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smoothsailin
04-07-2015, 16:56
30491
I think I'll just sleep with my food.

4eyedbuzzard
04-07-2015, 17:11
Sounds like a good idea

30492

Traveler
04-07-2015, 17:12
I wonder if the next photo of that bear shows it with a snout and two lil eyes looking out from inside the little red house?

BirdBrain
04-07-2015, 17:14
All righty then. We cut to the chase on that ever rehashed debate in record time. This thread should be closed now. ;)

rocketsocks
04-07-2015, 17:49
Sounds like a good idea

30492Man they gave that tent one hell of a wedgie.

Sarcasm the elf
04-07-2015, 18:14
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/fc/4d/42fc4def69a392fabeb7fa34b9fda462.jpg

smoothsailin
04-07-2015, 18:54
30492

....maybe in Alaska...plus thats probably a staged picture by the hang your food bag movement...
Very few bears/tent incidents ( Are reported ?!?! )

4eyedbuzzard
04-07-2015, 18:59
30492

....maybe in Alaska...plus thats probably a staged picture by the hang your food bag movement...
Very few bears/tent incidents ( Are reported ?!?! )Very possibly staged, but no more so than a bear hanging from a rope.

Del Q
04-07-2015, 20:38
I have done both, and stayed in shelters which to me is 10x more risky, mice!

Hanging is a nice skill to perfect, fun to do, occasionally frustrating......typically have time at the end of the day

That said, more often than not I wind up at the end of the day completely exhausted, hungry, tired..........pitch my tent, get setup, eat. After that, I figure that if a bear or a critter wants my food we will work it out

Worst case, they take it all and I lose a few needed pounds with just water until I find a few pizzas

Carbo
04-07-2015, 21:23
I used a bear box on the trail in NJ. Somehow the mice got in and ate through the food bag and the food anyway. On one occasion when I hung the food it was full of ants the next morning. Very tempted to just keep it in the tent!

rickb
04-07-2015, 21:35
Looks real to me. Remember how people doubted this griz behavior before they got it on video?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eryxAcsTcOA?rel=0

swjohnsey
04-07-2015, 21:39
Folks who hang their food make a good diversion for those of use who sleep with their food, kinda like a bucket of chit at a Polish wedding.

BirdBrain
04-07-2015, 21:44
Lazy people are easily amused. Glad to help.

BirdBrain
04-07-2015, 21:52
Two things bother me about bear bag hangs. People providing easy food to critters because they don't know how to do it and all the broken string tangled in trees. Do it right guys or don't do it.

Lone Wolf
04-07-2015, 21:52
Lazy people are easily amused. Glad to help.

it's not laziness, it's higher intelligence

BirdBrain
04-07-2015, 21:55
it's not laziness, it's higher intelligence

It was tongue in cheek. I know you are not lazy.

swjohnsey
04-07-2015, 21:57
All the great inventions are the products of lazy people. Without lazy folks we would still be riding horses.

rickb
04-07-2015, 22:05
All the great inventions are the products of lazy people. Without lazy folks we would still be riding horses.

And opening beers with a churchkey.

Old Grouse
04-07-2015, 22:05
Keeping a horse is work. Lazier to walk ... Which is what we do!

Sarcasm the elf
04-07-2015, 22:24
And opening beers with a churchkey.


I still haven't found a church that uses those keys...

Fredt4
04-07-2015, 22:26
30491
I think I'll just sleep with my food.


Love this, reminds me of the acrobatic mice in the shelters in the Smokies.

Hangfire
04-08-2015, 00:58
Without exception I hung my food bag every night, had the squirrels defeat the PCT method twice but only lost cliff bars and my damn bag of triscuits but was able to slap on some duck tape patches and use the bag for all 2185 miles. I figured if I started cutting corners on the trail then maybe I shouldn't be out there, lots of corner cutting out there on the AT, sad to see...

MuddyWaters
04-08-2015, 03:07
This was a series of several pictures that went around some years back. They are photoshop-ed. (This is in image information someone busted)

Look at the direction of twist in the rope at bears paw on right. It changes . Ive never seen a rope do that before right in middle of rope.:) The rate of twist is different in all 3 segments in the photo too.

In first of the series where bear was in tree, it was clear the whole tree was inserted into image if you look at base of tree.

Regardless, young bears are acrobats and can do amazing things (to us).


30497

Pedaling Fool
04-08-2015, 08:24
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.

4eyedbuzzard
04-08-2015, 09:24
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.At least your behavior around animals is predictable.

Sarcasm the elf
04-08-2015, 10:14
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.

Any chance this works on shelter mice?

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 10:14
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.

Do you have the same approach with women? I am assuming Elf's assessment is correct as I type this.

Odd Man Out
04-08-2015, 11:15
..Do it (hang food) right guys or don't do it.

Yes, but this also applies to the "sleep with food" crowd. If you want your tent shredded, leave you food bag unattended in the tent (as in picture #2 above).

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 11:49
Yes, but this also applies to the "sleep with food" crowd. If you want your tent shredded, leave you food bag unattended in the tent (as in picture #2 above).

I agree. Good luck with that one though. I am told sleeping with food works 100% of the time and there is no such thing as a bear proof hang. You and I live in realville. Both work if done right. Both fail if done wrong. Like I said, good luck with that one.

Son Driven
04-08-2015, 12:05
During my 2013 AT thru hike I double bagged pack and all with trash compactor bags. Then I wrapped the entire package with my smelly hiker clothes, and placed it under my hammock. Never had a problem not even a mouse. My thinking was that wildlife has a God given instinctive fear of humans, and my smelly hiker clothes served as a deterrent. Perhaps further research should be one in regards to this method.

buckaroo007
04-08-2015, 12:11
If you want to find the easiest way to do a hard job, hire the laziest person to do it.

Odd Man Out
04-08-2015, 12:17
During my 2013 AT thru hike I double bagged pack and all with trash compactor bags. Then I wrapped the entire package with my smelly hiker clothes, and placed it under my hammock. Never had a problem not even a mouse. My thinking was that wildlife has a God given instinctive fear of humans, and my smelly hiker clothes served as a deterrent. Perhaps further research should be one in regards to this method.

Research has been done. Tom Smith is a well known bear biologist. He has said that "The presence of people is more of a deterrent than food is an attractant." Although he does not advocate sleeping with food, he states that some extreme measures to eradicate odor from tents (such as not sleeping in the clothes you cook in) are misguided. He cites a case of a woman who was "scalped" by a by a bear after using shampoo that had a very strong apricot scent. The bottom line is that your best defense is to smell like a human.

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 12:32
If you want to find the easiest way to do a hard job, hire the laziest person to do it.

Being a union member for 35 years, I would contend that the laziest person would simply not do the job at all. Somehow I think a creative person might see how that applies to this discussion. Given a choice, I would pick a creative person over a lazy person. They are not the same thing.

Son Driven
04-08-2015, 12:38
Thanks odd man out. As a hammock hanger I will continue on.

Old Grouse
04-08-2015, 12:52
If you want to find the easiest way to do a hard job, hire the laziest person to do it.

Or more likely the worst way or the incomplete way.

Old Grouse
04-08-2015, 12:54
If you want to find the easiest way to do a hard job, hire the laziest person to do it.

After the UConn womens' championship win last night, Geno Auriemma quoted Fred Astaire: "We have to work hard to make it look easy."

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 12:56
Research has been done. Tom Smith is a well known bear biologist. He has said that "The presence of people is more of a deterrent than food is an attractant." Although he does not advocate sleeping with food, he states that some extreme measures to eradicate odor from tents (such as not sleeping in the clothes you cook in) are misguided. He cites a case of a woman who was "scalped" by a by a bear after using shampoo that had a very strong apricot scent. The bottom line is that your best defense is to smell like a human.

And that is why hikers should not have anything with a peppermint odor. Trust me on this. I trapped animals for many years. Peppermint is an ingredient in many animal lures. It calls them in from miles away. I have heard people proclaim the opposite. I did okay as a trapper. I am not proud of that fact today. However, peppermint was part of my success. On the trail, I use unscented Dr Bronners for hygiene and baking soda for toothpaste.

Rolls Kanardly
04-08-2015, 13:03
Any chance this works on shelter mice?

And if you did not stop in time would you need a sponge?

Rolls

4eyedbuzzard
04-08-2015, 15:05
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.


Any chance this works on shelter mice?


And if you did not stop in time would you need a sponge?

Rolls
Or, maybe kabob skewers?

MuddyWaters
04-08-2015, 19:24
Research has been done. Tom Smith is a well known bear biologist. He has said that "The presence of people is more of a deterrent than food is an attractant." .......The bottom line is that your best defense is to smell like a human.

NOT if they are conditioned to food and people.

Tuckahoe
04-08-2015, 20:03
I love when I'm out running and I sneak up on a bear and then slam my foot on the ground and the bear tucks its tail in between its legs and is so fraught with fear it doesn't know whether to run or fall down in a submissive position.

Did we make it in before the perpetually offended and always butthurt?

Sarcasm the elf
04-08-2015, 20:12
NOT if they are conditioned to food and people.

Yes, but at that point hanging food won't do much good either. That problem is usually solved with a .308 and I'm not lugging one of those on the trail.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, if keeping people and bears safe is the goal, then all shelters and designated campsites should have steal bear boxes like we do use in the Northeast,

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 20:18
Fully agree Elf. Trouble is that many hikers treat those boxes as trash bins. See Seth Warner. Bear problems there. GMC tried to help by putting in a box. Hikers filled it with trash. Box got locked.

Lone Wolf
04-08-2015, 20:27
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if keeping people and bears safe is the goal, then all shelters and designated campsites should have steal bear boxes like we do use in the Northeast,
yup. it's a "no duh!!"

MuddyWaters
04-08-2015, 20:34
Fully agree Elf. Trouble is that many hikers treat those boxes as trash bins. See Seth Warner. Bear problems there. GMC tried to help by putting in a box. Hikers filled it with trash. Box got locked.

the caretaker will keep them clean.

Sarcasm the elf
04-08-2015, 20:34
Fully agree Elf. Trouble is that many hikers treat those boxes as trash bins. See Seth Warner. Bear problems there. GMC tried to help by putting in a box. Hikers filled it with trash. Box got locked.


The "it fills with trash" argument is a common argument, but I really feel it's a cop-out. A Bear box full of trash is still a box full of stuff that bears can't get into. I've hauled out plenty of stuff left by others in bear boxes, it's usually obvious that it was left by people with no idea what they were doing (styrofoam plates, plastic utensils, tin cans, gallon jugs, wrappers from wal-mart blue tarps, etc.) and I think it's reasonable to believe that most of it would have been left at the campsites regardless of whether the bear box was there or not. I'm just happy that the critters didn't get to it.

BirdBrain
04-08-2015, 20:41
Again, I agree. The box did not create the trash. Just wish people would not leave their trash. Saw bags of it all across Maine. I admit my point was not very valid. Just whining about human behavior on the trail. That human behavior thwarted the efforts to provide the box that we agree is a good thing. The trash caused the box to be locked. No more box to be used.

Fredt4
04-08-2015, 22:02
I sleep with my food, but I think some forget an important part. It works because the food isn't left unattended. Food left unattended in a tent, hanging food bag, car or whatever is an attractive target for bears and other critters.

Odd Man Out
04-08-2015, 22:33
I sleep with my food, but I think some forget an important part. It works because the food isn't left unattended. Food left unattended in a tent, hanging food bag, car or whatever is an attractive target for bears and other critters.

Exactly. People understand when you say that a lot of people don't hang their food correctly, but they laugh if you suggest that people may also sleep with their food incorrectly, but when you forget and leave your food in your tent unattended, that is essentially what you are doing.

I use unscented Ivory soap. As for toothpaste, I may have to re-evaluate given the minty warning by BB.

Sarcasm the elf
04-08-2015, 22:37
Exactly. People understand when you say that a lot of people don't hang their food correctly, but they laugh if you suggest that people may also sleep with their food incorrectly, but when you forget and leave your food in your tent unattended, that is essentially what you are doing.

I use unscented Ivory soap. As for toothpaste, I may have to re-evaluate given the minty warning by BB.


Agreed.

Also, this may be the first time I have ever seen a person use the phrase "minty warning."

full conditions
04-09-2015, 06:44
Agreed.

Also, this may be the first time I have ever seen a person use the phrase "minty warning."
I wish someone had given me a minty warning when I used Dr. Bronner's for the first time on ummmm... sensitive body parts.

Hangfire
04-09-2015, 12:14
One things for sure the Darwinian award won't go to the guy who hangs his food bag it will go to the guy using his food bag for a pillow.

Sarcasm the elf
04-09-2015, 13:24
One things for sure the Darwinian award won't go to the guy who hangs his food bag it will go to the guy using his food bag for a pillow.

The evidence strongly suggests it won't go to either.

Sarcasm the elf
04-09-2015, 13:26
I wish someone had given me a minty warning when I used Dr. Bronner's for the first time on ummmm... sensitive body parts.

The first time I showered using Doc Bronner's the person that gave it to me to purposely did not give any warning... :eek:

BirdBrain
04-09-2015, 13:47
The evidence strongly suggests it won't go to either.

History indicates that the only casualties will be to food and animals. As usual, the cause will not suffer as great a loss.

Old Grouse
04-09-2015, 13:56
The first time I showered using Doc Bronner's the person that gave it to me to purposely did not give any warning... :eek:

"Refreshing" on a good day. A real surprise if you have chafing!

Hangfire
04-09-2015, 15:26
History indicates that the only casualties will be to food and animals. As usual, the cause will not suffer as great a loss.

History is changing faster than anyone can wrap their minds around, more people, more bears, more encounters, it's just a matter of time.

Fredt4
04-09-2015, 22:18
History is changing faster than anyone can wrap their minds around, more people, more bears, more encounters, it's just a matter of time.

Years ago the shelters in the Smoky Mountains had wire fences to prevent the bears from getting into the shelters. Hikers would feed the bears from behind the fence. There were hourly encounters. Today there's no fences, people don't feed the bears and there's fewer encounters. When you hang your food from a tree the probability that a bear (if around) will get the food bag is fairly high, thus leading to a higher probability of an encounter. So the evidence is that sleeping with the food leads to far fewer encounters. In fact I've searched high and low for any encounter of a black bears attacking any hiker sleeping with their food any have found none. Personally I've seen many encounters between black bears getting a food bag from a tree and the hiker trying to scare off the bear, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

scyankee
04-09-2015, 22:26
so why does ATC SAY USE THE PCT METHPD? why not push the pillow method?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sarcasm the elf
04-09-2015, 22:33
so why does ATC SAY USE THE PCT METHPD? why not push the pillow method?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because of liability and other BS. Every now and then a bear pokes it's head in someone's tent, it's just gonna happen, but if an authority told you it was okay to sleep with your food then they would immediately be blamed for causing the bear encounter, whether or not the food had anything to do with it.

BirdBrain
04-09-2015, 22:37
so why does ATC SAY USE THE PCT METHPD? why not push the pillow method?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is a waste of time to chase false premises and red herrings. You will only come away wanting to hit your head on something.

BirdBrain
04-09-2015, 22:37
Elf has the answer. It is not a matter of viability. It is a matter of liability. Both work if done correctly. One way protects them better. One thing is certain. The ATC are not a bunch of idiots promoting a method that does not work.

Odd Man Out
04-10-2015, 00:17
In my e-mail conversations with Tom Smith, he agrees that the logic behind sleeping with food is sound and acknowledges that many wildlife biologists do this. However, he goes on to say that based on all of his experience, he chooses other options (hanging, canisters, and electric fences). My conclusion is that sleeping and hanging are both reasonable choices based on sound logic, evidence and science with the clear disclaimers that we are talking about using both strategies correctly and that the discussion is limited to the eastern U.S. I guess it should be no surprise that there is a debate about the "right" answer when there is not just one "right" answer. As for the ATC advocating one of these "right" answers, I would suggest that part of their motivation to advocate the PCT method is the attractiveness of conventional wisdom - it's familiar, easy, accessible, and safe.

I must admit I find the topic fascinating, partly because I am interested in our (i.e. people's) seemingly inherent inability to correctly assess risk. Every discussion about safety will eventually include the logic fallacy of "comparing one thing". In this context, there will always be the claim that sleeping with food is risky because bears are unpredictable wild animals and eventually, there will be one that will drag someone out of their tent, resulting in injury or death. While this is probably a true statement, it is irrelevant as a logical argument because it ignores the essential issue, which is how does the risk of one choice compare to the risk of the other. Because the risks associated with the alternative choices are often so different and difficult to assess, it becomes like comparing apples and oranges and the discussion digresses from logic to emotion.

BirdBrain
04-10-2015, 02:15
Well said OMO. HB opened my eyes to those truths. I once had a "my way is the only way" attitude towards this subject. He helped me see that there is usually many viable options when it comes to hiking choices. This is no exception.

Offshore
04-10-2015, 08:54
The "it fills with trash" argument is a common argument, but I really feel it's a cop-out. A Bear box full of trash is still a box full of stuff that bears can't get into. I've hauled out plenty of stuff left by others in bear boxes, it's usually obvious that it was left by people with no idea what they were doing (styrofoam plates, plastic utensils, tin cans, gallon jugs, wrappers from wal-mart blue tarps, etc.) and I think it's reasonable to believe that most of it would have been left at the campsites regardless of whether the bear box was there or not. I'm just happy that the critters didn't get to it.

I've carried trash out of bear boxes at shelters in NJ on occasion but its never really been bad. As Elf says, it prevents bear access to trash which affords the same benefit of preventing bears from associating shelter sites with food - bears don't differentiate food from garbage. In some trailhead parking areas in state forests and parks in NJ, they have bear resistant trash containers for the same reason.

Given the choice of sleeping with food, hanging, or using a bear box, I'll take the bear box. In the absence of a bear box, I hang. I understand risk - I work with risk assessments every day and the idea of sleeping with food just boggles my mind. By doing this, one is making an assumption that the presence of a human is probably more of a deterrent to a bear than the presence of food is an attractant. An occasional "expert study" may come along, but when it comes to personal safety, I don't care about probability - only one data point counts. The rapidly increasing bear population in northwest NJ combined with the increasing encounters with nuisance bears in this area make the idea of sleeping with food truly seem foolhardy. You don't need to be afraid of bears, but you need to recognize them as a potential hazard and use common sense (and very simple measures) to mitigate the risk.

illabelle
04-10-2015, 10:00
The rapidly increasing bear population in northwest NJ combined with the increasing encounters with nuisance bears in this area make the ideal of sleeping with food truly seem foolhardy. You don't need to be afraid of bears, but you need to recognize them as a potential hazard and use common sense (and very simple measures) to mitigate the risk.

When we hiked NJ spring of last year, we heard that there had been a bear hunt a few months earlier that had significantly reduced the population. We saw no bears at all.

illabelle
04-10-2015, 10:01
Where'd all the "frivolity" go?

Hangfire
04-10-2015, 11:13
When we hiked NJ spring of last year, we heard that there had been a bear hunt a few months earlier that had significantly reduced the population. We saw no bears at all.

I went through New Jersey in the summer (early August) and it was loaded with bears. This was the place that if you hadn't seen a bear yet you were probably going to see one, or in my case a dozen. There was also a hiker killed by a bear in Jersey last year but I don't think he was on the AT nor was he sleeping on his food bag so it doesn't count...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-usa-newjersey-bearattack-idUSKCN0HH1VY20140922

Offshore
04-10-2015, 14:09
When we hiked NJ spring of last year, we heard that there had been a bear hunt a few months earlier that had significantly reduced the population. We saw no bears at all.

I run into them pretty much every time I hike on AT here. According to NJ DEP, the 2014 hunt total was 272; 2013 was around 250. The 2014 numbers were probably affected by an early cold causing the bears to den earlier and by cold rainy weather for a lot of the week long hunt. From 2013 to 2014, reported sightings increased 38% and damage/nuisance complaints rose 58%. The estimated bear population prior to the 2014 hunt was 2800 - 3000 in the NW portion of the state (Where the majority are located, but bears are present in all 21 counties). Using the midpoint number of 2900, the 2014 hunt reduced population by about 9% in the NW portion of the state. I wouldn't consider that significant, given the increases in sightings and nuisance/damage reports despite the bear hunts.

I was talking to a long distance hiker the other night who told me he was more afraid of a black bear in camp than a grizzly on the trail. I'd never heard that perspective before.

Another Kevin
04-10-2015, 14:25
Warning: I'm a clueless weekender, so take what I say as a clueless position.

December to March around here, I don't worry. The bears have gone beddy-bye, and I sleep with my food.

Otherwise, when at established campsites, I hang (use bear boxes, etc.) - except that I rent a canister in Eastern High Peaks where canisters are required by law.

On bushwhacks, I know I'm not dealing with habituated bears. I hang if it's reasonable, but if I'm getting to a campsite when the light is fading, and I'm going to have a godawful time getting the line up a tree, I sleep with my food.

In Harriman, I might start hanging more often, after I had a fistfight with a raccoon in January. He didn't get my food, which was hanging from a nail on the shelter rafter. But he started dragging my empty pack out from under my feet, and made a fair distance by the time I had my bag unzipped and my shoes on to chase him. (Then again, hanging food wouldn't have kept him away, would it?)

Digger'02
04-10-2015, 15:19
Because of liability and other BS. Every now and then a bear pokes it's head in someone's tent, it's just gonna happen, but if an authority told you it was okay to sleep with your food then they would immediately be blamed for causing the bear encounter, whether or not the food had anything to do with it.

Sorry, but this is not the case. The ATC recommends hanging your food because all things being equal, it's the best call. Basically if you have to ask ATC, ATC is going to give you the best possible advice for the Trail, not what might be easy/ok for hikers given their current camping location.

MuddyWaters
04-10-2015, 15:30
Your food is safer with you.

You, are safer with your food somewhere else.


Hanging it properly, protects you , and the bear, reasonably well..

bfayer
04-10-2015, 15:55
Your food is safer with you.

You, are safer with your food somewhere else.


Hanging it properly, protects you , and the bear, reasonably well..

That is probably the most concise and reasoned answer to this issue I have ever read.

Agree completely.

Cuacoatchoo
04-10-2015, 15:59
I sleep with my food, but I think some forget an important part. It works because the food isn't left unattended. Food left unattended in a tent, hanging food bag, car or whatever is an attractive target for bears and other critters.

I agree bears are opportunist, but sometimes they see things differently than we do.

Last april in the smokies I got cornered at one of the firetowers. The bear didn't want to fight, but he kept creeping closer, clearly interested in my doritos. I figured out his strategy when the couple next to me did exactly what I told them not to do. They dropped their packs on the ground and climbed the fire tower. The bear took this as his queue and started creeping closer (20 feet). Shouting didn't deter him. Hitting him with rocks did.

I've heard several stories of bears encroaching the smokey mountain shelters. They may not be killing people which would make headlines, but they're hoping if they scare you, you'll throw food at them.

My fear, bear sees me sleeping. Thinks he could get into my backpack without waking me. I wake up and accidently scare him. He slashes my face with his claws.

If you're practicing good bear mitigation, you're cooking/eating/peeing away from both your tent and your bear bag. Hang the bag high, on a thin branch that can't support a cubs weight, tie the line off as far from the bag as you can. If they get my bag after all those efforts, I'll just switch to the cannister full time. So far though I've heard very few stories of bears getting well hung bags.

BirdBrain
04-10-2015, 16:14
Bears do not get properly hung bags. If a bear gets it, the bag was not properly hung. Too many people do it wrong. This creates the blind opinions of some. The same could be said about sleeping with food. How many stories have you heard about mice, squirrels, and chipmunks getting into food in shelters? Are we to conclude that sleeping with food never works because of those occurances? That would be ignorant. It is just a choice when it is done right.

Slo-go'en
04-10-2015, 16:57
Here's an excerpt from "ChamagneJam's 2015 TJ entry for 4-9-15:


We ran into Slow&Steady walking back from dinner and she had a very interesting night. She was sleeping in a bivy (ground shelter for a sleeping bag) and had a bear run it's snout down the side of her bag in the middle of the night looking for food, then wild boar visited her campsite, and she woke up with a spider bite. She was almost airlifted out, but was able to walk out and had a successful ER visit.

teefal
04-12-2015, 00:25
Aq2 Z JMM MY

martinb
04-14-2015, 16:09
Last april in the smokies I got cornered at one of the firetowers.

Bears in the Smokies are a different breed. Do not sleep with your food, there. I've had one pop out of a bush, after opening a bag of jerky, at a campsite.

I hang everywhere and have never had my food (or me) molested.

Wanderingventurer
04-15-2015, 20:07
Just use an Ursack and be done with it!

4eyedbuzzard
04-15-2015, 20:34
While bear attacks are VERY rare, they do unfortunately happen. And I don't think the notion that because an incident like the death in NJ last year "wasn't directly on the AT itself" changes anything. You are in the woods, on the bear's turf so to speak. The bear doesn't differentiate the AT from a blue blaze trail from any other man assigned definition. The more ways you can reduce the chance of winding up in unsafe proximity to a bear, or worse drawing one to you by your behavior, the better. Hanging food away from your camp is obviously less likely to attract a bear directly to you than sleeping right next to it. Bears are big, wild animals. Generally they will run off when they see/sense a human and want no part of us. But the fact remains that if they wanted to, they can run you down and kill you at will. Just be cautious and respectful.

Red Tail
04-15-2015, 20:49
after 13 years of section hiking, I still hang my food. Yes, after doing it over 100 times, throwing the rope over a branch is still NOT easy, nd provides comic relief for others, but it gives me the peace of mind to know bears will not be attracted to my tent. There is a SMALL possibility of a bear getting into the food in a tree and a perhaps SMALLER possibility of a bear ripping open my tent to get at the food and me inside. I'll still stick to the tree.

Tuckahoe
04-16-2015, 08:35
While bear attacks are VERY rare, they do unfortunately happen. And I don't think the notion that because an incident like the death in NJ last year "wasn't directly on the AT itself" changes anything. You are in the woods, on the bear's turf so to speak. The bear doesn't differentiate the AT from a blue blaze trail from any other man assigned definition. The more ways you can reduce the chance of winding up in unsafe proximity to a bear, or worse drawing one to you by your behavior, the better. Hanging food away from your camp is obviously less likely to attract a bear directly to you than sleeping right next to it. Bears are big, wild animals. Generally they will run off when they see/sense a human and want no part of us. But the fact remains that if they wanted to, they can run you down and kill you at will. Just be cautious and respectful.

Right, black bear attacks and fatalities are very rare. But the common factor with the great majority of fatal black bear attacks were predatory with the unfortunate death of Darsh Patel being a classis example. I really just do not care whether hikers choose to hang or sleep with their food to me it is a silly debate. Rather realize that its not your food, but when the bear sees you as food, you're fooked!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Fredt4
04-17-2015, 01:42
It's not really a question about which is safer. Bears are not attacking hikers sleeping with their food, it just doesn't happen. Hanging your food will not reduce the probability that a bear will attack you, again it's not happening.
, so don't believe hanging is a safety measure, it's not. You hang food to prevent bears from getting the food and becoming a nuisance bear, requiring that the bear be relocated or shot (destroyed). The reason many of us object to hanging the food is that many if not most will not hang their food properly, therefore hanging food is basically the same as leaving the food unattended and available to the bears. Yes, I accept and understand that a minority of hikers hang the food correctly (or appear to do so), but the evidence is that the vast majority of hikers are unable or unwilling to hang their food correctly.

daddytwosticks
04-17-2015, 07:14
I do believe a fellow Whiteblazer had a bear come into his tent as he slept with his food. Maybe happened several years ago on the AT in Tenn? Was it Chaco Taco? :)

Sarcasm the elf
04-17-2015, 07:58
Post hoc ergo proctor hoc?

Offshore
04-17-2015, 11:23
Post hoc ergo proctor hoc?

If this did occur, it obviously wasn't due to the food being an attractant. The bear obviously came in to complain about the tenter snoring too loudly and to ask them to move to a shelter. Quod erat demonstratum (N.B. the phrase is not really applicable, but don't you think Latin adds an air of authority?)

BirdBrain
04-17-2015, 12:05
Ergo Cogito Spud

Or as Popeye would say, I yam what I yam.

Don't groan. Makes as much sense as the debate.

HooKooDooKu
04-17-2015, 16:08
Bears in the Smokies are a different breed. Do not sleep with your food, there. I've had one pop out of a bush, after opening a bag of jerky, at a campsite.
GSMNP has the issue that there are relatively few campsites that are fixed in location that get relatively concentrated-season-long use. Simply put, there is a greater potential for creating habitual bears if food is not hung.

And given that EVERY campsite in GSMNP has easy to use bear cables installed, there's very little excuse to not hang your food in GSMNP.

Finally, GSMNP REQUIRES that you hang your food.

jeffmeh
04-17-2015, 21:47
While bear attacks are VERY rare, they do unfortunately happen. And I don't think the notion that because an incident like the death in NJ last year "wasn't directly on the AT itself" changes anything. You are in the woods, on the bear's turf so to speak. The bear doesn't differentiate the AT from a blue blaze trail from any other man assigned definition. The more ways you can reduce the chance of winding up in unsafe proximity to a bear, or worse drawing one to you by your behavior, the better. Hanging food away from your camp is obviously less likely to attract a bear directly to you than sleeping right next to it. Bears are big, wild animals. Generally they will run off when they see/sense a human and want no part of us. But the fact remains that if they wanted to, they can run you down and kill you at will. Just be cautious and respectful.

If the bear takes blue blazes, does it count? :)