT Gen 3 at the beginning of last season. I'm experienced with GPS technology - I use handheld and survey-grade GPS units recreationally and professionally and find the occasional wildly erroneous points show up in $100 Garmin to the $10K Trimbles (admittedly much less with the higher end units). There is a lot that goes into getting an accurate GPS point - some you can control and a some that you simply can't. Things you can control include starting with a decent GPS receiver, orienting the antenna properly, and minding the sky cover. Other things out out one's control included topography blocking line of sight to satellites and GPS satellite constellation status (geometry of the array at a particular time, number of working satellites overhead).

Looking at your images, it looks like your SPOT is actually doing pretty well. I do think your second image could easily be misinterpreted, though. What's important in that image is where the SPOT points fall on the Garmin track, not the SPOT track itself. Ignore the yellow line and look at the actual points. A comparison of the tracks to each other is not meaningful due to the difference in resolution - the SPOT tracking interval was 10 minutes and the Garmin was much less. It looks like there are about 15 points in the SPOT track and maybe two or three are way poff. That's about an 87% or better agreement, so its not all that bad. It's similar to what I've been seeing in hilly terrain over the last year when comparing my SPOT Gen 3 to my Garmin GPSmap 60csx. The goal is to have good data when you need to press the SOS button.

I try to do this in a couple of ways. First, I pay attention to how the SPOT is attached to my pack since I've found that the SPOT antenna to be more directional than my handheld Garmin. I usually clip the SPOT to the carry handle and tuck the SPOT in the top pocket of the pack, taking care to orient the antenna surface up and not to put anything between the SPOT and the pack material. When I've just clipped it to my pack, I found it winds up upside down or hanging off to the side and the data quality is pretty bad. The second thing I did was to buy the enhanced tracking for $50/year and set my tracking to 2.5 or 5 minute intervals to get a higher resolution track log. I also set up the SPOT shared web page to display my track. I make the page private and give the login info to my emergency contact at home. That provides a track to augment the sing point that gets transmitted with an SOS in the event of an emergency. I also like having a higher resolution when I download the points from the SPOT website.

Getting out of the SPOT-specific weeds here, the takeaway is the importance of understanding i) the use, capabilities, and limitations of one's gear; and ii) that no gear can replace common sense.

The discussion on PLBs is very interesting but what jumped out at me was this in the Globe article:

"Had she turned on her cellphone, Ober said, she might have been surprised to find that she could get through to 911. But she did not."

It may be that her cell was inoperative due to temps (e.g. It was in her backpack and not close to her body) or damaged but using it to contact 911 if it was functional was a possible last opportunity to be rescued.

i would be interested to see opinions on 911 cell coverage in that area.

[peakbagger]

A couple of observations

911 coverage, There is one nearby cell tower on Pine Mountain but in Madison Col its not line of sight. There is a recently installed tower at the Randolph Jefferson line but I am not sure it would help. There is line of site from the Madison summit cone but Star Lake may be a shaded zone.

Assuming the Daily Sun article is correct that she elected not to wear or carry snowshoes, the snow would have slowed her down considerably below treeline. No matter what her condition it takes a lot calories and exertion to go through waist deep snow.

[Tipi Walter]

No matter what her condition it takes a lot calories and exertion to go through waist deep snow.

I call going thru waist deep snow "a swimming event".

I don't know the lay of the land and what I picture in my mind is probably wrong, but in such dire circumstances---and assuming she was atop a windswept ridge---and knowing what I know now about exposure, wind, snow and cold, I'd bail off the leeward (downwind) side of the ridge and "get lost intentionally", i.e. lose elevation fast and let gravity pull me down in a swimming event.

Such a move means you're permanently off the beaten track, off your route, way off your route---into a valley full of snow but at least partially out of the killer wind. How far can a person drop in waist deep snow? A lot! And down into some no-man's land where no one will probably ever look---lost intentionally---but lost to save your own life. Lose 3,000 feet of elevation if possible and then pull a reassessment. Use the snow shovel to dig out a small shelter.

This is assuming the leeward bail isn't treacherous, rocky, steep or vertical. Like Tuckerman Ravine. In that case, well . . . . . .

[imscotty]

Given that she apparently made it to the top of Mount Adams, instead of fighting those winds back down towards Star lake she might have been off going down the western side of Adams. There are a number of trails there that could lead you to The Perch or Gray Knob. My guess is that she had already used up all of her reserves and was cold enough by that point that there were no winning options.

Of course indications are that she had not hiked the Whites before and perhaps she was not aware of what her options were. Two lessons I take from this to make the decision to bail while you still have the strength to do so and to know what your bailout points are. She would have been much better off if she practiced this traverse on a summer hike first.

To Tipi, Star Lake is near he edge of the drop off to the 'Great Gulf Wilderness.' From what I have seen of that, it is nothing I would want to drop down into, although your point is well taken.

[Acacia]

Does anyone know if she hiked up 3,000 feet from Route 2 to Mt Adams and was very sweaty, and the weather turned much colder and windier, if she had stopped for a bit at any point hence everything wet on her body would have started to freeze, wouldn't it? Perhaps only if she had been able to keep moving or make a snow cave, could she then have maintained heat?

[Tipi Walter]

Does anyone know if she hiked up 3,000 feet from Route 2 to Mt Adams and was very sweaty, and the weather turned much colder and windier, if she had stopped for a bit at any point hence everything wet on her body would have started to freeze, wouldn't it? Perhaps only if she had been able to keep moving or make a snow cave, could she then have maintained heat?

She was probably skilled at sweat management and the rudiments of keeping her warmth layers organized and functioning. Just an educated guess. As the Rangers said, she had good gear to hike, she just picked the worst day to do it.

For anyone who has been in similar conditions---brutal cold, tremendous winds, possible whiteout, no visibility---choices go down to near zero and life hangs by a thread.

[Praha4]

her first time in the Whites, my guess is the only trails programmed in her GPS were her planned route from Madison to Washingon. She backtracked on Star Lake trail, not being familiar with other route options to get down from Mt. Adams.

...what's that Star Lake Trail like, terrain wise, between the Madison Spring Hut and Mt. Adams.....question for those who hike up there?
Contour map of the Whites shows about a +1,000 ft elevation climb from Star Lake (~ 4,840') to Mt. Adams peak (5,799')... over a distance of approx. 0.6 miles....does that sound about right? that's a fairly steep climb even in the summer

[Slo-go'en]

Great Gulf wilderness on one side and King Ravine on the other. You don't want to go down into either. Or get too close to the edge, it's a long, near vertical slide to the bottom. Pretty much only one way out, the Valley Way.

Yes, she was probably very sweaty. Bare booting it up through the snow drifts would have been a lot of work. You need to be able to keep moving or change clothes. Eventually she got hurt by being knocked down by the wind, at which point she could no longer move. I've had my knees crunched more then once up there, having been knocked into rocks by the wind.

[Slo-go'en]

Star Lake is in a Col between Madison and Adams. Except for some low scrub, it's open and wind swept. The Cols can act like wind tunnels as they funnel the wind up the ravines and between the summits. There's a minor summit between the Col and the summit of Adams proper. There are a few steep pitches and it's a jumble of boulders the whole way up. Which is one of the hazards. It's easy to step between two boulders and sink in up to the knee. You can snap your leg off if you trip or get blown off your feet into one of those.

[Feral Bill]

A long uphill grunt in deep snow, even with snowshoes is no joke. For perspective, long ago a friend and I were planning the same route as a multi-day trip. We snowshoed up Valley Way in deep, heavy wet snow, with more coming down. We were nearing treeline when we called it a day, made a snow platform, pitched a tent, ate and went to bed. The next morning was beautiful, but we were beat and headed back down the trail. At the time, I had doubts about our decision. Now I do not.

[Tipi Walter]

Out of touch for awhile, but anyone know in what way she was injured---other than obvious exposure?

[imscotty]

The Boston Globe article mentioned scrapes on here face. The rescue team indicated they thought she had fallen. In those winds I imagine she could have been blown around quite a bit. I imagine there will be a coroners report at some point with more information.

I feel bad taking part in a public discussion of this poor woman's demise, but there is much we can all learn here. This discussion has helped me and will make me more cautious. I do extend my sympathies to her friends and her family. I pray that they will find solace in the moments they shared with her.

[Neal]

Out of touch for awhile, but anyone know in what way she was injured---other than obvious exposure?

Globe article mentions "Her pack was off, and her face was scraped and cut" when found.

[Neal]

The possibility of suffering from a concussion comes to mind.

[One Half]

Many of us have questioned lots of her choices. Myself included. I live in NH about 2 hours south of where she was dropped off at 5AM. While I am not sure of the weather where she was dropped off, I know that Saturday evening we had snow which extended into Sunday morning, near white out conditions here. None of us went out until after the snow had stopped as the conditions made driving unsafe.

[Slo-go'en]

The possibility of suffering from a concussion comes to mind.

That's a definite possibility. There are a lot of rocks to hit one's head on up there if you get blown off your feet. It's all about timing. If she had chosen this weekend to do that hike, she probably would have made it.

[Lightingguy59]

There was comment by the NH State folks as the fact that there was no cell phone call for help. Others have posted that perhaps there is no cell coverage or that her phone was non functional given the cold, a distinct possibility.

Another thought is that there's a likelihood sh was using a touch screen smart phone (a guess - but a NY investment banker without an iPhone 6 ?), that would have required her to remove gloves on at least one hand in order to use the phone. You cannot even activate the 911 feature without having a finger touch the screen, thus it would not surprise me if she realized this and never attempted.

Speculation of course.

I do know that this women's death has bothered me for a lot of reasons, mostly as she seemed otherwise smart and fit and just made some unfortunate choices that cost her her life.

[TNhiker]

The possibility of suffering from a concussion comes to mind.





yeah.........along with getting the wind knocked outta ya and probably sore from getting blown around or sprained ankles and injuries like that.........

[Neal]

There was comment by the NH State folks as the fact that there was no cell phone call for help. Others have posted that perhaps there is no cell coverage or that her phone was non functional given the cold, a distinct possibility.

Another thought is that there's a likelihood sh was using a touch screen smart phone (a guess - but a NY investment banker without an iPhone 6 ?), that would have required her to remove gloves on at least one hand in order to use the phone. You cannot even activate the 911 feature without having a finger touch the screen, thus it would not surprise me if she realized this and never attempted.

Speculation of course.

I do know that this women's death has bothered me for a lot of reasons, mostly as she seemed otherwise smart and fit and just made some unfortunate choices that cost her her life.

That is why it is a good idea to have a stylus for your iPhone etc in very cold weather.

[Praha4]

found this summertime pic taken by a dayhiker.... a view from Mt. Adams peak, looking toward Mt. Madison, and Star Lake is visible.

http://kaibab.org/kaibab.org/nh00b/nh00211m.jpg

[Neal]

For those unfamiliar with the terrain, this series of graphics from the Globe may be helpful.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/1969/12/16/winter-hike-turns-dire/SCoZRYuJQq0bzTelCybf7K/story.html

[Chair-man]

Very sad, I had a couple of questions.
How many miles did she plan to hike and how many miles from the trailhead was she found?

[Neal]

Showing the terrain from the Boston Globe30057

[Driver8]

found this summertime pic taken by a dayhiker.... a view from Mt. Adams peak, looking toward Mt. Madison, and Star Lake is visible.

http://kaibab.org/kaibab.org/nh00b/nh00211m.jpg

The subpeak left of and before Star Lake is John Quincy Adams. Kate would've been in he mountain's lee, relative to the prevailing north/NNE winds until she got to where she was found. I think it likely she got blown off trail by a big blast as she got to this point. She probably was trying to get back to the hut and to the Valley Way.

As Tipi suggests, a descent down the Buttress Trail into the Great Gulf, building a snow shelter at as low an elevation as possible as much blocked from the brutal winds, was probably her best bet. She may not've known of that option. The Buttress descends SSW from very near where she ended up.

[Driver8]

I just checked the AMC White Mountain Guide online, to which I subscribe, and it shows the Buttress Trail, from the Star Lake Trail junction near Kate's endpoint, to be a 1581 foot descent in 1.9 miles to the Six Husbands Trail, which would've gotten her to about 3300' and well out of the wind. She'd've been deep in the heart of the very remote and wild Great Gulf, and she might have found herself in a Hugh Herr scenario, losing her legs and on the edge of death. But it might've been better than trying to head across the pass to the Valley Way, into the impregnable high winds. Terrible situation.

[peakbagger]

The tricky part of this event is how close to civilization Madison Col is. My house is 4 miles away as the crow flies and the trailhead is about 3 miles. The elevation change is about 3600 feet vertical from the trailhead. On a calm day in winter with broken out trails, its a 2 to 3 hour walk to Madison Col and many folks can climb Madison and Adams in under 6 hours. Some folks can do it under an hour. I shuttled a hiker two years ago in February who did a hike about 1/3 longer in 10 hours. There are several locations on the AT that are similar elevation, what makes Mt Washington odd is the location relative to two three major storm tracks, that's one of the reasons why Mt Washington is advertised as having the worlds worst weather. They lost the title of highest wind velocity recorded on the face of the earth to a tropical cyclone in the Pacific but second highest (231 MPH) is still very impressive.

The total distance she planned to hike is roughly 13 miles. She was about 3 miles from the trailhead. Treeline was less than 1/3 mile from Star Lake where the hikers body was located. It sounds simple but in high wind conditions walking just a 100 feet can take 10 to 15 minutes. This video may be illustrating of lesser winds than the hiker was exposed to http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?55399-Extreme-Wind-Video-on-Mount-Washington. The hiker would have been walking into the wind. The person in the video was standing inside the building and would have headed right back in after it was shot versus the hiker who had been out for several hours. Realistically Madison Col and the area of reference is not real large on nice day.

[peakbagger]

The Buttress trail may be sheltered but is well above treeline and slabs a very steep slope for 2/3s of a mile. I don't think it would have led to different outcome. Madison Col in general is not a place to go as its highly unlike the hiker would not be found by a rescue crew for days.

[Driver8]

The Buttress trail may be sheltered but is well above treeline and slabs a very steep slope for 2/3s of a mile. I don't think it would have led to different outcome. Madison Col in general is not a place to go as its highly unlike the hiker would not be found by a rescue crew for days.

She had no good choices. Given where she ended up, she might even have been attempting a Buttress bail-out. Definitely super steep, but would the powder amidst the scrub and then trees have helped slow the descent, providing, well, no avalanche?

[peakbagger]

No scrub in that first stretch on Buttress trail, just steep rock slabs with boulder fields. If you are up in the whites on clear day, bring some good binoculars and park at the autoroad parking. You can get a very good view of the terrain that the Buttress traverses.

I did make a mistake in my prior post, I meant to say Madison Gulf not Madison Col.

[Driver8]

No scrub in that first stretch on Buttress trail, just steep rock slabs with boulder fields. If you are up in the whites on clear day, bring some good binoculars and park at the autoroad parking. You can get a very good view of the terrain that the Buttress traverses.

I took a good look at it in Google Maps Earth View. I think we all agree that, coming back from Adams, by time she got towards where her trek ended, she had no good options. Buttress might've been the least bad. Beyond a certain point, the discussion becomes academic.

[Praha4]

that video gives a good idea what it's like being out in hurricane force winds ... here in NW Fla beaches, I've lived through several Category 2+ hurricanes, and being out in those winds briefly, it does knock you off your feet, almost impossible to stand, you have to get down on the ground and crawl to make any headway. Not to mention that kind of wind turns any loose debris into a hail of missiles, which would cause serious injury. And my experiences were in temps in the 80s....no comparison to being in that kind of wind with a backpack, in sub-freezing temps, with wind chill factor way below limits. The SAR teams really did an extraordinary job getting up there.


The tricky part of this event is how close to civilization Madison Col is. My house is 4 miles away as the crow flies and the trailhead is about 3 miles. The elevation change is about 3600 feet vertical from the trailhead. On a calm day in winter with broken out trails, its a 2 to 3 hour walk to Madison Col and many folks can climb Madison and Adams in under 6 hours. Some folks can do it under an hour. I shuttled a hiker two years ago in February who did a hike about 1/3 longer in 10 hours. There are several locations on the AT that are similar elevation, what makes Mt Washington odd is the location relative to two three major storm tracks, that's one of the reasons why Mt Washington is advertised as having the worlds worst weather. They lost the title of highest wind velocity recorded on the face of the earth to a tropical cyclone in the Pacific but second highest (231 MPH) is still very impressive.

The total distance she planned to hike is roughly 13 miles. She was about 3 miles from the trailhead. Treeline was less than 1/3 mile from Star Lake where the hikers body was located. It sounds simple but in high wind conditions walking just a 100 feet can take 10 to 15 minutes. This video may be illustrating of lesser winds than the hiker was exposed to http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?55399-Extreme-Wind-Video-on-Mount-Washington. The hiker would have been walking into the wind. The person in the video was standing inside the building and would have headed right back in after it was shot versus the hiker who had been out for several hours. Realistically Madison Col and the area of reference is not real large on nice day.

[Gray Bear]

Here's a shot from my last trip up Madison. I came up the Madison Head wall out of the Great Gulf. This shot it from Madison looking down on Star Lake with Adams in the background.
http://www.dmkerr.com/Backpacking-in-the-White-Mouta/Madison/i-NVNgrCS/A

[Another Kevin]

I don't think I saw this in the thread yet. This video is from the Androscoggin Valley SAR crew that recovered the body. Remember, this is the next day, after the wind had died down. Ms. Matrosova was facing much stronger winds, and look at what's happening to the searchers in the background even in the "good" weather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4u6VyrgCk\

[iAmKrzys]

Now that we know she had a gps with her it can provide a lot more clues as to what happened. Here is a couple of things that I wonder about:


What time did she turn around?
How long did it take her to descend from Mt. Adams and how did it compare with the ascent time?
According to the article she was found "several hundred feet below trail." Did she gradually veer off course, maybe getting really tired, or was she abruptly side-swept by the wind?
Was her path steady and continuous or was she possibly hurled by the wind more than once?
We know that the distress call came through around 3:30 pm but what time did she actually active her PLB? Where was she at the time based on her gps traces?
Where and how did she move after sending a distress signal?


For those who don't have area maps I think most of the trails in the Presidential Range are marked on OpenStreetMap.org: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/44.3235/-71.2850&layers=C

[Malto]

I don't think I saw this in the thread yet. This video is from the Androscoggin Valley SAR crew that recovered the body. Remember, this is the next day, after the wind had died down. Ms. Matrosova was facing much stronger winds, and look at what's happening to the searchers in the background even in the "good" weather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4u6VyrgCk\

I saw this on mags website. One of the most incredible video I have seen. Notice the guys getting blown over aren't using trekking poles.

[Mags]

...and the people in the video AK linked to are some of the most experienced SAR folks in the country as well.

Be careful out there.

[Tipi Walter]

I don't think I saw this in the thread yet. This video is from the Androscoggin Valley SAR crew that recovered the body. Remember, this is the next day, after the wind had died down. Ms. Matrosova was facing much stronger winds, and look at what's happening to the searchers in the background even in the "good" weather.

The vid brings up some practical pointers. I notice a few guys wearing down jackets under their rescue packs and it reminds me how rarely I've worn my down jacket or pants while backpacking---NEVER. Well, just once when I was sick with a fever and had chilblains and had a 8 mile hike out at 15F. The only other time would be in conditions shown above---a high elevation windswept snowy ridge at 10F or below.

[Another Kevin]

I saw this on mags website. One of the most incredible video I have seen. Notice the guys getting blown over aren't using trekking poles.

I can't quite make it out in the video, but they've got something in their hands. I'm pretty sure the next-to-last guy has an ice axe out. I find that I almost always have the axe out above treeline - and strike the 'almost' if I've switched to full crampons - if you need crampons, you need an ice axe.

I was just about to switch from snowshoes and poles to crampons and ice axe when my buddy took this picture.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xvyzSzc_Hhw/VJimHOfA0TI/AAAAAAAAloI/su5ms3mrDBw/s480/DSC_3880.JPG

Note the size of packs we've brought - for a day trip. Two things I really don't want to be without on top of a Northeast 4k in the winter are my sleeping bag and my snow shovel. That peak we're climbing in the picture killed a hiker (http://www.registerstar.com/news/article_ecdbaa12-500e-54f1-9c70-2f73576183b6.html) four years ago. Winter in the peaks is unforgiving.

[Neal]

See:

http://northeastexplorer.com/wordpress/?p=1931

[iAmKrzys]

For those unfamiliar with the terrain, this series of graphics from the Globe may be helpful.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/1969/12/16/winter-hike-turns-dire/SCoZRYuJQq0bzTelCybf7K/story.html

I grabbed some raw trail data from http://OpenStreetMap.org and recreated Kate's itinerary based on the Boston Globe graphics.

30069

It looks like she was planning to do 13.4 miles in 13 hours, so that would translate to about 1 mile an hour including stops. This may not seem like a lot but we all know that the distance is only a small part of the equation here and the real thing is the cumulative elevation gain.
Based on the track and the average speed estimate I put together a rough timeline for the initial stages:


Appalachia parking lot - distance 0, elevation 1320 ft, start at 5 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 3.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA 8:30 am
Mt. Madison - distance 3.9 miles, elevation 5367 ft, ETA 9:15 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 4.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA, 9:45 am
Mt. Adams - distance 5.1 miles, elevation 5793 ft, ETA 10:45 am and already running a bit late.

I am a slow hiker, so I was curious how I would fare in comparison to her plan. I looked at my gps traces from a summer hike to Mt. Washington via Lion Head trail and I focused on the segment between Hermit Lake and Mt. Washington. I discovered that my average moving speed was 1.25 miles an hour, and including all the stops my overall average speed was a measly 0.7 miles per hour. Whoa! I would have a hard time doing this hike in the summer - no snow, no debilitating wind! I'm sure she was a much better hiker than me and in much better shape, but given the conditions I am still wondering why she didn't turn around earlier. My best guess is that she thought she could do Mt. Adams as a consolation prize and then turn back to the parking lot. If so, she must have thought she would be able to fight the wind on her way back and hiking to the top of Mt. Madison must have already given her a taste of going against the wind. Hence, I'm thinking that either the wind picked up a lot as she turned back from Mt. Adams or she got hurt on the way back.

[Neal]

I grabbed some raw trail data from http://OpenStreetMap.org and recreated Kate's itinerary based on the Boston Globe graphics.

30069

It looks like she was planning to do 13.4 miles in 13 hours, so that would translate to about 1 mile an hour including stops. This may not seem like a lot but we all know that the distance is only a small part of the equation here and the real thing is the cumulative elevation gain.
Based on the track and the average speed estimate I put together a rough timeline for the initial stages:


Appalachia parking lot - distance 0, elevation 1320 ft, start at 5 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 3.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA 8:30 am
Mt. Madison - distance 3.9 miles, elevation 5367 ft, ETA 9:15 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 4.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA, 9:45 am
Mt. Adams - distance 5.1 miles, elevation 5793 ft, ETA 10:45 am and already running a bit late.

I am a slow hiker, so I was curious how I would fare in comparison to her plan. I looked at my gps traces from a summer hike to Mt. Washington via Lion Head trail and I focused on the segment between Hermit Lake and Mt. Washington. I discovered that my average moving speed was 1.25 miles an hour, and including all the stops my overall average speed was a measly 0.7 miles per hour. Whoa! I would have a hard time doing this hike in the summer - no snow, no debilitating wind! I'm sure she was a much better hiker than me and in much better shape, but given the conditions I am still wondering why she didn't turn around earlier. My best guess is that she thought she could do Mt. Adams as a consolation prize and then turn back to the parking lot. If so, she must have thought she would be able to fight the wind on her way back and hiking to the top of Mt. Madison must have already given her a taste of going against the wind. Hence, I'm thinking that either the wind picked up a lot as she turned back from Mt. Adams or she got hurt on the way back.

per the Globe article the wind on Sunday at Mt. Washington was 40 mph sustained in the morning and between 3pm and 4pm, the wind was 77 mph and there had been 100mph gusts. The winds were even worse on Monday morning with gusts of 140 mph. My understanding is that windspeeds at Mt. Washington are measured ~33 ft above the ground so they tend to be higher than those at ground level. Additionally, it is likely that the windspeeds at Madison/Adams were less due to the lower elevation. However, as has been noted above, the Madison Col tends to have a wind tunnel effect acting to increase the velocity of the wind passing through it.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I grabbed some raw trail data from http://OpenStreetMap.org and recreated Kate's itinerary based on the Boston Globe graphics.

30069

It looks like she was planning to do 13.4 miles in 13 hours, so that would translate to about 1 mile an hour including stops. This may not seem like a lot but we all know that the distance is only a small part of the equation here and the real thing is the cumulative elevation gain.
Based on the track and the average speed estimate I put together a rough timeline for the initial stages:


Appalachia parking lot - distance 0, elevation 1320 ft, start at 5 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 3.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA 8:30 am
Mt. Madison - distance 3.9 miles, elevation 5367 ft, ETA 9:15 am
Madison Spring Hut - distance 4.4 miles, elevation 4800 ft, ETA, 9:45 am
Mt. Adams - distance 5.1 miles, elevation 5793 ft, ETA 10:45 am and already running a bit late.

I am a slow hiker, so I was curious how I would fare in comparison to her plan. I looked at my gps traces from a summer hike to Mt. Washington via Lion Head trail and I focused on the segment between Hermit Lake and Mt. Washington. I discovered that my average moving speed was 1.25 miles an hour, and including all the stops my overall average speed was a measly 0.7 miles per hour. Whoa! I would have a hard time doing this hike in the summer - no snow, no debilitating wind! I'm sure she was a much better hiker than me and in much better shape, but given the conditions I am still wondering why she didn't turn around earlier. My best guess is that she thought she could do Mt. Adams as a consolation prize and then turn back to the parking lot. If so, she must have thought she would be able to fight the wind on her way back and hiking to the top of Mt. Madison must have already given her a taste of going against the wind. Hence, I'm thinking that either the wind picked up a lot as she turned back from Mt. Adams or she got hurt on the way back.
I agree on the pace. It seems optimistic under ideal conditions given the season. And like you, exceeding my ability, even in my youth.


per the Globe article the wind on Sunday at Mt. Washington was 40 mph sustained in the morning and between 3pm and 4pm, the wind was 77 mph and there had been 100mph gusts. The winds were even worse on Monday morning with gusts of 140 mph. My understanding is that windspeeds at Mt. Washington are measured ~33 ft above the ground so they tend to be higher than those at ground level. Additionally, it is likely that the windspeeds at Madison/Adams were less due to the lower elevation. However, as has been noted above, the Madison Col tends to have a wind tunnel effect acting to increase the velocity of the wind passing through it.

I'd like to just throw in my thoughts regarding visibility. I've never been up there in winter on a bad day. I only climbed Mt. Washington once in winter, some 30+ years ago, and it was sunny with relatively calm winds. But I have been in whiteout situations in other places, and have been up above treeline in dense fog/clouding in the summer, where even finding the next cairn was often next to impossible. It slowed us down considerably, probably doubling our hiking time above treeline. I'm wondering as to what degree blowing snow, "flat light" in the afternoon, goggle icing, etc. and other factors may have played into poor visibility further slowing her progress along with the wind. Add in blowing snow/rime ice making it difficult to determine "the path", and find or read any signs at trail intersections.
Which leads me to wonder that IF she had reached or neared the summit of Mt. Adams (reports are unclear if she made the summit or her overall progress before turning back) if she would have been better off continuing with the wind at her back (still difficult and dangerous given the velocity but perhaps less exhausting) and trying to bail out elsewhere such as down towards the Perch, Camp Crag, or other possible shelter opportunities. I'm saying this but at the same time readily admit that I have no idea if the other trails coming down off Mt. Adams would have been identifiable (or passable) given the conditions - or even if she knew of these options. Just wondering in hindsight.

[Neal]

I agree on the pace. It seems optimistic under ideal conditions given the season. And like you, exceeding my ability, even in my youth.



I'd like to just throw in my thoughts regarding visibility. I've never been up there in winter on a bad day. I only climbed Mt. Washington once in winter, some 30+ years ago, and it was sunny with relatively calm winds. But I have been in whiteout situations in other places, and have been up above treeline in dense fog/clouding in the summer, where even finding the next cairn was often next to impossible. It slowed us down considerably, probably doubling our hiking time above treeline. I'm wondering as to what degree blowing snow, "flat light" in the afternoon, goggle icing, etc. and other factors may have played into poor visibility further slowing her progress along with the wind. Add in blowing snow/rime ice making it difficult to determine "the path", and find or read any signs at trail intersections.
Which leads me to wonder that IF she had reached or neared the summit of Mt. Adams (reports are unclear if she made the summit or her overall progress before turning back) if she would have been better off continuing with the wind at her back (still difficult and dangerous given the velocity but perhaps less exhausting) and trying to bail out elsewhere such as down towards the Perch, Camp Crag, or other possible shelter opportunities. I'm saying this but at the same time readily admit that I have no idea if the other trails coming down off Mt. Adams would have been identifiable (or passable) given the conditions - or even if she knew of these options. Just wondering in hindsight.

the Globe graphic indicates a wind coming out of the northwest over Adams.

[peakbagger]

The only really well marked trail off of Adams is Lowes Path which is marked by a significant line of cairns located at fairly close intervals. In a whiteout with wind even seeing from cairn to cairn is difficult. It also is heading almost directly into the wind and as it approaches Thunderstorm Junction the terrain is flat and featureless, if someone gets blown off course, they could end up on the headwall of Kings Ravine which is very bad option as there is no safe way down. The Airline trail has cairns, they are smaller and farther apart, in whiteout/wind it would be easy to loose. It does follow roughly a straight bearing so a compass would work. As long as the hiker doesn't walk past Gulfside trail they would end up at Madison Col. Star Lake trail is also marginally marked with small cairns and some distance between them. It slabs steep areas and curves making it difficult to follow using a compass. It is sheltered from the prevailing wind (but that is very relative thing in 100 mph winds) until it gets down near Star Lake where it picks up the wind tunnel effect. Having spent a few hikes wandering around in fog with far lesser winds in the past, even what appear to be closely spaced cairns can still not be enough.

[Driver8]

the Globe graphic indicates a wind coming out of the northwest over Adams.

That's the generally prevailing winter wind direction, but the wind on the day in question, IIRC from MW Obs data and/or FB discussions, was more NNE.

[Neal]

Here is the High Summits Report for Sunday, Feb. 15 which was issued by the Mt. Washington Observatory late on Saturday (courtesy of another blog/forum):
“As low pressure moves offshore tonight, the strengthening system will continue to produce exceptional winds ripping through New Hampshire from the north. Temperatures will be the coldest of the season thus far with wind speeds becoming sustained in the triple digits. This movement will drive the influx of cold Arctic air moving in from the northwest, producing extremely cold temperatures and producing wind chill values near 100 below.
With severe conditions expected from summits to the valleys, hiking will be extremely risky Sunday through Monday and hiking above tree line is strongly discouraged. If search and rescue needs arise, help will be slow going or postponed until conditions improve. All SAR assistance if needed will have to come from below, as summit staff will not be able to assist in any way, shape, or form. A single injury will potentially put several lives at risk not just your own. Additionally, driving to locations will be risky with whiteout conditions expected along roadways and possible downed tree limbs in areas. Hiking in the woods will also have the risk of falling limbs or trees. Blowing snow will also be limiting vis in all areas of the state too. And as previously mentioned, frostbite and hypothermia risks will be present statewide. This means that if goggles whip off your head in the winds, you run a high risk of injury.”

The highest recorded wind on Feb. 15 was out of the north. See:

https://www.mountwashington.org/uploads/forms/2015/02.pdf

My understanding is that the wind direction (and speed) changed over the course of the Feb. 15 from NNE to NW.

[booney_1]

I saw on the news she was from Siberia. Sometimes familiarity breeds contempt when it comes to weather dangers.

Does anyone know if she was using skis or snowshoes? I assume that you HAVE to have one or the other in this area.
Has anyone read what she had with her? I would assume you'd have a good down bag and tent. (I understand that a tent would might have been difficult to put up)

It's quite curious that she could not build a quick snow cave in a drift, and take shelter.

[booney_1]

Here's the best story, I've seen..
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woman-and-mountain/SEBPucaGpA1Fun4R5uoj7K/story.html

The rescuer in this story who first saw her think she was blown a couple hundred feet off the trail by the wind. A traumatic injury, or even being knocked unconscious would explain a few things.

It's almost impossible for a "flat" lander to understand what that kind of weather is like. I grew up in Syracuse, and saw some pretty cold weather and snow. Visibility does go very fast in the snow...

[booney_1]

(I meant a "flat" lander like me!) There's cold...then there's the whites..

[Lightingguy59]

Had you followed some of the links, especially the FB pages, she was seemingly a somewhat experienced hiker and adventurer at higher altitudes, having ascended Mt Erebus as well as Kilamenjaro - if I can recall the details. So some experience in the cold as well as mountaineering conditions and high altitude.

Possibly no experience in the Whites, especially in winter, which although a lower altitude then what she has experienced prior is known to us as a killer mountain range.


Here's the best story, I've seen..
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woman-and-mountain/SEBPucaGpA1Fun4R5uoj7K/story.html

The rescuer in this story who first saw her think she was blown a couple hundred feet off the trail by the wind. A traumatic injury, or even being knocked unconscious would explain a few things.

It's almost impossible for a "flat" lander to understand what that kind of weather is like. I grew up in Syracuse, and saw some pretty cold weather and snow. Visibility does go very fast in the snow...

[Neal]

Had you followed some of the links, especially the FB pages, she was seemingly a somewhat experienced hiker and adventurer at higher altitudes, having ascended Mt Erebus as well as Kilamenjaro - if I can recall the details. So some experience in the cold as well as mountaineering conditions and high altitude.

Possibly no experience in the Whites, especially in winter, which although a lower altitude then what she has experienced prior is known to us as a killer mountain range.

According to Saunders of NH Fish & Game, this was her first time in the Presidential Range.

[Neal]

The email was from a family member of Kate Matrosova thanking me for being truthful about her and for defending her. I will not include the email in its entirety because it is confidential. Here are some additional facts about Kate:
Kate has climbed four summits (McKinley, Elbrus, Kilimanjaro, and Aconcagua) as well as many other 15-25k ft mountains, and had the very best gear that is available. She has done this mountain (White Mountains) range before in the winter, about a month ago and had no problems. Most of her free time over the last 5 years had been spent climbing difficult mountains and training. She has run many marathons and could not have been in better physical condition. She was also the number 2 ranked female for Judo in the USA for her age group.

Source: http://www.wingsdailynews.com/tag/kate-matrosova/

[4eyedbuzzard]

[SIZE=3][FONT=times new roman]
The email was from a family member of Kate Matrosova thanking me for being truthful about her and for defending her. I will not include the email in its entirety because it is confidential. Here are some additional facts about Kate:
Kate has climbed four summits (McKinley, Elbrus, Kilimanjaro, and Aconcagua) as well as many other 15-25k ft mountains, and had the very best gear that is available. She has done this mountain (White Mountains) range before in the winter, about a month ago and had no problems. Most of her free time over the last 5 years had been spent climbing difficult mountains and training. She has run many marathons and could not have been in better physical condition. She was also the number 2 ranked female for Judo in the USA for her age group.

Source: http://www.wingsdailynews.com/tag/kate-matrosova/After reading your article, I understand your anger directed at comments by some people who likely have never hiked under challenging conditions and or done any climbing or mountaineering.

But I was struck a bit negatively by a couple of comments you made. The first comment was, "I think she was self-assured and confident with her climbing abilities and was a badass who was looking for a challenge and wanted to do a solo traverse." And I think many of us read into this incident a lot of those same thoughts. Self -assured, confident (perhaps over-confident), and badass. Yet you kind of defend her decision process in your article. Unfortunately, those personality traits, which while in some measure are needed for success, are the same ones that when not kept in check will get you killed on the mountain. As you are obviously well versed in the subject, you know well the old saying, "There are old mountaineers, and bold mountaineers, but there are no old, bold mountaineers." Regardless of us identifying with, sympathizing with, and mourning her tragic accident, in the final analysis, she made bad decisions. I just don't see how her decision process, that of climbing alone and continuing on into deteriorating weather conditions, can be objectively defended as good decision making and blaming bad luck alone on the outcome.

The second comment you made, "I’ve climbed Mt. Washington solo in February and consider myself very luck to have not died. [sic]" Then bluntly, you also made bad decisions, because when survival comes down to luck, you are out of control of the situation. Go to the well one too many times and good luck almost always runs out. And while some may disagree, I believe that anyone who leaves a trail head (or doesn't turn back) relying on luck and/or hope to even in a small way help them make it back alive, needs to reevaluate their plan and undertaking.

Some are of the mind that incidents such as this one simply shouldn't be discussed. But for the same reasons that physicians have morbidity and mortality reviews, and pilots discuss air crashes, people who hike and climb in these mountains discuss events that touch upon what they do. Such discussions tend to be objective and unemotional - what went wrong that produced the bad outcome. Like it or not, it's how we learn what to do, and what not to do, where the process went wrong, etc., so that we don't make similar mistakes.

I sympathize for her, her family, and friends. Let's hope that others can learn from her tragic death.

[Neal]

[SIZE=3][FONT=times new roman]After reading your article, I understand your anger directed at comments by some people who likely have never hiked under challenging conditions and or done any climbing or mountaineering.

But I was struck a bit negatively by a couple of comments you made. The first comment was, "I think she was self-assured and confident with her climbing abilities and was a badass who was looking for a challenge and wanted to do a solo traverse." And I think many of us read into this incident a lot of those same thoughts. Self -assured, confident (perhaps over-confident), and badass. Yet you kind of defend her decision process in your article. Unfortunately, those personality traits, which while in some measure are needed for success, are the same ones that when not kept in check will get you killed on the mountain. As you are obviously well versed in the subject, you know well the old saying, "There are old mountaineers, and bold mountaineers, but there are no old, bold mountaineers." Regardless of us identifying with, sympathizing with, and mourning her tragic accident, in the final analysis, she made bad decisions. I just don't see how her decision process, that of climbing alone and continuing on into deteriorating weather conditions, can be objectively defended as good decision making and blaming bad luck alone on the outcome.

The second comment you made, "I’ve climbed Mt. Washington solo in February and consider myself very luck to have not died. [sic]" Then bluntly, you also made bad decisions, because when survival comes down to luck, you are out of control of the situation. Go to the well one too many times and good luck almost always runs out. And while some may disagree, I believe that anyone who leaves a trail head (or doesn't turn back) relying on luck and/or hope to even in a small way help them make it back alive, needs to reevaluate their plan and undertaking.

Some are of the mind that incidents such as this one simply shouldn't be discussed. But for the same reasons that physicians have morbidity and mortality reviews, and pilots discuss air crashes, people who hike and climb in these mountains discuss events that touch upon what they do. Such discussions tend to be objective and unemotional - what went wrong that produced the bad outcome. Like it or not, it's how we learn what to do, and what not to do, where the process went wrong, etc., so that we don't make similar mistakes.

I sympathize for her, her family, and friends. Let's hope that others can learn from her tragic death.

That was a repost. Not my article. Suggest you may want to post your comment on the page I linked to and let the author know your views.

[4eyedbuzzard]

That was a repost. Not my article. Suggest you may want to post your comment on the page I linked to and let the author know your views.Sorry, you didn't put it in quotes, so I assumed the "me" was you and you were sourcing your own article.

[mtntopper]

[SIZE=3][FONT=times new roman]After reading your article, I understand your anger directed at comments by some people who likely have never hiked under challenging conditions and or done any climbing or mountaineering.

But I was struck a bit negatively by a couple of comments you made. The first comment was, "I think she was self-assured and confident with her climbing abilities and was a badass who was looking for a challenge and wanted to do a solo traverse." And I think many of us read into this incident a lot of those same thoughts. Self -assured, confident (perhaps over-confident), and badass. Yet you kind of defend her decision process in your article. Unfortunately, those personality traits, which while in some measure are needed for success, are the same ones that when not kept in check will get you killed on the mountain. As you are obviously well versed in the subject, you know well the old saying, "There are old mountaineers, and bold mountaineers, but there are no old, bold mountaineers." Regardless of us identifying with, sympathizing with, and mourning her tragic accident, in the final analysis, she made bad decisions. I just don't see how her decision process, that of climbing alone and continuing on into deteriorating weather conditions, can be objectively defended as good decision making and blaming bad luck alone on the outcome.

The second comment you made, "I’ve climbed Mt. Washington solo in February and consider myself very luck to have not died. [sic]" Then bluntly, you also made bad decisions, because when survival comes down to luck, you are out of control of the situation. Go to the well one too many times and good luck almost always runs out. And while some may disagree, I believe that anyone who leaves a trail head (or doesn't turn back) relying on luck and/or hope to even in a small way help them make it back alive, needs to reevaluate their plan and undertaking.

Some are of the mind that incidents such as this one simply shouldn't be discussed. But for the same reasons that physicians have morbidity and mortality reviews, and pilots discuss air crashes, people who hike and climb in these mountains discuss events that touch upon what they do. Such discussions tend to be objective and unemotional - what went wrong that produced the bad outcome. Like it or not, it's how we learn what to do, and what not to do, where the process went wrong, etc., so that we don't make similar mistakes.

I sympathize for her, her family, and friends. Let's hope that others can learn from her tragic death.

If we humans never took risk and never wished for some luck we would have never traveled to the moon, climbed Mt. Everest, K2 etc. We train and plan our trips whatever they may be. Accidents happen regardless of how much we train and how much we plan. Perhaps you and I would have made different decisions and choices.
From what I gather she made her decisions based on her knowledge and her skills. I believe that she thought that she could make it.

Speaking of skills, I am reminded of the time that so many people died on Mt. Everest. Some of those climbers were the best prepared best trained climbers in the world.
They rely on their knowledge, training, experience and skills. Somehow I think Kate may have done the same.
Gob bless and rest in peace.

[iAmKrzys]

I'm wondering as to what degree blowing snow, "flat light" in the afternoon, goggle icing, etc. and other factors may have played into poor visibility further slowing her progress along with the wind. Add in blowing snow/rime ice making it difficult to determine "the path", and find or read any signs at trail intersections.

According to Boston Globe article she had a gps with her and there was nothing that would indicate that her gps didn't work. Hence even if she didn't have good maps on it and visibility was poor she could still follow her own traces in reverse order - I have done it lots of times when geocaching off trail. This is however assuming that she could actually see the screen of her gps, so if her goggles iced up that would not work. I remember one time skiing at Wildcat on a cold day and I lifted up my goggles for a few seconds. My breath instantly froze up on the inside and I had to take them off on the way down.

[Neal]

Here's a thoughtful piece from a member of the rescue team that found her:

https://erikthatcherclimbs.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/take-away-lesson-and-questions-unanswered-from-kate-matrosovas-passing/

[FlyFishNut]

That is a nice, well written piece and kind to the deceased. I don't think anyone here has a motive to pile on this poor woman for her decisions, but at the same time mistakes were made costing her life.

I'm reminded of one of my favorite short stories by Jack London, "To Build a Fire". I'm sure most of you have read it (I reread it once very year or so). It shows how unforgiving Mother Nature can be and how thin the margin for error is in the brutal cold.

Most of you are way more experienced hikers than I am; my pursuits have taken me mostly to the ocean and some to the desert and many more the mountains and piedmont of the Carolinas, just not always with a pack on my back. All of these climes have doses of an unforgiving Mother Nature, just in different forms.

We will never know what this woman's thought process was and while we can use conjecture, the bottom line is she pushed the envelope way beyond what I (and I would guess YOU) would ever do.

It's great that we have dialogue about this so when any of "us" are on the brink of making an overly risky decision we might remember what happened to this trekker, and pause to recalculate.

The analogy I think of when I read that she was not carrying a bivy or bag to weather out a night in this area well known for brutal wind and cold is like going on the open ocean without a PFD (Personal Floatation Device). Am I off base with that analogy? Would a climber's bivy and overnight provisions not be comparable to a sailor's PFD?

I've been chastised by some friends or acquaintances for some of the "risks" I've taken either backpacking in cold/snow, or running a 18' skiff up and down the beaches in snotty oceans, soaked by chilly seas in November, etc. Most of these criticisms come over a cocktail from some out-of-shape couch potato who calls me "Crazy" or asked, "why would you do that?". These folks are not cut from the same cloth as the folks that post here and so their threshold of risk taking is vastly different.

The bottom line is we partake in some adventurous activities, but we (consciously or unconsciously) calculate the risks involved and have a plan "B" or "turnaround time" in our minds.

I guess the take-away here is not to judge or berate this woman or her decisions, but not to ignore the lessons to be learned from this tragedy.

My two cents...

[The Solemates]

Here's a thoughtful piece from a member of the rescue team that found her:

https://erikthatcherclimbs.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/take-away-lesson-and-questions-unanswered-from-kate-matrosovas-passing/

wow. look at these guys getting blow all over the place in the first 25 seconds of the video.

[Mags]

I think a thoughtful and respectful analysis of the incident with what may have been mistakes is only helpful. Heck, a very well known book about accidents in the Whites was written (and updated in 2009) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1934028320/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687522&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1929173067&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0KF2A1NCP019FQ90HANR) more or less covering this subject.


Some of the comments were asinine..sure. But equally asinine, IMO, are people who think it is somehow disrespectful to talk about or even point out the mistakes people may have made.

[Praha4]

Accidents happen, even with the most experienced and well equipped hikers and climbers. Personally I feel very bad for Kate and her friends and family, cannot imagine what they are going through. I appreciate the posts here from the experienced hikers from that area, I've learned a lot about winter hiking in the Whites from this thread, maybe the lessons from this tragedy will save someone else's life in future.

[peakbagger]

I have an Adams hike booked this upcoming weekend. I may take the same route, although we will probably tag Madison after we do Adams. Will this discussion change the gear I carry, not really. Will it change my approach, no. Will I carry all the gear that has been discussed to survive brutal overnight weather, probably not. My plan is to check the weather Friday night and recheck it Saturday AM. If the weather forecast changes I will shift days or postpone. If I get to Madison Hut and the weather goes bad, I turn around walk 100 feet and go back down Valley Way which is sheltered. It took me three tries to do Adams in winter the first time around and it will be there next weekend. Sure I would like to get up there on a sunny day with no wind and 100 mile visibility. I really don't need to go up there with zero vis and wind, I have been there in somewhat nasty conditions (no where near the conditions on the day of the accident) and don't need to do it again. I admit I am a fair weather hiker, I generally have the skills, the equipment but not the motivation to screw around in borderline conditions. Sure there is an adrenalin rush getting blown around in dangerous conditions but I don't need it. If I desire to get the rush, I can sign up for a overnight on Mt Washington in winter and go play around on the deck. I expect when hiking up I will encounter folks with far less gear and experience and I hope they make it down but ultimately its their call and if I can help them and they want the help I will help. I have bought a NH hike safe card and realize that its not a guaranteed rescue card. I realize that the riskiest aspect of the hike is driving to the trailhead even in winter.

Someone else has a full presidential traverse booked on Sunday which is roughly twice as long as the hikers intended route. I hope they do the same things as I and end up with no more than sore legs and a sunburn.

[Feral Bill]

Someone else has a full presidential traverse booked on Sunday which is roughly twice as long as the hikers intended route. I hope they do the same things as I and end up with no more than sore legs and a sunburn.
I'm confident we all share that hope.

[Slo-go'en]

When conditions are good you don't need too much in the way of alpine gear to summit. But when conditions aren't good the best gear in the world won't save you. The trick is knowing when and where to bail.

The forecast for this weekend looks decent. It might even be reasonably warm. Or at least not insanely cold.

[egilbe]

When conditions are good you don't need too much in the way of alpine gear to summit. But when conditions aren't good the best gear in the world won't save you. The trick is knowing when and where to bail.

The forecast for this weekend looks decent. It might even be reasonably warm. Or at least not insanely cold.

Mt Washington forecast. Not as bad as that ​weekend, but still pretty chilly. At least give yourself the choice to bailout if you need to.




TonightClear, with a low around -14. Wind chill values as low as -44. Very windy, with a northwest wind 30 to 40 mph.

SaturdaySunny and cold, with a high near 2. Wind chill values as low as -45. Windy, with a west wind 30 to 35 mph, with gusts as high as 45 mph.

Saturday NightMostly clear, with a low around -5. Wind chill values as low as -30. Very windy, with a west wind 30 to 40 mph.

[Slo-go'en]

Mt Washington forecast. Not as bad as that ​weekend, but still pretty chilly. At least give yourself the choice to bailout if you need to.




Tonight
Clear, with a low around -14. Wind chill values as low as -44. Very windy, with a northwest wind 30 to 40 mph.

Saturday
Sunny and cold, with a high near 2. Wind chill values as low as -45. Windy, with a west wind 30 to 35 mph, with gusts as high as 45 mph.

Saturday Night
Mostly clear, with a low around -5. Wind chill values as low as -30. Very windy, with a west wind 30 to 40 mph.



Yea, not as warm as I thought and those modest 30 mph winds are enough to kick you around some. With the wind out of the west, it's in your face going SOBO for a traverse, which is normal. A storm is moving in for Sunday night, so that will affect things up there all day Sunday too. It doesn't take much to put the summits into the clouds. I think I'll wait another week or two before heading up there myself. I didn't get above tree line all last winter, so I'd like to at least poke my nose up there once this winter.

[egilbe]

I think I'm going to hike this tiny 1700 footer near my house and look at Presidential Range from a distance.

[squeezebox]

Always give yourself room to bail out. Whether it's super winter or super summer. Freezing or heat stroke you have to know what to do. Not to mention being blown around and breaking a leg or such. She sounds like she was an incredible woman, I'm sorry she is gone. Not just her loss, but ours as well.

[psyculman]

Yea, not as warm as I thought and those modest 30 mph winds are enough to kick you around some. With the wind out of the west, it's in your face going SOBO for a traverse, which is normal. A storm is moving in for Sunday night, so that will affect things up there all day Sunday too. It doesn't take much to put the summits into the clouds. I think I'll wait another week or two before heading up there myself. I didn't get above tree line all last winter, so I'd like to at least poke my nose up there once this winter.

I go up to Crag Camp every January. Our group usually tries to summit Adams. This year, we went up on Fri. Jan. 30. The snow was the deepest we have experienced, and the temp. the coldest. Fortunately, the younger 3 of the group broke trail all the way. We stayed at Grey Knob instead. We decided not to attempt the summit, it was near 0, with a considerable wind. Looking from the Quay up to the peak of Adams, it did not seem wise to go up into that. It was crystal clear, but ground level blowing snow looked treacherous.

[peakbagger]

I actually postponed my hike to Sunday based on the forecast and worse case will take a walk up to the hut and hope the forecast was too conservative.

[Traveler]

I think a thoughtful and respectful analysis of the incident with what may have been mistakes is only helpful. Heck, a very well known book about accidents in the Whites was written (and updated in 2009) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1934028320/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687522&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1929173067&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0KF2A1NCP019FQ90HANR) more or less covering this subject.


Some of the comments were asinine..sure. But equally asinine, IMO, are people who think it is somehow disrespectful to talk about or even point out the mistakes people may have made.

Agreed. Aviation has a high level of forensic detail to incidents like these. The investigations look at the cause and contributing factors in any incident involving aircraft damage, in-flight emergency, or injury/loss of life. Pilots learn a lot from this unemotional look at incidents. Without this level of clarity, aviation would continue to have similar accidents. Perhaps a close comparison to this incident in the Whites was the JFK Jr. crash off of Martha's Vineyard in July 1999. Taken individually, none of the facets of that flight would have resulted in a problem, collectively it killed three. Similar events took place with this woman.

If we take an unemotional look at these issues, we as a community can learn a lot. You can claim JFK Jr was doing something he loved and died the romantic death, though the reality of that is much different. Same holds true for this woman and her death. It's difficult to make a true assessment of the facts when the facts are not fully known, however it is pretty clear that much as JFK Jr opted to take a flight he had skills for under normal conditions, his physical condition was likely a contributing factor (leg injury), along with the decision of continued flight into instrument meteorological conditions he did not have a level of experience for.

I suspect a similar cause here. A hiker with some serious big mountain experience and self conviction they could make the intended trek in unfamiliar mountains that are notorious for being dangerous. Even though she may have been properly geared/provisioned for the effort, there is the likelihood she experienced several "tells" that forged the chain of what led to her death. This could have been deep snow that hampered her movement, high winds that would have blown her over or caused her to change how she moved into it, or not reaching a mile marker at the planned time (indicating she was far slower than planned). Much as many pilots do, I use the "three strikes" rule to make the turn around decision. Once the third issue pops up that is unplanned for, its time to reverse course in terrain like the Whites. Clearly something made her finally come to that decision and she did turn around, but too late to save herself.

I agree with Mags, unless we look at the forensics of things like this we don't learn anything. We also deny Kate her legacy to the hiking community in the cautionary tale she writes in her death, which can potentially save many others.

[Feral Bill]

All who are taking an interest in this have an emotional component. We have our own experiences, fears, biases, and personalities in play. Putting aside our emotions is very difficult. I suggest we do our best and all understand that sometimes we fail to do so. If we can't be totally rational, we can certainly remain civil. and perhaps prevent some tragedy in the future.

[peakbagger]

I was up Adam today 3/01. The snow is just about perfect with a well trod route to the top. Wind as usual a Madison Col but obviously more NW wind on the other side of the ridge. The Mt Washington Obs forecast for today changed substantially from NW winds dropping and shifting to SE to NW wind all day increasing with steadily increasing could cover. We took Star Lake trail to stay out of the wind. I actually wussed out about 15 minutes from the summit just before getting in the wind but the person I was hiking with did summit. Someone had been across Star Lake trail in the last day or so but it was 2/3rd hard crust with occasional rock fields up top, there are few cairns and much of the lower terrain is covered with steep snow fields that must be crossed I ascended with MSR Denalis that have very good side traction but came back with Hillsound microspikes, they were real marginal and the run out down the slope is long and ends up in boulders a misstep would be painfull at the least and possibly causing an injury. The ever popular Kahtoolas would be even dicier. If I had an ice ax I would have used it . I would not want to traverse this in poor visibility and snow. It is quite remarkable that the hiker made it up Adams and back via this route in poor visibility with gusting winds. They are between Star Lake and hut is quite windy with a sight rise up slope downwind with a fairly obvious boulder line downslope. I would guess this is the area where the hiker was found.

Lots of folks out this weekend. I did encounter two folks who apparently are immune from winter conditions. They had only the clothes on their back and hydration pouches. They were in shape but I guess they decided that if they got in trouble that others would supply them whatever gear they needed.

[iAmKrzys]

Aviation has a high level of forensic detail to incidents like these. The investigations look at the cause and contributing factors in any incident involving aircraft damage, in-flight emergency, or injury/loss of life. Pilots learn a lot from this unemotional look at incidents. Without this level of clarity, aviation would continue to have similar accidents.

While there is a tradition, if not a mandate, to release detailed aviation accident reports so that these accidents can be studied and re-examined, I am not sure if we will get to see all important details related to this accidents.

I hope I am wrong on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final report included a summary of Kate's traveled path but excluded detailed gps traces with locations & timestamps, so we will have to trust that we would arrive at similar conclusions when looking at these traces as New Hampshire Fish and Game will.

Separately, I wonder if Kate's PLB model will be named in the report? This event certainly won't make that PLB look good and most likely its future sales would drop. Yet I think quite a chunk of PLB industry is getting a free ride, as many of the units that don't provide tracking cannot be meaningfully tested in a variety of terrain and conditions (e.g. extreme cold) where many real life-threatening emergencies arise. When you read Amazon reviews there are many folks who are very happy because their PLB gives them a peace of mind and it has lots of bells and whistles, but none of them can attest to the accuracy of location reported by their unit. Personally, I just wouldn't trust marketing materials so much especially if my life could be at risk.

[canoe]

While there is a tradition, if not a mandate, to release detailed aviation accident reports so that these accidents can be studied and re-examined, I am not sure if we will get to see all important details related to this accidents.

I hope I am wrong on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final report included a summary of Kate's traveled path but excluded detailed gps traces with locations & timestamps, so we will have to trust that we would arrive at similar conclusions when looking at these traces as New Hampshire Fish and Game will.

Separately, I wonder if Kate's PLB model will be named in the report? This event certainly won't make that PLB look good and most likely its future sales would drop. Yet I think quite a chunk of PLB industry is getting a free ride, as many of the units that don't provide tracking cannot be meaningfully tested in a variety of terrain and conditions (e.g. extreme cold) where many real life-threatening emergencies arise. When you read Amazon reviews there are many folks who are very happy because their PLB gives them a peace of mind and it has lots of bells and whistles, but none of them can attest to the accuracy of location reported by their unit. Personally, I just wouldn't trust marketing materials so much especially if my life could be at risk.
It is my understanding that the conditions were worse than the PLB technical parameters

[iAmKrzys]

It is my understanding that the conditions were worse than the PLB technical parameters

Indeed, I saw a report that the unit was rated to -20F while the temperatures supposedly were lower than this. Nevertheless, some of the transmissions went through, and so one may wonder what really was the cause of inaccurate readings? I'm guessing that listening to satellite signals to acquire a gps fix takes less energy than transmitting that reading back to overpassing satellite but I could very well be wrong on this. Or maybe the location was determined in some way without use of gps? Were less accurate readings really due to low temperature, or maybe some other limitation in unit capabilities? If this model can be successfully tested within its rated temperature range then it would be really hard to blame the manufacturer, however, if there is no way to test then how does one know for sure that the model is reliable within its specs?

[Driver8]

Indeed, I saw a report that the unit was rated to -20F while the temperatures supposedly were lower than this. Nevertheless, some of the transmissions went through, and so one may wonder what really was the cause of inaccurate readings? I'm guessing that listening to satellite signals to acquire a gps fix takes less energy than transmitting that reading back to overpassing satellite but I could very well be wrong on this. Or maybe the location was determined in some way without use of gps? Were less accurate readings really due to low temperature, or maybe some other limitation in unit capabilities? If this model can be successfully tested within its rated temperature range then it would be really hard to blame the manufacturer, however, if there is no way to test then how does one know for sure that the model is reliable within its specs?

If you get a chance to read through all of this thread and some of the linked articles, there's discussion of possible factors contributing to the PLB's inaccurate reporting - cold temps being one, echoing off the mountainous terrain being another. FYI.

[Neal]

I was up Adam today 3/01. The snow is just about perfect with a well trod route to the top. Wind as usual a Madison Col but obviously more NW wind on the other side of the ridge. The Mt Washington Obs forecast for today changed substantially from NW winds dropping and shifting to SE to NW wind all day increasing with steadily increasing could cover. We took Star Lake trail to stay out of the wind. I actually wussed out about 15 minutes from the summit just before getting in the wind but the person I was hiking with did summit. Someone had been across Star Lake trail in the last day or so but it was 2/3rd hard crust with occasional rock fields up top, there are few cairns and much of the lower terrain is covered with steep snow fields that must be crossed I ascended with MSR Denalis that have very good side traction but came back with Hillsound microspikes, they were real marginal and the run out down the slope is long and ends up in boulders a misstep would be painfull at the least and possibly causing an injury. The ever popular Kahtoolas would be even dicier. If I had an ice ax I would have used it . I would not want to traverse this in poor visibility and snow. It is quite remarkable that the hiker made it up Adams and back via this route in poor visibility with gusting winds. They are between Star Lake and hut is quite windy with a sight rise up slope downwind with a fairly obvious boulder line downslope. I would guess this is the area where the hiker was found.

Lots of folks out this weekend. I did encounter two folks who apparently are immune from winter conditions. They had only the clothes on their back and hydration pouches. They were in shape but I guess they decided that if they got in trouble that others would supply them whatever gear they needed.

were the temps/winds on Adams comparable to Washington this weekend?

[peakbagger]

The temps on Adams generally are quite close to Washington especially with westerly winds, when I looked at the OBS this AM is looked like 5 degrees and 30 to 40 MPH sustained winds. There was some wind driven snow plus high clouds that obscured the sun but on Star Lake trail in few spots it got hot quick when the sun brightened. Given the wind direction, our route up Valley Way and then Star Lake trail is the most sheltered approach until the last 100 yards or so. As the winds shift south, Airline trail starts to get shelter but its rare that Star Lake has wind except when the wind shifts SE which is generally rarer as the prevailing winds are usually west/NW.

[iAmKrzys]

There is a new article about Kate Matrosova: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-trader-in-the-wild/ According to the article she had ACR ResQLink.

[Praha4]

Thanks for sharing...every time I read about her and this tragedy I'm filled with sadness. That was the best article I've seen that shared more about her and her life and family. An amazing life cut short too soon.

[egilbe]

Thanks for sharing...every time I read about her and this tragedy I'm filled with sadness. That was the best article I've seen that shared more about her and her life and family. An amazing life cut short too soon.

Hard to argue with the facts. She should not have been on that mountain in that weather. Alone.
"the cretinous comments calling her an arrogant blonde banker who deserved the Darwin Award for removing herself from the gene pool."

[Offshore]

The fact that she had so much experience really makes this a matter of poor judgement, not ignorance. Given her job as a credit derivative trader, she was probably well-versed in evaluating risk. It seems to be a tragic case of a high-achieving type-A personality who probably had little concept of personal failure. The danger of the situation may have never occurred to her until it was too late.

[colorado_rob]

Thanks for sharing...every time I read about her and this tragedy I'm filled with sadness. That was the best article I've seen that shared more about her and her life and family. An amazing life cut short too soon. Yeah, agree, thanks for sharing.


The fact that she had so much experience really makes this a matter of poor judgement, not ignorance.Yeah, also agree, just a bad call made by a very competent adventurist. I've made a few myself, just got lucky so far.

[Neal]

There is a new article about Kate Matrosova: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-trader-in-the-wild/ According to the article she had ACR ResQLink.

Thanks for posting that! Just ran across it at Bloomberg and was checking if it had been linked here. Interesting that she had done this hike a month earlier...so not her first time in the Presidentials contrary to what NH F and G officials had stated.

[4eyedbuzzard]

. . . I wonder if Kate's PLB model will be named in the report? This event certainly won't make that PLB look good and most likely its future sales would drop. Yet I think quite a chunk of PLB industry is getting a free ride, as many of the units that don't provide tracking cannot be meaningfully tested in a variety of terrain and conditions (e.g. extreme cold) where many real life-threatening emergencies arise. When you read Amazon reviews there are many folks who are very happy because their PLB gives them a peace of mind and it has lots of bells and whistles, but none of them can attest to the accuracy of location reported by their unit. Personally, I just wouldn't trust marketing materials so much especially if my life could be at risk.From the latest article, ". . .And she had a gizmo Farhoodi had bought and insisted she take even though she couldn’t imagine using it and thought it was a waste of money—an ACR *ResQLink *personal locator beacon (PLB), which Farhoodi had registered with the federal authorities that monitor all personal locator beacons in the U.S."

She was an interesting young person. So much promise. It's a sad incident. And I understand the need to put a positive note on her life due to her otherwise tragic death. But what kills me is that her death was also so clearly preventable - by training, experience, and indeed, a bit of humility. As with many accidents of this type, there wasn't just one single bad decision that led to her death - there was a chain of bad decisions: Not respecting forecast conditions, not anticipating that those conditions could materialize sooner than forecast, then continuing to climb into deteriorating conditions that were forecast to be basically deadly, climbing alone, over-estimating her capabilities, and perhaps even outright arrogance. She had some recent, and enviable, mountaineering experience - but then again, she was hardly an expert by any definition, and her climbs were mostly of the sort where a lot of the critical decisions would have been made for her, by others with more experience.

I can't think of anyone I know who would have ventured up there that day - except to risk their own life to attempt a rescue.

"There are old mountaineers and there are bold mountaineers. But there are no old, bold mountaineers."

RIP Kate

[Another Kevin]

From the latest article, ". . .And she had a gizmo Farhoodi had bought and insisted she take even though she couldn’t imagine using it and thought it was a waste of money—an ACR *ResQLink *personal locator beacon (PLB), which Farhoodi had registered with the federal authorities that monitor all personal locator beacons in the U.S."

She was an interesting young person. So much promise. It's a sad incident. And I understand the need to put a positive note on her life due to her otherwise tragic death. But what kills me is that her death was also so clearly preventable - by training, experience, and indeed, a bit of humility. As with many accidents of this type, there wasn't just one single bad decision that led to her death - there was a chain of bad decisions: Not respecting forecast conditions, not anticipating that those conditions could materialize sooner than forecast, then continuing to climb into deteriorating conditions that were forecast to be basically deadly, climbing alone, over-estimating her capabilities, and perhaps even outright arrogance. She had some recent, and enviable, mountaineering experience - but then again, she was hardly an expert by any definition, and her climbs were mostly of the sort where a lot of the critical decisions would have been made for her, by others with more experience.

I can't think of anyone I know who would have ventured up there that day - except to risk their own life to attempt a rescue.

"There are old mountaineers and there are bold mountaineers. But there are no old, bold mountaineers."

I've gone over many times my reasons for carrying a PLB (http://dftscript.blogspot.com/2012/07/originally-posted-at-httpwww.html). I don't believe that it makes me reckless.

What hiker with any amount of experience hasn't gone beyond their ability into a potentially deadly situation? I know I've made potentially lethal mistakes from time to time, and no doubt I've made more that I'm not even aware of.

But ... yeah. I don't think I've ever done anything close to that monumentally ill-considered a collection of things ... and I have led trips to Northeast 4k's in deep winter. One mistake is very rarely deadly, but oh, dear Lord, she made a lot of them. Still, something in the back of my mind says, "that could have been me, on a bad day."

And yes, what makes you a mountaineer isn't the mountains you've climbed, it's the ones you've wisely turned back from.

[colorado_rob]

Well, she was maybe not an expert, but where does it say that she used guide on Elbrus, Aconcagua and Denali? I didn't when I climbed them, I doubt she did either and it sure sounds like she was well on her way.

And calling this poor, dear lass, or at least her deeds "Monumentally stupid" is very disrespectful. Let her rest in peace.

And finally, there are PLENTY of old, bold mountaineers. If there were no bold mountaineers, well, I suppose not many challenging mountains would be climbed, eh? Enjoy watching your TV.

[egilbe]

And calling this poor, dear lass, or at least her deeds "Monumentally stupid" is very disrespectful. Let her rest in peace.

And finally, there are PLENTY of old, bold mountaineers. If there were no bold mountaineers, well, I suppose not many challenging mountains would be climbed, eh? Enjoy watching your TV.

What else would you call it if not stupid? For someone to make a living balancing risk vs reward and then do something so life-threatening, where more experienced hikers and climbers would have turned back, boggles my mind. Its not disrespectful if we all learn something from this entirely preventable tragedy. The only way she would have lived that day is to stay in the car. She was doomed as soon as she left it.