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Different Socks
02-24-2015, 18:01
Sheb can be wearing several layers and polys and have a 20 degree bag or better and believes she is still cold. This belief is constricting her desire to get out with me since hiking/backpacking/sleeping in the woods is new to her.
We use a small trailer for all the gear necessary for hiking/bping/camping. Can anyone suggest a good blanket and/or its material that can be used in the tent and would definitely keep her warm?

Connie
02-24-2015, 18:04
I think Winter Silks catalogue has cashmere. No kidding.

Maybe artificial fabric doesn't feel warm.

I wear New Zealand wood Icebreakers 200 wt first layer tops over a cami.

I wear "silkweights" bottoms over underwear. My favorite after underwear first layer is wool and silk.

Maybe she would like natural fabrics better.

Maybe she would like to share the sleeping bag? No mummy bag, for her?

Tipi Walter
02-24-2015, 18:12
I'd go the Titanium Goat or Kifaru route and camp in a "hot-tent", something with a woodstove. The whole contraption is fairly light and backpack-able. Nothing like in-tent wood heat on a winter trip.

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 18:18
I think Winter Silks catalogue has cashmere. No kidding.

Maybe artificial fabric doesn't feel warm.

I wear New Zealand wood Icebreakers 200 wt first layer tops over a cami.

I wear "silkweights" bottoms over underwear. My favorite after underwear first layer is wool and silk.

Maybe she would like natural fabrics better.

Maybe she would like to share the sleeping bag? No mummy bag, for her?

Thanks for ideas. I hike alot alone b/c I enjoy lung busting, leg aching ascents and long mile days. So I use a bag that is not compatible with hers. I have looked into getting bags that match, but can't spare the money right now.

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 18:20
I'd go the Titanium Goat or Kifaru route and camp in a "hot-tent", something with a woodstove. The whole contraption is fairly light and backpack-able. Nothing like in-tent wood heat on a winter trip.

Is the Titanium/Kifaru route a wood burning stove?

DLP
02-24-2015, 18:35
I'd up the sleeping pad R value and get a women specific pad. Or use two pads - a closed cell pad on the bottom and a more comfortable pad on top. It might be the pad and not the sleeping bag.

Make sure that she is using everything correctly. I recently shared a campsite with a woman with a Big Agnes bag and she didn't realize that the pad slides into the sleeve. She was rolling over and shifting the bag and had just 2 thin layers of nylon over her and was freezing. :(

DLP
02-24-2015, 18:40
Sheb can be wearing several layers and polys and have a 20 degree bag or better and believes she is still cold. My take on bag ratings: "You will not DIE in 20 degree temperatures in this 20 degree rated bag. However, you will NOT be warm nor will you be comfortable. You will be miserable, but you will probably live". The newer EN ratings give comfort rating for men vs. women.

Tipi Walter
02-24-2015, 18:43
Is the Titanium/Kifaru route a wood burning stove?

They are single pole tipi tents made of very lightweight nylon with a stove jack and a collapsible stove and stove pipe. The whole wad comes to around 10 lbs---easily manageable for two people.

http://algonquinbasecamp.ca/images/rentals/partial/kifarutipi.jpg
This pic from---

http://bookcoverimgs.com/hot-tent-stoves/algonquinbasecamp.ca*images*rentals*partial*kifaru tipi.jpg/algonquinbasecamp.ca*winterrentals*/

The Solemates
02-24-2015, 18:45
I'd up the sleeping pad R value and get a women specific pad. Or use two pads - a closed cell pad on the bottom and a more comfortable pad on top. It might be the pad and not the sleeping bag.

Make sure that she is using everything correctly. I recently shared a campsite with a woman with a Big Agnes bag and she didn't realize that the pad slides into the sleeve. She was rolling over and shifting the bag and had just 2 thin layers of nylon over her and was freezing. :(

Agreed. Correct pad is a huge factor that a lot of people overlook.

For winter camping I've used a traditional prolite equivalent thermarest for years. Its done a good job....or so I thought. About 2 years ago I bought a top of the line silver NeoAir...one of those with the reflecting material. Its double the R value. I cant believe the difference. I can sleep well below the temperature rating of my sleeping bag now in comfort. its night and day.

FlyFishNut
02-24-2015, 18:47
Get two bags that zip together and YOU keep her warm.

illabelle
02-24-2015, 18:49
I'm usually cold when I first go to bed. How long I stay that way depends on several things: temperature, what I'm wearing, etc. But eventually I do warm up, and can usually stay warm after that point.
I believe a lot of my problem is that I'm cold when I go to bed. If I would spend a few minutes just before bed generating some heat with a short walk or similar activity, I think it would help. Haven't really tried it though, so I can't be sure.
The quickest way for me to warm up is to snuggle close to my husband. Even in a separate bag, it's amazing how much instant heat can be felt just from eliminating the gap between us. Not always easy to do, because his pad is in the Big Agnes sleeve, so he can't shift to the edge of the pad to meet me in the middle. When I'm really cold, sticking the bottom half of my sleeping bag inside his (with him in it) brings fast relief from the shivers.

Malto
02-24-2015, 19:16
Agreed. Correct pad is a huge factor that a lot of people overlook.

For winter camping I've used a traditional prolite equivalent thermarest for years. Its done a good job....or so I thought. About 2 years ago I bought a top of the line silver NeoAir...one of those with the reflecting material. Its double the R value. I cant believe the difference. I can sleep well below the temperature rating of my sleeping bag now in comfort. its night and day.

This is my vote

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 19:17
I gave her my Z-rest to use as a pad, but last summer I tried a NeoAire, and had bad results for myself so I went back to my trusted closed cell pad and decided to let her use the Neo and the Z-rest. Will try the 2 together this summer, along with better polys and something else if necessary.
Pardon me for saying this, but when she says she is cold I can touch her belly and it is freakin hot!! So I'm thinking she just needs to learn a better tolerance level.

Slack-jawed Trog
02-24-2015, 19:25
She may be a cold sleeper, not unlike me. I use a bag rated 10-20 lower than my expected low temps. And a fleece bag liner, as I HATE the feeling of cold nylon, even with a thermal base layer. Good advice about spooning, and the use of more than one sleeping pad, too. In winter, I always use 2: WallyWorld blue CCF, and a Z-rest, make a huge difference in comfort. FWIW, several of us get together annually, and spend a January weekend in a shelter either in the Green MTNs in VT or the Berks in Mass. (Haven't spooned since my ACW re-enacting days but it works.)
I've used a Thermacare back patch worn on my back/kidney area when camping, hunting and fishing in cold temps. The package said they were good for 12 hours but I've routinely gotten 14++ out of them. Combined with hand and foot warmer packs, I've been fairly comfy in some otherwise cold, snotty weather. Maybe she could try some combo of those to see if it helps.

YMMV, and invariably will...

gypsy97
02-24-2015, 19:26
I respectfully disagree that she should learn a better tolerance level, and hope you haven't told her that. Women sleep differently than men, and need a sleeping bag that is warmer in different places than what a man requires. She definitely needs a women's sleeping bag at as low a temp as you can afford. I used to freeze every night - loved the hiking and hated the camping part - until I bought a women's down bag rated at 10 degrees. If I couldn't afford down I might try primaloft filling but it should be a women's bag rated for women. Our differences aren't weaknesses, it's just the way some of us are wired.

DLP
02-24-2015, 19:46
when she says she is cold I can touch her belly and it is freakin hot!! So I'm thinking she just needs to learn a better tolerance level. People with fevers can feel very hot when you touch them, but they feel freezing and have chills and shakes. Your hand on her stomach can't tell you how she feels.

If she feels cold, she feels cold. It isn't something she "believes" or has made up in her head or something she just needs to get over. Being cold is miserable.

canoe
02-24-2015, 20:06
Start with the feet. Try some alpaca socks or down boots. That said I have a friend that no matter what he puts on (and he has tried everything) he can never get warm.

Slosteppin
02-24-2015, 20:24
A few times when nights got much colder than expected I have used hot water bottles. A quart platy or Nalgene filled with near boiling water then covered with any spare clothing will till be warm in the morning. I've only used one at my feet but a second could also be used near stomach or back.
This costs nothing to experiment.

Slo-go'en
02-24-2015, 20:37
It may be psychological. What could be a comfortable temperature for her inside could be unacceptable outside, just because she is outside. If that is the case, no amount of insulation will help.

kayak karl
02-24-2015, 21:00
just like some people feel warmer after drinking a hot coco (it does not change your body temp) other feel cold when they breath cold air. my mother used to put on a sweater after eating ice cream.

also drinking ice cold water burns calories as your body works to bring it to 98.6 degrees. it should warm you up ;)

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 21:18
Thanks for all the comments and replies everyone. I meant no ill intentions in regards to her having a lower temp tolerance. I've just noticed how she can say she is cold when it is 50 and no wind and then say she is warm enough in the same temps but with a breeze.

Just Bill
02-24-2015, 21:24
Sounds like she should sleep with someone hotter. :D

Or have a hot toddy and wear a hat...

Perception is reality.

DLP
02-24-2015, 21:31
I've just noticed how she can say she is cold when it is 50 and no wind and then say she is warm enough in the same temps but with a breeze. Could be the humid or how much she's eaten (or not eaten). I am freezing in San Francisco on a foggy day at 50 degrees and totally comfortable at 20 degrees and sunny.

Feral Bill
02-24-2015, 21:34
Is she around your age? That may be your answer. What thermal control my wife had went far away around that time. If I had a solution I'd be a billionaire.

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 22:21
Is she around your age? That may be your answer. What thermal control my wife had went far away around that time. If I had a solution I'd be a billionaire.

Nope, no where my age. I'm living every man's dream at my age--she is only 25!!!

bigcranky
02-24-2015, 22:35
It's probably not psychological.

My lovely wife is always cold, and often complaining about it. I didn't take it seriously until one weekend on the trail a couple of years ago. We had gone to bed after dark in late October in the Mt Rogers area on a chilly weekend - temps were in the mid-30s when we went to bed. She had a high end Montbell zero-F rated down bag -- I would have just sweated to death inside that bag. I was toasty inside my 30F bag, while she spent a couple of hours complaining about being cold. Then she got up to answer the call of nature, and just for kicks I got inside her bag -- which was *freezing cold.* She wasn't putting out any body heat at all.

Yes, she had enough food, and yes, she had a great warm pad. She just didn't generate heat. I'm not real sure how to solve this problem -- she eventually got warm and was fine, but I don't know how to repeat that or make suggestions.

Edit: I have found the large chemical handwarmer packets do help sometimes.

Different Socks
02-24-2015, 22:41
It's probably not psychological.

My lovely wife is always cold, and often complaining about it. I didn't take it seriously until one weekend on the trail a couple of years ago. We had gone to bed after dark in late October in the Mt Rogers area on a chilly weekend - temps were in the mid-30s when we went to bed. She had a high end Montbell zero-F rated down bag -- I would have just sweated to death inside that bag. I was toasty inside my 30F bag, while she spent a couple of hours complaining about being cold. Then she got up to answer the call of nature, and just for kicks I got inside her bag -- which was *freezing cold.* She wasn't putting out any body heat at all.

Yes, she had enough food, and yes, she had a great warm pad. She just didn't generate heat. I'm not real sure how to solve this problem -- she eventually got warm and was fine, but I don't know how to repeat that or make suggestions.

Edit: I have found the large chemical handwarmer packets do help sometimes.

BigCranky, I have also gone the route of the handwarmers. Even got another bundle bag this week. So I will have that as well when it comes to outings in April/May, Sep/Oct.

Treehugger
02-24-2015, 22:43
Low thyroid and/or hormones can cause the internal "thermostat" to work improperly. Perhaps a trip to the dr maybe in order. As far as equiptment goes my Neo xTherm pad is great for cold sleepers. Wearing a hat is key too. Good luck to her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spirit Walker
02-24-2015, 23:35
Make sure she changes all her clothes from the skin out as soon as you stop hiking. If she sleeps in the clothes she hiked in, they may retain moisture which will keep her colder. Fleece socks and warm hat. Winter camping she may need two pads underneath, not one. If her summer pad is short (I use a 3/4 pad to save weight) put clothes or a pack under her feet so they aren't in contact with the damp ground. Is her bag too big for her? It may be taking a lot of energy just to warm up the empty space. It's warmer in a small tent than in a shelter or larger tent. As someone else said, exercise a bit before bed - go for a walk or at the least do some jumping jacks or run in place. Eat something or better still, drink something warm before bed. Again, someone mentioned filling a Nalgene with hot water - that really works well and heats up the sleeping bag quickly and it retains heat for a while. Do it before she gets into bed.

Trailweaver
02-25-2015, 02:10
As Treehugger mentioned, a thyroid problem can wreak havoc on thermostat control (both being too cold and too hot). Since she is 25 years old, she might also be suffering from anemia, which could result in her feeling cold. The problem could also be low blood pressure either naturally or due to medication. She should get to a doctor for some lab tests after thoroughly discussing the problem with him/her. It truly is a miserable problem, and unless you have "been there" you cannot imagine how miserable it is.

Also, I'd like to point out that most men have larger bodies (and more body fat) than women, and that can account for the difference in how they detect temperature.

I have been "cold" for years, and until digital thermometers came into regular use, no one believed it. Turns out I don't have a 98.6 temp ever! I barely register 97. It does make a difference.

4eyedbuzzard
02-25-2015, 08:12
http://io9.com/why-do-womens-bodies-run-colder-than-mens-836827770

Connie
02-25-2015, 10:37
When I visited UK, I was told to bring my warmest dress clothing: there was no central heating in a large stone convent. I had my own "central heating" kick in, shedding extra warm clothing, once I had tea.

Yorkshire Red tea? I don't know. The tea was thick, hot water added to suit yourself. The milk was more like a light cream.

Maybe this is what having tea is so important to so many hikers?

I am convinced, however, it may be a slight imbalance of thyroid function.

Does she gave a seizure disorder? That is another explanation for difficulties of temperature regulation.

Meds? That could be the explanation.

Warmest clothing? Cashmere. Alpaca. Icelandic sweater.

Much too warm for hiking activities for me, there are thin cashmere longjohns available. Just sayin'

Once, however, in coastal Oregon mountains, my alpaca wrap was "just right" wrapped around me inside a ToddTex bivy.

double d
02-25-2015, 10:58
Sounds like she should sleep with someone hotter. :D

Or have a hot toddy and wear a hat...

Perception is reality.
Yup, thinking he same thing Just Bill!!!!!

booney_1
02-25-2015, 11:07
I like quilted underwear...for sleeping...
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/78255?page=primaloft-insulated-long-underwear
or
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/Cabelas/004377?hei=373&wid=770&op_sharpen=1

or http://www.hanksclothing.com/media/zoom/resized/0988blk-1_size2.jpghttp://www.hanksclothing.com/media/zoom/resized/0388blk-1_size2.jpg

(hanks clothing)

Add some down booties and she will be toasty.

mudsocks
02-25-2015, 12:04
http://io9.com/why-do-womens-bodies-run-colder-than-mens-836827770

30073

That's a significant temperature difference. It's data that backs up my own unempirical experience. My wife is comfortable (warm) using quilts rated for lower temps that I would be uncomfortably warm in. She also says loose fitting fleece socks feel warmer.

Get her a warmer bag.

Slo-go'en
02-25-2015, 12:42
30073

That's a significant temperature difference. It's data that backs up my own unempirical experience. My wife is comfortable (warm) using quilts rated for lower temps that I would be uncomfortably warm in. She also says loose fitting fleece socks feel warmer.

Get her a warmer bag.

From that article is sounds like she needs warmer socks, gloves and maybe a hat. I always thought that a woman's extra layer of fat would keep them warmer and it does keep their core warmer, but the extremities suffer. Having cold hands and feet make you think your colder then you really are, so I was partially right saying it was psychological, but with a significant physiological component.

DLP
02-25-2015, 13:25
Sounds like she should sleep with someone hotter. :D Darn you, Bill. I just sprayed coffee all over my monitor!

Women generally have slower metabolisms than men, thus sleep colder, regardless of fat.

I have a good bag rated for 19 degrees and I use it year round. I totally comfortable at 50 degrees in that bag. I also have a really good pad. In the 30's, I put up the hood. In the 20's... I bring a second sleeping bag.

I still think that she needs a better pad and the inexpensive pads might work for you, but you'll need to invest in a better pad for her.

I'd borrow some stuff and go car camping (where weight isn't an issue) and experiment until you get it figured out.

ALLEGHENY
02-25-2015, 14:57
Could it be that she needs to eat? Something to fuel the furnace.

Rolls Kanardly
02-26-2015, 11:41
Is she around your age? That may be your answer. What thermal control my wife had went far away around that time. If I had a solution I'd be a billionaire.
+ 1
My wife's heater did a flame out when she hit fifty but I still would not trade her for a 25 year old.

Rolls Kanardly
02-26-2015, 11:51
Edit: I have found the large chemical handwarmer packets do help sometimes.

Place them in the middle of the back closest to the internal organs. Heat up the blood which will hopefully heat up the rest of the body. Same principal as sleeping with your back to the camp fire.
Rolls

swisscross
02-26-2015, 15:15
Thanks for ideas. I hike alot alone b/c I enjoy lung busting, leg aching ascents and long mile days. So I use a bag that is not compatible with hers. I have looked into getting bags that match, but can't spare the money right now.

Bags don't have to match perfectly.
I have a NF Blue Kazoo that zipped almost perfectly to my wife's 0 degree MH.
Take your bag to the store and see what they have that will work.

She does to go often so I now have a 20 and a 0 degree bag...but I usually just take my 30 degree bag and extra cloths