View Full Version : 30-degree mummy bag really ok in 35 lows?
I have a 30-degree ALPS mummy bag which has served me well and an REI flash insulated sleeping pad with an r-value of 3.2. I am doing an overnight on the trail this weekend in NY where lows Saturday are supposed to be 35 degrees. I am bringing long underwear and can sleep in that and my long sleeve icebreaker merino base layer and socks and a beanie. Will this be enough? This is definitely the coldest temp I have slept in.
I will also be in a double-walled tent and next to my wife and hiking partner so I am assuming all these factors will keep the tent and me warm enough, but let me know if you think a liner is also needed as I'm hitting REI tonight for some last minute needs. I have also read having a hot drink before bed will help.
2000miler
04-22-2015, 12:18
If you're worried, bring a few of those air-activated hand warmers (Hot Hands, I think is the brand). Stick some in your sleeping bag and I bet you'll be feeling toasty in no time.
Rain Man
04-22-2015, 12:26
It would not be enough for me, but you are correct about having fuel in your belly will make a big difference. "Hot Hands" or similar could make a difference, yes.
Another good idea is to take a Nalgene brand hard bottle. Fill it with boiling water, put it in a sock or wrap in a t-shirt. It'll keep you amazingly warm.
Sleeping bag ratings are (to my knowledge) rated more for survival than for comfort.
and some whisky, right? right? :) thanks!
LoneStranger
04-22-2015, 12:31
So long as you have some good insulating layers, I like fleece for sleeping, you should be fine. I push well below ratings on my quilts by wearing insulation to bed, but it is easier to vent excess heat in a quilt.
Hand or toe warmers are a good idea in cold weather though. A bit of extra weight, but a great insurance policy...just in case.
Hangfire
04-22-2015, 12:39
We had a 14 degree night last year at standing Indian and I survived fine in a 32, with proper layering of course, and I'm a real wimp when it comes to cold. I think you will be fine especially in a tent and not in the shelter, not sure just how much heat you can hold in a tent but it's quite noticeable over an open walled shelter.
Studlintsean
04-22-2015, 12:50
As noted above, a lot depends on the person. A lot also depends on the bag. I would be prepared to use the hot nalgene, sleep in all your layers, and eat before bed. Worst case, do some situps in the middle of the night.
A better question is whether or not your wife will be warm, not you. If you are the one shivering, all will be better come morning.
Safety first!
❄️������
Seriously, all other things being equal woman get colder at night than men-- a fact which is reflected in those EIN ratings.
Walkintom
04-22-2015, 14:06
Just take 2 emergency blankets apiece. If you get cold, open them and use them.
Slo-go'en
04-22-2015, 14:11
I'd get the silk liner.
perdidochas
04-22-2015, 14:17
I have a 30-degree ALPS mummy bag which has served me well and an REI flash insulated sleeping pad with an r-value of 3.2. I am doing an overnight on the trail this weekend in NY where lows Saturday are supposed to be 35 degrees. I am bringing long underwear and can sleep in that and my long sleeve icebreaker merino base layer and socks and a beanie. Will this be enough? This is definitely the coldest temp I have slept in.
I will also be in a double-walled tent and next to my wife and hiking partner so I am assuming all these factors will keep the tent and me warm enough, but let me know if you think a liner is also needed as I'm hitting REI tonight for some last minute needs. I have also read having a hot drink before bed will help.
Depends on how it is rated 30 degrees. If it's just rated by company standards, it can be variable. There is a European sleeping bag standard: EN 13537. It has four ratings per bag:
Upper Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep without excessive perspiration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration). It is established with the hood and zippers open and with the arms outside of the bag.
Comfort — the temperature at which a standard woman can expect to sleep comfortably in a relaxed position.
Lower Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep for eight hours in a curled position without waking.
Extreme — the minimum temperature at which a standard woman can remain for six hours without risk of death from hypothermia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia) (though frostbite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite) is still possible).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537
imscotty
04-22-2015, 15:01
RickB nailed it. Wife comes first, I would be more worried about her comfort. Do the bags zip together? That might help.
In the end the answer depends on the person and the bag. There is no way of knowing until you try it. It is always worth testing your sleep system on cold Winter nights in your backyard where you can make an easy escape.
For myself, I can usually sleep with comfort right down to the bags rating. I can survive with discomfort about 10 degrees lower (with clothing). Any colder than that and I am either unhappy, or getting up in the middle of the night to start hiking. Beware, women usually sleep colder, so I would be mostly concerned about your wife.
FlyFishNut
04-22-2015, 21:17
I'd get the silk liner.
x 2
I used CoolMax liner and it made all the difference in a -12 night with snow and wind....
If you stay hydrated and have ample food in your belly, should be fine.
My experience, the really cold, uncomfortable levels are in the low 20's and below.
What I learned, "easier to stay warm than get warm". NEVER get cold, get into your sleeping bag, layer up, hat on, etc to remain warm and retain heat. A good hat is critical.
squeezebox
04-24-2015, 05:26
Read a bit about hypothermia, getting warm on your own ain't gonna happen. It takes hot water bottles or another person's body heat. Be careful about drinking hot liquids as the heat shift can throw you into shock. Again do some reading.
Be well, be safe.
Silk liner, Nalgene water trick (factor some extra fuel into your supply), some DRY clothing to sleep in, down booties add a LOT of comfort (highly recommended, socks restrict circulation - counterproductive), extra blue insulation pad will always help.
Go to bed BEFORE you get cold, eat before bed, have snack available for wee hours of the morning (when it is typically coldest), isometric exercises while in the bag can help warm you up if you do get cold.
MuddyWaters
04-25-2015, 10:50
Depends on person and bag.
I have one 30 F bag id call marginal for 30, one good to mid 20s. Any quality high end bag should be good for 35.
Double wall tent with anothet person, if its a 2p tent, will probably add 5-7F.
Id guess youd be fine.
I spent a number of cold nights in this area. I am a cold sleeper and a 35d bag just is not enough. I use my WM Alpinlite (+ overfill) up to 55-60 d nights.
well it decided to dip down to 30. We were cold, but layered up in base layers, warm socks, fleece and beanies and we were ok. amazing that it went that low with day temps in the area of 60. at least we could make a campfire, and the sunrise is amazing and worth it. great weekend on the trail!
bobgessner57
04-27-2015, 19:16
Glad you had a great trip. Sounds like perfect hiking weather. Now you know a bit more about the limits of your envelope with that gear. I sleep warm, my sons sleep hot, and my wife and daughter sleep cold and frozen. It is amazing the difference in comfortable outer wear the 5 of us wear for the same activity and the kind of sleeping gear needed for comfort, even in the house let alone on a camping trip. It is hard to generalize about the utility of a product for someone else. It just means we have a good excuse to get out more to explore what works best for us.
4eyedbuzzard
04-27-2015, 20:10
well it decided to dip down to 30. We were cold, but layered up in base layers, warm socks, fleece and beanies and we were ok. amazing that it went that low with day temps in the area of 60. at least we could make a campfire, and the sunrise is amazing and worth it. great weekend on the trail!Nice to hear you had a great trip!
And just an FYI on those EN ratings: The EN rating test methods assume that the test subject/dummy is wearing a long base layer, beanie type hat or balaclava, and using a 1" insulating pad. From experience, this can make a really big difference. I don't recall socks being mentioned in the reports I've read on the testing methodology, but FWIW, I wear a pair of socks as well. I've been comfortable but on the edge in my 35 deg WM Caribou down to 25 deg or so wearing a medium base layer, hat, socks, and such.
Just Bill
04-27-2015, 22:40
http://www.mammut.ch/images/Mammut_Sleep_well_pt1_E.pdf
I spent a number of cold nights in this area. I am a cold sleeper and a 35d bag just is not enough. I use my WM Alpinlite (+ overfill) up to 55-60 d nights.
Thanks for the upper limit numbers. As a new owner of a new WM Alpinlite (long-no overfill), I was concerned that it might be too warm above 40-ish degrees. Actually, your upper limit makes sense. In the winter, with the thermostat set to 60, I sleep snug under a very plump Hungarian (purchased in Budapest) goose down quilt. I reckon the Alpinlite will be a portable version of my quilt at home.
I think that I am going to really like this bag.
Linus, glad you had a good trip. Camping with 30 degree mornings is what I hope for and look forward to.
Wayne
yeah my pad is an REI flash insulated air pad with 3.2 R rating. Def a socks on a cold night guy. I also threw my Sawyer in the foot box area to keep it from freezing overnight, already lost one to freeze! back out there for the next section in 3 weeks, hopefully it will be a bit warmer this time!
it was definitely an experience, and i feel a lot more badass for having done a cold night like that. another bonus was that except for some boy scouts who had a day lead on us, it seems like no one else was out and we had the place to ourselves and full reign over the fire ring, privy and pick of best site. i would prefer a bit more like 40 degrees at night but glad to know i can roll with the more extreme temps!
Empty your bladder well before going to bed. Your body uses energy to keep the urine in your bladder warm, making you overall colder.
Empty your bladder well before going to bed. Your body uses energy to keep the urine in your bladder warm, making you overall colder.
Might also save you from a frigid 2-4am excursion to the bushes.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.