Seeking Ultralight Advice

[Thesandcruz]

I am new to the Ultralight Scene(by new I mean void of ANY ultralight gear) and could use some good advice. Due to knee injuries sustained in the Gulf, I NEED to go ultralight on my bid for completion of the AT in 2016. I'm no stranger to packing/camping but new to long distance. I hope to come in with a base weight of 10 lbs but am unsure if this is realistic or even safe for that matter, for a green distance hiker....Thoughts?

[MuddyWaters]

Easily doable.
Do you have $2000 - 2500 for gear?

Knees need to be in good shape to go 2000 miles. Light weight wont cure that.

The more $$$, the lighter weight while giving up less.

[fastfoxengineering]

10lb baseweight for the AT is simple. If you can drop some coin on gear you can easily meet that weight goal and hike in style.

What MW said.. the more money you throw at gear, the lighter it gets, and the less you give up.

Figure out your budget for gear and get back to us.. Honestly starting off with NO gear isn't a bad thing at all. You've come to the right place.

Zpacks is a great gear company.

Arc Blast Backpack
Duplex Tent
20* Sleeping Bag
Neo-Air Xlite Sleeping Pad

if only funds allowed.... I would buy that in a heartbeat.

Are you a ground dweller or hammock hanger?

[squeezebox]

My big 4 weighs 9 lbs, I could see dropping 3 maybe 4 lbs off that, maybe. But there's dry camp clothes 1st aide kit. foot care. boiling water. rain gear, cold weather gear. bug netting. phone, maps. I could lie to myself and carry my camera around my neck and not count it in pack wt.
I admit to carrying too many what-ifs and just in case stuff. But I expect a lot of that to shake out the 1st couple of weeks. better safe than sorry for now. I expect my skin-in wt to drop fairly quickly. I just can't imagine being below 15 lbs and being safe and comfortable.

[soulrebel]

I'd break the trail into two or three sections. Like SPringer to Harpers, then Harpers to home, then home to Katahdin. just to keep the wear and tear down on my body, maximize enjoyment, minimize pressure. Once you get your base gear under in the 10-15lb range without food and water, you'll find less isn't necessarily more. The biggest thing you can do is strengthen your joints and muscles before you start. So many people expect to get in shape doing the hike. It isn't the best idea. GL

[Lyle]

Go as light as possible, 10 lbs may be pushing it for someone new to long-distance. I would start off by planning to cut out all luxury items like books, big camera, etc. You can always add these things later if you feel confident.

Most folks carry too much food, especially at first - few of us suffer any real harm by being a bit hungry for a few days, so pay close attention to that.

Choose a reasonable start date so that you do not have to carry full-on winter gear.

With your bad knees, my primary advice to you would be PacerPoles. These unique trekking poles are excellent aids for down hill which is where the most wear and tear on knees takes place. The grips on PacerPoles allow them to be very comfortably used to ease yourself down the big step-downs that wreck havoc on our knees. Cannot recommend more highly. I have no affiliation with them, other than being a very satisfied user for about 9 years now. http://www.pacerpole.com/

Go slow at gathering gear, but keep in mind, there are MANY alternatives in all categories of gear that will work well for you. Don't succumb to gear paralysis. Perhaps, if you can, find one or two folks here or in person who are very lightweight hikers and enlist them as your mentors. Trying to separate the wheat from the chafe when reading the wide range of opinions found here on White Blaze can be paralyzing without guidance from a person or personal experience.

By the way, what is your typical hike experience? One week, Two? If so, then you pretty much know all you really need. A long distance hike, at least the physical aspects of it, are exactly the same as a section or shorter hike. The mental/emotional aspects are what differentiate a long distance hike, and that comes down to attitude.

Good luck. Blind men, old men and ladies, men on crutches, total newbies, grossly overweight hikers, have all made the hike or significant portions of it. You can too.

[HDLV]

I just started making the move over to UL. I suggest buying Mike Clelland's book "Ultralight Backpackin' Tips". Its all about getting into the philosophy.

[q-tip]

Last year I stepped over the line from ltwt (15 lbs. ) to UL (12 lbs) . Went to tarp, dropped camp shoes, alcohol stove, less clothes. Result, in four days in the Bear Mtn. Region I was cold, wet and not too happy. Three days of rain kept my feet wet constantly, 18 min. to boil water, tarp condensation and splash soaked the footbox of my bag. I decided it is just not worth the weight savings. At 14-16 lbs I have everything I need.

[Thesandcruz]

OK...let's see if I can answer all questions in one reply.... I am ground dwelling minimalist( bivy and bag but not ul). Have about 2500 to spend over the next year. I do have some gear but all heavy military issue type. Started 5 mile a day training hikes already( big concern is cold weather effects on joints) and I plan to start in mid to late Feb so I have plenty of time to take my time......

[Lyle]

Well, starting in late Feb. you will need more and heavier gear, for a much longer time. Add to that the days you will inevitably spend in town, waiting out storms, the shorter daylight hours, and you may not be much ahead of mid-March/early April start.

Are you open to starting out planning a straight through hike but resorting to a flip-flop if you find yourself short of time? If so, then you can start later, and still have PLENTY of time to complete the entire trail. This will avoid most of the coldest weather.

How are your knees handling the day hikes? Are you carrying any weight on these hikes?

I would just gradually expand what you are doing now, while making minimal purchases of gear. The more experience you have, the better your decisions will be about both gear and your plans.

[kevperro]

Actually... I think you can go Ultralight without breaking the bank. The biggest weight reductions are from leaving stuff behind, not necessarily spending big dollars on cuben.

Let's see if we can put together a hypothetical UL on the budget gear list:

* Pack - REI Flash 45: $80 34 ounces
* Tent - REI QD1 $219 - 38 ounces
* Sleeping Pad - Therm-a-rest Prolite $62 - 11 ounces
* Sleeping Bag - North Face Furnace 35 $169- 34 ounces
* Stove & Cook Pot - Snow Peak Gigapower + GSI Minimalist $80 10 ounces

You of course will need clothing and other knick-knacks but you don't have to go to REI to buy long underwear, shorts, and t-shirts. Go buy some generic cheap synthetic layers and Dri-Ducks rain gear and you will be fine. That list right there though was with little effort at one site and it is $610 & 8lbs which covers most of your major gear weight. You will have another 3lbs in clothing items and probably another 2lbs in misc crap.

[bigcranky]

As noted above, starting in February means a heavier pack. A 10 pound base is unrealistic. Most of the UL hikers with those base weights are good down to freezing, maybe not even. A Feb start means lows in the single digits - yes, in the South.

It is possible to have a very light pack and be both safe and comfortable. With enough experience, it's possible to get pretty light even in colder weather. There is just so much new gear out there that is light, functional, and sometimes not too expensive.

If you were willing to consider an alternate itinerary, you could start at the beginning of May in Harper's Ferry, head north to Katahdin, then flip south to HF and hike sobo to Springer. Lots of good reasons to do this, but let's start with the easier terrain for the first few weeks -- much easier on the knees. It also means a lighter pack almost the whole way - perfect weather through the mid-Atlantic, great summer weather in New England and Maine, and early fall in Virginia and further south.

I need to cut this short for now, but I'll make some more concrete suggestions over the weekend.

[K.Keck]

With stuff bought from Zpacks as well as some research I got my AT weight down to 7 lbs base weight, and that system works well for me. With the right planning and gear their so no reason you cannot get your base weight down to at least 8-9 lbs.

http://www.zpacks.com (http://www.zpacks.com)

[Malto]

First, do not take ANY gear that says US military. (I learned the hard way.)
Second, get out and hike. Nothing will teach you what you need more than doing it. Treat an overnighter as two day hikes with a bit of gear to sleep. (It may change your perspective a bit.)
Third, if you are at least a bit mechanically inclined then don't be afraid to make gear, especially Cuben. Start with easy stuff like stuff sacks then move up to a shelter. The more you do #2 (not the act in the woods.) the more you will have the insight into what you need.
Fourth, the cheapest way to shed weight is to not carry extra crap. That doesn't mean going without shelters and insulation. But many, many people carry way too much food and water. Not to be redundant but #2 will help this one as well.

Finally, I have an eight lb. base and have everything I need and little that I don't. I took me several years to get to that point but I have stayed with essentially the same gear and weight for the last four years.

Good luck in your prep and hike.

[garlic08]

What Malto said above. If you pack for a hiking trip, not a camping trip, the weight will fly out of the pack. The pack should only support the hiking. (Of course, you don't have to do it that way but that's the thinking that got me into the UL category).

Pack weight is way more about experience than about the gear. An inexperienced and/or ignorant hiker can carry 20 pounds of insulation into a rainstorm and it'll all be worthless (and weigh 30 pounds) by the second day, for instance.

The gear I took on my AT hike (8.5 pound pack) was good down to 15 degrees F and cost a total of $850, including an excellent Marmot Helium sleeping bag (look on Steepncheap.com for great sales) and a Tarptent Contrail shelter. Gossamer Gear packs often go on sale--I got mine for $80. Like Malto, it took several years to find what works for me. And what you pack is very personal--I would never take off on a hike with someone else's pack. Don't rely too much on others' gear lists.

[mlivin01]

when you talk about base weight...what is included: tent, pack and sleeping bag? or is it beyond the big three?

[Lyle]

Generally what folks mean by "base weight" is the weight of their pack and it's contents, without food, fuel or water. In other words, the non-consumables.

[life scout]

I use a quest outfitters G4 DIY pack modified slightly at 16oz. A TI Snow Peak pot and cat can wick alcohol stove 4oz. 32° down sleeping bag. Cuben fiber pack cover, bear bag, and stuff sacks. DIY bridge Hammock and tarp. The most expensive thing I have is my down puffy jacket. Base weight is 12lbs and room to drop more. It's only expensive if you let it be.

[Beave35]

At a 10lb baseweight you can be safe and enjoy your time on the AT Even more surprisingly you don't need to spend a fortune to get to ultralight status. I linked a lightweight gear I made at the bottom of my response. The gear list has a base weight of 12.75lbs. However, if you replaced the tent I have listed with a tarptent protrail (26oz/$209 with use of trekking poles), replaced the backpack with a GG Virga 2 (1lb 4oz/$110), and replaced the sleeping bag with an Enlightened Equipment 30 degree down quilt (17oz/$235) it would bring the baseweight down to 10lbs. With these changes the entire gear list would only cost about $750 (Ultralight doesn't have to be ultra expensive).

Lightweight gear list- http://lighterpack.com/r/50uokc/
Tarptent Protrail- http://www.tarptent.com/protrail.html
Enlightened Equipment Revelation- http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/revelation/
Granite Gear Virga 2-http://www.campsaver.com/virga-2-backpack

[Beave35]

Disregard my advice if you're planning to start in February though, that gear list is more for 3 season hiking.

[CoconutTree]

I had a knee injury that forced some serious weight reduction. I read Ray Jardine's book and that worked for me. I didn't follow his appoach completely, just too what worked for me. My 3 season base weigh is about 8 pounds right now. Swap in a warmer sleeping bag and some cold weather clothing, and I think 12 pounds base would be possible. I don't have any cuben fiber or titanium, but that will change eventually. That said pushing your the limits of pack weight during winter might result in a Darwin Award. If you want light, hiker the warmer months and if you don't make it 2190 miles that year, go back and finish later.

[Del Q]

I am 56, had knee surgery a few years ago and surgery on lower back last October 2014. Have been out with 52 lbs and 24 lbs, food and water included, no comparison. Cost more, yes, but this is my hobby!

The wear and tear on my body is a LOT LESS, when I pick up peoples' packs which are at 35+ they feel like lead weights to me.

5 months post surgery my friend and I hiked from Springer to Franklin in 8 1/2 days. Best daily average every.......in part due to a pack that was 24 lbs or so vs 32.

[Singto]

Don't forget the 6 Moon Designs Lunar Solo tent at 24 ounces (without 6 stakes and uses one trekking pole) for $245 factory seam sealed or $215 not seam sealed. It's my choice so far out of all the 1+ person lightweight tents available for a reasonable price. I personally don't consider the ZPacks tents reasonably priced.

[Connie]

I save on weight, without sacrifice in comfort, with a Hammock Gear Burrow 20 and a Cascade Designs XTherm XS.

I think the Six Moon Designs Deschutes tarp, for shelter, is a luxury camp excellent value

I use a Bug Baffler head net with a baseball cap or a visor. I have gloves. I have shortie stretch gaitors.

I wear long stretch bicycling tights and a long sleeves vented nylon fisherman shirt.

I like my Ti Goat Bug Bivy, that keep everything tucked in, with me, for the night.

I really don't need an interior mesh tent for bug crawlies or insects.

The ZPacks™ Bathtub Groundsheet / Tent Floor in twin-size with hood for a poncho, as well, if long-lasting wet weather is anticipated. I still think the LightHeart Gear Rain Hoodie is desireable for hiking in the brief rain storms we get in Montana.

[sbhikes]

I'd break the trail into two or three sections. Like SPringer to Harpers, then Harpers to home, then home to Katahdin.

Doing it this way you get three adventures for the price of one (well, not literally.) I did two sections for the PCT. So it was two big adventures.

Before my 2nd half of the PCT I went through all the things in my pack that survived the first half (you wouldn't believe how much crap I sent home in the first hundreds of miles, plus all the things I replaced with lighter stuff.) With what was left, I examined every individual item and asked myself how can I make this item lighter? Can I replace it? Can I modify it? Make it smaller? Can I make it dual use and eliminate something else? I managed to remove another 9lbs from my stuff this way.

I did stuff like replaced the lid on my MSR pot with that bendy aluminum. I made a pepsi can stove with one of those 6oz cans. I found tiny bottles and put my toiletries, bug spray etc in them instead of the larger ones they came in. (I'm talking like Visine-sized little tiny bottles.) I eliminated stuff sacks, extra clothing (ended up with not enough clothing actually because you need to wear something on laundry day). Used a trash bag for a pack cover instead of a real one (worked great, no punctures even in heavy brush). Stuff like that. The ounces and grams really added up. Then it was all too small for my pack so I got a way lighter pack.

I even did stupid stuff like hike through Washington without a rain jacket. Just an umbrella and rain chaps and a Houdini which isn't water resistant at all. You can't sit down in rain chaps and umbrellas don't work very well when you're being slapped in the face all day by wet bushes. I survived though. As soon as I bought a rain poncho it stopped raining. I now have a Z-packs cuben rain jacket and don't need to carry a wind breaker anymore and actually, with my hiking shirt and a pair of fleece sleeves as arm warmers, I really don't need a puffy jacket, either.

[pauly_j]

Footwear is the best place to cut weight if you have bad knees. That's speaking from experience.

[Parrott65]

I recently spent a lot of money to get lighter gear and I'm interested in what your base weights are for Winter versus 3 Season? The averages would help me know a relative goal to aim for.

[CarlZ993]

The Feb start will invariably cause your pack weight to go up some (additional clothing & winter-rated bag). As long are you're ok w/ that, continue w/ your planned start. As the weather warms up, your cold weather stuff is replaced w/ warmer weather stuff & you pack weight could easily get down at or near your target base weight (10 lbs).

Some ultralight equipment/clothing is expensive (titanium, cuben fiber, etc). Some is not (cat food stove, parkay tub as a bowl, Imusa 12 cm pot, etc). Given your start time of Feb, you might need a pack larger than the Zpack Blast pack. An ULA Circuit pack would probably be an appropriate size (I own both). A 15-deg down sleeping bag (quilt if you don't toss & turn @ night) would be a bare minimum. Probably need closer to a 0-deg bag/quilt in the beginning. Given your start, a Thermarest X-Therm sleeping pad would work (keep your warm while being very light). If I had the money, I'd splurge on the Zpacks Duplex 2 person tent (20 oz). Lightweight & appears to be much more storm proof than my Zpacks Hexamid Solo Plus. You could grab the Imusa 12 cm pot @ Walmart for a couple of bucks. Fashion your a tinfoil lid & you're set (or go for a titanium pot from Evernew or Snowpeak; I use the Evernew 0.9L pot & love it). A cat food stove or one of the derivatives (Zelph's Fancee Feast stove is what I used) would keep your stove weight to a minimum. With your early start, traction devices for your shoes - MicroSpikes - would be appropriate. It adds a pound or so on your pack weight. But, it will prevent falls & possible hike-ending injuries. Hiking poles help save your knees. Lots of good brands to choose from - Black Diamond, Leki, REI, etc.

FYI - this is a link to my equipment & resupply system I used on my 2013 AT hike. It worked for me. It wasn't as light as the target weights you are shooting for. But, it'll give you some ideas: http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=6e996c4d3b78677b4c72dad95b2c22 f9&entry_id=41898

[gbolt]

Great review and opinions CarlZ993. Well worth clicking the link!