Clothes for winter hiking - need advice

[Dainon]

I am planning on a 3-day/2-night hike from NOC to Fontana in late December. I have never done an overnight in winter and I have some serious questions about what clothes to wear. I've read "Layering" in the Hypothermia section in Featured Articles so I think that I understand the basics, but I want to run this by you people before I buy stuff.

For pants, I'm thinking of midweight capaline tights and then regular nylon long hiking pants. For above the waist, I'm thinking of midweight capaline longsleeve shirt, then another midweight shirt on top of that. I "hike hot" and easily get sweaty, so I'll be carrying FroggToggs, a fleece pullover, and a Patagonia Micropuff pullover for when I set up camp. I will also have glove liners and a wool stretch hat.Is that OK?

Should I get a pair of fleece pants??? I thought that I'd carry an extra set of capalines for sleeping in and in case the other stuff got wet. Do I need other clothes?

I normally use Adidas Supernova trailrunners. Should I use Goretex shoes or boots?


I have a Western Mountaineering bag rated at 20 degrees. I also have a silk bag liner. I use a Thermarest Prolite. Will I stay warm at night?
I'd really appreciate any advice from those of you with winter hiking experience.Thanks in advance.

[orangebug]

Layering is the way to go, especially to avoid over heating and sweat on the many uphills. I'd bring rain pants as well as some sort of shell, but I think your Frogg Toggs fits that bill nicely. I'd consider some sort of over mitt for freezing rain to keep your hands dry, if not warm. I'd consider bringing VPL socks in case of severly bad ground conditions.

You don't mention your shelter plans. I like tenting or a very large hammock to keep everything thawed for the next morning.

I have a pair of fleece pants that I've never used. The bulk of heat will leave via head and chest.

Have fun. It is a better idea to go with someone on winter walks. Hypothermia can make you stupid before it kills you.

[The Solemates]

If I were going to that area in late december, I would carry my 5 deg down bag. you may get cold in a 20 deg bag, but then again it depends on the weather. but temps around 0F are certainly possible.

[Skidsteer]

I like some sort of neck gaiter for winter hiking. I normally wear a buff while walking and may bring a heavier type for sleeping. Also, a balaclava is nice for sleeping if it's really cold. Hope this helps.

[LIhikers]

First let me say that I stay pretty warm when hiking. Rarely do I use long underwear under my pants. The walking keeps my upper legs warm and if I think my lower legs will get cold I put knee high gaiters on. On top I wear a polypro, longsleeve, turtle neck base layeer that has a zipper down to the middle of the chest. Next layer is a long sleeve, nylon, buttondown shirt. A 200 weight fleece vest or jacket goes on top. I also carry a nylon wind breaker to put on if I need it. Then I carry a set of heavyweight long underwear, another polypro shirt and a 300weight, windproof fleece jacket, and a pair of nylon rain pants for use in camp. And of course I have hats, gloves, and socks for hiking and camp. The trick is to get your hiking clothes dried out so you don't have to put damp clothes back on the second day.

[Burn]

Have fun. It is a better idea to go with someone on winter walks. Hypothermia can make you stupid before it kills you.

at minimum, make sure someone knows where you are, and an expected time you will return. and remember to camp in lowest elevation in an area that obviously blocks the wind. search for warm spots or wind breaks when you rest. one of my sweetest memories is walking into a hot spot in winter, leaning up against the rocks and they were at least 20* warmer than the air.

[orangebug]

Don't sit or lean on the rocks - they're a heat sink. Be careful of camping near the bottom of a gap, as cold wind may blow thru. Even worse is camping in a deep hollow.

[Shutterbug]

For winter hiking, I have found that keeping my feet warm and dry is the critical issue. I wear polypro sock liners, wool socks and gortex lined boots.

Last year I hiked with a guy who wore trailrunner kind of shoes. After a couple of hours hiking in 5 to 8 inches of snow, he was miserable because of wet, cold feet.

As far as staying warm while you are sleeping, the 20 degree bag should be ok. Personally, I use a 10 degree bag, but there really isn't much difference. It is important to keep your sleeping bag dry. In cold temperatures even a little moisture (like from wet socks) can make a big difference in your comfort. If you get the foot area of your bag wet, you will be cold all night.

In U.S. Air Force survival training, I slept under a parachute cloth shelter and in an air force issue sleeping bag in temperatures down to -30 degrees. We were taught to sleep naked in the sleeping bag. I can tell you that it isn't fun to crawl out of a warm bag to put on cloths that are frozen stiff. For that reason, I usually keep the layer of clothing that will be against my skin in the sleeping bag with me. I put the clothing in a stuff sack and use it as a pillow inside the sleeping bag.

When it is really cold, be sure to zip your sleeping bag all the way. Personally, I prefer to leave a small opening for my nose and mouth, but when it really gets cold I completely seal the sleeping bag. It gets a little stuffy but stays warm.

Have fun.

[C-Stepper]

Which sleeping pad? A Prolite 4 "may" be adequate, a Prolite 3 likely will not be warm enough by itself. My Prolite 3 keeps me warm only down to the 30's (I'm a cold sleeper, though, YMMV).

You might want to carry an extra foam pad for insulating from the ground. Better to carry the extra 9 oz (for a Ridgerest) that time of year than take the chance if you can't "practice" cold camping ahead of time.

I'd ditch the silk liner, if it were me...if you want to add warmth to your bag (I'm not sure I'd bank on a 20 degree, but again, I sleep cold), buy a fleece liner. And, unless your bag is really small you can wear a few light layers of clothes.

Or, better yet, rent or buy a warmer bag.

[rainmaker]

One thing that I've learned the hard way is that as you get older you get colder, or least I do. So to stay warm while walking I take the following:
2 pair of socks
silk weight capilene to walk in( tops and bottoms)
nylon shorts to wear over the silk weight bottoms
a polartec 200 vest for walking if it gets really cold
real boots
a nylon t shirt just in case we have a warm spell
knit hat and glove liners
If it gets really cold ,windy, wet or snowy I put on Marmot Precip jacket and pants and overmitts.Gaitors also help .
When I get to camp I change into midweight capilene, fleece pants , down jacket, and fleece socks.Everything I had on during the day goes into a stuff sack and into the bottom of my 0 degree bag.
I suppose I'll never make it into the UL Hall of Fame but I'll be warm, slow but warm. Oh yeah , ridgerest trumps thermarest when its cold. Happy hiking.

[Ramble~On]

:-? Everyone's different and each is colder or warmer in any given temperature...at any given time...
Age, health, what you've eatten, how much sleep you've had and what you are wearing all play a factor into how comfortable you'll be on your hike.

Your list seemed pretty good to me...as I felt that if I were wearing the same stuff from NOC to Fontana I wouldn't be uncomfortable.

You mention glove liners...what about gloves ?
Boot wise...in winter I leave the lightweights at home and break out the leather. Cold feet are not one of my favorite things and I'd bring along extra socks...for winter I am a fan of Alpaca socks or a blend.
You didn't mention anything about shelter...are you going to bring anything along such as tent, hammock, tarp or do you plan to stay in the shelters.
A 20 degree bag might be fine depending on what type shelter you are in..
Trail shelters might block some weather such as wind and rain but in winter they do little to effect temperature...

[rickb]

They are expensive, but Schoeller Dryskin pants are hard to beat, for winter walking, IMHO. Or even for late fall and early spring.

I also carry a ridgerest foam pad (in addition to my Thermarest), The extra insullation undearneath is nice at night, but what really motivates me to take it is so I can have something to sit on during lunch and breaks. I'll take it even when dayhiking.

[The Will]

Dainon,

I think there may be reason for concern regarding your sleeping arrangements. If you have used an open-cell foam pad (Therma-Rest) on frozen ground before you know that they leave a lot to be desired as an insulating piece. A model such as the pro-lite, in an effort to reduce the over-all weight of the product, removes portions of the foam inner, further reducing insulating value. While closed cell pads don't offer the same cushion, they are wonderful insulators. It is quite common for hikers to combine the two types of pads for winter use: closed cell on bottom and open cell pad on top.

There's no questioning the quality of a WM sleeping bag, but whether a 20 degree rating will be adequate is dependent on the weather condition at that time. Personally, I would feel vulnerable to a cold night with such a bag in your chosen area and season. A vapor barrier liner is a good way to increase the range of your sleeping bag...but people have mixed responses to there use.

If it were me, I would leave behind the nylon pants, and just use a combination of shorts with long-johns underneath, and then add your pant shells to this combination as the temperature dictates.

Your clothing list for your upper body sounds perfect.

One more suggestion...two pairs of thermals (upper and lower) just in case...

...and maybe go double on the gloves/hat and multiple socks.

Enjoy!

[whcobbs]

Dainon--
If your footgear is permeable or suspect, neoprene socks come in handy. They aren't waterproof, but still stay warm in the wet, especially slush. Campmor used to have a cheap Chinese kind for $10/pair.
Walt

[Rambler]

I think you are wise to take the extra set of capelene "in case the other stuff gets wet" It most likely will get wet from your sweat, especially at your back. It is nice to get off that sweaty wet clothing when you get to camp and if you do fall into a stream during your hike you wil also be glad to have it! I do not think you will be wearing that second mid-weight shirt for long as you hike, but it will serve you well as a back-up, dry alternative. I agree with the double sleeping pad combo. Coldness usually comes from the ground up. A piece of 1.9 oz. coated nylon makes a helpful ground cover, too. It does not need to be any wider or longer than your pad and bag. It also keeps shelter dust off of your gear. (not needed if you use a tent with a floor) Go with a warmer bag if you have one, but if not, just be prepared to wear your extra clothes if needed. Running shoes concern me for an overnight hike. Wet snow will mean very wet feet which can freeze the toes. A boot with a removeablt liner would be best, but at least I would prefer boots over low cuts. Take overmitts if you have them. Take them big enough to fit over your gloves or mittens. They really do add warmth. If it rains they are great to wear over your glove liners as you hike. Males are lucky to be able to add an important luxury that is also lightweight....a pee bottle. No joke. Not having to get out of one's bag in the middle of a freezing night is indeed a luxury. Sleeping with a winter hat will keep you warm, but they are hard to keep on one's head without a tie under the chin or a balacava set up. In case you have to get water from melting snow, do not wait until morning to get your water for breakfast or even for your water during the day. Save time by doing that chore in the evening, then bury the containers (pot or water bottle) in snow. It won't freeze. Crampons, or snowshoes??

I do not mean to be a alarmist, but hiking alone doubles the threat of hypothermia. No one can tell you you are becoming hypothermic. I know. It happened to me. I knew I was getting cold. I had started to shiver. I knew I needed to get dry clothes on, get shelter and eat. Next morning I awoke with a dry pants, but wet top.(or maybe the other way around). I was mostly out of my sleeping bag, and one end of my tarp was completely on the ground. My dinner was cooked, but uneaten in the pot. That night I had also gone to the stream to get water, and had a hard time finding my way back to my campsite. Wet snow underfoot, wet snow from trees and bushes,and exhaustion from trying to hike too far had almost killed me. What saved me was temperatures that were above freezing. Some of the most beautiful hikes have been in winter, but if you start to shiver, take action fast.

PS I do not think you need fleece pants. Long uderwear, pants, and raingear pants should be enough. Another combo is long nylon pants with a thin liner. (less bulky and warmer than fleece) Hike in your mid-weight capelene under your Frog Togg pants.

[Rambler]

I saw the Micro Puff Jacket you mention in the Patagonia catalog. On the same page is the Puff ball vest which I own and is great. The Puff Jacket looks like a perfect jacket for your hike and keeping you warm in camp.

[SKCM]

This is a great thread, I was thinking of doing an overnight winter hike here in PA.... hmmmm I have the gear to do this... but my sleeping bag is rated to 15 ( SD Sandman ) and I am wondering if that would be warm enough? I am a COLD sleeper...

I would LOVE to give this a shot!

Master Chief