Rocks along the AT in Pennsylvania.

[chiefiepoo]

I'm planning a section hike from DWG, south, to Carlisle in May. I've read about rocky trail conditions along the PA section of the trail. I wonder if those conditions prevail along the entire PA section or wether a specific section, north, south , central is worse / better than the others. I'm not seeing a lot of elevation change along this section so I don't want to assume that there might not be other challenges. Also, has anyone used one of the Harrisburg based Capitol Area transit routes to move from Carlisle back to AMTRAK in Harrisburg ?

[Malto]

They get progressively worse as you head north.

[Lyle]

Agree with Malto. The worst rock problem for me was the section between DWG and Lehigh Gap. Small, grapefruit size rocks that twisted your feet around and rolled underneath your foot. No way to avoid them, the entire forest floor was covered with them, including the trail. Further south, the rocks are more of a slanted slab sticking out of the ground or larger boulder fields. Still not fun, but easier to navigate (except maybe when wet).

Not saying this to discourage you. The worst of it was the five miles or so immediately south of DWG. Just plan to slow down and use care placing your feet for this section. None of it really lives up to all the negative hype.

[Walkintom]

Southern PA was not bad.

Northern PA made up for that, with interest. Stoopid rocks.

[GoldenBear]

> I wonder if those conditions prevail along the entire PA section

No, but they CAN get pretty bad.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=50496
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=50495
Note that these are NOT the worst rock sections in the state -- those come further north.


> has anyone used one of the Harrisburg based Capitol Area transit routes to move from Carlisle back to AMTRAK in Harrisburg?

No, but I've done the opposite -- Amtrak Station to Carlisle.
The pdf's I link to should give enough info.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/85654-Information-on-Carlisle-Middlesex-PA?highlight=

[evyck da fleet]

I thought the rocky section started just after Pulpit Rock in PA, got progressively worse until DWG and was still a pain until I reached whatever state park HQ is in NJ just before the monument near the trail.

[Nimbus]

Rumor has it that all the beautiful farmland in central PA is there because they moved all the rocks to the mountain ridge lines…..then, since it was no good for anything else, the decision was made to place the AT over them. Seriously, I agree with evyck da fleet. Most everything north of Duncannon, PA
is intermittently to severely rocky. Plan for slower travel, torn up boots, and watch the ankles.

[Stepinwolfe]

As others have noted, the rocks in PA get increasingly worse north of the Susquehanna River. Although the PA section of the AT is relatively flat (except for river valleys), the rocks can really slow you down. Interestingly, in many areas, there is a terrain perfectly suitable for an alternate trail (with few or no rocks) just 50 meters or so to the side of the actual rocky trail. I’m not sure why this happened—maybe the trail makers/maintainers are attempting to decrease the probably of erosion or there is some issue with land use. Water can be scarce, especially in late summer/early fall in the NE section. And watch out for the rattlesnakes. They love to sun themselves on the rocks on hot days. There are great trail towns in PA, so you will have a good hike.

[RockDoc]

If you want to know WHY PA has nasty rock fields, let me tell you.

The Pleistocene glacial limit was at the Delaware Water Gap. The continental ice sheets reached from Canada all the way down through New England but stopped near the current PA line. However, the local climate near the ice sheets, for a few hundred miles south, was still cold and had a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. We call this a periglacial environment and there are specific landforms associated with it. One is the "devil's racecourses" produced by millions of freeze/thaw cycles operating on the local rock outcrops. In some cases these rock accumulations had ice cores, and flowed downhill like real ice glaciers. In the Rockies we have actual rock glaciers with ice cores, which also date from the late Pleistocene when the climate was colder and wetter (often they grew in glaciated valleys after the alpine glaciers melted away).

So these are relict landforms of an ancient Pleistocene periglacial climate. Today you would have to go to Alaska or northern Canada to find those climate conditions. Conditions warmed up 10-20,000 years ago, when the glaciers meted away (as they already waxed and waned a few other times throughout the Pleistocene).

This is why the rock fields are covered by fairly large lichen plants. Often you can't even trace the loose rocks to any outcrops. The shattering mechanism was so effective that everything was thoroughly shattered, unless you dig straight down for a hundred feet or so. The rock fields are indicators of a certain past climate, and this is supported by what we call weathering criteria--lichen, plant growth, soils, etc. I think that it's pretty cool that you can walk around on a landscape that formed over 10,000 years ago. Just try not to stumble on the rocks!

RockDoc

[Traveler]

That was my second guess.....

[TomN]

It's not that big a of a deal, the rock sections come and go, it's not solid rocks for 50 miles or anything.

[peakbagger]

It's not that big a of a deal, the rock sections come and go, it's not solid rocks for 50 miles or anything.

It just feels like it :)

I live and hike in the whites which have a lot of rocks. When I step on a rock in the whites I have reasonable expectation that its not going anywhere, its the exact opposite in PA. Granted our trails are steeper but PA wins hands down for treacherous footing when in the rocky sections.

[show me the monkey]

I thought the rocky section started just after Pulpit Rock in PA, got progressively worse until DWG and was still a pain until I reached whatever state park HQ is in NJ just before the monument near the trail.

This is pretty much the case. After the Eckville road crossing, you should expect sporadic boulder fields all the way to DWG. Not a problem if your ankles are in shape.

[rjjones]

Tomn,your a PA guy like myself so i bet you've hiked a lot of the AT in pa many times over.And your correct in saying there are stretches of rocks.But,i look at it like stretches of rocks with short areas of pathway in between.It wears me and my back down.That being said,it wont scare me off.There are many cool sections like the climb south out of DWG.Or the climb north from lehigh gap.Fun stuff.

[full conditions]

If you want to know WHY PA has nasty rock fields, let me tell you.

The Pleistocene glacial limit was at the Delaware Water Gap. The continental ice sheets reached from Canada all the way down through New England but stopped near the current PA line. However, the local climate near the ice sheets, for a few hundred miles south, was still cold and had a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. We call this a periglacial environment and there are specific landforms associated with it. One is the "devil's racecourses" produced by millions of freeze/thaw cycles operating on the local rock outcrops. In some cases these rock accumulations had ice cores, and flowed downhill like real ice glaciers. In the Rockies we have actual rock glaciers with ice cores, which also date from the late Pleistocene when the climate was colder and wetter (often they grew in glaciated valleys after the alpine glaciers melted away).

So these are relict landforms of an ancient Pleistocene periglacial climate. Today you would have to go to Alaska or northern Canada to find those climate conditions. Conditions warmed up 10-20,000 years ago, when the glaciers meted away (as they already waxed and waned a few other times throughout the Pleistocene).

This is why the rock fields are covered by fairly large lichen plants. Often you can't even trace the loose rocks to any outcrops. The shattering mechanism was so effective that everything was thoroughly shattered, unless you dig straight down for a hundred feet or so. The rock fields are indicators of a certain past climate, and this is supported by what we call weathering criteria--lichen, plant growth, soils, etc. I think that it's pretty cool that you can walk around on a landscape that formed over 10,000 years ago. Just try not to stumble on the rocks!

RockDoc
Thanks RD - I think that's pretty helpful. Last time I did a section hike in northern PA, I took a copy of Collins Chew's book on AT geology and it substantially increased my enjoyment. Anytime I have the opportunity to learn about the natural history of an area I'm hiking through, I take advantage of that opportunity. Additionally, I'll say that when I did my thru I approached the trail through PA the way most thrus do - the rocks were an obstacle to overcome and the entire state was just something to be endured. Terrible attitude. Now, when I hike PA, I do it in either peak fall colors or early spring wildflower season and the broken bits of sandstone in the trail are all part of the charm.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

If you want to know WHY PA has nasty rock fields, let me tell you.

The Pleistocene glacial limit was at the Delaware Water Gap. The continental ice sheets reached from Canada all the way down through New England but stopped near the current PA line. However, the local climate near the ice sheets, for a few hundred miles south, was still cold and had a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. We call this a periglacial environment and there are specific landforms associated with it. One is the "devil's racecourses" produced by millions of freeze/thaw cycles operating on the local rock outcrops. In some cases these rock accumulations had ice cores, and flowed downhill like real ice glaciers. In the Rockies we have actual rock glaciers with ice cores, which also date from the late Pleistocene when the climate was colder and wetter (often they grew in glaciated valleys after the alpine glaciers melted away).

So these are relict landforms of an ancient Pleistocene periglacial climate. Today you would have to go to Alaska or northern Canada to find those climate conditions. Conditions warmed up 10-20,000 years ago, when the glaciers meted away (as they already waxed and waned a few other times throughout the Pleistocene).

This is why the rock fields are covered by fairly large lichen plants. Often you can't even trace the loose rocks to any outcrops. The shattering mechanism was so effective that everything was thoroughly shattered, unless you dig straight down for a hundred feet or so. The rock fields are indicators of a certain past climate, and this is supported by what we call weathering criteria--lichen, plant growth, soils, etc. I think that it's pretty cool that you can walk around on a landscape that formed over 10,000 years ago. Just try not to stumble on the rocks!

RockDoc

Nice summary of rock fields/periglacial climate freeze-thaw/mass wasting.

But, I believe the preponderance of the difficult rocks along the AT's Pennsylvania section are outcrops and broken pieces of the Silurian Tuscarora Sandstone. The Tuscarora and its stratigraphic equivalents are a ridge-formers of the first order, with widespread distribution throughout the Central and Southern Appalachians, from NY-NJ (where the horizon carries the Shawangunk name), through PA and MD (where Tuscarora is the name), VA (Tuscarora and Massanutten formations), and into TN, GA, and AL (Clinch Sandstone, Red Mountain formations). Given the extensive folding and overthrust faulting, Tuscarora horizons appear as continuous parallel ridges throughout the Great Valley & Valley and Ridge geologic provinces between the crystalline Blue Ridge and the flat-lying Cumberland Plateau, particularly in PA, VA, and TN (though the TN exposures are generally west of the AT).

Particularly in northeast PA, the AT runs atop Tuscarora ridges for miles and miles, with the folding having produced the "tilted slab" noted above. Where the sandstone/quartzite on which the AT runs is not actual outcrop, blocks of Tuscarora form the rock fields so well described by RockDoc. Back in Virginia, AT hikers walk atop "tilted slab" outcrops of Tuscarora sandstone along Garden Mountain, starting just NOBO of the VA-42 crossing just over Walker Mountain from Atkins (where Garden Mountain is the eastern limb of a spectacular collapsed anticline at the center of which is the carbonate valley of Burke's Garden, aka "God's Thumbprint"). As such, the slab outcrop along Garden Mountain tilts to the right (E-SE). Much of the AT from Garden Mountain to Daleville lies atop Tuscarora ridges, including the McAfee Knob and the Dragon's Tooth areas. The dramatic vertical beds of Tuscarora exposed at Seneca Rocks, WV lie west of the AT, which at that latitude runs atop the Blue Ridge some 50 miles east. Adjacent to the AT within Shenandoah Nat Park, Massanutten Mountain is a tightly folded synclinal core of dense, hard Tuscarora sandstone/quartzite perched atop softer Martinsburg Formation sediments. Massanutten is over 50 miles in length and seemingly stands but an arm's length away from the AT atop the Blue Ridge just across the valley of the South Fork of the Shenandoah River from about Swift Run Gap to Front Royal.

AO (Appalachian State University Geology, 1978)

[88BlueGT]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3897/14881736072_82a4d254bd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oF3MEq)21 (https://flic.kr/p/oF3MEq) by djbigley (https://www.flickr.com/people/84226178@N05/), on Flickr

This is the DWG. Welcome to hell :)

[Pedaling Fool]

Actually, I thought Maryland was a lot worse (WRT rocks) than Pennsylvania (from DWG going south).

[brancher]

Damm. All this I thought they were just plain rocks.

[shelb]

I have only hiked SNP (Waynesboro) north through PA...

The first part of PA was a walk in the park....literally, some of the time we strolled through fields and farms.

The last part of PA = rough.... The rocks end up feeling like they were sharpened to poke into your foot like razors. There is no way around them!

But, it is just part of the trail!

[Busky2]

[The rocks end up feeling like they were sharpened to poke into your foot like razors.]

Funny. rumor had it that at one time ads were jokingly placed for rock sharpeners for the PA AT section in some outdoor magazines years ago.

[4eyedbuzzard]

All I can say from experience is that the rocks in some parts of the trail in PA are worse than anything in NH. PA rocks generally aren't big, but they are sharp and stick up at all sorts of weird angles and such. If you like stubbing your toes, tripping, and twisting your ankles, PA is the place to go.

[RED-DOG]

for the most part PA is fairly easy but their is a couple of rock fields about a half mile long that is a pain, for me on all my thru's the worst place in PA was climbing up Blue Mountain NOBO from the leigh bridge coming out of Palmerton PA, Palmerton is a awesome place to spend the night and get resupplied.

[gibsygoldtop]

Must just be me since I live here, but I don't think the rocks are all that bad. Plus the pictures that were posted look like some of the mountain bike trails I ride!

I don't mind the rocks but I do laugh to myself when in other states on the AT how much "smoother" things seem to be :)

[jeffmeh]

I know of a number of thru-hikers who grew up hiking in the Whites and felt that the difficulty of the PA rocks was greatly exaggerated. :)

[88BlueGT]

Being from NJ and doing the majority of my hiking here and in PA, I don't necessarily think that it's "difficult".... but I would be lying if I didn't say that I get really excited even for a 100 foot path of grass.

[jbwood5]

Chiefiepoo, glad to hear you're still at it. I crossed PA back in 2004 and was well prepared for some rough travelling based on all the reports. In actuality it really wasn't horrible at all. Just be prepared for it to take a little longer in some sections. The real rocks are in NH and ME, and you've probably crossed them already :).

I'm taking off north from Rangely, ME this year and treking closer to the big K. This is my last year of full time employment.

[Another Kevin]

Nice summary of rock fields/periglacial climate freeze-thaw/mass wasting.

But, I believe the preponderance of the difficult rocks along the AT's Pennsylvania section are outcrops and broken pieces of the Silurian Tuscarora Sandstone. The Tuscarora and its stratigraphic equivalents are a ridge-formers of the first order, with widespread distribution throughout the Central and Southern Appalachians, from NY-NJ (where the horizon carries the Shawangunk name), through PA and MD (where Tuscarora is the name), VA (Tuscarora and Massanutten formations), and into TN, GA, and AL (Clinch Sandstone, Red Mountain formations). Given the extensive folding and overthrust faulting, Tuscarora horizons appear as continuous parallel ridges throughout the Great Valley & Valley and Ridge geologic provinces between the crystalline Blue Ridge and the flat-lying Cumberland Plateau, particularly in PA, VA, and TN (though the TN exposures are generally west of the AT).

Particularly in northeast PA, the AT runs atop Tuscarora ridges for miles and miles, with the folding having produced the "tilted slab" noted above. Where the sandstone/quartzite on which the AT runs is not actual outcrop, blocks of Tuscarora form the rock fields so well described by RockDoc. Back in Virginia, AT hikers walk atop "tilted slab" outcrops of Tuscarora sandstone along Garden Mountain, starting just NOBO of the VA-42 crossing just over Walker Mountain from Atkins (where Garden Mountain is the eastern limb of a spectacular collapsed anticline at the center of which is the carbonate valley of Burke's Garden, aka "God's Thumbprint"). As such, the slab outcrop along Garden Mountain tilts to the right (E-SE). Much of the AT from Garden Mountain to Daleville lies atop Tuscarora ridges, including the McAfee Knob and the Dragon's Tooth areas. The dramatic vertical beds of Tuscarora exposed at Seneca Rocks, WV lie west of the AT, which at that latitude runs atop the Blue Ridge some 50 miles east. Adjacent to the AT within Shenandoah Nat Park, Massanutten Mountain is a tightly folded synclinal core of dense, hard Tuscarora sandstone/quartzite perched atop softer Martinsburg Formation sediments. Massanutten is over 50 miles in length and seemingly stands but an arm's length away from the AT atop the Blue Ridge just across the valley of the South Fork of the Shenandoah River from about Swift Run Gap to Front Royal.)

The foldbelt continues up west of the Hudson. The Blue Mountain ridge in Pennsylvania, the Kittatinny ridge, and the Shawangunk ridge in New York are the same geosyncline; it simply changes names when it crosses the Delaware and the NY/NJ state line. The folding continues into the Catskills, which are a dissected plateau rather than a true mountain range. There, the harder sandstone of the Taconic river delta has lasted longer, preserving a well-nigh unbroken geologic record from upper Silurian (the Rondout dolomite and Manlius limestone on to the very top of the Devonian. with the Walton and Slide Mountain conglomerates. The Slide Mountain formation, with the characteristic white quartz inclusions found nowhere else but a few summits (Slide, Cornell, Table, and Peekamoose Mountains), appears to be quite similar to the basement layer of the Pennsylvania coal mines. It appears that the Catskills might have had some amount of coal atop the high summits until the glaciers scraped that layer clean.

Beyond that, the Helderberg escarpment exposes deeper layers, down to Schenectady shale (lower Silurian). The escarpment is a palaeontologist's dream - the Devonian coral reef that's exposed there is among the most fossiliferous rock on the planet, often presenting the appearance of close-packed brachiopod, gastropod and cephalopod shells, including a profusion of tentaculites.

And it's sharp rock all the way up. I'd stack the Catskill Crud up against the Pennsylvania Rocks for boot destruction, toe-stubbing, and ankle-twisting. :)

[Thorfinn]

Hello - I didn't think the rocks in PA lived up to their reputation. Rocky, yes, but not steep rocky like in the Whites. I walked part of it into Port Clinton with a hernia and went straight to the emergency room. Couldn't have done that in New England for various reasons including steep, long rocky stretches. My wife was really pissed when the doctor told me I could continue hiking after a day's rest. The most annoying thing about the AT in PA is the constant sound of the trucks on the Interstate. Definitely not a wilderness experience.