Alcohol Stove vs Canister - Non-freezer bag/Mountain House Meals

[chall]

Since I've made the switch from canister to Zelph's Starlyte stove, I haven't looked back at my canister setup. This is mostly due to the fact that I've been going the Mountain House route. Now, I'm trying to switch up the food I'm eating for dinner, so I just purchased some dehydrated meals from Harmony House. Unlike MH meals, these will require simmering. Do you have success with using an alcohol stove with foods that need simmering? I also have an Antigravity Gear pot cozy on the way to help. What are your methods with this type of cooking? Thanks!

[russb]

Since I've made the switch from canister to Zelph's Starlyte stove, I haven't looked back at my canister setup. This is mostly due to the fact that I've been going the Mountain House route. Now, I'm trying to switch up the food I'm eating for dinner, so I just purchased some dehydrated meals from Harmony House. Unlike MH meals, these will require simmering. Do you have success with using an alcohol stove with foods that need simmering? I also have an Antigravity Gear pot cozy on the way to help. What are your methods with this type of cooking? Thanks!

Drop the Starlyte into an empty fancy feast cat food tin and you have an instant simmer stove.

[Starchild]

Drop a large washer with a large hole (ideal), or a larger (larger then a quarter) coin, or other burn proof object on the starlyte to make it a simmer stove. Can be done after you get the water to a boil.

You may ever be able to find a washer made of aluminum at your local hardware store, so you can stay ultralight.

[Odd Man Out]

I wouldn't assume that because it says you are supposed to simmer, that you really do. I cook instant rice dishes, soups, etc.. that are supposed to simmer for 15 to 30 minutes. I just bring to boil, let boil for maybe a minute, then put in a pot cozy and let set. After 20 minutes, it is still very hot (even too hot to eat). I eat right out of the pot. You may have to adjust the liquid a bit, and some of the dehydrated food may come out a little "al dente", but otherwise, it works fine. I have used a Starlyte, but now am using a more powerful alcohol stove.

[chall]

I wouldn't assume that because it says you are supposed to simmer, that you really do. I cook instant rice dishes, soups, etc.. that are supposed to simmer for 15 to 30 minutes. I just bring to boil, let boil for maybe a minute, then put in a pot cozy and let set. After 20 minutes, it is still very hot (even too hot to eat). I eat right out of the pot. You may have to adjust the liquid a bit, and some of the dehydrated food may come out a little "al dente", but otherwise, it works fine. I have used a Starlyte, but now am using a more powerful alcohol stove.

This is what I was thinking. From what I've read, the pot cozy basically replaces the need to simmer. Do you find that it takes longer for the water to boil with the dehydrated food in the pot from the start? What stove did you move on to? As a side note, the website I ordered the food from says you can pre-hydrate for further fuel saving.

[Rocket Jones]

+1 on the boil and cozy method. Works like a champ. Check out http://www.backpackingchef.com/ for more info and some great recipes.

[Odd Man Out]

This is what I was thinking. From what I've read, the pot cozy basically replaces the need to simmer. Do you find that it takes longer for the water to boil with the dehydrated food in the pot from the start? What stove did you move on to? As a side note, the website I ordered the food from says you can pre-hydrate for further fuel saving.

The water would heat faster if you boil before you add the food, but adding the food will cool it down a bit and then you would have to heat more to get it back to a boil. The laws of thermodynamics would predict that the total time would be essentially the same if you boil before or after adding the food. But the food should cook a bit more if you add first as it will spend more time in the water as you are bringing it to a boil. This is what I do. You do need to watch out for boil overs if heating starchy foods that will foam up. You could do essentially the same thing with Freezer Bag Cooking, except that you can't re-boil after adding the water to the food. That extra heat may be what is needed to get things cooked to your satisfaction. I have not used FBC so I don't have any data.

I made a pot cozy using the AntiGravityGear kit
http://www.antigravitygear.com/shop/cozy-collection/antigravitygear-pot-cozy-kit/

I use an OliCamp XTS pot (anodized Aluminum with heat exchanger)
http://www.olicamp.com/products-pots/xts-pot

The stove is a home made eCHS stove, along with a DIY Al flashing wind screen and hardware cloth pot stand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTp5zTOYPHQ

This system boils 2 cups of water in 3-4 minutes. It's about twice as powerful as a Starlyte. BTW, the Starlyte power is variable. When the fuel load gets low, the power drops quite a bit before it burns out. You can avoid this by filling the stove all the way and then blowing it out when done and leaving the excess fuel in with the cap on (assuming you have the version with a cap and no pot stand).

The power of the eCHS stove is constant all the way to burn out. You can't blow it out so I use a snuffer (bottom 1/3 of a Coke can). Then I suck the unused fuel back into my fuel bottle. I hate having to guess how much fuel I will need since I always guess wrong.

[BirdBrain]

OMO, I wanted so bad to steal your thunder. But ya'.... that's the ticket. No need to simmer. Save water and fuel by letting it rehydrate and cook in a freezer bag and cozy.... and use a stove that looks like this.

3044730448

The eCHS has many advantages. Consistent power/efficiency. Low thermal feedback as can be seem in 2nd picture. Easy fuel recovery. Fun to build/customize.

[chall]

The water would heat faster if you boil before you add the food, but adding the food will cool it down a bit and then you would have to heat more to get it back to a boil. The laws of thermodynamics would predict that the total time would be essentially the same if you boil before or after adding the food. But the food should cook a bit more if you add first as it will spend more time in the water as you are bringing it to a boil. This is what I do. You do need to watch out for boil overs if heating starchy foods that will foam up. You could do essentially the same thing with Freezer Bag Cooking, except that you can't re-boil after adding the water to the food. That extra heat may be what is needed to get things cooked to your satisfaction. I have not used FBC so I don't have any data.

I made a pot cozy using the AntiGravityGear kit
http://www.antigravitygear.com/shop/cozy-collection/antigravitygear-pot-cozy-kit/

I use an OliCamp XTS pot (anodized Aluminum with heat exchanger)
http://www.olicamp.com/products-pots/xts-pot

The stove is a home made eCHS stove, along with a DIY Al flashing wind screen and hardware cloth pot stand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTp5zTOYPHQ

This system boils 2 cups of water in 3-4 minutes. It's about twice as powerful as a Starlyte. BTW, the Starlyte power is variable. When the fuel load gets low, the power drops quite a bit before it burns out. You can avoid this by filling the stove all the way and then blowing it out when done and leaving the excess fuel in with the cap on (assuming you have the version with a cap and no pot stand).

The power of the eCHS stove is constant all the way to burn out. You can't blow it out so I use a snuffer (bottom 1/3 of a Coke can). Then I suck the unused fuel back into my fuel bottle. I hate having to guess how much fuel I will need since I always guess wrong.

Thanks for all the info!

Ah, yes. The CHS stove. I was going to attempt to make this, but then I didn't, and ordered the Starlyte. I actually have the version with the built in stand. Maybe I'll blow it out, and then use whatever remaining fuel to heat water for a clean up.

Once I get the cozy and the food I ordered, I'll have to test everything out. Maybe I'll get around to making the CHS stove.

[CarlZ993]

I wouldn't assume that because it says you are supposed to simmer, that you really do. I cook instant rice dishes, soups, etc.. that are supposed to simmer for 15 to 30 minutes. I just bring to boil, let boil for maybe a minute, then put in a pot cozy and let set. After 20 minutes, it is still very hot (even too hot to eat). I eat right out of the pot. You may have to adjust the liquid a bit, and some of the dehydrated food may come out a little "al dente", but otherwise, it works fine. I have used a Starlyte, but now am using a more powerful alcohol stove.
+1. A pot cozy works wonders. I've used this for years. The stove I use changes based on the hike and/or locale. Just boil your water, place your food in the pot, still a little bit, take it off the stove, & put it in the cozy.

If you want to increase the effectiveness of the pot cozy, make it double-walled.

[Odd Man Out]

OMO, I wanted so bad to steal your thunder. But ya'.... that's the ticket. No need to simmer. Save water and fuel by letting it rehydrate and cook in a freezer bag and cozy.... and use a stove that looks like this.

3044730448

The eCHS has many advantages. Consistent power/efficiency. Low thermal feedback as can be seem in 2nd picture. Easy fuel recovery. Fun to build/customize.

I could also add that due to the low thermal feedback (and the fact that the pot of cold water does not set on the stove), the eCHS performs pretty much the same way in all conditions (assuming you have an effective wind screen). I did a test back in Feb when it was 5 below zero and the power output was the same as in my kitchen, except that it took about 45 seconds longer to get started. However the "hold the burning stove in hand" trick only works for me when first lit. By the time it burns out, my stove is pretty hot all over. I put a piece of foil underneath to protect the surface and reflect heat up.

[BirdBrain]

I could also add that due to the low thermal feedback (and the fact that the pot of cold water does not set on the stove), the eCHS performs pretty much the same way in all conditions (assuming you have an effective wind screen). I did a test back in Feb when it was 5 below zero and the power output was the same as in my kitchen, except that it took about 45 seconds longer to get started. However the "hold the burning stove in hand" trick only works for me when first lit. By the time it burns out, my stove is pretty hot all over. I put a piece of foil underneath to protect the surface and reflect heat up.

I actually have held an eHS like that for several minutes. 2 things are in play. I think my hand acts as a heat sink (marginal at best). I was a welder for 14 years. My hands are not very sensitive to heat. The cold is another matter. The final 5 seconds of the burn is where the stove heats up significantly because that is the only time fuel is burning in the bowl (other than during the short prime and then the stove is full of cool fuel).

I would add that in my opinion pouring water into freezer bags makes more sense than using a cozy for the pot. I repackage all my hot meals into freezer bags. Therefore, I already have something to eat out of and I don't have a pot to clean afterwards. I have not run tests, but believe a freezer bag and cozy would do well compared to a pot and cozy for efficiency.

[Odd Man Out]

I actually have held an eHS like that for several minutes. 2 things are in play. I think my hand acts as a heat sink (marginal at best). I was a welder for 14 years. My hands are not very sensitive to heat. The cold is another matter. The final 5 seconds of the burn is where the stove heats up significantly because that is the only time fuel is burning in the bowl (other than during the short prime and then the stove is full of cool fuel).

I would add that in my opinion pouring water into freezer bags makes more sense than using a cozy for the pot. I repackage all my hot meals into freezer bags. Therefore, I already have something to eat out of and I don't have a pot to clean afterwards. I have not run tests, but believe a freezer bag and cozy would do well compared to a pot and cozy for efficiency.

I just knew that my stove was very hot at the end. I never bothered to find you exactly when it got hot.

Maybe someday I'll try FBC. I just seem to like eating out of a pot. Never found cleaning it that much of an ordeal. Wasn't sure if everything would rehydrate as well since you can't boil in the bag - you can just get it close to boiling. I guess I'll have to do make a FB cozy and do some testing.

[BirdBrain]

I just knew that my stove was very hot at the end. I never bothered to find you exactly when it got hot.

Maybe someday I'll try FBC. I just seem to like eating out of a pot. Never found cleaning it that much of an ordeal. Wasn't sure if everything would rehydrate as well since you can't boil in the bag - you can just get it close to boiling. I guess I'll have to do make a FB cozy and do some testing.

That is understandable. Most people don't grab things that are hot to find out if it will burn. ;)

Eating out of a pot is much easier. Cleaning a clean pot is much easier. Personal preference. Food cooks fine in a bag. Stays hot for a very long time if done right. Rehydrates fine. I squish it between my fingers periodically to test how it is doing.

[Five Tango]

I have several alcohol stoves,including the Caldera Cone for my Evernew one liter titanium pot.I like it but have thot I might want to try gas as someone gave me one as a gift.The Optimus tank I have for it says 8.9 oz capacity.My question is,of course,how many minutes,boils,or days would that little tank run based on a quick boil for coffee/oatmeal in the morning and maybe a little simmering in the evening?To be perfectly honest,the overpriced "simmer rings" for my Caldera system have left me somewhat underwhelmed.......However,if you want stability for you pot when you are cooking on the ground,I don't think anything can beat the cone.It does seems fuel efficient from what I have experienced so far as well.