Planning a week-long AT hike from Pinkham Notch to Franconia Notch

[BradyCycler]

Hello all,

I'm in the planning stages for a week-long late summer/early fall hike along the AT from Pinkham Notch to Franconia Notch (or vice versa) with the girlfriend and possibly another couple.

I hiked the southern 900 miles of the AT (from Springer to Shenandoah) in 2013 and I remember people saying that the Whites were brutal and miles per day drop way down.

With that in mind I've put together what I believe to be a decent itinerary that I'd like some feedback on from any of you fine folks that have better knowledge of the Whites. The huts are a little on the pricey side so I'm planning on tent camping the whole way.

Here's my initial plan:

AT Southbound Hike
Parking @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center


Day 1 (Sun) - Pinkham Notch -to- RMC Perch Shelter (9.3 miles)
Day 2 (Mon) - RMC Perch Shelter -to- Nauman Campsite (10.3 miles)
Day 3 (Tue) - Nauman Campsite -to- Ethan Pond Campsite (9.3 miles)
Day 4 (Wed) - Ethan Pond Campsite -to- Goyot Shelter (9.0 miles)
Day 5 (Thu) - Goyot Shelter -to- Garfield Ridge Shelter (5.5 miles)
Day 6 (Fri) - Garfield Ridge Shelter -to- Liberty Spring Campsite (7.6 miles)
Day 7 (Sat) - Liberty Spring Campsite -to- Franconia Notch (2.7 miles)


AMC Shuttle - Pick-up @ 11:50AM @ Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead -to- Highland Center @ 1:25PM, switch shuttles, Highland Center -to- Pinkham Notch Visitor Center @ 3:00PM


The only thing I'm a little leery about with the itinerary above is that we're grabbing the AMC shuttle at the end of the hike and if we miss it (bad weather, etc) we'll be SOL. The other thought I had was to take the AMC shuttle the first day to Franconia Notch and hike north to our parked car...

AT Northbound Hike
Park @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center
AMC Shuttle - Leave @ 7:30AM @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center to Highland Center @ 9AM, switch shuttles, Highland Center to Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead @ 10:25AM


Day 1 - Franconia Notch to Liberty Spring Campsite (2.7 miles)
Day 2 - Liberty Spring Campsite to Garfield Ridge Shelter (7.6 miles)
Day 3 - Garfield Ridge Shelter to Goyot Shelter (5.5 miles)
Day 4 - Goyot Shelter to Ethan Pond Campsite (9.0 miles)
Day 5 - Ethan Pond Campsite to Nauman Campsite (9.3 miles)
Day 6 - Nauman Campsite to RMC Perch Shelter (10.3 miles)
Day 7 - RMC Perch Shelter to Pinkham Notch (9.3 miles)

Any feedback/suggestions?

[BirdBrain]

Very doable. I prefer NoBo through this area. Guyot very crowded because if the Pemi loop and the Bonds. Given how short that day is, I would take in the Bonds while there.

[peakbagger]

If you have the time, substitute Crag Camp for the Perch, it is one of more spectacular place to stay in the whites. Plan on crowded campsites they are all popular. Plan for nasty weather and hope you don't get it. The best way to deal with overcrowding at campsite is get going early in the morning. When at Guyot take the short hike to West Bond for Sunset, you wil be glad you did if its clear night.

On the AT northbound hike Day 2 is a very long day. Mileage wise it looks reasonable but the stretch from Lafayette to Garfield is very rugged, its doable but don't underestimate it.

[TonyDedo]

Planning a similar trip for mid July, and I'm battling with the Nauman Campsite to RMC Perch Shelter section of the itinerary. We definitely want to summit the Presidentials, but I don't want to over do it or end up racing daylight to get to the shelter (or arriving late to find a full shelter).

Are there any other camping options between Nauman and the shelters north of Adams besides Lakes of the Clouds (my buddies protest spending $100 for the night)?

[burger]

I say go NOBO. If you go SOBO, that climb out of Pinkham the first day would be just killer. The climb up to Franconia Ridge is mellower. The climb out of Crawford is not fun NOBO, but at least you'll have a few days to work up to it.

Garfield campsite is doable on your first day if you are fit. You can also combine days 3 and 4 into one day. That's what I did on a NOBO section starting at Franconia:

Day 1: Franconia Notch to Garfield
Day 2: Garfield to Ethan Pond

After Ethan Pond, my itinerary was pretty much like yours, except that I did work for stay at Madison Hut (Supposedly that's against the rules for section hikers, but I didn't care because I have zero respect for AMC and their monopoly over camping in the Whites.).

[BirdBrain]

@ burger.

When I did that section, I "cheated" by starting at Lincoln Woods so I could get Flume and Liberty on my way. All was good until the end of the down off Lafayette. Downs hurt me more than ups. I had very little left when I arrived at Garfield Campsite. The down off Lafayette and over Garfield should not be underestimated. I agree. It can be done.

I agree more with your suggestion to combine day 3and 4. Guyot is quite a detour and the walk is pretty easy after you do the boulders before Zealand.

I also share your frustration with the AMC.

[peakbagger]

I cannot in good faith recommend a backpack up up from the AT trailhead on RT 3 in Franconia Notch all the way to Garfield Shelter for any one other than a thruhiker. Its real easy to overdo it on the first day and regret it the next few days. Trust me, the hike from Liberty Springs to Garfield Hut is still a lot longer than it appears and on nice day shouldn't be rushed. If you get to Liberty Springs early, set up a tent and then go for a dayhike up to Liberty and even Flume.

[burger]

I cannot in good faith recommend a backpack up up from the AT trailhead on RT 3 in Franconia Notch all the way to Garfield Shelter for any one other than a thruhiker. Its real easy to overdo it on the first day and regret it the next few days. Trust me, the hike from Liberty Springs to Garfield Hut is still a lot longer than it appears and on nice day shouldn't be rushed. If you get to Liberty Springs early, set up a tent and then go for a dayhike up to Liberty and even Flume.
Like I said, if you're fit, this is totally doable as a section hiker. If you're not well trained for climbing 3000+ feet while carrying a full pack, take the easy first day. The OP is from upstate NY where there should at least be opportunities to train for this kind of hike.

Lincoln Woods is an even easier approach but, obviously, not on the AT.

[BirdBrain]

Not sure I would call adding 5 miles and 2 extra 4000' hills easier. Any way you slice it, going over Garfield with a full pack at the end of a long walk is not easy. Doable, but not the best plan.

[tdoczi]

my first true day of hiking in the whites was franconia notch to galehead hut. its doable. not easy, but certainly not "only for thru hikers" and garfield tent site isnt as far.

[bwlonge]

I want to do a week in the White Mountains, and the northbound route looks awesome, so thanks for posting this- I had no idea where to start or what pace to expect.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Hello all,

I'm in the planning stages for a week-long late summer/early fall hike along the AT from Pinkham Notch to Franconia Notch (or vice versa) with the girlfriend and possibly another couple.
...
Any feedback/suggestions?
The biggest ones that comes to mind:
1) Your pace will be dependent on the slowest person in your group.
2) Weather, weather, weather.

[Gray Bear]

Hello all,

I'm in the planning stages for a week-long late summer/early fall hike along the AT from Pinkham Notch to Franconia Notch (or vice versa) with the girlfriend and possibly another couple.

I hiked the southern 900 miles of the AT (from Springer to Shenandoah) in 2013 and I remember people saying that the Whites were brutal and miles per day drop way down.

With that in mind I've put together what I believe to be a decent itinerary that I'd like some feedback on from any of you fine folks that have better knowledge of the Whites. The huts are a little on the pricey side so I'm planning on tent camping the whole way.

Here's my initial plan:

AT Southbound Hike
Parking @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center


Day 1 (Sun) - Pinkham Notch -to- RMC Perch Shelter (9.3 miles)
Day 2 (Mon) - RMC Perch Shelter -to- Nauman Campsite (10.3 miles)
Day 3 (Tue) - Nauman Campsite -to- Ethan Pond Campsite (9.3 miles)
Day 4 (Wed) - Ethan Pond Campsite -to- Goyot Shelter (9.0 miles)
Day 5 (Thu) - Goyot Shelter -to- Garfield Ridge Shelter (5.5 miles)
Day 6 (Fri) - Garfield Ridge Shelter -to- Liberty Spring Campsite (7.6 miles)
Day 7 (Sat) - Liberty Spring Campsite -to- Franconia Notch (2.7 miles)


AMC Shuttle - Pick-up @ 11:50AM @ Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead -to- Highland Center @ 1:25PM, switch shuttles, Highland Center -to- Pinkham Notch Visitor Center @ 3:00PM


The only thing I'm a little leery about with the itinerary above is that we're grabbing the AMC shuttle at the end of the hike and if we miss it (bad weather, etc) we'll be SOL. The other thought I had was to take the AMC shuttle the first day to Franconia Notch and hike north to our parked car...

AT Northbound Hike
Park @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center
AMC Shuttle - Leave @ 7:30AM @ Pinkham Notch Visitor Center to Highland Center @ 9AM, switch shuttles, Highland Center to Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead @ 10:25AM


Day 1 - Franconia Notch to Liberty Spring Campsite (2.7 miles)
Day 2 - Liberty Spring Campsite to Garfield Ridge Shelter (7.6 miles)
Day 3 - Garfield Ridge Shelter to Goyot Shelter (5.5 miles)
Day 4 - Goyot Shelter to Ethan Pond Campsite (9.0 miles)
Day 5 - Ethan Pond Campsite to Nauman Campsite (9.3 miles)
Day 6 - Nauman Campsite to RMC Perch Shelter (10.3 miles)
Day 7 - RMC Perch Shelter to Pinkham Notch (9.3 miles)

Any feedback/suggestions?


Of these two I'd go with the NOBO. nice short first day. Your SOBO plan has a longer first day with you climbing out of the Great Gulf with a full pack. A others have mentioned your NOBO day 2 has some tough going but the Francoina Ridge is among some of the finest ridge line in the Whites. Keep in mind it gets crowded for that reason. Not a lot of water on that section either. If it were me I'd be on the trail as early as possible to beat the crowds. NOBO day 3 has some rugged footing as well. Goyot will fill up early and West Bond in a must. Day 4 maybe sunrise on West Bond. Bring your camera. Day 6 is going to be fantastic if the weather is good and a night mare if its not. Nauman is right next to the Mizpah hut and they'll have a good weather report first thing in the am. I'm a fan of the Perch myself some of the best water in the Whites at that location I may have just been really thirsty but it left an impression and I know the cute young lady that was caretaker at Gray Nob was hauling 5 gal buckets of the stuff to make beer with ;) .

[Slo-go'en]

Are there any other camping options between Nauman and the shelters north of Adams besides Lakes of the Clouds (my buddies protest spending $100 for the night)?

Nope, none at all. Once you start up towards Pierce, you above tree line the whole way, where camping is not permitted.

You either stay at Lakes or you keep going until you get to the Perch and hope there is room. If not, you go another couple of miles to Gray Knob or Crag Camp. That makes for one real long day.

[joshuasdad]

Nauman Campsite to Ethan Pond (9.3 miles) might be scary for some, especially on a windy/rainy day. There was some trail work going on in the lower elevation sections (nearer the road) last year, which might make things a little easier, but you will still need to scramble and butt slide on the higher elevation sections.

[Deadeye]

Everyone has had reasonable opinions, but only you know your ability to put in the miles. My two cents is only to take the option of parking your car and hiking back to it, regardless of direction or end points. It is so much nicer to see your car at the end of a trip than it is to see a road and have to wait for a bus.

[HighLiner]

All I can say is this section is the hardest the AT offers. Mileage plan is reasonable, the views outstanding, and I'm so proud to have done it.

[Scrum]

Concerning a shuttle you can cut down on the uncertainty by parking at the end point, shuttling over to the start, and hiking back to your car. To add flexibility on the timing, skip the AMC shuttle and use a private one instead so you can arrange a pick up time that fits your schedule and get directly to the selected location. Many people, including me, have enjoyed the shuttle service provide by Bruce "Golden Waldo" Feige, a former thru hiker who has a huge van and only charges for gas (though most also add a gratuity) - 603/466-5282 or cell 504/615-9497.

You can't go wrong with NOBO or SOBO on this trip. Perhaps pick your direction shortly before the start date by checking weather reports and try to maximize the likelihood of good weather for the the day you go over Mt. Washington. The hike between Ethan Pond Capsite and the Zealand Hut is the easiest in the Whites, on an old rail bed, so the stretch from Ethan Pond to Goyot is very doable. I agree with others that Goyot is a great spot and going a little further off the AT to the Bonds is well worth the effort if you have time.

Also agree that you want to plan to get go the campsites on the early side, especially on weekends.

Finally, I will avoid taking this thread off into the pro or anti AMC debate, accept to say that many of us appreciate the AMC maintained campsites and shelters that minimize the impact on the fragile environment in the Whites, and keeps the sites clean through the hard and dirty work maintaining the composting out houses. Well worth $8 per night to me! :)

Enjoy the hike.

[BradyCycler]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

We've decided we're going to hike NOBO (second option) but due to the driving logistics of getting to Pinkham Notch Visitor Center so early, we're going to play it safe and opt for the later shuttle that leaves @ 10:40AM and gets to Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead @ 2:55PM... kinda late start on the first day, but we shouldn't have a problem making the 2.7 miles to Liberty Spring Campsite before hiker midnight. :)

One additional question - If the AMC campsites are full, are there "overflow" areas or do hikers just walk down the trail a little ways and find a (legal) spot to throw down some tents?

[Slo-go'en]

One additional question - If the AMC campsites are full, are there "overflow" areas or do hikers just walk down the trail a little ways and find a (legal) spot to throw down some tents?

No, your out of luck, they will tell you to hike back out to the road. You will not find a place to put your tent just a little ways down the trail. You need to be at least 1/4 mile away and that often puts you in an area where tenting is not at all practical or puts you above tree line. (the designated camping sites have tent platforms to put your tent on for a reason). The section you plan on doing has the most limited and most restricted camping on the AT. Finding a legal spot for several tents is next to impossible and much of the area you want to hike through is above tree line.

If your caught camping where your not suppose to be, that can lead to stiff fines and being forced to pack up and be escorted out to the road. (that's actually an extreme case reserved for people who give the Ranger a hard time or found camping above tree line, but it is a possibility).

The limited and restricted camping is due to the geology and fragile nature of the terrain, along with the popularity of the area which makes doing a thru through here logistically challenging. Your best bet is to plan this trip for after Labor day and try to avoid being out on a Saturday night. That way your only competition for a tent platform or shelter space will be with the thru hikers and not will all the hikers from Boston and Montreal.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

We've decided we're going to hike NOBO (second option) but due to the driving logistics of getting to Pinkham Notch Visitor Center so early, we're going to play it safe and opt for the later shuttle that leaves @ 10:40AM and gets to Liberty Spring at Whitehouse Trailhead @ 2:55PM... kinda late start on the first day, but we shouldn't have a problem making the 2.7 miles to Liberty Spring Campsite before hiker midnight. :)

One additional question - If the AMC campsites are full, are there "overflow" areas or do hikers just walk down the trail a little ways and find a (legal) spot to throw down some tents?Liberty Springs is not a big site - 7 single and 3 double tent platforms. It is built on the side of the mountain and the general terrain is quite steep, treed, and rocky, with very few places one could realistically pitch a tent. The good news is you're hiking in on a Sunday afternoon when the weekenders should be gone, but the bad news is getting there so late in the day with very few options. In my experience, the caretaker will double up smaller tents on the single platforms to fit people in, but even if they fit you in your group may get separated. I've seen evidence of a few "stealth" sites (obviously not all that stealthy) further up the trail near the ridge (see this thread as well http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/86189-Campsites-on-ridge-just-after-Liberty-Springs-Campsite-on-the-AT-in-the-Whites ), but I wouldn't suggest nor rely on them as I haven't been up there since Oct. 2012 myself.

[peakbagger]

There is evidence of folks heading off into the woods just before the Restricted Use Area Sign on Liberty Springs trail. The ground is not level and the woods are somewhat dense but expect folks do it. The caretaker can not tell you to head back to the road, but he can tell you to head 1/4 of a mile away. Here are the rules http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5363715.pdf. Folks used to keep going up hill to the ridgeline to the Franconia Ridge Trail (stlll the AT) and camp next to the trail but those spots were signed for the last two years as no camping by the FS. Do note that the Franconia Ridge Trail is not on the list of the 200 foot rule so you can camp anywhere. Unfortunately the terrain and dense spruce/fir makes it difficult. If you go straight into the woods at the junction of Liberty Spring trail and the Franconia Ridge trail trail or bear right a bit into the woods there were flat spots but technically they may be within 1/4 of a mile of the campsite so I wouldn't count on them (although in the past the caretakers have occasionally managed this area as overflow).

If you are on Liberty Springs Trail, then you need to camp 200 feet off the trail and 1/4 of a mile away from the campsite. There is a sign on both sides of Liberty Springs campground on the trail so you are quite certain on the boundary. Personally In my opinion, there are some nice open hardwoods down lower on the trail between the Flume trail junction and the next major steam crossing. Just head to your right or left 200 feet and pick a spot under the hardwoods. The ground will be far softer and sleeping in the hardwoods is nice experience that you will not have for much of your trip. Once you cross the stream, the ground is steeper and the softwoods rapidly take over

[rickb]

Liberty Springs is not a big site - 7 single and 3 double tent platforms. It is built on the side of the mountain and the general terrain is quite steep, treed, and rocky, with very few places one could realistically pitch a tent. The good news is you're hiking in on a Sunday afternoon when the weekenders should be gone, but the bad news is getting there so late in the day with very few options. In my experience, the caretaker will double up smaller tents on the single platforms to fit people in, but even if they fit you in your group may get separated. I've seen evidence of a few "stealth" sites (obviously not all that stealthy) further up the trail near the ridge (see this thread as well http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/86189-Campsites-on-ridge-just-after-Liberty-Springs-Campsite-on-the-AT-in-the-Whites ), but I wouldn't suggest nor rely on them as I haven't been up there since Oct. 2012 myself.

+1

The caretakers work very hard to find solutions. If the ones at Liberty Springs have ever sent late arriving NOBOs back down to the road, I'd sure like to here the details!

Peakbagger? IF anyone can tell us he can.

I was curious about how others "real life" experiences, and started a poll to learn more. I wasn't surprised, but wish more had participated. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between a caretaker telling a couple strong young guys that the site is full when they arrive at 1pm, and telling a couple that the overflow area is an urban myth when they arrive at sunset in the biting rain.

Anyway, here is a link to my poll:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/96365-Have-you-ever-been-turned-away-by-an-AMC-caretaker-because-the-campsite-was-full

[peakbagger]

I tend to do long day hikes and its been 20 plus years since I have stayed at an AMC campsite. I do go through and by them frequently and generally take note of unexpected potential camping areas and unexpected spots where the WMNF violates their own policies.

My observations over the years are the caretakers are paid to try to manage the impact on popular areas, they are given a lot of latitude to try to deal with the crowds. They are not deputized by the WMNF and unable to write a ticket. They do have a radio and if they ask for help from the WMNF to deal with rule breakers they most likely will get it. That said if someone goes in with a attitude they may get one back. When I first started hiking Liberty Spring was pretty well trashed for quite a distance from the current campsite. There were paths crisscrossing the woods and the trees were still stripped. When I walk by it these days, many of the paths have grown back in and the trees are somewhat grown back in.

[Scrum]

Slo-go'en's response is on the mark. I just add, to avoid confusion, that some of the camp sites do have areas that the caretakers refer to as "overflow". They are less favored spots on the ground rather than on a platform that can be used when all other options are used. The spots are still in the camp site area. I am thinking of a couple of spots I saw put to use at Kinsman Pund last summer. I don't recall such spots at Liberty Spring. The caretakers do an amazing job squeezing multiple tents onto the platforms and getting as many people in as possible. Still, if it were me, I would take a private shuttle from Pinkham to get on the trail a few hours earlier.

Let us us know how it goes.