Qulit Purchase

[Gray Bear]

I've been shopping around for a 30 deg quilt and I'm getting very close to pulling the trigger on the Enlightened Equipment Revelation based on weight/cost/customer servise. Is there anything else I should be looking at that is compairable?

[Just Bill]

Zpacks, and the hammock hangers will tell you some others...

EE stuff is pretty durn good though. Between Zpacks and EE pretty well comes down to features and price. Zpacks only sells 900FP, Tim at EE sells a few different fills to fit your budget.

[gbolt]

Gray Bear, EE are great quilts but I would not pull the trigger until you check Hammock Gear's Website. HG in Lancaster, Ohio is turning out top of the line quilts at the lightest weight with new Argon Materials and great quality down. They are a cottage shop, husband/wife original team that has grown over the last few years. Each piece is truly handcrafted and a piece of art.

I have not pulled the trigger yet as well, but I am already swayed to at least one TQ from HG. You will be happy with EE but HG desearves serious consideration and research to avoid possible buyer regret later.

[Frye]

It's going to be hard to beat one of Tim's quilts. I have an Enigma elite which I'm totally in love with. I've heard great things about the Zpacks quilts but I felt like I was getting a better deal going with EE. (They edged out Zpacks on the amount of 900fp down by .6oz while having the same total weight) Super comfy fabric also!

That said, I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a new summer quilt and I'm considering buying it from mid-atlanticmountainworks. I don't know much about them, but I have heard a few positive reviews so I figured I'd throw some cash their way. It'll probably have to wait until I return from my thru though.

[Connie]

I followed the story of quilts starting with the Suluk46 YouTube video to EnLightened Equipment at BPL Forum, asking questions to make my own and getting answers from EE maker Tim Marshall.

The purchase price was daunting.

I also asked many questions of Stormcrow at Hammock Forum and got answers: I admired so many quilts I found out existed because of Hammock Forum.

The purchase price was daunting.

I decided it was time to go from homemade to high-end quality. I knew what was available. I had the cash on hand. I sprung for argon fabric and great price for the Hammock Gear Burrow 20.

I admit I was concerned about the 850-fill down and the water-treated down. The fact is I really could not tell the difference comparing that to my Brooks-Range 900-fill "elephant foot" half bag, in fact, overall it felt nicer. I attribute that to the fabric.

In fact, the Hammock Gear Burrow 20 was superior in every way: the argon fabric and 850-fill water-treated down floated on me and it feels warmer than it should. It is an amazing effect.

The fabric and the down compliment each other.

It is significant to not have to heat up air gaps inside a down sleeping bag. This Hammock Gear sleeping quilt has no air gaps because it nestles around me on all sides it touches. The image I am trying to convey is a baby chick tucked under its mother. My XTherm completes this protective sleep system. I am in the protective warm nest.

I got the Titanium Goat Bug Bivy with "bathtub" floor to keep it all tucked around me, that and I have always liked a bug bivy included in my sleep system.

I suppose I could have just said: the argon fabric and this 850-fill down Hammock Gear provided is really special.

But then, how would you know what I have been trying to communicate?

EE and HG are great choices. Want to know all the other ones? There are more.

Frye said, "Super comfy fabric." Tough choice!

[Gray Bear]

I followed the story of quilts starting with the Suluk46 YouTube video to EnLightened Equipment at BPL Forum, asking questions to make my own and getting answers from EE maker Tim Marshall.

The purchase price was daunting.

I also asked many questions of Stormcrow at Hammock Forum and got answers: I admired so many quilts I found out existed because of Hammock Forum.

The purchase price was daunting.

I decided it was time to go from homemade to high-end quality. I knew what was available. I had the cash on hand. I sprung for argon fabric and great price for the Hammock Gear Burrow 20.

I admit I was concerned about the 850-fill down and the water-treated down. The fact is I really could not tell the difference comparing that to my Brooks-Range 900-fill "elephant foot" half bag, in fact, overall it felt nicer.

In fact, the Hammock Gear Burrow 20 was superior in every way: the argon fabric and 850-fill water-treated down floated on me and it feels warmer than it should. It is an amazing effect.

The fabric and the down compliment each other.

It is significant to not have to heat up air gaps inside a down sleeping bag. This Hammock Gear sleeping quilt has no air gaps because it nestles around me on all sides it touches. The image I am trying to convey is a baby chick tucked under its mother. My XTherm completes this protective sleep system. I am in the protective warm nest.

I got the Titanium Goat Bug Bivy with "bathtub" floor to keep it all tucked around me, that and I have always liked a bug bivy included in my sleep system.

I suppose I could have just said: the argon fabric and this 850-fill down Hammock Gear provided is really special.

But then, how would you know what I have been trying to communicate?

EE and HG are great choices. Want to know all the other ones? There are more.

Frye said, "Super comfy fabric." Tough choice!

Wow! you should be in advertising! ;)

I really don't know anything about Argon so I guess I'm going to have to read up a bit before I purchase.

my understanding on the 850 vs 900 is that the 900 compresses a bit better and is a bit lighter but is it worth the extra $$?

I checked out the HG site last night and sent an email with a few questions. They have 20 and 40 degree quilts but since I have a 20 deg WM Alpinlite that I'm VERY fond of I was looking at the 30 deg quilts. I don't really want to go any lighter than that with a quilt. When I ordered my WM bag I got the 2 oz. over fill and the guy I spoke with said that would basically give me a 17 deg bag with enough room to wear some more down when temps go south of that. Realistically I don't get out much in the winter but I love the late fall and in NH the forecast can change pretty drastically over the course of a 3-4 day trip so I'd rather have a little more bag than I'm going to need. My WM gets a little too toasty above 40 so my thought was a 30 deg quilt and some good sleepwear should be pretty cozy down to 40 pretty easy and with the ability to vent the warmer nights wouldn't be too bad either. The question is can HG get me into a 30 deg quilt for the same money as the EE Revelation. Obviously if better and more expensive materials are are used (Argon and 900 fill) then it would be a bit more.

[gbolt]

Gray Beard,

Connie did a great job discussing the Pro's of Argon. You also are making a great case for a 30 degree quilt. However, HG goes 20* to 40* for a reason. Quilts cover a range and venting the bottom of the quilt increasses the range even more. Your WM doesn't allow this. If you truly want a 30* quilt (as many hangers do because they go 0* versus 20*) then talk to HG about the 2 oz overfill to bring it down to 30*. Argon is truly a major componant to weight, feel, and insulation. I have found HG's prices to be the most competitive around. However, if you want to add one more company to the mix, UGQ in Michigan is also using argon, great down, and quality workmanship.

Also, Just Bill gave great advice with Zpacks. I missed the fact that you were sold on 900 fill versus 850. To me, a 30* versus a O* or really stretching the bottom temp of a 20* needs to be greatly researched and may be worth the cost of Zpacks and EE. However, with a 30* and already owning a WM, I would go with the lower fill.

Cool discussion for sure!

[Connie]

I cannot compare EE and HG because I don't have EE.

The 900-fill fluffs more, however, I could not notice the difference between the Hammock Gear Burrow 20 850-fill and the Brooks-Range Elephant Foot 900-fill.

I have both.

I attribute that to the fabric. However, down is sourced from different suppliers, etc. It is entirely true one sourced down is better than another. For that reason, I can't tell you so-in-so has the best down. That is where you have to rely on all the information you can gather, and then, hope for the best outcome.

In my instance, I am delighted with Hammock Gear 850-fill down in argon fabric compared to my Brooks-Range 900-fill Elephant Foot 20D shell fabric treated with silicone.

[That is not to say I am disappointed with my Brooks-Range Elephant Foot: different purpose.]

I will say, a hard-faced fabric feels cold to the touch in really cold weather. I wish all sleeping bag manufacturers would use a soft-face fabric on the inside surface of the sleeping bag, for that reason. If I touch the hard-face fabric with bare skin in really cold weather, the cold knifes right thru me.

[Connie]

gbolt, a little dyslexic?

More down of the same down-fill rating as "down overfill" = lower temperatures.

[Connie]

HG, EE, and UGQ are using 10D fabric.

[There had been a 7D fabric, TiGoat used in a bivy.]

[Connie]

It is tough to compare top-of-the-line HG, EE, UGQ, Z-Packs, JacksRBetter

I would add Arrowhead-Equipment to that list.

Any others?

Top grade materials. Exquisite stitching. Excellent features. Excellent design.

Insulation choices. Fabric choices.

Tough choice!

[Gray Bear]

Thanks for all the great input. some good info.

I'm very interested in the Argon. It sounds like great stuff. it sounds like is may be a bit more durable than the 10D from EE although they do offer a 20D as well. The comfort level is a huge factor as well. It seems as though it may be more resistant to moisture as well. The only thing I'm wondering about is that its a fairly new fabric. Hopefully if will live up to the claimed durability.

As far a down fill goes Connie makes some great points. Who sources what from where could be a subject for debate I guess. I wonder what it would look like if you compared an oz of 850 from WM, EE, HG and UGQ. I'm not sure I would spend the extra $$ for 900 but 850 looks like a safe middle of the road call It looks like EE give the option of treated or untreated 800. HG uses treated 850 and UGQ uses either 800 or 850 untreated as far as I can tell.

I'd like to see the weight on the Burro 40 reg/wide + 2 oz over fill. My guess is that would make it something like a 35* quilt making it about 5* cooler than the EE 30 and another $17. For that you would get a little better compression and a more comfortable material. Man it nice to have some many high quality options but this is a lot to sort out!

[Gray Bear]

Man now I have to go check out JRB and ZPacks! Thanks Connie! there goes my afternoon.

could be worse......SSShhhhhhhhhhh! dont tell anyone but Im at work pulling OT doing quilt research LOL!

[Connie]

The 10D fabrics are new, all new.

However, they were tested before brought out.

[Just Bill]

Fabrics-
Argon .67 is nice enough stuff, a bit cheaper but still good quality. It does dimple a hair with washings, but that is more of a cosmetic than any real issue. Dutch is selling an Argon Taffeta that feels more like M50, but M50 has the best DWR. Personally I don't notice the ripstop in the regular Argon fabric at all so any comfort benefit is minimal or non-existent for me and I'd rather have the ripstop grid.
M50 (thru-hiker) is probably the nicest of these fabrics but pricier and occasionally hard to find in production models.
Not sure exactly what Tim and Joe use- but their shells are just fine too and very similar.

Down-
Mainly a financial choice IMO when talking 900vs850. My personal view is 850 is plenty. In making my own down stuff the last year or so I have found that in a higher loft sleeping piece that the weight savings is minimal. Enlightened's spec sheets provide a great way to compare the fills apples to apples. The 30 degree Revelation you were looking at for example is $50 more to save .62 ounces (in Regular/Regular)

I also find that 900 fill is a hair more moisture sensitive (potentially negating the benefits after a few days on the trail) and takes more time to loft fully. For me, the jump from 750 to 850 is much more valuable than the jump from 850 to 900. I think 850 is the best mix of real life performance, weight, cost.

FWIW- so far I have not been a fan of the treated downs. I notice that Zpacks no longer offers them as the stock fill. In handling both while making quilts I noticed the treated is a bit sticky. It takes more effort to loft. Regular down fluffs with a quick shake while I find myself having to break clumps by hand with the treated. This is very apparent when stuffing the down. A few shakes will spread the regular, but I needed nearly 2 hours in the dryer with tennis balls to full distribute the treated down.

[Frye]

I gotta make this quick, the Maryland game is coming on.

Just my two cents, but after many hours of comparing the different companies and their products I came away feeling EE was just a bit better. Not to take anything away from HG or Zpacks, they're both great companies and make fine products, I just found EE to be of slightly better quality when looking into it.

I played around with quilts from all 3 companies (and a few other bags also) over the course of a few months. Mostly just hounding buddies to let me check out their gear in order to avoid making unnecessary purchases.

Price, HG has both Zpacks and EE beat. No denying that.

Feel. The fabrics used all felt fine, I'm not even sure I could notice a real difference, but I came away feeling the fabrics used by EE were the best. It could have been in my head though.

Down. IMO a down bag should be one of your longest lasting pieces of gear. That said, I see no reason not to go for the best within your price range. 900fp might only be marginally better than 850fp but it's still the better of the two. Also the 900fp down used by Enlightened Equipment to the best of my knowledge is responsibly sourced. I didn't see anything about where the down for HG quilts comes from on their website (couldn't be bothered to ask) and I never tried checking with Zpacks.

I also ended up comparing quilts by using the specs posted on each of their websites, which was not as easy as it sounds as the sizing varies from company to company. Once again I came away feeling as though EE was the slight favorite. (For various reasons, and if asked I'll elaborate, but the UM game is on and I gots to go!)

No matter what you can't make a bad choice going with any of these 3 companies. If you want a great bag at a decent price, go HG. Want a quilt with coverage more on par with a sleeping bag, go Zpacks. My preference just happened to be EE.

[MuddyWaters]

Buying a quilt that footbox doesnt vent, negates a lot of the advantages

Plan on a quilt rated 10F lower than a bag you would use in comparable conditions, IMO

I think Hammock Gear offers the best deal today.

[Frye]

Buying a quilt that footbox doesnt vent, negates a lot of the advantages

Plan on a quilt rated 10F lower than a bag you would use in comparable conditions, IMO

I think Hammock Gear offers the best deal today.

I've heard other people say they feel the same way, but I just don't agree in the least.

I don't care if it's a quilt or a bag, if it's rated at 30, it should be good down to at least 30. I have a EE quilt rated at 30 which I've happily had down in the low 20's with just my typical silkweights on and in the teens with light down. No problems.

This industry is plagued in some regards by a terrible set of standards, and people just seem to accept it. The good news is that we have a few folks out there running their business right and making products that live up to their claims.

Also, the main advantage of a quilt is not that you can vent the footbox. It's an advantage for the quilts that are designed this way, but not a huge one.

[Connie]

Just Bill,
FWIW- so far I have not been a fan of the treated downs. I notice that Zpacks no longer offers them as the stock fill. In handling both while making quilts I noticed the treated is a bit sticky. It takes more effort to loft. Regular down fluffs with a quick shake while I find myself having to break clumps by hand with the treated. This is very apparent when stuffing the down. A few shakes will spread the regular, but I needed nearly 2 hours in the dryer with tennis balls to full distribute the treated down.

Afterward, was the treated down still more effort to fluff?

I did not have that experience, although it was not so self-inflating" as the untreated 900-fill Brooks-Range down.

It does fluff.

There are no "clumps" holding together.

I would add, to what you said, if the only down you have experienced is 650-fill down, that jump up to 850-fill or 900-fill is more impressive.

In addition, I would think these 10D fabric selections would snuggle around you: the experience would be very much like covering up with a warm cloud.

[Nodust]

It is tough to compare top-of-the-line HG, EE, UGQ, Z-Packs, JacksRBetter

I would add Arrowhead-Equipment to that list.

Any others?

Top grade materials. Exquisite stitching. Excellent features. Excellent design.

Insulation choices. Fabric choices.

Tough choice!

I have quilts by Wilderness Logics and Warbonnet. Both are great quality also. Just as good as my HG and Jack R Better quilts. It is tough to tell which one is better. My Wilderness Logics top quilts have kept me warm at 24°F with just merino base layers on.

[Just Bill]

Just Bill,

Afterward, was the treated down still more effort to fluff?

I did not have that experience, although it was not so self-inflating" as the untreated 900-fill Brooks-Range down.

It does fluff.

There are no "clumps" holding together.

I would add, to what you said, if the only down you have experienced is 650-fill down, that jump up to 850-fill or 900-fill is more impressive.

In addition, I would think these 10D fabric selections would snuggle around you: the experience would be very much like covering up with a warm cloud.

The initial fluff was very bad. When I stuff down I still do it the old fashioned way by weighing then making a "snowball" to stuff. Many people will tell you what a nightmare regular down is and how it ends up everywhere if you aren't careful. It's true more or less.

As a contrast- the treated stuff was very easy to work with in that regard and I hardly lost a cluster. It sticks to itself and doesn't float around the room unless you are very sloppy with it, and even then it doesn't go far.

When I'm all done and the bags are stitched up; Apples to Apples with 850 fill and similar bag construction-
The regular stuff took four or five good shakes and it was done. Snowballs busted and chambers filled.
The treated stuff took some hand busting, and several runs in the dryer with tennis balls to bust the clumps.

Overall- Performance seemed to be about 50FP lower when it was all said and done. Getting max loft again after stuffing the bag proved more work with the treated stuff.

That said- we're only talking a few bags on my end.
But I do note that Western Mountaineering still hasn't bought in, and Zpacks recent change back to regular is interesting as well. I also question a bit of the marketing. Wetting out down, despite general advice is a bit tricky in real life conditions and there are decades of proven use of regular down by careful and experienced users that back up using untreated down. I think a good shell does as much if not more for your money IMO.

It is basically free relative to the cost of the bag to use treated, and if you are selecting your bag 10-20 degrees beyond expected temps and going with a general "better safe than sorry approach" then the difference is probably minimal. If you are trying to push the limits a bit and get every gram of warmth out... then it's a decent point to ponder.

[Gray Bear]

I've heard other people say they feel the same way, but I just don't agree in the least.

I don't care if it's a quilt or a bag, if it's rated at 30, it should be good down to at least 30. I have a EE quilt rated at 30 which I've happily had down in the low 20's with just my typical silkweights on and in the teens with light down. No problems.

This industry is plagued in some regards by a terrible set of standards, and people just seem to accept it. The good news is that we have a few folks out there running their business right and making products that live up to their claims.

Also, the main advantage of a quilt is not that you can vent the footbox. It's an advantage for the quilts that are designed this way, but not a huge one.

This is what I was hoping to hear. would you consider yourself a warm sleeper?

[Gray Bear]

I'm looking at the $85 difference to go from 800 to850 in the EE Rev 30* Is it worth it? My WM Alpinlite is 850 I'm not sure what the fabric is but I Love this bag.

[Frye]

This is what I was hoping to hear. would you consider yourself a warm sleeper?

I wouldn't say one way or the other. I'm probably about average. In the morning if 2 people say they slept cold, and 2 say they slept warm, I'm likely to be with the 4 who said they slept comfortable.

I do know I don't slept warm though, I've owned some crap bags which didn't keep me kosher down to their comfort rating.

I honestly think you can't go wrong with any of the 3 aforementioned companies. EE is just my preference.

@Bill, I think drydown is overhyped without a doubt. When it gets good and wet it works as well as any other down would that's untreated. Where I think it shines is its resistance to humidity. I live in the mid-Atlantic region, a notoriously humid area, and I have noticed a difference from the bags of yore. (Hah! 'yore' Saying that made me giggle.)

[Frye]

I'm looking at the $85 difference to go from 800 to850 in the EE Rev 30* Is it worth it? My WM Alpinlite is 850 I'm not sure what the fabric is but I Love this bag.

A down bag that's treated right should last a very long time. If you can afford it than I can see no reason not to purchase the higher quality of the two. Personally I just don't believe on skimping with something I plan on keeping in rotation for 10 years or more.

[Just Bill]

RE- brands-
All companies mentioned make good gear. The only caution if you are looking for the "best" and weight is a concern I would mention is Hammock vs Ground companies. While this is a very general statement: Companies with a hammock background don't chase weight and efficiency as diligently as ground companies.
Zpacks basically sells a slim cut mummy without a hood. EE sells very efficient quilts developed by Tim over several years during the "height" of BPL.
Quality is good on all, but the companies with background in their respective specialties tend to meet these needs more efficiently.

RE- Footbox
The main (and only really) advantage of a quilt is a larger temperature range from a given bag. If you know what temps you will expect- generally speaking typical weeklong or less hiker can do better with a mummy bag for a given rating- weight is pretty similar- especially if you add in the hats or extra clothes, or bump in rating (for drafts) typically used by a quilt user. In addition if you only own one piece of sleeping gear- a quilt is a better choice. The reason the quilt has become so popular is that over a season (or long distance hike) you have better control of your sleep temps.

The footbox style is what makes this work- there are three types. Each giving more flexibility and a wider range of comfortable sleep.
Sewn shut/Full footbox- basically a mummy bag. Lightest and most efficient for a specific temp.
Sewn side/Drawcord end- in the middle of efficiency/warmth.
Full open- while you can close this up completely- it is generally a few degrees cooler for a given rating because of drafts. It weighs a hair more as well. But you can blow the bag wide open when needed.

A full open footbox quilt can easily have a thirty degree or more temp rating swing. So on a long hike or three season bag- one bag will generally do ya.
Most of us eventually own:
A mummy in a 10-20* rating for really cold temps.
A good 30* or so (some go 20) that can be vented comfortably and used into the 50-60* range. Footbox style lets you push that (full sewn goes to the lower end, full open caters to the higher temps.) Some folks can use a full open bag into the 60's or seventies.
Generally though someplace around 55+, most give up and get a summer quilt in the 40-50* range.

RE-rating-
Unfortunately none of the cottage guys (and even some of the smaller mainstream companies) cannot afford EN ratings. So there is always some wiggle room. Generally speaking hammock guys are very conservative.
EE is pretty conservative.
Zpacks is about right.

But I do agree with the general comment- If you buy a 20* it should be a 20*. Unfortunately my 20 is not your 20.
One check- what is your thermostat set to at home? Say it's 70*
If you're a neutral sleeper- you can sleep with a light layer of clothes on or a sheet.
If you can fall asleep naked and not wake up- you're a warm sleeper- figure 10* higher.
If you can't fall asleep (or stay asleep) without a blanket or combo of clothes and sheet- you're a cold sleeper- figure 10* lower.
If you bundle up in bed with heavy blankets and don't give a crap about weight versus comfy sleep- then don't mess around when it's chilly out.

Waking up sweating isn't good either- so don't go overboard. :)

[CCCCAT]

This is all really helpful and timely. I was just on the verge of trying to decide between a sleeping bag and quilt. I'm inclined to go the quilt route. It looks like many of these companies do custom quilts. I hadn't considered that was something I'd have to allow for. My AT start is end of April (in VA). Are there other recommended companies that pre-make ultralight quilts. I'd prefer drawcord/open footbox since I would like to use the quilt at home too.

[MuddyWaters]

I've heard other people say they feel the same way, but I just don't agree in the least.

I don't care if it's a quilt or a bag, if it's rated at 30, it should be good down to at least 30. I have a EE quilt rated at 30 which I've happily had down in the low 20's with just my typical silkweights on and in the teens with light down. No problems.

This industry is plagued in some regards by a terrible set of standards, and people just seem to accept it. The good news is that we have a few folks out there running their business right and making products that live up to their claims.

Also, the main advantage of a quilt is not that you can vent the footbox. It's an advantage for the quilts that are designed this way, but not a huge one.

I wont buy a sleeping bag that doesnt unzip completely either, same reason. It limits the comfortable temperature range a lot. If you are covered you are sweaty, if not you are cold.

Quilts ratings are based on loft. And then there are drafts, which dont occur with bags. There is also the additional head insulation needed at some point.

I have several of both. Just my experiences.

[Nodust]

This is all really helpful and timely. I was just on the verge of trying to decide between a sleeping bag and quilt. I'm inclined to go the quilt route. It looks like many of these companies do custom quilts. I hadn't considered that was something I'd have to allow for. My AT start is end of April (in VA). Are there other recommended companies that pre-make ultralight quilts. I'd prefer drawcord/open footbox since I would like to use the quilt at home too.
Jacks R Better has always shipped my orders within a week. They have footboxes that open up all the way and close with velcro like material. I have a 40°F quilt by them and both my sons use the same kind as I do.

Jacks R Better (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/quilts/)

[Frye]

I wont buy a sleeping bag that doesnt unzip completely either, same reason. It limits the comfortable temperature range a lot. If you are covered you are sweaty, if not you are cold.

Quilts ratings are based on loft. And then there are drafts, which dont occur with bags. There is also the additional head insulation needed at some point.

I have several of both. Just my experiences.

I'm not saying the design of the footbox is without advantages, I just disagree as to their importance. In a summer quilt I prefer an adjustable footbox, in quilts rated for lower temps I prefer a sewn in design. (More preference than advantage) I know some people want one quilt to cover them for all weather though and perhaps the footbox has more importance for them, I don't fall under this category though.

I see the biggest advantage of a quilt being its streamlined designed. All the unneeded excess of a sleeping bag being cut out.

In regards to drafts. I don't have an issue with em. I just make sure my quilt is of a proper width and if possible I use a strapping mechanism.

[Gray Bear]

I definitely want a quilt the opens up and lays flat. To me personally that's a major benifit. It seems to me it would be easy enough to stuff some clothes down there to block a draft if needed. If the forecast is below 20 I'm going to my bag anyway.
I'm waiting for a reply to my email to HG to see what they have to say but at this point I'm leaning towards the EE 30 with 850. I may go with a 20d shell since I'm going to give the tarp thing a shot this year. I'm also going to follow Connie ' lead and try the Tigoat bug Net Bivy. That sounds like a very sweet little setup. When I'm doing long days a big part of my mental game is a good meal and a comfy place to crash and this sound like a ,setup to look forward to.

[Studlintsean]

Any opinions on the 10d vs 20d outer shell for the AT? I'm thinking of purchasing a 40deg EE Revelation for late spring, summer, and early fall. How much more efficient is the 20d in keeping the down dry (I know it won't keep it completely dry)?

[Connie]

Interesting question.

We have to do the same things to protect our gear, regardless of the outer fabric.

[Butch_Lodi]

I would recommend a 20 degree quilt with a standard (non sewn footbox). This works for me even in the summer months since you can vent as needed to keep from overheating. I have an UGQ Flightjacket and really like it. If your not a tree hanger, get the bungee setup from UGQ. Costs around $10 and prevents the quilt from riding up as you move around.

[gbolt]

I would recommend a 20 degree quilt with a standard (non sewn footbox). This works for me even in the summer months since you can vent as needed to keep from overheating. I have an UGQ Flightjacket and really like it. If your not a tree hanger, get the bungee setup from UGQ. Costs around $10 and prevents the quilt from riding up as you move around.

+one on this Post

I just ordered the 50* Flight standard footbox with the bungee pad setup. I went 10D inner and outer mainly for the weight savings. I know that the 10D outer will wear some and is not as durable for long term use. However, this is a secondary limited quilt that actually replaced a S2S Thermolite Liner that was 4oz heavier and not nearly as warm.

I still plan on purchasing a 20* Top Quilt and will go with a heavier outer shell material for durability and safety as well as a sewn footbox too limit cold. I now plan on getting the bungee setup on this as well. It makes it very versitile to go to the ground when necessary.

[Gray Bear]

Any opinions on the 10d vs 20d outer shell for the AT? I'm thinking of purchasing a 40deg EE Revelation for late spring, summer, and early fall. How much more efficient is the 20d in keeping the down dry (I know it won't keep it completely dry)?

I've been thinking about this as well. I'm guessing that the 20D may offer a little more protection from moisture but I'm guessing it will take a bit longer to dry out as well. My plan is to go with a light weight 10D.

[Butch_Lodi]

Good choice, you will love the quilt. Much more comfortable and versatile than a traditional sleeping bag.

[Odd Man Out]

I too have an Underground Quilt. Very nice, lots of options, worth considering.

[CCCCAT]

After much research and with the help of this thread, just now took the plunge and ordered an Enlightened Equipment Revelation, 30F deg, 800 DownTek GDD, Short. Just 15.82 ounces! Yahoo!! Hopefully it will get here by early - mid April.

I forgot to ask them about the straps. I'm be sleeping in my tent, and using this as a quilt on my bed at home. Do the straps make much difference?

[Gray Bear]

After much research and with the help of this thread, just now took the plunge and ordered an Enlightened Equipment Revelation, 30F deg, 800 DownTek GDD, Short. Just 15.82 ounces! Yahoo!! Hopefully it will get here by early - mid April.

I forgot to ask them about the straps. I'm be sleeping in my tent, and using this as a quilt on my bed at home. Do the straps make much difference?

Thats awesome! now the wait begins.

hopefully, I'll be ordering mine tomorrow. Im looking at 30* reg/wide. Im trying to decide between the 800 and 850. The weight savings is less than .75 oz and its another $85, enough for my 8x10 tarp.

[chall]

After much research and with the help of this thread, just now took the plunge and ordered an Enlightened Equipment Revelation, 30F deg, 800 DownTek GDD, Short. Just 15.82 ounces! Yahoo!! Hopefully it will get here by early - mid April.

I forgot to ask them about the straps. I'm be sleeping in my tent, and using this as a quilt on my bed at home. Do the straps make much difference?

The straps definitely make a difference. I have the 20* Revelation. The straps allow you to keep you and your quilt attached to your pad. The straps are very adjustable, so on cold nights you can adjust the quilt to keep the sides tucked under you. You'll see when you get the quilt! :)

[CCCCAT]

Gray Bear,

I asked them that very same questions, 850 or 800. They said 30F 800 will keep you just as warm as 30F 850, didn't make that much difference. So, I went with the cheaper price. My $0.02. If you're on the fence, just ask them and they'll help you decide. I called them.

[Studlintsean]

I think I'll go with the 10d also Danger Dave.

[Just Bill]

Unless you do a lot of cowboy camping- no reason not to trust a 10d fabric.
If you go synthetic- it doesn't matter much at all- if you get a nick in it the insulation won't spill out.
Even in down, if you select a 10d with a ripstop grid a serious tear is pretty rare.

[MuddyWaters]

Thats awesome! now the wait begins.

hopefully, I'll be ordering mine tomorrow. Im looking at 30* reg/wide. Im trying to decide between the 800 and 850. The weight savings is less than .75 oz and its another $85, enough for my 8x10 tarp.


Gray Bear,

I asked them that very same questions, 850 or 800. They said 30F 800 will keep you just as warm as 30F 850, didn't make that much difference. So, I went with the cheaper price. My $0.02. If you're on the fence, just ask them and they'll help you decide. I called them.

800 is generally recognized as the best all around down.
Higher lofting down loses more loft due to humidity.

[Gray Bear]

800 is generally recognized as the best all around down.
Higher lofting down loses more loft due to humidity.

Thanks. I've made my decision. I'm going with EE ( I like the zipper over the snaps on the HG) Reg/wide 30* with the 800FP.

[Grinch]

EE is the way to go. great CS, great products. just got the revolt elite. i went all in. 20 degree, 950hdd, with 20d on outside, 19.6 oz! love it! they have the lightest quilts available. thanks EE!

[Gray Bear]

I'm curious what the range of a 30* quilt will realistically be. at some point I'll be picking up down pants and I m wondering if a merino base with the down pants will get me into the 15* range. on the other end I'm thinking this may take me right through he summer in the Whites as well. Could this be my three season solution?

[Studlintsean]

I pulled the trigger last night. I am looking to testing out the quilt in April when it arrives.

[CCCCAT]

Thanks. I've made my decision. I'm going with EE ( I like the zipper over the snaps on the HG) Reg/wide 30* with the 800FP.
Great! Keep us posted re. your order status, when you get it, how you like it, etc. Share the good news with us. I'll be sharing my info too. Can't wait!

[Gray Bear]

Does anyone know what the difference between the wide and extra wide is?

[Gray Bear]

Does anyone know what the difference between the wide and extra wide is?

Found the info I was looking for Wide is 58" and X Wide is 64". I'd pick up another 2 oz with the XW. Why is it so easy to pickup more weight and so expensive/hard to loose it?

I'm on the fence on what to get. I'm 6'1" and 255#. The guy I spoke with says go XW but my WM Alpinlite is 65" and its roomy so I'm wondering if I really need the XW if I don't have of that material under me. I don't want to second guess the guy who does this for a living and end up with a drafty quilt that's a bit to small but apparently I'm turning into a bit of a gram weenie 'cuz that 2 oz is really bugging me. Any guys out there that are on the bigger size with some input for me?

[Just Bill]

Found the info I was looking for Wide is 58" and X Wide is 64". I'd pick up another 2 oz with the XW. Why is it so easy to pickup more weight and so expensive/hard to loose it?

I'm on the fence on what to get. I'm 6'1" and 255#. The guy I spoke with says go XW but my WM Alpinlite is 65" and its roomy so I'm wondering if I really need the XW if I don't have of that material under me. I don't want to second guess the guy who does this for a living and end up with a drafty quilt that's a bit to small but apparently I'm turning into a bit of a gram weenie 'cuz that 2 oz is really bugging me. Any guys out there that are on the bigger size with some input for me?

If in doubt, size up. That's the rule of thumb being followed.

But your logic is entirely correct- your roomy sleeping bag is 65" in circumference.
A 58" quilt plus a 20" pad is 78" of coverage. Or basically 5" on either side to help with drafts.
In reality you should need less, in practice... that's kinda up to you.
Some people really thrash around and need the extra length on the sides to stop drafts.
Some people are good at rolling over carefully and don't wake up or draft too much.

Get a friend, cross your arms, and have them measure your circumference for you- this is a more accurate number to use than your sleeping bag.
It's probably about 60" but that number will give you a decent worse case. For fun while your helper is handy- put your arms to your sides and have them measure again. When it's really chilly you can "tuck in" to give yourself more room.

You can also lay on your pad on the ground, and have your helper drape a tape over you while you side sleep- but that number should be close to the crossed arm number.

[Gray Bear]

Thanks Bill. I had my wife measure me last night, hands by my side I'm 58" around the middle at my elbows. Looks like I'm going XW. I'll have to find the 2 oz somewhere else. I don't want to wait 5 weeks to find out I screwed my self over 2 oz. I'm still losing almost a pound (15 oz.) over my bag.


If in doubt, size up. That's the rule of thumb being followed.

But your logic is entirely correct- your roomy sleeping bag is 65" in circumference.
A 58" quilt plus a 20" pad is 78" of coverage. Or basically 5" on either side to help with drafts.
In reality you should need less, in practice... that's kinda up to you.
Some people really thrash around and need the extra length on the sides to stop drafts.
Some people are good at rolling over carefully and don't wake up or draft too much.

Get a friend, cross your arms, and have them measure your circumference for you- this is a more accurate number to use than your sleeping bag.
It's probably about 60" but that number will give you a decent worse case. For fun while your helper is handy- put your arms to your sides and have them measure again. When it's really chilly you can "tuck in" to give yourself more room.

You can also lay on your pad on the ground, and have your helper drape a tape over you while you side sleep- but that number should be close to the crossed arm number.

[Gray Bear]

Trigger pulled! Revelation 30 inbound!

[adamfbomb]

Hey everyone,
After reading this thread inside and out a few times, I'm also ready to pull to pull the trigger on an EE 20 degree revelation quilt. This is my largest backpacking purchase to date so I was hoping one of y'all could kindly help me with a few questions I have...


1) From what I've gathered, the idea color set up would be a lighter color on the outside shell for visibility at night, and a dark color on the inside to help the quilt dry faster in the event that it gets wet. Does that sound right?
2) I plan on getting the 20D outer because I prefer a slightly more durable outer and don't care about the extra 1.5oz of weight. Will the 20D affect the weather resistance or drying ability of the quilt?

3) I plan to get the regular 800FP down because the treated down, while being more expensive, is also more clump-prone. Is this correct?
4) I cannot for the life of me figure out what the weather resistance stripes are. Can anyone help?

Thank you so much for your responses!

[Gray Bear]

Your color selection sounds reasonable. I went with two darker colors but I think as long as you have a lest one side to soak up the sunshine you're good.

My understanding is the 20D is a bit more durable, more moisture resistant and slightly heavier and a bit less breathable therefore it may take a bit longer to dry.

I went with the 800 as well. When I spoke with them I got the impression the 850 and 900 were for folks who were trying to squeeze out every ounce they could.

The stripes are for folks who went with the 10D shell and want a little more moisture protection and the foot and head of the quilt where they are most likely to come in contact with condensation or water vapor from exhaling on the quilt.



Hey everyone,
After reading this thread inside and out a few times, I'm also ready to pull to pull the trigger on an EE 20 degree revelation quilt. This is my largest backpacking purchase to date so I was hoping one of y'all could kindly help me with a few questions I have...


1) From what I've gathered, the idea color set up would be a lighter color on the outside shell for visibility at night, and a dark color on the inside to help the quilt dry faster in the event that it gets wet. Does that sound right?
2) I plan on getting the 20D outer because I prefer a slightly more durable outer and don't care about the extra 1.5oz of weight. Will the 20D affect the weather resistance or drying ability of the quilt?

3) I plan to get the regular 800FP down because the treated down, while being more expensive, is also more clump-prone. Is this correct?
4) I cannot for the life of me figure out what the weather resistance stripes are. Can anyone help?

Thank you so much for your responses!

[Connie]

I am not having any experience of clumping. Perhaps that was right out of the 1 oz. bag purchase before stuffing: Just Bill does DIY/MYOG.

I have 850-fill treated down I found out is sourced Hungarian down. I couldn't be more pleased with this Hammock Gear Burrow 20 with this down and 10D argon fabric and I have had 900-fill Brooks-Range Elephant Foot and Mont Bell UL Super Spiral and Sierra Designs 300 "Perfect".

The "heavier" fabric is a different experience: there will be gaps for pockets of air between you and the sleeping bag. The 10D argon nestles around you, a different experience entirely: there is no need to warm air gaps between you and the sleeping bag because there are no air-gaps. In addition, I have had no problem of "drafts" because 1. The size is right for me, and, 2. the entire sleeping quilt nestles around me.

I do have a Titanium Goat Bug Bivy for "cowboy camping" I thought I would need to keep the slerping quilt tucked in around me. It does that, and, it provides a tough ground cloth.

I take care of all my gear, so 10D is not different from my other lightweight gear.

Now, your experience might be different. I recall the "objections" to the Mont Bell UL Super Spiral down sleeping bag "nestling" around close. The fabric was reasonably lightweight and the elastic helped that effect some people didn't like.

I realise I just don't like the confining feeling of a sleeping bag; I prefer a sleeping quilt because I can move around more easily, immediately falling back asleep.

I would say, these are the "issues" for your preference, adding only if you are tough on your gear 30D isn't enough.

[Gray Bear]

So tomorrow will be 4 weeks since I ordered my quilt from EE. they estimated 4-5 weeks. I just checked up on my order and I noticed they are out to 6 weeks on new orders for down. I cant wait! Christmas in April!

[Tundracamper]

So tomorrow will be 4 weeks since I ordered my quilt from EE. they estimated 4-5 weeks. I just checked up on my order and I noticed they are out to 6 weeks on new orders for down. I cant wait! Christmas in April!

I just ordered a new TQ and it was a toss up between EE and HG. Since I have a trip planned in early May, the deciding factor became the delivery time. Expect to have a new Burrow in just a couple of weeks.

[Vthiker77]

HG Burrow 20*............ 'nuff said.
Stupendous all around quilt

[colorado_rob]

I sweated and sweated and researched and read countless reviews and sweated some more, and finally went with a Katabatic gear Palisade, overall it slightly beat out EE quilts, though I'm sure the differences are minor in performance, and EE would have been less expensive. But then I "discovered" that the Katabatic Gear factory was 10 minutes from my house, and that nailed it. I went and looked at them, got into a couple models/sizes, talked with the owner, etc, pulled out my credit card and got into their 2-week queue (1 week to go).

Here's a good review from outdoorgearlab.com on the Katabatic gear quilt vs. EE:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Katabatic-Gear-Palisade

[Gray Bear]

I sweated and sweated and researched and read countless reviews and sweated some more, and finally went with a Katabatic gear Palisade, overall it slightly beat out EE quilts, though I'm sure the differences are minor in performance, and EE would have been less expensive. But then I "discovered" that the Katabatic Gear factory was 10 minutes from my house, and that nailed it. I went and looked at them, got into a couple models/sizes, talked with the owner, etc, pulled out my credit card and got into their 2-week queue (1 week to go).

Here's a good review from outdoorgearlab.com on the Katabatic gear quilt vs. EE:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Katabatic-Gear-Palisade

Thats awesome that you were able to check them out in person. Two weeks, thats pretty quick.

[CCCCAT]

After a month of waiting, got the exciting news that my EE Revelation 30 has shipped!! Wahoo! Should have it soon.

[Gray Bear]

Thats awesome! Let us know what you think when it arrives. Hey,do you remember your order date? I believe mine was a day or two behind yours which means any day now for mine.

[CCCCAT]

Thats awesome! Let us know what you think when it arrives. Hey,do you remember your order date? I believe mine was a day or two behind yours which means any day now for mine.

Yes, I seem to remember that too. My order date was March 3rd. My order went from "Awaiting Fulfillment" to "Shipped" within a day it seemed. I don't remember an in-between status. They also knew I was leaving the 3rd or 4th week of April, so that could be a factor as well. Based on the tracking info, looks like I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow!

[Gray Bear]

Yes, I seem to remember that too. My order date was March 3rd. My order went from "Awaiting Fulfillment" to "Shipped" within a day it seemed. I don't remember an in-between status. They also knew I was leaving the 3rd or 4th week of April, so that could be a factor as well. Based on the tracking info, looks like I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow!

My order was placed on the 5th. I just checked and my order is still awaiting fulfillment. Any day now!

[Studlintsean]

I ordered on the 3rd and I'm still awaiting fulfillment also. I checked with Peter and was told 5 weeks was about right so I'm hoping it will ship in the next day or two. If it arrives this week I'll be testing it out this weekend.

[CCCCAT]

Got it! I ordered Inside Fabric Color: Coyote, Outside Fabric Color: Sunrise. I have to say, it looks a bit like a pumpkin! I might have made different color choices if I'd been able to see the actual colors. But, hey, it's okay. I'm pleased. Will try it out soon.

[Gray Bear]

Got it! I ordered Inside Fabric Color: Coyote, Outside Fabric Color: Sunrise. I have to say, it looks a bit like a pumpkin! I might have made different color choices if I'd been able to see the actual colors. But, hey, it's okay. I'm pleased. Will try it out soon.


Hows the workmanship? Have you tried it out as far as coverage goes? Does it feel lighter than air?

[Studlintsean]

Got it! I ordered Inside Fabric Color: Coyote, Outside Fabric Color: Sunrise. I have to say, it looks a bit like a pumpkin! I might have made different color choices if I'd been able to see the actual colors. But, hey, it's okay. I'm pleased. Will try it out soon.


Sunrise Orange is the 20D correct? I went with the 10D Burnt Orange. Were you notified via email when it was shipped or did you check the site and notice it? Thanks

[CCCCAT]

Hows the workmanship? Have you tried it out as far as coverage goes? Does it feel lighter than air?


Very nice workmanship. You'll see. I was impressed with how easy it was to pull/open the drawstring at the bottom and convert between a mummy and a quilt. Also impressed with how light it was. And TOASTY! They give you a nice storage bag as well as a stuff sack.


Sunrise Orange is the 20D correct? I went with the 10D Burnt Orange. Were you notified via email when it was shipped or did you check the site and notice it? Thanks


Yes, Sunrise Orange is 20D. Yes, got an email when it shipped.

[Gray Bear]

I was quoted 4-5 weeks when I ordered. Yesterday was 5 weeks. Still no joy! :(

[Studlintsean]

I was quoted 4-5 weeks when I ordered. Yesterday was 5 weeks. Still no joy! :(

I'm a few days past 5 weeks and haven't heard anything. Hopefully today or Monday. I did notice the wait increased to 7 weeks but Peter said I should be shipped in 5 weeks and a few days.

[Gray Bear]

I'm a few days past 5 weeks and haven't heard anything. Hopefully today or Monday. I did notice the wait increased to 7 weeks but Peter said I should be shipped in 5 weeks and a few days.

Looks like we got in just before the bubble.

[RedwoodRoots]

My order was placed on the 5th. I just checked and my order is still awaiting fulfillment. Any day now!

I ordered one on the 8th... I cannot wait! My bf bought a WM bag and has been biting at the bit to do a comparison :banana

[SteelCut]

When you get your quilt from EE, turn it inside out and check the tag in the foot end for the down fill weight of the quilt. Yesterday when I got back from a section hike I turned it inside out and noticed that my quilt was a 800 fill quilt. I had no idea that they were labeled on the inside of the foot end. But, I ordered a 900 fill quilt. I don't know if they mis-labelled a 900 fill quilt when it was made or sent me an incorrect 800 fill quilt. I re-checked my EE account orders and verified that I did order (and pay for) a 900 fill quilt. Since it was received over 5 months ago I feel that too much time has passed to address the issue with EE. Plus, I'm starting on my AT thru hike week and don't have time to wait on a new quilt if they did make a mistake. Oh well. I will try to weigh the quilt to see if my weight matches the 800 fill or 900 specs. But, It's so light that I don't really care ... other than possibly paying for something that I did not receive.

I also ordered a 900 fill UQ and it was correctly marked.

This is the only negative thing that I experienced with EE.

[Studlintsean]

I would recommend emailing Tim about it. If he screwed up, I have no doubt they would Mail you a new quilt to a location where you could pick it up mid hike. I bet they would expedite and you would have it within a week or two. I'd be curious to hear your experience if you go this route.

[SteelCut]

I weighed my quilt and it is exactly on spec with the 900 fill. It appears that it was mis-labeled with the wrong tag. I feel better now.

[Gray Bear]

I emailed Pete. It looks like will be here middle of next week.


I ordered one on the 8th... I cannot wait! My bf bought a WM bag and has been biting at the bit to do a comparison :banana

What WM bag did he get? I have the Alpinlite (20 deg) and ordered the Rev 30 deg. I'm interested in seeing how they compare.

[Studlintsean]

Shipped today. Gray Bear- Hopefully yours will ship in the next day or so.

[ZenRabbit]

Just received a confirmation email from Enlightened Equipment for my order of a Revelation Elite 20° 900 fill in UVA blue and orange :)

Question : do people generally use a wide pad with the extra wide quilt?

Sent from my SCH-i705 using Tapatalk

[Gray Bear]

Shipped today. Gray Bear- Hopefully yours will ship in the next day or so.


Hope so. I'm gettin' itchy!

[Gray Bear]

Woooohooooooo! just got the word. SHIPPED!

[jeffmeh]

Just received a confirmation email from Enlightened Equipment for my order of a Revelation Elite 20° 900 fill in UVA blue and orange :)

Question : do people generally use a wide pad with the extra wide quilt?

Sent from my SCH-i705 using Tapatalk

Size the bad based upon what is comfortable for you, and adjust the quilt accordingly based upon the fit and how much/little ventilation you need for the temperature.

[Gray Bear]

I'm looking at my pad now that the quilt is in the mail. I have an XTherm and I'm wondering how comfortable its going to be against skin during the warmer nights. I thought about making a light weight cover for it out of something like argon maybe.....but that's more weight.

[Studlintsean]

I got my quilt yesterday. I was thinking I would get it out tonight but it looks like I might not be able to. The quilt is awesome.

[CCCCAT]

Woooohooooooo! just got the word. SHIPPED!

Did you get it? What do you think?

[Gray Bear]

Did you get it? What do you think?

Yes I did. This thing is ridiculously light! It packs down to nothing as well. The workmanship is excellent. I'm really glad I went with EE's recommendation for the Xwide. They were right. We're still getting snow up here so I wont be going out with it for a bit. this was well worth the wait.

[LoneStranger]

I'm looking at my pad now that the quilt is in the mail. I have an XTherm and I'm wondering how comfortable its going to be against skin during the warmer nights. I thought about making a light weight cover for it out of something like argon maybe.....but that's more weight.

If weight is your primary concern you'll just have to suffer :) but Therm-a-Rest makes fitted sheets that do the trick nicely. REI Outlet was dumping a bunch of old versions a few weeks back and may still have some left. Depending on how much you roll around you may want to snip off the belt/buckle in the middle to save weight. Your EE quilt may have snaps that will attach the quilt to your pad; my Prodigy does at least.

[CCCCAT]

Yes I did. This thing is ridiculously light! It packs down to nothing as well. The workmanship is excellent. I'm really glad I went with EE's recommendation for the Xwide. They were right. We're still getting snow up here so I wont be going out with it for a bit. this was well worth the wait.

Is the Silnylon Stuff Sack waterproof? Will you use that alone or put your bag in another dry bag?