Whats your favorite loop?

[blue indian]

What is your favorite loop in the Smokies? Ive done a few of them and im looking for fresh ideas. Ideally 3-4 days. Here are the ones Ive done so far..

- Maddron Bald loop
- Forney Creek loop
- Gregory Bald loop
- In and out of Hazel Creek

[tim.hiker]

I haven't done all the loops but loved Forney creek to Jonas Creek and then to AT trail start and finish at Clings man dome that a 2 is nights ... Hazel Creek is next on my list....

[madgoat]

Mt. Sterling/Mt. Cammerer
There are a few different ways to approach this loop and plenty of campsites/shelters to make it as many or as few nights as you like. Great chance to stay up high for a few days since most of this loop is on ridgelines. Great views from the Mt. Sterling fire tower at campsite 38 and from the firetower on top of Mt. Cammerer. The views from Balsam Mtn and the AT are good too, especially if you go in late fall or early spring.

Start at Big Creek
Day 1 - Baxter Creek to campsite 38
Day 2 - Mt. Sterling Ridge, Balsam Mtn to Tricorner Knob Shelter
Day 3 - AT to Cosby Knob Shelter
Day 4 - AT, Mt. Cammerer, Chestnut Branch back to Big Creek

You could make this loop shorter by just hiking out from Big Creek on the Big Creek Trail, stay at 37, then go up to the AT via Low Gap and return to Big creek via the AT, Mt. Cammerer, and Chestnut Branch.

You could make this loop longer by adding a visit down into Cataloochee valley to look for Elk and visit some of the historic buildings on the Little Cataloochee trail.

I love this area of the park.

[HooKooDooKu]

With just a little creativity there are numerous loop you can do... especially if you are willing to do a little road walking.

As an example a great loop that let's you see the views from Thunder Head Mountain is to park at the Middle Prong trail head and hike to Derrick Knob Shelter via Greenbrier Ridge Trail. Then hike over Thunder head to Spence Field Shelter. Then hike Bote Mtn trail toward Tremont. It’s then a 3 mile road walk back to Middle Prong.

[madgoat]

Nice Loop HKDK. Middle Prong is one of my favorite trails in the park with the cascade very close to the trailhead and a great hike along the thundering creek.

[tim.hiker]

Make sure you have safe parking over night...

[PatmanTN]

wow there are so many great ones....a couple weekends ago I hit the classic Big Creek, Gunter Fork, Balsam Mtn, Sterling Ridge, Baxter Creek route.



A really great long weekend loop (well not an exact loop) is to park near Cades Cove loop road entrance (or general area), take Anthony creek / Bote/ AT to Jenkins Ridge, then down to Pickens Gap and pick up the old abandoned Pinnacle Creek trail (one of the few unmaintained trails that has trail head signs reading "unmaintained trail") and take that to Eagle Creek, back up to Spence and back down Bote. Many potentially tough crossings, so warm weather is better, multiple camping options on that route

just about any of the loops you can pick off the map up to the AT back down can be really enjoyable depending on what you're after.

[HooKooDooKu]

Make sure you have safe parking over night...
I have not heard of any unsafe overnight parking anywhere in the park as of late. Some breaking inevitably occur so you don't want to make your car a target by keeping stuff in plain view. But ever since they caught the guy breaking into cars at the Maddon Bald trail head, I have not heard of any warning g about over night parking at any GSMNP tail head. Has any one heard to the contrary?

[HooKooDooKu]

If you are looking for a really short loop and water levels are not too high you can park at Abrams Creek Ranger station and hike Rabbit Creek to CS15. Then backtrack to Hannah Mtn trail and cross Abrams Creek to reach CS17. Finish the loop by walking to Abrams Creek campground. A short road walk will get you back to your car.

While I am sure that Abrams Creek can be a dangerous crossing in high water, I've had no trouble taking an 8yo thru this crossing multiple times. I hike my pack across first to find a good path through that water then return to help my son across.

If you should find the crossing too dangerous, you can always back track to Rabbit Creek. If you can not make it all the way back to your car in one day, you can always stay at CS16. No Ranger is going to fine you for staying at CS16 when you are supposed to be at CS17 when the reason is for safety.


A slightly longer version of this hike that doesn't have any potentially dangerous water crossing is to start at the Abrams Falls trailhead and hike to CS17. Continue to Abrams Creek campground and hike the road to access Rabbit Creek and CS15. Finish Rabbit Creek to return to your car. The crossing of Abrams Creek at Rabbit Creek trailhead is via log bride. There is a creek crossing just before CS15 and another where Rabbit Creek ends at Abrams Falls trailhead. Neither is a rock hopper, but compared to Abrams Creek, both are shallow and tame.

[HooKooDooKu]

Here is a long two night loop that is not very obvious...

Park at Clingman's Dome parking lot. Hike to the observation tower and then along the AT towards Siler's Bald. Turn left down Welch Ridge and left again down Jonas Creek to CS70. The next day follow Forney Creek to Whiteoak Branch and on thru the tunnel at the end of the road to nowhere. Follow the road to Noland Creek (trailhead is on the right and will take you under the bridge). Follow Noland Creek to CS62. Continue up Noland Creek and then use Noland Divide to reach Clingman's Dome Road. Turn right away from Clingman's Dome and hike the road for about 3/4ths of a mile. You will come to a saddle In the mountain where you can easily walk a few steps thru the grass to access the AT. Turn left onto the AT to return to Clingman's Dome.

[madgoat]

I have parked all over the GSMNP at large parking lots, and at trailhead 2 car dirt pull offs. I often leave my car for 5 days at a time. The worst we have had happen was a tree fell across the road just a few inches from our bumper, and mouse invasions. My own personal experience mirrors 99.9999% of all the other people who have parked their cars in the GSMNP. Please don't let the threat of a possible car break in deter you from parking your car and taking a hike.

BTW, I just parked at the Maddron Bald trailhead a few weeks ago and had no problems.

[HooKooDooKu]

An alternate (relatively long) Gregory Bald loop:

Park at Abrams Creek trailhead. Hike Abrams Creek to Hannah Mtn to CS14. Continue on Hannah Mtn to Gregory Bald trail to CS13. Hike down Gregory Ridge and then Forge Creek Road and Cades Cove.Loop road to return to your car. For a faster exit, park at Gregory Ridge Trail and hike Forge Creek, Cades Cove, Abrams Creek and Hannah Mtn to CS14 the first day. That way your last day is the hike across the bald and down Gregory Ridge.

[HooKooDooKu]

BTW, I just parked at the Maddron Bald trailhead a few weeks ago and had no problems.
I pointed out Maddron.Bald because the Brown Book specifically warns about that parking spot. But I had heard more than a year ago that they caught the criminal (someone who lived near by) and that it hasn't been a problem spot since.

[HooKooDooKu]

If.you like shelters, here's a two night loop for you I did with my son and a friend:

Take Strait Fork road to Hyatt Ridge Trail (the parking is a short distance past the trailhead). Hike Hyatt, Enola Creek and Hughes Ridge to reach Pecks Corner. The next day hike the AT to Tricorner for lunch. Then hike Balsam Mtn over to Laural Gap. Complete the loop via Beach Gap and Strait Fork road.

[gollwoods]

pne I did but would not really be thrilled to repeat, start smokemont, cross road and up newton bald for overnight one. take the thomas divide up to kanati fork and down to the road cross to kephart up to shelter night two. take the grassy branch up to richland mountain, turn left to A T go NB to pecks on hughes ridge night three. finally down hughes and bradley fork to smokemont. a bit too far from kephart to pecks.

[tim.hiker]

wow there are so many great ones....a couple weekends ago I hit the classic Big Creek, Gunter Fork, Balsam Mtn, Sterling Ridge, Baxter Creek route.



A really great long weekend loop (well not an exact loop) is to park near Cades Cove loop road entrance (or general area), take Anthony creek / Bote/ AT to Jenkins Ridge, then down to Pickens Gap and pick up the old abandoned Pinnacle Creek trail (one of the few unmaintained trails that has trail head signs reading "unmaintained trail") and take that to Eagle Creek, back up to Spence and back down Bote. Many potentially tough crossings, so warm weather is better, multiple camping options on that route

just about any of the loops you can pick off the map up to the AT back down can be really enjoyable depending on what you're after. I have never been on Jenkins trail but I did watch a video and it looked the trail was in very bad shape is this so ? Thanks

[The Splitter]

Last year we base camped at Big Creek and then the next morning took Big Creek to 37, then swallow fork to Mt. Sterling ridge ( part of Benton McKay ), camped at 38 on Mt. Mt Sterling and then took Baxter Creek back to Big Creek campground.

This was a really enjoyable loop and if I get time later this year I want to make a larger loop out of the same trails that includes Mt. Cammerer. I haven't spent too much time in the smokies so every time I go up I always do loops to make the logistics easy but either later this year or next I'd like to do a thru hike somewhere.


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[blue indian]

Mt. Sterling/Mt. Cammerer
There are a few different ways to approach this loop and plenty of campsites/shelters to make it as many or as few nights as you like. Great chance to stay up high for a few days since most of this loop is on ridgelines. Great views from the Mt. Sterling fire tower at campsite 38 and from the firetower on top of Mt. Cammerer. The views from Balsam Mtn and the AT are good too, especially if you go in late fall or early spring.

Start at Big Creek
Day 1 - Baxter Creek to campsite 38
Day 2 - Mt. Sterling Ridge, Balsam Mtn to Tricorner Knob Shelter
Day 3 - AT to Cosby Knob Shelter
Day 4 - AT, Mt. Cammerer, Chestnut Branch back to Big Creek

You could make this loop shorter by just hiking out from Big Creek on the Big Creek Trail, stay at 37, then go up to the AT via Low Gap and return to Big creek via the AT, Mt. Cammerer, and Chestnut Branch.

You could make this loop longer by adding a visit down into Cataloochee valley to look for Elk and visit some of the historic buildings on the Little Cataloochee trail.

I love this area of the park.




Ive Never been to this side of the park. Looks like lots of good options! Thanks for the suggestions

[blue indian]

wow there are so many great ones....a couple weekends ago I hit the classic Big Creek, Gunter Fork, Balsam Mtn, Sterling Ridge, Baxter Creek route.



A really great long weekend loop (well not an exact loop) is to park near Cades Cove loop road entrance (or general area), take Anthony creek / Bote/ AT to Jenkins Ridge, then down to Pickens Gap and pick up the old abandoned Pinnacle Creek trail (one of the few unmaintained trails that has trail head signs reading "unmaintained trail") and take that to Eagle Creek, back up to Spence and back down Bote. Many potentially tough crossings, so warm weather is better, multiple camping options on that route

just about any of the loops you can pick off the map up to the AT back down can be really enjoyable depending on what you're after.



Which campsites did you stay at on the Big Creek loop?

[blue indian]

Last year we base camped at Big Creek and then the next morning took Big Creek to 37, then swallow fork to Mt. Sterling ridge ( part of Benton McKay ), camped at 38 on Mt. Mt Sterling and then took Baxter Creek back to Big Creek campground.

This was a really enjoyable loop and if I get time later this year I want to make a larger loop out of the same trails that includes Mt. Cammerer. I haven't spent too much time in the smokies so every time I go up I always do loops to make the logistics easy but either later this year or next I'd like to do a thru hike somewhere.


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This looks like a nice loop. Are their views on Mt. Sterling?

[blue indian]

I guess I should mention that I am NOT a shelter person and would only use the AT as a connector trail/ for the views.

I was looking at this loop as well...any comments?

day 1: Noland creek to cs#64
day 2: Spring house branch to Forney Ridge trail to Clingmans Dome. After visiting the dome take Forney Creek trail down to cs#68 or 69
day 3: cs#68 or 69 back to Spring house branch (or white oak branch) back to the car.

THe only hang up I can see is that the last day would be really long. What do yall think?

[HooKooDooKu]

This looks like a nice loop. Are their views on Mt. Sterling?
If you're brave enough to climb the 60' fire tower... yes.

Because this tower gets fewer visitors than Shuckstack (just off the AT about 4 miles north of Fontana), the wood and platform are in much better shape.

[HooKooDooKu]

I guess I should mention that I am NOT a shelter person and would only use the AT as a connector trail/ for the views.

I was looking at this loop as well...any comments?

day 1: Noland creek to cs#64
day 2: Spring house branch to Forney Ridge trail to Clingmans Dome. After visiting the dome take Forney Creek trail down to cs#68 or 69
day 3: cs#68 or 69 back to Spring house branch (or white oak branch) back to the car.

THe only hang up I can see is that the last day would be really long. What do yall think?
If you're worried about a long last day... my first comments are:
1. Don't return via Spring house branch. That's a 4 mile 1,700' climb. Do Whiteoak and the tunnel instead.
2. Since you'll get to see some views from Andrews Bald, skip Clingman's Dome. Go strait from Andrews Bald to Forney Creek. You will save 3 miles and a 900' climb. You can always drive to Clingman's Dome parking lot at a later time.

I did a similar loop last year with kids...
Start at Clingman's Dome Parking Lot. Hike down Forney Ridge and Springhouse Branch to CS64.
Next day, back-track Springhouse branch all the way over to Forney Creek to CS69.
Third day, continue up Forney Creek and return to Clingman's Dome parking lot.
Toss your pack in the car, then hike up to Clingman's Dome observation tower with just a water bottle.

About the only things different from your suggested loop is you miss Noland Creek between CS65 and CS64, and no option for hiking thru the tunnel at the end of "The Road to Nowhere".

[HooKooDooKu]

Which campsites did you stay at on the Big Creek loop?
My guess would be a single over-night stay at Laurel Gap shelter. That makes for two 11 mile (ish) days.

The two night alternative would be CS37 (mouse infested, so keep a close eye on your food bag even during the day) and CS38 (lots of bugs because of the beebalm? plants if you stay in the open field under the tower). But that would make for 5 / 12 / 6 mile days. A shorter alternative is Swallow Fork rather than Gunther Fork making for 5 / 6 / 6 mile days.

[Joey]

Lakeshore Trail to Eagle Creek BC 90-Eagle Creek to Spence Field then the AT to Fontana

Beech Gap Trail from Roundbottom to Hyatt Bald and McGhee Springs -Enloe Creek Trail to Hughes Ridge - AT Balsam Mtn Trail back to Roundbottom

[blue indian]

If you're brave enough to climb the 60' fire tower... yes.

Because this tower gets fewer visitors than Shuckstack (just off the AT about 4 miles north of Fontana), the wood and platform are in much better shape.



Ive been up to Shuckstack and that tower made me nervous. I kind of froze about half way up (it was really windy up there) but i eventually went all the way to the top. THe view was amazing

[blue indian]

If you're worried about a long last day... my first comments are:
1. Don't return via Spring house branch. That's a 4 mile 1,700' climb. Do Whiteoak and the tunnel instead.
2. Since you'll get to see some views from Andrews Bald, skip Clingman's Dome. Go strait from Andrews Bald to Forney Creek. You will save 3 miles and a 900' climb. You can always drive to Clingman's Dome parking lot at a later time.

I did a similar loop last year with kids...
Start at Clingman's Dome Parking Lot. Hike down Forney Ridge and Springhouse Branch to CS64.
Next day, back-track Springhouse branch all the way over to Forney Creek to CS69.
Third day, continue up Forney Creek and return to Clingman's Dome parking lot.
Toss your pack in the car, then hike up to Clingman's Dome observation tower with just a water bottle.

About the only things different from your suggested loop is you miss Noland Creek between CS65 and CS64, and no option for hiking thru the tunnel at the end of "The Road to Nowhere".



This looks good.

First off, I wanted to do Spring House Branch bc I havent hiked it yet, but I also havent hiked White Oak branch either. But I have done the tunnel, but have no problems walking it again. IT was cool.

Second, I heard there were no views from Andrews Bald so thats why I was wanting to hike up to Clingmans.\

Im taking someone whos never backpacked in the Smokies so Im trying to give her a little taste of everything the Smokies has to offer while hiking new trails for myself.

[TNhiker]

if you have the stamina to climb up to 68-----i found this to be a nice site (i also dug 69).....

68 has a waterfall at the upper campsite (there's a lower campsite as well).......

also, if you're in this area----i would take the little manway off of forney ridge trail and go see the old boiler.....

gives some historical factor to the area you'll be hiking in.........

[blue indian]

if you have the stamina to climb up to 68-----i found this to be a nice site (i also dug 69).....

68 has a waterfall at the upper campsite (there's a lower campsite as well).......

also, if you're in this area----i would take the little manway off of forney ridge trail and go see the old boiler.....

gives some historical factor to the area you'll be hiking in.........



I havent been that far up on forney before. I spllit off at jonas creek last time i was in that area. I will be sure to stop at one of those campsites though

[blue indian]

ok, so I might do this loop. What do yall think? And these mileages are approximations..

day 1: Big Creek trailhead to cs#37 (5.3 mi)
day 2: cs#37 to Gunter Fork -> Balsam Mnt -> Sterling Ridge to camp at cs#38 (11.5 mi)
day 3: cs#38 -> Baxter Creek -> Big Creek trailhead


Ive never been to this side of the Park. It looks rich in water features and a view at Mt. Sterling fire tower. And no real major climbs except for Baxter Creek which we should be going down..

[HooKooDooKu]

ok, so I might do this loop. What do yall think? And these mileages are approximations..

day 1: Big Creek trailhead to cs#37 (5.3 mi)
day 2: cs#37 to Gunter Fork -> Balsam Mnt -> Sterling Ridge to camp at cs#38 (11.5 mi)
day 3: cs#38 -> Baxter Creek -> Big Creek trailhead


Ive never been to this side of the Park. It looks rich in water features and a view at Mt. Sterling fire tower. And no real major climbs except for Baxter Creek which we should be going down..
What goes down must have gone up...
In this case, Gunter Fork is a 2,200' climb.
Of course that compares to the 4,000' decent of Baxter.
That means you've got a 1,800' climb spread over the rest of the trail.
Big Creek isn't flat land... 1,500' of climb from the trail head to Gunter Fork... but that's spread over 6 miles.

But over all, sounds like a great hike...
Day 1, travel to GSMNP & hike 5+ miles.
Day 2, hike 11.5 miles (primary climb) (jumps to over 12 miles if you don't haul water to CS38)
Day 3, hike 6 miles and travel home

Be prepared for lots of mud along Sterling Ridge. Because the trail is relatively flat, it doesn't drain the way hill-side trails do. As a result, there's lots of mud in certain places and at times you will not be able to avoid it.

Also note that the water source for CS38 will be over 1/3 of a mile PAST the campside (down hill). It's located on a side path that starts about 0.2 miles past the camp site.
When I was recently on Sterling Ridge, there was plenty of water for the couple of miles just past Laural Gap Shelter. But about 1/2 way to the intersection with Swallow Fork trail, you run out of mountain above you to provide seeps to pull water from.

Since most of Sterling Ridge is relatively level, I personally would tank up on the water soon after Laural Gap just so I don't have to hike the extra 2/3 mile (round trip) to get water at the camp site.

Oh, and I almost forgot... the mice at CS37. The only place I've ever stayed and wound up with a hole in my food bag. The bag was hung on the bear cables, but it was resting against my pack (the mice can climb the bear cables). Not sure if it was over night on the cables they went for my food bag or while it was on the ground while preparing meals and just didn't notice them. In any case, because of the popularity of this campsite (it's got room for 20), it has a mouse problem.

[blue indian]

Thanks for all the input HKDK. Apparently thats a popular part of the park because most of the sites are taken up almost all weekend. I guess I will keep checking to see if anything changes.

Or maybe I could reverse the loop at stay at CS#38 the first night.

[blue indian]

Thanks for all the input HKDK. Apparently thats a popular part of the park because most of the sites are taken up almost all weekend. I guess I will keep checking to see if anything changes.

Or maybe I could reverse the loop at stay at CS#38 the first night.



Or we could stay at cs#36, but thats primarily a horse camp. But cs#37 is booked up all weekend

[PatmanTN]

I have never been on Jenkins trail but I did watch a video and it looked the trail was in very bad shape is this so ? Thanks

Tim, sorry for the late reply I just saw this.... yes Jenkins is usually overgrown by summer unless you happen to catch it right after a maintenance. But I consider the solitude of that trail a worthwhile trade-off. Strangely I've met many experienced smokies hikers that don't care for Jenkins Ridge Trail but I really like it and have done it one direction or the other about 12 times now.

[PatmanTN]

Which campsites did you stay at on the Big Creek loop?

blue indian, I've done variations of that loop with many different camps. On the most recent trip i stayed on mt sterling and that made day 1 about 17 miles ( i needed to be home by a certain time on Sunday and so front loaded the miles) Here is video I did for another site of just that loop: https://youtu.be/7pvZ2FH-CZ8

Also if anyone wants to see a sample of the view from the top of the mt sterling firetower, check it out...

[PatmanTN]

whoops, also meant to tell tim that on the loop we're discussing you could camp at laurel shelter to make the mileage split more equitable

[HooKooDooKu]

Or we could stay at cs#36, but thats primarily a horse camp. But cs#37 is booked up all weekend
CS38 is usually the problem site trying to get a reservation on that loop. CS37 usually isn't that difficult because it has that capacity of 20.

When and how many people are you looking at? I see where CS37 is only full for next Friday and Saturday, then again the following Thursday and Friday. Otherwise it looks wide open. You can stay at CS36, it's pretty wide open except for the 25th.

[blue indian]

CS38 is usually the problem site trying to get a reservation on that loop. CS37 usually isn't that difficult because it has that capacity of 20.

When and how many people are you looking at? I see where CS37 is only full for next Friday and Saturday, then again the following Thursday and Friday. Otherwise it looks wide open. You can stay at CS36, it's pretty wide open except for the 25th.



Me and one other are looking to get out the weekend of the 24th.

Another option I am considering is extending the trip another night and staying at Laurel Gap shelter on Saturday.

If we stay at Laurel Gap shelter, are we required to sleep inside the shelter like on the AT?

[HooKooDooKu]

If we stay at Laurel Gap shelter, are we required to sleep inside the shelter like on the AT?
Yes... and since there's no thru hikers at Laurel Gap, there isn't even an applicable "over-flow" rule to allow tents/hammocks at the shelter.

[PatmanTN]

Been in a hurry lately and didn't read the whole thread earlier ....I see the questions I answered were much more fully replied to by HooKooDooKu. lol, well done!

Hey what does HooKooDooKu mean anyway? I run onto folks from Birmingham pretty often in these parts...I wonder if we've met?

[HooKooDooKu]

Been in a hurry lately and didn't read the whole thread earlier ....I see the questions I answered were much more fully replied to by HooKooDooKu. lol, well done!

Hey what does HooKooDooKu mean anyway? I run onto folks from Birmingham pretty often in these parts...I wonder if we've met?
It's a combination of HooKooEKoo (model name of my Garry Fisher Mountain Bike) and Count Dooku (before I realized he was that much in league with the Emperor). The ID has been unique on all the Internet (things like Huluduku are the only thing that has come close).

As for meeting, keep in mind that the greater Birmingham area has well over a million people.

[greentick]

Great thread, thanks to all contributors! Did the Big Creek - Mt Sterling/CS38 - CS37 - Big Creek loop with my then 9 and 10yr old skinny minnys last fall ... despite the big day/night hike on day one (we didn't hit the trail til 3pm) they totally loved it.

[PatmanTN]

It's a combination of HooKooEKoo (model name of my Garry Fisher Mountain Bike) and Count Dooku (before I realized he was that much in league with the Emperor). The ID has been unique on all the Internet (things like Huluduku are the only thing that has come close).


ah, neato on the handle, thanks

"As for meeting, keep in mind that the greater Birmingham area has well over a million people"

as does the greater Knoxville area, and yet I've still met over a dozen people from Birmingham right in my backyard , and some over and over.
True story, I met one fellow on the AT about five years ago and with no planning, proceeded to run into him six or seven consecutive times in areas all over the map (Smokies, Roan Highlands, Citico, Joyce Kilmer) and on some very remote trails...so you never know...

[blue indian]

So Im pretty set on doing the Big Creek loop. However we were really wanting to spend 3 nights and 4 days on the trail. So to make this happen (and not camp in the same spot for 2 nights) I was looking to extend the trip. The only option I see of doing this is to go onto Laurel Gap or CS#39 for night two. Since I have no desire to stay in a shelter, it looks like CS#39 might be my only option for making a 3 night loop out of Big Creek.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Can anyone chime in about CS#39? It looks like CS#39 is close to the road coming into Cataloochee. Do you think it gets a lot of attention from non backpackers?

[PatmanTN]

So Im pretty set on doing the Big Creek loop. However we were really wanting to spend 3 nights and 4 days on the trail. So to make this happen (and not camp in the same spot for 2 nights) I was looking to extend the trip. The only option I see of doing this is to go onto Laurel Gap or CS#39 for night two. Since I have no desire to stay in a shelter, it looks like CS#39 might be my only option for making a 3 night loop out of Big Creek.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Can anyone chime in about CS#39? It looks like CS#39 is close to the road coming into Cataloochee. Do you think it gets a lot of attention from non backpackers?

39 is close to the access road and the upper portion is a horse camp, however it's still a nice big campsite where folk can spread out. very popular for fly fishing this time of year and the access road itself is somewhat remote as it has to be accessed from cove creek or the gravel sterling road

if you like ruins and historical sites , adding Little Cataloochee and Long Bunk to the route is a fine idea (I like walking those with the Brown Book pages in hand)

so starting at big creek, night 1 at 37 night 2 at 39 and night three at 38?

[madgoat]

Blue Indian, that is an excellent loop. A little bit of everything. If it would work out with reservations, I would consider reversing the loop so your last night is on top of Sterling.... but that is just my opinion since I like to end my trips with a view. Its neat to be up on Sterling on a clear night and be able to look out to your east and see the distant lights from the local towns.

Regarding the mice at #37... Many years ago we got our food bags down in the morning after spending the night there. We found a hole in the side of our food bag and noticed that our trail mix bag was very light. A little bit later as we were breaking camp, a fellow came over from a different group and asked if we had trail mix in our food bag, and then proceeded to return some of our trail mix to us. Turns out the mouse spent the night transferring our trail mix from our food bag into the den he was making for himself in this fellow's backpack that was also hung on the bear bag lines.

[madgoat]

HKDK,

I'm going to be in your neck of the woods next weekend for the IndyCar race at Barber Motorsports Park. So, while I am in town.... where should I eat?

[HooKooDooKu]

So Im pretty set on doing the Big Creek loop. However we were really wanting to spend 3 nights and 4 days on the trail. So to make this happen (and not camp in the same spot for 2 nights) I was looking to extend the trip. The only option I see of doing this is to go onto Laurel Gap or CS#39 for night two. Since I have no desire to stay in a shelter, it looks like CS#39 might be my only option for making a 3 night loop out of Big Creek.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Can anyone chime in about CS#39? It looks like CS#39 is close to the road coming into Cataloochee. Do you think it gets a lot of attention from non backpackers?
CS#39 is far enough from Cataloochee that you're not going to see many day-trippers in the area. Like PatmanTN says, it's pretty large and spread out. But there isn't a flat spot in the whole camp. If you stay in the upper right side of the camp, you can get water from a side feeder creek rather than having to walk to the bottom of the hill to get water.

An alternate loop (not saying better or worse, just an alternate to consider) is to camp at CS#35, CS#37, CS#38. It's only a 0.6 mile road walk to connect Baxter Creek with Chestnut Branch. You also have the option to park at the ranger station near Chestnut Branch.

[HooKooDooKu]

HKDK,

I'm going to be in your neck of the woods next weekend for the IndyCar race at Barber Motorsports Park. So, while I am in town.... where should I eat?
Big enough town that you'll find all the basics: Outback, Olive Garden, etc.
If you want a little more local flair, being in the south there are several BBQ places. Everyone has their favorites. Mine is Dreamland "on the south side". It's related to the well known Dreamland located in Tuscaloosa (I think the Birmingham location might have been started by the daughter of the owner of the Tuscaloosa location). Where as the Tuscaloosa location was known for only having ribs, bread, and chips... the Birmingham location has a much larger menu that has expanded over time.

[madgoat]

Mmmmm.... BBQ. Dreamland it is.

[blue indian]

39 is close to the access road and the upper portion is a horse camp, however it's still a nice big campsite where folk can spread out. very popular for fly fishing this time of year and the access road itself is somewhat remote as it has to be accessed from cove creek or the gravel sterling road

if you like ruins and historical sites , adding Little Cataloochee and Long Bunk to the route is a fine idea (I like walking those with the Brown Book pages in hand)

so starting at big creek, night 1 at 37 night 2 at 39 and night three at 38?



Thanks for the insight on CS#39.

I would be using Little Cataloochee and Long Bunk trails to reach CS#38. I photo copy the trail descriptions out of the brown book to bring with me.

Yes, night 1 36 or 37 (looking like it has to been 36 has 37 is booked for the weekend), night 2 would be 39, and night 3 would be 38

[blue indian]

Blue Indian, that is an excellent loop. A little bit of everything. If it would work out with reservations, I would consider reversing the loop so your last night is on top of Sterling.... but that is just my opinion since I like to end my trips with a view. Its neat to be up on Sterling on a clear night and be able to look out to your east and see the distant lights from the local towns.

Regarding the mice at #37... Many years ago we got our food bags down in the morning after spending the night there. We found a hole in the side of our food bag and noticed that our trail mix bag was very light. A little bit later as we were breaking camp, a fellow came over from a different group and asked if we had trail mix in our food bag, and then proceeded to return some of our trail mix to us. Turns out the mouse spent the night transferring our trail mix from our food bag into the den he was making for himself in this fellow's backpack that was also hung on the bear bag lines.



I too would prefer to end the trip with our last night on Mt. Sterling at CS#38 but I might have to reverse the loop because the other camps are booked up for the weekend. Unless I do CS#36 instead of 37, but it is a horse camp...

[blue indian]

CS#39 is far enough from Cataloochee that you're not going to see many day-trippers in the area. Like PatmanTN says, it's pretty large and spread out. But there isn't a flat spot in the whole camp. If you stay in the upper right side of the camp, you can get water from a side feeder creek rather than having to walk to the bottom of the hill to get water.

An alternate loop (not saying better or worse, just an alternate to consider) is to camp at CS#35, CS#37, CS#38. It's only a 0.6 mile road walk to connect Baxter Creek with Chestnut Branch. You also have the option to park at the ranger station near Chestnut Branch.




I looked at doing that option instead, the only problem is day one would be close to an 8 mile day and we will be getting a late start because of work and I doubt we would have enough time to make it to CS#35 in time..

[The Splitter]

ok, so I might do this loop. What do yall think? And these mileages are approximations..

day 1: Big Creek trailhead to cs#37 (5.3 mi)
day 2: cs#37 to Gunter Fork -> Balsam Mnt -> Sterling Ridge to camp at cs#38 (11.5 mi)
day 3: cs#38 -> Baxter Creek -> Big Creek trailhead


Ive never been to this side of the Park. It looks rich in water features and a view at Mt. Sterling fire tower. And no real major climbs except for Baxter Creek which we should be going down..

I did a similar Loop last year. You may want to make your first day a little longer. That 5 miles from Big Creek Trailhead to 37 goes by fast. The climb is very gradual and easy. Very nice campsite right next to the water though. Lots of water in the area. I would highly recommend bringing something like a Platy Bladder or Camel Back as the climb up Mt. Sterling is definitely a bit challenging and the only water source is about 1/3 of s mile down the other side of the mountain, which is not a trip you want to be making multiple times after you've already climbed it. I now carry a 6 liter Platy Bladder for this exact reason. The view from Mt. Sterling is nothing short of breathtaking though, especially if you climb the fire tower.


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[blue indian]

I did a similar Loop last year. You may want to make your first day a little longer. That 5 miles from Big Creek Trailhead to 37 goes by fast. The climb is very gradual and easy. Very nice campsite right next to the water though. Lots of water in the area. I would highly recommend bringing something like a Platy Bladder or Camel Back as the climb up Mt. Sterling is definitely a bit challenging and the only water source is about 1/3 of s mile down the other side of the mountain, which is not a trip you want to be making multiple times after you've already climbed it. I now carry a 6 liter Platy Bladder for this exact reason. The view from Mt. Sterling is nothing short of breathtaking though, especially if you climb the fire tower.
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The main reason I was wanting to do the loop in this direction is because we will be getting a late start on Friday and I expect to be getting to the trailhead at around 5 pm...

[blue indian]

therefore, I was looking for a loop that was 3 nights with a campsite a couple miles from a trailhead, a view at some point, and some stream walkin.

The Big Creek loop fits all those needs, except the seclusion aspect...Looks like it will be a full house on Friday

[HooKooDooKu]

therefore, I was looking for a loop that was 3 nights with a campsite a couple miles from a trailhead, a view at some point, and some stream walkin.
So here's an alternative if you can handle the distances and elevation changes:
Day 1: Park at Twenty Mile Ranger Station and hike to CS93 (1.8mi).
Day 2: Hike Twenty Mile Trail to the AT (side trip to Shuckstack Fire Tower) then down Lost Cove, then up Eagle Creek to CS97 (11.5mi).
Day 3: Top out of Eagle Creek turn left on the AT hike to Mollies Ridge Shelter (10.2mi).
Day 4: Hike down AT and Twenty Mile Trail to return to your car (optional 2nd side trip to Shuckstack Fire Tower) (11.1mi).

If you think you're a little stronger than that... there's a couple of ways to expand the loop to Gregory Bald and Wolf Ridge. But that would likely require a stay at either CS13 and/or Spence Field. Neither of those is going to give you much seclusion.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've got experience hiking Eagle Creek... but here's another loop I can find that might meet the criteria of a short 1st day, three nights, views and creek.
Day 1. From Elkmont, hike to CS27.
Day 2. Use Miry Ridge to the AT, turn left and hike to either Silers Bald or Double Spring.
Day 3. Hike to either CS30 via Goshen Prong OR CS24 via AT/Sugarland Mtn/Rough Creek.
Day 4. Hike back to Elkmont.

And yet another idea (mainly coming from looking for camp sites near trail heads):
Day 1. Park at Cosby Campground and hike to CS35 (2.0mi).
Day 2. Lower Mt Cammerer to AT upto side trail to Mt Cammerer Fire lookout on to Cosby Knob (10.8mi).
Day 3. CS29 via Low Gap/Camel Gap/AT/Snake Den Maddron Bald (12.5mi vs. 5.5 mi direct path).
or: CS29 after attempting an off-trail summit of Mt. Guyot (8.5mi)
Day 4. Maddron Bald/Gabes Mtn to return to Cosby (11.5mi).

[blue indian]

Plenty of great suggestions from HKDK! Thanks!

[blue indian]

Question about weather from you Park frequenters,

if weather.com is telling me there is 90% rain in the park one day, is there anyway that I can infer whether that means all day or just scattered showers? I know the weather changes frequently and quickly in the park but I would like to know if I should be expecting an all day rain or just here and there..

[HooKooDooKu]

Question about weather from you Park frequenters,

if weather.com is telling me there is 90% rain in the park one day, is there anyway that I can infer whether that means all day or just scattered showers? I know the weather changes frequently and quickly in the park but I would like to know if I should be expecting an all day rain or just here and there..
So you've been watching the forecast for this weekend too...

Seems like if the forecast calls for 30% chance of rain, I get rained on 30% of the day.

What I like to look at is the grid that Intellicast creates: http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Weather.aspx?location=USTN0209
They show an hour-by-hour forecast... some hours call for only 60% chance of rain, while other hours call for an 80% chance of rain. For the last several days they have been calling for about 1/2" of rainfall for the day (+/-).
The main thing I see for this weekend is that the percentages are pretty high through out the day on Saturday, and while the exact details keep changing from hour to hour, IMHO the indications are that if you go out Saturday you WILL get wet.
Sunday looks a little bit more iffy because a 45% chance is the highest percentage in any given hour. You might get lucky, you might not.

[blue indian]

So you've been watching the forecast for this weekend too...

Seems like if the forecast calls for 30% chance of rain, I get rained on 30% of the day.

What I like to look at is the grid that Intellicast creates: http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Weather.aspx?location=USTN0209
They show an hour-by-hour forecast... some hours call for only 60% chance of rain, while other hours call for an 80% chance of rain. For the last several days they have been calling for about 1/2" of rainfall for the day (+/-).
The main thing I see for this weekend is that the percentages are pretty high through out the day on Saturday, and while the exact details keep changing from hour to hour, IMHO the indications are that if you go out Saturday you WILL get wet.
Sunday looks a little bit more iffy because a 45% chance is the highest percentage in any given hour. You might get lucky, you might not.



I expect to get wet in the Smokies everytime I go. Its a temperate rainforest afterall. But I do not like to spend my entire weekend wet. Hopefully we get lucky...

Thanks for the link!

[HooKooDooKu]

I expect to get wet in the Smokies everytime I go. Its a temperate rainforest afterall. But I do not like to spend my entire weekend wet. Hopefully we get lucky...
I ALWAYS hike the Smokies with my rain gear, and it's not unusual for the weather outlook to have low percent rain chances (20%-30%). On those trips, I usually get a little bit of a sprinkle for what seems like 20%-30% of the day. Many times the rain is light enough that with the trees catching it, I don't even have to bother to put on a rain coat if the rain isn't continuous.

But I don't like spending an entire day in the rain... you know, the kind of days where your feet get soaking wet even though you're wearing waterproof boots. I'd rather wait for another weekend when the forecast doesn't look so dreary. But lately, almost every free weekend that comes along seems to have a dreary forecast like this weekend.

[madgoat]

......being in the south there are several BBQ places. Everyone has their favorites. Mine is Dreamland "on the south side".

I tried Full Moon, Jim n' Nick's, and Dreamland. All 3 were on recommendations from locals. The brisket and Jim n Nicks was fantastic. Wasn't really a fan of Full Moon. But by far the pulled pork and sauce at Dreamland were my favorite. The ribs at Dreamland were a bit too tough for my preference, but you could soak any meat in that sauce and make a 5 star meal. Thanks for the recommendation HKDK.

It was my first time in Birmingham and I enjoyed it immensely.

[blue indian]

Just got back from hiking this loop. Well sorta. We had to cut off about 5 miles but it was still a wonderful weekend. The weather was perfect, wild flowers were blooming..Thanks for everybodys help!

Highlights include:

- Midnight hole on Big Creek
- Lunch at Pretty Hallow Gap
- Sunset and Sunrise from Mt. Sterling firetower
- Wild flower blooms
- Black rat snake on Baxter Creek trail
- Big ole chimney on the tail end of Baxter Creek Trail
- Amazing weather

[The Splitter]

Just got back from doing Nooand Divide to 61, like Road Creek to Deep Creek to 59 and then Deep Creek to the campground. We also did Sunkota Ridge to 52 and Thomas Divide back down.

We did the hike to 52 on the first part of the trip and it would have been awesome if it hadn't rained on us all day and then rewarded us with more rain, high thirties temperatures and howling wind at the top.

Noland Divide is my favorite trail I've done so far, the views were incredible and 61 was a great site.


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[Ashepabst]

hey Splitter, were there a lot of big views on Noland Divide or just at Lonesome Pine Overlook?

[HooKooDooKu]

hey Splitter, were there a lot of big views on Noland Divide or just at Lonesome Pine Overlook?
When I hiked Noland Divide (at least the part above Noland Creek Trail), I don't recall any views except for a few minor things looking thru trees... pretty much typical of GSMNP hiking.

[full conditions]

Hands down Maddron Bald is my favorite loop in the park - maybe the universe. In the past, I've always parked at Cosby CG and headed out on the Gabes mountain trail and spend the first night at CS 34 (usually a friday night after work so short mileage). Lots of old growth forest and beautiful streams along the way. Second day is up the Maddron Bald Trail to CS 29. Magnificent old growth forest at Horace Albright grove; heath balds, and a hint of spruce-fir forest. Last day is down snake den ridge - wonderful spruce fir forests giving way to northern hardwoods down to oak hickory-forest near the bottom at Cosby. Not much mileage but lots of ecological diversity.

[HooKooDooKu]

Hands down Maddron Bald is my favorite loop in the park - maybe the universe. In the past, I've always parked at Cosby CG and headed out on the Gabes mountain trail and spend the first night at CS 34 (usually a friday night after work so short mileage). Lots of old growth forest and beautiful streams along the way. Second day is up the Maddron Bald Trail to CS 29. Magnificent old growth forest at Horace Albright grove; heath balds, and a hint of spruce-fir forest. Last day is down snake den ridge - wonderful spruce fir forests giving way to northern hardwoods down to oak hickory-forest near the bottom at Cosby. Not much mileage but lots of ecological diversity.
Have you hiked Albright grove recently?
I hiked it in March of 2014 and the place looked pitiful to me. I'm now sure which tree species it is, but I've noticed over that starting about 5 to 7 years ago, GSMNP is loosing a bunch of their old growth trees... and many of the giants in Albright grove are dead or dying now.

[TNhiker]

When I hiked Noland Divide (at least the part above Noland Creek Trail), I don't recall any views except for a few minor things looking thru trees... pretty much typical of GSMNP hiking.


thats what I recall as well.....depending upon leaves in trees---one could just get a glance or two looking back towards clingmans.....nothing wide open though til ha hit the overlook ridge area...

[TNhiker]

Have you hiked Albright grove recently?
I hiked it in March of 2014 and the place looked pitiful to me. I'm now sure which tree species it is, but I've noticed over that starting about 5 to 7 years ago, GSMNP is loosing a bunch of their old growth trees... and many of the giants in Albright grove are dead or dying now.




I believe that that area got hit pretty bad with the blight or the alephids...

years ago, I took a trip with some Rangers that were spraying the lower part of the trail (up til the rocks blocking trail)

[full conditions]

Have you hiked Albright grove recently?
I hiked it in March of 2014 and the place looked pitiful to me. I'm now sure which tree species it is, but I've noticed over that starting about 5 to 7 years ago, GSMNP is loosing a bunch of their old growth trees... and many of the giants in Albright grove are dead or dying now.
Its been 15 years or so - I should have known. Our hemlocks are mostly in ruins now. The forest on boogerman loop is too depressing to contemplate.

[The Splitter]

hey Splitter, were there a lot of big views on Noland Divide or just at Lonesome Pine Overlook?

There was a small stretch where there were no trees and you could see for miles. It didn't look like anywhere is been in the smokies, it almost looked like a scene from out west.


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[HooKooDooKu]

Its been 15 years or so - I should have known. Our hemlocks are mostly in ruins now. The forest on boogerman loop is too depressing to contemplate.
Sad to hear... Boogerman is still on my TODO list.

[TNshadetree]

Hands down Maddron Bald is my favorite loop in the park - maybe the universe. In the past, I've always parked at Cosby CG and headed out on the Gabes mountain trail and spend the first night at CS 34 (usually a friday night after work so short mileage). Lots of old growth forest and beautiful streams along the way. Second day is up the Maddron Bald Trail to CS 29. Magnificent old growth forest at Horace Albright grove; heath balds, and a hint of spruce-fir forest. Last day is down snake den ridge - wonderful spruce fir forests giving way to northern hardwoods down to oak hickory-forest near the bottom at Cosby. Not much mileage but lots of ecological diversity.

I've looked hard at this loop, but that climb from Gabes Mountain intersection to CS29 has cooled my enthusiam.

[TNshadetree]

Here's a 3 night loop I've been comtemplating. Super easy way to get a lot of time at high elevation. Should be nmice and cool this time of year.

Day 1) Park at Pin Oak Gap and head up Balsam Mnt trail and stay at Laural Gap shelter. 4 miles +1,067 el
Day 2) Mount Sterling Ridge trail to CS38. 6.2 miles -320, +672 el
Day 3) Backtrack on Sterling Ridge, then drop down Pretty Hollow Gap to CS39. 5.7 miles -2,802 el
Day 4) Palmer Creek Trail back to Pin Oak Gap. 4.1 miles +1,468 el

[HooKooDooKu]

I've looked hard at this loop, but that climb from Gabes Mountain intersection to CS29 has cooled my enthusiam.
If you're contemplating the climb up Palmer Creek (at the end of a 4 day hike no less), you should be fine with slightly longer (~25%) climb from Gabes Mountain to CS29.

I don't know why (because it's sloped and rocky), but I really like CS29.
But I wished I would have hike Albrite Grove Loop when I first hiked the Maddron Bald Loop about 15 years ago.
I hiked Albrite Grove Loop for the first time last year, and the huge-magnificent trees have been devastated by one of the latest invasive species. It was actually kind of sad to walk Albrite Grove Loop (but there is a by-pass trail).

[HooKooDooKu]

Here's a 3 night loop I've been comtemplating. Super easy way to get a lot of time at high elevation. Should be nmice and cool this time of year.

Day 1) Park at Pin Oak Gap and head up Balsam Mnt trail and stay at Laural Gap shelter. 4 miles +1,067 el
Day 2) Mount Sterling Ridge trail to CS38. 6.2 miles -320, +672 el
Day 3) Backtrack on Sterling Ridge, then drop down Pretty Hollow Gap to CS39. 5.7 miles -2,802 el
Day 4) Palmer Creek Trail back to Pin Oak Gap. 4.1 miles +1,468 el

I've sort-of done this loop over 2 nights going the other way. But I started in Cataloochee and spent the 1st night at CS39 and the 2nd night at Laural Gap (skipping CS38 at Mt Sterling... but I've camped there too).
A couple of notes:
* The water source for Mt Sterling is to hike about 0.2 mile down Baxter Creek and take a 0.15 side trail on the left. The alternate is to load up on a water source along Mt. Sterling Ridge and haul everything you need to camp. You will find many water sources along Mt. Sterling Ridge for about the 1st 3 miles. But starting about a mile before the intersection with Pretty Hollow Gap Trail and all the way to Mt. Sterling, the trail is dry... except for all the mud you will have to walk thru (Mt. Sterling Ridge Trail is one of the muddiest trails I've encountered in the park... due in part because it is so relatively level... rain water has nowhere to drain).
* It's a 0.7 mile walk along Balsam Mtn road between Palmer Creek and Balsam Mtn trails.
* The water source for Laural Gap is about 200 yards down the 'water' trail. You will drop down into a drainage that might not have much water. Step over that drainage and go another 100' or so to reach the main water source.

[TNshadetree]

If you're contemplating the climb up Palmer Creek (at the end of a 4 day hike no less), you should be fine with slightly longer (~25%) climb from Gabes Mountain to CS29.




What makes me worry is the Gabes Mtn adds insult to injury by climbing 200ft out of CS34 only to lose 800ft you have to gain back up Maddron Bald with 2,150ft to climb. Gives me bad memories of Long Hungry Ridge Trail. But then again that pig trail gained it's 2,000ft in only 2 1/2 miles.

[HooKooDooKu]

What makes me worry is the Gabes Mtn adds insult to injury by climbing 200ft out of CS34 only to lose 800ft you have to gain back up Maddron Bald with 2,150ft to climb.
At some point you have to come to the realization that the trail (what ever trail you might be thinking about) is what it is.
In the case of Maddron Bald Loop, it doesn't matter that the trail decends 800ft, the question is can you manage the 2,150 foot climb?

I sort of had to keep reminding myself of this simple fact (the trail is what it is) hiking DOWN Sugarland Mtn trail last weekend. For a hike that ended 4,000' lower than it started, I sure hiked UP hill a whole lot.