View Full Version : For a cuben fiber tent, what weight (0.51 or 0.74) is ideal?
StealthHikerBoy
05-14-2015, 08:43
Sometime this year I am going to take the plunge and buy my first cuben tent, probably from ZPacks. Their standard option is for 0.51 weight cuben. But, for a few bucks and a few ounces in weight, you can upgrade to 0.74 cuben.
I know very little about this, but it seems that for a couple of ounces getting the heavier material probably makes sense. Are there any cuben geniuses out there who can comment and make a recommendation? Thanks!
Starchild
05-14-2015, 09:27
IDK what weight I got, 2013 Heximid model standard non-requested weight. Held up just fine for a thru and beyond. Also a beautiful and very functional minimal tent.
The Kisco Kid
05-14-2015, 09:59
I have the standard .51 ZPacks duplex. Awesome tent. They wouldn't sell a fabric if they didn't feel it would hold up. The floor is made from 1.0 oz fabric anyway and that's where it counts.
Honestly, if you're going cuben fiber, go all the way or just stick to old school material. That's my two cents.
MuddyWaters
05-14-2015, 22:13
O.51 is fine for a tent canopy.
If its used and handled with care.
It will stand up to rain.
It will not stand up rocks, stick, animals, pointy things.
It is easily repaired with tape, both temporarily in field and permanently.
I find zpacks choices dead on. 0.51 is ok for canopies, 0.74 is too light for ground. Most other mfg have both these wrong imo.
Starchild
05-15-2015, 06:54
O.51 is fine for a tent canopy.
If its used and handled with care.
It will stand up to rain.
It will not stand up rocks, stick, animals, pointy things.
It is easily repaired with tape, both temporarily in field and permanently.
I find zpacks choices dead on. 0.51 is ok for canopies, 0.74 is too light for ground. Most other mfg have both these wrong imo.
Well it will stand up to some level of 'rocks, stick, animals, pointy things' it is pretty durable stuff but not indestructible either.
StealthHikerBoy
05-15-2015, 15:56
Sounds like the lighter weight (0.51) works just fine. For the tent I am looking at, the heavier weight (0.74) is +$15 and +2.2 ounces. I'm thinking that is such a small weight increase that it is worth it for a tad more piece of mind.
Thanks for the input. These tents are so expensive and it is tough to see them before you buy, so thoughts are appreciated.
MuddyWaters
05-15-2015, 18:38
Well it will stand up to some level of 'rocks, stick, animals, pointy things' it is pretty durable stuff but not indestructible either.
I would not call 0.51 "durable" at all. It must be used with care. My son threw a marble sized rock. It went thru both sides of my hex canopy. Tearing a 1" hole, and a 6" slit. How durable does that sound?
Contact your canopy with anything abrasive , and it will have pinholes in it. It can stand wind, and rain.
Someone posted once a squirrel destroyed theirs while away from camp. Sharp little claws and 0.51 are not a good combo.
Starchild
05-15-2015, 18:55
I would not call 0.51 "durable" at all. It must be used with care. My son threw a marble sized rock. It went thru both sides of my hex canopy. Tearing a 1" hole, and a 6" slit. How durable does that sound?....
If throwing a marble sized rock caused that you got a defective CF tent. No way could it do that.
My experience has been very different with 0.51. I threw with great force my pack into my setup hexamid due to it pouring rain. I did not realize that I still had a hiking stick with that hardened carbon steal tip (or whatever it was made of). Well that point contacted the tent wall with the full weight of the thrown pack behind it. This tip BTW was leading the way and the point of impact on the tent.
Did the 0.51 withstand the onslaught. Well unfortunately not I did manage to break through the laminate however the tip did not penetrate the fabric but was stopped by the fibers. Causing a very minor hole in the lamination with a few threads still traversing it. It was permanently repaired with less then a dime's size of CF tape.
Now there has been some CF that has not measured up, and to be quite frank I don't know how to get the 'better' CF, but it can stand up to quite a bit more then you make it seem
bemental
05-15-2015, 19:13
if throwing a marble sized rock caused that you got a defective cf tent. No way could it do that.
My experience has been very different with 0.51. I threw with great force my pack into my setup hexamid due to it pouring rain. I did not realize that i still had a hiking stick with that hardened carbon steal tip (or whatever it was made of). Well that point contacted the tent wall with the full weight of the thrown pack behind it. This tip btw was leading the way and the point of impact on the tent.
Did the 0.51 withstand the onslaught. Well unfortunately not i did manage to break through the laminate however the tip did not penetrate the fabric but was stopped by the fibers. Causing a very minor hole in the lamination with a few threads still traversing it. It was permanently repaired with less then a dime's size of cf tape.
Now there has been some cf that has not measured up, and to be quite frank i don't know how to get the 'better' cf, but it can stand up to quite a bit more then you make it seem
gauntlet thrown sir!
MuddyWaters
05-15-2015, 19:54
If throwing a marble sized rock caused that you got a defective CF tent. No way could it do that.
My experience has been very different with 0.51. I threw with great force my pack into my setup hexamid due to it pouring rain. I did not realize that I still had a hiking stick with that hardened carbon steal tip (or whatever it was made of). Well that point contacted the tent wall with the full weight of the thrown pack behind it. This tip BTW was leading the way and the point of impact on the tent.
Did the 0.51 withstand the onslaught. Well unfortunately not I did manage to break through the laminate however the tip did not penetrate the fabric but was stopped by the fibers. Causing a very minor hole in the lamination with a few threads still traversing it. It was permanently repaired with less then a dime's size of CF tape.
Now there has been some CF that has not measured up, and to be quite frank I don't know how to get the 'better' CF, but it can stand up to quite a bit more then you make it seem
I assure you a sharp edged spinning rock thrown at 40-50 mph can do it.
And, a falling stick, or possibly even pointy tipped falling large pine cone can put pinholes too.
Pine needles have reportedly perforated 0.74 cuben groundsheets.
A trekking pole tip is quite blunt. Try something pointier, like a cactus needle.
There is simply no way to call anything a squirrel can perforate with its claws by jumping and climbing on, durable IMO.
NightCreature0
07-16-2015, 13:04
I have the standard .51 zpacks duplex as well. I use a tyvek type material groundsheet and it seems to be more than enough protection.
slbirdnerd
07-16-2015, 13:20
I just got a Zpacks Duplex for my Scout and I with the standard weights (with the blue top). The top is the thinner one, but the bottom comes standard as the thicker one. I'm very, very impressed with it so far. I think you'd be safe with the thinner top, but like someone said it's not that much more money or weight to upgrade. I can tell you the Duplex is light, very easy to set up and has plenty of space for 2 adults--and your stuff/packs. Zpacks is awesome!
31343
sethd513
07-27-2015, 20:23
I'm on the same boat as the OP. This thred is making me uncomfortable about spending the money for the duplex .74 I would like to have. Yes it's 3.5 lbs lighter then my limelight 2p which is an amazing savings but it's 3 times the cost. if either tent fails either will need to be repaired in the field. I can only assume one can only play the hand they are delt at this point.
The 0.51 has been perfectly fine for my Hexamid Twin - over 100 nights on it so far. I would not personally feel the need to go with the 0.74 for my next cuben shelter canopy.
I made my mid from .51 I would not use cuben for the floor regardless of the weight.
I would get the thicker fabric. For a nominal cost and slight weight difference, I would go for it.
Just think, around camp in the woods this would be HUGE bragging rights.
Seriously, CF is def a fabric to be careful with, last think that you want is a hole or tear that you cannot fix. I had one 1st year with mine, had to fix it with an acorn and dental floss.
I've never had an issue with my .51 cuben gear. I agree with Starchild- a small rock should not penetrate the material
Great thread. How does the .51 hold up to hail?
I've been in rain, snow and hail inside my hexamid ... No issues at all except snow load has to be shaken off every so often to avoid the walls closing in (not designed as a four season tent). Some major winds as well. I've never had a hole either although I carry cuben tape if I need to fix anything. CF is all about ounce shaving. I don't see a need to voluntarily add ounces back. Maybe it makes sense for someone hard on their gear.
Here another consideration. Holes in Cuben are dirt simple to fix. A simple piece or tape gives you a permanent fix. So even if a kid throws a 60mph rock through your shelter it can be repaired to as good as new.
SteelCut
07-28-2015, 08:53
Here another consideration. Holes in Cuben are dirt simple to fix. A simple piece or tape gives you a permanent fix. So even if a kid throws a 60mph rock through your shelter it can be repaired to as good as new.
^^ This !
I have a Zpacks Duplex with the .51 farbric. I carry a few odd pieces of CF repair tape. Luckily I've never had to use it. But most CF field repairs are the easiest to make.
One thing I did prior to taking the plunge and buying the hexamid was to order some smaller cuben pieces from zPacks including a couple of stuff sacks. Playing around with those pieces of material made me more confident regarding ordering the tent in the .51 material. I haven't had to repair my tent but I have repaired stuff sacks with cuben tape and they are truly as good as new after a repair. Eventually cuben will start fraying and become unusable at the end of the useful life of the piece. zPacks suggests that one shouldn't expect a tent to last much more than a thru hike of a long trail. I think that's about right. I haven't fully hiked a long trail but with 100+ nights on my hexamid i can see it lasting another 50 at least.
Just Bill
07-28-2015, 09:12
Only thing to add... other than an actual bad batch (rare) cuben is cuben.
There is only one supplier (Cuben Tech) as it is a proprietary fabric. As far as I can tell, if Zpacks is not the biggest customer in total, he is certainly the biggest user of cuben by far for our use. Someone mentioned "better cuben" but other than perhaps ordering the wrong style (there are a few different versions of each weight) there is no better or worse cuben really.
My impression that the .7 upgrade option was added mainly because of customer fears like the OP. If it makes you feel better... go for it cost/weight isn't too big of a bump. But I think you found more than enough folks here (and elsewhere) who are happy with the .5 weight in shelter walls.
And yar, the biggest CF advantage that I see is the easiest by far field repairs. Nothing that easy in any fabric.
To the OP.
I have a bunch of scrap pieces of .51 cuben. I could send you a piece so you can see for yourself how strong it is. PM me your address if interested.
colorado_rob
07-28-2015, 10:08
Just one more vote for the adequacy of the 0.51, my hexamid solo-plus seems like new after many nights' use. Also another vote for passing on the Cuben fiber floor, assuming you're buying a model without sewn-in floor, like the hexamid solo-plus has a mesh floor. I passed on adding in the expensive cuben ground sheet and simply use a polycro ground sheet, custom cut by me with ties in 6 places. Lighter (yes, even than cuben) and very cheep, two-pack sells for about $10 on gossamer gear. One sheet lasted about two months, on my second sheet now. Saves an additional two ounces vs. the cuben ground sheet (I think the 0.74 cuben). The total weight of my solo-plus (0.51 cuben with a beak) is 16.0 ounces, including the polycro ground sheet and all guy lines. Sweet, light setup for a thru.
I have two tents and one hammock tarp made with .51 cuben. I haven't had any issue with any of the cuben I own.
Would the .74 last longer bc it's thicker?
peakbagger
02-10-2016, 15:22
Hyperlight Mountain Gear has a primer on Cuben fiber which appears to now be different name, DyneemaŽ
http://blog.hyperlitemountaingear.com/dyneema-cuben-fiber-new-name/
I didn't see where they call out what specific fabric weight they use.
Casey & Gina
02-10-2016, 16:09
Hyperlight Mountain Gear has a primer on Cuben fiber which appears to now be different name, DyneemaŽ
http://blog.hyperlitemountaingear.com/dyneema-cuben-fiber-new-name/
I didn't see where they call out what specific fabric weight they use.
Argh, that's confusing, when I think of Dyneema fabric, this is what comes to mind:
http://thru-hiker.com/materials/images/dynX.png
Sometime this year I am going to take the plunge and buy my first cuben tent, probably from ZPacks. Their standard option is for 0.51 weight cuben. But, for a few bucks and a few ounces in weight, you can upgrade to 0.74 cuben.
I know very little about this, but it seems that for a couple of ounces getting the heavier material probably makes sense. Are there any cuben geniuses out there who can comment and make a recommendation? Thanks!
What's "IDEAL" changes from person to person and situation to situation.
If this is your first Dyneema Composite Fabric shelter and making an educated guess about where you are as a hiker I'd say do consider a heavier than .51 CF option in a larger context of variables other than just weight! From my own mistakes, I once prioritized saving wt over everything else with that approach invariably not serving my best needs in the field or my bank account.
IMHO, ZPacks default CF wt of .51 for tarps adopts an evolving UL philosophy that is more in line with a current SUL style. When one states that .51 CF is fine for them I would deeply delve into the details of "them" to understand their situations in light of your own. If one doesn't have a a firm grasp on what light, UL or SUL entail it makes me question many consumer's ZP choices. ZPs evolved their awesome selling Arc series backpacks by tweaking their approach to a more UL backpack style. Note the recent Arc series pack wt increases. ZP still affords customization of a SUL build yourself from the ground up pack option though. Some gram weenies may not like it but Joe Valesco is running a biz and has to take his company in the direction of his targeted markets.
http://hikelighter.com/2015/02/28/zpacks-duplex-tent-2/
Scroll down to Fabrics to read John Abela's take.
For me, as an ULer and sometimes SULer mainly LD hiker, I still went with the .74 CF Hexamid and Altaplex although I do have a minimalist sized SUL .34 CF tarp.. The .34 CF pocket tarp has duct tape on it despite being gently used making the wt of it climb to a heavier CF. Scratch head. Scratch head. MaYbE, I should have went with heavier wt CF from the start? I reasoned even though I'm a gram weenie most of the time cost and durability factored into the fabric wt choice with my average 3000+ trail miles a yr.(I use my gear ALOT, I use/used the Hexamid and Altaplex alot) and variety of on and off trail treks and sometimes more abrasive environments than always on highly maintained trails in established campsites. If I wanted to or could afford new $600 UL/SUL shelters every 18 months or so I would have gone to the .51. Only so many shelters I will afford so I have no regrets. Translucency could be a consideration of the different choices. The greater the wt of CF the more the Dyneema thread count hence greater strength and abrasion and puncture resistance.
I've seen several times .51 CF be damaged with falling pine cones, small sticks, and prickly brush etc creating pin holes or the small stick impaling(puncturing) the fabric. FWIW, I too have seen significant abrasions and little holes in especially the lightest wt CF tarps from animal paws/scratches. I've seen a few times CF tarps punctured through complacent use when removing or putting in tent stakes especially light wt Ti skewer(shepherd hook) stake in the more easily punctured lighter wt CF tarps/shelters. It's why ZP and other CF UL gear companies use heavier CF(CF 1 or more) in ground sheets, innernets, etc that will be in contact with the ground.
I will rarely use a bought CF bathtub floor groundsheet. It gets pinholes in it and they are freakin expensive for little overall gain compared to say a decent 1.1 silny, polycro, or even different varieties of Tyvek. My money is better spent elsewhere even as a UL/sometimes SUL LD hiker. If I had some extra 1 CF lying around not being used I might make one myself though. Likewise, the wt gain for .34 CF stuff sacks used for items like food are simply not cost effective in terms of durability for the small wt gain compared to some only slightly heavier but more durable alternative stuff sacks. I do have one .34 CF stuff sack left I only use for very light wt use like keeping clothes or a sleeping bag dry. Maybe, I'll try more though?
CF used in tarps(tarp like tents) does eventually fray and can be affected by UV radiation especially in the seaming construction. I'm not certain about how this pans out in different wt CF's though. It's one of the reasons cottage UL companies making much CF gear like ZP and HMG went to hybrid CF for backpacks - better durability/more reasonable characteristics. Again, IMHO it would be advisable to consider a wider range of variables in one's personal situations in the choice of fabric wts, colors, etc rather than getting narrowly gram weenie stupid obsessed.
And, although the argument is CF is easily field repaired with duct tape I've seen quite a few .51 CF traps/shelters with enough duct tape on them that it increased the wt of the tarp/shelter to a higher wt CF. It makes me wonder if all that duct tape could have been avoided if this person had gone to a slightly heavier CF to begin?
In the end make your own choices.
Zpacks cuben stuff is good quality.
I am planning on buying a Duplex this year and will probably go with the .74 fabric. My only experience with Cuben is the ZP food bag and bear bag kit. The food bag is made of the 1.4 oz Cuben and seems pretty durable. I don't know what weight fabric they use in the little bag in the bear bag kit but the first time I used it I put a rock in it and it tore a hole in it after throwing it two or three times.
"Argh, that's confusing, when I think of Dyneema fabric, this is what comes to mind:"
That is because most think of Dyneema as a product but it is in fact a brand that happens to sell several products including now the ex Cubic Tech line of products.
poolskaterx
03-17-2016, 20:21
I purchase my Zpacks Soloplus in .51 used with a complete through hike on it; 1 TINY pinhole! Fixed in about 30 seconds with cuben tape. I replaced the guylines that looked hammered and I swear most people would not know the difference between my shelter and a shelter has been used for a week. Man my shelter is light!!!!!!!