View Full Version : Climbing Everest and the Appalachian Trail question
Does anyone know or has anyone done something on this ? they say walking the entire trail is like climbing Everest 16 times. has anyone figured out starting from Springer where are the points at on the map where you get to each climb?
4eyedbuzzard
04-04-2015, 09:54
Hiking the AT is, of course, nothing like climbing Everest, even once. And actually, the cumulative elevation gain on the AT, roughly 510,000 feet, is some 44 times what it is on Everest (base camp 17,500 ft, summit 29,000 ft), depending upon how all that is estimated. From Lukla (9400 ft), the start of most treks to base camp, it would be 26 times. But you could probably figure it out from this data http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php/49
HooKooDooKu
04-04-2015, 22:59
Keep in mind that those that summit Everest usually go part of the way up and back down many times to acclimatize before making a summit attempt.
To draw comparisons you would have to do something like hike GA to VA and back 3 or 4 times before pushing on to PA... return to GA and hike all the way back to PA before making a final push for attempting to reach ME.
Sarcasm the elf
04-04-2015, 23:07
Keep in mind that those that summit Everest usually go part of the way up and back down many times to acclimatize before making a summit attempt.
To draw comparisons you would have to do something like hike GA to VA and back 3 or 4 times before pushing on to PA... return to GA and hike all the way back to PA before making a final push for attempting to reach ME.
I suppose you could make a comparison between the bottlenecks of mountaineers summiting Mt. Everest and the crowds reportedly at Springer this year...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/29/article-2151418-13580309000005DC-647_634x422.jpg
brian039
04-04-2015, 23:17
Hiking the AT is more like stringing together 60 long-weekend hikes.
fiddlehead
04-04-2015, 23:25
Maybe (just maybe) if you hiked the AT in wintertime, you could begin to compare the 2.
But the altitude would still be the big difference. (and the cost of course)
Let's not be so silly.
Odd Man Out
04-04-2015, 23:30
Everest is up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up
down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down.
The AT is up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down.
I have both on my "List". Everest would be the base camp A tour though, cheaper and at least I was "there". The AT calls my soul every year around this time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
colorado_rob
04-05-2015, 09:09
Hiking the AT is, of course, nothing like climbing Everest, even once. Mostly true, but maybe not quite. Though I haven't yet climbed Everest (but still might try in the next couple years), climbing big, high, cold mountains (which I have done a lot of)invokes a lot of the same types of stresses, both mental and physical ones, as doing a long hike like the AT (which I have done 2/3rd of, hope to complete this year). For example, after having climbed a lot of big mountains, the ups & downs along the AT do seem very modest, even though there are so very many of them, so having climbed many big mountains, this helps with hiking the AT. I'm sure this works in reverse: those who have managed to hike the AT, or any other long trail, have the potential for climbing the big mountains of the world, and with a large amount of enjoyment.
Traveler
04-05-2015, 09:26
I have always heard the AT thru hike compared to Everest as being "equivalent" to climbing that elevation many times over. It may have become verbal/print short hand to say its the "same" and I doubt anyone who knows much about either would agree with that.
4eyedbuzzard
04-05-2015, 10:07
Mostly true, but maybe not quite. Though I haven't yet climbed Everest (but still might try in the next couple years), climbing big, high, cold mountains (which I have done a lot of)invokes a lot of the same types of stresses, both mental and physical ones, as doing a long hike like the AT (which I have done 2/3rd of, hope to complete this year). For example, after having climbed a lot of big mountains, the ups & downs along the AT do seem very modest, even though there are so very many of them, so having climbed many big mountains, this helps with hiking the AT. I'm sure this works in reverse: those who have managed to hike the AT, or any other long trail, have the potential for climbing the big mountains of the world, and with a large amount of enjoyment.Other than the adventure aspect of it, I find them to be different in many ways.
Major differences IMO:
Virtually anyone who isn't severely disabled can literally start thru-hiking the AT tomorrow morning and succeed based upon sheer willpower. People hike themselves into shape. Climbing Everest or any big mountain, you have to in advance be very fit and in very good cardiovascular health to climb.
AT is hiking between towns 4 days apart, on established trail, at low altitudes, with no technical climbs. Everest is the tallest mountain in the world, with ice falls, glaciers, crevasses - and there isn't enough oxygen on the last 3000 ft of it to support life. Much greater inherent risk: lose a glove = lose a hand; lose a boot or ? or take a bad fall or even just have the weather turn really bad = die on the mountain. Add HAPE, HACE, etc. Is hypothermia a risk on the AT? Yes. Falls? Sure. But the risk level is so much smaller. Every year, healthy and experienced climbers lose body parts and die on Everest, just because it's that hard and dangerous. Enough said.
Degree of technical skills/prior training required. None for AT thru-hike. For Everest, add the cost of two years climbing/training in Cascades or Rockies and then a Denali or Aconcagua climb at minimum. Some services/expeditions require at least one other Himalayan summit, like Cho Oyu, prior to accepting a climber as a client.
Finances required (figure $60-80K + gear + travel for an Everest attempt with western based guided expedition). The AT can be hiked on as little as $2K or so on a shoestring budget, although $4K to 8K is a more typical and comfortable hike.
Discipline, teamwork, and yes, even following orders from leaders/guides is required as part of group on Everest. Not traits I see in a lot of thru-hikers, who tend to be more individualistic.
30474
It looks so beautiful (in a challenging sense).
Now, imagine being up there and twisting a knee, or having the clouds roll in, or it starts snowing - things that are minor on the AT. I just see a lot of the differences.
I have done alpine climbing, mountain trekking, backpacking and hiking. Each are different, alpine climbing is a unique sport requiring much different skills and equipment. Also, altitude trumps all. Over 8,000 feet things start to change. I have completed 1,100 miles of the AT from GA to NH. The challenges of the AT are unique in some ways, and the further I went the more mental discipline and motivation played in completing GA to WVA. If I had the cash I would head back to the high mountains in a heartbeat.
colorado_rob
04-05-2015, 10:48
Other than the adventure aspect of it, I find them to be different in many ways.
Major differences IMO:
...
Now, imagine being up there and twisting a knee, or having the clouds roll in, or it starts snowing - things that are minor on the AT. I just see a lot of the differences.Yeah, that's why I said mostly true (them being different), just not quite all true (the physical and mental challenges). I've never had any problems climbing the high mountains I've climbed, all successfully, but last year when I tried to go from Springer to Harpers Ferry, I crapped out at mile 703 (Catawba). I just couldn't get my mind to go any further, I found my limit for one stretch at a time (6 weeks on the trail). I've yet to find any limit climbing high, though I've only been to 7000 meters (~23,000', on top of Aconcagua). Therefore, the AT was more difficult for me than climbing.
Just curious: Have you climbed any really high mountains yourself? You seem to know what you're talking about.
4eyedbuzzard
04-05-2015, 10:53
Some people say you have to be a bit brain damaged to want to climb mountains anyway. :-? But even if you weren't to start with, well, you likely will be when you're done http://www.cns.nyu.edu/events/spf/SPF_papers/fayed2006evidence.pdf :eek:
As long as I have two brain cells left - so they can have a conversation in my head - I guess I'll be okay. :D
In my view, not comparable at all, as altitude potentially trumps everything. :)
squeezebox
04-05-2015, 11:27
So what are the temps and wind speeds on Everest. Just don't compare the AT and Everest. 29K ft. vs 6.5K is a big difference. not to mention the rest of the specs.
colorado_rob
04-05-2015, 11:35
Some people say you have to be a bit brain damaged to want to climb mountains anyway. :-? But even if you weren't to start with, well, you likely will be when you're done http://www.cns.nyu.edu/events/spf/SPF_papers/fayed2006evidence.pdf :eek:
As long as I have two brain cells left - so they can have a conversation in my head - I guess I'll be okay. :D Yep, agree! I sure think that study has merit. I also think we have to be brain-damaged to hike 2180 miles in a green tunnel... But, tons of fun! If people who don't do these sorts of things (AT, high mountains, etc) are the "normal" undamaged ones, I'll take a bit "brain damage" any day.
kayak karl
04-05-2015, 11:54
Everest is up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up
down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down down.
The AT is up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down up down.
I don't remember the downs on the AT :)
HooKooDooKu
04-05-2015, 15:06
One of the points I was trying to make about climbing Everest is that it is NOT just "up up up up up up... " followed by "down down down down down down". You have to partially climb the mountain several times before the final climb to the summit... so an Everest climb is more like "up up up down down down up up up up up up down down down down down down up up up up up up up up up down down down down down down down down down up up up up up up up up up up up up down down down down down down down down down down down down".
If you get hurt on the AT, someone will help you. If you get hurt on Everest, they leave you to die and use your body as a place name.
It's in my signature but it's 22.7 times the elevation gain as the elevation gain from base camp to the summit. However while I've never been mountaineering the two are probably like apples and dodge chargers. Altitude is a huge factor (I recently got stationed at Fort Carson, CO which was about a 6,000ft increase for me) and also the climate. I wouldn't assume to compare the two. But 22.7x. That's your answer.
Odd Man Out
04-05-2015, 22:54
One of the points I was trying to make about climbing Everest is that it is NOT just "up up up up up up... " followed by "down down down down down down". You have to partially climb the mountain several times before the final climb to the summit... so an Everest climb is more like "up up up down down down up up up up up up down down down down down down up up up up up up up up up down down down down down down down down down up up up up up up up up up up up up down down down down down down down down down down down down".
Yes, good point.
fredmugs
04-06-2015, 07:07
Zero comparison. There's nothing on the AT that remotely compares to climbing Mt Whitney much less Everest. Lifting 5 pounds 200 times is not the same as lifting 1000 lbs once.
Zero comparison. There's nothing on the AT that remotely compares to climbing Mt Whitney much less Everest. Lifting 5 pounds 200 times is not the same as lifting 1000 lbs once.
🐻Far more people have summited Everest than have completed the AT SOBO.🐭
Sure there is a comparison that you can learn from, you just can't say the comparison will result in a finding that they are equivalent.
4eyedbuzzard
04-06-2015, 14:05
It takes some 5 million steps to hike the AT. Given a 150 day thru-hike, that's 33,000 steps per day. I walk about half that every day between work and other activities. So every year I do an AT thru-hike, comparatively - except there's no comparison.
It takes some 5 million steps to hike the AT. Given a 150 day thru-hike, that's 33,000 steps per day. I walk about half that every day between work and other activities. So every year I do an AT thru-hike, comparatively - except there's no comparison.
Not sure what you do for a living 4EB, but if you are slacking on the job, I would have to agree.
garlic08
04-06-2015, 18:41
I think the relative fatality rates might tell a bit of the story. The Everest climb has a pretty high percentage of deaths especially when compared to successful summits. Death on the AT is certainly not unknown, and a good percentage of those are human-caused.
Let's not be so silly.
In 2013 689 people summited Everest, but only 589 Northbounders reached Katahdin and registered as 2000 milers.
What's even more impressive is that the Northbounders were able to reach their goal without ropes.
Many of both groups had some of their gear carrier for them, however.
So what are the temps and wind speeds on Everest. Just don't compare the AT and Everest. 29K ft. vs 6.5K is a big difference. not to mention the rest of the specs.
If you get a chance, take a look at Storm Over Everest 1996 on U-Tube. Into Thin Air by Jon Krakauer is also good read on Everest.
I'm scratching my head on this. You can always make a comparison, you can compare swimming in a pool to swimming the English Channel. You can compare climbing a mountain and sitting in a chair. You draw conclusions from the comparison that's all. Maybe you find a lot of things that are common and maybe not. WRT Mount Everest and the AT which was the original question there is some commonality and a lot of things that are different but unless you compare the two you won't know what those things are or how they relate. Each has it's own challenges and dangers, one more so than the other. A comparison is a valid way to highlight the differences.
"No comparison" is a colloquial expression meaning that the two things being compared are much more different than similar, it is not an imperative to not make a comparison, lol.
Sarcasm the elf
04-07-2015, 14:16
So what are the temps and wind speeds on Everest. Just don't compare the AT and Everest. 29K ft. vs 6.5K is a big difference. not to mention the rest of the specs.
Since you asked, here are temperature charts for Everest:
http://www.explorersweb.com/adventureweather/charts/
Keep in mind that the A.T. does cross over Mt Washington which has some of the most dangerous weather on earth. Washington is a small mountain but it's temperature and wind speed records mean that at times there few places on earth with harsher conditions.
https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/mount-washington-weather-archives/normals-means-and-extremes.aspx
On a more serious note, any thread that mention both Everest and Mount Washington would be incomplete without also mentioning Rick Wilcox.
Check out this recent article!
http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news/119829-wilcox-gets-liketime-achievement-award
Traveler
04-07-2015, 16:54
On a more serious note, any thread that mention both Everest and Mount Washington would be incomplete without also mentioning Rick Wilcox.
Check out this recent article!
http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news/119829-wilcox-gets-liketime-achievement-award
Anyone else have problems on this site? For me a pop up menu came up and kept asking me to select allow/not allow the site to use my location. Regardless what answer I selected the selection pop up kept coming back in an endless loop. ugh Had to shut down and restart to be rid of it.
Veteran mountaineer Wilcox gets lifetime achievement award
Published Date: Tuesday, 24 March 2015
By Erik Eisele
CONWAY — Forty years ago, the Vietnam War was ending. The U.S.S.R. dominated Eastern Europe. Gerald Ford was president. Bruce Springsteen released his third album, Born to Run, and Saturday Night Live launched as a new show.
Bill Kane (left) of the N.H. Outdoor Council presents Rick Wilcox with the New Hampshire Search and Rescue Extraordinary Service Award for nearly 40 years of leadership as president of the volunteer Mountain Rescue Service. (ERIK EISELE PHOTO)
Forty years ago, Rick Wilcox hadn’t summited Everest yet. He didn’t own International Mountain Equipment, hadn’t led dozens of expeditions to the Alps, Africa, South America and Nepal, wasn’t the author of several guidebooks to New England ice and alpine climbing yet.
He wasn’t the elder statesman of the North Conway climbing community yet; he was just another young Mount Washington Valley climber, a mountaineer honing his skills on the local cliffs and ice flows.
But 40 years ago, when the phone rang and a rescue was called, Rick Wilcox went. And last weekend, he was honored.
On Sunday, March 22, officials from the New Hampshire Outdoor Council and the N.H. Fish and Game Department gathered at Cranmore Mountain Resort to present Wilcox with the New Hampshire Search and Rescue Extraordinary Service Award, given to search and rescue community members who display an ongoing standard of dedication, teamwork, professionalism, compassion and leadership.
Wilcox, 67, has served as the president of the North Conway-based volunteer Mountain Rescue Service for just shy of 40 years. In the organization’s history, there has been only one other president, who served the four years before Rick took office.
The organization provides manpower and expertise in environments and terrain beyond the scope of most rescue agencies — from the cliffs of Cathedral, Whitehorse and Cannon ledge to the summits of the Presidential Range in wintertime.
MRS has been involved in over 500 rescues, bolstering state Fish and Game and U.S. Forest Service personnel in the most extreme of circumstances, as in February, when Mountain Rescue Service volunteers took to the flanks of Mount Washington in 100-mph winds and subzero temperatures to search for a lost hiker.
These are conditions few rescue groups are prepared for, but for the close to 40 years Wilcox has helmed the service, MRS members have volunteered.
“When I first heard of this award, Rick was the first person I thought of,” said Bill Kane, a former MRS member and founding member of the New Hampshire Outdoor Council. It was Kane who submitted Wilcox’s name for consideration.
“This award was meant for someone like him,” Kane said. Among climbers, there is often an independent streak, he said, and that can make it hard to organize them. But Wilcox has been able to do just that. There were disagreements, Kane said, but they never hamstrung Mountain Rescue Service.
“Rick just listened and then kept leading,” he said. Forty years, he said, is “just an extraordinary tenure in this business.”
It’s on the cold, windy, raw days — days that most people don't spend outside — that Fish and Game calls Mountain Rescue, said Col. Marty Garabedian of Fish and Game. And on those days, he said, his officers “breathe easier,” knowing Wilcox is responding.
Among the 50 people who came to Zip’s Pub at Cranmore Sunday evening to honor Wilcox, a number were conservation officers, both active and retired. Many of the others were members of the rescue service itself or one of the other regional rescue organizations with which MRS members work.
The audience wasn’t lost on Wilcox.
“It’s a big family here tonight,” he said after Kane and Garabedian presented him with a framed award and showed him the plaque with his name on it.
“When I look at this award,” he said, “it may say my name on it, but it has everybody’s name on it.”
“It’s been a great 40 years,” he said. “This team has been a big part of my life. I was there when they started in 1971-72.” Individual volunteers may come and go, he said; they might be off for a night or traveling abroad, but “there’s always someone Fish and Game can call.”
The next Mountain Rescue president, however, won’t have the opportunity Wilcox had. “They have put in term limits,” he said. He’s four years into his last six-year limit.
Whoever takes his place, he said, he will support fully.
But whoever comes next, Kane added, will have big shoes to fill.
Cuacoatchoo
04-08-2015, 12:48
Hehe.
Applachian trail is like a green wonderland where everything is safe and fun. You can run for hours with your head swimming in dreams.
Himalayan mountains are the ultimate adrenaline rush. Snow covered crevasses and cornices can collapse at any moment beneath your feet. 100 mph winds can blow you off the mountain. Avalanches can occur several times an hour. Whiteout conditions can keep you from seeing the trail 10 feet away. 1 of every 3 people who have tried to climb Anapurna have died. 3 out of 3 have spent weeks trapped in base camp tents not moving because of bad weather.
And at 29,000 feet, it would not be weird if you collapsed every 20 feet from exhaustion as if you had just sprinted a mile.
Veteran mountaineer Wilcox gets lifetime achievement award
Published Date: Tuesday, 24 March 2015
By Erik Eisele
CONWAY — Forty years ago, the Vietnam War was ending. The U.S.S.R. dominated Eastern Europe. Gerald Ford was president. Bruce Springsteen released his third album, Born to Run, and Saturday Night Live launched as a new show.
Bill Kane (left) of the N.H. Outdoor Council presents Rick Wilcox with the New Hampshire Search and Rescue Extraordinary Service Award for nearly 40 years of leadership as president of the volunteer Mountain Rescue Service. (ERIK EISELE PHOTO)
Forty years ago, Rick Wilcox hadn’t summited Everest yet. He didn’t own International Mountain Equipment, hadn’t led dozens of expeditions to the Alps, Africa, South America and Nepal, wasn’t the author of several guidebooks to New England ice and alpine climbing yet.
He wasn’t the elder statesman of the North Conway climbing community yet; he was just another young Mount Washington Valley climber, a mountaineer honing his skills on the local cliffs and ice flows.
But 40 years ago, when the phone rang and a rescue was called, Rick Wilcox went. And last weekend, he was honored.
On Sunday, March 22, officials from the New Hampshire Outdoor Council and the N.H. Fish and Game Department gathered at Cranmore Mountain Resort to present Wilcox with the New Hampshire Search and Rescue Extraordinary Service Award, given to search and rescue community members who display an ongoing standard of dedication, teamwork, professionalism, compassion and leadership.
Wilcox, 67, has served as the president of the North Conway-based volunteer Mountain Rescue Service for just shy of 40 years. In the organization’s history, there has been only one other president, who served the four years before Rick took office.
The organization provides manpower and expertise in environments and terrain beyond the scope of most rescue agencies — from the cliffs of Cathedral, Whitehorse and Cannon ledge to the summits of the Presidential Range in wintertime.
MRS has been involved in over 500 rescues, bolstering state Fish and Game and U.S. Forest Service personnel in the most extreme of circumstances, as in February, when Mountain Rescue Service volunteers took to the flanks of Mount Washington in 100-mph winds and subzero temperatures to search for a lost hiker.
These are conditions few rescue groups are prepared for, but for the close to 40 years Wilcox has helmed the service, MRS members have volunteered.
“When I first heard of this award, Rick was the first person I thought of,” said Bill Kane, a former MRS member and founding member of the New Hampshire Outdoor Council. It was Kane who submitted Wilcox’s name for consideration.
“This award was meant for someone like him,” Kane said. Among climbers, there is often an independent streak, he said, and that can make it hard to organize them. But Wilcox has been able to do just that. There were disagreements, Kane said, but they never hamstrung Mountain Rescue Service.
“Rick just listened and then kept leading,” he said. Forty years, he said, is “just an extraordinary tenure in this business.”
It’s on the cold, windy, raw days — days that most people don't spend outside — that Fish and Game calls Mountain Rescue, said Col. Marty Garabedian of Fish and Game. And on those days, he said, his officers “breathe easier,” knowing Wilcox is responding.
Among the 50 people who came to Zip’s Pub at Cranmore Sunday evening to honor Wilcox, a number were conservation officers, both active and retired. Many of the others were members of the rescue service itself or one of the other regional rescue organizations with which MRS members work.
The audience wasn’t lost on Wilcox.
“It’s a big family here tonight,” he said after Kane and Garabedian presented him with a framed award and showed him the plaque with his name on it.
“When I look at this award,” he said, “it may say my name on it, but it has everybody’s name on it.”
“It’s been a great 40 years,” he said. “This team has been a big part of my life. I was there when they started in 1971-72.” Individual volunteers may come and go, he said; they might be off for a night or traveling abroad, but “there’s always someone Fish and Game can call.”
The next Mountain Rescue president, however, won’t have the opportunity Wilcox had. “They have put in term limits,” he said. He’s four years into his last six-year limit.
Whoever takes his place, he said, he will support fully.
But whoever comes next, Kane added, will have big shoes to fill.
Thanks for posting this. Great guy and a great family, although I have not seen them in quite a few years. Rick's slideshow and talk about his Everest trip was outstanding.