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njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:05
My thread was closed due to this?

"What you're missing is any subject on illegalities is forbidden on Whiteblaze.

You may not have a credit card but you can hook up with a hiker on the trail that does have one, pay them and obtain a permit legally.

With that said, case closed."

The ATHC website states there are no permits required for the entire length of the AT for hiking. Only for camping.

https://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/regulations-permits

So no I was not discussing illegal activity. Quite unfair to jump to that conclusion and accuse me of such. A ranger stopping me to ask for a camping permit while I am hiking is harassment since there are no permits required to simply hike.

Again I pose the question, not of any illegality, what others experiences were hiking without a permit? Again which is not illegal.

10-K
02-26-2015, 18:13
Unless you're going to day hike GSMNP you'll need a thru hiker permit.

https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=2

njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:15
Thank you. Much easier to give me that information than simply accuse me of preaching illegality and get my post banned.

njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:16
Meant closed...

njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:19
Reading that, the ATC is still correct. The permit is required for all overnight stays. Not simply hiking. So my question of peoples experience hiking without a permit is still valid with whiteblaze no illegal activity discussed rule. Was just wondering if people were regularly harassed while hiking.

10-K
02-26-2015, 18:21
Maybe you can ask how many thru hikers day hiked the Smokies.. :)

njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:29
I could ask that, but that wouldn't answer my question on the level of harassment by the rangers against thru hikers.

njgramm
02-26-2015, 18:37
So far in the original post one woman said she was stopped 3 times. That was the only answer to what I was asking. The rest either said why not or get one. Or of course I was talking illegal activity. Not sure the confusion. Didn't think it was wrong to ask the level of harassment by government officials in a particular situation.

rock steady
02-26-2015, 18:38
I would not assume that a ranger wants to harrass me.You can if you want to, but there's a chance that the ranger is out there for some other reason than harrassing hikers -- or campers (wink wink) Since she or he might conceivably know a little bit more than I do or have more experience than I do or be ready to help me avoid something up the trail--I might be willing to grant her or him a few seconds out of my busy sched. Or not. I may just say 'How come you harrassin' me?'
Or you might tell him you're thru-hiking the park in one day w/o camping. Yeah that might work (wink wink)

illabelle
02-26-2015, 19:19
Perhaps another way to get the information you seem to be seeking is to simply ask whether rangers check the permit status of hikers.
I have backpacked the AT and elsewhere through the Smokies without ever being asked about a permit. I have dayhiked here and there, including parts of the AT, in the Smokies with and without a small pack, without ever being asked about a permit.
That said, if you're carrying a tent/hammock, sleeping bag and pad, stove, fuel, food, and extra clothing, you will be considered a backpacker. Even if you night-hike and sleep exclusively during the day, you will probably be considered a backpacker.

kayak karl
02-26-2015, 19:29
are rangers harassing hikers?? new to me!

Speakeasy TN
02-26-2015, 19:34
I was just wondering, if anyone felt free to share, how many have thru hiked without obtaining a "permit" through the park areas? Follow up question is, if so, what were your experiences in doing so?

THIS is why it got closed. Illegal activity. Go by the rules (here and the Trail) or stay away.

MuddyWaters
02-26-2015, 19:37
You obviously have no idea how clueless many americans are. A bunch will show up to backpack, unaware they need a permit, or shelter reservations. If you encounter a ranger, expect to be asked for your permit, its part of their job. They arent harassing anyone.

Then there are those that do know, and disregard rules because they are tools.

njgramm
02-26-2015, 19:38
Exactly. And hiking without a permit is not illegal Speakeasy TN.

njgramm
02-26-2015, 19:41
True MuddyWaters, just saying the permit they are asking for is a camping permit, which is illegal for them to require if you want to talk illegality. We have the right to travel. If I am not camping I am not even breaking their unconstitutional rules they have made up therefore even in their world I am not committing a crime and am protected by the 4th amendment. Wow. apparently questioning the governments abuse of our civil rights is not accepted here. Amazing.

MuddyWaters
02-26-2015, 19:41
Hiking with overnight gear without a permit..is illegal.
So is having fishing gear in a boat, without a fishing license.

Coffee
02-26-2015, 19:46
I know for a fact that day hiking with what is perceived to be an overnight pack in Yosemite is illegal without a wilderness permit. I was thinking about doing the Tuolumne to Yosemite Valley section of the JMT as a day hike this year as a side trip from my PCT thru hike but I can't do that with my overnight gear. The explanation I received, which isn't entirely unreasonable, is that one is presumed to be backpacking if in possession of backpacking gear since the rangers cannot know or confirm your intentions if they encounter you on the trail during the day. I can understand that perspective.

MuddyWaters
02-26-2015, 19:54
It may not be illegal per se, but if they have probable cause to believe rules are being broken, they will ticket. You will need to show up in court to contest. You really dont want a ticket from the feds IMO.

Yosemite makes it very clear.

Seatbelt
02-26-2015, 20:02
True MuddyWaters, just saying the permit they are asking for is a camping permit, which is illegal for them to require if you want to talk illegality. We have the right to travel. If I am not camping I am not even breaking their unconstitutional rules they have made up therefore even in their world I am not committing a crime and am protected by the 4th amendment. Wow. apparently questioning the governments abuse of our civil rights is not accepted here. Amazing.

You can always try to convince a judge after refusing to pay the fine you receive.

Walkintom
02-26-2015, 20:09
Don't feed the troll.

Sly
02-26-2015, 21:01
This was the original post in the the thread that was reported by a member (I don't go around looking to close threads, and rarely do, even if reported) and closed by me.


I was just wondering, if anyone felt free to share, how many have thru hiked without obtaining a "permit" through the park areas? Follow up question is, if so, what were your experiences in doing so?

You then went on to say


The question of why not can get wallowed into a long debate. That's why I just stuck to others experiences here. As far as easy to get maybe I am missing something. I planned my thru hike a few years back and couldn't go. This year I am looking up that it is supposed to be done online or by phone. Well that works great if you use a credit card. I don't. Don't believe in the credit system of everyday finance. Which again is not a topic I am attempting to debate. If you can still pay as you enter then yeah I agree it would be easier to get the permit.

It seemed to be you were trying to duck the permit process for thru-hikers without paying, which would be illegal. I suppose you could have asked if there was a legal way to gt through the park without paying...

I pointed out how, as someone that doesn't use a credit card, could easily pay for and get a permit. That may have to do.

Slo-go'en
02-26-2015, 21:07
Oh, but we like feeding trolls.

In the original thread the OP wanted to know if anyone thru hiked the park without a permit because he didn't have a credit card to pay for the permit. I can't find all the payment options available without filling out the permit application form, but I remember there were a number of options.

Probably the easiest is a prepaid card if you don't have a credit card. But I can't imagine anyone in this day and age attempting a thru hike without some kind of plastic money. You should at least have a debit or ATM card.

TNhiker
02-26-2015, 21:13
in the other thread, the OP stated that they didnt want a credit card because of the fees that came with it, which lead to wonder if the cost of the fees exceed the cost of the ticket for being without a permit.......


and, fwiw, 15 years of backpacking in the smokies----believe it was twice that i was asked for permit.....one time was with a large group, the other time was right when i was starting out......


but, on a day hike many a year ago, doing an offtrail route-----i was shook down by rangers.......i consented the search (although next time i wont) for my day pack after i describe the route i had taken.........

they were seeing if i was poaching ginseng or any other plant material........

and i was clean, so i wasnt worried........

rocketsocks
02-26-2015, 21:16
This was the original post in the the thread that was reported by a member (I don't go around looking to close threads, and rarely do, even if reported) and closed by me.



You then went on to say



It seemed to be you were trying to duck the permit process for thru-hikers without paying, which would be illegal. I suppose you could have asked if there was a legal way to gt through the park without paying...

I pointed out how, as someone that doesn't use a credit card, could easily pay for and get a permit. That may have to do.


...that's the way it reads to me.

Starchild
02-26-2015, 21:27
Just to point out, in the Smokies a permit is needed to overnight in a shelter. I met some who traveled by night and sheltered by day to avoid this permit system.

mtntopper
02-26-2015, 21:33
I remember when the gov. shut down awhile back and the National Parks were closed. People were posting how they were going to hike anyway. This would have been illegal. They were discussing illegal activity. White blaze did not close all of those threads.

Speakeasy TN
02-26-2015, 21:34
Exactly. And hiking without a permit is not illegal Speakeasy TN.

But THRU hiking is and that is what you asked about.....

rocketsocks
02-26-2015, 21:36
I remember when the gov. shut down awhile back and the National Parks were closed. People were posting how they were going to hike anyway. This would have been illegal. They were discussing illegal activity. White blaze did not close all of those threads.
Hey, when the government shuts down, all bets are OFF. :D

MuddyWaters
02-26-2015, 21:40
Prepaid visa debit is about $5.95 . A few (vanilla at walgreens) i recall come with PIN so you can get cash from them too, max $500 value on the card.

Malto
02-26-2015, 21:42
Hiking with overnight gear without a permit..is illegal.
So is having fishing gear in a boat, without a fishing license.

Don't buy this at all. On long day hikes I usually take full gear for exactly the reason discussing on the thread about hiker death in the Whites. I have also done a two very long day hikes in the Smokies, full gear. I didn't even give it half a thought nor would I again.

not to split hairs but it actually wouldn't be impossible to hike GSMNP without a permit. Start at Fontana and hike to Newfound Gap. Head to town. Next day return to trail and hike down to Davenport. It's a long, hard 40 mile day but some could do it. (Even easier would be to split at Clingmans. That's only 32, doable for a few more.)

on the subject of "day hiking" the entire GSMNP segment. Didn't Squeaky do that on one of his thru hikes?

CalebJ
02-26-2015, 21:45
Certainly it's been trail run in <24 hours multiple times. IIRC, the record is below 15.

mtntopper
02-26-2015, 21:50
Hiking with overnight gear without a permit..is illegal.
So is having fishing gear in a boat, without a fishing license.

Me either. I don't buy this at all. I have had experiences with both.Nope not so.

Slo-go'en
02-26-2015, 22:12
Hiking with overnight gear might not be illegal, but it is suspicious. Now if your in a shelter and that overnight gear is no longer in the pack, then you'd better have a permit. Chances are good you'll not run into a Ranger (but maybe a ridge runner), but if that shelter is full of people with permits and there is no space for you or you took someones space who shows up late and then they complain, you might be meet by a Ranger down the trail.

Malto
02-26-2015, 22:22
Hiking with overnight gear might not be illegal, but it is suspicious. Now if your in a shelter and that overnight gear is no longer in the pack, then you'd better have a permit. Chances are good you'll not run into a Ranger (but maybe a ridge runner), but if that shelter is full of people with permits and there is no space for you or you took someones space who shows up late and then they complain, you might be meet by a Ranger down the trail.

Ranger will know real quick if you are 20 miles from a trailhead head at 3:00 whether you are truly a "day hiker." If you "day hiking" and end up in a shelter then you better be injured or other emergency.

Sarcasm the elf
02-26-2015, 22:25
Just to point out, in the Smokies a permit is needed to overnight in a shelter. I met some who traveled by night and sheltered by day to avoid this permit system.

Not 100% sure if the rangers would buy that argument, but I think that is absolutely brilliant!

twilight
02-26-2015, 22:31
Am I missing the point here? What's the big deal if a ranger asks if you have a permit or not?

Twilight

Starchild
02-26-2015, 22:38
Not 100% sure if the rangers would buy that argument, but I think that is absolutely brilliant!

As a Ridgerunner for the GSMNP I was advised this was indeed the case. With that said I had no authority to enforce anything. Rangers may or may not have a shoot first and ask questions later attitude. However with that said those rangers who I met (and heard on the radio) while working there were not of that type, and usually very understanding. What I did take away is the biggest offense you can commit in GSMNP is improper food storage, they care very much about their bears.

4eyedbuzzard
02-26-2015, 23:50
True MuddyWaters, just saying the permit they are asking for is a camping permit, which is illegal for them to require if you want to talk illegality. We have the right to travel. If I am not camping I am not even breaking their unconstitutional rules they have made up therefore even in their world I am not committing a crime and am protected by the 4th amendment. Wow. apparently questioning the governments abuse of our civil rights is not accepted here. Amazing.Here's your problem njgramm: The required permit is a "Backcountry Permit", issued by NPS/GSMNP either under an AT thru-hiker version, or a general version, with slightly different restrictions. The purpose is to manage impact on the trail and park lands so that as many people as reasonably possible can enjoy them. NPS is empowered by Congress to make rules and regulations, including individual park regulations under the Park Superintendent. If a ranger who is sworn to uphold the law sees someone hiking along the AT in GSMNP with a pack filled with hiking/camping gear, then they may lawfully demand to have the hiker produce the required permit, because the intent is apparent per se to a reasonable person. The person's right to travel is not being restricted - there are many other routes to travel to a destination that do not pass through the park's backcountry, and the AT is not intended as a means of travel, of routinely getting from one place to another.

You and I and many others have lots of opinions on the intent and meaning of the Constitution and the Amendments, what laws are within that spirit and what ones are not. But only nine of those opinions matter - and yours and mine aren't one of those. You speak of "their world". Well, like it or not, the real world is governed under the rules made in "their world". You can waste a lot of time and energy on semantics, or get on with hiking. Get a prepaid card as suggested if you wish to remain as anonymous as possible. And note that things like "closed under false pretenses" are a pretty frivolous complaint on a private website ;)

2015 Lady Thru-Hiker
02-27-2015, 01:08
Hiking with overnight gear without a permit..is illegal.
So is having fishing gear in a boat, without a fishing license.

Not to stir the pot but I have hiked numerous times with my fully loaded backpack with no intentions of camping. Simply doing it for training purposes. So it would be illegal if I were to do that in the GSMNP?? Even though I never pitch my tent or set up camp??

Never mind. Just saw Malto's response :)

4eyedbuzzard
02-27-2015, 01:23
Not to stir the pot but I have hiked numerous times with my fully loaded backpack with no intentions of camping. Simply doing it for training purposes. So it would be illegal if I were to do that in the GSMNP?? Even though I never pitch my tent or set up camp??A good point, and I've done the same, even setting up camp midday just to try out gear like tarps and such, and then breaking camp and hiking out the same day. I think if you explain that to a ranger - what your intent is, where you are hiking, where your vehicle or lower campsite is, etc., you would probably be fine. They are generally pretty friendly, and like most of us doing our jobs, they aren't looking to create problems (and work) where none exist. But if you start off by questioning their legal authority to see your permit, and tell them that they are violating your 4th amendment rights, I think you are probably asking for an unpleasant encounter. The fishing thing is quite different most places in many ways, as there are laws specifically worded that when on or at a body of water possession of gear itself is evidence of intent to fish. And, as is usual, ignorance of the law is not a defense.

MuddyWaters
02-27-2015, 08:57
Gsmnp At thruhiker permit is required for "0vernight stay" in gsmnp. It does not define that as camping anywhere.

SNP defines camping specifically as any use of shelter or sleeping gear at any time. does not have to be at night.

Yosemite will tell you they will ticket for having overnight gear without wilderness permit.

Parks respond to their individual problems, and tend to clarify their own rules around that. The thruhiker permit is new. Attempt to abuse it by weaseling around it, and those that follow you will surely like the next changes even less. Especially given the rapidly growing numbers, theres more stringent controls looming anyway.

Coffee
02-27-2015, 09:09
When I train in SNP with a full pack, I typically have items that add weight on purpose and would be ridiculous in the context of a real overnight backpacking trip. For example, I might have my bear canister (which I'd never take on a real trip on the AT) filled with old textbooks or sacks of rice. I have enough such ballast that if questioned by a ranger I can show the contents of my pack at which point the ranger will either agree with me or think that I'm insane.

Christoph
02-27-2015, 10:19
I think it all boils down to attitude. If asked to see a permit, just show it and press on. If you're hiking without (as in trail runs), just explain the situation and chances are they wont "harass" you. Use your head.

Connie
02-27-2015, 10:48
There are prepaid credit cards.

I have seen a prepaid credit card at Radio Shack.

I think grocery stores have prepaid credit cards near the prepaid gift cards, like iTunes. I never looked closely, but before PayPal for online purchases I got a prepaid credit card called Green Dot, at Radio Shack.

It is accepted. I would think that would work to purchase a trail permit and make campground reservations.

I think Yosemite makes arrests.

I was asked to be a backcountry ranger at Glacier National Park once. I declined, because it isn't the friendly helpful ranger. It is write tickets. It is be a cop.

That is how the interview was.

RED-DOG
02-27-2015, 11:03
A ranger can stop you any time he/she feels like as long as your on A park Boundary to ask to see your permit whether your hiking or just simply sitting taking a break at a shelter the only places you need a permit is in the GSMNP, SNP, and BSP in these places they can and do ask to see your permit other than these places their is no permit reguired.

Bronk
02-27-2015, 13:32
You could always hike from Fontana Dam to Newfound Gap in a day without camping overnight, but this would be 40 miles. And then you'd have another 30 or so to Davenport Gap. That's quite a feat for someone just beginning a northbound hike. While not impossible, its not a feasible expectation for the vast majority of hikers.

russb
02-27-2015, 15:36
We are all just visitors here. The rules are the forum owner's. He (or via proxy/mod) may interpret, enforce, modify, even violate them at will. It is his house, he can do as he wishes. Your recourse is to leave.

bemental
02-27-2015, 19:14
So, I went to the ATC website, registered and went through that whole rigamorale, and got a very terse letter back with a semi permanent tag in the mail.

Is this what we're taking about?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/fdf98c9a7a8648c29ee03d227eacf61a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/1d2a9e84fcfc889fbee3e7542b4d7876.jpg

So, do I hang this from my pack or what?

CalebJ
02-27-2015, 19:21
Registered for what? I'm not at all clear how your post relates to this thread.

Coffee
02-27-2015, 19:51
ATC registration is optional this year. GSMNP thru hiker permit is mandatory. The latter is what this thread appears to be about, mostly.

Lauriep
02-27-2015, 19:58
So, I went to the ATC website, registered and went through that whole rigamorale, and got a very terse letter back with a semi permanent tag in the mail.

Is this what we're taking about?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/fdf98c9a7a8648c29ee03d227eacf61a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/1d2a9e84fcfc889fbee3e7542b4d7876.jpg

So, do I hang this from my pack or what?


Laurie Potteiger from ATC here. I'm on the team of staff, volunteers, and agency partners that developed the voluntary thru-hiker registration system.

Can you elaborate on why you described the letter as "terse"? What would you have liked to see in the letter instead?

Also, would you have liked a more detailed explanation of the hangtag? We thought its purpose would be self-evident, but apparently not.

This first year is a pilot--a trial run to find out what works that is helpful to both hikers and the A.T. Our goal is to make the system as easy and useful to hikers as possible, so that as many as possible participate.

We do want feedback so we can make any needed improvements for next year, when we expect the numbers to increase significantly, after the movie A Walk in the Woods comes out. It is our goal for the voluntary registration to be as effective as possible so that further regulation is not needed even as numbers increase. People have said they are afraid that a voluntary system will lead to increased regulation, but there is not precedent for that in the 90 years that ATC has been building and managing the A.T., that I know of.

Lone Wolf
02-27-2015, 19:59
So, I went to the ATC website, registered and went through that whole rigamorale, and got a very terse letter back with a semi permanent tag in the mail.

Is this what we're taking about?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/fdf98c9a7a8648c29ee03d227eacf61a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/1d2a9e84fcfc889fbee3e7542b4d7876.jpg

So, do I hang this from my pack or what?that entitles you to nothing. it's just extra baggage

Lone Wolf
02-27-2015, 19:59
So, I went to the ATC website, registered and went through that whole rigamorale, and got a very terse letter back with a semi permanent tag in the mail.

Is this what we're taking about?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/fdf98c9a7a8648c29ee03d227eacf61a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/1d2a9e84fcfc889fbee3e7542b4d7876.jpg

So, do I hang this from my pack or what?that entitles you to nothing. it's just extra baggage

Malto
02-27-2015, 21:29
that entitles you to nothing. it's just extra baggage

So it's an extra baggage tag!!!!!

Lone Wolf
02-27-2015, 21:36
:)...................

bemental
02-27-2015, 23:29
Laurie Potteiger from ATC here. I'm on the team of staff, volunteers, and agency partners that developed the voluntary thru-hiker registration system.

Can you elaborate on why you described the letter as "terse"? What would you have liked to see in the letter instead?

Also, would you have liked a more detailed explanation of the hangtag? We thought its purpose would be self-evident, but apparently not.

This first year is a pilot--a trial run to find out what works that is helpful to both hikers and the A.T. Our goal is to make the system as easy and useful to hikers as possible, so that as many as possible participate.

We do want feedback so we can make any needed improvements for next year, when we expect the numbers to increase significantly, after the movie A Walk in the Woods comes out. It is our goal for the voluntary registration to be as effective as possible so that further regulation is not needed even as numbers increase. People have said they are afraid that a voluntary system will lead to increased regulation, but there is not precedent for that in the 90 years that ATC has been building and managing the A.T., that I know of.

Hi Laurie!

I signed up on a whim, didn't know that this was the first year for the program.

As regards to the letter, it was, well - terse. No letterhead, no explanation of the program (perhaps the purpose, benefits, etc.). The 5 W's would have helped a lot.

Yeah, and the luggage tag... purpose and intention behind it would be great!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/8dc9d0ce5dfda3fe2b5bcf1a0ed07dda.jpg

T-Rx
02-28-2015, 00:06
Hi Laurie!

I signed up on a whim, didn't know that this was the first year for the program.

As regards to the letter, it was, well - terse. No letterhead, no explanation of the program (perhaps the purpose, benefits, etc.). The 5 W's would have helped a lot.

Yeah, and the luggage tag... purpose and intention behind it would be great!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/8dc9d0ce5dfda3fe2b5bcf1a0ed07dda.jpg

Different strokes for different folks but If you consider this response terse, how do you ever survive in the world without getting your "feelings hurt" routinely???? Laurie P. Has been nothing but helpful to hikers! Not looking for an argument just my thoughts and my $.02 worth.

Sarcasm the elf
02-28-2015, 00:22
Different strokes for different folks but If you consider this response terse, how do you ever survive in the world without getting your "feelings hurt" routinely???? Laurie P. Has been nothing but helpful to hikers! Not looking for an argument just my thoughts and my $.02 worth.
I thought the same as you at first, but then I plugged the word Terse into google, here is what I got:

terse
tərs/
adjective



sparing in the use of words; abrupt.
"a terse statement"








I usually associate the word terse with a negative connotation. But stripped of that tone, it is technically an accurate description of the letter.

bemental
02-28-2015, 01:04
Different strokes for different folks but If you consider this response terse, how do you ever survive in the world without getting your "feelings hurt" routinely???? Laurie P. Has been nothing but helpful to hikers! Not looking for an argument just my thoughts and my $.02 worth.


I thought the same as you at first, but then I plugged the word Terse into google, here is what I got:

terse
tərs/
adjective



sparing in the use of words; abrupt.
"a terse statement"








I usually associate the word terse with a negative connotation. But stripped of that tone, it is technically an accurate description of the letter.

Thanks Elf; and no Rex, there was no negativity intended.

And I appreciate you looking up the definition on my behalf, might have made me look like a doucher if I did it myself.

Lone Wolf
02-28-2015, 02:07
it's pithy

gollwoods
02-28-2015, 02:09
Flowery prose

rocketsocks
02-28-2015, 02:22
Flowery prose
did you mean lack there of?

Coffee
02-28-2015, 07:52
I like the letter. Straight forward and to the point.

10-K
02-28-2015, 08:14
Laurie - have you all had a look at the PCT long distance hiker permit? No need to reinvent the wheel.

T-Rx
02-28-2015, 08:41
it's pithy

I agree LW. Technically the definition may not reflect negativity but I thought the intent was as stated here. I apologize if I misjudged your intent bemental.

bemental
02-28-2015, 08:45
No worries, if I got offended easily I'd stay off the Internet :-P

Thanks for understanding!

Tundracamper
02-28-2015, 08:56
At least you didn't pay anything for that tag - so you shouldn't be too disappointed in what you got.

bemental
02-28-2015, 09:00
At least you didn't pay anything for that tag - so you shouldn't be too disappointed in what you got.

I know, right?

But the ATC *did*. I'm just curious as to what it's for. I'm sure Laurie will get back to us.

I'll dig around the ATC website as well.

bemental
02-28-2015, 09:02
WHAT ARE YOUR BENEFITS WHEN YOU REGISTER?

Voluntary registration allows you to:
-Help reduce crowded GA conditions for you and others during the peak start period (March 1-April 15)
-Receive information to help improve your experience

Receive special bonuses:
-Your Trail Name (if you provide it) listed at appalachiantrail.org
-Commemorative 2015 A.T. LNT tag you can hang from your pack, with Official 2015 A.T. length (mailed to you - may take two weeks to reach your address)
-Free electronic ATC membership
-ATC Member discount at ATC’s Ultimate Trail Store
-Personal satisfaction of knowing that you are helping preserve the A.T.’s natural environment
-Provide the ATC with data on the number of hikers starting in Georgia each day to help improve support for the trail.
-Enable ATC to better understand what factors lead to successful thru-hikes and pass that on to others.


http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/thru-hike-registration/frequently-asked-questions

bemental
02-28-2015, 09:03
Looks like it's all there if you just read the instructions :-/

Coffee
02-28-2015, 09:19
Seems to me that people registering are getting more than they should expect including a free electronic membership including member discounts? Many of us pay for the same benefits! Some people will complain about everything.

bemental
02-28-2015, 19:13
Coffee, who's complaining?

I still have no idea what I signed up for. I merely found out the ATC was doing a trial run of a registration system and am genuinely confused as to the purpose and benefits.

No one's complaining about 'the getting', we're merely commenting on the process.

Coffee
02-28-2015, 19:15
Sounded like a complaint to me but it doesn't really matter to me. It's all very clear from reading the website.

Rain Man
02-28-2015, 20:05
My thread was closed ...?


3. Topics that have been closed, deleted, or moved by an Administrator or Moderator have been done for a reason. Users will not open new threads on the same subject or continue to make posts about subjects that have had these actions taken. Failing to comply with this policy can result in being placed into moderated status.

Seems you have quite a problem abiding by the terms you agreed to to be a part of our community. First you asked about doing illegal activity. Then you posted another thread on the same topic. Seems the mods have bent over backwards to tolerate the several chips you have on your shoulder.

Make the best of their graciousness would be my advice.

Tundracamper
02-28-2015, 23:12
WHAT ARE YOUR BENEFITS WHEN YOU REGISTER?

Voluntary registration allows you to:
-Help reduce crowded GA conditions for you and others during the peak start period (March 1-April 15)
-Receive information to help improve your experience

Receive special bonuses:
-Your Trail Name (if you provide it) listed at appalachiantrail.org
-Commemorative 2015 A.T. LNT tag you can hang from your pack, with Official 2015 A.T. length (mailed to you - may take two weeks to reach your address)
-Free electronic ATC membership
-ATC Member discount at ATC’s Ultimate Trail Store
-Personal satisfaction of knowing that you are helping preserve the A.T.’s natural environment


Except for the discount, those aren't very quantifiable benefits. "Personal satisfaction" and "receive information" are pretty vague.

mtntopper
02-28-2015, 23:28
Seems you have quite a problem abiding by the terms you agreed to to be a part of our community. First you asked about doing illegal activity. Then you posted another thread on the same topic. Seems the mods have bent over backwards to tolerate the several chips you have on your shoulder.

Make the best of their graciousness would be my advice.

Maybe Whiteblaze should treat all posters the same!!!! I am sure that You do know that they don't!

bemental
03-01-2015, 10:26
Maybe Whiteblaze should treat all posters the same!!!! I am sure that You do know that they don't!

Topper, I'm not sure exactly what world you live in, but in reality everyone is not the same.

I can't speak for the moderators, or your situation, but in life(?): people typically get treatment, within the letter of the law, according to how they act.

Praise in public, reprimand in private.

mtntopper
03-01-2015, 11:38
Topper, I'm not sure exactly what world you live in, but in reality everyone is not the same.

I can't speak for the moderators, or your situation, but in life(?): people typically get treatment, within the letter of the law, according to how they act.

Praise in public, reprimand in private.

My comment has to do with TOS of white blaze. Some posters get by with talking about illegal activity on here without their thread being closed while others get theirs closed. Is this not what this thread is about? I realize that everyone is not the same. I don't have a situation. I am not speaking about the letter of the law. I am not seeking praise nor am I seeking reprimand. This has to do with Whiteblaze TOS. They own the sight they can do what they please. The OP has a point about his post that was closed. I stand by my comments and I don't intend to defend any further. Just maybe you would be wise to check the world that you live in. Just sayin.........

4eyedbuzzard
03-01-2015, 12:14
My comment has to do with TOS of white blaze. Some posters get by with talking about illegal activity on here without their thread being closed while others get theirs closed. Is this not what this thread is about? I realize that everyone is not the same. I don't have a situation. I am not speaking about the letter of the law. I am not seeking praise nor am I seeking reprimand. This has to do with Whiteblaze TOS. They own the sight they can do what they please. The OP has a point about his post that was closed. I stand by my comments and I don't intend to defend any further. Just maybe you would be wise to check the world that you live in. Just sayin.........
Well, having been a mod in the past, things do fall through the cracks at times, and judgments as to what is and what isn't within the TOS can vary, just as strike call in baseball - "Yesterday it was a ball, and tomorrow it may be a ball - but today it is a strike." The different forums aren't moderated by the same person, especially from day to day or even hour to hour, and there are often multiple mods for a big forum. And you never know which mod, if any, is keeping up with all the posts (this is a very active website). Reported posts tend to get much quicker attention as automatic emails to mods are generated. The mods can talk to one another on a hidden board, so often the decision is a consensus one, particularly in borderline calls - "Hey, what do think about this?" But, sometimes you just have to make a quick call yourself based on gut feeling. As you note, the overall record of the member may have some bearing on how it all goes down as well, but I've seen some of the most prolific and even some very polite members called out, put in time out, and even banned. And yeah, some of these people even have personal relationships that extend beyond this website. It isn't perfect, because humans are involved. But it's a thankless "job", and the mods really do try to be fair.

As to the OP, discussing illegal activities (like stealth camping above treeline in the Whites, or smuggling dogs into Baxter, or in this case avoiding getting GSMNP permits), even when shrouded by oblique wording, is simply not allowed, likely for reputation, liability, and just plain old ethical reasons. So, in this case, the right call was probably made, regardless of whether or not someone else didn't "get a ticket" in the past.

mtntopper
03-01-2015, 12:34
Well, having been a mod in the past, things do fall through the cracks at times, and judgments as to what is and what isn't within the TOS can vary, just as strike call in baseball - "Yesterday it was a ball, and tomorrow it may be a ball - but today it is a strike." The different forums aren't moderated by the same person, especially from day to day or even hour to hour, and there are often multiple mods for a big forum. And you never know which mod, if any, is keeping up with all the posts (this is a very active website). Reported posts tend to get much quicker attention as automatic emails to mods are generated. The mods can talk to one another on a hidden board, so often the decision is a consensus one, particularly in borderline calls - "Hey, what do think about this?" But, sometimes you just have to make a quick call yourself based on gut feeling. As you note, the overall record of the member may have some bearing on how it all goes down as well, but I've seen some of the most prolific and even some very polite members called out, put in time out, and even banned. And yeah, some of these people even have personal relationships that extend beyond this website. It isn't perfect, because humans are involved. But it's a thankless "job", and the mods really do try to be fair.

As to the OP, discussing illegal activities (like stealth camping above treeline in the Whites, or smuggling dogs into Baxter, or in this case avoiding getting GSMNP permits), even when shrouded by oblique wording, is simply not allowed, likely for reputation, liability, and just plain old ethical reasons. So, in this case, the right call was probably made, regardless of whether or not someone else didn't "get a ticket" in the past.

I do agree that the right call was made according to TOS. That is not in question as far as I am concerned. What I questioned and you answered it perfectly is other post that discuss illegal activity are not closed. Thank you for the explanation and your work as a mod in the past. I do hope that going forward that the current mods will be more consistent with their rulings.

Captain Bluebird
03-02-2015, 15:02
True MuddyWaters, just saying the permit they are asking for is a camping permit, which is illegal for them to require if you want to talk illegality. We have the right to travel. If I am not camping I am not even breaking their unconstitutional rules they have made up therefore even in their world I am not committing a crime and am protected by the 4th amendment. Wow. apparently questioning the governments abuse of our civil rights is not accepted here. Amazing. A healthy discussion is always welcomed. You just don't realize that you are not in sync with the vast majority of the posters on this site. The majority of us are out on the AT for its beauty, seclusion, etc. I appreciate the dedicated Rangers out on the trails to help enforce a positive experience for all of us...

Mags
03-02-2015, 15:41
A Smokies permit is twenty dollars. At minimum wage in Indiana, you could earn that fee in three hours. Call it, four hours if you get a pre-paid credit card as has been suggested.

I suspect you've spent more than 3-4 hours discussing it already. :)

4eyedbuzzard
03-02-2015, 17:35
30127

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full conditions
03-02-2015, 17:42
30127

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LOL. Very nice sir.