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damnhawk
03-17-2015, 19:09
Problem: Sore/achy feet after hiking some distance

Weight/pack

20-30 lbs in REI flash 45


Shoes

Altra Lone Peak 2.0
New Balance minimus trail runners, mt1010v2


distance

8-9 miles in to a 20-25 mile hike


trekking poles in use
Hiking weekends currently

10-20 miles a day


Florida trails

soft sand to hard pack to road walk



Does this slight bit of soreness go away, it really saps energy in the later miles. or is this simply my feet building strength as i admit, i've been slacking on hiking this winter.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

-Hawk

MuddyWaters
03-17-2015, 19:16
My feet have been sore before after high mileage days in a row. They always feel 100% the next morning

ChrisJackson
03-17-2015, 19:31
Temperature is a big factor for me. All winter long my feet were pretty good 'till it began to warm up. On warmer days in my winter socks...feet began to ache terribly. So, for me, this is a definite signal to change my sock type for the season.

damnhawk
03-17-2015, 19:34
Never thought that socks would have an impact!


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gbolt
03-17-2015, 19:36
Some of it is conditioning the Feet and general soreness does go away like any other part of the body. However, you may want to switch to another more supportive pair of footware and see if that helps.

New Balance minimus are not really training shoes but more competition runners. They rely on the build and pull of the laces to support the arch and foot structure. I loved the feel of them but knew that if I didn't train in another pair of shoes, I would probably end up with "shin splints" just hiking in those to start after the decreased miles of winter. My feet are pretty normal but age has caused me to place "Green Feet" into some of my shoes to battle a case of "Plantar Fasciatis". I moved away from the NB Minimus for the time being; yet, they will remain in the back of my mind as a possiblility for mid states on a Thru-Hike.

My opinion (not really insightful, lol) is to start with a more standard footbox for the first 100 miles or so of the season. I was impressed with Red Beards video that discussed the Brooks Cascadia 8. I myself have always been partial to Merrils and if my old ones finally bite the dust, I had my eye on the Moab series. Also, looking at the Chemeleon because of the lighter weight.

Shoes choice is so personal, try them on and make the best decision you can and maybe don't give up on the New Balance but shift them to a later time period. It is one thing I have learned that is different between "Runners" vs. "Hikers"; runners keep track of miles on each pair of shoes they own and they usually have more than just one pair.

P.S. Hiking 10-20 miles is no small feet! :p

ChrisJackson
03-17-2015, 19:41
Never thought that socks would have an impact!


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Yeah, I think if my feet aren't ventilating...they will swell, and the ache starts. Great thread. We'll probably get a lot of good advice on it.

damnhawk
03-17-2015, 19:42
The NB are trashed after about 100 miles. The Altra lone peaks are the current choice. I have a too small pair of Moab's. They are supportive!


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damnhawk
03-17-2015, 19:59
P.S. Hiking 10-20 miles is no small feet! :p

Thanks! Florida is flat... I maxed at about 13 miles on a section hike of the AT.


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Spirit Walker
03-17-2015, 22:09
Changing shoes and/or getting insoles could help. How old are your shoes? After a while, all shoes lose support, even if they don't look trashed. For some that's after 500 miles, for some only 200 or so. As your feet get stronger, you'll be able to go more miles without serious pain. You may always have some pain at the end of the day, but as long as you can do most of your hiking pain free, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you are in constant pain, then you'll need to look at what else might be happening.

damnhawk
03-17-2015, 22:12
The altras might have about 100 miles on them. And I'd say it's more soreness than pain or anything.

I was mostly wondering if the soreness starts later in the day the more I put the miles in.


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wornoutboots
03-17-2015, 22:25
Sounds like a zero is needed? Or back the mileage down a bit until your feet adjust. Good socks are very important! Good Luck!! ~Boots~

Pedaling Fool
03-18-2015, 05:51
My feet always hurt every time I started a new activity. When I first got into cycling my feet started hurting after my first 60-mile ride and the pain didn't go away until about 2 years later. I was an occasional hiker until 2006 when I started my thru and the foot pain lasted until about the 700-mile point. Then when I started running in 2007 the foot pains returned...

All you can do is what the coach says: Walk it off.

Smokestack
03-18-2015, 07:02
Lots of good advice - and not so good - in response to your question. Every foot is different, yada yada yada. But I do a ton of day hiking down here in PB county (10-20 miles each trip) and maybe can help.

Socks: After trying the usual options, I've found that sock liners work best. That won't make the soreness go away, but they sure feel good as the temperatures start going up.

Shoes: I've done a few hundred miles with the NB mt1010v2. Thought my feet would "grow into shape" with them. WRONG! The tongue constantly shifts, pulling the uppers out of line and causing your feet to twist. Also, there is not enough underfoot protection for our hard pack / broken asphalt trails (ie the Apoxee parking lot!). Best I've found that covers everything from canal walks to marsh wading to the O2L is the Saucony Xodus (and CHEAP, too) - but I usually carry Keen sandals and put them on for longer wet work. Merrell Moabs are ok, but too hot and rigid.

Poles: Absolutely! You need something to chase the raccoons and ferrel pigs away - and to pick your path through the pig patches.

You've been SLACKING this winter? You mean you like to pound ground in the SUMMER? Here? My kind of hiker! These mountain hikers don't realize how tough it is to do 3 miles in knee deep water at 95 degrees! :)

damnhawk
03-18-2015, 08:11
Sounds like a zero is needed? Or back the mileage down a bit until your feet adjust. Good socks are very important! Good Luck!! ~Boots~
Cant really zero on the type of hiking we do in Florida, generally just weekend stuff. and im actually planning a 3 day thru of the ocean to lake in Florida this weekend, 63 miles!


All you can do is what the coach says: Walk it off. thats what im gathering!


...I do a ton of day hiking down here in PB county (10-20 miles each trip) and maybe can help...

Socks: After trying the usual options, I've found that sock liners work best. That won't make the soreness go away, but they sure feel good as the temperatures start going up.

Shoes: I've done a few hundred miles with the NB mt1010v2...

You've been SLACKING this winter? You mean you like to pound ground in the SUMMER? Here? My kind of hiker! These mountain hikers don't realize how tough it is to do 3 miles in knee deep water at 95 degrees! :)

Smoke, drop me a PM and we can link up the social groups I hike with.

Socks: im using a mid-weight wool sock, worked well in the winter, but i guess i need to get some lightweight versions.
Shoes: the NB have a torn lug on the heel, they only exist in my closest for an emergency spare, or to do big cypress and get really beat up.
Slacking: I've been a bit of a crash test dummy since buying a mnt bike and an unrelated sprained ankle.

Lyle
03-18-2015, 10:02
In my experience, Backpacking = Sore Feet at the end of the day. Doesn't matter how long you have been hiking, or how conditioned you are. Since trail runners have become the norm this is MUCH LESS of a problem. Old-style, full leather boots were notoriously brutal, no matter how much you paid for them.

That is one of the things I miss from backpacking (but not willing to go back to :) ) is the absolute ecstasy one felt when one took off their boots at the end of the day. Nothing today compares!

Today, I find if at breaks I remove my boots and socks, air/dry/massage my feet throughout the day, the end of the day soreness is greatly reduced. Along with the lighter packs we carry, your feet should not be agonizingly sore. Try some better insoles. Original equipment insoles in most shoes are crap. I believe the manufacturers must assume folks will replace them.

Good Luck.

Traveler
03-18-2015, 10:15
For what its worth, when my feet start to hurt its usually associated with flat ground walking. This can be on pavement, hardpan, or just flat treadway for miles. When there is some modest up and down involved, it seems I don't get that level of foot pain. The pain (more an ache really) tends to go away overnight when I get it. Could be if you added some climbs and descents you would fare better.

colorado_rob
03-18-2015, 10:19
Obviously everyone is quite different, but for another data point in my case at least, even though I hike all the time, probably closing in on 20,000 trail miles total, the answer is, and pretty much has always been: No.

While hiking my feet are always a little sore, sometime fairly sore, but always manageable. Thankfully, never ever any blisters (in the last 20 years, at least), I think this is the one foot aspect that you can eliminate, simply by hiking a lot and wearing proper socks and shoes/boots.

FWIW: for a couple years I had fairly extreme soreness, getting worse, I finally got it checked out, it was Metatarsalgia (inflamed metatarsals, the tendons running along the bottom of your feet). Actual medical orthodics (as opposed to over-the-counter inserts) nearly instantly cured that extreme soreness, after that it was back to "normal soreness".

I don't seem to notice any difference in foot soreness when I wear my "trail runners" (most of the time) vs. fairly substantial boots (for snow climbs and general winter hiking). My "trail runners" have a fairly substantial stiff sole (merrell chameleons). When I try to wear "regular" trail runners (like NB trail runners), my feet do get substantially more sore on long days. The stiff sole Merrells seem to help a lot, again, just my own situation, and just another data point.

colorado_rob
03-18-2015, 10:23
For what its worth, when my feet start to hurt its usually associated with flat ground walking. This can be on pavement, hardpan, or just flat treadway for miles. When there is some modest up and down involved, it seems I don't get that level of foot pain...this is so very true for myself and lots of my ultra-hike friends as well, in fact our typical training regimen for upcoming ultra hikes (for example, our Grand Canyon Rim-rim-rim in early April) involve walking long miles on completely flat trails around our city (Denver, flattest city I've ever seen). We've found 20-25 flat miles (extremely tough to do) equals 35-40+ hilly miles in terms of foot soreness. Hard to believe, but true (in our case).

damnhawk
03-23-2015, 18:34
Over the weekend I hiked 48.2 miles of the Ocean to Lake Trail in Florida. 2 days where in the 20 mile range and my feet killed at the end of the day, but seemed perfect by morning. Got picked up by a trail angel around mile 10 for the day, as my pace was putting the end time way later than I needed.

Funny thing this morning was how sore my feet were on the tile of my apt. I totally must've bruised them pushing like that.

Need to press on with day hikes to build the strength in the feet it seems.


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fredmugs
03-25-2015, 10:25
I tried switching from Moab Ventilators to lighter NB models and find they are no good when carrying any weight. I have several models including 1210s and they are pretty much only good for slacking. You should check out the Hoka line of shoes. Very comfortable but unfortunately for me they do not come in wide widths. Speaking of wide widths you may want to get a wider width shoe that you would normally wear for just walking.

damnhawk
03-25-2015, 10:27
Yeah, I'm looking at replacing my 5.10 guide tennies I wear around the office with something from Altra.


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DLP
03-25-2015, 13:46
It is hard on the feet to go from an office chair to 10-20 mile days. I've heard that it isn't the muscles.... it is the tendons and ligaments and tiny bones and nerves that all taking a beating. And skin, if you are getting blisters.

I've heard recommendations to stay at or below 10 miles a day for the first 500 miles of a thru hike to avoid injury.

I can't remember the PCT Trail Journal I read... I think it was Garlic's. His feet stopped hurting about 3 months after he finished his thru. Or maybe the feeling came back to his feet 3 months after he finished? Really made me think that thru hiking and big mileage days for months are not for me. :)

My biggest downfall can be comparing myself to what other people do. Given that this is hiking, your milage may/will vary from mine and everybody else's.... both literally and figuratively. ;)

Del Q
03-26-2015, 06:26
My $.03

I hiked in lightweight shoes last fall, feet fell like ground hamburger meat - wounds up hiking with 2 pairs of socks, that helped. Just got back from Spring section hike (110 miles), not nearly as painful - bought low-top Keen's, tons more support.

A few things that help me........

1. Unless it is raining I take a 45-60 minute break in the middle of the day, shoes and socks off, air them out, give them a break.
2. Everytime I change socks, massage the bottom of my feet. Feels great.
3. Soak bare feet in creeks as often as you can.
4. ELEVATE feet, when I take breaks I put my legs and feet over my pack or park my feet up on a log or against a tree.
5. There is a stretch that I started doing like 5+ years ago, also seems to help, kind of hard to explain but I will put the toes of one shoe on a rock or a root - point foot straight up and down and press FORWARD. This seems to stretch the bottom of my feet and shins, kind of the opposite move than walking all day long.

jawnzee
03-26-2015, 09:00
I can't remember the PCT Trail Journal I read... I think it was Garlic's. His feet stopped hurting about 3 months after he finished his thru. Or maybe the feeling came back to his feet 3 months after he finished? Really made me think that thru hiking and big mileage days for months are not for me. :)

This is similar to my experience as well. My feet hurt all the time when thru hiking. Well, a dull ache really, but definitely noticeable. But not really a big deal. As one discomfort fades away another comes in. You just learn accept it and keep walking.

Bronk
03-26-2015, 09:33
When I went through basic training in the army my feet were mostly numb by the time I was done. I'd only feel them in the morning when they first touched the floor and they felt like somebody smashed them with a hammer...after a few minutes they'd go numb again. It took a full six months before I regained feeling in my big toes. Peter Jenkins often wrote in his journal "FFLH" which stood for Feet Feel Like Hamburger.

Trying to hike in sand is a whole different ball game. It will take your feet some time to adjust.

shelb
03-27-2015, 23:57
My biggest downfall can be comparing myself to what other people do. ..... ;)

Avoid doing this!!!! HYOH!

Wyoming
04-19-2015, 18:27
As you can see from the varied answers there is no one answer. This is almost always the case when it comes to long distance hiking issues. Here is my take.

You have to pay close attention to your own body and how it reacts to different stresses. And act accordingly.

1. Conditioning is very important and what you can get away with when you have taken time to get your body in shape (feet need to do that also) is much different than if you just jump into things with no thoughts. Hike a lot of miles early, on say the AT, with light shoes and many people (not all) are going to have big problems. Give your feet a chance to adapt to the new normal.

2. Light shoes are often not the best choice and you may be much better off with harder soled shoes (no boots though). When I hiked the AT is was very informative the number of people switching out of the NB, Montrail Hard Rocks (one of the shoes of choice that year - and mine), etc at about Harpers Ferry because their feet hurt so bad. This is when I switched to harder soled shoes and have never gone back (for me they are WAY better than the very light shoes in terms of how much my feet hurt). Depending on where and when you are hiking it often changes what shoe is the best choice also. Where I hike now (the AZT and other very rough desert trails in AZ) NB type light shoes are a very poor choice not just because they are not good in the bad rocks but because one gets real tired of cactus spines coming through the mesh sides. All leather with hard soles is by far more suitable here - imho.

3. Even if you take time to get in good hiking shape before embarking on a long trip and are careful about mileage for the first 3-400 miles there is a very good chance that your feet are going to get increasingly sore. Mine slowly got more painful over time as I moved towards Maine (though I am sure that making the mistake of the light shoes made it worse). Almost everyone I knew on the AT that year had very sore feet at the end. It is very common to have a lot of numbness in various toes which may not go away for several months after a very long hike like the AT. In my case the only toes which had full feeling when I finished the AT were my big ones and all of the numbness did not leave them for at least 3 months after the hike.

4. As you age everything changes also. What works when you are 20 will not likely work later. Accept it and adjust.

damnhawk
04-19-2015, 20:14
I'm gonna chalk it up to repetitive use and a lack of conditioning. I'll know better for the next Florida hiking season.


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