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squeezebox
04-28-2015, 04:36
A fair piece of about my hiking the trail this year is about cleaning out my anger of my ex-wife, brother, 20 yr old son. My brother seems to be pretty much okay. My ex has stopped being violent, after the cops stopped by to talk to her. My son is still violent sometimes. I just don't need this ****. I'm hiking for mental health , mine!! Just don't what else to say.

shakey_snake
04-28-2015, 05:25
I've heard the healing the trail does for the head, is directly proportional damage it does to your feet!

Here's to the bloody nubs that extend beyond your ankles!

illabelle
04-28-2015, 05:36
Staying angry takes a lot of energy and focus. Hauling your butt and your gear through the woods and over the hills takes plenty of energy and focus. So maybe it'll work??
Hope you're able to enjoy the trail too!
:)

MuddyWaters
04-28-2015, 08:38
Cant change other people.
You can accept them, what they do to you, and include them in you life.
Or you can exclude them.
You can run away for a while, they will be there when you get back. Not a permanent solution.

full conditions
04-28-2015, 09:12
One of the things that helps get me through a particularly hard day of teaching is thinking about my next section hike. Uncooperative students, angry parents, demanding administrators all become something I can endure when I remember that soon I'll be on the AT. Whenever I'm suffering on some long, exhausting climb or a day in the rain I try to remember that this is what I was dreaming of and not to squander a single, precious moment "wishing I was home wishing I was here". I think the trail is restorative therapy for many of us. Some days, just thinking about the trail is enough. Or posting on White Blaze.

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 09:28
How people treat us is a reflection them, not us. We do not treat others is not based on merit, but rather on our own sense of fairness. Our happiness in life is not a dependent on our situation, but rather how we view our situation. Ask yourself who was happier, Gandhi or Kurt Cobain? Who was at peace, Mother Teresa or Robin Williams? Why do people protest what they perceive as an injustice against an innocent person by hurting other people they know are innocent? How we react to life hurts us and everyone around. We cannot truly feel the pain of others. We feel our own pain more. Reacting is self destructive. Things and situation do not make a happy life. Attitude does. You are not angry because of them no more than they are angry because of you. You are angry because of you. Go out on the trail and you will still be there. Having said all this, if you are going on the trail to get yourself right, it might work. If you are going so you can have a better plan to deal with them, you are wasting your time. There will always be jerks and there will always be you. You can't change them. They are not your problem.

Water Rat
04-28-2015, 10:16
If you are running away from the situation, nothing will be solved. The situation will still be there when you get back.

However, if hiking makes you happy and is a "reset" button for you, then it can be a helpful tool. Sometimes distancing ourselves from a situation is the best thing we can do. It allows us to view things from a different perspective and gain insight as to how we need to deal with the situation from that moment forward. In addition, sometimes physical activity allows us to vent the anger. That is never a bad thing. Getting that out makes space for other thoughts and emotions to move in. Hiking can be amazing therapy! Once you remember what "happy" looks like, it can be a lot easier to realize just unhappy you were with a given situation. That can be great motivation for taking that first step toward saying "I'd done with this. It is time to make it stop."

It's never unhealthy to cut unhealthy relationships from our lives... There are people out there who are extremely unhappy and they will suck the life out of you if you let them.

The first step (of cutting out the people who are toxin) is often the hardest, but it is so worth it when you have made the choice to surround your self with people who care.

I hope you find your answers.

AO2134
04-28-2015, 11:01
I always found anger to be fuel. It is motivation. It propels me forward, although sometimes it does make me take a few unnecessary steps back.

That anger has caused you to reevaluate your position and will hopefully lead you to some healing. Good luck sir.

Teacher & Snacktime
04-28-2015, 14:31
How people treat us is a reflection them, not us. We do not treat others is not based on merit, but rather on our own sense of fairness. Our happiness in life is not a dependent on our situation, but rather how we view our situation. Ask yourself who was happier, Gandhi or Kurt Cobain? Who was at peace, Mother Teresa or Robin Williams? Why do people protest what they perceive as an injustice against an innocent person by hurting other people they know are innocent? How we react to life hurts us and everyone around. We cannot truly feel the pain of others. We feel our own pain more. Reacting is self destructive. Things and situation do not make a happy life. Attitude does. You are not angry because of them no more than they are angry because of you. You are angry because of you. Go out on the trail and you will still be there. Having said all this, if you are going on the trail to get yourself right, it might work. If you are going so you can have a better plan to deal with them, you are wasting your time. There will always be jerks and there will always be you. You can't change them. They are not your problem.


BB - I hope you don't mind, but I paraphrased this a bit to fit a situation with which I've been dealing lately regarding bullying. I found the phrasing effective and to-the-point, and gave you credit :)


"How people treat you is a reflection on them, not you. You can treat others based on merit, and your own sense of fairness, but cannot control how you will be treated in return. All you can control is to what extent you allow their negative behavior to affect your life by reacting to them. There will always be jerks and there will always be you. You can't change them; they are not your problem." - AT Hiker, Birdbrain

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 15:19
BB - I hope you don't mind, but I paraphrased this a bit to fit a situation with which I've been dealing lately regarding bullying. I found the phrasing effective and to-the-point, and gave you credit :)


"How people treat you is a reflection on them, not you. You can treat others based on merit, and your own sense of fairness, but cannot control how you will be treated in return. All you can control is to what extent you allow their negative behavior to affect your life by reacting to them. There will always be jerks and there will always be you. You can't change them; they are not your problem." - AT Hiker, Birdbrain

That is fine. I suspect I am paraphrasing people too. I doubt I came up with any of that on my own. I try to learn by example. It is less painful than the alternative.

Edit: After a bit of thought I recall a book that can be useful for people dealing with difficult people. It is called The Four Agreements. I could recommend an even better Book. However, some would be offended. ;)

futureatwalker
04-28-2015, 16:24
“Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.”
John MuirI wish you well. Enjoy your hike. Forget about everyone back home.

WingedMonkey
04-28-2015, 20:03
Perhaps for the few weeks you are on the trail you can figure out why you make others around you so angry.

Teacher & Snacktime
04-28-2015, 20:13
That is fine. I suspect I am paraphrasing people too. I doubt I came up with any of that on my own. I try to learn by example. It is less painful than the alternative.

Edit: After a bit of thought I recall a book that can be useful for people dealing with difficult people. It is called The Four Agreements. I could recommend an even better Book. However, some would be offended. ;)


Just so you know....the comment was well received on my FB page.

HikerMom sends her best in her response: "I really like Birdbrain. He's an honorable man, IMO. He speaks truth. You can't control others only yourself. True dat. That trick is to not let those that clearly "push your buttons" get to you. It's hard & sometimes impossible not to react. It's like putting your hand on a hot stove & not reacting to the pain. It's THAT hard sometimes, IMO, no matter what kind of person you really are, it's still hard."

Anyway, yours is great advice for the OP, as are some of the other posts I've seen here. This thread reminds me of the support and caring I'd come to know on WB, but which unfortunately tends to fall by the cynical wayside. Kudos to (almost) all here, and best luck on your hike, Squeezebox.

misterfloyd
04-28-2015, 20:14
Gotta tell you Full Conditions, I teach in NC as well and I have been looking forward to this long section hike for a while.

It does have a healing effect but the problems you leave will be there when you get back, at least for me, many times :)

I hope the opposite is true for you. I hope you are able to find peace, or at least deal, or learn how to deal with a toxic situation... Myself, I'm still working at it.

Floyd

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 20:14
Perhaps for the few weeks you are on the trail you can figure out why you make others around you so angry.

I doubt you will ever find a greater proof of my statements above than the one I just quoted here.

4eyedbuzzard
04-28-2015, 20:20
That is fine. I suspect I am paraphrasing people too. I doubt I came up with any of that on my own. I try to learn by example. It is less painful than the alternative.

Edit: After a bit of thought I recall a book that can be useful for people dealing with difficult people. It is called The Four Agreements. I could recommend an even better Book. However, some would be offended. ;)Just because one does not agree with the central premise of a particular book, does not mean that they would necessarily discard the many words of wisdom and guidance to be found within. Many simply find that it is part of a much larger collection of human thought, rather than the whole tamale. ;)

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 20:24
Just so you know....the comment was well received on my FB page.

HikerMom sends her best in her response: "I really like Birdbrain. He's an honorable man, IMO. He speaks truth.

HM was my 1st friend on here. She knows me. She also knows that I do not always succeed in following my own advice. I try. I fail. I try again. I fail again. I do not give up. Say hi for me.

4eyedbuzzard
04-28-2015, 20:30
You can't change other people. It's difficult enough changing yourself. Go relax in the woods. Get rid of the relationships that drag you down. Be selfish in this sense. No one takes care of you more than you do.

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 20:35
Just because one does not agree with the central premise of a particular book, does not mean that they would necessarily discard the many words of wisdom and guidance to be found within. Many simply find that it is part of a much larger collection of human thought, rather than the whole tamale. ;)

Wisdom can be gleaned from many sources. If one is patient and looks hard enough, it can even be found on hiking sites. :p

kayak karl
04-28-2015, 21:01
i don't go on a long hike until i have thinks in my life settled. pack is heavy enough without extra baggage. just saying :-?

Patrickjd9
04-28-2015, 21:36
i don't go on a long hike until i have thinks in my life settled. pack is heavy enough without extra baggage. just saying :-?
These sort of life transitions and situations account for a huge number of thru-hikers every year. I'm not a thru-hiker, but have spent a week on the trail in the prime spring season a half-dozen times.

I've talked to someone most years whose life could be the subject of a country song. People looking for a respite from bad/demanding jobs, divorces, widowhood, and alcohol/drugs are all out there. It seems to work for many even if they don't get to Maine.

kayak karl
04-28-2015, 22:25
does it really work for them? if you can't accept the things you can not change, at home , i doubt you will do it on the trail. you don't run away from problems, you attack them, and when you win you reward yourself with a vacation on the trail :)

Teacher & Snacktime
04-28-2015, 22:30
These sort of life transitions and situations account for a huge number of thru-hikers every year. I'm not a thru-hiker, but have spent a week on the trail in the prime spring season a half-dozen times.

I've talked to someone most years whose life could be the subject of a country song. People looking for a respite from bad/demanding jobs, divorces, widowhood, and alcohol/drugs are all out there. It seems to work for many even if they don't get to Maine.

I think the trick is that while hiking the AT the immediate pressures of the problems are set aside, and one can start seeing them more objectively, as if from a distance. There's enough time in a hiking day to allow the mind to hash it all out, and find possibilities hidden under the yoke of everyday life.

Just Bill
04-28-2015, 22:35
In 2000 (or so) there was a NOBO named Screamer.
He had gone through some bad stuff and what was said to be a horrible divorce, which eventually led him to financial ruin, homelessness and some legal troubles.

He started down south, not really as a thru-hiker but a lost soul and got his trail name because he would scream at his ex all the time, "That bitch put this mountain here..." And so on. He turned into a minor celebrity that year and rumors and stories of his shouting matches with the damnable bitch were plentiful, as was his reputation of erratic behavior, living out of hiker boxes, general unpleasantness, and a person to be avoided.

Somewhere south of Vermont I stayed at a hostel I don't recall the name of; with a cute, crazy in love couple from Maine and a long haired fella with a rough beard and generally peaceful look. Just a few more satisfied customer's on the AT really.

The hostel had a barn for the hikers we hung out in as it was pouring out, so we sat around and had a few beers. The gal asked the fella to pick up the guitar in the corner and play a tune. The scraggly fella half smiled and proceeded to play a few tunes pleasantly enough. Pretty damn well by trail standards actually. She seemed genuinely touched truth be told.

When he was done the couple headed off to do couple things and the fella and I hoisted a beer, toasted a dry roof, and said hello.

Before me sat the infamous Screamer. Not being a particular shy fella I asked him about his reputation, which he recalled as fairly accurate.

That said, the fella sitting with me that day was no longer Screamer, but just a fellow hiker and decent person. The trail had swallowed his anger, the last few weeks since he'd met the couple; had restored his hope. Screamer was done screaming.

"I walked it out, somewhere in New York I think... "

You can find what you're looking for on the trail; but tough to walk away from your kid. Although 20, he may not be a man.
That said, you can't help anyone else until you help yourself. Walking away may be for the best.

Easy call on the rest of em, tough call with a kid.

Teacher & Snacktime
04-28-2015, 22:40
But see, Bill....that's the beauty. Leaving it behind to hike the trail does not necessarily equate to leaving it behind permanently. If solutions can be found in the hike, those solutions may aid in restoring a relationship rather than eliminating one. He's hiking to leave behind the anger, perhaps, and not necessarily the people.

Just Bill
04-28-2015, 22:48
Yar.
The two sides of the coin are if the boy is in a stable enough place to step out on.
Only the accordion can call that toss.

BirdBrain
04-28-2015, 22:54
The point about the 20 year old is valid. I was an idiot when I was 20. Yes, even more so than now. I had to beat one of my friends to that point. I had a son tell me he hated me when he was 16. He tells me he loves me at the end of every conversation now. Neither of us have changed much between those years. He was a good kid at 16. The 20 year old is not all he will be. Hopefully none of us are.

kayak karl
04-28-2015, 23:31
you really think people can see the forest for the trees just because they are in the forest? :) how many people have come to a life changing epiphanies on the trail ? i'd be curious to know. (authors of books don't count)

Teacher & Snacktime
04-28-2015, 23:56
Well, I can't speak personally about epiphanies, but I can attest to a therapeutic value toward relationship issues to be found on the trail. I've enjoyed the ability to hold silent "conversations" that have let me outline complaints and address issues that bother me. Clarifying my thoughts and position on an issue, with as much emotional vitriol as I choose to enjoy in the instant, has more than once relieved me of the burden of my anger and facilitated it's evaporation. All without spewing hurtful words that could damage a relationship that with patience might be salvaged.

Does it always work? No.....but the success rate has been high enough so far that I'd certainly recommend the process to others: Vent the anger as loudly and vehemently as you can where none can be hurt by it. Let it all out. It may not ever return, but if it does, it might just be in manageable form. :)

BirdBrain
04-29-2015, 00:32
I will stop pretending that I have the answers after this post. I am going to post a video. It is a story about a daughter that can't seem to find a way to properly express her feelings to her parents. It is more than that, but the summary I just gave is enough. I would ask squeezebox to go to 1:00, 2:30, and 4:00 and ask yourself what the emotion this singer is trying to convey. Is it frustration, anger, resolve, regret, rage, or something else?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDm2a6TSdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDm2a6TSdM

It is normal to have raw emotions when life does not go the way it should. These emotions can be confusing. We may not fully grasp what we are feeling. Regardless of circumstance, we must resolve to not let our emotions dictate our actions. These emotions can be like a river of water. It may be impossible to dam them up. The dam may break and the damage may be worse than if we just let them flow. A better plan is to admit they are there and direct them. A raging river that cannot be stopped can often be directed to places where the water is desperately needed. Only the OP can know the best place to direct the energy of the river within. I have a suggestion. Direct it to helping others.

Now go back and watch the whole video. If you are like me, the emotions will flood you over at 1:00, 2:30, and 4:00 if you try to fully grasp the story of this song. Or maybe not. Maybe I am a bit touched. Anything is possible. Okay. I think I have said enough.

Acacia
04-29-2015, 02:44
you really think people can see the forest for the trees just because they are in the forest? :)

Yes, because the OP’s problems are the “forest”. That’s why when someone is upset and they “take a hike”, they are giving themselves time and space and quiet to think about things without all the noise. That’s what the other posts above have been saying. By removing himself from his problems temporarily, the OP can get a better perspective of the “forest”. “Not seeing the forest for the trees” is someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to see the whole picture

Squeezebox, I would go. But tell your son what you’re doing and invite him to join you. He too may need an outlet for his pent up anger and energy.

squeezebox
04-29-2015, 05:25
Yes I have hurt my son with my anger, he has learned to be an angry young man. My ex-wife is a lost case that I choose to have no responsibility for. But I will always be available for my son. I'ld take a bullet for him. But he still needs to learn how to be a man.

pauly_j
04-29-2015, 06:28
A lot of people saying this can only be running away from problems that will still be there when you get back? I disagree. Yes, it could be that but it could also be something very worthwhile. It will give you the time away and the clarity of thinking to decide whether you want them in your life and what steps to take if you don't.

It could, no WILL be life-changing and will completely change your outlook. If you decide you need a fresh start away from all that baggage, this is the perfect way to start it.

Good luck.

rocketsocks
04-29-2015, 06:59
Squeezebox, plenty of advise here, just wanted to say sorry to hear your going through such a tough time, I sure hope this works out for you and your family...have a good hike.

lemon b
04-29-2015, 07:33
Nice one shakey snake.

One things for sure hiking does clear out head cobwebs.

MisterQ
04-29-2015, 08:02
A lot of people saying this can only be running away from problems that will still be there when you get back? I disagree. Yes, it could be that but it could also be something very worthwhile. It will give you the time away and the clarity of thinking to decide whether you want them in your life and what steps to take if you don't.

It could, no WILL be life-changing and will completely change your outlook. If you decide you need a fresh start away from all that baggage, this is the perfect way to start it.

Good luck.

Sorry, but the concept of "deciding" whether to discard the "baggage" of a 20 year old child makes my head explode. That isn't a decision, it's an obligation to live up to.

pauly_j
04-29-2015, 09:26
I wasn't necessarily referring to 'discarding' his child, more the attachments to that stress.

If you don't want to deal with your ex wife, you don't have to. You can choose to discard that relationship. If your kid is a bum living in your basement who won't get their life in gear, you can choose to discard that particular living situation.

I'm not saying pack up and leave.

BirdBrain
04-29-2015, 11:05
Yes I have hurt my son with my anger, he has learned to be an angry young man. My ex-wife is a lost case that I choose to have no responsibility for. But I will always be available for my son. I'ld take a bullet for him. But he still needs to learn how to be a man.

Your honesty about your anger is breath taking. It positions you on the edge of success. However, your confusion of its source will make any attempt to succeed a complete waste of time. Anger does not come from without. It comes from within. This is not a nuance. It is a fact. You and your son are not victims of circumstances. You are grown men choosing to act a certain way. As long as you see anger as a product of circumstance, you have zero chance of ever defeating it. You can hide it by choosing other surroundings. However, it will work about as good as make up on Cher. Her youth is a lie that only fools marvel at. Under the disguise, she is still old and you are still angry. You want to conquer anger? Stop assigning the victim charge as a justification. Your son owns his anger. You own yours. Neither of you are hapless victims. You are a man, not an animal. Forget demanding that your son act like a man. Demand it of yourself.

full conditions
04-29-2015, 11:35
Your honesty about your anger is breath taking. It positions you on the edge of success. However, your confusion of its source will make any attempt to succeed a complete waste of time. Anger does not come from without. It comes from within. This is not a nuance. It is a fact. You and your son are not victims of circumstances. You are grown men choosing to act a certain way. As long as you see anger as a product of circumstance, you have zero chance of ever defeating it. You can hide it by choosing other surroundings. However, it will work about as good as make up on Cher. Her youth is a lie that only fools marvel at. Under the disguise, she is still old and you are still angry. You want to conquer anger? Stop assigning the victim charge as a justification. Your son owns his anger. You own yours. Neither of you are hapless victims. You are a man, not an animal. Forget demanding that your son act like a man. Demand it of yourself.
Did you have a particularly bad breakup with Cher?

BirdBrain
04-29-2015, 11:40
Did you have a particularly bad breakup with Cher?

None of Cher's break ups went well. Actually, I chose a woman far superior to Cher. Fortunately for me, she is a patient and forgiving lady.

Another Kevin
04-29-2015, 13:25
If you're on the trail to run away from your problems, you're probably carrying them along, or at the very least they'll still be there when you get back.
If you're on the trail so that you can get a moment's peace to face your problems, you just might face them down.

I hike because I get fat and grumpy when I don't. The 'grumpy' bit is more important than the 'fat' bit. My wife has learnt to push me out the door when I need it.

LittleRock
04-30-2015, 08:01
While I was out hiking the AT for a week last fall, I checked my phone halfway through and found a voicemail from my wife saying our washing machine had malfunctioned while she was away. As in spilled 100's of gallons of water and ruined most of the hardwood flooring in our home. I finished my hike and came back to the chaos of insurance claims, hiring a contractor to do repairs, living in a hotel room for 2 weeks, etc. If all this had happened a week earlier I probably would have lost my mind. But after a week on the AT, I was able to deal with everything calmly and rationally.

I've never found anything else that compares with hiking in terms of restoring mental health.

Patrickjd9
05-03-2015, 20:09
My wife has learnt to push me out the door when I need it.

My wife has learned the same, though I may have found her limit with 9 days of backpacking and a work trip in four weeks!

Starchild
05-04-2015, 07:05
For me the trail was very healing and transformational. I dealt with many life issues along the way especially family/friend/childhood issues and I did learn and grow a lot. I was given new insight and knowledge and perspective that helped me better understand others and expectation. One example the difference between friend and acquaintance became clear.

I do believe a great part of the healing and transformation happened because I was in a very caring, supporting and loving environment that allows that healing. I have one great super friend who is always there for me with wise counsel. I had people I know who was offering to send care packages and other things as they desired to make my hike better, I would write to these people from the trail and they loved to get those emails. I was also blessed with a abundance of help, love and care from trail angels, and over all that there was this, to me, totally obvious coordinated effort controlling it all (call it God or Love or whatever). I get exactly what I needed, usually in abundance, when I needed it.

So healing and transformation is possible, but it is also not guaranteed. I think you need to ask what do you want to get out of it and how - where will the healing come from? For me the healing would come from acceptance of who I am and what I am doing. It was a prayerfully considered question I had going into the decision. The more people I talked to the more acceptance I got. I was told by almost everyone who knew me that yes I should do it, and many said also that they knew in their hearts that I would complete it. The level of support I got, again from those who knew me, overwhelmingly answered this question.

Also something that came to me about this time, dealing with emotions, I saw this http://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/Plutchik-wheel.png which helped me understand where emotions come from and how they manifest, and of particular interest was the opposite emotion, and how during healing one emotion can flip to the opposite. Like when I had someone I trusted, but saw them for their true self that trust became disgust. Don't knwo if it would help you, but just thought I would share.

Good Luck