base weight definition

[ekeverette]

Im assuming base weight refers to everything except.... food/water. does the pack include base weight? trekking poles?

[SouthMark]

Base weight = pack plus everything in the pack except food, water, and fuel (consumables)
FSO (From Skin Out) weight = Base weight plus everything worn and carried in pockets, hands, etc. (includes hiking poles).

[MuddyWaters]

It is base pack wt, just commonly called base wt for short.
You dont include consumeables because they change over course of trip.
Many leave out items they should include, but usually bring.
Maps, fuel containers or empty cannister wt, ziplocks, etc. Its not uncommon for some to carry a lb or more of stuff they didnt count, just to kid theirself.

[BirdBrain]

I weigh everything in grams and take what other people say about their totals with a grain of salt. The only weight that matters is the weight total you would see if you stepped on a scale after the first step on the trail. That weight would be free from exaggerations and parsing.

[squeezebox]

Base wt. seems to mean whatever a person wants it to mean. There is no set definition.

[Grampie]

It's all made up. Folks like to boast about their pack weight. Your pack weight should be what it weighs when you hit the trail. Includeing water, food and fule. 20 years ago, before the go lite fad, almost everyone who did a thru-hike was carrying about 35 to 40 lbs and got to Maine. folks today think that if they can get their pack down to 25 lbs, or lighter, they will have no problem hiking to Maine. These hikers have much to learn.It's not what you carry on your back. It's what you carry in your head. Happy trails to all.

[Walkintom]

How I determine my base weight. I put everything in a spreadsheet. I weigh each item carefully using a postal scale.

Then when I'm all done and I actually put the items into my pack I pull out my empty water bladder, fuel canister and food bag, which should account for all of the things that aren't counted as base weight, and I weigh the pack. Inevitably this does not match my spreadsheet. I'm only dreadfully concerned when it comes out lighter than my spreadsheet. That's a real *** moment that usually involves a fatfinger extra digit OR an entire stuff sack not packed.

Then once I'm reasonably sure that I've sorted out the reasons for any major differences I promptly forget it. I don't carry my base weight. I carry my pack, including everything in it. I try to keep my pack at or under 30 pounds. Sometimes that means a little less water and refilling more often or 'gawd I must eat all of the summer sausage and cheese first, what punishment!'

[hikernutcasey]

Interesting thread. I mostly agree that the simplified version of base weight is everything minus consumables. However, it never once occurred to me that I shouldn't count my fuel. I have always just added the entire weight of a new isopro canister in with my base weight.

I agree with Walkintom though in that the bottom line as far as I'm concerned is what does the pack actually weigh when I strap it on and step on the trail? That varies too depending on how many days I'm out for, time of year etc. Through much trial and error, learning what I can do without and gear upgrades I am now around 25 or 26 pounds starting out with a liter of water and 3 or 4 days of food and I'm happy with that.

[Uriah]

Base wt. seems to mean whatever a person wants it to mean. There is no set definition.

And in any case, it's all weight added to the hiker's own mass, no matter how we care to define it. Call it what we will, it's there.

[Feral Bill]

I have about 5 lbs of clothes on right now, not counting my fleece. That's 50% of "ultralight" base weight. FSO is worth more than base weight (as a measure), if either really matters.

[saltysack]

I love it when an obese hiker spends $$$$$$ to shave a few oz.....easier to loss the lard than spend the $$$$. Makes no cents to me...most could drop 5lbs with a low carb diet in a week....


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[MuddyWaters]

Base weight has a pretty set definition.

It is for you to use, if you know your base wt, and the amt of consumeables you need for a trip, you know what your total pack wt will be.

It is a rough comparitive guide for the gear carried as well. If someone says their base is 6 lbs, i have a good idea of the type gear being used, and what they probably arent carrying.

Above about 10, this meaning is nonexistent. Too many variables.

The only people who think it is about bragging, are people with heavy packs.

For the most part, light wt is about comfort, and speed. People that have benefitted tend to be enthusiastic about helping others. Sometimes too much so.

[BirdBrain]

A base weight of 6 lbs? Take away my big 4 and I still have over 6 lbs of stuff. I woud love to see a complete 6 lb base weight list that would safely get you through the 1st state. Those of us calling bs on proclaimed ul totals have never seen a real base weight setup that approaches such numbers. I measure everything in grams. I also include every item that is in my base weight in my base weight total. I am at 19.5 lbs with a big 4 that could shave several lbs by spending a bit more than I am willing. My 19.5 lbs is a real number. 6 lbs is bs.

[MuddyWaters]

A base weight of 6 lbs? Take away my big 4 and I still have over 6 lbs of stuff. I woud love to see a complete 6 lb base weight list that would safely get you through the 1st state. Those of us calling bs on proclaimed ul totals have never seen a real base weight setup that approaches such numbers. I measure everything in grams. I also include every item that is in my base weight in my base weight total. I am at 19.5 lbs with a big 4 that could shave several lbs by spending a bit more than I am willing. My 19.5 lbs is a real number. 6 lbs is bs.

Nope.
I normally carry 6.5 to 7.5 lb myself. Lighter in warmer weather.
Im a wuss. I like bug netting, and inflatable pad, and ccf under legs.
I do "cheat" though, i keep my camera and map/guidebook page in pants pocket because i use them often.
Also id and money on me, in case something bad happens.

My wt includes everything, down to 0.04 oz rubber bands.

Full skin out, including everything clothes, poles, shoes and all is around ~11-12 lbs.

In winter, id have a few lbs more, depending.

When matt kirk set the unsupported speed record, he carried about 5.5 lb gear. 1/2 lb was stuff to document his hike, phone, charger, usb cable, etc.

Whats hard to believe?

My big 4:
Pack. 16.7 oz arcblast
Quilt. 15.7 oz EE
Shelter 14.8 oz with polycro groundsheet. hexamid twin
Sleep pad 7.6 oz short xlite

Big 4 =~3.5 lb.

[BirdBrain]

Do you have a stove? 1st aid? Rain coat? Filter? Repair items? Hygiene? TP?

If I strap my 9 oz cook/eat set to my trekking poles does that get it out of my base weight?

Moving on.

[egilbe]

Do you have a stove? 1st aid? Rain coat? Filter? Repair items? Hygiene? TP?

Moving on.
Thats all optional, you know? Beggars have a 0 pound base weight. It all depends on what you are willing to give up to hike light.

[saltysack]

Nope.
I normally carry 6.5 to 7.5 lb myself. Lighter in warmer weather.
Im a wuss. I like bug netting, and inflatable pad, and ccf under legs.
I do "cheat" though, i keep my camera and map/guidebook page in pants pocket because i use them often.
Also id and money on me, in case something bad happens.

My wt includes everything, down to 0.04 oz rubber bands.

Full skin out, including everything clothes, poles, shoes and all is around ~11-12 lbs.

In winter, id have a few lbs more, depending.

When matt kirk set the unsupported speed record, he carried about 5.5 lb gear. 1/2 lb was stuff to document his hike, phone, charger, usb cable, etc.

Whats hard to believe?

My big 4:
Pack. 16.7 oz arcblast
Quilt. 15.7 oz EE
Shelter 14.8 oz with polycro groundsheet. hexamid twin
Sleep pad 7.6 oz short xlite

Big 4 =~3.5 lb.

Muddy
I'd love to see your jmt thru gear list....maybe I can shave lil weight...I consider myself as a lt weight hiker...even though I'm 5'11" built like a spark plug @ 215lbs[emoji1]
My big 4...I don't own a scale...so it's not exact
Ula circuit w extras removed.....2lbs
Marmot helium 15 deg bag... 2lbs orJRB 45deg quilt... 1lb
LHG solong6....2lbs
Neoair large...1lb...would love to shorten but I'm chicken...



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[Starchild]

....

The only people who think it is about bragging, are people with heavy packs.

...

Pack weight = 11 lbs weight on trail, actual IRL weight, and I say base weight is just bragging rights. There is just to much opportunity to deceive oneself as to what one is actually carrying.

[MuddyWaters]

Do you have a stove? 1st aid? Rain coat? Filter? Repair items? Hygiene? TP?

If I strap my 9 oz cook/eat set to my trekking poles does that get it out of my base weight?

Moving on.

My stove, pot, etc weighs 1.95 oz for alcohol setup. About 3 oz for cannister. 4oz alcohol fuel bottle weighs 0.6 oz, can last me a week.
Yes, I carry rain gear is 9 with kilt, 10 oz with pants.
1 oz TP last me 2 weeks, repair items?? Just duct tape, needle, dental floss. Hygiene? baking soda and toothbrush, and 20 ml liquid soap dropper bottle is it. ~ 1 oz for all. Sometimes a 1/2 comb.


Muddy
I'd love to see your jmt thru gear list....maybe I can shave lil weight...I consider myself as a lt weight hiker...even though I'm 5'11" built like a spark plug @ 215lbs[emoji1]
My big 4...I don't own a scale...so it's not exact
Ula circuit w extras removed.....2lbs
Marmot helium 15 deg bag... 2lbs orJRB 45deg quilt... 1lb
LHG solong6....2lbs
Neoair large...1lb...would love to shorten but I'm chicken...



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I can PM it. I was at~ 9.5 lbs with the 2 lb Bearikade. weekender.

[BirdBrain]

My stove, pot, etc weighs 1.95 oz for alcohol setup.

I feel like I am debating myself and where I would like to be. I see a bunch of stuff that you are doing that I do as well. My comments were initially in the abstract. I did not intend to call out anyone specific. I know that I am failing miserably on my big 4, but feel I am doing okay on the rest.

My 9 oz cook and eat setup included a 7 gram stove and no stand. I use a homemade cone clone to support my grease pot. The pot itself weighs close to 2.5 oz. I cozy cook. How do you get a sub 2 oz cook setup? Do you have a cup? A spoon? A mini bic? A wind screen? A cozy?

Don't get me wrong. I am fully in favor of shaving grams. My 1st aid kit weighs 1 oz. I believe if I spent big bucks I could get down to 14 lbs or so.

I did not intent to go after you. I really meant to keep my comments in the abstract. I just see no chance of sub 10 for me. I also carry a 2.5 lb camera setup. Even with no camera, I don't have the knowledge or skills to get under 10lbs safely.

[MuddyWaters]

I feel like I am debating myself and where I would like to be. I see a bunch of stuff that you are doing that I do as well. My comments were initially in the abstract. I did not intend to call out anyone specific. I know that I am failing miserably on my big 4, but feel I am doing okay on the rest.

My 9 oz cook and eat setup included a 7 gram stove and no stand. I use a homemade cone clone to support my grease pot. The pot itself weighs close to 2.5 oz. I cozy cook. How do you get a sub 2 oz cook setup? Do you have a cup? A spoon? A mini bic? A wind screen? A cozy?

Don't get me wrong. I am fully in favor of shaving grams. My 1st aid kit weighs 1 oz. I believe if I spent big bucks I could get down to 14 lbs or so.

I did not intent to go after you. I really meant to keep my comments in the abstract. I just see no chance of sub 10 for me. I also carry a 2.5 lb camera setup. Even with no camera, I don't have the knowledge or skills to get under 10lbs safely.

No ones failing at anything.
Its all good.

Its about having fun.
People go about that differently. :)

The vast majority are perfectly happy with their gear, and their style of hiking. That is all that is important.

[BirdBrain]

No ones failing at anything.
Its all good.

Its about having fun.
People go about that differently. :)

The vast majority are perfectly happy with their gear, and their style of hiking. That is all that is important.

I remain curious how a cook set (pot, lid, stove, lighter, gripper, screen, cup, spoon, etc) can weigh less than 2 oz. I thought 9 was doing pretty good.

[MuddyWaters]

I remain curious how a cook set (pot, lid, stove, lighter, gripper, screen, cup, spoon, etc) can weigh less than 2 oz. I thought 9 was doing pretty good.

Zelph flat bottom foster pot w/ lid = 1.05 oz
Tealight cup (stove) = .07 oz
Wind screen = .45 oz
Pot support = .22 oz
Tin foil underneath = 0.1 oz

Use bandana to grip
Spoon is bamboo= 0.25 oz

Suluk46 used to sell a similar stove/pot kit = 1.6 oz wit a ti windscreen

Out of 3500+ cal per day or so, only 500-600 require hot water. Its not important enough to carry a heavy stove and pot to me.

[garlic08]

I remain curious how a cook set (pot, lid, stove, lighter, gripper, screen, cup, spoon, etc) can weigh less than 2 oz. I thought 9 was doing pretty good.

Who says you have to carry a cook set? What finally got me under the 10 pound threshold was going stoveless. I haven't carried a stove in the last 7000+ miles I've hiked (CDT, AT, AZT, PNT) and it works pretty well for me.

If you want to see lighter packs, get away from the AT and look at some CDT and PCT hikers. That's a sweeping generalization and certainly not universally true. But when you have a longer trail and a shorter season, pack weight really starts to matter.

And on the Western trails, it seems the term "base weight" is used more than it is on the AT. It's just a different culture.

[BirdBrain]

Zelph flat bottom foster pot w/ lid = 1.05 oz
Tealight cup (stove) = .07 oz
Wind screen = .45 oz
Pot support = .22 oz
Tin foil underneath = 0.1 oz

Use bandana to grip
Spoon is bamboo= 0.25 oz

Suluk46 used to sell a similar stove/pot kit = 1.6 oz wit a ti windscreen

Out of 3500+ cal per day or so, only 500-600 require hot water. Its not important enough to carry a heavy stove and pot to me.

You, sir, are a gram weenie. Bravo.

[Nodust]

I bought a cheap luggage scale for a scout trip we took a few months ago. Weighing the pack as you hit the trail made me realize the few little things I added as I packed made a difference in weight.

And thanks to ULers my pack has decreased by about 10 pounds from where I started out 3 years ago. I'll never be a real ultra light but I appreciate the ones that push to the limits. I have gotten some good ideas from them and much of it was cheap to do or make.

[Biggie Master]

I'm not sure it matters what your "base weight" is, or how you define it. Neither does it matter what your "big four" weight. When you start walking what matters is the TOTAL weight of your pack. I carry what I need and I'm sensible and safe (prepared) with what I bring. Like most here, I continue to look for ways to shed weight, including equipment upgrades from time to time... I just finished packing for a 42 miler this weekend, and my pack (with enough food for two people and 64 oz of water) came in at 22.23 lbs. That's light for some, and heavy for others -- but I'm the one who gets to carry it.

[MuddyWaters]

If you know your base wt is 10, you know for a 5 day trip with 1.5 lb food/day, your pack will weigh ~20 lbs with 1L water. You dont need a scale.
For a 10 day trip pack weight will be ~28 lbs.

This is the concept.
Its amazing some cant grasp it.

[garlic08]

If you know your base wt is 10, you know for a 5 day trip with 1.5 lb food/day, your pack will weigh ~20 lbs with 1L water. You dont need a scale.
For a 10 day trip pack weight will be ~28 lbs.

This is the concept.
Its amazing some cant grasp it.

Yeah, it is. I had an interesting meeting early on my AT hike when another hiker looked at my obviously small pack and asked how much it weighed. I said under ten pounds. His jaw dropped, then he realized I meant without food and water. So he asked how much with food and water? I asked back, tell me how much food and how much water you want to carry and I'll do the math for you. We just didn't understand each other. That's when I realized there's a different culture on the AT.

[Tuckahoe]

I think it is a pretty simple concept and certainly easy to grasp. I think one issue for many is just how much they under estimate the weight of items they are carrying. They'll use the listed weight for a food item while forgetting that there is the weight of the packaging, or confuse fluide ounce and ounce. They will not realize that that quart of water isnt really 32 ounces, but is 33 1/4 ounces, and in a 4 ounce bottle they are over 37 ounces. That's just 5 unaccounted ounces.

As I learned here its always the little stuff.

[LoneStranger]

No ones failing at anything.
Its all good.

Its about having fun.
People go about that differently. :)

The vast majority are perfectly happy with their gear, and their style of hiking. That is all that is important.

I wish more UL folks, and folks in general, took that attitude. There are so many people who want everyone to do things their way because they are "right".

My interest in cutting weight is primarily to further a goal of being able to carry more supplies and go longer without resupply. To that end I often use a large external frame pack which draws UL minded folks like moths to a flame telling me I need a tiny soft pack like they have and all my gear is too heavy. They don't see my gear or know what my goals on trail are, but they know I'm not doing what they are doing so it has to be "wrong."

The important thing should be that we're all out there, enjoying the trail together and doing it in our own way. If one person wants to live on goo from a tube and another wants to bake potatoes in the campfire there's no reason they can't both be "right".

[egilbe]

My Unaweep weighs 40 ozs. My Sea to Summit Sleeping pad weighs 20 ozs, the GF carries to the EE Accomplice so that is zero for me and I carry the tarp and bug nets which with guylines is 34oz. I carry the titanium cookset with a cat can stove and alcohol and aluminum foil windscreen. Never weighed the cookset an pot, but its probably around 12 ozs. I'm happy my pack with 5 days of food weighs under 30 pounds :) I suppose when I finally do more than a long weekend hike on the AT, I may shed more stuff, but until then, its not killing me to carry luxury items. The GF looks like a gypsy with all the stuff she "might" need hanging off her pack, haha.

[swisscross]

I love it when an obese hiker spends $$$$$$ to shave a few oz.....easier to loss the lard than spend the $$$$. Makes no cents to me...most could drop 5lbs with a low carb diet in a week....


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So spend my money on heavy equipment because I need to lose some weight?
Big and small people benefit carrying less weight.
I don't obsess about the grams but my light weight gear has made a huge difference on my outdoor enjoyment.

[saltysack]

So spend my money on heavy equipment because I need to lose some weight?
Big and small people benefit carrying less weight.
I don't obsess about the grams but my light weight gear has made a huge difference on my outdoor enjoyment.

I agree totally...I was joking...I'm not a gram weenie but do buy light gear...
My base wt is around 10-11 lbs...


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[BirdBrain]

I still say people exaggerate. Those exaggerations are meaningless. They carry it whether they think they do or not and no one is carrying someone else's proclaimed weight. I know what I am carrying. I see no benefit to exaggerating to others or myself. I like to be prepared for what I am carrying. Parsing numbers does not help me carry the real weight. Getting light weight ideas and changing this does.

[1234]

base weight has no definition, it is just a way for folks to trick themselves into thinking they are lightweight. So I walk int Uncle Johnnies in Erwin Tn. I sit at the table for awhile and notice a scale above me. I pick up my pack and weight it just like I walked in with it. A few others follow suit, but one light weight guy proceeds to remove the extra shoes hanging from his pack and several other items hanging from his pack and then He weights it at 32 lbs, I wt mine at 36# same as the day I started. The LW person proceeds to tell me how to cut weight. ........

[MuddyWaters]

base weight has no definition, it is just a way for folks to trick themselves into thinking they are lightweight. So I walk int Uncle Johnnies in Erwin Tn. I sit at the table for awhile and notice a scale above me. I pick up my pack and weight it just like I walked in with it. A few others follow suit, but one light weight guy proceeds to remove the extra shoes hanging from his pack and several other items hanging from his pack and then He weights it at 32 lbs, I wt mine at 36# same as the day I started. The LW person proceeds to tell me how to cut weight. ........


One more time, base weight has NOTHING to do with being lightweight. It is the fixed portion of your pack wt that doesnt change during your trip.

You can have a really low baseweight and still have a heavy pack. Its called consumeables, ie food and water.

Likewise you can have a moderately high basewt and still have a light pack if you dont need to carry much food and water. A weekend hiker with 2 days food, and 1 l water can carry 25 lb of gear, and be happy with total pack wt.

Low base weights become advantageous for long distances between resupply, or large water carries, or faster speeds because they keep the total pack wt down. Carrying excessive food or water can add many lbs quickly though.

Especially with UL gear, it becomes very important because UL packs have weight carrying limitations beyond which they get uncomfortable.especially frameless packs. This is partly why UL hikers are concerned with it. If your pack gets uncomfortable at 22 lbs, you need to stay below that most of the time. IMO frameless is uncomfortable past 17.

Anyone on the AT south of monson with 32 lb pack with stuff dangling from it isnt lightweight, they are average for the AT.

What baseweight is, was the OPs question.

Which is better is a different question. It depends on person, situation, and immediate goals. Theres no best.

[BirdBrain]

This is what you do: Weigh yourself with everything as if you were walking on to the trail, food, water, poles and all. Strip down naked and weigh yourself again. Find the difference between those 2 numbers. That is what you are carrying. All other numbers are meaningless. If it is in your hands, on your body, in your clothes, or on your back, you are carrying it. Call it what you want. It is all weight lugged.

[MuddyWaters]

This is what you do: Weigh yourself with everything as if you were walking on to the trail, food, water, poles and all. Strip down naked and weigh yourself again. Find the difference between those 2 numbers. That is what you are carrying. All other numbers are meaningless. If it is in your hands, on your body, in your clothes, or on your back, you are carrying it. Call it what you want. It is all weight lugged.

True.
Its called Full Skin Out (fso).
Its why clothing choices, poles, etc are important too to some hikers.

One person can easily, especially with heavy boots, be wearing/carrying 5 lb more than someone else. But, it is also fairly fixed for long periods.

To control these aspects of carried wt, you have to monitor it, weigh everything individually, and replce items with lighter choices where possible.

[squeezebox]

Full skin out , full skin in, are the only accurate wts. The rest is to subject to telling lies

[rickb]

I pee more than average, that helps.

[BirdBrain]

I pee more than average, that helps.

Drink less and you will weigh less to begin with and you won't need to pee so much.

Just kidding folks. Drink lots if water.

As absurd as it sounds, if full skin out weight including consumables becomes the new " I'm lighter than you " debate, people will eat 3 days of food in an attempt to hide counted weight. Water weight would be an easy one to disguise.