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squeezebox
03-09-2015, 00:29
What do you say to people who ask to to borrow your stove, water filter, 1st aide, rain wear, etc

Maui Rhino
03-09-2015, 01:03
Depends on how well I know them. However, my first aid kit is for me. If you want Band-Aids, get them from your own kit. On a recent mountain bike ride, my friend flatted. He is one of those guys who never carries a pump or inner tubes. When he asked for my tube, I made him pay me $40 cash up front...because everything costs more on top of the mountain. He complained mightily, but paid up..... Now he carries his own tube, so I guess he learned. Of course, in an emergency, I'll share...

squeezebox
03-09-2015, 07:30
Unless your team car is following you with fresh wheels you need a tube and pump, maybe even a fold up tire. Of course unless you really enjoy carrying your bicycle out in those hard to walk in bicycle shoes.

Tuckahoe
03-09-2015, 08:24
If my friends need to borrow a piece of gear, they know that they can come to me. For me that is what friendship means.

As far as strangers, I have never had another hiker ask to borrow gear. But if needed I would happily allow another to use my stove and a little fuel, my knife, headlamp and first aid. Everything else is personal, though I could spare three squares of TP if desperate. :p

Coffee
03-09-2015, 08:34
In a true emergency, I will part with whatever gear is needed provided my own safety is not compromised in doing so. Doesn't matter if the person in danger is a total stranger or not.

In a non emergency situation, I won't lend out any gear that I'm not willing to part with permanently in case the recipient fails to return it. In practice, this means that I'm not going to loan things in a non-emergency to strangers but may do so for friends.

Busky2
03-09-2015, 09:14
At Rausch Gap Shelter last year I had one of those sub xlbs guys, you know the ones, they talk about how light their stuff was again and again and again need to borrow some food from me to make through the next day. So me not being a sub xlbs kind of guy gave him a lunch (Ramen) and a snack (Cliff) and thanked him for lighting my pack(wink wink nod nod). We parted ways he to his big but hungry miles and me just north, happy, and safe.

bigcranky
03-09-2015, 09:19
Depends on the gear. I used to be able to outfit a friend for backpacking, but most of that extra big stuff (packs, tents, sleeping bags) went to the nephews when they started getting serious with Scouts. I have plenty of little stuff that I'm happy to lend to friends.

A friend just recently asked to borrow a sleeping bag, and I had to decline. I'm not willing to lend my very expensive (and fragile) down bags, and I don't have any older bags left.

garlic08
03-09-2015, 09:57
Are you asking about while on trail, or at home? I can't imagine someone asking to borrow my rain gear while on the trail, so I'm confused.

Rain Man
03-09-2015, 10:44
On a recent mountain bike ride, my friend flatted. He is one of those guys who never carries a pump or inner tubes. When he asked for my tube, I made him pay me $40 cash up front....

Not my definition of "friend" on either side of the equation. Still, I think it was a lesson this "friend" needed to be taught.


At Rausch Gap Shelter last year I had one of those sub xlbs guys, you know the ones, they talk about how light their stuff was again and again and again need to borrow some food from me to make through the next day.

Good for you. I would have done the same, but some of these guys take it to such hypocritical extremes, to me it's evidence of some mental or emotional disorder. I've had 'em ask me for the time, as they are too radical to wear a watch. Same for "borrowing" my maps to look over, because they want to have it both ways, to brag about their pack weights while still enjoying the safety and sanity of knowing the time and location.

I just finished an AT book composed of selections from online journals. In one, this female chose not to pack any shelter into the 100 Mile Wilderness. She reached a full shelter one night in the rain and announced she needed folks with tents to move out for her and her two similar companions. Hard to believe, but three hikers did jut that.

I don't let such self-consumed UL hypocrisy control my conduct, and I do let them "borrow" such things as maps, duct tape, spare food, 1st Aid misc stuff, etc.

As far as bigger items, I assume you are talking about pre-hike planning/organizing of gear. I would and have let folks borrow some of that, especially if it is spare gear (and my wife and I have plenty of that).

Wülfgang
03-09-2015, 11:21
I believe in packing everything you need to be self sufficient, on ANY trip. You should pack as if you will not see another human being. This is just responsible woodsmanship.

I'm all for helping someone in need (illness, broken/lost gear, etc), but I'd have to draw the line at allowing people to freeload. Cant believe that story about those girls showing up to a shelter with no tents. I'd have 3 words: Not. My. Problem.

schlanky
03-09-2015, 11:48
On a weekend trip, I loaned my water filter to strangers. It was their second day of a multi-day trip and it was my last day and I didn't need any more water. They'd driven several hours from a neighboring state to get to this area and their filter had blown out beyond fixing the night before. They were asking if there was anywhere they could find potable water (there wasn't). I knew my filter probably had only about 25% of its life left, so I offered it up and gave them my address to mail it back to. They mailed it as soon as they got off the trail. I went ahead and replaced the canister early since it had been out of my care. I gave up a few trips of usability, but it saved the couple's trip. With a new canister, I probably wouldn't have offered it, but with the old canister, it was worth rolling the dice on never seeing it again.

burger
03-09-2015, 11:51
Depends on how well I know them. However, my first aid kit is for me. If you want Band-Aids, get them from your own kit. On a recent mountain bike ride, my friend flatted. He is one of those guys who never carries a pump or inner tubes. When he asked for my tube, I made him pay me $40 cash up front...because everything costs more on top of the mountain. He complained mightily, but paid up..... Now he carries his own tube, so I guess he learned. Of course, in an emergency, I'll share...

I have no response to this except that I hope it's a joke. Some people have a mighty strange definition of "friend."

4eyedbuzzard
03-09-2015, 11:59
Major gear like Pack, WM sleeping bag, etc. No. Not happening. First aid supplies because they're injured? Of course. Even though I may be annoyed they don't have their own.

But the only one that makes me angry is when hikers want to "borrow" my map and/or guide - because they didn't see the need to have one, or didn't want to carry that extra weight.

JumpMaster Blaster
03-09-2015, 12:34
Not my definition of "friend" on either side of the equation. Still, I think it was a lesson this "friend" needed to be taught.



Good for you. I would have done the same, but some of these guys take it to such hypocritical extremes, to me it's evidence of some mental or emotional disorder. I've had 'em ask me for the time, as they are too radical to wear a watch. Same for "borrowing" my maps to look over, because they want to have it both ways, to brag about their pack weights while still enjoying the safety and sanity of knowing the time and location.

I just finished an AT book composed of selections from online journals. In one, this female chose not to pack any shelter into the 100 Mile Wilderness. She reached a full shelter one night in the rain and announced she needed folks with tents to move out for her and her two similar companions. Hard to believe, but three hikers did jut that.

I don't let such self-consumed UL hypocrisy control my conduct, and I do let them "borrow" such things as maps, duct tape, spare food, 1st Aid misc stuff, etc.

As far as bigger items, I assume you are talking about pre-hike planning/organizing of gear. I would and have let folks borrow some of that, especially if it is spare gear (and my wife and I have plenty of that).

Rain Man, what book are you talking about? I'd like to get my hands on it.

Coffee
03-09-2015, 12:40
The scenario where a shelterless hiker arrives at a shelter in a storm is an interesting one since it could be a life or death situation. I don't use shelters so it wouldn't be a situation that I would encounter, but I think that there would be a moral obligation to give up shelter spots if you have a tent, as annoying as that might be, if the person without a shelter might die as a result. In summer conditions with temps in the 60s? Then sure, let them wallow in the mud outside and be uncomfortable. I'm ok with telling people to be uncomfortable.

DavidNH
03-09-2015, 12:50
so and so may have brought a stove but perhaps the stove isn't working right. Then I'd let the person borrow mine.. after I am done with it.

If they need extra fuel.. I'd give some.. assuming I am not low on fuel.

If they want extra shelter space but didn't bring a tent or tarp... that's harder to say yes too.


If they ask for some of my food.. not happening.


DavidnH

fastfoxengineering
03-09-2015, 14:57
There's a big difference between borrowing and taking.

I don't know you. We just met. You didn't pack enough fuel on purpose to save weight. Your intentions are to bum fuel off other hikers. Your not my friend, and your pleases and thank you's are not sincere. I don't like people like that. on/off the trail. freeloaders that "have it all figured out"

Maybe I just met you at a shelter, we introduce ourselves to one another. You joke that your eating ramen dry tonight cause you by accidently knocked over your fuel bottle and lost all your fuel. I have an extra ounce or two, and offer it to you. You thank you's are sincere. And I'll tell them to pay it forward.. in the end, everyones happy.

you showed up to a shelter without your own tent feeling entitled to stay there? Well, because your not gonna give this up and end up sleeping in this shelter next to me some way or another. you can have my spot, i'd rather sleep in my hammock, away from you.

Bronk
03-09-2015, 15:23
I've got friends I hike, canoe and camp with...before we leave it is well understood who is bringing what...generally we each bring our own gear and are pretty well self sufficient but plan an evening meal and maybe some snacks where each person contributes. But it is decided well in advance who is bringing what, including the cooking utensils.

I've had strangers ask me for toothpaste before because they were too ultralight to carry their own. If you planned to fail, I'm probably not going to want to help you out. I've also hiked 2 days with only 2 packages of ramen in my food bag because I miscalculated...my mistake is not somebody else's problem, and it didn't kill me to learn that lesson.

You're going to find a few beggars in every crowd, especially on the AT where people budget $1500 to hike 2000 miles and then hit the bar in every town they get the chance.

perrymk
03-09-2015, 15:46
Sorry to stray off topic, but it isn't by much. Most of my hiking is in Florida and the few times I've been in an AT shelter it wasn't near full. Could be the time of year I like to hike. The shelters I stayed in had a wood platform and a dirt floor. Anyway, when people say full, do you mean there is no dirt floor space for the unprepared late arrival to unroll a sleeping bag?

As far as it goes, on a day hike ths past weekend I ran into a group whose piezo lighter stopped working on their stove. I tried to help them with my Zippo but it was too windy. So I gave them my small, cheap Bic and kept going. They seemed genuinely appreciative and hopefully they found a wind protected spot.

Coffee
03-09-2015, 16:08
Most shelters I have seen have some type of wood floor, not dirt. That would make an already unattractive option even worse.

bangorme
03-09-2015, 16:39
I'd let anyone use something of mine in an emergency. But, short of that, I'd have to decline a request to borrow something for more than a moment.

evyck da fleet
03-09-2015, 17:49
I'll give or have received fuel, lighter, toilet paper, maps to someone when AWOL's guidebook is a little off, and food to someone who is running low and not because they are ultralight. We all lose, misplace or miscalculate at one point or another.

No to food, maps, or spaces in a shelter to those who don't think it's important enough to carry sufficient snacks or maps, or have had the opportunity and passed on going into town to pickup a tent and expect me to go set up my tent in the dark during a storm because they got to a shelter late and expected to have a space. Enjoy the dirt spot under the picnic table.

Lone Wolf
03-09-2015, 18:02
What do you say to people who ask to to borrow your stove, water filter, 1st aide, rain wear, etc

no.........

Walkintom
03-09-2015, 22:08
I have let folks borrow things. Some items they should have had; some were unlikely circumstances that put them in need.

I remember a hiker who asked for some alcohol stove fuel at a store - the clerk filled his container with water - a bizarre misunderstanding due to accent. Not forseeable - he would have had fuel to make it to the next town if his hadn't been ruined. Of course I offered up my stove for his cooking.

In general I try not to judge but if the situation seems appropriate I will give them constructive criticism along with whatever I'm loaning such as: 'Don't hike without an emergency blanket - period. Next time no one may be able to help you.' They're free to ignore it, but it's the price of dealing with me.

I have also loaned out gear to people who were planning trips and have generally had good luck getting it back in good condition and timely.

In both cases I don't do it if I can't afford to lose whatever I'm handing over.

MuddyWaters
03-10-2015, 00:06
What do you say to people who ask to to borrow your stove, water filter, 1st aide, rain wear, etc

Well, honestly it would depend on how attractive she was. What can i say, im a guy.

squeezebox
03-10-2015, 04:05
Walkintom; You said never hike without an emergency blanket. Why? I bought a 5x7 a bit ago, cheap, waterproof, lighter than a tarp. I can't decide to bring it or not, I'ld appreciate your opinion.

bangorme
03-10-2015, 08:37
Walkintom; You said never hike without an emergency blanket. Why? I bought a 5x7 a bit ago, cheap, waterproof, lighter than a tarp. I can't decide to bring it or not, I'ld appreciate your opinion.

By emergency blanket, I assume you mean the plastic things?

Violent Green
03-10-2015, 19:48
Man, some of you are cold-blooded. lol

I'm pretty easy going when it comes to letting friends or even strangers borrow things. People miscalculate their needs, they're inexperienced or flat out $#!& happens. It happens to all of us. Often times even asking for help is a pretty humbling experience, so I don't feel the need to teach them a lesson by saying "Should have brought your own." If they're not humbled by asking my jabs aren't going to make a dent anyway. YMMV

We were hiking the JMT last year and came upon a young couple who were hiking the whole PCT. The young lady was hiking along slower than they expected and thus were running out of food before their next resupply. They asked if we could spare any and we gave them quite a bit. To me, they weren't free loaders, just inexperienced and needed some help.

Ryan

MuddyWaters
03-10-2015, 20:09
We were hiking the JMT last year and came upon a young couple who were hiking the whole PCT. The young lady was hiking along slower than they expected and thus were running out of food before their next resupply. They asked if we could spare any and we gave them quite a bit. To me, they weren't free loaders, just inexperienced and needed some help.

Ryan

Wish I could have found someone to give some of mine to. I ended up at WP with 3 days food left, and I buried more in catholes too.

DrL
03-10-2015, 22:13
But the only one that makes me angry is when hikers want to "borrow" my map and/or guide - because they didn't see the need to have one, or didn't want to carry that extra weight.

I have run into this situation so many times that I started carrying extra copies of the local park map. It's amazing the number of people who take photos of the map with their phone only to realize they can't make anything out.

CalebJ
03-10-2015, 22:59
Walkintom; You said never hike without an emergency blanket. Why? I bought a 5x7 a bit ago, cheap, waterproof, lighter than a tarp. I can't decide to bring it or not, I'ld appreciate your opinion.
Do you have an appropriate sleeping bag and means to keep it dry? If so, the emergency blanket is just one more useless thing in the pack.

BillyGr
03-10-2015, 23:11
Most shelters I have seen have some type of wood floor, not dirt. That would make an already unattractive option even worse.

I think some of the shelters may have an area that is dirt, in addition to the wooden floor - probably not designed for sleeping on but could be used in a pinch.

July
03-10-2015, 23:16
Do you have an appropriate sleeping bag and means to keep it dry? If so, the emergency blanket is just one more useless thing in the pack.
You can wrap yourself in your tent or tarp, if need be. Space blankets are for soldiers or those without the aforementioned pieces of gear.

RangerZ
03-10-2015, 23:26
You can wrap yourself in your tent or tarp, if need be. Space blankets are for soldiers or those without the aforementioned pieces of gear.

I remember wrapping up in a space blanket, sleeping in the back seat of a jeep (radio mounts and all) and waking up soggy. I didn’t carry one after that, just ponchos and liners.

July
03-10-2015, 23:26
This is within normal hiking context. EMS/SAR excluded.

July
03-10-2015, 23:37
I remember wrapping up in a space blanket, sleeping in the back seat of a jeep (radio mounts and all) and waking up soggy.I didn’t carry one after that, just ponchos and liners.

Still a comfortable combo for me to this day, talk about multiple uses...

RangerZ
03-11-2015, 06:10
Still a comfortable combo for me to this day, talk about multiple uses...
My wife calls them my security blanket.h

Rain Man
03-11-2015, 13:02
Rain Man, what book are you talking about? I'd like to get my hands on it.

"Hikers' Stories from the Appalachian Trail," edited by Kathryn Fulton.

I shop for books at www.alibris.com and get many used/vintage AT books there, but they have new too.

Rain Man
03-11-2015, 13:08
The scenario where a shelterless hiker arrives at a shelter in a storm is an interesting one since it could be a life or death situation.

I agree. In the situation I read about, there was the option of hiking another 4 miles to the next shelter.

But indeed, three hikers got up, got out of the shelter, and set up their tents in the rain, at the "request" of this hiking princess.

Deadeye
03-11-2015, 20:35
I'll lend to someone in need. If I borrow, I return with "interest". I borrowed a friend's snowshoes once, when I was done, I re-varnished them and returned them in better shape than I received them.

That guy will lend me anything, anytime!

Coffee
03-11-2015, 21:03
That's like the idea that you always return a friend's car with a tank full of gas if you borrow it. A good policy.