View Full Version : Who's the chaeapest hiker out there?
The guy/gal who never put in any money at the hostels with suggested "donations"!
Lone Wolf
11-01-2005, 19:23
Hard sayin. Those Aholes are hard to catch and they don't admit to not payin.
TJ aka Teej
11-01-2005, 19:47
I know a lot of cheap hikers - but none would ever stiff a service provider.
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2005, 19:55
Sure they would, Teej. Miss Janet and Bob Peoples get stiffed all the time. (In Janet's case, its people that stay for three or four days and pay for one or two; in Bob's case, it's folks who see that it's a "By Donation Only " hostel so they assume that means it's free. In both cases, it's people who accept long rides or slacks and don't offer a cent in payment).
There are a lot more people out there like this than you think.
justusryans
11-01-2005, 19:59
The guy/gal who never put in any money at the hostels with suggested "donations"!
Cheap or thrifty?
totempole99
11-01-2005, 20:14
Cheap or thrifty?
No, thrifty is being frugal; not buying a beer in town, not going out to eat in town but preparing your own, etc. Being wise (or thrifty as you say) in your spending doesn't mean spending as little as possible (as in stiffing).
betic4lyf
11-01-2005, 20:15
i am thrifty like a mofo, but i dont stiff people
Sure they would, Teej. Miss Janet and Bob Peoples get stiffed all the time. (In Janet's case, its people that stay for three or four days and pay for one or two; in Bob's case, it's folks who see that it's a "By Donation Only " hostel so they assume that means it's free. In both cases, it's people who accept long rides or slacks and don't offer a cent in payment). There are a lot more people out there like this than you think.
Yeah, I agree. But once when I was at Clingman;s Dome, I watched Margery and Earle of The Cabin lend a hiker $40 to continue his hike. Believe me, neither of these folks are even remotely wealthy. They just gambled and to my surprise the money came back, a few months later.
Though the Cabin has set fees, over the years many have been accomodated on the promise that the money will be sent to them eventually. As near as I can tell, they are pleased by the number that have actually done so.
I'll query them further on this point when I go up there for Thanksgiving. But I doubt if their experience has changed dramatically in the 11 years The Cabin has been open.
Weary
cheap skates suck,a lot of hikers have also taken advantage of rusty also
it all boils down to being selfish:cool: neo
You can read what Bob Peoples has to say about donations at his hostel on PG 22 of this PDF from the ATC OK?
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/ATN03May.pdf
smokymtnsteve
11-01-2005, 21:11
Sure they would, Teej. Miss Janet and Bob Peoples get stiffed all the time. (In Janet's case, its people that stay for three or four days and pay for one or two; in Bob's case, it's folks who see that it's a "By Donation Only " hostel so they assume that means it's free. In both cases, it's people who accept long rides or slacks and don't offer a cent in payment).
There are a lot more people out there like this than you think.
kinda liek a ride from gatlinburg to newfound gap say in 2003??
business/hostel owners are responsible for "inventory control" , perhaps a better systems of registuring would prevent these and other problems....
UJ never has folks skip out on him,,,course he runs a tight ship and doesn't tolerate hanging around and such. as U well know.
Blue Jay
11-01-2005, 21:41
Hard sayin. Those Aholes are hard to catch and they don't admit to not payin.
This is exactly why responsible hikers should pay double if they can. To at least start to make up for the holes.
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2005, 21:41
"and doesn't tolerate hanging around and such as U well know..."
I have no idea of what you're talking about, Steve.
I don't really know much about Uncle Johnny's these days, Steve, as I haven't set foot on the property since the spring of 2001, and certainly haven't been "hanging around" there.
So I really don't know much about his policies there.
But if you're implying, as you have before, that I was ever "run off" from there, asked to leave, or was thrown out of the establishment, this is all categorically untrue. I repeat, categotically untrue. If you were told this by anyone, you were lied to. If you are merely spreading this on your own, then it you who are spreading falsehoods.
In any case, I wish you'd cut it out, it's getting old.
smokymtnsteve
11-01-2005, 21:43
This is exactly why responsible hikers should pay double if they can. To at least start to make up for the holes.
maybe u should chip in to a WAL MART shoplfting account...oh wait walmart shoppers who pay already do.
this should be selfish hikers instead of cheap hikers,some people are takers
they take advantage of others kindness,i am a person that tries to share with others:cool: neo
I think its awful that anyone would take advantage of any of the hostels :mad:
There is definitely a difference in being a leech and being frugal. You can do things cheaply without imposing yourself on anyone else.
I think its awful that anyone would take advantage of any of the hostels :mad: There is definitely a difference in being a leech and being frugal. You can do things cheaply without imposing yourself on anyone else.
Well, I certainly agree. I've lived since 1991 essentially on Social Security plus 50%. My wife and I still manage to contribute several thousand dollars a year to trail and church projects. When I hear folks claiming they can't contribute, I think to myself they must be wasting their money.
WEary
I think its awful that anyone would take advantage of any of the hostels :mad:
There is definitely a difference in being a leech and being frugal. You can do things cheaply without imposing yourself on anyone else.
you are 100 % correct,thrifty and selfish are a big difference:cool: neo
tiamalle
11-01-2005, 23:49
Some how I think there is different meanings for this word (cheap)Some ofyou are discribing bums,thieves,lyers,which are worms,trash,rats,and buzzards you find 2% of hikers which is a low percent compared to other walks of life.When I was a child I was tought "when you grow corn,plant an extra poundof seeds per acre",because there will be worms in the ears.crows for the seeds.thieves in the neighborhoods and rats in the cribs.I pay,I help,I donatebut I know I'm the cheapest hiker out there.ever bit of my gear inc boots andclothes,pack and poles ain't worth $20.00 bucks if I find a fool but I have agreat time:aman
smokymtnsteve
11-01-2005, 23:54
"and doesn't tolerate hanging around and such as U well know..."
I have no idea of what you're talking about, Steve.
I don't really know much about Uncle Johnny's these days, Steve, as I haven't set foot on the property since the spring of 2001, and certainly haven't been "hanging around" there.
So I really don't know much about his policies there.
But if you're implying, as you have before, that I was ever "run off" from there, asked to leave, or was thrown out of the establishment, this is all categorically untrue. I repeat, categotically untrue. If you were told this by anyone, you were lied to. If you are merely spreading this on your own, then it you who are spreading falsehoods.
In any case, I wish you'd cut it out, it's getting old.
of course U haven't been hanging around there Bj ,,UJ doesn't allow that. And U KNOW IT!
categotically....would U repeat that?
You can read what Bob Peoples has to say about donations at his hostel on PG 22 of this PDF from the ATC OK?
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/ATN03May.pdf
Bob and the Kincora Hostel are special, unlike any others on the AT. Anyone that's stayed there are very fortunate. It's not about money.
Jack Tarlin
11-02-2005, 00:03
If you REALLY want me to go into details about why I no longer patronize your friend's establishment, Steve, I'll happily provide them, but even you're bright enough----maybe---to realize that you really don't want me to do that because you're smart enough to realize---maybe---that rehashing all of this stuff can't possibly do him or his place any good.
If you were really such a good friend of his, you'd do best to let this one go.
smokymtnsteve
11-02-2005, 00:06
U really HATE him don't U BJ??
I heard U were really "lit" that night.
smokymtnsteve
11-02-2005, 00:07
well it's -5 F, I gotta go ford a river :cool:
Jack Tarlin
11-02-2005, 00:25
What I really hate, Steve, are your witless posts.
What night are you refering to, Steve? Please tell us.
And above, I mentioned that you were too bright to want to pursue this matter.
I was obviously mistaken.
The reason I made the entirely voluntary reason to stop patronizing this place was because I didn't like the way it was run. There had been a lengthy history of complaints in re. to this establishment from the week it opened; for sometime, in fact for several years, I ignored these complaints or downplayed their significance. It wasn't til the spring of 2001 that I witnessed things personally that made me realize I no longer wanted to patronize the establishment or spend time there. So I left. During the day, I might add. I had Miss Janet shuttle me to Bob People's place in Hampton, TN, where I stayed for sometime, nursing an injury that proved to be a cracked ankle.
Anyway, Steve, this is how I came to leave Uncle Johnny's. It wasn't at night, as you say. And I wasn't lit when I left. And it wasn't after a "scene." And I wasn't thrown out or asked to leave; this was entirely a decision I came to on my own. If you've been told otherwise, you have been mis-informed. If you're merely saying this on your own, then you're nothing more than a bald-faced liar.
I left UJ's and haven't set foot at the place because I didn't like the way it was run. Period. I could certainly provide details as to why I made this decision, and I could certainly provide details of some of the things I witnessed there that helped make me reach this decision, but I REALLY don't think you want me to do this. Even you aren't that stupid, tho then again....
But mainly, I'm not going into this because the whole Uncle Johnny thing has been done to death. People are sick of it, and if you want to hi-jack a thread about hostels and where they are located, that's fine, but I want no part of it. This happens all too often here at Whiteblaze. Someone asked a personally sensible questin about where hostels are located, and instead of helping out the questioner with anything useful or noteworthy, you instead take another opportunity to make snide, unsubstantiated, and patently false insinuations about me.
Please make an attempt to grow up, eh? Or if you feel the need to say these things about me, please wait til the next time you see me in person, instead of from several thousand miles away.
Bye, now.
Someone asked a personally sensible questin about where hostels are located, and instead of helping out the questioner with anything useful or noteworthy, you instead take another opportunity to make snide, unsubstantiated, and patently false insinuations about me.
Actually, the thread's about cheap hikers. I guess when someone has a gripe about paying for a cup of coffee, they could be considered one.
Jack Tarlin
11-02-2005, 00:33
Damn, Sly, you're right!! I''ve visited too many threads tonight.
But in any case, the thread is NOT about Uncle Johnny's, and I really don't think people wanna rehash all of that nonsense again. If Steve wants to go down that road, fine, but he'll have to do it without me. Like just about everyone here, I simply have no interest in this tired old bull****.
Like just about everyone here, I simply have no interest in this tired old bull****.
Of course you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be posting so profusely. Not to worry Jack, atleast you have the "spine" to defend yourself.
Have a good night...
The guy/gal who never put in any money at the hostels with suggested "donations"!
That's not being cheap or thrifty. That's theft of services.
UJ has Never been stiffed? I find that hard to believe. From my porch, what I've found is 95% give the requested donation, no matter how good the value. 2% need reminding and 3% are generous. I'm sure somewhere out there is a true story of bJack not being a saint but from what I've seen he's a 3%er. Some just think donation = optional.
I remember back in AT9 folks sayin that Dufflebag Tim did the trail on a quarter! Then again I've heard I've got oil money yet to cheap to buy new gear. Truth is I'd keep my old gear even if I did have money:)
fiddlehead
11-02-2005, 08:52
Lazee, who runs the Eckville shelter had his donation can (for the drinks in the frig) robbed twice! (that i know of)
THAT'S pretty low.
SGT Rock
11-02-2005, 08:53
Nean, I didn't know you have a hostel. Where is it and what is it called?
I don't have a hostel SGT Rock. I live near the trail north of Hot Springs. We have 2 cabins and the guest cabin, which Mountain Dew dubbed the lean, mean, nean shack- has had its visitors. We don't always care for company though and only a few when we do. Mostly I just visit with hikers, do a little magic and provide the occasional slack. There goes a hiker now...
max patch
11-02-2005, 09:58
I remember back in AT9 folks sayin that Dufflebag Tim did the trail on a quarter!
Now theres a name I haven't heard about in a looong time. I remember meeting DT at Watuga Lake; he had 2 dufflebags tied together instead of a pack. And then the next day I met Harry the Indian. And then a couple of days later my tent was stolen while pitched at "the friendliest town on the trail".) A week to remember.
I haven't stayed at a hostel or used a shuttle. I'm very inexperienced in the world of hiking. But wouldn't common sense dictate that if people are going to get uppity when they don't get the "suggested donation", perhaps they should make it a simple fee?
I will however note that the folks making the comments here don't seem to be hostel owners.
Almost There
11-02-2005, 10:10
This is exactly why responsible hikers should pay double if they can. To at least start to make up for the holes. Responsible hikers should pay "their own share". This would be like saying some don't pay their share of taxes, so those of us who are responsible Americans should pick up the slack and pay more. Nonsense, pay the suggested donation and if you have a particularly good time or feel like giving more, then do, it's your call. You don't have to tip at a restaurant, but you do depending on your experience. Regardless, you still must pay for your food.
Lone Wolf
11-02-2005, 10:12
Folks that don't pay thier share of taxes around here make up for it by buying shtloads of lottery tickets. Fools.:D
Dances with Mice
11-02-2005, 10:46
Folks that don't pay thier share of taxes around here make up for it by buying shtloads of lottery tickets. Fools.:DLotteries are a tax on those who don't understand math.
SGT Rock
11-02-2005, 11:02
I don't have a hostel SGT Rock. I live near the trail north of Hot Springs. We have 2 cabins and the guest cabin, which Mountain Dew dubbed the lean, mean, nean shack- has had its visitors. We don't always care for company though and only a few when we do. Mostly I just visit with hikers, do a little magic and provide the occasional slack. There goes a hiker now...
Cool.Thanks Nean, keep up the good deeds:cool:
Folks that don't pay thier share of taxes around here make up for it by buying shtloads of lottery tickets. Fools.:D
Never having had much money, I figure $2 a week is a bargain. Twice a week I get to dream that maybe this is my lucky day -- that maybe tomorrow I'll have the money to buy another mountain next to the trail without having to beg for donations, or that I can buy the remaining land next to a tiny pond in my town that I've been trying to preserve since 1975.
Yeah. I know the math is against me. But someone eventually wins. Think also how I'd feel if my numbers (mine and my wife's birthdays) came up after I stopped playing.
BTW the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust's Mt. Abraham campaign is winding down. We have raised the money needed to buy the mountain. The mortgage has been paid off. But we remain short of stewardship funds and the funds needed to keep our one person staff paid.
Those who can help need only open:
www.matlt.org
There you will find all the information you need to continue the fight to keep the trail in Maine wild.
Weary
Almost There
11-02-2005, 13:22
Lotteries are a tax on those who don't understand math
I gotcha guys, but what if I pay taxes and buy lottery tickets as well? Does that make me a bigger fool?
Spartan Hiker
11-02-2005, 13:56
I gotcha guys, but what if I pay taxes and buy lottery tickets as well? Does that make me a bigger fool?
No, just one of the hungriest.
TJ aka Teej
11-02-2005, 14:36
I know a lot of cheap hikers - but none would ever stiff a service provider.
Sure they would, Teej. Miss Janet and Bob Peoples get stiffed all the time. (In Janet's case, its people that stay for three or four days and pay for one or two; in Bob's case, it's folks who see that it's a "By Donation Only " hostel so they assume that means it's free. In both cases, it's people who accept long rides or slacks and don't offer a cent in payment).
There are a lot more people out there like this than you think.
OK, thanks Jack. I didn't 'get' what the thread was really asking. In my circle cheap=frugal. As in 'waste naught, want naught', 'use it up, wear it out, make do or do without'. Cheap being a positive attribute up here.
.... In my circle cheap=frugal. As in 'waste naught, want naught', 'use it up, wear it out, make do or do without'. Cheap being a positive attribute up here.
I'll go along with that. When I saw the thread title my first thought was, "I'm probably the cheapest guy on White Blaze. A friend who once managed a local supermarket once said that people like me are known in the trade as "cherry pickers," i.e. we only buy what's on sale.
My pantry is packed with three packages for a dollar spaghetti, and 50 cent rice concoctions (regularly $1.29) My hiking gear is mostly decades old. We live pretty cheap. That's why we can afford to donate liberally to trail hostels and give several thousand dollars a year to my land trusts, and to the church my wife is active in.
Weary
That definitely me too guys- I love "stock up" sales at the grocery store, I clothing shop at thrift stores/consignment shops. (I love getting $200 suits for work for $15 :D ), I get some stuff off Ebay.
Being frugal allows me to spend money on other things that are important, my charities, activities w/family & friends, my photography, Mike's woodworking stuff etc.
Pinch those pennies 'til they scream!!!!
Almost There
11-02-2005, 17:40
Ebay can be great, although it seems more and more there are idiots buying stuff on ebay. If you pay full price for something on ebay...you're an idiot. At that point might as well buy it from the store and get the warranty. My last three bids resulted in one sweet deal for a Hubba tent, but I ended up getting a Helium sleeping bag cheaper from an online store, and someone paid full price for a Patagonia midweight, so I went on to Patagonia's websight and got an R5 pullover on sale cheaper than the midweight. Ebay doesn't always equal cheap! Shop around. That being said I like a good deal but I can't claim frugal, but I'm a heckuva lot more frugal than I was two years ago.
I had to correct many hikers this summer who I met in Jersey refering to the Church of the Mountain hostel in DWG and the St. Thomas Church hostel in Vernon as ¨free. Just because it is on a dontion basis doesnt mean you should skip out and expect its free. In most cases like that, its best to give more than the suggested donation, if you can
Ignoring non-profits like churches, the other hostels should set a price. You just ask for people to avoid paying when the word "donation" is involved.
SGT Rock
11-02-2005, 18:47
I agree with Lobster. I've done fund raisers for Army family readiness groups and such where it is only allowed to accept donations - nothing can actually be for sale. BUT, if you say "Suggested donation is...." and then that helps both the morally challenged and the people like me who never know what we really should give in the first place.
Jack Tarlin
11-02-2005, 18:51
One point that Lobster is missing.....depending on local and state law, when a place sets posted or expected fees for services such as lodging and meals, it becomes subject to a welter of rules and regulations, including permits; inspections; Federal rules regarding access for the disabled; rules regarding vehicles and providing folks with rides; fees and taxes of all sorts; and all sorts of other things that both complicate their operation, and end up costing the proprietors all sorts of grief, never mind money. When you start formally charging for what you're offering hikers, you're immediately subject to all sorts of things that "voluntary" places can escape, and lots of folks don't want this hassle. This is why some of them operate on a "Donations Accepted" basis.
Also, some "by donation" places simply don't want to have set fees. They don't WANT to be a business, instead choosing to rely on their patrons' willingness to do the right thing and chip in for the services they've enjoyed.
And in most cases, this works.
Youngblood
11-02-2005, 18:54
Ignoring non-profits like churches, the other hostels should set a price. You just ask for people to avoid paying when the word "donation" is involved.
I agree with that. I suspect that hostels that use the word "donation" have hearts that go out to hikers that are struggling with money and as has mentioned before, they should not be taken advantage of by folks that would rather just spend their money on some other non necessity. There is a difference between unable and unwilling... one would hope that those not making a donation would view it more as a work for stay and would make a genuine effort to do something of substance in return for their stay.
Well, I got run off by uncle johnny, accused of not paying my taxes (don't ask me...) and of meddling in his affairs after I asked a woman in tears out front of his establishment if I could be of assistance, and of helping a hiker kidap a dog (which he rescued) and he's lucky I didn't kick his ass. The fact he drunkenly threatened to shoot me if I ever came back is why I never went back. Although I do occasionally walk or drive by as it is on the way somewhere else, praise the lord. I was gonna buy 10 snickers bars, too! (as they were 35 cents each). He said some other rude stuff that I wont repeat because it doesn't bear repeating. His ship ain't tight. He's a punk! So whatever.
SGT Rock
11-02-2005, 19:19
Well that is why you have to use the term "Suggested Donation" This still leaves it open to higher or lower, but it also gives someone an idea of what a fair fee might be based on expenses incurred in providing the shelter. For instance:
It may cost more for a hostel up north because utility and heating bills may be higher than around here where TVA can provide a hostel with cheaper electricity for heat, hot water, and cooking.
So if I went to a hostel up north and was used to giving say $10 and think that may be fair, but the northern hostel may actually be shorted with my donation while I had no intent of doing so.
Of course the situation here isn't necessary true, but I think it shows why it is a good idea for a donation hostel to at least give me something to work with when I may have no frame of reference as a hiker as to what is really fair.
Well that is why you have to use the term "Suggested Donation" This still leaves it open to higher or lower, but it also gives someone an idea of what a fair fee might be based on expenses incurred in providing the shelter. For instance:
It may cost more for a hostel up north because utility and heating bills may be higher than around here where TVA can provide a hostel with cheaper electricity for heat, hot water, and cooking.
So if I went to a hostel up north and was used to giving say $10 and think that may be fair, but the northern hostel may actually be shorted with my donation while I had no intent of doing so.
Of course the situation here isn't necessary true, but I think it shows why it is a good idea for a donation hostel to at least give me something to work with when I may have no frame of reference as a hiker as to what is really fair.
Thats a good point. Not only that, but generally it seems that several hikers get stingier the farther north they get claiming they are running out of money, which doesn´t seem real fair to hostel owners trying to run a business in new england or the mid atlantic
Lone Wolf
11-03-2005, 07:41
Hikers ALWAYS seem to have cash for beer, cigarettes, pizza, etc. while in towns but nothing for lodging. Wants and needs.
I was surprised at the number of hikers who asked Miss Janet for "work for stay" then didn't want to do any work. Sure, there were some (like Rabbit) who worked their rear ends off, but for the most part, she had to beg to get them to even help with the laundry or kitchen. Seems to me even those who pay could help with laundry or kitchen!
DaSchwartz
11-04-2005, 02:46
UJ doesn't take any crap & works own his schedule. If you want to get drunk, eat, and party, you go to Miss Janet's. Larry Tarlin can get away with his alcoholism and racism at Miss Janet's. BJ admits to drink booze right in front of her underaged children, something only an alcholic would do. A non-alcoholic would not drink Jim Beam out of the bottle in front of children, even with the persmission of the mother, they would be a lot more descreet.
If you want a quiet night sleep, you go to UJ and his wife's place.
But BJ and Miss Janet did conspire to remove UJ from the guide book.
And again, this shows that 100s of hikers have to be lying in order for the alcholic BJ to be telling the truth.
justusryans
11-04-2005, 03:17
UJ doesn't take any crap & works own his schedule. If you want to get drunk, eat, and party, you go to Miss Janet's. Larry Tarlin can get away with his alcoholism and racism at Miss Janet's. BJ admits to drink booze right in front of her underaged children, something only an alcholic would do. A non-alcoholic would not drink Jim Beam out of the bottle in front of children, even with the persmission of the mother, they would be a lot more descreet.
If you want a quiet night sleep, you go to UJ and his wife's place.
But BJ and Miss Janet did conspire to remove UJ from the guide book.
And again, this shows that 100s of hikers have to be lying in order for the alcholic BJ to be telling the truth.
I don't know Larry, Don't know BJ. But I don't agree with your statement that if you drink in front of your minor child that makes you a alcoholic.
I drink maybe a 12pack a YEAR! But I drink in front of my daughter. I don't see anything wrong with it. I think showing a child responsible drinking is a positive experience.
Please feel free to flame to your hearts content...
let me just add a word here....i like jack, i like Johnny and i like miss janet. i have used all 3 services, and yes jack yer guide is a service. i haven't seen any of the fights and feuds in the last 2 years you guys seem to keep rehashing. maybe there was, maybe there wasn't a feud. drop it. these new hikers can choose for themselves what they want to do and where they want to stay. matter of fact, loads are going to holiday inn now and bypassing both places altogether, because we don't want the BS, and that's what it is.
johnny has always been kind to me, considerate of my needs and responsive to my requests and i have brought him sales. he's been a valuable resource to my hikes. his wife is so kind, and his store had what i needed. that's all i want or need.
i take miss janet as a personal friend, and i've seen nothing but kindness and coopperation with the hiking community. the issues some of you Aholes have is nothing like what it is like in erwin today.
legend and lore may be sweet on the internet, but folks who hike just want a bed, feed bag, and resupply. and from what i have seen in erwin is a community that is respectful of the newest hiker's needs...drop the BS and give it a rest.
and red hat is right, everyone can pitch in on daily tasks, esspecially if yer staying more than a day this allows the hostel owner time to do what they do best, help more freely.
that's my $200...generally what i drop in erwin, between johnny, miss j, and foodlion.
justusryans
11-04-2005, 03:46
the issues some of you Aholes have is nothing like what it is like in erwin today. .
You've hurt my poor little feelings.... And I'm so sensitive!! sniff, sniff:( :eek:
SGT Rock
11-04-2005, 09:29
UJ doesn't take any crap & works own his schedule. If you want to get drunk, eat, and party, you go to Miss Janet's. Larry Tarlin can get away with his alcoholism and racism at Miss Janet's. BJ admits to drink booze right in front of her underaged children, something only an alcholic would do. A non-alcoholic would not drink Jim Beam out of the bottle in front of children, even with the persmission of the mother, they would be a lot more descreet.
If you want a quiet night sleep, you go to UJ and his wife's place.
But BJ and Miss Janet did conspire to remove UJ from the guide book.
And again, this shows that 100s of hikers have to be lying in order for the alcholic BJ to be telling the truth.
DaSchwartz,
Again you are going off with this. Apparently you must have something against Ms Janet too. So when you start making allegations that Ms Janet tried to get UJ out of a guide book (as you may know, there is no "the guidebook") you either must be a direct editor and have first hand knowledge (which I doubt) or you are gossiping and spreading hearsay. The rowel you are referring to ended years ago, so stop picking at scabs unless your intent is jut to be an *******.
As to Ms Janet, I've been there plenty of times and she is a great woman. I don't appreciate the attacks on her character. Lots of folks here have also stayed there and the consensus is you are only trying to stir up **** against her. Please stop now.
How about this, contribute positively to people learning about hiking or quit posting at WhiteBlaze.
TJ aka Teej
11-04-2005, 11:23
But BJ and Miss Janet did conspire to remove UJ from the guide book.
Not true in regard to the ATC's ALDHA Thru-hikers' Companion.
TJ aka Teej
ALDHA Companion Volunteer.
Daschwrattz is just trying to get people mad, no need to respond. I've been in BJ's presence many times in many states of mind and I've never seen him behave innapropriately. Uj is a person I've had but one encounter with. Daschwag seems to have a problem with alcoholism (in fact he's a jerk about it) Well, UJ was definitely drunk when he threatened to shoot me with his shotgun, when he shouted at and berated a young lady who as far as I could tell had done absolutely nothing to deserve it (not that anything she could have done would have justified his total drunken rampage that day), spewed vitriol about me, another hiker, lewd comments about Miss janet, and the proprietors of the Burrito joint in town. In short, no story or incident having anything to do with anything good UJ may have had a hand in can ever overcome the complete drunken punk he was that day. Again...Punk. In fact his behavior that day was some of the worst behavior I have ever witnessed a human being engage in. I will say, earlier, a woman at his establishment had been very nice and helpful to us. I can only assume she was UJ's unfortunate wife. I imagine any semblace of a "tight ship" anyone may have seen came from her. This was about the last week in may 2003.
Also, drinking in front of children is fine so long as you dont behave like UJ and apparently theSchartz do when they are drunk.
drink booze right in front of her underaged children, something only an alcholic would do.
So anyone that ever cracked a beer at a family picnic or took a nip out of a brandy bottle in front of minors is an alcoholic?!?!? Not.
You really have some unresolved issues with alcohol that I would suggest you get help with.
And you perhaps should have thought twice before bringing Miss Janet into your petty little spew. In ANYTHING I have read in this or any other forum about the AT Miss Janet is heralded as being a wonderful person who goes out of her way for others. This forum in particular may have really been the wrong place for you to even attempt to besmirch her. :mad:
Lone Wolf
11-04-2005, 11:47
I have been and always will be a drinker with a hiking problem. HIC!:jump
Spartan Hiker
11-04-2005, 11:53
I have been and always will be a drinker with a hiking problem. HIC!:jump
I suppose a twelve step program wouldn't be the best approach to recovery...
Uncle Silly
11-04-2005, 11:56
I have been and always will be a drinker with a hiking problem. HIC!:jump
LW, you have no idea just how much that inspires me to keep drinking ... :D
Lone Wolf
11-04-2005, 12:12
Cheers! Burp.:banana
The Old Fhart
11-04-2005, 12:55
DaSchwartz-".....drink booze right in front of....underaged children, something only an alcholic would do."Hummm, so every wedding reception where they toast the bride and groom proves everyone getting married or attending a wedding is an alcoholic? Everyone who chooses to celebrate Mass is an alcoholic because they drink wine in front of children? I don't think so.
Looks like the only person DaWarts thinks isn't corrupting the whole world is himself. I think he's just an A-H-oholic. Interesting that he and his friends, the pink elephants, are both imaginary. :)
Freighttrain
11-04-2005, 13:10
dont forget football and baseball.... and GodBless College binge drinking...."girls gone wild".... what kid hasnt seen a TV add for GirlsGoneWild?
Miss Janet
11-04-2005, 13:32
UJ doesn't take any crap & works own his schedule. If you want to get drunk, eat, and party, you go to Miss Janet's. Larry Tarlin can get away with his alcoholism and racism at Miss Janet's. BJ admits to drink booze right in front of her underaged children, something only an alcholic would do. A non-alcoholic would not drink Jim Beam out of the bottle in front of children, even with the persmission of the mother, they would be a lot more descreet.
If you want a quiet night sleep, you go to UJ and his wife's place.
But BJ and Miss Janet did conspire to remove UJ from the guide book.
And again, this shows that 100s of hikers have to be lying in order for the alcholic BJ to be telling the truth.
I have seen your posts attacking Jack and suggesting ridiculous things that you know nothing about. I tried to stay out of a lot of this but you are out of bounds!
First of all, DO I EVEN KNOW YOU?? Dirty Harry is such a common trail name and I have met several over the years but none with the nasty attitude you have. Have you ever been a guest in my home? I think not.
So will you kindly stop your comments that are hurtful and just wrong? There has been peace in Erwin for some time now and you are just bringing up bad times for a lot of people that are trying to move past all that. Your comments paint my house as some kind of nightmare. I don't think that the thousands that have been quests in my home over the years will agree with you. My children are young adults and everyone is extremely respectful of them. Your comments on the other hand are hurting my children and are disrespectful to me directly. Please stop.
But for the record... I had notheing to do with ALDHA"S decision to remove the Nolichucky Hostel from the Companion. I was surprised that they did but I understood the reasons which were valid at the time. The only thing that Jack and I have ever "conspired" about is the menu for some of the dinners we have cooked for hikers.
Jack Tarlin
11-04-2005, 14:54
The decision to remove the establishment in question from the Thru-Hikers Companion was made by the editors and publishers of the book, based on the unfortunate ammounts of complaints about the place, and the severity of the same. This remains, to my knowledge, the ONLY time a hiker establishment has been removed from a Trail guide for this reason.
It should be noted (as Miss Janet pointed out) that things are a lot better in Erwin now, and it's unfortuante that the anonymous Mr. Schwartz (and I do by the way have a good idea how this charming man is) feels the need to keep bringing this up. It doesn't do ANYONE any good, especially the place he seems to be defending. Most folks want to keep this stuff where it belongs, which is in the past.
So once again I suggest we let Mr. Schwartz go back under his rock, we ignore his unfortunate and untruthful posts, and discuss more worthy things.
Freighttrain
11-04-2005, 15:07
have the web gods cross match the users IP address and see what comes up :)
SGT Rock
11-04-2005, 15:40
Yes we have, there is no big conspiracy, he apparently is just someone that hates Jack and is willing to say anything for ammunition in that hatred.
I guess I know a lot of alcoholics in church. When they drink that darn wine they are just contributing to the delinquency of so many young minds :-?
the goat
11-04-2005, 15:52
Yes we have, there is no big conspiracy, he apparently is just someone that hates Jack and is willing to say anything for ammunition in that hatred.
I guess I know a lot of alcoholics in church. When they drink that darn wine they are just contributing to the delinquency of so many young minds :-?
they must be stopped!!!!:jump
I have been and always will be a drinker with a hiking problem. HIC!:jump
That's the reason so few trails are straight.
Leave no turn unstoned.
From what I know, some people have had good stays at UJ's. However, there have also been numerous complaints about it's owner. Some of the complaints relate to hiker behavior. But several have nothing to do with hiker behavior.
It's regreatable that the hostel got delisted in the ALDHA Companion, but I'm sure it was done because of the numerous complaints from a whole lot of hikers.
This topic has been beat to death and buried a long time ago. Let's not rehash it.
SGT Rock
11-05-2005, 09:54
Censor him!:D
You know I have a great temptation to do so Nean. The problem is I hate censorship and would rather let Mr Scwartz make his personality known by his writing. Needless to say , anyone that comes to WhiteBlaze would probably shun Mr Schwartz now if they were to meet him on the trail simply because he has made his true colors known and refuses to relent.
Basically I only really censor when the poster is a spammer, threatens someone, or posts something simply designed to offend - like hate speech, racial bigotry, etc. Thread occasionally get killed for certain reason, but even those threads are usually maintained because we hate censorship.
Maybe we need to add reverse spam? When someone attempts to turn any thread into an anti-establishment campaign that isn't welcome.
Thoughts from others - especially Troll?
You know I have a great temptation to do so Nean. ...
Basically I only really censor when the poster is a spammer, threatens someone, or posts something simply designed to offend - like hate speech, racial bigotry, etc. Thread occasionally get killed for certain reason, but even those threads are usually maintained because we hate censorship.
Maybe we need to add reverse spam? When someone attempts to turn any thread into an anti-establishment campaign that isn't welcome.
Thoughts....?
That's an idea. Think about censoring those who criticize bfitz for being in favor of secret torture. What could be more establishment that our president?
SGT Rock
11-05-2005, 10:41
That's an idea. Think about censoring those who criticize bfitz for being in favor of secret torture. What could be more establishment that our president?
LOL, well Weary, I oppose torture, secret or not.
By establishment I meant a service provider establishment. I hope you didn't really think I meant that we should censor people for opposing the Government on one thing or another.
...By establishment I meant a service provider establishment. I hope you didn't really think I meant that we should censor people for opposing the Government on one thing or another.
Well, our government used to be a service provider. We've been working our way out of the practice for the past five years.
SGT Rock
11-05-2005, 11:26
Well OK then, but whatever. That isn't what I meant. I meant a deliberate attempt to destroy the reputation of a service provider's establishment. So if Ms Janet and BJ got on here and started spamming the site about how awful UJs was, I would be forced the censor the posts, and if Mr Schwartz got on here and started trying to make Ms Janet look bad, the same would follow.
Anyway, since you are usually level headed, do you think that is off base? I respect your opinion more than most folks here on things like this.
I suppose a twelve step program wouldn't be the best approach to recovery...
Heh heh..... :D
Thoughts from others - especially Troll?
Well... He is probably violating his ISP's TOS agreement. :cool:
Perhaps they might like to know about the stalking, slanderous and imflammatory acts that he has been committing in this forum? :D
...do you think that is off base? .... .
Well this thread has long since drifted from its original purpose -- as most interesting threads tend to do. That's what makes them interesting. We started talking about hikers that don't contribute to hostels, moved to a discussion of cheapness as a virtue, and slipped into name calling and slander.
In response to your query, my contributions range from wise (50 cent Near East rice concoctions are truly a bargain to us that use Zip stoves) to irony, to a wry political comment. All three strike me as preferable to the attacks on Uncle Johnny and Miss Janet -- and much less long winded.
Weary
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2005, 12:05
Nice of you to speak up for Janet and John, Weary. And nice to see that the lovely comments lobbed in my direction didn't seem to trouble you overmuch.
I always suspected you were a truly classy guy. Thanx for confirming it.
Nice of you to speak up for Janet and John, Weary. And nice to see that the lovely comments lobbed in my direction didn't seem to trouble you overmuch.
I always suspected you were a truly classy guy. Thanx for confirming it.
Thanks for the praise, Jack. I never comment on every thing that bothers me on this or any thread. Besides you are a master at lobbing "lovely" comments hither and yon. You can defend yourself far better than I could ever hope to do.
SGT Rock
11-05-2005, 12:38
Now boys. Break it up and play nice. How about both of you giving an opinion on the subject and not about each other. :-?
I don't like personal attacks of any flavor. Having debates, hell even arguments about a topic is fine but keep it about the topic without turning it into a personal attack.
(edited because I forgot the "without")
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2005, 12:43
Jeez, Rock, I gave an opinion on the subject way back when, like the 4th post of this thread.....it was Steve, Schwartz and apparently now Weary that got it off topic. If the thread got lost somewhere along the line, don't blame me!
SGT Rock
11-05-2005, 12:55
I know you did Jack. What I am talking about is more of a thought about general policy around here more than this specific incident. And this is something that needs some thought before I just carte blanch impose it.
For example, let me go into an example that could directly impact you: Image, for a moment, that you get onto Warren Doyle in a post about how crummy an idea it is for people to go on one of his trips because of something that happened 10 years ago (just an example) and then based on the new policy I am thinking about, I may have to censor the post because Warren could be considered a service provider because he provides his Circle a hiking service. People that use him (and any other service provider) are adults and "buyer beware" at all times anyway - so beating him up for something that happened years ago could be considered the same as what DaShwartz is doing now: bad mouthing a service provider. Unless Warren was out there being a crook and ripping off his clients (which I doubt seriously anyone would say or could quantify), his service and methods are his own and his clients, not people with hearsay and gossip, would be the ones that would be qualified to comment on his performance.
I hate censorship, but I also hate crap like this as well. And censorship can lead to unintended results if it is even started in the first place.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2005, 13:28
Personally, Rock, I think the level of administrative control that you and Troll exercise here is just fine. I think most of the folks here at WB are smart enough to figure out who has credibility and who doesn't, and as for the folks who have nothing whatsoever to contribute; and those who slag people anonymously, or those who post under three or four names.....whatever these folks do, I think most of us are wise enough to ignore them. Eventually these folks get bored and go away, usually when people stop paying attention to them.
As far as censoring posts or individuals, I can certainly think of a few good candidates, but in the final analysis, to hell with 'em. I get slammed as hard here as anyone else, and if I can put up with the occasional idiot, then so can anyone else.
The website is best which admisisters least.
...
I hate censorship, but I also hate crap like this as well. And censorship can lead to unintended results if it is even started in the first place.
My vote is to let the comments, wise and unwise, flow on, aside from an occasional shuffling of the worse thread hijackers into separate threads.
Censorship always has unintended consequences. It's always a slippery slope. Just as litter breeds litter. Censorship breeds more censorship, as I suspect Wingfoot has discovered to his regret.
Weary
Well, I have to point this out, even though its probably been done before, but I just saved 15% on my car insurance. BTW, here in easturn Tennessee we breed litter, porch couches, broke down cars and just bout anything else we can outrun, just fer fun.
Nightwalker
11-05-2005, 18:14
The guy/gal who never put in any money at the hostels with suggested "donations"!
You know, this ain't what you had in mind, but I gotta be a dishonorable mention by hiking in boots I found in a shelter. I *really* like 'em too.
:D
Nightwalker
11-05-2005, 18:23
If you want a quiet night sleep, you go to UJ and his wife's place.
Yeah, we know. And UJ ain't a drunk, and he never drove a shuttle under the influence (before noon even!), and on and on and on. And you're just a good ole boy that isn't grinding an axe, right?
You need a hike. And a ban. Rock?
The quote below was something I googled up, but is constant with my understanding of certain legalities:
Libel per se describes statements which are widely understood to be harmful to a person's reputation. For example, referring to an individual as an alcoholic or criminal, or any description which would lower the reputation of that individual in the eyes of others. These words are harmful and libelous
Since DaSchwartz insists on saying the same thing over and over-- and lacking any proof to suggests what he is saying is in fact the truth-- I would ban him from the site effective immediately. If he was calling another member of this site a child molester, wife beater or thief over and over again he would get banned. Right? This is really no different.
Its time for DaSchwartz to go.
Nightwalker
11-05-2005, 18:50
Yeah, we know. And UJ ain't a drunk, and he never drove a shuttle under the influence (before noon even!), and on and on and on. And you're just a good ole boy that isn't grinding an axe, right?
You need a hike. And a ban. Rock?
You know, I have a better idea. This guy is probably SteveHiker or Steve somebody or just somebody else with an axe to grind that's already known to the owners of the list. Why not just use known i.p. addresses or whatever to out the guy like rock did with Steve Hiker?
To blunt any criticism that could ever be made of me, I'll out myself over two long ago aliases. When I fell off my first thru attempt from those stupid headaches, at first I was embarrassed and didn't know how to explain myself, and hid behind a "Floops" alias. I probably also used it as a time to anonymously throw in some digs at a few folks as well. I remember one, there were most likely more.
The other was a one post tirade under the pseudonym "SteveHikerBitesMe." It was in response to an extremely racist rant responding to a question from a young black lady asking a question about folks of color on the trail. Truthfully, I would have probably killed him that day if he were in front of me, I was SO ANGRY! I'm glad that the $%#&*$% jerk wasn't. It takes a lot of years to convince yourself that you're non-violent, one red flash to show you that no one truly is.
Somehow, the first one made me feel guilty. Not the second one. Stevie boy, you can still kiss my @ss. Would take a bullet for ya. Would give you a kidney. Have no interest in sharing a bottle, however.
Forget the ban. Out him.
The Old Fhart
11-05-2005, 19:53
In the interest of being exact, Rickboudrie's definition of libel isn't quite correct. This is the way I've seen it described and the way I understand it. (emphasis mine)
Libel is a defamatory statement expressed in a fixed medium, usually writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast.
Defamation-The elements that must be proved to establish defamation are: (1) A publication to one other than the person defamed; (2) of a false statement of fact; (3) which is understood as being of and concerning the plaintiff; and (4) which is understood in such a way as to tend to harm the reputation of plaintiff. So calling John dillinger a crook isn't libel because under (2), it is true; and under (4), it can' t be construed as harming his reputation-he has already done that.
So this doesn't affect the statements of DeSchwartz, They are still pathetic and totally BS. But if someone was foolish enough to come on Whiteblaze and admit to doing jail time or commiting a criminal act and you call them on that, that isn't libel.
justusryans
11-05-2005, 20:05
So this doesn't affect the statements of DeSchwartz, They are still pathetic and totally BS. But if someone was foolish enough to come on Whiteblaze and admit to doing jail time or commiting a criminal act and you call them on that, that isn't libel.
Was this directed at me? sniff, sniff:(
The Old Fhart
11-05-2005, 20:38
Justusryans-"Was this directed at me? sniff, sniff:( Gawd no! I tried to use the generic "someone" so no real person would take offence. ...but is taking offense stealing???:D
...but is taking offense stealing???:D
No, but taking a fence is. :rolleyes:
The Old Fhart
11-05-2005, 20:44
..sometimes the spoken word misconstrues what the spoken word meant.;)
The quote below was something I googled up, but is constant with my understanding of certain legalities:
Since DaSchwartz insists on saying the same thing over and over-- and lacking any proof to suggests what he is saying is in fact the truth-- I would ban him from the site effective immediately. If he was calling another member of this site a child molester, wife beater or thief over and over again he would get banned. Right? This is really no different.
Its time for DaSchwartz to go.
No. A letter to his ISP would work. They might call him and confront him with it with and promise to jerk his account if he doesn't stop. That should get him to reevaluate and lighten up a bit.
That's not censorship but more of a wake-up call, IMO.
OF, you are correct. Calling John dillinger a criminal would not be libelous. Telling the truth never is.
But let's not even think about debating any of the particulars here.
Fact is, this isn't a court room-- its a community. In my world, the benefit of the doubt on such matters must go the real members of that community. That's not to say people's observed behavior can't be criticized or commented upon. Hell, I am happy to participate in that.
That's not what's going on here, however.
Time to say good bye to DaSwartz.
The Old Fhart
11-05-2005, 20:55
Rick, I agree that DeSchwarts is DaPitz
justusryans
11-05-2005, 21:20
Rick, I agree that DeSchwarts is DaPitz
DaGoober:eek: