Grand Canyon - Nankoweap Trail

[HooKooDooKu]

I've been intrigued by this trail ever since I first read about it on the National Geographic List of 20 Best Hikes in the National Parks (http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/trips/best-trails/national-park-hikes#/nankoweap-ruins-grand-canyon_35974_600x450.jpg).
I'm looking for more information beyond the basic NPS Trail Description and Warngins (http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/upload/Nankoweap_Trail.pdf).

The one thing that concerns me about this trail is the NPS warning that "Hikers must be experienced in canyon route finding".

I've been a back-packer for two decades, but most of that has been hiking the forests of GSMNP. The only canyon hiking I've done was a one-time over-night trip down Kiabab and back up Bright Angle. Living in the Deep South, I don't expect to get the opportunity to become "experienced in canyon route finding".

Is this really a special skill required to hike the Nankoweap?

[Shutterbug]

I've been intrigued by this trail ever since I first read about it on the National Geographic List of 20 Best Hikes in the National Parks (http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/trips/best-trails/national-park-hikes#/nankoweap-ruins-grand-canyon_35974_600x450.jpg).
I'm looking for more information beyond the basic NPS Trail Description and Warngins (http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/upload/Nankoweap_Trail.pdf).

The one thing that concerns me about this trail is the NPS warning that "Hikers must be experienced in canyon route finding".

I've been a back-packer for two decades, but most of that has been hiking the forests of GSMNP. The only canyon hiking I've done was a one-time over-night trip down Kiabab and back up Bright Angle. Living in the Deep South, I don't expect to get the opportunity to become "experienced in canyon route finding".

Is this really a special skill required to hike the Nankoweap?

I have not hiked that specific trail, but I have a lot of Grand Canyon experience. When you read the NPS warnings, remember their typical audience. Most of the thousands of people who visit the Grand Canyon have no hiking experience at all. Almost every time I hike the Grand Canyon, I end up having to provide assistance to someone who is in over their head.

Route finding in the Grand Canyon is no more difficult than route finding on most other wilderness trails. The primary issue is that trails often change directions in areas were slick rock makes the turn difficult to see. After a few hikers miss the turn, there are footprints continuing on in the same direction Sometimes the foot prints going the wrong direction are easier to see than the trail. One just needs to be alert. There are no blazes on Grand Canyon trails and one can't trust the cairns. In the Grand Canyon it seems that cairns are just as likely to mark where someone got lost as they are to mark the correct trail.

If you are concerned, you could hike the Clear Creek Trail first. It is similar trail but is hiked enough that route finding isn't a challenge. It would provide you with the experience to boost your confidence.

[HooKooDooKu]

My only concern is that I don't want to be stupid and ignore good advice. But at the same time, I know that the NPS likes to come up with advice that is good for everyone in every situation and then repeat that advice like a broken record without taking the details of a specific situation into account.

As an example, their advice for hiking is something like "carry one gallon of water per person". My specific situation was that I was hiking with two young boys at a time when temp at the river were only 70 degrees, and we were hiking down hill only that day. When I asked a Ranger how much water I need to carry under those circumstances, the only answer they would give was that one gallon per person mantra.

Hiking Clear Creek Trail first isn't really an option. I am so far away that a trip to the Grand Canyon takes a lot of time and a lot of money. So practice trips are out of the question. And a hike as major as hiking all the way to the bottom of the canyon and back up is difficult enought that I can't expect to do multiple hikes in one trip.

So the real purpose of this post is to get input on how wise it would be to ignore the NPS advice in regard to this trail.

[Shutterbug]

... So the real purpose of this post is to get input on how wise it would be to ignore the NPS advice in regard to this trail.

It would be easy to say, "The NPS is too conservative, you should ignore their warning.", but, one can't overlook the fact that a hiker died on that trail about a year ago. He ran out of water and died about one mile from the trailhead. I am sure if you Google, you can find the story. The story I read suggested that he underestimated the difficulty of the trail. The climb out took a lot longer than he estimated. He ran out of water. When the searchers found him, he was almost within sight of the trailhead.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've been able to find a few articles about deaths on this trail. Interestingly none about anyone falling. Just people dying of heat exhaustion.

I hike the Smokies, so hills are nothing new. I also understand that there are no reliable water sources on the upper half of the trail. So it would seem to me that all you have to do is leave a water cache near Marion Point (about a gallon per person) and hike in October when Temps are not so hot. Once you get to this upper section it would seem that route finding skills are not much of a necessity as you are basicly between a cliff and open space.

[lonehiker]

When I was initially planning my rim-to-rim and subsequent rim-to-rim-to-rims, seems like I watched a video that indicated that the typical heat casualty (sometimes fatality) were white males between the ages of 25-50 (or something like that) that chose not to heed the NPS advice....

Appears to me that you got sound advice from Shutterbug reference route finding. My only insight to you is that I've done 2 hikes in October and although the hikes started at or near freezing the temps quickly rose as I dropped over the rim and the sun came out. It became quite hot even in October.

[tdoczi]

I have not hiked that specific trail, but I have a lot of Grand Canyon experience. When you read the NPS warnings, remember their typical audience. Most of the thousands of people who visit the Grand Canyon have no hiking experience at all. Almost every time I hike the Grand Canyon, I end up having to provide assistance to someone who is in over their head.

Route finding in the Grand Canyon is no more difficult than route finding on most other wilderness trails. The primary issue is that trails often change directions in areas were slick rock makes the turn difficult to see. After a few hikers miss the turn, there are footprints continuing on in the same direction Sometimes the foot prints going the wrong direction are easier to see than the trail. One just needs to be alert. There are no blazes on Grand Canyon trails and one can't trust the cairns. In the Grand Canyon it seems that cairns are just as likely to mark where someone got lost as they are to mark the correct trail.

If you are concerned, you could hike the Clear Creek Trail first. It is similar trail but is hiked enough that route finding isn't a challenge. It would provide you with the experience to boost your confidence.

ive never hiked it myself either, but from all i've read on it the consensus seems to be that, unlike the warnings on the more established trails, the warnings about nankoweap are no joke. this is from reading the writings of experienced people who have hiked it.

[tdoczi]

So the real purpose of this post is to get input on how wise it would be to ignore the NPS advice in regard to this trail.

based entirely on second half information, but from people who seem to know, i would say, not wise at all.

[Shutterbug]

I've been able to find a few articles about deaths on this trail. Interestingly none about anyone falling. Just people dying of heat exhaustion.

I hike the Smokies, so hills are nothing new. I also understand that there are no reliable water sources on the upper half of the trail. So it would seem to me that all you have to do is leave a water cache near Marion Point (about a gallon per person) and hike in October when Temps are not so hot. Once you get to this upper section it would seem that route finding skills are not much of a necessity as you are basicly between a cliff and open space.

The only reason I am not encouraging you to go for it is my own experience with people getting into trouble. I have had six different situations in which people have gotten into trouble because they under estimated the difficulty of hiking in the Grand Canyon. You have some experience in the Grand Canyon, so you are unlikely to make that mistake. If your only concern is route finding, consider using a gps with a track back function. With the track back function, even if you miss a turn, you can find your way back to the trail. I would guess that a good gps will have the trail in its data base. You can use the gps to confirm your route finding decisions.

[HooKooDooKu]

The only reason I am not encouraging you to go for it is my own experience with people getting into trouble. I have had six different situations in which people have gotten into trouble because they under estimated the difficulty of hiking in the Grand Canyon. You have some experience in the Grand Canyon, so you are unlikely to make that mistake. If your only concern is route finding, consider using a gps with a track back function. With the track back function, even if you miss a turn, you can find your way back to the trail. I would guess that a good gps will have the trail in its data base. You can use the gps to confirm your route finding decisions.

Thanks so much for the input specifically addressing my concerns.

Now if you could just tell me if the traverse is so exposed and scarry that I would turn chicken and turn around :)

Seriously though... here is my impression of the exposure, would appreciate any feedback from someone that has been there. The exposure must not be too bad (asuming you're not being foolish) because many people have obviously completed the traverse and I can't find a record (on the internet) of anyone falling to their death (all the deaths seem to be related to heat or underestimating the time and exertion required). But at the same time... as a father, I don't know if my nerves could take it if my kids (preteen) came along.

And while my experience with the Grand Canyon is limited... it's definitly been an experience... as in a 12yo throwing up breakfast (on his younger brother) at the base of Bright Angel trails and not another adult in sight.

[The Solemates]

while I havent done this trail, we are headed to do it in October. interested in the comments as well. actually, we plan to hike downriver to the Little Colorado once at the nankoweap/Co River juncture. anyone have any experience doing this?

[Canada Goose]

Two hikers with blogs are currently on the Hayduke Trail, and have hiked some, if not most of this trail:

http://www.walkingwithwired.com/2015/05/day-43-grand-canyon-nankoweap-tr.html

https://hayduketrail.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/day-42-the-nankoweap-trail/

They are currently hiking independant of each other through the Grand Canyon, and may be able to help you with any questions regarding up-to-date info. Katherine Cook is tracking the trail in real time by GPS, including water sources, with the intent of providing this information to Li Brannfors who makes free maps of the Hayduke Trail(and others) for hikers.

Both blogs are excellent, the writing and photographs superb!

Hope this helps you out...

CG

[StealthHikerBoy]

I've done a lot of hiking in the Grand Canyon - probably about a month of overnights in total over the past 5 years. I had about an hour long conversation with a ranger there a year ago where I was asking him about Nankoweap and also the Thunder River Falls hike on the North Rim. The conversation centered mostly on exposure, as I have a fear of heights that I battle whenever I go into the Canyon. Anytime I get to something marked with two D's (for difficult) on the map, it is a challenge for me, especially on the downhill side.

Anyway, he told me not to try Nankoweap, but that I'd be fine on Thunder River Falls. It did not sound like a route finding issue, but more of an exposure one.

I think it is always a bit of a challenge to know what to expect, because the Rangers are sort of trained to overstate the dangers (at least from the perspective of those of us with a bit of experience). But, I find if you talk to them and let them know your experience level, they are pretty good at guiding you.

So, I'd recommend calling them sometime when the backcountry office is not likely to be busy. If you have any doubt, skip Nankoweap and do a different non-corridor trail. All the ones I have done have been awesome, and Thunder River is next up for me.

[The Solemates]

Two hikers with blogs are currently on the Hayduke Trail, and have hiked some, if not most of this trail:

http://www.walkingwithwired.com/2015/05/day-43-grand-canyon-nankoweap-tr.html

https://hayduketrail.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/day-42-the-nankoweap-trail/

CG

right on...thanks!




So, I'd recommend calling them sometime when the backcountry office is not likely to be busy. If you have any doubt, skip Nankoweap and do a different non-corridor trail. All the ones I have done have been awesome, and Thunder River is next up for me.

already called. of course every experience level is different as you mentioned, but when discussing it with me they acted like it shouldnt be a problem.

[HooKooDooKu]

...I have a fear of heights...
...he told me not to try Nankoweap... It did not sound like a route finding issue, but more of an exposure one.
...
If you have any doubt, skip Nankoweap and do a different non-corridor trail...
I don't have any fear of heights... at least none beyond what I think the average person experiences.
The only experience I have with exposure is a spot in GSMNP several years ago. There was a hillside sloped at about 45º. A narrow trail traversed this hillside at an elevation about 200' above the river at the bottom. Nothing unusual about that for a GSMNP trail. But a recent fire had burned a 100 yards wide section of the hillside barren. If your foot slipped off the trail along this exposure, you were going to tumble that entire 200' all the way down to the river. I was fine traversing this exposure myself.
But my then 9yo son was with me. There was no good way to try to hold on to him as we made the traverse. So I had to rely on him being careful was we crossed this exposure. It was the one and only time I've ever been nervous hiking with one of my kids.

So I think I'll be able to simply will myself thru the exposed sections of Nankoweap by overwhelming my senses with the logical fact that I can not find any online references to anyone falling to their death along the Nankoweap. I just don't know if I could handle any of my kids along with me... at least not until they are a bit older (say mid-teens).

[Dogwood]

Reviving this old thread because of renewed interest.

HooKooDooKu had me recalling many cherished moments. I too remember this article, National Geographic List of 20 Best Hikes in the National Parks (http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/trips/best-trails/national-park-hikes#/nankoweap-ruins-grand-canyon_35974_600x450.jpg). It inspired me so much that I was bent on doing all 20 as part of a short NP's hikes' bucket list after first reading it. I've done 17 of the 2os still having the Lake Clark, Kenai Fjords, and Cave Winds NPs hikes to accomplish.
Of the NP's probably my most hiked and favorite are the Sierra NP's, Olympic, Yellowstone, and the Grand Canyon. I've seriously lost count the number of different times and treks at the Grand Canyon with a guesstimate of well over 20 different visits each time doing something different which always involved 5 days or more. Almost every named trail on GCNP maps which all have NPS descriptions, which I read pre hike, I've done. After having ascended/descended the Nankoweep Tr four times not all both on the same longer treks including a Hayduke Tr thru-hike, an alternate route to an AZT hike, N Rim walk about, and several R2R2R2R2R... multi week treks I have to agree with NPS Trail Description and Warngins (http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/upload/Nankoweap_Trail.pdf).

I understand and agree with Shutterbug's insightful concerns, who always seems to have level headed solid advice, since I too have spent much time in more than 40 different National Parks, about common NPS informational procedures regarding trail descriptions. This is great GCNP info, "...but I have a lot of Grand Canyon experience. When you read the NPS warnings, remember their typical audience. Most of the thousands of people who visit the Grand Canyon have no hiking experience at all. Almost every time I hike the Grand Canyon, I end up having to provide assistance to someone who is in over their head." I have had similar GCNP experiences. More accurately, IMHO, it's not inexperienced hikers that only get into trouble at GCNP BUT EXPERIENCED HIKERS NOT HEEDING GRAND CANYON NP SITUATIONS ASSUMING IT'S HIKING LIKE WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED ELSEWHERE WITH SOME OF THOSE COMING FROM EAST COAST LOCATIONS. Comparing what one experienced in GSMNP or on the AT to hiking the GC or specifically the Nankoweep Tr is a comparison rife with potential problems - if's, and's, and but's. Frankly, again, this has become a common problem out west in places like NPs.

The one specific concern by HooKooDuKoo about route finding or, as the NPS trail description states, "strong navigational skills required" is made in context of several factors: the exposure(height, no shade, narrow sloping bench), unmaintained more remote trail that is the Nankoweep, which is vastly different than highly maintained highly utilized corridor trail experiences which are what 89%(as I've last seen in NPS data and as quoted by three GCNP Rangers who've become "friends" with) are accustomed, sketchy H20 availability(only one intermittent seep), steep slippery sections(gritty pebbly) which increases with patchy ice or snow, and the most pertinent part, finding the cairned short climb down at Tilted Mesa after the contouring traverse to the steep stacked switchbacks.

At Tilted Mesa Shutterbug nailed it with his comment:
"The primary issue is that trails often change directions in areas were slick rock makes the turn difficult to see. After a few hikers miss the turn, there are footprints continuing on in the same direction Sometimes the foot prints going the wrong direction are easier to see than the trail. One just needs to be alert. There are no blazes on Grand Canyon trails and one can't trust the cairns. In the Grand Canyon it seems that cairns are just as likely to mark where someone got lost as they are to mark the correct trail."

That's mainly what I think the NPS Nankoweep Tr admonishment, "Hikers must be experienced in canyon route finding" is referring to. The hike is not all a benched traverse ascending to Nankoweep Creek.

Consider, getting from the N.Rim edge proper or from N Rim facilities to the Saddle Mt and Nankoweep TH proper to the CR is more than a 6k ft descent that has to be ascended if you come back up the Nankoweep" on exposed to heat and sun trail with sketchy water availability. Some cache H20 at Tilted Mesa and/or at Marion Pt for the ascent from Nankoweep Creek.

Consider the Nankoweep Tr from the N Rim is not a winter done hike. It's often done during high usage GCNP times in HOT weather. That's included in the exposure NPS designation. For me, although experienced IMHO I would rate it sketchy, extremely so, with a 10 yr old with ice and snow ascending and descending the Nankoweep Tr particularly in mid winter on the N Rim. Pull up some pics.

Consider the climb out conditions should you decide on ascending the nankweep Tr back to N Rim facilities or continuing on back cross canyon.

"Are "Special" skills ​required?" question is kind of a misnomer loaded question. IMHO, hiking in the Grand Canyon in the context of the situation most do it I'd say backpacking there, AND everywhere, requires being aware of different situations. The NPS GCNP personnel rate trails, AND ROUTES, for difficulty to assist based on more experiences than anyone else. They give the Nankoweep a Most Difficult/Expert rating; I wouldn't debate the accuracy of their descriptions. Keep the NPS Nankoweep Tr descriptions in this context preparing and assessing one's hiking abilities and desires and you'll be OK.

[Dogwood]

Two hikers with blogs are currently on the Hayduke Trail, and have hiked some, if not most of this trail:

http://www.walkingwithwired.com/2015/05/day-43-grand-canyon-nankoweap-tr.html

https://hayduketrail.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/day-42-the-nankoweap-trail/

They are currently hiking independant of each other through the Grand Canyon, and may be able to help you with any questions regarding up-to-date info. Katherine Cook is tracking the trail in real time by GPS, including water sources, with the intent of providing this information to Li Brannfors who makes free maps of the Hayduke Trail(and others) for hikers.

Both blogs are excellent, the writing and photographs superb!

Hope this helps you out...

CG

Erin "Wired" was and still is on a tear backpacking the last several yrs. Wired did the Hayduke Tr after completing/experiencing several LD thru-hikes including the Triple Crown. Consider her frame of mind and experience and get er dun bouncing down the trail attitude when she did the Nankoweep Tr. She's a fun read but IMHO there are better accounts of the Nankoweep Tr than Wired's. Consider her Nankoweep Tr experiences, I don't think, include both ascending and descending. The Hayduke Tr she experienced is a one way Nankoweep Tr experience. She did it all down hill. This leads to Solemates post.


while I havent done this trail, we are headed to do it in October. interested in the comments as well. actually, we plan to hike downriver to the Little Colorado once at the nankoweap/Co River juncture. anyone have any experience doing this?

Yes. I've done it twice. This is the route offered for the Hayduke Tr. There is a good description of doing this in Joe Mitchell's and Mike Coronella's Hayduke Tr Guidebook.

In short, after following the Nankoweep Cr to the CR, then hiking up to the Nankoweep granaries, which has become a rafting stop mecca must see, it's a slow going rock scramble with no trail along the CR where you then have to make your way across the CR done as Joe and Mike suggest by flagging down a boat for a hitchhike ride to another rafting mecca must see, the area around the confluence of the Little Colorado River/Colorado River. From there the Escalante Route starts connecting with the Tonto Tr with various S Rim outs. Note: getting across the CR legally and safely is detailed in the nakweep Guidebook with good tips. This is not something I would suggest attempting without the Guidebook info. Would not suggest attempting to swim or float across(on a Neo Air for example:eek:) the CR in this area either.

FWIW, that makes it possible to do a N Rim to N Rim Loop crossing the CR twice and, possibly, the LCR, which is wadeable, once. I did this once. Great hike/long GCNP hike. It's also possible but a long haul, and would require a resupply or substantial carry for most, to continue all the way on the Tonto Tr doing both east and west ending at Elves Chasm and ascending the Bass Tr. Did this once with no resupply. Andrew Skurka may have done a version of this.