Are these items needed for JMT....mid sept hike......

[saltysack]

The following are items I seldom carry for my southern AT section hikes...(Va-Ga). Trying to stay light as I'm on a tight schedule....do I need these?

Bug spray
Bug net
Sun block( will be wearing a long sleeve shirt, hat and buff)
Extra fuel can..(mtr-whitney) 7 day..cook kit contains SP 600 to pot/mug, SP lite max stove mini bic...plan to boil (1x)2 cups in morning for coffee and (1-2x)2-3 cups in evening for dinner and tea/coffee. I'm thinking about bringing a few esbit tabs and one can of fuel. Can use esbit w rocks as pot stand if needed..also as emergency fire starter.
Rain pants vs rain wrap.....no it's not a skirt![emoji1]...always carry on AT as I sweat out to fast in rain paints especially dri Ducks!!!
Sit pad...cut down zlite pad(my dogs bed also)...always carry....
Extra pair under armor compression underwear...since wearing shorts I'm thinking about getting a pair in full length to keep legs lil warmer. I usually wear shorts if weather is forecasted above freezing..I could rotate and swim in as I'm not bringing baggies..
Gaiters....never used before but seems most wear on JMT...dirty girl are recommended?
Trowel...is ground to hard to use tent stake or trekking pole?

Trying to limit stuff that don't really need as trying to keep dry pack under 12lbs w empty BV450 or 500..

Thx for all the advice


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[Lyle]

Last summer, Aug 20th into the middle of Sept, HI to Bishop, we had zero insect problems. Sun block would be good if you normally use it - I don't and didn't carry anything other than long sleeves and a brimmed hat for sun protection.

I do not believe Esbit is legal. Virtually impossible to get in that area - I tried. None of the outfitters in Mammoth carried it, nor the hardware store. VVR told me they had some collecting dust on a shelf somewhere, but no longer stock it. For fuel, I would carry a large and a small canister - should be plenty for what you describe.

I carried and used my rain wrap on the JMT last summer - worked same as it does on the AT. Since you are later in the year, though, cold wind may be a bigger issue for you, but I've used a wrap in Minnesota in early spring for wind/rain/sleet/snow (all the same day) conditions and I was satisfied.

I always carry/use a sit pad of some type. Definitely worth it on JMT - mostly granite to sit on.

I never carry underwear.

I've used gaiters for snow and mud in the past. I did not carry, and did not miss gaiters on the JMT. Legs/feet get dirty from the dust, but they rinse right off quickly. Don't believe I ever had to pull anything out of my shoe.

I never carry a trowel, just use a stick. Was no more of an issue on the JMT then on other trails, in my opinion. JMT offers some nice sharp rocks for digging as well. Sometimes the only reasonable option is the "under the rock" method, then place a "X" of sticks on top of the rock to warn others.

[August W.]

Bug spray and net = No
Sun block = Yes. Even for your hands. The sun is brutal above above treeline.
Extra fuel = Yes. Trade it or give it away if you find you don't need it.
Rain pants instead of kilt/wrap. Likely won't see rain but the pants will help with the cold and wind. Many people don't spend as much time on top of Whitney as they planned due to being too cold.
Sit pad = Meh... flip a coin.
Extra underwear = Yes. Expect the unexpected.
Gaiters = Yes. Hiking in shorts without gaiters will allow dust/dirt and pebbles into your boots.
Trowel = Yes... or take one large tent stake that can double as a trowel.

[MuddyWaters]

no bug spray
no sunblock.
Long sleeve vented shirt, long vented pants, broad brimmed hat, glacier gloves = all permethrin treated
If you wear mesh trail runners you will want gaiters to help keep socks clean. I had to rinse out socks about every 10 miles due to dirt (with gaiters)
Ground is soft under trees where there is a buildup of duff. End or trekking pole and heel work fine. Expect to dig up previous catholes. Any spot that looks good to you, looked good to someone else before.

Many people use ponchos. I was glad for rainpants crossing 12000 ft passes in driving rain/hail at 45F.
I wouldnt bring extra anything, except camera batteries.

[saltysack]

Thx all...forgot to also list a ground cloth for my solong6 or if I cowboy camp using just neoair...I assume the rocky ground would damage the floor faster than dirt...either tyvek or that thin poly.....


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[August W.]

Please consider taking extra ditty bags for when you have to poop in alpine areas where the soil is too thin to dig a proper cat hole. Human turds take much, much longer to decompose in an alpine environment and those same rocks that too many folks are setting on top of their crap and toilet paper are the same rocks that many other hikers are using when tent stakes can't be driven into the ground, and to repair the trail with. Many of the same areas that don't have enough soil depth for a cat hole also don't have sticks to flag your turd rock with. The JMT deserves LNT as does your fellow hikers.

[Lyle]

I used a double layer of polycryo for ground cloth, worked fine.

Regarding rocks in place of cat holes: no different than digging up someone else's cat hole (as mentioned above). Pack out all TP, no matter what method you use. Use some common sense, when doing your business, go a long way off trail/away from camp. Try to do your business between camps if possible. Never ran into a situation where there were No sticks to mark a rock - didn't use a rock all that often.

In Pacific northwest, I know the method was to carry chalk to mark a rock. Washed off eventually, prevented others from using the same rock while still fresh. Worked for them. I know, more rain, quicker break-down.

Was much less of a problem than a lot of the AT is.

Use a wag bag if you are concerned.

[MuddyWaters]

215 miles =1,135,200 ft

50 people per day, 1 poop each, for 4 months, 20 days average on trail time. = 50*120*20=120,000 backcountry poops on trail per year.

1135200/120000 = 9.5 One poop every 9.5 ft of trail, per year. Multiply that by many years in operation. Way more common in the frequent camping areas as well than on the trail.

make no mistake, heavily used trails have heavy impacts. From the trail, or common campsites, the attractive out-of-sight places to squat are limited. I personally dug up 4 prior catholes, I knew because of the TP.

In spite of this, its immaculate compared to the mess around shelters and privies on the AT. You can figure what the difference is.

[saltysack]

Is it considered ethical to bury ship.....and burn either tp or degradable wipes?


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[saltysack]

That is if it's in a fire approved area? Whith this question comes another.. Does mtr have a legit trash can you can use?


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[MuddyWaters]

MTR will take your trash. There is a lot of trash generated picking up resupplies and packing bearcans.

Dont expect any fire approved areas.

You arent supposed to, but I use so little TP, just a few squares (after wiping with stick and rocks, etc,) that I put it in hole mix with dirt, add some water, swill around, and it dissolves and goes away, mixed with the dirt. This doesnt work for huge gobs of TP that 99% of people use, which is why TP is supposed to be packed out..

wipes dont biodegrade reasonably , I wouldnt bring them.

[saltysack]

Wiping w a rock or stick........ouch...usually use lil tp then for that extra fresh feeling use one rehydrated wet wipe...I usually pack out the wipes anyway.....thx


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[August W.]

215 miles =1,135,200 ft

50 people per day, 1 poop each, for 4 months, 20 days average on trail time. = 50*120*20=120,000 backcountry poops on trail per year.

1135200/120000 = 9.5 One poop every 9.5 ft of trail, per year. Multiply that by many years in operation. Way more common in the frequent camping areas as well than on the trail.

make no mistake, heavily used trails have heavy impacts. From the trail, or common campsites, the attractive out-of-sight places to squat are limited. I personally dug up 4 prior catholes, I knew because of the TP.

In spite of this, its immaculate compared to the mess around shelters and privies on the AT. You can figure what the difference is.

Well done! Thanks for posting some poop math. I was tempted to but had other things to work on. I imagine that if the JMT continues to grow in popularity we will see more sections of it be deemed wag bag only as the Whitney zone is currently.

[August W.]

Regarding rocks in place of cat holes: no different than digging up someone else's cat hole (as mentioned above).

For those of us who only dig cat holes with digging implements and pick up rocks with our bare hands there is quite a difference. As someone who has picked up a rock in the backcountry and been surprised to find someone else's poop stuck to it I appreciate that you make the effort to mark your turd tombstones.

[wornoutboots]

No bugs for me last year Mid August - Early Sept
Yes on the Sunblock
Yes on Fuel
I don't carry rain pants (only felt @ 5 drops last year)
Sit pad no, always a comfortable rock or soft spongy meadow to sit/lay down one
I hiked commando but took a pair of compression shorts, didn't use them
Gaiters yes, lots of pebbles www.dirtygirlgaiters.com for @ $20
Trowel its up to you, I don;t carry one, I normally find a heavy stick or slender rock to dig with

[saltysack]

Anyone know if AT&T has any cell service at any of the passes? Seems like I remember a you tube video where a guy makes a call home....I'm carrying a spot to keep the wife happy.....just curious about cell service


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[QiWiz]

The following are items I seldom carry for my southern AT section hikes...(Va-Ga). Trying to stay light as I'm on a tight schedule....do I need these?
Thx for all the advice

Bug spray - NOT NEEDED
Bug net - NOT NEEDED
Sun block( will be wearing a long sleeve shirt, hat and buff) - GOOD IDEA
Extra fuel can..(mtr-whitney) 7 day..cook kit contains SP 600 to pot/mug, SP lite max stove mini bic...plan to boil (1x)2 cups in morning for coffee and (1-2x)2-3 cups in evening for dinner and tea/coffee. I'm thinking about bringing a few esbit tabs and one can of fuel. Can use esbit w rocks as pot stand if needed..also as emergency fire starter. - GOOD IDEA (Esbit is legal BTW, used it as my only fuel in 2014 JMT thru)
Rain pants vs rain wrap.....no it's not a skirt![emoji1]...always carry on AT as I sweat out to fast in rain paints especially dri Ducks!!! - - GOOD IDEA (pants, IMO)
Sit pad...cut down zlite pad(my dogs bed also)...always carry.... - GOOD IDEA
Extra pair under armor compression underwear...since wearing shorts I'm thinking about getting a pair in full length to keep legs lil warmer. I usually wear shorts if weather is forecasted above freezing..I could rotate and swim in as I'm not bringing baggies.. - GOOD IDEA
Gaiters....never used before but seems most wear on JMT...dirty girl are recommended? - GOOD IDEA
Trowel...is ground to hard to use tent stake or trekking pole? - GOOD IDEA, ground varies, sometimes challenging/rocky, QiWiz.net has some nice ones ; )

Trying to limit stuff that don't really need as trying to keep dry pack under 12lbs w empty BV450 or 500.. - Make sure the food you need to carry fits in your canister - you may want to rent a Bearikade Expedition

[QiWiz]

Anyone know if AT&T has any cell service at any of the passes? Seems like I remember a you tube video where a guy makes a call home....I'm carrying a spot to keep the wife happy.....just curious about cell service


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Cell service pretty limited, especially with ATT, and especially S of MTR. Could not even get a signal from the top of Whitney. Verizon seemed to be a bit better.

[saltysack]

Thx for great info....qiwiz....


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[MuddyWaters]

Anyone know if AT&T has any cell service at any of the passes? Seems like I remember a you tube video where a guy makes a call home....I'm carrying a spot to keep the wife happy.....just curious about cell service


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Not really. Donahue pass is line of sight to mammoth so you get signal there, tuolumne as well, and reds meadow, and lake edison beach where vvr picks up( 1+ mile from trail). Thats really it. Maybe whitney. Verizon is a little better on a few passes and whitney. It can be variable depending on phone and weather conditions.

[Miner]

I was snowed on with several inches on a Sept 19th one year (was 17f) so I'd prefer rain pants. Bugs aren't s problem in Sept.
ATT had coverage at Lake Edison by the shore (but not in VVR itself) Verizon worked on Mt Whitney. Both worked at Tuolumne Meadows.

[saltysack]

Who makes good lt wt rain pants? I guess could test the great REI return policy....return after trip....


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[saltysack]

That is if I don't use them...[emoji16]


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[Venchka]

Sunscreen now...
or
...liquid nitrogen spray and/or slice and dice later.
Not using sunscreen at altitude falls into the category of "Stupid Light".
Your choice.
Spoken from experience with multiple liquid nitrogen spray and slice & dice events.
Good luck.

Wayne

[saltysack]

Sunscreen now...
or
...liquid nitrogen spray and/or slice and dice later.
Not using sunscreen at altitude falls into the category of "Stupid Light".
Your choice.
Spoken from experience with multiple liquid nitrogen spray and slice & dice events.
Good luck.

Wayne

Yep...my wife is always on my arse about using it....we live at the beach...I'll prob take a lil zinc.


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[MuddyWaters]

Not using sunscreen at altitude falls into the category of "Stupid Light".
Your choice.
Spoken from experience with multiple liquid nitrogen spray and slice & dice events.
Good luck.

Wayne

Ridiculous
Use protective clothing and a big hat, you dont need sunscreen at all
It kills species in the water there that are extremely sensitive to it.

[colorado_rob]

Ridiculous
Use protective clothing and a big hat, you dont need sunscreen at all
It kills species in the water there that are extremely sensitive to it.Not sure when all this anti-sunscreen hyperbole started, but unless you want to be totally covered, including gloves and a face mask, the entire time, take a bit of sunscreen. I find an ounce lasts me about two weeks, just a dab on the backs of my legs, hands and neck allows one to wear shorts, not wear gloves, and protects that little v-shaped area where I unzip my zip-neck top. The UV, obviously, is intense at altitude, and on a partly cloudy day, even the reflection of bright sun off clouds can create a diffuse field of intense UV that comes from lower angles that can fry your uncovered face, even with a big floppy hat. The good news is that this is quite reduced by mid-September, but still around.

I won't diverge from the original thread anymore than to say according to a pediatrician hiking friend of mine, there has been a weird resurgence of rickets in kids in the US in the last 10 years or so, and one theory is the lack of Vitamin D, which of course is created in the skin from sunlight. Parents are sending their kids out dressed like Arabs in the desert, completely covered, apparently. We all need vitamin D, and to me that means some sun, hence why I use only SPF30 in the spring & summer and SPF 15 in the fall, and again, just on those critical areas.

Take a bit of sunscreen, use it sparingly, at least if you are a pasty-white as I am.

[saltysack]

I'm not a big sun block wearer in Fl, mainly long sleeve exofficio sun shirt with hat but realize at altitude it's more intense....had the raccoon eyes from ski goggles more than once. As muddy said I realize there are very sensitive creatures in the alpine lakes and streams. Are there any Enviro sensitive sunblocks that work? I might bring a lil bit for face, neck and back of hands...cant imagine sleeping with it caked on....like bug spray...I guess could fill the bear can with water and dr b take a sponge bath so doesn't get into water......


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[colorado_rob]

Are there any Enviro sensitive sunblocks that work? This would be a great thing to research. I'm going to surf around a bit. My first thoughts are that a zinc-based product would be better than some, but just a guess.

FWIW: Most sunscreen evaporates off the body, if you wash hands in a stream right after putting it on, that's one thing. If you wash up in the afternoon once 95% of the sunscreen has evaporated, I would imagine only the tiniest traces of product getting into any water. But the bear-can thing or something similar would eliminate even that.

[MuddyWaters]

Are there any Enviro sensitive sunblocks that work?

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http://www.harmonizedwater.com/UVProtection.aspx

Try it and report back

[colorado_rob]

http://www.harmonizedwater.com/UVProtection.aspx

Try it and report backsorry, with due respect, that is just modern snake oil. Be careful, SS.

[fastfoxengineering]

Not sure when all this anti-sunscreen hyperbole started, but unless you want to be totally covered, including gloves and a face mask, the entire time, take a bit of sunscreen. I find an ounce lasts me about two weeks, just a dab on the backs of my legs, hands and neck allows one to wear shorts, not wear gloves, and protects that little v-shaped area where I unzip my zip-neck top. The UV, obviously, is intense at altitude, and on a partly cloudy day, even the reflection of bright sun off clouds can create a diffuse field of intense UV that comes from lower angles that can fry your uncovered face, even with a big floppy hat. The good news is that this is quite reduced by mid-September, but still around.

I won't diverge from the original thread anymore than to say according to a pediatrician hiking friend of mine, there has been a weird resurgence of rickets in kids in the US in the last 10 years or so, and one theory is the lack of Vitamin D, which of course is created in the skin from sunlight. Parents are sending their kids out dressed like Arabs in the desert, completely covered, apparently. We all need vitamin D, and to me that means some sun, hence why I use only SPF30 in the spring & summer and SPF 15 in the fall, and again, just on those critical areas.

Take a bit of sunscreen, use it sparingly, at least if you are a pasty-white as I am.

I agree. I'm about as white as they come. I burn when it's overcast..walking to my car. Sun protective clothing definitely is better than sunblock, but I still carry 0.5oz of some quality sunscreen. I'll use it sparingly where it's needed.

[CarlZ993]

The following are items I seldom carry for my southern AT section hikes...(Va-Ga). Trying to stay light as I'm on a tight schedule....do I need these?

Bug spray
Bug net
Sun block( will be wearing a long sleeve shirt, hat and buff)
Extra fuel can..(mtr-whitney) 7 day..cook kit contains SP 600 to pot/mug, SP lite max stove mini bic...plan to boil (1x)2 cups in morning for coffee and (1-2x)2-3 cups in evening for dinner and tea/coffee. I'm thinking about bringing a few esbit tabs and one can of fuel. Can use esbit w rocks as pot stand if needed..also as emergency fire starter.
Rain pants vs rain wrap.....no it's not a skirt![emoji1]...always carry on AT as I sweat out to fast in rain paints especially dri Ducks!!!
Sit pad...cut down zlite pad(my dogs bed also)...always carry....
Extra pair under armor compression underwear...since wearing shorts I'm thinking about getting a pair in full length to keep legs lil warmer. I usually wear shorts if weather is forecasted above freezing..I could rotate and swim in as I'm not bringing baggies..
Gaiters....never used before but seems most wear on JMT...dirty girl are recommended?
Trowel...is ground to hard to use tent stake or trekking pole?

Trying to limit stuff that don't really need as trying to keep dry pack under 12lbs w empty BV450 or 500..

Thx for all the advice


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My $0.02 worth from my 2004 JMT thru-hike & my 2012 Lake Tahoe to Tuolumne Meadows hike:
Bug protection: Not needed for Sept hike; maybe an occasional mosquito wearing a parka may bother you :)
Sunblock: I'd bring it; pretty intense sun when you're above timberline; even w/ a wide-brim hat, your face w/ get a lot of sun; so will the back of your hands (if you use hiking poles); use sunscreen now or you'll be seeing your skin doctor frequently when you're older (like me)
One can of fuel w/ Espit backup: might be able to make it thru... might not; a more fuel efficient system (but heavier) such as a JetBoil or MSR Reactor would easily work w/ one canister; another possibility would be the Soto Windmaster stove - more fuel efficient that regular canister stoves; anyway, one regular canister w/ a smaller one might be the ticket w/ your current setup.
Rain pants: I'd say 'yes' for warmth.
Sit pad: I'd say 'yes' for this luxury item; something to put down on cold &/or wet ground on breaks & while in camp.
Underwear: Personal preference item here; I use lined running shorts as my underwear (2 pair on most hikes; 3 pair if I'm expecting a lot of rain)
Gaiters: Always used them; used Dirty Girl Gaiters the last couple of years; really like them!
Trowel: I'd take one (or use a snow/sand stake); QiWiz makes a nice titanium trowel that I love; uber-light; assuming you're SoBo; you'll have to pick up a poop bag @ Crabtree meadows for your last day (summit & down).
Phone service: Didn't carry one in 2004; did borrow a phone atop Whitney to make a call; only Verizon had service among the multitude of different phone carriers; the Verizon guy loaned out his phone to a bunch of people; unsure how the coverage issues have changed since then.

Enjoy your hike!! Ansel Adams moments everywhere.