View Full Version : Section Hiking the Great Smoky Mountains
Hi everyone!
I'm planning a trip to section hike part of the AT and would like some advise from experienced members.
I have 11 days off and plan to be on the trail for 5~7 days total at the end of June.
Do I need to apply for a permit to hike through the Great Smoky Mountains during this time?
What route would you suggest for this many days?
Can I drop off a rental car at the start and get a drive back from the end of the trip? Is this the common way to do it?
Are warm cloths required?
What is the #1 item you think people forget to bring that is really useful on the trail?
This is my first post so I would like to thank you for your time you took answering my questions. This will be my first time hiking part of the AT and i'm really excited to get the time off to do it. I'd love to Thru-Hike the trail in the future but at this point in my life the option has not presented itself to me.
Walkintom
03-18-2015, 12:56
GSMNP is one of the most visited areas that the AT travels through.
The southern section is inacessible by car once you leave Fontana Dam.
You must sleep in the designated shelters.
I would advise going and doing SNP instead. It's much more accessible along its length to get on and off. The terrain is easier but very pretty and most people would enjoy it more than the smokies.
To your first question, if you're not an AT thru-hiker, you'll need to get a permit for the specific shelter/campsite you'll be at each night on the GSMNP website. IIRC, it's $4 a night for those. On the AT itself there are no campsites, but you can use side trails to access those each night if you prefer. There is no dispersed camping in the park.
GSMNP is one of the most visited areas that the AT travels through.
The southern section is inacessible by car once you leave Fontana Dam.
You must sleep in the designated shelters.
I would advise going and doing SNP instead. It's much more accessible along its length to get on and off. The terrain is easier but very pretty and most people would enjoy it more than the smokies.
What is SNP? Does this trail still have a lot of "wow factor"?
Shenandoah National Park in VA.
wornoutboots
03-18-2015, 13:38
To your first question, if you're not an AT thru-hiker, you'll need to get a permit for the specific shelter/campsite you'll be at each night on the GSMNP website.
Actually if you're a long distant hiker starting or ending 50 miles outside the park is where shelter reservations are not required. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. The AT does not have specific rules for "thru-hikers" since no one is a thru-hiker until they've complete the trail.
Without a lot "opinions" on my part about hiking in the GSMNP...... I, however, would suggest NOT Hiking in GSMNP as a first hike. Permits, required shelter use and the crowds for me way out-weight my hiker enjoyment. The permit system alone makes for additional complications and possible forced marches from shelter to shelter. (Not my thing) The "wow factor" for me was the visit into Gatlinburg! Wow - what an "Interesting" and Overwhelming place! What ever you choose, have a great hike!
Actually if you're a long distant hiker starting or ending 50 miles outside the park is where shelter reservations are not required. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. The AT does not have specific rules for "thru-hikers" since no one is a thru-hiker until they've complete the trail.
Correct, though we're both referring to the same thing - GSMNP uses the thru-hiker permit for anyone travelling 50 miles on either end of the park specifically via the AT. It sounds like that wouldn't apply to the OP.
AT Thru-Hiker Backcountry Permit Regulations (https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=2)
full conditions
03-18-2015, 14:34
MJ - I live on the edge of the park and have been hiking the Smokies for about 30 years now and IMHO June is a pretty good month up in the high country along the state line. If it were my 10-11 days, I'd leave out of Cades Cove and head up to Gregory Bald on the Forge Creek Trail (virgin forest and great campsites both partway up and on the summit + Gregory Bald has a world famous azalea garden in flower in mid-June); then I'd hike the connector trail over to the AT and follow the AT north (with an overnight side trip to Mt Leconte - amazing sunset and sunrise); once you get to Tricorner Knob shelter, take the Balsam Mountain trail out to Laurel Gap Shelter and next day travel down Gunter Fork tr. past the cascades (highest in the park) to Big Creek - one of the best swimming holes in the world is on Big Creek and would make a really nice place to exit your hike. This route will give you a nice variety of ecosystems and experiences while keeping you at higher elevations (where the temps will be lower). Best of luck.
wornoutboots
03-18-2015, 14:36
Correct, though we're both referring to the same thing - GSMNP uses the thru-hiker permit for anyone travelling 50 miles on either end of the park specifically via the AT. It sounds like that wouldn't apply to the OP.
AT Thru-Hiker Backcountry Permit Regulations (https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=2)
Agreed. Sorry, I was coming down on you, I was just making sure it wasn't confusing to others reading this because when the term "thru-hikers" is used a lot people think they can or can't do certain things on the trail because they aren't "thru-hikers". When in reality a hiker is a hiker with only a few exceptions in sections of the trail such as the Smokies reservation system that is determined by distance.
MJ - I live on the edge of the park and have been hiking the Smokies for about 30 years now and IMHO June is a pretty good month up in the high country along the state line. If it were my 10-11 days, I'd leave out of Cades Cove and head up to Gregory Bald on the Forge Creek Trail (virgin forest and great campsites both partway up and on the summit + Gregory Bald has a world famous azalea garden in flower in mid-June); then I'd hike the connector trail over to the AT and follow the AT north (with an overnight side trip to Mt Leconte - amazing sunset and sunrise); once you get to Tricorner Knob shelter, take the Balsam Mountain trail out to Laurel Gap Shelter and next day travel down Gunter Fork tr. past the cascades (highest in the park) to Big Creek - one of the best swimming holes in the world is on Big Creek and would make a really nice place to exit your hike. This route will give you a nice variety of ecosystems and experiences while keeping you at higher elevations (where the temps will be lower). Best of luck.
Thanks a bunch for your insight, full conditions. How many days do you think this would take to complete? I'm from FL so I have to take the drive into consideration as well as maybe a day or so buffer to get ready to dive back into things.
NOTE: I'd really like to stick with the smokies if possible. The idea of staying overnight in a shelter really doesn't bother me as much as other people. I'm a people person anyways.
illabelle
03-18-2015, 15:44
Mr. Jiff,
Since you're driving up, you can leave a car at one end, get a shuttle to the other end, and pick up your car when you leave. Be aware, the shuttle cost will be expensive. Look up the section hiker page on www.appalachiantrail.org and find the link to parking and shuttles. Contact one of the names and ask for a price. If money isn't an issue, you could start at Newfound Gap in the middle of the park and hike one-half, then shuttle back to Newfound Gap for the other half. There's a steep climb at each end of the park; doing two down-hill halves makes them much easier if you're not used to hills.
Yes, you have to get a permit and reservation for each shelter you'll be using, but the thru-hiker crowd is gone by late June, so it shouldn't be impossible to get a reasonable itinerary. Reservations can't be made more than 30 days in advance. Visit the park website and learn the rules so you aren't surprised later.
I wouldn't expect to be cold hiking the Smokies in late June, but I would have long pants/sleeves and a light jacket at the least. Mornings will be cool, and a passing thunderstorm can cool things down a lot also.
The AT is the most heavily traveled route through the park, but you could also work out a loop so you don't have to arrange a shuttle. This link goes to a clickable PDF trail map: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/upload/GSMNP-Map_JUNE14-complete4-2.pdf . If you do something other than the AT, you still have to follow the permit and registration process.
As far as what people tend to forget - it's usually the opposite problem: people bringing too much stuff. Bring what you need to be safe, comfortable, fed, etc, but minimize the weight. Carrying a heavy pack up the mountain will kill your vacation quicker than anything.
junglecat
03-18-2015, 16:00
This is a tough hike for your first major backpacking trip. The first 8 miles in basically uphill. The rewards of the trip are pretty amazing, awesome views, awesome wildlife possibilities, and a chance to meet new friends. The thru-hiker bubble will have passed by late June. Always be prepared for cooler temps in the Smokies. Most of your hike will be above 5000ft. Fontana Dam to Davenport Gap (I-40) can be done in 5-7 days. It's approximately 75 miles. I've done this section before and I'm hiking Fontana Dam to Newfound Gap (1/2 way) with my 13 year old daughter next week. You must stay in the shelters and make reservations. Plan on booking (online) a month in advance. I wouldn't want to say what the shuttle back to Fontana Dam will cost. Be prepared to spend $200. It is close to 200 miles by road for your driver. Call Curtis at Standing Bear Farm/Hostel 423-608-0149. He's just across the interstate at Davenport Gap and knows the area as well as anyone. One item: Don't forget ear plugs for the shelters ;)
Starchild
03-18-2015, 17:36
Actually if you're a long distant hiker starting or ending 50 miles outside the park is where shelter reservations are not required. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. The AT does not have specific rules for "thru-hikers" since no one is a thru-hiker until they've complete the trail.
According to ATC a thru hiker includes a hiker attempting a thru hike, so they are a thru hiker till they don't reach Katahdin (or their terminus) or quit. It is the attempt of the thru hike that starts it and failure that ends it.
Also it is not the reason that GSMNP did it but it needed a reasonable (legal) definition of a thru hiker, and one who may have difficulty of reserving specific shelters for specific days and settled on the 50 mile definition.
Curtis is no longer with us but the hostel may still run shuttle...
Or try the hike inn which is near Fontana and will do shuttles...
i did it with them about 6 years ago and it was 125 for one person
Starchild
03-18-2015, 17:41
Do I need to apply for a permit to hike through the Great Smoky Mountains during this time?
Technically, no, you only need a permit for sleeping at night at a backcountry shelter or campsite. You can sleep during the day permit free, and you can walk thru the day and night without one. I have met some that have chosen to hike at night and sleep during the day to avoid the permit system. As a former Ridgerunner for this park I was told directly by my supervisor that that is allowed.
MuddyWaters
03-18-2015, 20:30
Hi everyone!
I'm planning a trip to section hike part of the AT and would like some advise from experienced members.
I have 11 days off and plan to be on the trail for 5~7 days total at the end of June.
Do I need to apply for a permit to hike through the Great Smoky Mountains during this time?
What route would you suggest for this many days?
Can I drop off a rental car at the start and get a drive back from the end of the trip? Is this the common way to do it?
Are warm cloths required?
What is the #1 item you think people forget to bring that is really useful on the trail?
This is my first post so I would like to thank you for your time you took answering my questions. This will be my first time hiking part of the AT and i'm really excited to get the time off to do it. I'd love to Thru-Hike the trail in the future but at this point in my life the option has not presented itself to me.
7 days is an average pace thru the AT on the smokies for normal hikers. Shelters are spaced to permit this.
Id just park at big creek ranger station, and get a shuttle to Fontana, and start walking with 7 days food.
Paying for leaving a rental car sitting a week is ......painful.
You need some warm clothes. Lows in 40s possible at highest elevation.
Yes, you need reservations in the shelters, so you have to plan your hike, and hike your plan.
Make reservations 30day in advance, as soon as possible. Its not crowded, because shelter space is limited. 12 per shelter basically.
You must stay abreast of water situation, and shelter situations. Water issues gets posted at trailheads. Shelters can get closed due to problem bear issues, and your reservations can be moved , sometimes WAY off the trail to a campsite several miles out of your way, and downhill. Just have to roll with it if it occurs.
full conditions
03-19-2015, 07:06
Thanks a bunch for your insight, full conditions. How many days do you think this would take to complete? I'm from FL so I have to take the drive into consideration as well as maybe a day or so buffer to get ready to dive back into things.
NOTE: I'd really like to stick with the smokies if possible. The idea of staying overnight in a shelter really doesn't bother me as much as other people. I'm a people person anyways.
The trip I described (minus the side trip to Mt LeConte) can be comfortably done in 7 nights 8 days - 1st night on gregory bald at campsite 13 then subsequent nights at AT shelters until the turn off for the Balsam Mountain Trail. Last day I'd hike the 10 miles out via Gunter Fork and Big Creek - all down hill + a world class swimming hole near the end to cool off in. A couple other bits of advice (since you asked), I'd do everything in my power to skip Icewater Spring Shelter and push on to Pecks Corner Shelter and do consider a night at Mt Collins instead of Double Springs Gap Shelter. The AT thru the Smokies does get a lot of use - its high and wild and exquisitely beautiful. And remember, the permit system keeps the numbers down to a dull roar.
Thanks everyone for all the information provided. I will plan accordingly. :)
mtntopper
03-19-2015, 19:44
Technically, no, you only need a permit for sleeping at night at a backcountry shelter or campsite. You can sleep during the day permit free, and you can walk thru the day and night without one. I have met some that have chosen to hike at night and sleep during the day to avoid the permit system. As a former Ridgerunner for this park I was told directly by my supervisor that that is allowed.
This just a way to avoid buying a permit. Do the right thing and get on.
Starchild
03-20-2015, 07:16
This just a way to avoid buying a permit. Do the right thing and get on.
It's also a way not to get locked in to a route and to have a flexible itinerary. Like the flexibility of the thru hiker permit, it is good to have such a option as one size does not fit all and some people really need that ability for spontaneity.
mtntopper
03-20-2015, 16:38
It's also a way not to get locked in to a route and to have a flexible itinerary. Like the flexibility of the thru hiker permit, it is good to have such a option as one size does not fit all and some people really need that ability for spontaneity.
Your so funny. Hike at night and sleep during the day just to avoid paying the fee for a permit. Ok, so you have a flexible itinerary. You see nothing by sleeping the day away and hiking at night. Oh, yes the night lights!
Starchild
03-20-2015, 17:45
Your so funny. Hike at night and sleep during the day just to avoid paying the fee for a permit. Ok, so you have a flexible itinerary. You see nothing by sleeping the day away and hiking at night. Oh, yes the night lights!
Night hiking can be spectacular and peaceful. Also the motivation I found was not the fee but the hassle, pre-planing, and the locked in itinerary that was the main motivation for such a permit-less hike.
The ones who were avoiding the fee system were simply ignoring it and doing what they wanted to do and stayed where ever they wanted each night.
Big difference here in the type of hiker, the first was following the rules and did so in a respectful way that allowed them to enjoy the hike, the second just ignored all the rules. Please do not lump them together.
And this I feel is a great example of what a Ridgerunner is for, to understand what really goes on out there and relay it. This gives those who set policy needed information to establish rules and target educational efforts to reach the hikers, along to understand more of how hikers are responding to those efforts and how thye are adjusting to them.
mtntopper
03-20-2015, 18:16
Night hiking can be spectacular and peaceful. Also the motivation I found was not the fee but the hassle, pre-planing, and the locked in itinerary that was the main motivation for such a permit-less hike.
The ones who were avoiding the fee system were simply ignoring it and doing what they wanted to do and stayed where ever they wanted each night.
Big difference here in the type of hiker, the first was following the rules and did so in a respectful way that allowed them to enjoy the hike, the second just ignored all the rules. Please do not lump them together.
And this I feel is a great example of what a Ridgerunner is for, to understand what really goes on out there and relay it. This gives those who set policy needed information to establish rules and target educational efforts to reach the hikers, along to understand more of how hikers are responding to those efforts and how thye are adjusting to them.
Playing word games. The result is the same. Both types of hikers are avoiding the fees. In your post you stated that you knew hikers who hiked at night to avoid the fees. Respectful way or otherwise it is done to avoid the fees. This is what you said. I stand by my post. This thread is not about peaceful night hiking. It is about the permit system in the park.
Starchild
03-20-2015, 18:43
Playing word games. The result is the same. Both types of hikers are avoiding the fees. In your post you stated that you knew hikers who hiked at night to avoid the fees. Respectful way or otherwise it is done to avoid the fees. This is what you said. I stand by my post. This thread is not about peaceful night hiking. It is about the permit system in the park.
Well without looking at it, the main feature was not having to deal with the fee system and all it entailed, so i would like to correct my previous post and amend it. Thank you for pointing this out.
And yes it is about the permit system (as you state), but also about humanity and various needs of us all. The permit system does not work for all of us and excludes many whos needs would fall outside that, but should be able to enjoy the park, this somewhat corrects for it.
And avoiding the fees does not equal illegal or immoral (this was also the immediately expressed view of my supervisor when I reported such hiking).
Simply enough these are people following rules and laws enjoying our national park.
Emerson Bigills
03-20-2015, 21:04
The AT through the GSMNP has some restrictions that require a higher level of planning and limit some trail flexibility, but there are some spectacular views and it is a great experience. It is one of the really unique sections of the southern trail and has some highlights almost every day. I loved it.
Not trying to hijack this thread, but someone mentioned camping on side trails to limit the need for reservations. I have put off this hike due to this, but cannot for much longer. I sleep in a hammock and avoid shelters if possible. Would it be fairly easy to plan a hike using the side trails as a place to put up my hammock? One note, I plan on doing half of the park each time, starting at the mid point.
You'd have to check the map and see how it compares to the mileage you're looking for. It can dictate your plans a bit, e.g. on the southern end you'd have to do about 12 miles to get from campsite 9 to 26, then about the same again to get to 68. Using the shelters gives you more flexibility in that regard.
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/upload/GSMNP-Map_JUNE14-complete4-2.pdf
illabelle
03-23-2015, 13:31
Not trying to hijack this thread, but someone mentioned camping on side trails to limit the need for reservations. I have put off this hike due to this, but cannot for much longer. I sleep in a hammock and avoid shelters if possible. Would it be fairly easy to plan a hike using the side trails as a place to put up my hammock? One note, I plan on doing half of the park each time, starting at the mid point.
Doesn't work that way, unfortunately. Throughout the park you are required to reserve space, not just on the AT. And you have to be at a shelter or designated campsite, not just wherever you find a nice spot. Also consider that to camp on a side trail means hiking a considerable distance downhill (and then back up the next morning).
I just checked current reservation status on a few locations of the AT going south from NFG. There are spaces available. Keep in mind that even though thru-hikers will be out in mass, regular people still find this time of year too cold for mountaintop camping. Check it out: https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=1
Starchild
03-23-2015, 14:28
Not trying to hijack this thread, but someone mentioned camping on side trails to limit the need for reservations. I have put off this hike due to this, but cannot for much longer. I sleep in a hammock and avoid shelters if possible. Would it be fairly easy to plan a hike using the side trails as a place to put up my hammock? One note, I plan on doing half of the park each time, starting at the mid point.
You can reserve and hammock at a campsite (from the park's standpoint a hammock is a tent) - so you still need a reservation. Problem is except for Campsite 113 on the AT, most are substantially lower in elevation then the AT, meaning adding a lot more vertical to your hike. If that's OK with you then it's a option. It would also be possible to slackpack it in sections using access trails, but this would involve a lot more vertical and millage but possible.
personally, if one has never hiked the park before----it would be a crying shame to hike at night and sleep in day.........total waste..
with that being said---yes, i have hiked at night but on trails ive done before (going to leconte to see sunrise).....
also, while it technically may be legal to sleep during day and hike at night-----you will still get asked by a ranger for a permit...
trust me----i did..............i had a permit and was sleeping in the day in a shelter, and ranger woke me up to look at permit........
mtntopper
03-23-2015, 17:09
personally, if one has never hiked the park before----it would be a crying shame to hike at night and sleep in day.........total waste..
with that being said---yes, i have hiked at night but on trails ive done before (going to leconte to see sunrise).....
also, while it technically may be legal to sleep during day and hike at night-----you will still get asked by a ranger for a permit...
trust me----i did..............i had a permit and was sleeping in the day in a shelter, and ranger woke me up to look at permit........
Same thing happened to me. I had my permit as well. I BELIEVE the intent of the regulation is that anyone camping in the backcountry have a permit. Whether sleeping day or night.
HooKooDooKu
03-23-2015, 18:20
Not trying to hijack this thread, but someone mentioned camping on side trails to limit the need for reservations.
That used to be true a few years ago when only "popular" camp sites (which included all shelters) required reservation. But since 2013, ALL campsites in GSMNP require a reservation.
What's even worst is that even if you are a thru-hiker that qualifies for a thru permit, those permits are only valid for campsites along the AT. So regardless of your thru-status, if you want to stay at Off-AT campsites in GSMNP, you're required to have a general permit with reservations for specific nights at specific camp sites.
Rather than trying to thru-hike the AT and stay at off-AT campsites, you'd be better off thru-hiking the BMT.
So if you don't want to stay at the shelters in the GSMNP along the AT, but still want to thru-hike the Smokies, you're b
What's even worst is that even if you are a thru-hiker that qualifies for a thru permit, those permits are only valid for campsites along the AT.
but realistically, how many thru hikers are going to detour off the trail to hit a different campsite?
i would suspect that since there really aren't any nearby campsites off the at----that most hikers wouldn't want to add the additonal mileage.....
Questions:
Would you recommend that I leave a vehicle at the North end, get a shuttle service to the south and hike north? Or Leave the vehicle at the South end and hike north, to be shuttled when I've completed the trip?
Why would someone recommend ear plugs at the shelters? It is for bugs crawling in there or for the noise from the other hikers?
No worries about sleeping during the day. I plan to witness all the glory the GSNP has to offer bright and sunny. Just like here in Florida.
Thanks for the help guys. This is a great community.
HooKooDooKu
05-13-2015, 14:14
My personal preference is to always be shuttled at the start of the trip and have my car waiting at the destination. That way, I'm not on a time table to finish my hike.
Ear plugs would be for other hikers that might snore.
My personal preference is to always be shuttled at the start of the trip and have my car waiting at the destination. That way, I'm not on a time table to finish my hike.
Ear plugs would be for other hikers that might snore.
Ok, thank you for the info. I think it will be nice having the peace of mind knowing my vehicle is waiting at the destination as well.
I was scanning through some other threads here and noticed some people who hang their entire pack, some that just hang food + cooking utensil, and some that hang their food, cookware, and anything that could be associated with cooking (cloths worn). What do you think?
Why would someone recommend ear plugs at the shelters? It is for bugs crawling in there or for the noise from the other hikers?
mainly for other hikers farts and snores....and if you to sleep later than sunrise...
and of course it helps diffuse the sounds of mice----as in, if ya can't here em---they are there......right?
mainly for other hikers farts and snores....and if you to sleep later than sunrise...
and of course it helps diffuse the sounds of mice----as in, if ya can't here em---they are there......right?
I guess i'll have to double up for some nose plugs as well. ahhahaha. Maybe i'll pack some protein powder and give them some competition!
Dang it---should say AREN'T there...
MuddyWaters
05-13-2015, 21:55
Questions:
Would you recommend that I leave a vehicle at the North end, get a shuttle service to the south and hike north? Or Leave the vehicle at the South end and hike north, to be shuttled when I've completed the trip?
Why would someone recommend ear plugs at the shelters? It is for bugs crawling in there or for the noise from the other hikers?
No worries about sleeping during the day. I plan to witness all the glory the GSNP has to offer bright and sunny. Just like here in Florida.
Thanks for the help guys. This is a great community.
Usually the preferable way is hike to your vehicle.
. Especially if you will end in a remote place. If you end at a convenient place, like standing bear where they can shuttle you , or fontana dam with jeff@ hike inn just down rd a couple miles, i dont think it matters so much. Having somewhere to hang out besides the side of a road, is the difference.
also, by hiking back to your car----you can set your own schedule....
as in, one doesnt have to hit a appointed time for shuttle........
but, the examples muddywaters gave will work out as well..........