View Full Version : Going back to heavier tents . . .
mankind117
03-09-2015, 20:41
When I first started backpacking about 5 years ago my first tent was a cheap Kelty 2P tent that weighed about 4.5 pounds. Then I did the usual thing trying to get lighter and tried tarptents and others. Several of these were 1P tents and single wall to save weight. It was and is nice only having to carry 2 pounds for a tent but the longer I've backpacked I've come to the conclusion I would rather carry a 3 or 4 pound tent that is actually livable. Now I'm very tall so my situation would be easier if I were short but I've never found a 1P tent that is comfortable, especially if you have to spend any time at all in it especially when trying to live in the rain. I also live where ticks are prevalent so an enclosed tent is a must. I live on the east coast and tried the single wall thing but at the end of the day I want two walls. Wiping condensation off my fly when it is 35 out so I can move around my tent without getting wet is not fun. I've come to the conclusion that by the time you get two walls, a bug proof inner then with enough room to not just sleep but spread out, tall enough I can set up and stretch out, maybe store your pack in the tent and organize gear you are going to have 3 or 4 pounds of tent and I don't mind carrying it. In some ways I feel like I'm back where I started after 5 years.
Anyone else go through this process?
colorado_rob
03-09-2015, 20:56
No. Even though I'm tall. Ever consider getting a 2P, double wall tent that weighs 2.5 pounds or so? Plenty of them out there.
saltysack
03-09-2015, 21:05
I'm very happy with my lightheart solong 6. its a cross between double and single wall....weighs 2lbs and very roomy for me..not tall but stocky...5'11...215lbs plus all gear and my dog or like CR said try out one of the many double walls that may between 2-3lbs...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mankind117
03-09-2015, 21:05
What, you mean like the a BA Fly Creek, Seedhouse, or slater or the similar tents from REI has been making for exampe? I tried the BA slater 2P the "bigger" version of the fly creek, that tent sucked. It needed as many stakes as my non-freestanding TT Stratospire 2, the headroom sucks and if that was the length then I wouldn't even want to try the fly creek that is like 8 inches shorter. Not to mention the time I tried it, it snowed and you can't open the vestibule without getting rain or snow in. Pretty much everyone one of those 2 to 2.5 pound tents has to make some trade off to get to that weight.
mankind117
03-09-2015, 21:09
I saw a solong 6 in person and got in it. I could not sit up from lying down without hitting the fly as I'm 6'7". There was no way by the time I would have been on a 2.5 inch mattress plus taking into account the loft of your sleeping bag that my sleeping bag would not have touched the fly. Plus there was no mesh between the fly and the groundsheet like in Tarptents (think Rainbow, contrail etc ...) Any condensation would drip right down onto the groundsheet and pool. I was not impressed at all.
saltysack
03-09-2015, 21:36
Well dam...6'7"...is ur nick name jr or tiny? u need a 4 person tent[emoji1]!!! Yea the lhg tent is only fairly tall in the very center as slopes pretty steep..
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Mountain Bluebird
03-09-2015, 22:03
With respect to the original post: I'm planning 2 sections on the AT, the first in 2016, and I am looking for a tent. Since comfort will be important--I am 70 years old, I am looking for comfort in a tent, and I'm thinking that the Moment DW (34 oz) might fill the bill. Yes, I have decided against tarps & quilts andsingle-walled construction.
So, my question: Should I look at other offerings?
Thanks!
Are you willing to carry a 9 lb tent?
The Hilleberg Keron 3 sounds like what you're looking for.
http://www.hilleberg.com/home/products/keron/keron3.php
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/61panhead/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_1013_zps79f73799.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/61panhead/media/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_1013_zps79f73799.jpg.html)
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/61panhead/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_0995_zps4c207f6d.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/61panhead/media/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_0995_zps4c207f6d.jpg.html)
Christoph
03-09-2015, 22:54
I'm carrying a Dowson (Load Mountain) tent for my thru. Unfortunately, it's 4.4 pounds but for $40 bucks on Ebay, I figured I'd try it. Tested it out in the back yard and it's really warm and seals off the cold very well.
Christoph
03-09-2015, 22:57
Also, hosed it down for quite a while and it seems pretty water tight. Not in love with the whole poundage thing, but for the price I'll call it a win. More to come on my thru this year tho... Haha we'll see.
garlic08
03-09-2015, 23:51
No, I have never reversed any weight reduction I've made in my pack. But I made changes very slowly, over a decade, changes that fit my traveling style well. And I have not made any more changes in quite a few years, so I think I've bottomed out. My Tarptent Contrail, Gossamer Gear pack, and excellent down bag (or quilt depending on the trip) have been working just fine in many conditions on many trails.
Are you willing to carry a 9 lb tent?
The Hilleberg Keron 3 sounds like what you're looking for.
http://www.hilleberg.com/home/products/keron/keron3.php
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/61panhead/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_1013_zps79f73799.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/61panhead/media/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_1013_zps79f73799.jpg.html)
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/61panhead/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_0995_zps4c207f6d.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/61panhead/media/Camping/2014-12-26%20Winter%20Trip/IMG_0995_zps4c207f6d.jpg.html)
Actually, the Kaitum 3 is the same length, but wider than the Keron 3. More square feet and a longer diagonal for the OP at 6'7". A pound and a half lighter too. What a deal!
http://us.hilleberg.com/products/red-label/kaitum/Kaitum3.php
Wayne
Actually, the Kaitum 3 is the same length, but wider than the Keron 3. More square feet and a longer diagonal for the OP at 6'7". A pound and a half lighter too. What a deal!
http://us.hilleberg.com/products/red-label/kaitum/Kaitum3.php
Wayne
Good point!
I tend to forget about the "Red Label" lighter weight Hilly's, but for some people they may be just the ticket.
The Nallo 3 is lighter at 5.75 lbs and the Nallo 2 even lighter at 5.25 lbs.
But one thing to be aware of with the Nallo in cold weather, you must be careful not to let your sleeping bag touch the wall at the tapered non-vestibule end as condensation will get the bag wet.
You could go "Yellow Label" and the Anjan 2 is just under 4 lbs.
Even the lighter weight Hilly is still a more substantial shelter than most other tents on the market.
Trade-off,......the Hilly is not cheap.
squeezebox
03-10-2015, 03:13
There's a market out there for a XXlong 2 person tent, tall/big people, couples with a dog or child, 1 person with a couple of dogs, winter extra gear. I don't think it would too difficult to adjust a pattern for a longer tent or add an additional section of ridge pole to make it work.
I'm quite sure many/most of the cottage gear makers can/will do custom design, at least a modification of their current designs. I would definitely choose one or two you like, and see if they would work with you for a reasonable up-charge.
brancher
03-10-2015, 08:18
A few folks over at BPL say the Lunar Duo is great for those very tall folks. Also, for me at 6'1", the Solong 6 seems like a palace and assuredly will accommodate taller folks (and it's only 32 oz). The Tarptents can also be huge - Dbl Rainbow, Stratosphire, etc.
If you wanna avoid condensation in the East, I hope you are successful (nobody else I know has been). I've had single and dbl wall tents, tarps, bivies, hammock rigs, etc. Condensation is a fact of life in the east, especially if you are hunkering your rig down to weather out storms or very cold weather.
Look at the shelters above - hope this helps.
I didn't have that problem in my ShangriLa3 with a half-liner.
My ShangriLa3 was roomy enough for me while the Choinard Megamid was too big. I am saying there is the right size available.
These companies have a selection of sizes and "inner nest" for hybrid or double wall for the "big and tall".
http://locusgear.com
http://store.seekoutside.com
http://store.kifaru.net/mobile/tipis-c18.aspx
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=47
Cuben gives the most taut pitch. However, silnylon will not be allowed to sag if you have an adjustable center pole. Other fabric is offered.
mankind117
03-10-2015, 08:57
I actually have that tent although probably getting rid of it because it is a little too cramped although I've used it quite a bit. If you aren't a giant like me you would probably find it adequate. I can stretch out in fine but for my tastes it is lacking in floor area and of course the headroom could be better. It is a neat little tent, probably the easiest tent you will ever see to set up (only requires 2 stakes) and really easy to get a nice taught pitch.
With respect to the original post: I'm planning 2 sections on the AT, the first in 2016, and I am looking for a tent. Since comfort will be important--I am 70 years old, I am looking for comfort in a tent, and I'm thinking that the Moment DW (34 oz) might fill the bill. Yes, I have decided against tarps & quilts andsingle-walled construction.
So, my question: Should I look at other offerings?
Thanks!
mankind117
03-10-2015, 09:01
I don't want to avoid condensation. It happens here on the east coast and nothing you can do about it. I'd just rather have another wall between it and me and not have to worry about touching it. I used a TT rainbow for a year. I got sick of having to wipe down the walls when it was 30 degrees out in the morning to avoid getting rained on when trying to leave or move about my tent.
brancher
03-10-2015, 09:25
I don't want to avoid condensation. It happens here on the east coast and nothing you can do about it. I'd just rather have another wall between it and me and not have to worry about touching it. I used a TT rainbow for a year. I got sick of having to wipe down the walls when it was 30 degrees out in the morning to avoid getting rained on when trying to leave or move about my tent.
I get it. Try a hammock? There are all manner of shapes and sizes for hammocks and tarps, and if you go to Hammockforums.net, you can get all sorts of advice, DIY guidance, and great used gear for good prices. And with a hammock rig, YOU decide how much room you need and engineer it accordingly.
HooKooDooKu
03-10-2015, 09:55
I've used Kelty tents for years... love them. They are pretty much bomb proof (unless you start letting embers from the fire float off and land on the fly).
By the time I add a ground cloth under them, I never worry about the kids poking holes in the bottom of the tent, even when the ground is less than perfect. By contrast, I feel like I have to be extra vigilant about sticks and such before I set up my BA Copper Spur. The material is so thin I constantly worry that I'm going to poke a hole in it.
And anictodally (so I don't have any facts of science to back this up)... I find that my Kelty tents tend to get condensation on them less thatn the few Big Agnes tents I've owned.
Starchild
03-10-2015, 10:12
It depends on what you are doing. Am I hiking or camping (how many miles, what vertical)? What is the weather?
On one end, thru hiking, camp is just a place to sleep, I want a good night sleep and a enjoyable light weight hike, so minimal tent weight wins. I hike till it's time to get ready to sleep, and when I wake up it's time to hike again. So there is no stopping early and no extra time in camp.
On the other end base camp camping, hike in, set up a single camp site for multidays, usually day hike from this point. Here one can afford the luxury of the extra weight and enjoy the extra space and protection as it is only carried part time and left set up for a few days. Also since there is set locations, when you arrive at camp, it is camping time till it's time to get ready to sleep.
This is what experience brings. I went from ltwt to UL and found the trade offs were just not worth it. Too wet and too cold. So back up three lbs and that works best for me. One of the great aspects of the gear challenge is finding ones NEEDS vs. WANTS and assessing the weight consequences. I tried no camp shoes and had wet feet for three days so I got the Vibrofeet ultra at 6 oz. All about trade offs....
The Solemates
03-10-2015, 14:39
depends on my mood. i take lightweight tents when wanting to make miles. on other trips, i enjoy the camping aspect more than the hiking aspect. on these i like to cowboy camp under a tarp by a fire. a canvas tarp works well for this since it will not be damaged by fire embers. sil nylon would melt.
msumax1985
03-11-2015, 12:51
When I first started backpacking about 5 years ago my first tent was a cheap Kelty 2P tent that weighed about 4.5 pounds. Then I did the usual thing trying to get lighter and tried tarptents and others. Several of these were 1P tents and single wall to save weight. It was and is nice only having to carry 2 pounds for a tent but the longer I've backpacked I've come to the conclusion I would rather carry a 3 or 4 pound tent that is actually livable. Now I'm very tall so my situation would be easier if I were short but I've never found a 1P tent that is comfortable, especially if you have to spend any time at all in it especially when trying to live in the rain. I also live where ticks are prevalent so an enclosed tent is a must. I live on the east coast and tried the single wall thing but at the end of the day I want two walls. Wiping condensation off my fly when it is 35 out so I can move around my tent without getting wet is not fun. I've come to the conclusion that by the time you get two walls, a bug proof inner then with enough room to not just sleep but spread out, tall enough I can set up and stretch out, maybe store your pack in the tent and organize gear you are going to have 3 or 4 pounds of tent and I don't mind carrying it. In some ways I feel like I'm back where I started after 5 years.
Anyone else go through this process?
Yes. I had a Tarptent Contrail, but similarly did not like the single wall condensation issues. I also did not like the end entry and extremely slippery bathtub. I did a ton of research and purchased Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. I added 8 oz but it is way more liveable. The CS UL1 is 22 square feet, which is huge by single person tent standards. It's actually very similar size to the Contrail, but the space is much more useable and funtional.
kevperro
03-12-2015, 00:22
Yes. I had a Tarptent Contrail, but similarly did not like the single wall condensation issues. I also did not like the end entry and extremely slippery bathtub. I did a ton of research and purchased Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. I added 8 oz but it is way more liveable. The CS UL1 is 22 square feet, which is huge by single person tent standards. It's actually very similar size to the Contrail, but the space is much more useable and funtional.
It is a good tent. I've been all over the board trying every single person shelter I could. I'm currently in the newer REI Quarterdome 1 and it suits me. The CS UL1 is a slightly nicer design (space) but the REI is cheap and I don't feel guilty leaving the ground cloth at home so weight is comparable.
I used a cuben 8 x 10 tarp last year hiking the Wonderland. It was an interesting experience but I'm back to using the tent and I agree..... I don't notice the extra weight in my pack but a full double wall tent with real pole structure offers an extra layer of security that I find worth carrying.
My base weight is around 12.5 lbs and I found your really don't save that much carrying just a tarp once you add all the stakes, cordage, bivy etc...etc....
I liked my ShangriLa3 with half liner and I think I would purchase a LocusGear like it. I haven't decided.
I like a bivy "cowboy camp" with a tarp "back-up".
I would, however, use that "tipitent" style for winter "hot tent" camping. It's fun.
In winter, I use a pulk. That is fun.
If you are having a good time, who cares about UL/SUL/XUL.
Offshore
03-12-2015, 07:03
Yes. I had a Tarptent Contrail, but similarly did not like the single wall condensation issues. I also did not like the end entry and extremely slippery bathtub. I did a ton of research and purchased Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. I added 8 oz but it is way more liveable. The CS UL1 is 22 square feet, which is huge by single person tent standards. It's actually very similar size to the Contrail, but the space is much more useable and funtional.
I'm not sure what the OP means by "very tall", but I'm 6'2" and didn't fit in the CS1 that I tried a year or so ago. The BA marketing material claimed a length of 90" (at the time, one of the few that long), but when I set it up and staked it out, the interior length was more like 83" and with the slope of the end walls, it was just too short when considering sleeping pad thickness and bag loft. I contacted BA and they clarified that they measure length from stake point to stake point. Very creative marketing, but misleading and not helpful. I ultimately went with a Marmot Pulsar 1P and haven't looked back.
mankind117
03-12-2015, 09:24
I'm 6'6". I tried a copper spur 2 in the store once. I agree the whole 90 inch thing is BS. It could barely fit a full length 78 inch neoair lengthwise and my head and feet were both crammed against the walls.
I'm not sure what the OP means by "very tall", but I'm 6'2" and didn't fit in the CS1 that I tried a year or so ago. The BA marketing material claimed a length of 90" (at the time, one of the few that long), but when I set it up and staked it out, the interior length was more like 83" and with the slope of the end walls, it was just too short when considering sleeping pad thickness and bag loft. I contacted BA and they clarified that they measure length from stake point to stake point. Very creative marketing, but misleading and not helpful. I ultimately went with a Marmot Pulsar 1P and haven't looked back.
At 6.7 I would be looking at a company like Bearpaw. He'll make you a custom modular design at a decent price. His tents tend to be heavier than his specs but close enough.
earlyriser26
03-12-2015, 11:11
About 10 years ago I reduced the weight of every item I carried on hikes. The only item that I ever went back to was my old, full size, double walled, 2 person, tent. Saving a 1.5 lbs. gets you a body condom.
Old Hiker
03-12-2015, 12:32
I'm 6'2: and love the SoLong 6. Slight problems at the ends, like you said. Condensation in muggy FL. It's still a palace for me.
Slightly facetious: maybe TWO light weight tents, cut in two and the halves put together by a skilled tent maker? Just thinking (hard for me) out loud, sorta.
Also: ALPS Zephyr 1 - with the fly open, I had another 24(?) inches in the end. Might be buggy though. Fit me fairly well, otherwise.
Might be a vicious circle: not many TALL people backpack because there is no TALL gear because not enough TALL people backpack for the market....................Any entrepreneurs out there?
Offshore
03-12-2015, 13:03
About 10 years ago I reduced the weight of every item I carried on hikes. The only item that I ever went back to was my old, full size, double walled, 2 person, tent. Saving a 1.5 lbs. gets you a body condom.
So true. It seems to quickly be reaching the point where the goal of minimizing weight trumps functionality in a lot of gear. You can't really fit in it or count on it to last, but hey, its light and that's what looks good on the spec sheet...
My wife and I are storm magnets. Do you know anyone else that experienced a fierce overnight rainstorm with 3+ inches of pounding rain at the bottom of the Grand Canyon? Or 40 mph winds and driving rain/snow at 2 degree C in Iceland. Or violent thunderstorms almost every darn time we hike?
We have a range of tents from Gatewood cape, several tarp tents, to a sturdy 7 lb Sierra Designs tent with a fly. Be aware that the single wall sil-nylon tents "mist" through in a strong rain, soaking you. They are a fair weather option. A tent with a sturdy fly is worth its weight in gold in a big storm.
If you know that you are a storm magnet, take a little bit stouter tent.
mankind117
03-13-2015, 15:16
Sounds about where I am. It is remarkable what one extra pound will give you in terms of tent space.
About 10 years ago I reduced the weight of every item I carried on hikes. The only item that I ever went back to was my old, full size, double walled, 2 person, tent. Saving a 1.5 lbs. gets you a body condom.
Paddlefoot
03-13-2015, 16:15
I'm not sure what the OP means by "very tall", but I'm 6'2" and didn't fit in the CS1 that I tried a year or so ago. The BA marketing material claimed a length of 90" (at the time, one of the few that long), but when I set it up and staked it out, the interior length was more like 83" and with the slope of the end walls, it was just too short when considering sleeping pad thickness and bag loft. I contacted BA and they clarified that they measure length from stake point to stake point. Very creative marketing, but misleading and not helpful. I ultimately went with a Marmot Pulsar 1P and haven't looked back.
I'm glad I am not the only one to find those specs misleading. I ordered a Copper Spur UL2 right before my Colorado Trail thru in 2013 - paid for express shipping - and found the usable floorspace closer to be even less than that! I know BA is a good company, but the customer service rep got a little snotty when I called saying that the way they calculated their length was the "industry standard".
I searched here, found Lightheart, and they quickly sent me a SoLong 6 which served me very well for my month on the trail. Plenty of room for a tall dude, and I never experienced any serious condensation issues.
I love this tent!
For those 6'6" and 6'7" folk out there I suggest you take a look at the Tarptent Double Moment.
Full double wall, sets up fly and inner together, 84" of fully usable floor, the ends slope outward not inward.
Here is a shot with two 6' mats inside , note the extra free 1 foot at the end .
45" in the middle , 52 oz.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Double%20Moment/dm_3_zpswmllk6ug.jpg
http://www.tarptent.com/double-moment.html
franco@tarptent
MuddyWaters
03-15-2015, 19:46
When i hike with my son we sometimes take a 2 p 3 season tent. Split between two, its acceptable wt, and easier to stay dry in deluge. I sleep very very good in rainstorms in tents, less so in my UL tarp style shelters.
Wanderingventurer
04-14-2015, 20:41
There's a market out there for a XXlong 2 person tent, tall/big people, couples with a dog or child, 1 person with a couple of dogs, winter extra gear. I don't think it would too difficult to adjust a pattern for a longer tent or add an additional section of ridge pole to make it work.
In my opinion, that is what LHG did with the SoLong 6.
BTW, re-reading this thread and taking note of the many comments on condensation, the Tarptent Double Moment has a mesh inner however the roof area is made with a breathable but water resistant fabric so the fly will not drip on you.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Double%20Moment/dm_5%20solid%20roof_zpswm8vizoh.jpg
Note the huge end vents (that can be sealed up) for extra airflow at least one end can remain open even in wind driven rain.
franco@tarptent
Huge vents... ( I forgot to post the photo)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/dm_8_zpsjquphxfq.jpg